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  1. #101
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    It's strange Pivot doesn't at least keep their builds updated. No GX Eagle available.

    I'm sort of in the same boat as you. With my bike requirements.

    I've been riding a 24lb hard tail 29er for 10 years now and I'm looking for a new bike.

    I go up to colorado once a year to ride and mostly ride locally on flat boring trails. Something like a mayhem just seems wrong.

    Looking more at like a Blur, Sniper, etc. Although the Turner Czar looks interesting. It's got slightly older geo but I'm riding incredibly old geo right now anyways.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by givemefive View Post
    It's strange Pivot doesn't at least keep their builds updated. No GX Eagle available.
    Pivot doesn't do "year models" on their bikes. They update the bike when they think there's something to be gained. Sometimes that means they do a new build kit for a bike, but if the bike is a little long in the tooth, and they have something in the works for it, the build kits might be a little stale. Probably means you're about to see a full bike update on that model.

  3. #103
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    Unless you are riding in the mountains, I would argue there is no need for eagle GX

    Its just a heavy waste of space vs a comparable GX or x01 11 speed.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by StumpyandhisBike View Post
    I'm short at 5'6" and went from a '16 size small Riot to a '17 size medium because I too feel like they fit just a bit weird. Love the bike but I could never get totally comfortable on the small. Not enough time on the medium to say that it has solved that unease.

    But honestly, I see this everywhere, shouldn't we all question how the heck does a measurement from the bottom of our feet to the top of our heads has anything to do with how we fit on a bike?

    I had a discussion about this with a couple of friends at a bike club fund raiser over this winter. Of the three of us, I'm the shortest in height. Others are 5'8" and 5'10". But when we all extend our hands straight up in the air, my finger tips are higher than both of theirs. My arms are just longer. We all currently ride size medium bikes.

    I guess I'm saying that I wish fit wasn't be generalized by height. IMO, hip height, shoulder height and arm length play a much bigger role than we give them credit for.

    To the OP. I also love the Riot (bought two) and should definitely be a consideration for you.
    Yeah, bike fit should take a lot consideration, and have better recommendations. I'm your height with short arms. The small works for me with a set back post... but when the new one comes out I'll get a medium. If I were to get a Gorrilla Gravity Bike they would need to make a XS thought.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJSnoozer View Post
    Unless you are riding in the mountains, I would argue there is no need for eagle GX

    Its just a heavy waste of space vs a comparable GX or x01 11 speed.
    The Eagle is nice if you want solid range in gears and never mess around with it.

    However A good 1x11 in X01 or XX1 is actually lighter and works just as well. If you want to race and don't mind some prep then 1x11 in my opinion is darn good. You may have change the chain rings to optimize the low end climbing gear vs top end speed gear for a particular race, but you do save weight in the process. I have raced 1x11 with 28t and 34t chainrings depening on the course. My new Epic I installed a 1x11 XX1 drivetrain for the purpose of light weight. I currently run 28t chaining with the 10-42, but I also have the 34t and also a 30t. I know where I spin out the 28t at speed and if I plan the course I can pick the right chain ring for job. More work than with an Eagle, but also lighter cassette.
    Joe
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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by bank5 View Post
    Most of the trails by me are tight twisty XC trails with rolling hills. So I'd like a bike that is "nimble" and pedals well, especially out of the saddle. But there's some more technical stuff with tough climbs, jump lines, plenty of rocks, some fun short downhill runs all of which I tend to prefer. It seems like the trend is for bikes to get bigger in terms of travel, but any recommendations for short travel (120mm or less) 29er with progressive geometry - 68 or slacker HTA, short chainstay and wheelbase, can fit wide rims with 2.4s.

    The other option is to own two separate bikes (trail and XC) but I find that it takes some time switching between bikes and having full confidence in each one.
    I just bought the Banshee Phantom and holy smokes, this thing rocks. It's got 100mm of travel in back and 130mm up front. It's 32lbs but in a burly way, not in a cheap way. The weight isn't really a big deal though because it's all in the frame, not in rotating mass. It climbs like a goat on meth and descends like a scolded dog. A few times though, I got a little over my head because I don't think that the Continental X King that came with the bike is up for front wheel duties. A Maxxis DHF should fix that problem.
    After being off the bike for awhile, I'm outta shape and trying to get back into my all day epic shape.
    Yesterday I took the Phantom out on its maiden voyage just to get all the settings right so I wasn't it hammering. And I still got 15 achievements on Strava. 5 of which were PR. These were all trails I've ridden many times when I was in better shape.
    I was also looking at the Intense Sniper which is considerably lighter but for what I payed for the entire Phantom, I could only buy the Sniper frame. Plus in a medium, the Sniper is a full inch longer which I felt was too long for all day rides.
    .

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    The Eagle is nice if you want solid range in gears and never mess around with it.
    Why would you say that? Everything I'm reading on here is that Eagle is even more finicky about setup.
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  8. #108
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    Niner Jet 9.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Why would you say that? Everything I'm reading on here is that Eagle is even more finicky about setup.
    Did you read the rest of my post? Or just the first line? If not please read the rest of it and then think about it.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  10. #110
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    Well yeah, the same thing could be said for road bikes, ie no hills why have a wide range.

    I just got my first Eagle equipped bike, was running GX 11sp with 11-46 Sunrace cassettes, 26t ovals. These worked fine, no complaints, derailleur took lots of hits, even bent a couple cogs, and they kept on ticking.

    Eagle gives me one more gear step, which is usable for me cuz I climb a lot and much of the climbing is steep and sustained.

    That said, I do find Eagle to be a bit finicky, no matter how much I tweak the shifting there is always one gear that is slow to shift. New bike, no alignment issues, no crashes yet, I think it's just how it is when you pack a lot of gears into a small space.

    There's nothing wrong with a 10sp either, all my kids ride my oldish extended range 10sp rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by FJSnoozer View Post
    Unless you are riding in the mountains, I would argue there is no need for eagle GX

    Its just a heavy waste of space vs a comparable GX or x01 11 speed.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Well yeah, the same thing could be said for road bikes, ie no hills why have a wide range.

    I just got my first Eagle equipped bike, was running GX 11sp with 11-46 Sunrace cassettes, 26t ovals. These worked fine, no complaints, derailleur took lots of hits, even bent a couple cogs, and they kept on ticking.

    Eagle gives me one more gear step, which is usable for me cuz I climb a lot and much of the climbing is steep and sustained.

    That said, I do find Eagle to be a bit finicky, no matter how much I tweak the shifting there is always one gear that is slow to shift. New bike, no alignment issues, no crashes yet, I think it's just how it is when you pack a lot of gears into a small space.

    There's nothing wrong with a 10sp either, all my kids ride my oldish extended range 10sp rigs.
    I've found the derailleur hanger needs to be near perfectly aligned on the Eagle. I make sure alignment is within about a millimeter relative to the rim.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    Going back to the original post.

    "Most of my trails are tight twist XC trails" - To me this sounds like you need an XC bike.

    "Like bike that is nimble and pedals well out of the saddle" - To me this sounds like you need and XC bike.

    "But ... more technical stuff with tough climbs, jump lines, rocks.." - Ok this a little different, but depending how rocky and how tough modern XC bikes can do this better than XC bikes of a few years ago.

