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  1. #1
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    Spearfish w/ RP23 Shock

    We've been asked a lot about running an RP23 shock on the Spearfish....
    Yes you can...easy to install and works great.

    We have actually been asked so much about it I decided to build an RP23 option for the Spearfish frame on our site

    http://www.918xc.com/products/Spearf...P23-Shock.html

    We have also ridden the Spearfish w/ both shocks so if you have comparison questions fire away.....

  2. #2
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    I'm running the Monarch right now and overall I'm pretty impressed with it. What could I gain or lose switching to an RP23?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by D1PHAM
    I'm running the Monarch right now and overall I'm pretty impressed with it. What could I gain or lose switching to an RP23?
    ProPedal and a little more plush ride.... The Monarch is a really nice shock and pedals a bit better than the RP23 w/o ProPedal on. Running the RP23 w/ the ability to run ProPedal would give you the best of both worlds.....

  4. #4
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    I agree the Monarch RT3 does pedal a little better..appears to have some sort of initial platform..but not pro-pedal. It has one platform, and a more true lockout. I will agree the RP23 runs a little bit more plush, but it is definitely noisier than the RT3.

    I think the most important thing about Spearfish and aftermarket shock is getting the proper tune. Not every shock is going to perform as good as it can without the proper tune for the frame. True, the shocks will bolt up, but it doesn't necessarily make it the right one for the application.

    Have you (918XC) done any testing w/ a properly tuned RS RT3 on the Spearfish to see how it changes the way the frame rides?
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  5. #5
    Harmonius Wrench
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    So, isn't there going to be a stock Fox shocked Spearfish from Salsa anyway?

    That said, I don't like the Monarch, and several guys I know all feel the way I do about them. It seems that the air spring pressure has to be set overly high to keep the bike from blowing through the top and middle range of travel. This makes the bike feel "draggy" when hammering in the saddle up long inclines and steeper, in the saddle efforts seem overly hard.

    Of course, going down it isn't an issue.

    Seems that an RP-23 would help fix the issue if the initial spring set up didn't require such high psi to keep the bike from sagging so far into its travel.

    That and you would get ProPedal to help with the climbing, if you like a stiffer feel.

  6. #6
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    I haven't noticed this though I am running a lower amount of sag and do weigh about 125#s in full gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    So, isn't there going to be a stock Fox shocked Spearfish from Salsa anyway?

    That said, I don't like the Monarch, and several guys I know all feel the way I do about them. It seems that the air spring pressure has to be set overly high to keep the bike from blowing through the top and middle range of travel. This makes the bike feel "draggy" when hammering in the saddle up long inclines and steeper, in the saddle efforts seem overly hard.

    Of course, going down it isn't an issue.

    Seems that an RP-23 would help fix the issue if the initial spring set up didn't require such high psi to keep the bike from sagging so far into its travel.

    That and you would get ProPedal to help with the climbing, if you like a stiffer feel.

  7. #7
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    Guitar Ted,

    Just out of curiosity, would you elaborate on which Monarch you are refering to? I am almost 100% sure you are refering to the Monarch 3.3 which is no longer in production, and I am pretty sure the "several guys" you know that feel the same way are refering to that model as well.

    The Monarch 3.3 was replaced in 2010 with the Monarch RT3 which is quite a bit improved. As 918XC stated "it pedals a bit better than the RP23 without pro-pedal on" I am pretty sure his tests were performed with a RS Monarch RT3.

    I don't want to take stabs at people, but products get improved, and still seem to carry a rep as being problematic even after the improvements sort of like the Niner Jet9 frames of the past not being strong or Trek/Fisher Superfly frames being break happy.

    I have tested both the Fox RP23 and the Rockshox RT3 back to back using the same platform (Santa Cruz Tallboy) with both sporting the correct tune for the bike. I agree with 918XC with his assessment because I recognized the same results. The Fox RP23 is plusher, and the RT3 pedals better, but both when setup correctly will use the exact same amount of shock stroke (give or take a mm) on the exact same trails. True statements like "plusher" and "pedals better" are subjective statements just like your statements about "blowing through the top and middle range of travel" or "feeling draggy" when hammering. That is purely subjective, and one could disagree depending on the application.

    It doesn't help anyone when people make generalized statements in terms of a product when their statements aren't referencing the current product on the market and talking about the current product on the market.
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  8. #8
    Harmonius Wrench
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    @dubdryver: I'm talking specifically about the Monarch spec'ed on the Spearfish, and the people I know that have ridden that specific set up.

    I have also heard through the grapevine that the RP-23 "greatly" improves the ride of the Spearfish.

