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Thread: "Tai"-Jones

  1. #301
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    Dammit. This newly refined frame (in red, no less!) has me Jones-ing again. I'm already considering racing a rigid fork for my next 100 miler. If only I can put together the cash to do the frameset and a 135 front hub before the framesets sell out...

    Los
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  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by sslos View Post
    Dammit. This newly refined frame (in red, no less!) has me Jones-ing again. I'm already considering racing a rigid fork for my next 100 miler. If only I can put together the cash to do the frameset and a 135 front hub before the framesets sell out...

    Los
    Almost makes me wish I would have waited a few more weeks before buying, but it looks like the price jumped a $100 from before.

    There is a pretty sweet Jones/King wheelset in the classifieds. I also have an extra Paul WHUB that's been sitting around. I was going to build up a fat front, but with the Knard tire up front, I'm not sure if I'll need it.

  3. #303
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    I wonder if my frame is part of the latest "lighter" batch. Never got to weigh it as I was too excited to build it up!

  4. #304
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    It looks like it is with those water bottle/mud guard mounts underneath the down tube near the head tube. I'm jealous. I'd like to have the mud guard mounts.

  5. #305
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    Did you all see the latest tease on Jeff's blog? Looks like he's prototyping a bike with something cool going on out back. Anybody got any guesses based on the couple of pics?

    Jones Bikes | Blog
    You're so cute internet tough guy. Noogie...Noogie...Noogie.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    Did you all see the latest tease on Jeff's blog? Looks like he's prototyping a bike with something cool going on out back. Anybody got any guesses based on the couple of pics?

    Jones Bikes | Blog
    knard in rear. Fat 29er.

    Quote Originally Posted by ppfeifer View Post
    It looks like it is with those water bottle/mud guard mounts underneath the down tube near the head tube. I'm jealous. I'd like to have the mud guard mounts.
    I have those on my older model diamond as well.
    Try this: HTFU

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    knard in rear. Fat 29er.
    And just when I thought I was done buying new bikes. Let's see how long it takes to come to market.

    How to explain to the wife that you need to replace your bike with the exact same bike...only different? She's still is looking at me funny over the Rabbit Hole I just had built up.
    You're so cute internet tough guy. Noogie...Noogie...Noogie.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    And just when I thought I was done buying new bikes. Let's see how long it takes to come to market...
    I thought it was just lighter. If the RH/Knard fits in the new frames, I'm going to be a little ticked! Just bought my frame a couple of months ago. Oh, well. I told myself I was going to get a Spaceframe either later this season or next year anyway. Hopefully, Jeff will make those Knardable.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by stremf View Post
    I thought it was just lighter. If the RH/Knard fits in the new frames, I'm going to be a little ticked! Just bought my frame a couple of months ago. Oh, well. I told myself I was going to get a Spaceframe either later this season or next year anyway. Hopefully, Jeff will make those Knardable.
    No no. Jeff is riding a prototype frame. Not the new one, though the new one is said to have a little more room out back I doubt it will fit the Knard. It looks to me like he is working on a frame that will easily fit the RH/Knard out back--and whatever else new wide 29er tires that come along. But it's in the prototype stage. Who knows how long before it will be available to buyers.
    You're so cute internet tough guy. Noogie...Noogie...Noogie.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    No no. Jeff is riding a prototype frame. Not the new one, though the new one is said to have a little more room out back I doubt it will fit the Knard. It looks to me like he is working on a frame that will easily fit the RH/Knard out back--and whatever else new wide 29er tires that come along. But it's in the prototype stage. Who knows how long before it will be available to buyers.
    Ohh, oops! I didn't even check your link, because I assumed it was the 2/15 entry you were talking about. D'oh! Looks like that prototype is a spaceframe? (Judging by the split top tube you can see).

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    And just when I thought I was done buying new bikes. Let's see how long it takes to come to market.

    How to explain to the wife that you need to replace your bike with the exact same bike...only different? She's still is looking at me funny over the Rabbit Hole I just had built up.
    I am lucky and cursed at the same time. My wife doesn't question any of my bike purchases. Compared to the cost of maintaining her aircraft, my bike purchases are a mere blimp on the CC.

    Just looked at the CC - looks like Ramen tonight for dinner .
    Last edited by Tripower; 02-22-2013 at 05:16 AM.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    Anybody got any guesses based on the couple of pics?
    Seems logical to me. Fat 29 is here to stay.

    FWIW, I rode my Knard 29 / Rabbit Hole for the first time today. Up until now I've been riding my Jones diamond frame/truss fork with a Knard 26 / Marge Lite combo. Being a long term 29er guy, my Jones felt very strange with the 26 front. Don't get me wrong, it was really fun but the 29 Knard felt more "natural". It was also significantly more nimble with the Knard 29; even though, the difference in wheel weights is only 500g (approx 1 pound).