    "It seems like the trend is for bikes to get bigger in terms of travel.." - This where I am seeing the idea of following trends and marketing.

    "short travel (120mm or less) 29er with progressive geometry - 68 or slacker HTA, short chainstay and wheelbase, can fit wide rims with 2.4s." - There are "XC" bikes that fit this. And 2.4's... It is pretty easy to get 2.4 or even 2.6 on the front. Rears get more of a challenge, but even most XC bikes can fit at least 2.3 and some 2.4. Do you need 2.4 on the back? Maybe may be not. Why do you think you need 2.4s? I run 2.6 on 35mm internal wheels on my Santa Cruz 5010 because I want bigger tires for better roll over. I bought the bike used and the 27.5 lacked the roll over of 29. Too late to swap out for 29" wheels so I have tried 2.6. Seems to work pretty good for what I want from the bike. My 29er XC bikes run 2.2 rear and 2.35 front over rocky terrain, tough climbs and I feel they are fine. Love 2.35 front and don't really want the weight of the 2.4 in the back. The XR3 I run in the back is 2.2 and the 2.4 is really seems bigger than want I need. Even so I believe the 2.4 will fit in the back of my 2018 Epic if I want to do it.

    So going back again to the idea of what you want vs what you think you want. If you have not tested one the latest crop of 100mm rear travel XC bikes you might be surprised what they can do. It sure seems like they are worth a demo ride especially if 75% of the riding you will do is twisty XC trails and 25% is "rowdy" and you want to do it on one bike. I have a feeling that most of the bikes listed here can "get rowdy" but maybe a bit of dog on what you ride most of the time.

    Then again maybe I am wrong. One big reason I have 3 bikes is some bikes are no fun on certain terrain where as others are a blast. However If I had to have just one bike my 2018 Epic FS would in fact do all of what I want pretty well although I might install a dropper post for select rides just for more margin.
    We obviously aren't on the same page. With others, I can just say "rowdy" and pretty sure they know what I mean but I need to explain it a lot more with you. Basically I'm getting bored by the XC sit and spin types trails by me and want a bike that does well with the more fun AM stuff.

    I wouldn't rule out XC bikes (I already own one), but my original thought is that this would be my main 1 quiver bike. And I would want to maximize the fun of going down over focussing on speed from point A to point B.

    Now without knowing me, you seem to have the strongest opinion about what I think I need, where as others make recommendations based on what they enjoy. You also seem to think I'm getting caught up in marketing, but my point was the opposite.

    I have ridden an Epic and is fun and a great bike. I would never install a dropper just for select rides. Speaking of droppers, I would definitely want one. Ok, now you can tell me why I just think I NEED one

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Why would you say that? Everything I'm reading on here is that Eagle is even more finicky about setup.
    For me, GX Eagle has been much less finicky than GX11. It has been very trouble free.

  14. #114
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    What do people think of the new Stumpjumper ST? 120mm put back. Could be a fun bike.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by bank5 View Post
    Now without knowing me, you seem to have the strongest opinion about what I think I need, where as others make recommendations based on what they enjoy. You also seem to think I'm getting caught up in marketing, but my point was the opposite.
    There's a group of guys here that this is pretty much their M.O. anytime someone asks for advice. They can't imagine anyone needing more travel than they do, even though most can't jump or hit a drop over a couple feet. You have to figure how much bike you want.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by bank5 View Post
    We obviously aren't on the same page. With others, I can just say "rowdy" and pretty sure they know what I mean but I need to explain it a lot more with you. Basically I'm getting bored by the XC sit and spin types trails by me and want a bike that does well with the more fun AM stuff.
    If you want to ride AM stuff then go get an AM bike. If you want to have more fun on the same old tired trails you always do go singlespeed.

    One way to make "easy" trails harder is to "under bike". There is a place I ride that pretty smooth, but has fun turns and some good climbs. I love it on my singlespeed since it presents a new challenge to do without gears. On my 5" FS bike that place is boring as snot. The trail is just too easy to make it fun. That bike needs rocks and chunk and some white knuckle moments. Of course if all you want to ride is big chunk and white knuckle trails then get bike to suit. Bronson, Hightower, Switchblade, Stumpjumper, Yeti 5.5...

    I am having issues because I can't seem to figure out what you want.
    Joe
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  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    I am having issues because I can't seem to figure out what you want.
    (Snipped out the novella youíve already posted several times)

    Then, please, be a grown-arse man and let the grown-arse OP figure it out. Youíre clearly on different pages. Stop trying to beat the dude over the head with your opinions. Jesus ...
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  18. #118
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    I want the thing that does the thing.

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    So true, but it is kinda funny when these folks pop up, make their pitch for less is more.

    I don't think there is any one answer, for me I'd like one of everything, just imagine a full suspension single speed or a multi geared unicycle, these are some real options.

    I was fully down for getting a Ripmo, but went sideways and got a Full Stache. The Full Stache is nothing like a Ripmo, much less refined, waay heavier, but I love it; at least for a few months

    I think demos are a great way to get a feel for a bike, and they are often free and kinda fun.

    I think Joe needs to man up and get a unicycle, singlespeed bikes dumb down the trail.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    There's a group of guys here that this is pretty much their M.O. anytime someone asks for advice. They can't imagine anyone needing more travel than they do, even though most can't jump or hit a drop over a couple feet. You have to figure how much bike you want.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    If you want to ride AM stuff then go get an AM bike. If you want to have more fun on the same old tired trails you always do go singlespeed.

    One way to make "easy" trails harder is to "under bike". There is a place I ride that pretty smooth, but has fun turns and some good climbs. I love it on my singlespeed since it presents a new challenge to do without gears. On my 5" FS bike that place is boring as snot. The trail is just too easy to make it fun. That bike needs rocks and chunk and some white knuckle moments. Of course if all you want to ride is big chunk and white knuckle trails then get bike to suit. Bronson, Hightower, Switchblade, Stumpjumper, Yeti 5.5...

    I am having issues because I can't seem to figure out what you want.
    I have a SS XC bike already and I road that exclusively for a while. I'm finding XC trails more boring regardless of bike as I'm getting more into getting air and really having to pick line choice.

    I also have unicycles, so you can suggest that next if you want

    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    I am having issues because I can't seem to figure out what you want.
    Then you could stop responding. Others have already helped me a bunch so I'm all set for now. I have a list of bikes I'm hoping to demo soon. I don't NEED any of these bikes as you kept on alluding to. I just think they could make what I enjoy riding more fun

  21. #121
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    Thatís the way to do it...be sure to circle back and let us know what you settle on and why. Good luck!
    I know what it's like to be dead. "To Die & Live In LA."

  22. #122
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    can't argue with demoing bikes. Always good to ride and see for yourself.
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  23. #123
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    I might have missed it, but the Yeti 4.5 seems like a good fit for the original requirements. It's great pedaling platform and really fun going down. If it had a way to mount a bash guard, I'd own one. However, it might be getting a refresh soon since it seems like it should be next in line now that the SB100 is out.

    And as for who should ride what. To me it's like other people's relationships. I stay out of it. You never know all the details about what works for other people. Ride. Have fun. Stay out of the hospital.

