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  1. #1
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    Short reach FS 29er?

    I tried the search function, but couldn't find a whole lot.

    I've been riding 29er HTs for years now, but getting older and am looking to try a FS setup. Along with the "getting older" comes a shift from the now-popular "long and low" to the much less popular "short and high", which is what I'm looking for.

    In a nutshell, I'm looking for suggestions for a FS, short-travel, shorter reach 29er. I ride more mellow XC trails that are sometimes strewn with roots and rocks, so I don't need a long-travel bike. Maybe even something more slanted to all-day bikepacking-type riding?

    Thanks!
    Enjoy the ride!

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    You are going to do great shopping for a 2-3 year old bike at a bargain. Check out the Yeti SB 4.5 for instance. Yeti's are quite short in the reach as well as the tt. In a new bike, that would be a challenge to find.

    Good luck!

  3. #3
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    Stumpjumper ST, Santa Cruz HT...both fantastic bikes with short reach.
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  4. #4
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    Ibis Ripley

  5. #5
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    santa cruz hightower or tallboy. Ibis ripley LS is a good suggestion as well.

    Define what is short to you? Also, keep in mind that you can add 30-40mm rise bars and put on a shorter stem to get some of these mild long bikes back to comfortable for you.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by LBIkid View Post
    ...In a nutshell, I'm looking for suggestions for a FS, short-travel, shorter reach 29er. I ride more mellow XC trails...
    Sounds like the typical XC bike to me: Santa Cruz Blur, Trek Top Fuel, Specialized Epic (Brain shock, yuck!), Cannondale Scalpel, Canyon Lux...
    Do the math.

  7. #7
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    Lenz! I was able to visit their location recently and threw a leg over both the large and xlarge frames. The first thing I noticed was what felt like a nice compact top tube that had me nice and upright like my JonesPlus and Pugsley are setup. Very impressed by the fit and now trying to figure out how to acquire one

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Rides Bikes View Post
    Lenz! I was able to visit their location recently and threw a leg over both the large and xlarge frames. The first thing I noticed was what felt like a nice compact top tube that had me nice and upright like my JonesPlus and Pugsley are setup. Very impressed by the fit and now trying to figure out how to acquire one

    I wondered if someone would chime in on Lenz. One of the few that hasn't followed the herd and gone crazy long in the cockpit.

    Which one are you after?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by LBIkid View Post
    I tried the search function, but couldn't find a whole lot.

    I've been riding 29er HTs for years now, but getting older and am looking to try a FS setup. Along with the "getting older" comes a shift from the now-popular "long and low" to the much less popular "short and high", which is what I'm looking for.

    In a nutshell, I'm looking for suggestions for a FS, short-travel, shorter reach 29er. I ride more mellow XC trails that are sometimes strewn with roots and rocks, so I don't need a long-travel bike. Maybe even something more slanted to all-day bikepacking-type riding?

    Thanks!
    I think I saw a discussion about a dual suspension Salsa that was intended to function as a bike-packing rig: it may have been the Pony Rustler.
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  10. #10
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    Probably the Behemoth in the XL, I'm 6' so its a little big, but I prefer the longer wheelbase and standover clearance was still very good (better than my other bikes even). But the fatillac was a nice ride as well. Probably one of the companies where I could ride M/L/XL easily depending on how I wanted the bike to feel underneath me.
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  11. #11
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    Oops... this didn't quote the previously mentioned Salsa Dual Suspension Bikepacking bike.... --> Probably the deadwood sus. Which I do have, and it is a nice bike, it just isn't for me, so I'm selling it at a big loss. So OP, if your interested in a Large....
    Deflated - buy parts to sell parts to buy more parts.. bikes are my drug of choice

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Rides Bikes View Post
    Oops... this didn't quote the previously mentioned Salsa Dual Suspension Bikepacking bike.... --> Probably the deadwood sus. Which I do have, and it is a nice bike, it just isn't for me, so I'm selling it at a big loss. So OP, if your interested in a Large....
    Maybe that works, too. But this is what I was thinking of.

    Salsa Pony Rustler Review, Dumb Down - BIKEPACKING.com

    Just FYI, now that I'm looking, the Salsa Deadwood looks closer to your(OP's) description than the Pony Rustler.
    Last edited by Muirenn; 2 Weeks Ago at 12:57 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Check out the Pivot Mach 429 Trail (not the new Trail 429). Short reach (by modern standards) and 130/116 travel F/R. Since Pivot introduced the new Trail 429 most shops are selling the Mach 429 Trail at pretty steep discounts. I demoed one when I was looking for a new bike recently. I liked it (especially how well it pedaled) but it was too short for me personally.
    Patrick

  14. #14
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    Another recommendation for Lenz.