    29er - 2550 g
    Knard 29X3 120 tpi
    Surly Rabbit Hole
    Paul WHUB
    DT Comp with alum nips
    Ghetto tubeless with Surly rim strip, 1 wrap of pipe insulation, 1 wrap of duct tape, 24 x 2.3 Q tube and 3 cups of Stans
    SLX 180mm Rotor
    "Tai"-Jones-knard-29-front.jpg

    26er- 3070g
    Knard 26X3.8 120 tpi
    Surly Marge Lite
    Paul WHUB
    DT Comp with alum nips
    Ghetto tubeless with Surly rim strip, 2 wraps of pipe insulation, 2 wraps of duct tape, 20 x 2.3 Q tube and 3 cups of Stans
    "Tai"-Jones-image.jpg

    Comparison of the two set ups:
    -Rolling resistance for the 29 is MUCH less than the 26.
    -The Knard 29's (13 psi tubeless) traction is very good relative to "normal" 29 tires I've ridden; however, it doesn't come close to the grip of the 26 (10 psi tubeless).
    -The 29's shock absorption is also much less than the 26.
    -The 26 fat front really shines in turns and descents. It feels spirited and lively. Climbing is another story altogether. Momentum is everything with the 26. When you attack hills the 26 feels OK, but when you loose momentum you're f*%&ed. In my limited experience, it's very difficult to accelerate up a hill with the 26. I didn't have that feeling with the 29 today. This feeling could be associated to the contact patch of a 29 compared to a 26 OR it could be in my head. Either way, my Jones felt kinda like pushing a wheelbarrow up a hill with my loop bars and 26 front.
    -The 26 has a much more substantial side wall than the 29.
    -The 26 is wearing quicker than normal tires. I think the 29 will too.

    I imagine lots of people are interested in trying both setups, but don't want to spend the $ experimenting. My recommendation after riding both is- I think XC riders will be happier with the 29. I'm not an AM guy so I can't speak for y'all.

    Even though I'll likely ride the 29 version more often, that doesn't mean that my Knard 26 will sit in the corner of my workshop collecting dust. I think the 26 will see many more miles. Then again, I may be trying to make myself feel better about spending a ton of money on a wheel that doesn't really match my style of riding.
    Last edited by ppfeifer; 02-21-2013 at 07:10 PM.

  13. #313
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    ppfeifer, did you have to adjust/add/remove spacers to account for changes in wheel diameter? The Rabbit Hole should have raised your front end a bit. Don't know how that will change the feel of the cockpit and where a rider like handlebar height. I'm making the exact same change to my bike in the next day or two, so I figured I'd ask.
    You're so cute internet tough guy. Noogie...Noogie...Noogie.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    ppfeifer, did you have to adjust/add/remove spacers to account for changes in wheel diameter? The Rabbit Hole should have raised your front end a bit. Don't know how that will change the feel of the cockpit and where a rider like handlebar height. I'm making the exact same change to my bike in the next day or two, so I figured I'd ask.
    Yes, the front end is too high and I need to swap some spacers around. Right now I have a 15mm spacer under the stem. I'll try a 5mm spacer next. IMO, a 10mm (almost 1/2 in) adjustment is a good starting point.

    Hope this helps. Enjoy your new setup.

  15. #315
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    What are your bikes weighing in at? Just swapped a 27TPI Knard (29x3) and added a 2.4 Ardent out back. It WAS at 27lbs before. I think I'm up to 30lbs easy now. She's a hefty sucker. I geared down to 32x21 to compensate for the porky rear tire, too. Hope she feels lighter on the trails.

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by stremf View Post
    What are your bikes weighing in at?.
    Mine hovers between 25-27lbs depending on tire choice. Widest tire I have is a 830g 2.4 Vee Rubber Mission. Narrowest is a 750g 2.35Vee Rubber Flying V. Have a pair of 2.4 RaRas for err...racing.

    Rims are P35s, and running it singlespeed

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by ppfeifer View Post
    I imagine lots of people are interested in trying both setups, but don't want to spend the $ experimenting. My recommendation after riding both is- I think XC riders will be happier with the 29. I'm not an AM guy so I can't speak for y'all.

    Even though I'll likely ride the 29 version more often, that doesn't mean that my Knard 26 will sit in the corner of my workshop collecting dust. I think the 26 will see many more miles. Then again, I may be trying to make myself feel better about spending a ton of money on a wheel that doesn't really match my style of riding.
    I just spent $600+ bucks on a 100mm 26" rim and 3.8 Knard (who's bead I'm not sure it right). So I know what you mean. I think I should have gone the 29+ route with the RH rim, and I'm kicking myself a bit (okay a lot). I do love the grip and cornering confidence of the fat 26 though...
    Last edited by Wish I Were Riding; 02-28-2013 at 06:36 AM.

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by stremf View Post
    What are your bikes weighing in at? Just swapped a 27TPI Knard (29x3) and added a 2.4 Ardent out back. It WAS at 27lbs before. I think I'm up to 30lbs easy now. She's a hefty sucker. I geared down to 32x21 to compensate for the porky rear tire, too. Hope she feels lighter on the trails.
    IME the 27TPI Surly tires roll poorly due to their stiff construction. If you aren't loving it consider swapping in the 120TPI version.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    IME the 27TPI Surly tires roll poorly due to their stiff construction. If you aren't loving it consider swapping in the 120TPI version.
    Yeah, I'm going to see how it does once the trails clear up. When I ordered, the shop didn't have any 120TPI's in, so my choice was by default.