  24. #124
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    Iíve owned quite a few of the bikes listed (4.5C, Following, Riot, Hightower, ad nauseum). From the short travel perspective, the only two Iíd personally own again would be the Phantom and the 429 Trail.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Iíve owned quite a few of the bikes listed (4.5C, Following, Riot, Hightower, ad nauseum). From the short travel perspective, the only two Iíd personally own again would be the Phantom and the 429 Trail.
    My buddy just picked up a 429T and was stoked after his demo. He demo'd a 4.5 too, so he obviously felt that the 429 was better as well.

    What did you like better about the 429 than the 4.5 or Following. Seems like the 429, 4.5 and Ibis Ripley are all similar numbers, so any preference would have to be in the little details right?

  26. #126
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    Although an older molder xc bike, my 2014 Zaskar 100 carbon 9r does everything I ask of it from trail to mellow dh. Its got 100 mil rear and 120 mil front. The frame is still very light at 5.5 lbs. and the HA is right at 68 deg with the Marvel Pro fork. Mounted a very basic X-fusion RLX rear shock with an added RWC shock eye needle bearing setup....added stiffness a bonus! The rear suspension design works and really isolates pedal feedback to keep the chain firm at all times. It does the job and holds its own with even the newer, slacker, longer breed of xc bikes out now.
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    Short travel 29ers that can get rowdy-img_1379.jpg  

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  27. #127
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    Short travel rowdy bikes are a lot of fun. They seem to be bike that is fun to ride on the biggest variety of trails. I call them vacation bikes. If I am headed on the road for four weeks of riding I want a bike that is fun to ride on any trail net-work.

    Although it is possible to turn an XC bike into an aggressive trail bike, I would avoid going that route. Any frame set that sits around that 2000gram mark with shock has limits to what it can take. When looking at frames, look for something in that 2500 gram range, not saying that heavier is stronger but generally that rule does hold.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrallen View Post
    What did you like better about the 429 than the 4.5 or Following. Seems like the 429, 4.5 and Ibis Ripley are all similar numbers, so any preference would have to be in the little details right?
    I'm 180 before gear and ride in Phoenix. Both the Yeti and Evil are gorgeous bicycles. The Following has terrible suspension in the sort of extremely rocky tech I ride in and the slack seat angle had my center of mass over the rear hub.

    The Yeti was an incredible climber and beautiful. Very waggly rear end, choppy suspension and just felt fragile. Not good in this environment.

    The 429T geo is a little wonky, but it really is a great all-rounder that pedals well and is a fun descender.

    The Banshee Phantom, though, is a complete beast. Heavy, decent pedaler but not crisp, itís a war machine even in ridiculous gnar. Really, really love that bike.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    I'm 180 before gear and ride in Phoenix. Both the Yeti and Evil are gorgeous bicycles. The Following has terrible suspension in the sort of extremely rocky tech I ride in and the slack seat angle had my center of mass over the rear hub.

    The Yeti was an incredible climber and beautiful. Very waggly rear end, choppy suspension and just felt fragile. Not good in this environment.

    The 429T geo is a little wonky, but it really is a great all-rounder that pedals well and is a fun descender.

    The Banshee Phantom, though, is a complete beast. Heavy, decent pedaler but not crisp, itís a war machine even in ridiculous gnar. Really, really love that bike.
    I wanted to love the Following and agree with what you are saying...but In 80% of NC it's one of the ideal bikes for the OP. NC has a lot of flow that has some chunky spots and can get really fast. Pisgha is different and I feel it gets overwhelmed. But the Following is one of the few 120mm bikes that I've tried that can handle decent drops and air and does it better than a LS.
    Just don't drop into a rock garden or fly down rocky trails.

  30. #130
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    How about "just about any xc bike fitted with a Fox 34 @ 120 mms" for a very short answer?!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    I wanted to love the Following and agree with what you are saying...but In 80% of NC it's one of the ideal bikes for the OP. NC has a lot of flow that has some chunky spots and can get really fast. Pisgha is different and I feel it gets overwhelmed. But the Following is one of the few 120mm bikes that I've tried that can handle decent drops and air and does it better than a LS.
    Just don't drop into a rock garden or fly down rocky trails.
    Good point. Unless heís tall. I spent a week riding in Pisgah last year. Fun area if it didnít rain so much; I can imagine the Evil doing well there.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Good point. Unless heís tall. I spent a week riding in Pisgah last year. Fun area if it didnít rain so much; I can imagine the Evil doing well there.
    One of the interesting things, to me, about bikes is that they tend to perform best in regions most similar to where they were designed. Pivot does well in square edged rocks and chunk, Evil does well in roots and rounded surfaces. The bigger companies obviously donít have that geographic affiliation, and they tend to perform at an 80% level in all terrain.

    Tires, too. People riding Schwalbe tires in Moab are going to be sorely disappointed in a brand from Germany, where red sandstone isnít really a thing they ever encounter. Dark forests, loam, wet roots? Yeah, and their tires reflect that.


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  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by almazing View Post
    Trail Pistol.
    This!

    Not sure what your definition of "short travel" is, but if it is 120mm or less and you truly want to get "rowdy" I would definitely go Trail Pistol.
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  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Good point. Unless heís tall. I spent a week riding in Pisgah last year. Fun area if it didnít rain so much; I can imagine the Evil doing well there.
    True the Following favors a lower saddle to bar height. And seat slide forward.

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    One of the interesting things, to me, about bikes is that they tend to perform best in regions most similar to where they were designed. Pivot does well in square edged rocks and chunk, Evil does well in roots and rounded surfaces. The bigger companies obviously donít have that geographic affiliation, and they tend to perform at an 80% level in all terrain.

    Tires, too. People riding Schwalbe tires in Moab are going to be sorely disappointed in a brand from Germany, where red sandstone isnít really a thing they ever encounter. Dark forests, loam, wet roots? Yeah, and their tires reflect that.


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    This should be a stickied topic! Other than the Big 3. Smaller companies tend to build bikes where are tested. I also think the size of the owners and testers will help get an ideal size bike fit as well.

  36. #136
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    How about a Devinci Marshall 29?

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    One of the interesting things, to me, about bikes is that they tend to perform best in regions most similar to where they were designed. Pivot does well in square edged rocks and chunk, Evil does well in roots and rounded surfaces. The bigger companies obviously donít have that geographic affiliation, and they tend to perform at an 80% level in all terrain.

    Tires, too. People riding Schwalbe tires in Moab are going to be sorely disappointed in a brand from Germany, where red sandstone isnít really a thing they ever encounter. Dark forests, loam, wet roots? Yeah, and their tires reflect that.


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    Excellent point. Now that you mention it, not sure Iíve run a single bike from the PNW that I really loved.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo View Post
    How about "just about any xc bike fitted with a Fox 34 @ 120 mms" for a very short answer?!
    Was mentioned and I would consider, but along with a new fork, I'd want a dropper and shorter stem. And I've broken a couple of frames before so would want something somewhat sturdy or with a solid warranty.

