Small Long travel 29ers?

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  • 11-24-2012
    Jwind
    Custom is more than we want to spend. Especially considering how long (not long) bikes last in Moab.

    Banshee is a good idea except there is no dealer here and I was an owner of one of those V1 rune owners that had problems with their pivots. I know the prime is different, but my experience with that company leaves me wanting to give them a big FU. I'll admit it is a sweet bike. If anything, maybe too much bike for her. I'll admit, it's a nice ride!
  • 11-24-2012
    freighttrain48
    why not the yeti sb95
  • 11-24-2012
    TwoTone
    Have you considered a 650B?

    Also look at an Intense Spider 29 Comp.

    Carbon Fiber, 5 inches travel and small has a TT of 22.5
  • 11-24-2012
    eurospek
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by eurospek View Post
    Transition Covert 29er

    Small 21.2" Medium 22.2"

    :confused:
  • 11-25-2012
    slowrider
    650 b is a good thought
    I'm 5'6" and own a Tracer 29, I recently tested a Tracer 275 and that bike seems so much quicker, even with 1/2 inch more travel and 3 degrees slacker head angle. It would fit better.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Have you considered a 650B?

    Also look at an Intense Spider 29 Comp.

    Carbon Fiber, 5 inches travel and small has a TT of 22.5

  • 11-25-2012
    Silly Man
    1 Attachment(s)
    Numbers can be misleading, try this one out
    I have a Med. Tallboy LTc. I'm 5'5", 28" inseam.

    I ride a 50mm stem, 750mm carbon bar.

    Check the pic.

    I had a small Nomad before. 1" difference in TT and WB.

    Sylvain
  • 11-25-2012
    Jwind
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Silly Man View Post
    I have a Med. Tallboy LTc. I'm 5'5", 28" inseam.

    I ride a 50mm stem, 750mm carbon bar.

    Check the pic.

    I had a small Nomad before. 1" difference in TT and WB.

    Sylvain

    Tallboy LT is pushing it but a possibility. Sadly, the seat tube is too long for her to use her 125mm dropper post wich is a major downer.

    The yeti is a possibility. So is 650b. Scott has a bunch of nice options this coming year.
  • 11-25-2012
    Silly Man
    1 Attachment(s)
    This is our way down next...
    I have a 75mm Specialized Black. Don't need more than that. I hold my own with guys with battle armor and full DH bike. I'm not the fastest but also this is not a DH bike after all.

    So all mountain it is. How much do you really need to lower your seat. Most of the time, I lower mine about 30mm if I have to.

    S
  • 11-25-2012
    Jwind
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Silly Man View Post
    I have a 75mm Specialized Black. Don't need more than that. I hold my own with guys with battle armor and full DH bike. I'm not the fastest but also this is not a DH bike after all.

    So all mountain it is. How much do you really need to lower your seat. Most of the time, I lower mine about 30mm if I have to.

    S

    A specialized black? huh? How much do we lower our saddle in Moab? A lot and often. I have a 125mm KS post. I'm planning on getting the 150mm sometime soon. If I had to choose between disc brakes and a dropper post, I'd choose disc brakes but it would be close ;)
  • 11-25-2012
    Silly Man
    Specialized command post Blacklite. Ridden tons in Moab, including UPS, LPS and Porcupine as a loop from town as well as the Portal trail. Took a group for the Kokopelli from Fruita to Moab. Did become handy on Rose Garden Hill.

    75mm is plenty for me. All I am saying, is don't write yourself out of a great bike before you look at ALL the variables.

    Good luck!
  • 11-25-2012
    mikesee
    I've ridden the Rumblefish a bit and it ain't a bad bike. No big manufacturer is making anything ~better for "Moab XC".

    But if you start looking at the smaller builders, you can probably improve on the geo of the 'fish pretty easily.

    A few pics here of The Missus on some of your backyard trails last week.
    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Uyx82Qn483vx1e2O3kcqIxltJjMXiDiNlir3tmyGpnU?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-uG4T5Ss1zJ4/ULL_4eS0LTI/AAAAAAAAhc4/h5Mpmkxx7I8/s800/IMG_8281.jpg" height="537" width="800" /></a>

    She's riding a size small LenzSport Mammoth.
    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/q21jFsICYvbsgvIJoIgBYxltJjMXiDiNlir3tmyGpnU?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-24ez-pYD5p0/ULL_0VSXwxI/AAAAAAAAhcY/7I7yyeCvZ_E/s800/IMG_7798.jpg" height="455" width="800" /></a>

    She's fairly short-legged, and a KS 75mm post is slammed (all the way into the frame) to give her *just* the right amount of post extension. Whether your SO can get a 4" or 5" drop post to work on this frame depends a lot on her leg length and a little on which saddle she prefers.
    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/SWod4Q6cgWQqEdw5H1bpkBltJjMXiDiNlir3tmyGpnU?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-NskVVXxKSh4/ULL_3d85bmI/AAAAAAAAhcw/ax1uPnfGYVc/s800/IMG_8191.jpg" height="537" width="800" /></a>

