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Thread: Strava changes

  1. #1
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    Strava changes

    Anyone noticed they stopped posting leader board results for many segments? They say its due to dangerous terain. In my area strava even blocked a 1.1 mile climb... How is a 6 mph ascent dangerous? I personally like Strava as a training tool. Motivation to climb a section faster than before combined with a peer comparison was valuable. A simple map with a route timer is meaningless. In fact there are other aps that are much better if segment data is truly gone.

    I get the dangers of guys riding out of control. Just seems crazy that the aps key feature is disabled due to a few idiots. Haters pile on here...

  2. #2
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    If I never hear anyone yell Strava! again, it won't hurt my feelings. If I do hear it again, I might do the same thing I did last time, situation permitting. I yelled back "up hill traffic" (and I was, they were riding down) and kept going. They were so surprised I didn't yield the trail, they stopped on the low side of the trail, and tried to put their low side foot down as well. They fell over and rolled off the side of the hill about 15 feet....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    If I never hear anyone yell Strava! again, it won't hurt my feelings.
    Wait, you mean you've actually encountered someone who yells "Strava"? WTF is wrong with people I regularly engage in shooting for KOM's, but I always shut it down at the first sight of another person.

    Love the story about ditch dude. Priceless.

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    I don't like this Big Brother/policing/lets-make-the-world-safer stuff going on with Strava.....

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    I am blessed to never have heard an idiot yelling Strava, expecting me to jump out of his way as he races toward glory. It would not go well.
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zephxiii View Post
    I don't like this Big Brother/policing/lets-make-the-world-safer stuff going on with Strava.....
    Tell that to the family that sued Strava when their son died trying for a KOM...

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    Quote Originally Posted by GasX View Post
    Tell that to the family that sued Strava when their son died trying for a KOM...
    Well if that's the case maybe we shouldn't have segments and leaderboards at all, not even private ones since we humans can't be trusted to do anything in a safe manner. **** we may as well not even have bikes anymore, too dangerous. Or even cars..... or even run marathons. WE may as well not do ANYTHING for the sake of what COULD happen.

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    Does this only affect 29ers?
    Just some yahoo on a Wahoo

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    What do you think about a new game, a mt. bike version of Marco Polo where the response to anyone yelling "strava" is "douchebag"? I'd love to try it but I imagine it will seem to rude in real life and I'll just keep my mouth shut. I'll sure be thinking it though.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by GasX View Post
    Tell that to the family that sued Strava when their son died trying for a KOM...
    He died while riding his bike in an out of control manner. Why is Strava liable?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by GasX View Post
    Tell that to the family that sued Strava when their son died trying for a KOM...
    Are you in some way implying that Strava is at fault here?

    It was his choice. No one but he, the user, made it for him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LB412 View Post
    He died while riding his bike in an out of control manner. Why is Strava liable?
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Are you in some way implying that Strava is at fault here?

    It was his choice. No one but he, the user, made it for him.
    They're not... but they still have to spend lots of money defending the charge and lawsuit.

    And, with our jury system inclined to buy a slick lawyer's argument and remove any responsibility for having common sense and looking to the deep pockets to pay, they may wind up shelling out a lot more if it goes to court.

  13. #13
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    I could have sworn that one already got thrown out.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    If I never hear anyone yell Strava! again, it won't hurt my feelings. If I do hear it again, I might do the same thing I did last time, situation permitting. I yelled back "up hill traffic" (and I was, they were riding down) and kept going. They were so surprised I didn't yield the trail, they stopped on the low side of the trail, and tried to put their low side foot down as well. They fell over and rolled off the side of the hill about 15 feet....
    Idiots are everywhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh View Post
    They're not... but they still have to spend lots of money defending the charge and lawsuit.

    And, with our jury system inclined to buy a slick lawyer's argument and remove any responsibility for having common sense and looking to the deep pockets to pay, they may wind up shelling out a lot more if it goes to court.
    Or they pay more due to loss of revenue caused by the decision to reduce/remove the best feature of there product.