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    How about a Devinci Marshall 29?
    Looks like it would fit the bill so I'll ad it to the list of bikes I'd like to demo. Could only find the NX version with a 32 lb medium weight.
    Was hoping the weight would be a bit less. I'm not a weight weenie, but my current bike is 130 front and back and 31lbs with pedals. If I were to get a new shorter travel ride, I'd want something lighter. Yet at the same time, I'm not ready to drop > $4k on a bike without a solid demo and loving it.

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by bank5 View Post
    Looks like it would fit the bill so I'll ad it to the list of bikes I'd like to demo. Could only find the NX version with a 32 lb medium weight.
    Was hoping the weight would be a bit less. I'm not a weight weenie, but my current bike is 130 front and back and 31lbs with pedals. If I were to get a new shorter travel ride, I'd want something lighter. Yet at the same time, I'm not ready to drop > $4k on a bike without a solid demo and loving it.
    I test rode the 27.5+ version. I liked it but it didn't fit my style of riding, but based on the fit and how the suspension worked, the Django might be my next bike

  41. #141
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    Devinci Marshall for a shorter travel bike:

    DEVINCI - MARSHALL CARBON
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  42. #142
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    I have Marshall in a 27+, it's not light in aluminum, but they make the frames in Canada which is nice. The Marshall is a bit short on travel, I overshocked mine to ~120mm with a 130mm Pike, rode the shite out of it, brother rides it now.

    I've had a few Devinci bikes, DW works well, they tend to spec shortish chainstays, I like their bikes quite a bit.

    If you're leaning 29er, you might want to think about short chainstay bikes like the Kona Process 153 (little longer travel than you're looking for) or the discontinued but awesome riding Process 111. Trail Pistol would be kinda cool too, 429mm CS, never ridden one, but the company and sales model is solid.

    It's amazing how many great choices we have now compared to just five years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by bank5 View Post
    Looks like it would fit the bill so I'll ad it to the list of bikes I'd like to demo. Could only find the NX version with a 32 lb medium weight.
    Was hoping the weight would be a bit less. I'm not a weight weenie, but my current bike is 130 front and back and 31lbs with pedals. If I were to get a new shorter travel ride, I'd want something lighter. Yet at the same time, I'm not ready to drop > $4k on a bike without a solid demo and loving it.

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    I'm 180 before gear and ride in Phoenix. Both the Yeti and Evil are gorgeous bicycles. The Following has terrible suspension in the sort of extremely rocky tech I ride in and the slack seat angle had my center of mass over the rear hub.

    The Yeti was an incredible climber and beautiful. Very waggly rear end, choppy suspension and just felt fragile. Not good in this environment.

    The 429T geo is a little wonky, but it really is a great all-rounder that pedals well and is a fun descender.

    The Banshee Phantom, though, is a complete beast. Heavy, decent pedaler but not crisp, itís a war machine even in ridiculous gnar. Really, really love that bike.
    Thanks for the information. Sounds like your terrain is big part of the equation (as it should be). We have a lot of rock around here, but not like Phoenix.

    I'm a big fan of the switch infinity suspension on the Yeti though. Maybe it's just a personal preference since I like something a little firmer. I've only been on the Evil for about 10 minutes and it was set up too firm for me, so I'm interested to see if feels better when set correctly. Seems like every review says that the DELTA performs better that your experience, which just proves you really need to try bikes for yourself to see if you like how they ride.

    Just wondering, did you have the old Following or the MB? I swear the actual seat tube angle is steeper on the MB despite having the same spec listed.

    I don't have any experience with Banshee and there isn't a dealer close. The Phantom looks interesting, but heavy as you say. And, their website sucks, so hard to find info quickly.

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I have Marshall in a 27+, it's not light in aluminum, but they make the frames in Canada which is nice. The Marshall is a bit short on travel, I overshocked mine to ~120mm with a 130mm Pike, rode the shite out of it, brother rides it now.

    I've had a few Devinci bikes, DW works well, they tend to spec shortish chainstays, I like their bikes quite a bit.

    If you're leaning 29er, you might want to think about short chainstay bikes like the Kona Process 153 (little longer travel than you're looking for) or the discontinued but awesome riding Process 111. Trail Pistol would be kinda cool too, 429mm CS, never ridden one, but the company and sales model is solid.

    It's amazing how many great choices we have now compared to just five years ago.
    I'm actually thinking of a Marshall with a SC 34 to gain back some of the weight. Frame price can't be beat if you know where to shop.
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  45. #145
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    I paid 1k for an aluminum frame with a shock, then added a longer stroke CC Inline, got about 120-125mm travel now.

    The Marshall with stock shock and travel is 110mm, not a lot, but maybe enough for some.

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    I'm actually thinking of a Marshall with a SC 34 to gain back some of the weight. Frame price can't be beat if you know where to shop.

  46. #146
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    Looking at this for myself for next years build (for my 40th). Have been lusting after a steel framed bike since I switched to my Aluminum FS about 5yrs ago and finally decided that I am going to pull the trigger. Found Cotic Bikes, from the UK that do a Reynolds 853 front triangle and (think) 4130 rear. It is a standard single pivot design that they have done their own tweaks too and call their DROP LINK suspension. New geometry of their bikes goes to their Long Shot geometry, keeping up with standards of Long, Low, Slack.

    But I am debating on whether I want their short travel trail bike (FlareMAX) that is 120mm rear (or 190x45 which they tell me is more like 122mm) or their enduro bike (RocketMAX) which is 140mm rear (200x57). Do lots and lots and lots of riding in Lake Tahoe, Ca with everything from Mr. Toads to more buff stuff in Reno/Carson. My main concern then becomes that it needs to climb as well as it descends, if not better.


  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I paid 1k for an aluminum frame with a shock, then added a longer stroke CC Inline, got about 120-125mm travel now.

    The Marshall with stock shock and travel is 110mm, not a lot, but maybe enough for some.
    I won't getting into a pissing match about travel, but do believe a lot of riders are over biked.

    This is a thread about short travel 29er and I think 100-120mm fits that bill. The only issue I have with the Marshall is the frame weight for such a short travel frame.
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  48. #148
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    Ever since Devinci stopped making the Atlas I keep forgetting about them. Even though I've tested a few of the new ones. On the topic of region. They seem to be built for more forest trials where really long can make meeting trees easier.

  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    Ever since Devinci stopped making the Atlas I keep forgetting about them. Even though I've tested a few of the new ones. On the topic of region. They seem to be built for more forest trials where really long can make meeting trees easier.
    Question is.... define "really long".
    Looking at the Pole Evolink 140, you are talking close to a 1300mm wheelbase. That just seems stupid long but watching some of the ride reviews on YouTube, guys like LoamRanger are ripping through some tight forest trails without issue.

    Current bike is ~46 5/8" wheelbase, and I have no issues taking that up tight switchbacks. Yes it takes a bit of extra body english at times, but nothing unmanageable. Downhill is different just because I dont have a lot of confidence on downhill switchbacks but I take them as fast as I can manage.

  50. #150
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    I can think of a dozen bikes I'd happily ride, each is different, and they would all be fun cuz I'd be riding

    I think the OP has more options than he can shake a stick out, he just needs to pull the trigger and go ride.