    That said, I have never ridden a Monarch I've liked on any bike they've been on. Not saying it doesn't work for some bikes and some folks, but my experience with that damper has not been as good as the Fox RP-23's I've ridden.

  9. #9
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    Well you are comparing the bottom of the line of the Monarch series "Monarch R" spec'ed on the Spearfish so yah, the RP23 should be better. Its like comparing Shimano Deore LX to SRAM XO.

    I would be willing to bet the RT3 would vastly improve the ride just like the RP23.

    I can assume that every bike that you rode with a Monarch was an older model or low-end.
    The Fox RP23 and the Rockshox Monarch RT3 are comparable on component grade.

    An interesting fact about the Rockshox suspension components: They are showing up on everything that was previously Fox (for the most part). Specialized Futureshox Fork is Rockshox, C'Dale Lefty now have Reba XX internals, C'Dale Scalpels come with a Rockshox RT3s. Yes there are applications where Fox are offered as upgrades, but that is more of a preference thing. Also to the fact that Fox is not being as flexible to sales as SRAM is.

    Also speaking to Push Ind. one on one, they prefer the new Rockshox simply because they are easier to get a custom they are looking for that meet their criteria, and in some applications, they don't even suggest the Fox RP23 because it doesn't match the performance they can get out of the RT3s/RT-AMs. This information came directly from Eric McCullum from Push Ind.
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  10. #10
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Well, this is all well and fine, but the thread is about the Spearfish, and the RP-23 upgrade over the stock Monarch damper. My comments were specific to that.

    The rest may be true, or not, but it doesn't really matter in the scope of this particular discussion.

    That said, it might be fun to try a higher end Monarch to see if it fixes my issues with the Spearfish's ride quality as it stands with the stock damper.

    Quote Originally Posted by dubdryver
    Well you are comparing the bottom of the line of the Monarch series "Monarch R" spec'ed on the Spearfish so yah, the RP23 should be better. Its like comparing Shimano Deore LX to SRAM XO.

    I would be willing to bet the RT3 would vastly improve the ride just like the RP23.

    I can assume that every bike that you rode with a Monarch was an older model or low-end.
    The Fox RP23 and the Rockshox Monarch RT3 are comparable on component grade.

    An interesting fact about the Rockshox suspension components: They are showing up on everything that was previously Fox (for the most part). Specialized Futureshox Fork is Rockshox, C'Dale Lefty now have Reba XX internals, C'Dale Scalpels come with a Rockshox RT3s. Yes there are applications where Fox are offered as upgrades, but that is more of a preference thing. Also to the fact that Fox is not being as flexible to sales as SRAM is.

    Also speaking to Push Ind. one on one, they prefer the new Rockshox simply because they are easier to get a custom they are looking for that meet their criteria, and in some applications, they don't even suggest the Fox RP23 because it doesn't match the performance they can get out of the RT3s/RT-AMs. This information came directly from Eric McCullum from Push Ind.

  11. #11
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    Can we all just get along?

  12. #12
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    I don't have a dog in this hunt but I didn't think anyone got stepped on here. GT just pointed out that this is a Spearfish shock upgrade thread, not a Fox to Rockshox comparison thread.

    Everything seemed friendly enough....
    Wally

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    So, isn't there going to be a stock Fox shocked Spearfish from Salsa anyway? .
    I don't suppose these will be out with the June shipment? That would be cool!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 918XC
    We have actually been asked so much about it I decided to build an RP23 option for the Spearfish frame on our site

    http://www.918xc.com/products/Spearf...P23-Shock.html
    I see what you did there
    But if you close your eyes it becomes so easy to see

  15. #15
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    "...and you get to keep the stock Rock Shox Monarch as a back up."

  16. #16
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    RP23 Install Video

    For anyone interested, we made an RP23 installation video...scroll to the bottom of the page

    http://www.918xc.com/products/Spearf...3-Upgrade.html

  17. #17
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    Monarch RT3

    I came across this thread while looking for info on the Fox RP23 for my Spearfish that is due in Tues. or Wed. of next week. Has any one actually tried the Monarch RT3 on a Spearfish? and if so, what do you think of it? As I mentioned, I don't even have the bike yet, so this is all just speculatory.

    I've been pricing the options and a 2010 RP23 runs about $370, the 2011 RP23 is about $420 (saves 60grams and is supposed to be better all around), the Monarch RT3 is $260ish, or I can get an RT3 from PUSH that has been upgraded for $370.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob12676 View Post
    I came across this thread while looking for info on the Fox RP23 for my Spearfish that is due in Tues. or Wed. of next week. Has any one actually tried the Monarch RT3 on a Spearfish? and if so, what do you think of it? As I mentioned, I don't even have the bike yet, so this is all just speculatory.