  16. #16
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    ^ Hard to lose revenue when most of your users don't pay to use the app.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasp4Air View Post
    I am blessed to never have heard an idiot yelling Strava, expecting me to jump out of his way as he races toward glory. It would not go well.
    I cant say the same as I have heard someone yell STRAVAAAAAA! I'm damaged goods...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by A1an View Post
    Hard to lose revenue when most of your users don't pay to use the app.
    I am sure they are pitching the ap based on the future ability to monitize the user base. This can happen via advertising, data sharing, or fees. A decline in the user base or frequency of usage will result in a lower "value" for the company.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyCapps View Post
    Does this only affect 29ers?
    Yeah, leaderboards still show up for those with 26", so you're ok and free to yell Strava all you want...

    ...j/k.

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    Basically the world is filled with morons who blame everything on everyone else..... I love ripping down segments on the edge of a whipe out..... Isn't that my choice? A app didn't force me to make those decisions so if I die its my fault and that's it... It's just like the commercials putting disclaimers at the end..... if someone try's to backflip there truck...then the world is prolly better off without them .... To much nerf padding on the world...... I saw one of my friends fracture his skull and go into seizures when I was a kid..... He almost lost his life but it taught me a valuable lesson....life is short...accidents happen....be as careful as possible......but don't live scared of everything....

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by LB412 View Post
    I am sure they are pitching the ap based on the future ability to monitize the user base. This can happen via advertising, data sharing, or fees. A decline in the user base or frequency of usage will result in a lower "value" for the company.
    This is, of course, completely based on the assumption that enough of the user base will be as offended as you for something so trivial. The option to randomly and anonymously flag segments has been around since day one, yet they continue to grow. This really is no different.
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    I can see why several of the segments I've seen flagged around here are that way. One is a fairly sharp downhill with a blind corner at the bottom on a 2-way trail. I'm always apprehensive about approaching that one even without knowing some ***hole with strava is flying down it trying to better his time. Another was a road segment with a steep downhill and a stop sign in the middle. I realize that people probably aren't going to come to a complete stop, but again, having someone trying to better their time on that one is stupid.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Njhardrock View Post
    Basically the world is filled with morons who blame everything on everyone else..... I love ripping down segments on the edge of a whipe out..... Isn't that my choice? A app didn't force me to make those decisions so if I die its my fault and that's it... It's just like the commercials putting disclaimers at the end..... if someone try's to backflip there truck...then the world is prolly better off without them .... To much nerf padding on the world...... I saw one of my friends fracture his skull and go into seizures when I was a kid..... He almost lost his life but it taught me a valuable lesson....life is short...accidents happen....be as careful as possible......but don't live scared of everything....
    Grabbing life by the balls and kicking it in the ass is all good - as long as it's done without endangering for others.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by senorjax View Post
    What do you think about a new game, a mt. bike version of Marco Polo where the response to anyone yelling "strava" is "douchebag"? I'd love to try it but I imagine it will seem to rude in real life and I'll just keep my mouth shut. I'll sure be thinking it though.
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    Before I used Strava I would always ride on the edge of my limit and sometimes over. I am a firm believer that if you never crash as a beginner then you aren't going to get any faster or break through any boundaries. After I found Strava I do the same thing. I am actually riding within my limits more now as I am getting a better idea of where that limit is. If I ever see other trail users I have always shut it down in favor of safety.

    So,....again how is Strava a bad thing? It seems to me that jerks were jerks before and after Strava, they just have a new word in their vocabulary.

    If someone was screaming by me while I was climbing up a hill I wouldn't be happy or care whether they were using Strava or not, I would probably push them off the trail as well.

  26. #26
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    Funny, just noticed yesterday they flagged a local DH section but I thought it was an anomaly. Another (faster/rougher) one in the same park is still up.
    Wonder what the criterion is? Speed/grade/degree of turns? I mean, it's in the woods, who's worried about this?