  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Question is.... define "really long".
    Looking at the Pole Evolink 140, you are talking close to a 1300mm wheelbase. That just seems stupid long but watching some of the ride reviews on YouTube, guys like LoamRanger are ripping through some tight forest trails without issue.

    Current bike is ~46 5/8" wheelbase, and I have no issues taking that up tight switchbacks. Yes it takes a bit of extra body english at times, but nothing unmanageable. Downhill is different just because I dont have a lot of confidence on downhill switchbacks but I take them as fast as I can manage.
    What's your height? If ride a size large a lot of bikes are at least 1" longer than your thumper. The longer the bike The slower it responds. Switch backs are one thing but I like having fun in S turns with tight tree lines. I like a bike that handles more like a Lotus, but doesn't have XC geo.

  52. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    What's your height? If ride a size large a lot of bikes are at least 1" longer than your thumper. The longer the bike The slower it responds. Switch backs are one thing but I like having fun in S turns with tight tree lines. I like a bike that handles more like a Lotus, but doesn't have XC geo.
    I am 6' with a 31" inseam (more torso and arms than legs). I ride a large and fit that quite well. There are a few "S" type turns where I ride predominantly but it is lots of trail with little "flow" trail (what I would call your S turn tracks) for more than maybe 1/2 mile if that. So for me the difference in the bike is something that I am slightly concerned about but I do not have long, gradual, flowy downhills here in plethora like some may.

    I like crunching the numbers but also understand that doing so only gets you so far as the numbers do not really explain the seat of the pants feeling that you get. Some days my bike feels really long and others not so much. With the way geos are changing as of late, its can really be a crapshoot.

  53. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    I am 6' with a 31" inseam (more torso and arms than legs). I ride a large and fit that quite well. There are a few "S" type turns where I ride predominantly but it is lots of trail with little "flow" trail (what I would call your S turn tracks) for more than maybe 1/2 mile if that. So for me the difference in the bike is something that I am slightly concerned about but I do not have long, gradual, flowy downhills here in plethora like some may.

    I like crunching the numbers but also understand that doing so only gets you so far as the numbers do not really explain the seat of the pants feeling that you get. Some days my bike feels really long and others not so much. With the way geos are changing as of late, its can really be a crapshoot.
    For me the challenge of a long bike is not just a switch back, it's that many of them around me are there because of trees.
    So that prevents you from leaning the bike as much- that's where I can tell a difference between a short and long wheel base.

    On both my old Tallboy and current Ripley there were/are times I still scrub a tree with my shoulder.
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  54. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    I am 6' with a 31" inseam (more torso and arms than legs). I ride a large and fit that quite well. There are a few "S" type turns where I ride predominantly but it is lots of trail with little "flow" trail (what I would call your S turn tracks) for more than maybe 1/2 mile if that. So for me the difference in the bike is something that I am slightly concerned about but I do not have long, gradual, flowy downhills here in plethora like some may.

    I like crunching the numbers but also understand that doing so only gets you so far as the numbers do not really explain the seat of the pants feeling that you get. Some days my bike feels really long and others not so much. With the way geos are changing as of late, its can really be a crapshoot.
    So true, some of the trails I ride could be called good use of space. Some are flow ( no need of peddling) or chunky but most have trees to worry about so a sharper turning bike at slower speeds is needed. Our corner are flat so a good lean angle isn't always doable.

  55. #155
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    Short travel 29ers that can get rowdy

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    For me the challenge of a long bike is not just a switch back, it's that many of them around me are there because of trees.
    So that prevents you from leaning the bike as much- that's where I can tell a difference between a short and long wheel base.

    On both my old Tallboy and current Ripley there were/are times I still scrub a tree with my shoulder.
    People who live out west and have never ridden on the east coast just arenít going to understand.

    The Loam Ranger example he provided is a perfect microcosm of that. No, thatís not ďtightĒ; itís a MACHINE BUILT BIKE PARK. Half of the trail could have had a Honda Civic driven down it.






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  56. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    People who live out west and have never ridden on the east coast just arenít going to understand.
    Honestly, this is a concern of mine. The bike industry is all out west, maybe they don't sell enough of them over here, but the trend of long, longer doesn't work where I ride and choices are getting limited.

    Even though I have a Sniper on order I'm still looking around. When I found out Ibis was releasing a longer travel bike I thought maybe it'll work for me even if I don't need the travel since Ibis' are so efficient- well the WB threw that right out the window.
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  57. #157
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    I ride mostly in middle TN where they tend to pack as much trail per acre as possible. I have one bike that's 49.6" long and another that's 46.2". I can tell a difference but the longer bike isn't actually a problem. The only time it's slower is on very tight turns which are super slow no matter what and maybe tight S berms.

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    For me the challenge of a long bike is not just a switch back, it's that many of them around me are there because of trees.
    So that prevents you from leaning the bike as much- that's where I can tell a difference between a short and long wheel base.

    On both my old Tallboy and current Ripley there were/are times I still scrub a tree with my shoulder.

    I ran into the same problem with some of the long wheelbase, slack bikes I demo'ed. With the front tire so far out in front, I wasn't always confident it was going to make the turn and not clip a tree.

  59. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon Fat View Post
    I ran into the same problem with some of the long wheelbase, slack bikes I demo'ed. With the front tire so far out in front, I wasn't always confident it was going to make the turn and not clip a tree.
    It's definitely something you have to get used to. I don't have much of a choice at 6'5". After awhile I realized the extra length of my Hightower is more of a feeling issue than a physical hindrance. Wheelbase like most geometry, suspension travel and tires is a compromise. That's why having multiple bikes nice.

  60. #160
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    Seems people here blur the lines of short travel and mid travel. That being said, I run a Pivot 429SL with 120MM Fox 34, custom wheels and beefier tires, and fox dropper. Pedaling is great with DW Link and decends reasonably for a short travel bike (69.3 headtube angle). I live in the midwest, but have taken this bike to Pisgah, Moab, St. Louis, etc., where there is obviously more chunck, drops, etc., and this bike has handled it all that I can do. Sure there were plenty of times when more travel would have been nice, but I am newer to the sport , and am finally progressing to the point where i can use a bigger bike. However, I am keeping my SL and will likely get the RIPMO or Switchblade for my out of town trips.

  61. #161
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    short travel
    pivot 429

    mid travel
    canfield nimble 9
    santa cruz chameleon
    or a ton of fs bikes

  62. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by fillyo View Post
    Seems people here blur the lines of short travel and mid travel. That being said, I run a Pivot 429SL with 120MM Fox 34, custom wheels and beefier tires, and fox dropper. Pedaling is great with DW Link and decends reasonably for a short travel bike (69.3 headtube angle). I live in the midwest, but have taken this bike to Pisgah, Moab, St. Louis, etc., where there is obviously more chunck, drops, etc., and this bike has handled it all that I can do. Sure there were plenty of times when more travel would have been nice, but I am newer to the sport , and am finally progressing to the point where i can use a bigger bike. However, I am keeping my SL and will likely get the RIPMO or Switchblade for my out of town trips.
    If you like low bottom brackets the Switchblade is a good bike and won't be much longer. I prefer Ibis over Piviot and was wishing the Ripmo would have been closer to the Switchblade. The Canfield Riot is like the Switchblade with a higher BB

  63. #163
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    Good discussion guys and really have me rethinking what I had originally planned. With the Carson City Off-road coming in a few weeks I plan on taking advantage of the demo day and trying out a Pivot 429Trail if they have one available. I have lusted after a Canfield for some time but then again, the same can be said for the steel fs frame.