    Pretty sure hers is the first S Mammoth in existence. But I saw a few more in stock at my local (GJ, CO) LBS last week. Which means if you were in the neighborhood (Sam's run?) you could swing a leg over and kick the tires at least.
    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/j-HzAS7HZyDpeudwo_kscBltJjMXiDiNlir3tmyGpnU?feat=emb edwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-n1D1X5FSmUQ/ULL_zaIKlKI/AAAAAAAAhcQ/DxlHHvOTl0k/s800/IMG_7739.jpg" height="537" width="800" /></a>

    My SO is coming off of a 3" travel bike, and hasn't completely embraced the concept of the on-the-fly changes in geo that happen when you double the travel and start riding more aggressively.
    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Vkh_U4-TlXxDO3ue7K1NkRltJjMXiDiNlir3tmyGpnU?feat=embedweb site"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_3zabhUFiVo/ULL_1IXSDYI/AAAAAAAAhcg/D3nsnWxi72U/s800/IMG_8031.jpg" height="537" width="800" /></a>

    But riding in your backyard is helping that process along quickly.
    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ZGT2x3nIjew9uR-osF0hYBltJjMXiDiNlir3tmyGpnU?feat=embedwebsite"><i mg src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6WS9DywcpJ4/ULL_2d5XGnI/AAAAAAAAhco/lH_8bCSbgDI/s800/IMG_8089.jpg" height="537" width="800" /></a>

    I only have the one bike/frame here to measure, but I'm happy to answer questions if this one makes your 'must look deeper' list.

    MC
  • 11-26-2012
    Jwind
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Silly Man View Post
    Specialized command post Blacklite. Ridden tons in Moab, including UPS, LPS and Porcupine as a loop from town as well as the Portal trail. Took a group for the Kokopelli from Fruita to Moab. Did become handy on Rose Garden Hill.

    75mm is plenty for me. All I am saying, is don't write yourself out of a great bike before you look at ALL the variables.

    Good luck!

    I'm still confused. I'm looking for a bike, not a dropper post :confused:

    @mikesee thanks for heads up on the lenz. Have to take a closer look.
  • 11-26-2012
    Walt
    Front center
    Ett does not mean much for longer travel, slack ht bikes. Try to figure out what front center she needs and go from there.

    Fwiw given the requirements I would look at smaller wheels. I think you are losing more than you're gaining with 29" wheels in this case.

    Walt
  • 11-26-2012
    JACKL
    Edited - I realized after I posted that the Motobecane is 100mm rear travel.

    Medium GT Sensor 9r is 22.73. 120 travel, 69.5 HTA.

    http://www.gtbicycles.com/media/uplo...%202013(1).pdf
    Sensor 9R Expert - Trail - Mountain - Bikes - 2013

    Good luck in your search.
  • 11-26-2012
    Jwind
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Ett does not mean much for longer travel, slack ht bikes. Try to figure out what front center she needs and go from there.

    Why not? Where talking about reach here. Too long and you're stretched out. which sucks for an all mountainy type stuff.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Fwiw given the requirements I would look at smaller wheels. I think you are losing more than you're gaining with 29" wheels in this case.
    Walt

    She like the big wheels. Feels they ride better in the chunk and rides more on them. That's all that counts IMO.
  • 11-26-2012
    jncarpenter
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jwind View Post
    Why not? Where talking about reach here. Too long and you're stretched out. which sucks for an all mountainy type stuff.

    My thought as well. Reach is a far more valuable metric than FC...imho.

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  • 11-27-2012
    LyNx
    I'd have to agree with JNC and the others who go by Reach. Although this is fairly new to me, it has worked out quite well in moving from the Paradox to the Prime. Reach on the Paradox was 446mm and on the Prime 472mm for the XL frames and I've settled on a 70mm stem for the Prime over 90mm for the Paradox, although I tried a 60mm, but felt it a tad too short - this goes to my thoughts that maybe a 65mm would be just perfect and would put the 2 frames within 1mm total reach.

    Jwind, I know some got left with a bad taste over the bushing issue, but don't let that dissuade you from looking at the Prime, it's a great bike - the ETT for the M is 22.8", reach 411mm, ST 17.5", which falls within your parameters. As to it being too much bike for your wife, not a chance, not if Moab and that sort of riding is your thing. If I remember it right, didn't you move her from an older bike to a nicer FS a couple years ago and it really boosted her confidence and riding? If that's you, then most assuredly the Prime would do that again - it most certainly did that for me.

    Fixed that for you, travel is 130mm not 140mm, but most run a 140mm fork on them as that's what they're designed around, well actual 546mm A2C.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dubdryver View Post
    Also, the Banshee Prime (130mm travel) medium has a 22.8" TT. This coupled with a short stem, zero post, and some bars that have a decent sweep may be the ticket.
    Banshee Prime: All Mountain

  • 11-27-2012
    evasive
    Crossed wires
    I read that as Walt arguing against using ETT for fit, because that's the measurement that Jwind started the thread with. When Jwind responded with "we're talking about reach here" I wasn't sure whether he meant "reach" specifically as the reach/stack bike measurement, or just as a degree of how stretched out the cockpit fit is, since I don't think reach measurements have been mentioned yet in this thread - apologies if I'm wrong about that.

