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  1. #1
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    Steel Jones Spaceframe

    Jeff has just blogged a Steel Spaceframe - some photos here: http://jonesbikes.com/blog/?p=1308#comment-181

  2. #2
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    Woooho... this means I can finally buy a Jeff

  3. #3
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Interesting.


    I will be curious to hear how much that frame/fork/bar weigh. That's a lot of steel tubing there.

  4. #4
    Plays with tools
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Interesting.


    I will be curious to hear how much that frame/fork/bar weigh. That's a lot of steel tubing there.
    it's a lot of straight gauge steel tubing at that.

    I'm interested in riding one but I really think space frame bikes are a whole lot of hype without any pudding.

  5. #5
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    Looks interesting. Also, check out the bars. Looks like the steerer tube is actaully part of the bars!

  6. #6
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    Finally, someone has figured out how to make a fork and bars out of steel!

  7. #7
    Spooooon!
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj
    Finally, someone has figured out how to make a fork and bars out of steel!
    I've had both for quite some time. Granted they're not of the Jones variety, but steel bars and forks are out there.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hairllama
    I've had both for quite some time. Granted they're not of the Jones variety, but steel bars and forks are out there.
    don't mind him.... that was actually just craigsj's ever-present cynicism and sarcasm.

  9. #9
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    I also question the wisdom behind this project.
    The shape of the Spaceframe was tailored for Ti; replicating it in steel, 1:1, does not make sense.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Climber999
    I also question the wisdom behind this project.
    The shape of the Spaceframe was tailored for Ti; replicating it in steel, 1:1, does not make sense.
    Who says he replicated it 1:1? I'm sure he tailered the bends, tubing diameters and wall thickness for the new material. And obviously he has been testing it for quite some time before even mentioning it on his blog.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by wannabeRacer
    Woooho... this means I can finally buy a Jeff
    Agreed .
    Im also wondering about weight and the affect of swiching material.

  12. #12
    ogarajef@luther.edu
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    The ti version sucks to ride, I am sure adding 4 pounds to the design makes it even more worthless.
    "RIDE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT"

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny
    Who says he replicated it 1:1? I'm sure he tailered the bends, tubing diameters and wall thickness for the new material. And obviously he has been testing it for quite some time before even mentioning it on his blog.
    Don't kid me. You cannot curve butted steel (it will buckle) and curving heavy tubes would not affect their ride properties.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1strongone1
    The ti version sucks to ride, I am sure adding 4 pounds to the design makes it even more worthless.
    Do you have first hand experience? I would love you if could elaborate on the poor ride.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    I will be curious to hear how much that frame/fork/bar weigh. That's a lot of steel tubing there.
    He posted earlier on his blog that the steel truss fork weighs less than a normal unicrown steel fat fork.
    Too many bikes, not enough time.

  16. #16
    Needed Less ~ Did More
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    Climber999, yes you can bend butted tube. Just because you can't does not make it impossible.

    SSP
    "Put any one on one of these singlespeed bikes and they could not help but have fun"
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    Otis Guy talking about klunkers c1976

  17. #17
    ogarajef@luther.edu
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    Quote Originally Posted by Climber999
    Do you have first hand experience? I would love you if could elaborate on the poor ride.
    I have put many miles on one and I don't like it. If you like your handlebars an inch or two above your saddle then it may be ok, for me it feels like I am driving a bus through the singletrack. I really wanted to buy one, at one time, luckily a friend of mine beat me to the punch. Everyone that actually owns one, is going to like it. They are unique and expensive, you are forced to like it.
    "RIDE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT"

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Climber999
    Don't kid me. You cannot curve butted steel (it will buckle) and curving heavy tubes would not affect their ride properties.
    Who is kidding who here? First, I never claimed he was bending butted steel tubing. But then again, why do you think butted tubing can't be bent? Of course it can, it just depends on how much you want to bend it and what the wall thickness is in the butted section. Must of Jeff's bends are pretty big diameter, no sharp bends, so I'm sure it can be done.

    Secondly, bending heavy tubes (which I guarantee is not what Jeff is doing) most certainly will affect their ride properties.

    Here is what I think Jeff has done: Select the proper diameter and wall thickness tubing to give him the leteral stiffness and the vertical compliance he wants. And then he's been testing it all summer to see if it performs like a Jones should. And I guarantee he has a notebook full of comments and changes he will make if he ever sells them.