    Looking out there most of the companies (aside from one that I have found) that make steel FS bikes are all EU based. I completely understand what everyone is talking about with the differences between the trails in the west vs. east which is why I think that the longer wheelbase may work for me. But I think you guys are right that the industry is taking a look at a narrow sample set for the "geo" standards that are coming out and then go with where they believe the majority of the riding happens (which makes MARKETING sense).

    One caveat for me is that I take the bike a few places, we have family in Steamboat Springs, CO so bike ALWAYS goes with me there on a yearly basis for a weeks' worth of riding, then every other year it seems we head to Sedona with my dad. Other trails are pretty much everything in Norcal from the central valley (where I grew up) to Downieville and I will be hitting Chico (bidwell park) in a couple weeks here for the first time. But again most of my travels keep me west coast trail based.

    Current short/mid travel bike picks are;
    - Cotic FlareMAX/RocketMAX
    - GG Shreddog
    - Canfield Tior/Riot

    For me these will be frame up builds (too picky about my parts) so I will grab the frame and slowly build it up with parts that I want (Manitou Suspension, SRAM drivetrain, Vittoria tires, Answer bars, WTB wheels, etc.). Also agree that the lines between Trail and XC are getting blurred with the capabilities of all these bikes now days. Funny how a TRAIL bike when I first started riding 7yrs ago was anything over 120mm front suspension. Now that is more the low end of TRAIL and considered to be more an XC bike (depending on geometry), this makes me then wonder if my 150/130 setup is really over-biked for 80% of what I am doing and I would be just fine with something like a 140/120 setup as long as it was efficient and had a more "trail" oriented geo.

  64. #164
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    Then what is it about? This guy's just trying to get a little help

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowriderAZ View Post
    Then what is it about? This guy's just trying to get a little help
    Not sure what you are on about??? Looks like he has gotten plenty of recommendations and is currently looking at the Devinci Marshall. He wants something light, rowdy, mid-travel but not an arm and a leg to purchase. Main caveat in there is the he is willing to spend extra money if he can throw a leg over it and ride it for a bit.

  66. #166
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    Well, let us know what you go with. I'll leave this here!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Short travel 29ers that can get rowdy-big-rock.jpg  


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    Sniper Trail

    Short travel 29ers that can get rowdy-sniper-trail-pro-gry-45rear.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by fillyo View Post
    Well, let us know what you go with. I'll leave this here!
    Love that trail!

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    Yes and no, Iíve been back out West for four years, but lived twenty years in VA and TN.

    Some of the BC, OR, WA riding is not unlike Appalachian riding, though I think the West coast stuff is a little bigger.

    Iíd still ride a 29er in either coast, wet or dry, wide open desert to tight footy Pisgah, love me some big wheels.

    I might choose a shorter wheelbase out East, less travel too, but not a low B.B.

    I might even skip rear suspension unless Inwas doing a lot of big descents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    People who live out west and have never ridden on the east coast just arenít going to understand.

    The Loam Ranger example he provided is a perfect microcosm of that. No, thatís not ďtightĒ; itís a MACHINE BUILT BIKE PARK. Half of the trail could have had a Honda Civic driven down it.






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  70. #170
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    Spot Mayhem for the win. 130mm front/rear, and I've ridden this thing in all kinds of terrain- tight and wide open- from Moab to the Colorado high country.


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    The Mayhem, Following MB, and Pivot 429 Trail, all look good right now. I'm 6' tall and am on a large Yeti 4.5. Looking for a bike to replace it that is more playful but pedals as well. Will be demo-ing some soon. The super-low BB trend bothers me a bit so I need to really make sure I don't go lower than the Yeti.

  72. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by smmokan View Post
    Spot Mayhem for the win. 130mm front/rear, and I've ridden this thing in all kinds of terrain- tight and wide open- from Moab to the Colorado high country.

    I know you have a lot of experience with the Ripley LS too. How would you compare the two?

  73. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer View Post
    The Mayhem, Following MB, and Pivot 429 Trail, all look good right now. I'm 6' tall and am on a large Yeti 4.5. Looking for a bike to replace it that is more playful but pedals as well. Will be demo-ing some soon. The super-low BB trend bothers me a bit so I need to really make sure I don't go lower than the Yeti.
    The Yeti is a great bike in that category. You might need to demo to make sure you really find what you are looking for--the Yeti is known to be an awesome pedaler. Playful is a very subjective term.

  74. #174
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    Short travel 29ers that can get rowdy

    Quote Originally Posted by ejj View Post
    I know you have a lot of experience with the Ripley LS too. How would you compare the two?
    Overall, I think it climbs a bit better and it allows you to tackle more rowdy terrain than the Ripley LS. These are both due to the geometry, I'm sure (the steeper STA and the more slack HTA). The bike just feels more solid to me. It pedals better, IMO- it's hard to ride a bike with a "traditional" STA after being on the Mayhem.

    The Ripley is definitely lighter overall for a similar build level, and it feels a touch more playful in tight terrain.

  75. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by svinyard View Post
    I'd pass on Smuggler, its a LONG bike and not what I'd want for a short travel whip for tight twisty stuff.
    The SBG Smuggler is pretty nimble. And Transition is also a "defacto" rowdy bike. It's only "flaw" is the rear tire clearance.

  76. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmb View Post
    2018 Rocky Mountain Element. 120mm Fox34 and adjustable geo.
    I second this. I've seen one hammer the rowdiest trails at Pisgah with a very good rider.
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  77. #177
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    I would put another vote in the Kona Process 111 camp. It is not a light bike, but the slack geometry, short chainstays and progressive shock tune make it a fun, poppy bike that can shred. Plus, you may be able to find good deals on used bikes or older models.
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  78. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    People who live out west and have never ridden on the east coast just arenít going to understand.

    The Loam Ranger example he provided is a perfect microcosm of that. No, thatís not ďtightĒ; itís a MACHINE BUILT BIKE PARK. Half of the trail could have had a Honda Civic driven down it.






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    It probably cost too much, but I wish there were more bikes fitting to the East Cost. Long bikes and 800mm bars feel great out West. Where I think most people out here would take a bike that is a little nervous at high speeds to be fun in the tight spaces.

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    I'm gonna respectfully disagree. I lived and rode in the Smokeys most of my adult life, only back out west for 4 years. I would happilly ride the same bikes in TN/NC that I ride here.

    Granted, wide bars are not happening, so I'd go with a 720-740, probably ride a short travel bike 120-130 vs a mid travel 140-150, but the long and slack still pertains. I prefer high BB, so that would be the same as East Coast riding is too rooty for low BB's.

    Last time in TN I rode a Hightower LT and a Tallboy in the Dirty South, it was fine.

    I would probably have a second bike, a short chainstay hardtail, maybe set up single speed; this is what I rode most of the time when I livde in Knoxvegas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    It probably cost too much, but I wish there were more bikes fitting to the East Cost. Long bikes and 800mm bars feel great out West. Where I think most people out here would take a bike that is a little nervous at high speeds to be fun in the tight spaces.