    Aside from having the geo you want, the bike just has a special feel that I haven't found in any carbon bike I've owned.

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    A lot of great suggestions already...something to look at is a bike with a ETT that fits but has a slacker Seat tube angle. 72-73į will be close to what you want.

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    If you're interested I have my OG Ripley for sale. Exactly what you're looking for.
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  17. #17
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    you are probably not looking for a shorter reach but a shorter top tube. Look at the pole evolink 131. If you want it really short you can size down and still have pretty good reach.

  18. #18
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    The Tallboy is shorterish travel, e.g., 120mm, and Santa cruz has been more conservative in their geometry tweaks. They may have the fit that you prefer.


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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by LBIkid View Post
    I tried the search function, but couldn't find a whole lot.

    I've been riding 29er HTs for years now, but getting older and am looking to try a FS setup. Along with the "getting older" comes a shift from the now-popular "long and low" to the much less popular "short and high", which is what I'm looking for.

    In a nutshell, I'm looking for suggestions for a FS, short-travel, shorter reach 29er. I ride more mellow XC trails that are sometimes strewn with roots and rocks, so I don't need a long-travel bike. Maybe even something more slanted to all-day bikepacking-type riding?

    Thanks!
    If you don't mind used, Look at the Ibis Ripley OG and the Pivot Mach 429C/SL. Both should meet your needs and nice used examples can be found a great prices.

  20. #20
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    I just want to throw it out there that you should try one of these long/low/slack bikes. I think you'll find that Long and Low don't actually feel like long/low. The extra steep seat tubes mean that you are more forward on the bike for a given reach measurement. This also centers your weight between the wheels which loads the front tire more which makes a long wheel base bike maneuver like a bike with a much shorter wheel base.

    I'm by no means saying that some of hte bikes on the market that have gone to the fringes of long/low are for everyone and every body type... but don't discredit some of the newer geo bikes without throwing a leg over one. Now more then ever is it true that the numbers do not tell the whole story.

  21. #21
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    2019 Specialized Stumpjumper ST

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoaD009 View Post
    2019 Specialized Stumpjumper ST
    Not trying to derail this thread into an all-out geometry discussion, but...

    Is 435mm on a medium and 455 on a large considered "short" for reach now? That seems pretty much in line with the "longer" trend to me. For comparison, a medium Yeti SB4.5 (which has a seat tube length closer to a large SJ than a medium one) has a reach of 421. A large Mach 429T has a reach of 423, large Ripley LS has 428.

    If 455 on a large is short, than my Trek Fuel EX (450mm reach on the 18.5, which is Trek's "between medium and large" size) is long, which I personally wouldn't categorize it as, I'd say its about average.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoaD009 View Post
    2019 Specialized Stumpjumper ST
    You think a 2019 SJ is old school geo?
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjames12 View Post
    Not trying to derail this thread into an all-out geometry discussion, but...

    Is 435mm on a medium and 455 on a large considered "short" for reach now? That seems pretty much in line with the "longer" trend to me. For comparison, a medium Yeti SB4.5 (which has a seat tube length closer to a large SJ than a medium one) has a reach of 421. A large Mach 429T has a reach of 423, large Ripley LS has 428.

    If 455 on a large is short, than my Trek Fuel EX (450mm reach on the 18.5, which is Trek's "between medium and large" size) is long, which I personally wouldn't categorize it as, I'd say its about average.
    You can no longer consider reach in a vacuum. The ripley LS has a shorter reach because it has a slacker effective seat tube angle. If you review TTH or effective top tube for these bikes, you'll see that they are all fairly similar (within reason).

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoaD009 View Post
    2019 Specialized Stumpjumper ST
    He dosnt need that much travel either