    I haven't spent much time wrapping my head around front center, although I understand it's the shortest distance between the BB and the front hub. That makes it fork dependent, obviously. Like JNC and LyNx, (and Walt) I agree that ETT isn't that useful for predicting how a bike in this class will fit. Reach is the first number I look at now.
  • 11-27-2012
    Enel
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    I haven't spent much time wrapping my head around front center, although I understand it's the shortest distance between the BB and the front hub. That makes it fork dependent, obviously. Like JNC and LyNx, (and Walt) I agree that ETT isn't that useful for predicting how a bike in this class will fit. Reach is the first number I look at now.

    Front center is most useful when comparing between two of the same type of bikes. It varies wildly, however with different front ends.

    I had a short travel hardtail, mid travel FS bike, and rigid all set up with nearly identical reach: when measuring front center it varied by three to four inches. The FS bike had by far the shortest ETT, but the longest reach and by far the longest FC.

    Long story short: use reach to get your cockpit sizing. After that, compare the geometry on similar class bikes with close to the same reach to pick the one you prefer. By similar, I mean same configuration and travel, otherwise the comparison is pretty worthless.
  • 11-27-2012
    Jwind
    The distance from center of seatpost to center of headtube. Call it whatever you want. I'm no bike builder, but that's the measurement the ride is responsible for spanning with their body. And yes, I know, from there the stem length will add distance, but that's flexible. The former is not.
  • 11-27-2012
    Enel
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jwind View Post
    The distance from center of seatpost to center of headtube. Call it whatever you want. I'm no bike builder, but that's the measurement the ride is responsible for spanning with their body. And yes, I know, from there the stem length will add distance, but that's flexible. The former is not.

    Only when seated. Reach is the distance (horizontal, center of BB to center of HT) you span when standing. Both are important, but at different times.
  • 11-27-2012
    evasive
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jwind View Post
    The distance from center of seatpost to center of headtube. Call it whatever you want. I'm no bike builder, but that's the measurement the ride is responsible for spanning with their body. And yes, I know, from there the stem length will add distance, but that's flexible. The former is not.

    That's the ETT. But it's dependent on the seat tube angle, and what a number of us are getting at is that reach is a better measurement to consider with modern frame design. My hardtail has an ETT 0.5" longer than my FS bike, but the FS bike has a longer feeling cockpit; the reach is longer. In that case, the ETT doesn't do a very good job of predicting how the bike fits me.

    This illustration is pretty good for showing the difference between reach and ETT.

    http://bikegeo.muha.cc/geo.gif
  • 11-27-2012
    LyNx
    Actually Jwind, that measurement is not a good one to use if moving from one frame intended for say XC to another more Trail/AM oriented as the angles will change and that doesn't take that into account. If on say her current bike the STA was 74* and then she's looking at a bike with a 72* STA, going by ETT she would end up with a smaller cockpit because she would have to run her saddle further forward on the rails to end up in the same position relative to the BB as on her previous bike and therfor would have to run a longer stem and/or wider bar.

    - ETT is just a horizontal measurement, it does not take into consideration where your saddle is relative to the BB and that is something that should be permanent as you don't want to be changing how far behind the BB you sit to make the bike fit, that's what stem length changes are for.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jwind View Post
    The distance from center of seatpost to center of headtube. Call it whatever you want. I'm no bike builder, but that's the measurement the ride is responsible for spanning with their body. And yes, I know, from there the stem length will add distance, but that's flexible. The former is not.

  • 11-29-2012
    LB412
    Off topic...

    Im 5'10 and trying to decide between a M or L TB LTc. Shop is pushing a M with a slightly longer stem and a saddle adjust. I rode a friends M on a 5 mile trail and it felt a bit cramped when climbing. Though this was without any adjustments. Also, I use flat pedals and couldn't shake the feeling that my feet would contact the front wheel on aggressive turns. Not sure if the latter would change much with a 1" size increase. I am also new to 29s so this could be the norm and something that goes away with more time on the bike.

    Thanks in advance for the input
  • 11-29-2012
    mattnmtns
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LB412 View Post
    Off topic...

    Im 5'10 and trying to decide between a M or L TB LTc. Shop is pushing a M with a slightly longer stem and a saddle adjust. I rode a friends M on a 5 mile trail and it felt a bit cramped when climbing. Though this was without any adjustments. Also, I use flat pedals and couldn't shake the feeling that my feet would contact the front wheel on aggressive turns. Not sure if the latter would change much with a 1" size increase. I am also new to 29s so this could be the norm and something that goes away with more time on the bike.

    Thanks in advance for the input

    I'm 5'10" and ride a M TB. Kind of right on the cusp of the M and L. In the end I went with the M with a 100mm stem. Just felt better to me. FWIW that is what the shop owner was pushing as well. He is 5'10" and he said thats what he would ride. I know the TB Lt is slightly different geometry but its a little bit larger so I would say the same pretty much applies. I also ride flats, you think the tire is close but I have never had an issue. I'd have to have my feet near the heels to actually hit.