  80. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I'm gonna respectfully disagree. I lived and rode in the Smokeys most of my adult life, only back out west for 4 years. I would happilly ride the same bikes in TN/NC that I ride here.

    Granted, wide bars are not happening, so I'd go with a 720-740, probably ride a short travel bike 120-130 vs a mid travel 140-150, but the long and slack still pertains. I prefer high BB, so that would be the same as East Coast riding is too rooty for low BB's.

    Last time in TN I rode a Hightower LT and a Tallboy in the Dirty South, it was fine.

    I would probably have a second bike, a short chainstay hardtail, maybe set up single speed; this is what I rode most of the time when I livde in Knoxvegas.
    It's all personally preference. I can say I went from a 2012 SJ FSR to a TBcV1 and suspension design aside, I lovde the sports car feel of the TBc vs. the big rig feel of the SJ.

    I'll take slightly nervous over long and stable any day.
    Last edited by TwoTone; 05-09-2018 at 12:26 PM.
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  81. #181
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    I ride an XXL Hightower with 800mm bars in TN. I've never had an issue keeping up with people on smaller bikes. There's a couple odd spots my bike will have trouble physically making the turn but it's extremely rare.

    That said, if my budget (wife) allowed I'd love to have something like a Tallboy for normal singletrack.

  82. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I'm gonna respectfully disagree. I lived and rode in the Smokeys most of my adult life, only back out west for 4 years. I would happilly ride the same bikes in TN/NC that I ride here.

    Granted, wide bars are not happening, so I'd go with a 720-740, probably ride a short travel bike 120-130 vs a mid travel 140-150, but the long and slack still pertains. I prefer high BB, so that would be the same as East Coast riding is too rooty for low BB's.

    Last time in TN I rode a Hightower LT and a Tallboy in the Dirty South, it was fine.

    I would probably have a second bike, a short chainstay hardtail, maybe set up single speed; this is what I rode most of the time when I livde in Knoxvegas.
    IMHO SC bikes are not as long as most. The HTLT was less than 1/2 inch longer than may Riot but is 1 1/2 inch shorter than most bikes in its class. I rode the HTLT in Pishga and liked it. Just still like my Riot better.

  83. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    IMHO SC bikes are not as long as most. The HTLT was less than 1/2 inch longer than may Riot but is 1 1/2 inch shorter than most bikes in its class. I rode the HTLT in Pishga and liked it. Just still like my Riot better.
    When I called asking about sizing, since I'm considering a Tallboy they will even say they tend to run smaller than other brands.
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  84. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    When I called asking about sizing, since I'm considering a Tallboy they will even say they tend to run smaller than other brands.
    Yeah SC and Evil are not as long as what's trendy. Neither is the Piviot Swichblade. So there are some choices. Most have a BB lower than I like. The Tall Boy has a pretty short wheelbase and would be great where you ride. And could do most the parks in MD I love the orange & black.

  85. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    When I called asking about sizing, since I'm considering a Tallboy they will even say they tend to run smaller than other brands.
    They run pretty average in my experience. Their XL bikes tend to run longer than Giant, Trek and Intense but shorter than Transition or other really progressive brands.

  86. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    Yeah SC and Evil are not as long as what's trendy. Neither is the Piviot Swichblade. So there are some choices. Most have a BB lower than I like. The Tall Boy has a pretty short wheelbase and would be great where you ride. And could do most the parks in MD I love the orange & black.
    Yea I think the warranty has swayed me, just trying to find a deal. Something happened when SC was purchased, no one is talking about it but a bunch of the shops that I've dealt with that used to be dealers are no longer SC dealers.

    Hell I rode all of Bryce on my TBcv1, I think if I started heading to Snowshoe more than I might need more, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
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    I didn't "like" the way the SC bikes ride, but they were okay.

    I'd take a bike like the Riot for anything East Coast and most everything West Coast, just not for the kind of riding I do on a day to day basis.

    I hope the Bros come back in 2019, right now it's crickets.

    I did consider a Riot/Toir, but none available now and I'm hoping they come out with one that has a tad more tire capacity. I'd buy one in a blink if it could run 2.8.

    As it is I have a Smash on order...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    IMHO SC bikes are not as long as most. The HTLT was less than 1/2 inch longer than may Riot but is 1 1/2 inch shorter than most bikes in its class. I rode the HTLT in Pishga and liked it. Just still like my Riot better.

  88. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I didn't "like" the way the SC bikes ride, but they were okay.

    I'd take a bike like the Riot for anything East Coast and most everything West Coast, just not for the kind of riding I do on a day to day basis.

    I hope the Bros come back in 2019, right now it's crickets.

    I did consider a Riot/Toir, but none available now and I'm hoping they come out with one that has a tad more tire capacity. I'd buy one in a blink if it could run 2.8.

    As it is I have a Smash on order...
    Yeah, I'm waiting as well. The Riot is pretty versital, you can short shock it and make it 120mm for easy stuff. It's just a heavy bike and the linkage needs to be updated since it's a lot flexy. FYI when I said bikes are getting long I didn't mean compared to XC bikes we used to ride

  89. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Yea I think the warranty has swayed me, just trying to find a deal. Something happened when SC was purchased, no one is talking about it but a bunch of the shops that I've dealt with that used to be dealers are no longer SC dealers.

    Hell I rode all of Bryce on my TBcv1, I think if I started heading to Snowshoe more than I might need more, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
    Less than a year ago Bike Dr in Frederick told me they became a dealer. Don't know if they have demos. 1800-2099 depending on carbon or aluminum isn't that bad. ( I just looked and trying to tell myself I don't need a 4th bike lol)Probably could find it for less. Might have to loose the hardtail.

  90. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    Less than a year ago Bike Dr in Frederick told me they became a dealer. Don't know if they have demos. 1800-2099 depending on carbon or aluminum isn't that bad. ( I just looked and trying to tell myself I don't need a 4th bike lol)Probably could find it for less. Might have to loose the hardtail.
    It's $2999 for the carbon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smmokan View Post
    Overall, I think it climbs a bit better and it allows you to tackle more rowdy terrain than the Ripley LS. These are both due to the geometry, I'm sure (the steeper STA and the more slack HTA). The bike just feels more solid to me. It pedals better, IMO- it's hard to ride a bike with a "traditional" STA after being on the Mayhem.