    I've been pricing the options and a 2010 RP23 runs about $370, the 2011 RP23 is about $420 (saves 60grams and is supposed to be better all around), the Monarch RT3 is $260ish, or I can get an RT3 from PUSH that has been upgraded for $370.
    I'd say the last choice is a no brainer.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob12676 View Post
    I came across this thread while looking for info on the Fox RP23 for my Spearfish that is due in Tues. or Wed. of next week. Has any one actually tried the Monarch RT3 on a Spearfish? and if so, what do you think of it? As I mentioned, I don't even have the bike yet, so this is all just speculatory.

    I've been pricing the options and a 2010 RP23 runs about $370, the 2011 RP23 is about $420 (saves 60grams and is supposed to be better all around), the Monarch RT3 is $260ish, or I can get an RT3 from PUSH that has been upgraded for $370.
    My Spearfish is equipped with a Monarch RT from Push. I figured the 10 position floodgate of the RT would be as good or better than the 3 position RT3 as I still wanted a set-it and forget solution.

    With the stock Monarch I had trouble achieving both full travel and the firm pedaling response I was looking for. I weigh 185 lbs and tried psi setting on the stock shock all the way from 220 to 180. The top end achieved firm pedaling but I only used about 70% of travel on average rides. The low setting resulting in nearly full travel but the pedaling was not as crisp as I desired.

    With the Push RT, I have it set at 180 and 6 (of 10) on the floodgate and have great pedaling efficiency and still utilize full travel.

    Hope that helps.

  20. #20
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    I don't own a Spearfish... I have a 2011 Santa Cruz TallBoy... Got it with the Fox RP-23 BV... Was way to plush & blowing through the travel... Went with a RS Monarch RT3 from PUSH... Amazing !!! Very Happy No looking back... PUSH is the way to Go Bro !!! The shock does everything PUSH said it would do... Second that... No Brainer !!!
    2011 Santa Cruz TallBoy carbon & 2013 TallBoy LT carbon - S/C All the Time !!!

  21. #21
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    Jomax, did you have to buy a complete RT from push, or did they covert your stock Monarch R?

  22. #22
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    I bought the complete RT from Push, months later and still very happy with the purchase.

  23. #23
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    Does anyone happen to know what tune will work best on a RP23 for the Spearfish?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackflys64 View Post
    Does anyone happen to know what tune will work best on a RP23 for the Spearfish?
    Yes, I also like to know:


    -Velocity Tune ?
    -Rebound Tune ?
    -Boost Valve Tune ?
    or is it better not to have a boost valve?

  25. #25
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    Some answeres:


    -Specs for the FOX shock is Float- AP-S, CTD 6.5 x 1.5, VTL, TL, and BV200psi
    SALSA
    ======
    Hi Harry, the CTD is a specific OE part for our frames, this isnít available for resale, Iíd follow the set up for the RP2 here to tune it for your ride. As for the Fork, we arenít set up to sell direct, so youíll need to locate a Fox retailer and see if they can order that fork for you!

    Good luck
    -Zach
    SALSA
    =====

    Hi , sorry to disappoint you. That shock is tuned specifically for the Spearfish. Does it indicate what the tune is on the stock shock? Also, the CTD is about the nicest shock they make for that size/stroke, short of a Kashima coating. The tune is up to the individual, and no one here can make that decision for you, or shouldnít make for you. There are many variables that only you will know. How much do you weigh? What kind of terrain will you mostly be riding? 2013 stock is set up with an L/L tuned shock. Do you feel like you need a higher rebound? Do you need the rebound to react quicker? If so then you might want a M/M. The choice is yours in deciding what shock/tune you want to go with, just as anyone who buys a frame can choose the drive train components rather than going with our stock SRAM builds.
    =======


    Hi,

    The tune is decided by the bike manufacturer, we recommend starting on a M tune for both Rebound and Velocity. We sell our new shocks with the medium tune as this is a good starting point for most. If you want to know what the best tune is for your bike I would recommend contacting the bike manufacturer.

    Cheers

    Mojo Suspension Hoodoo Ltd.

    ======

    Hi ,

    It won't really make to big a differnce to be honest. As it's a single pivot system the lower the comp the better and if your running high pressures then you'll want a higher rebound tune. The only true way of getting the tune right is to get it PUSHed, this would improve the overall performance and if it's a boost valve version make it heaps more reliable. Hope this helps.

    Oscar @TFT

    =========
    Last edited by FoxyJimmy; 11-03-2012 at 11:32 AM.

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