    Do your homework before posting such nonesense.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny
    Who is kidding who here? First, I never claimed he was bending butted steel tubing. But then again, why do you think butted tubing can't be bent? Of course it can, it just depends on how much you want to bend it and what the wall thickness is in the butted section. Must of Jeff's bends are pretty big diameter, no sharp bends, so I'm sure it can be done.

    Secondly, bending heavy tubes (which I guarantee is not what Jeff is doing) most certainly will affect their ride properties.

    Here is what I think Jeff has done: Select the proper diameter and wall thickness tubing to give him the leteral stiffness and the vertical compliance he wants. And then he's been testing it all summer to see if it performs like a Jones should. And I guarantee he has a notebook full of comments and changes he will make if he ever sells them.

    Do your homework before posting such nonesense.
    Well, one may retort that speculating like you do, is a bit more nonsense than coming up with statements based on research. However, we are all friends here, so I take back my comment about 'kidding me'. An apology is extended.

    That's what I know:
    When I inquire about bending butted tubes with James from Black Sheep he advised against it, pointing out it may not withstand the pressure. He suggested restricting bending to straight gauge tubes. Jones may be immensely more talented than James (which I personally doubt). or as you suggest, it may depend on the nature of the curve.

  20. #20
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    I been thinking about the price and weight also? uhmmm..... I may not be able to afford it and the frame might weight 3kg not including the fork?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Climber999
    Well, one may retort that speculating like you do, is a bit more nonsense than coming up with statements based on research. However, we are all friends here, so I take back my comment about 'kidding me'. An apology is extended.

    That's what I know:
    When I inquire about bending butted tubes with James from Black Sheep he advised against it, pointing out it may not withstand the pressure. He suggested restricting bending to straight gauge tubes. Jones may be immensely more talented than James (which I personally doubt). or as you suggest, it may depend on the nature of the curve.
    You are totally correct, we are both (all?) speculating about this. No apology required, and I hope I didn't offend you with my above comments.

    James is certainly a very talented frame builder and bender of tubing. As a matter of fact, I am riding a custom Ti Black Sheep with LOTS of bends and absolutely love it, bent Ti fork and all! But, if any bike could lure me away from my Black Sheep, it could only be a Jones Ti spaceframe.

    My guess is he is using straight gage tubing of whatever wall thickness he thought up to the task. I know, bold statement there! I'm sure more details will come at some point.

    Mark

  22. #22
    aka baycat
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    Jones needs to team up with Lynskey and we can have curved, twisted steel tubes

    The SpaceHelix in 3d!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Climber999
    Don't kid me. You cannot curve butted steel (it will buckle) and curving heavy tubes would not affect their ride properties.
    when did you start building bikes?

  24. #24
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    Butting is irrelevant

    Just FYI, guys:

    Whether a tube is butted or not is irrelevant to whether it can be successfully/safely bent. Thinner tubing is more difficult to bend than thicker tubing, likewise smaller diameter tubes are easier to bend than larger ones. Small radius is harder than large, since the outside of the bend has to stretch more (and ends up thinner) as the radius decreases.

    Butted steel and ti tubes are typically not bent because the tubing tends to be relatively thin in the center sections, and most main triangle tubes are also pretty large diameter (ie, >1"), meaning that it's very hard to do and end up with something you want to use for a bike frame. In theory, however, it can be done.

    The curved tubes on Jeff's frame are obviously made from ~5/8" straightgauge 4130 or something very similar. There's no butted tubing available in this sort of diameter/length for bikes (or anything else that I know of). Most likely it's .035" or .049" wall. That would be relatively easy to work with and plenty strong. And no, it's probably not light, but if you're after light, you don't do any tube bending anyway - the shortest distance between two points, and all that...

    -Walt

    Quote Originally Posted by Singlespeedpunk
    Climber999, yes you can bend butted tube. Just because you can't does not make it impossible.

    SSP
    Waltworks Custom Bicycles
    Park City, UT USA
    www.waltworks.com
    waltworks.blogspot.com

  25. #25
    Stokeless Asshat
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    Finally, the voice of reason.
    Zip ties? Not on my bike!

    Want:
    650B rims or wheel set. 80's vintage 32 or 36 x 135mm

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