    The Ripley is definitely lighter overall for a similar build level, and it feels a touch more playful in tight terrain.
    interesting to hear. I was quite into Mayhem but after reading not very favorable review on pinkibike i lost interest. Maynly because they bashed it ability to keep up in rough both uphill and downhill. Now what you are saying seems promising. I also am in front range and wander how it handles trails around here. I have ridden ripley ls here and while it handled well in rough i always thought little more capability would be nice. Would you say thhat mayhem would be more capable for front range and high country while being efficent climber for all day adventures? Thanks

  92. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh View Post
    The SBG Smuggler is pretty nimble. And Transition is also a "defacto" rowdy bike. It's only "flaw" is the rear tire clearance.
    agree, i recently demoed al smuggler and its one fun bike to goof around, it felt as better climber and descender and just way more fun than ripley i have also ridden

  93. #193
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    I currently own a Mayhem(29) and its a great bike for most of the riding I do, its definitely the best climbing bike ive owned, my problem with it is I cant get it set up right for descending, I do get a lot of chatter entering a turn and sometimes over shoot the turn, for that reason it does not inspire confidence in me while descending. On a side note though I bought new bars and stem when I bought this frame and went to a 50mm stem, thinking a shorter stem might be better, my bike prior to the Mayhem was a Hightower which I ran a 70mm stem (which seems so long in todays bike world) and that bike ripped down hill but climbed nothing like the Mayhem, so im going to try the old setup on the Mayhem and see if that helps me at all.
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  94. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by ejj View Post
    The Yeti is a great bike in that category. You might need to demo to make sure you really find what you are looking for--the Yeti is known to be an awesome pedaler. Playful is a very subjective term.
    It does pedal extremely well. I think if the chain stay was a bit shorter, it would be more nimble. Still, I like it a lot and may not replace it but find a bike that complements it well. Mayhem? Evil Calling? No idea yet...still researching. Took the Following and 429 trail off the list.

  95. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by cavo View Post
    interesting to hear. I was quite into Mayhem but after reading not very favorable review on pinkibike i lost interest. Maynly because they bashed it ability to keep up in rough both uphill and downhill. Now what you are saying seems promising. I also am in front range and wander how it handles trails around here. I have ridden ripley ls here and while it handled well in rough i always thought little more capability would be nice. Would you say thhat mayhem would be more capable for front range and high country while being efficent climber for all day adventures? Thanks
    Not favorable review on PB? The only thing they managed to say that was negative is that the bike couldn't handle big drops in the PNW; it wasn't meant for that anyways. FWIW, it can certainly handle anything you're going to ride on the Front Range. I've ridden all the most technical trails around here with it: Dakota, White Ranch, Left Hand, Bobcat Ridge, etc.

    My comments that you quoted are spot-on (no pun intended)... the Mayhem is more capable on the downhills than the Ripley, and climbs better as well- regardless of the terrain. I haven't found any limitations on climbing techy terrain, and that includes anything in Moab, Fruita, and St. George as well. The Ripley is a bit lighter and a bit quicker handling overall, but I prefer the Mayhem for my personal riding style.

    Once my spring riding season is over, I'll drop the beefy tires (DHF/DHR) to save about 1/2 to 1 lb of weight, and I'll be more than happy with it for all day high-country adventures.

  96. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by smmokan View Post
    Not favorable review on PB? The only thing they managed to say that was negative is that the bike couldn't handle big drops in the PNW; it wasn't meant for that anyways. FWIW, it can certainly handle anything you're going to ride on the Front Range. I've ridden all the most technical trails around here with it: Dakota, White Ranch, Left Hand, Bobcat Ridge, etc......
    the Mayhem is more capable on the downhills than the Ripley, and climbs better as well- regardless of the terrain. ....The Ripley is a bit lighter and a bit quicker handling overall, but I prefer the Mayhem for my personal riding style.
    .
    Exactly. Here's another review from a nsmb.com (https://nsmb.com/articles/spot-mayhem-29-north-shore/ testing on similar terrain as PB review and other than the big hit capability they loved the bike.
    If you are an aggressive DH'er a 36 at 140 or 150 or in my case a MRP Ribbon @ 140 is the way to go. I'm on the Front Range as well and I'm busting down DH PR's on most every ride on it. (Yes, I'm a Strava geek). Just today another DH PR (#6 overall/alltime) on a Strava DH segment that is typical Front Range...Top is lots o chunk/rock, some 2-3ft drops, loose..bottom = fast, flowy w/ end loose with some whoops. As an aside, I did replace the stock .2 Fox DPS spacer straight away though with a ~.5 spacer, so I never rode the bike with stock shock set-up. This bike was a replacement for a OG Ripley I had for 5 years and it is better in every way (other than weight). If you want an extremely efficient fast bike this is it. If you want the plushest ride around look elsewhere. I also have a Hightower longshocked to 150 with a 160 Lyrik and honestly the Mayhem is faster (and more fun) everywhere for me except in the most burly sections (.05% of total riding). If we are talking park stuff that's a whole different story but for a Front Range trail slayer this bike is incredible


    NSMB.com Summary...


    I try to refrain from gushing on reviews, but I really like this thing. The fun factor is pinned, which is an impressive task with 29" hoops. It allows impressive feats with small travel, and has really opened my eyes to what smaller bikes can be capable of. It's not going to offer the big hit capability of a long travel enduro rig, but for much of the terrain many of us typically ride, the greater efficiency of something like this makes for an all round more fun and effective steed. Sometimes less can indeed be more as the slightly reduced pace in big chunk can often be more than offset by boosted speed and playfulness everywhere else. Out of the box I'd certainly be swapping tires and brake rotors, but everything else is on point. For the steeper, chunkier terrain I tend to ride, I'd be tempted to try bolting on a Fox 36 fork in 140 or 150mm travel; I think it'd be beastly good, but I'd have a hard time giving the bike back. As it sits this is an impressive debut from a relatively small company.

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    Piviot just redid the 429 Trail. This bike looks like it's a sweet spot for peddly trails, but can handle rough stuff.

  98. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    Piviot just redid the 429 Trail. This bike looks like it's a sweet spot for peddly trails, but can handle rough stuff.
    Super boost is a deal killer tho. Agreed the rest of the spec looks perfect. But who wants to have to deal with a new spec type when all other of its competitors are using boost spacing. Seems unnecessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bank5 View Post
    Most of the trails by me are tight twisty XC trails with rolling hills. So I'd like a bike that is "nimble" and pedals well, especially out of the saddle. But there's some more technical stuff with tough climbs, jump lines, plenty of rocks, some fun short downhill runs all of which I tend to prefer. It seems like the trend is for bikes to get bigger in terms of travel, but any recommendations for short travel (120mm or less) 29er with progressive geometry - 68 or slacker HTA, short chainstay and wheelbase, can fit wide rims with 2.4s.

    The other option is to own two separate bikes (trail and XC) but I find that it takes some time switching between bikes and having full confidence in each one.
    Based on my own experiences riding in GA, upstate SC and all over NC, in no particular order, I recommend:

    Fuel EX
    Tall Boy 3
    Sniper
    Hightower
    2017 and older version of the 429 Trail (2.4 tires might not fit)- Forget the new 429 Trail. Super Boost? C'mon man!

    Try to demo as many as you can. I was fortunate to ride all five before selecting a Tall Boy 3 CC. All five are amazing bikes. It came down to a getting a killer deal on the Tall Boy and the Santa Cruz lifetime warranty.
    Last edited by 410sprint; 05-17-2018 at 08:50 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wooly88 View Post
    Super boost is a deal killer tho. Agreed the rest of the spec looks perfect. But who wants to have to deal with a new spec type when all other of its competitors are using boost spacing. Seems unnecessary.
    IMHO boost was stupid and didn't solve anything. 12x157 isn't new. And will make for a better wheel. In 29ers I'm pretty sure a lot of companies will switch to it. But if you haven't avoided boost and have a great wheel set built I can understand holding out.

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