  27. #27
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    I found flagged segment on road ride I frequent. Slight up hill grade, wide bike lane, low traffic and no stop signs or lights on the segment. So I contacted them and said it was a safe segment and they restored it. The only issue was KOM was by some guy motor pacing at like 35 mph.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    I found flagged segment on road ride I frequent. Slight up hill grade, wide bike lane, low traffic and no stop signs or lights on the segment. So I contacted them and said it was a safe segment and they restored it. The only issue was KOM was by some guy motor pacing at like 35 mph.
    Maybe someone had a KOM stolen and they got pissy and flagged it.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    I found flagged segment on road ride I frequent. Slight up hill grade, wide bike lane, low traffic and no stop signs or lights on the segment. So I contacted them and said it was a safe segment and they restored it. The only issue was KOM was by some guy motor pacing at like 35 mph.
    Strava replied to me today. Acknowledged my accusation that any yahoo (and agro hiker) can flag a trail as dangerous and a problem. They claim they are working to refine. We shall see. In the meantime I noticed that other apps have added segments and leaderboards... uh oh.

  30. #30
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    Perhaps they should require multiple, independent sources. At least that way, someone has to create multiple email accounts, and Strava accounts, to get it banned.

    The opinion of one pissed off hiker/biker/runner shouldn't ruin something for everyone.
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  31. #31
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    I suggested a local committee or at least a peer review. As is there are multiple hiking orgs flagging routes as fast as they can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LB412 View Post
    I suggested a local committee or at least a peer review. As is there are multiple hiking orgs flagging routes as fast as they can.
    If you were a hiker you might understand the annoyance with jerk riders pedaling for glory on shared trails expecting you to jump out of their way. I don't think strava create jerks, it just encourages them.
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

  33. #33
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    I like using Strava, it shows me improvements in my fitness and yeah I'll try for some KOMs on some segments on my local trails but I don't go balls to the wall at high traffic times. And I would never not yield when I'm supposed to just to get my best time. I have the luxury of riding weekday morinings when the trails are empty, so that's when I might try some hammering.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by LB412 View Post
    As is there are multiple hiking orgs flagging routes as fast as they can.
    wouldn't be hard for strava to put a cap on the amount you can flag a week/month if segments are being flagged randomly without good reason
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by GasX View Post
    Tell that to the family that sued Strava when their son died trying for a KOM...
    Really dude? The guy died on a road segment where he crossed the double yellow and went head on with a car trying to get his KOM back. BTW he was in his early 40's too, not some young guy that didn't know any better. There are inherent risks in everything we do. Strava did not make him act recklessly, he did it all on his own. Feel bad for the guy because we have ALL made mistakes like this, his was just at the wrong moment. Still doesn't make Strava liable, nor should they be held responsible for policing the public.

  36. #36
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    You can just recreate the segments as soon as they are flagged. The new one will have to be flagged again, but this situation does suck. I also recommended that they have a minimum number of people flag segments. What we have seen in Socal is individuals, not groups. The main one was a MTB'r and NOT a hiker, so don't be careful about assumptions.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    I found flagged segment on road ride I frequent. Slight up hill grade, wide bike lane, low traffic and no stop signs or lights on the segment. So I contacted them and said it was a safe segment and they restored it. The only issue was KOM was by some guy motor pacing at like 35 mph.
    I noticed the same thing by me. A segment was marked as hazardous but there is nothing hazardous about it. Not much of a grade, starts after an intersection and ends before a light. The non-hazardous version starts just a bit later. For the life of me I can't figure out why one is "hazardous" and the other is not..... Maybe like someone said, they wanted to reset the leaderboard, LOL. Some people take this Strava thing way too seriously.........

    If you wanna race, then do a race. If you wanna ride then ride. But racing on a ride is just plain stupid and also counter-productive to disciplined training. It really is amusing how people are going overboard with this Strava thing. Seriously, people yell "Strava" and expect others to get out of the way so they can go after some record?

    There is always someone faster than you, always.....

  38. #38
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    Strava Quiz

    I don't have an opinion on flagging, hikers, poachers, land managers/law enforcement, personal resonsibility, tort, or any of the important issues surrounding Strava.

    But everyone (regardless of their positions) should at least understand what they are fighting over.

    Can you answer the following question:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Strava changes-strava.png  


  39. #39
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    Answer:

    There is no way to know. This can't be said strongly enough. All those times are the same time.

    There is absolutely no way to tell from the information your/my/anyone's GPS device generates. There is no way Strava's software can help. And the error is not solely a matter of device-to-device variation, so if the leaderboard above were all from the very same device (yours), and the times were "Me 4 weeks ago", Me 3 weeks ago", etc., you still wouldn't be able to to tell. It is not a training tool.