    BTW, rest of my bike set up is P35/Blunt-Paul/Hope F/R, XTR/BB7, Alu Loop Bar, M760 cranks and Surly cog. Haven't had a bike this hefty since the old Monocog 29er days!

  20. #320
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    Mine weighs 30.5 with uma 50mm rims knard 27tpi and an ardent. 1x9 and a dropper post.And it rides really slow and heavy but im ok with that.

  21. #321
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    My fat 29 setup weighs in at 28.1 pounds while my fat 26 weighs 29.4.

  22. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding View Post
    I just spent $600+ bucks on a 100mm 26" rim and 3.8 Knard (who's bead I'm not sure it right). So I know what you mean. I think I should have gone the 29+ route with the RH rim, and I'm kicking myself a bit (okay a lot). I do love the grip and cornering confidence of the fat 26 though...
    I bought my Jones, and it came with a 26 rim only--the Jones sold 50mm rim that is advertised at 660 grams. I bought a Husker Du that weighed 1150 grams. I rode for a year, and kept telling myself I needed the 29er rim. I just bought a Rabbit Hole/Knard. I only have one ride, so impressions are limited. I ride through a lot of root gardens. The real fat tire really inspires confidence with all the camber/directional changes. Plus the stability and slower steering I've come accustomed to. I haven't got confidence in the Knard yet because my conditions are very slippery. BTW, the Knard seems little teeny tiny compared to true fat. My first ride was hesitant. The steering on the RH is definitely faster, and the bike spins up quicker. However, on my local trails, this feature is not a high priority. I'm a slow plodder. A root crawler. Climbs are short and punchy anyways. My bb did come up on the Rabbit Hole, so I'm adjusting to that as well. I may end up prefering my original fat front, but I need to put lots of miles on the RH/Knard before making that decision. I think I agree that if I were climbing long distances, and riding more XC, I'd definitely want the 29er out front. But for my daily riding, the fat-fronted Jones may be ideal. Maybe I'll ride the RH/Knard in the dry season, and the fat front in the wet season. Wish I Were Riding, I'd consider a Husker Du once you need a new tire. I have nothing buy great things to say about it. Light. Good grip. Fast Rolling.

    Oh, and my bike weighed in around 31 pounds with the fat front. Not sure where it's at with the Knard, but I don't think I lost but 200 grams in the switch. I don't know if it's just me, but this bike isn't the kind I'd be concerned about weight with, at least with what I need from the bike. I think this bike has got to weigh what it's going to weigh to do the job you're asking of it. It'll never be light. And getting it down to 25 pounds would make it a very different bike than what I need. Oh, and I'm a fat clyde too, so burly is king.
    You're so cute internet tough guy. Noogie...Noogie...Noogie.

  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by stremf View Post
    Almost makes me wish I would have waited a few more weeks before buying, but it looks like the price jumped a $100 from before.
    And from the blog, "The new steel Diamond frame is 0.4 pounds (about 180 grams lighter) than the older (Merlin made) version."

    I read that as the diamond frame isn't now lighter that the recent Tai frames, just lighter than the pre-Taiwan move design. Has anyone confirmed with Jeff? The DT fender bosses appear on some and not others, my bike hasn't got them but other earlier + newer bikes have.

  24. #324
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    Got my Jones!

    The good news: Jeff finished a month ahead of when he said he would complete my bike.

    The bad news: I'm experiencing a 4 year due cold that has put my ass for the last week. I rode my baby around for 30 minutes on the street and now I am totally wiped out and coughing up all sorts of interesting colored liquids. Fingers crossed I am ready to roll this weekend.

    I've still got to dial in the brakes, saddle (thinking about ditching the Brooks), and tire pressure. I'm sure I'll need a few weeks of real riding to feel natural on the bike. One thing that did surprise me: I went off a curb in front of my house, and the back end came up so much I felt like I was going to fly to the moon. The bike feels incredibly agile, even with the fat tires (which are a real trip to watch while I am riding). The seat really feels, like, in the way. You guys know what I mean? I feel like I can't get low enough on the bike- but I'm just on the street and in a fog of Sinus Typhoon Rage so it could just be my current state of mind.

    Expensive bathroom scale says it weighs 30.4 pounds.

    My favorite color is orange. Jeff did a great job putting it together. I'll update after this weekend.















    Last edited by michaelscott; 03-05-2013 at 08:20 PM.

  25. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    I may end up prefering my original fat front, but I need to put lots of miles on the RH/Knard before making that decision. I think I agree that if I were climbing long distances, and riding more XC, I'd definitely want the 29er out front. But for my daily riding, the fat-fronted Jones may be ideal. Maybe I'll ride the RH/Knard in the dry season, and the fat front in the wet season. Wish I Were Riding, I'd consider a Husker Du once you need a new tire. I have nothing buy great things to say about it. Light. Good grip. Fast Rolling.
    Well keep me posted. I think I probably need the 29+, accept it would be more rigid than I've gotten used to and have less grip in the corners?

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