    To be only a little hyperbolic, Strava is a random number generator meant to flatter the user. Not that lies can't be motivating... but so much Strava talk misses this point. It's fake.

  40. #40
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    I'd like to keep my training tool. KOMs are not likely in my case but comparing my performance against my peers helps me gauge my improvement over time. Particularly on grueling climbs.

  41. #41
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    Re: Strava changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Snfoilhat View Post
    I don't have an opinion on flagging, hikers, poachers, land managers/law enforcement, personal resonsibility, tort, or any of the important issues surrounding Strava.

    But everyone (regardless of their positions) should at least understand what they are fighting over.

    Can you answer the following question:
    All of them?
    I am immune to your disdain.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by LB412 View Post
    Anyone noticed they stopped posting leader board results for many segments? They say its due to dangerous terain. In my area strava even blocked a 1.1 mile climb... How is a 6 mph ascent dangerous? I personally like Strava as a training tool. Motivation to climb a section faster than before combined with a peer comparison was valuable. A simple map with a route timer is meaningless. In fact there are other aps that are much better if segment data is truly gone.

    I get the dangers of guys riding out of control. Just seems crazy that the aps key feature is disabled due to a few idiots. Haters pile on here...
    The ability to flag segments as dangerous has existed for at least a year. Just create new segments for your favorite training sections. Naturally this "trick" of flagging segments will be used by many annoying people. Just have to out annoy them.

  43. #43
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    I love strava as a training tool, but the people that use it? not so much.
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snfoilhat View Post
    I don't have an opinion on flagging, hikers, poachers, land managers/law enforcement, personal resonsibility, tort, or any of the important issues surrounding Strava.

    But everyone (regardless of their positions) should at least understand what they are fighting over.

    Can you answer the following question:
    Iphone, followed by Andriod then Garmin?

    Strava: Will you record faster segment times with the Android app?
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtdan View Post
    The ability to flag segments as dangerous has existed for at least a year. Just create new segments for your favorite training sections. Naturally this "trick" of flagging segments will be used by many annoying people. Just have to out annoy them.
    Almost all trails in my area have been flagged over the last week. I hear you on seg creation/replacement... Just a pain
    Last edited by LB412; 05-02-2013 at 10:32 PM.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by LB412 View Post
    Almost all trails in my area have been flagged over the last week. I hear you on seg creation/replacement... Just a pain
    That sucks. Is it a place where there are a lot of hikers? It seems like it's local to you because I haven't noticed any increased rate of segments being taken down in my normal riding spots.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtdan View Post
    That sucks. Is it a place where there are a lot of hikers? It seems like it's local to you because I haven't noticed any increased rate of segments being taken down in my normal riding spots.
    More bikers than hikers. Honestly its not very crowded. I'm thinking its one agro person or group that just discovered the flag feature.

  48. #48
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    For those of you that just use Strava as a training tool and don't care about KOM, you can set up private sections. That's what I do, so I can see how I'm progressing over time.

    They won't get flagged as no one else can see them. For those of you that care about positions you'll always be KOM. Down side is you'll also be in last place as well

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    Quote Originally Posted by dereknz View Post
    Thanks for linking to my article. I notice that somebody left a comment on the blog, and I've responded to it.
    Since writing that article, somebody did suggest trying it again with the garmin in a different recording mode - the one where it records a point every second. Apparently this is not the default setting. So, I may try that experiment again using that mode, to see if it's any more/less accurate. My hunch is that we'll still see the same sorts of margin for error. It's probably inevitable until the current commercial GPS system is updated to be as good as the current military GPS systems.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbco1975 View Post
    For those of you that just use Strava as a training tool and don't care about KOM, you can set up private sections. That's what I do, so I can see how I'm progressing over time.

    They won't get flagged as no one else can see them. For those of you that care about positions you'll always be KOM. Down side is you'll also be in last place as well
    I like to see how I compare against my peer group. It's great motivation. kOM is very unlikely for me. I target top 1/3 as my goal. Pushes me on the climbs and ensures descents are made in a controlled manner.

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