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimusprime View Post
    You can no longer consider reach in a vacuum. The ripley LS has a shorter reach because it has a slacker effective seat tube angle. If you review TTH or effective top tube for these bikes, you'll see that they are all fairly similar (within reason).
    I'm not saying anything should be viewed in a vacuum. Just pointing out that I don't think 455 in a size large (a large that is comparable to a lot of brands mediums) is short in the reach department, which is what the OP was asking about. Same thing with the Pole Evolink suggested earlier...I mean the reach on a S of that thing is 450mm!
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  27. #27
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    Just try to find an XC bike from 2-3 years ago. Then add a modern short stem.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimusprime View Post
    You can no longer consider reach in a vacuum. The ripley LS has a shorter reach because it has a slacker effective seat tube angle. If you review TTH or effective top tube for these bikes, you'll see that they are all fairly similar (within reason).
    A steeper steat tube isn't a cure all for longer reaches.
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  29. #29
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    Cube's bikes are still older-school geo, and reasonably priced.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjames12 View Post
    I'm not saying anything should be viewed in a vacuum. Just pointing out that I don't think 455 in a size large (a large that is comparable to a lot of brands mediums) is short in the reach department, which is what the OP was asking about. Same thing with the Pole Evolink suggested earlier...I mean the reach on a S of that thing is 450mm!
    I agree that it's not short in the reach department. But the op wanted "short and high". He uses the term reach, but I would imagine he wants a more upright seated position, which reach does not adress. a small evolink has the same effective top tube, or a little bit shorter than the 429 trail if adjusted for stack. At the same time the evolink has a higher stack, and a reach that would not make it feel like a kids bike when standing, if the op is taller than 170cm. That would give the op a very upright seated position, and the bike would be pretty decent standing on the pedals. But yeah, if it really is a short reach bike the op wants, then the evolink, and many other bikes will not be the bike to get.

  31. #31
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    Based on the OPs wants i agree Lentz is a good option if a new bike is wanted. There's some bikes that can be found new built a few years ago that would be great.

  32. #32
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    Agreed; I donít think OP understands modern geometry, but thatís OK, even some of the most avid racers donít. Low helps stability, Long (top tube) is just to eliminate the old-school long stem, and improve handling.

    Youíre actually faster on a longer bike because it allows you to lean more confidently, which is the essence of turning for everything but switchbacks.


    Quote Originally Posted by minimusprime View Post
    I just want to throw it out there that you should try one of these long/low/slack bikes. I think you'll find that Long and Low don't actually feel like long/low. The extra steep seat tubes mean that you are more forward on the bike for a given reach measurement. This also centers your weight between the wheels which loads the front tire more which makes a long wheel base bike maneuver like a bike with a much shorter wheel base.

    I'm by no means saying that some of hte bikes on the market that have gone to the fringes of long/low are for everyone and every body type... but don't discredit some of the newer geo bikes without throwing a leg over one. Now more then ever is it true that the numbers do not tell the whole story.



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  33. #33
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    OP, determine the minimum stack height and seat tube length you need. These are the numbers where you can run into problems. If you run a dropper, the seat tube length should be resolvable by choosing a very long post. But stack height on some bikes (e.g. Ripley LS) can be lacking on the larger sizes. I ruled out the Ripley LS b/c of that and went with a Mach 429 Trail. Riser bars/stems/spacers can only help so much.

    Not mentioned: the last couple years (2016-2017?) of the Salsa Horsethief (a Pony Rustler spec'd for 29"), or maybe Salsa Spearfish (but shortish stack). I thought the 2017 Horsethief GX1 had a smart spec. Long seat tube too. The cancelled Yeti ASR is another, but stack is not high.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by chomxxo View Post
    Agreed; I donít think OP understands modern geometry, but thatís OK, even some of the most avid racers donít. Low helps stability, Long (top tube) is just to eliminate the old-school long stem, and improve handling.

    Youíre actually faster on a longer bike because it allows you to lean more confidently, which is the essence of turning for everything but switchbacks.
    I don't think you understand that not everybody cares about all-out speed. Low increases pedal strikes and decreases maneuverability. This isn't always desirable. Better handling is a subjective term that varies from trail to trail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    I don't think you understand that not everybody cares about all-out speed. Low increases pedal strikes and decreases maneuverability. This isn't always desirable. Better handling is a subjective term that varies from trail to trail.
    This, why does everything think everyone wants a bike designed for out west. Long, low and slack isn't the end all be all of mountain biking.

    Just because you don't like doesn't mean you don't understand it.
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    I think a Giant Anthem might suit you.
    I too need a short bike to suit my torso and enjoy a high BB.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    This, why does everything think everyone wants a bike designed for out west. Long, low and slack isn't the end all be all of mountain biking.

    Just because you don't like doesn't mean you don't understand it.
    This, sometimes people know what they want. And its ok if its different from what you like.

  38. #38
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    Low bb increases maneuverability....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    Low bb increases maneuverability....
    Come ride a bunch of the log overs we have, then we can talk about what it increases.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    Low bb increases maneuverability....
    Low BB is good for a single turn, higher is better for back and forth manuvers. Like S turns at the expense of stability.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Come ride a bunch of the log overs we have, then we can talk about what it increases.
    Haha, up north of you Im peddling when others are ratcheting alomst the whole trail.

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    I am willing to tell a secret.
    I am not god.
    OK my opinions are:
    i stay away from droppers because their value is highly questionable.
    Same for 12 speeds with T dropping like flies.
    Same for low BB.
    Oh and same for BS.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    This, sometimes people know what they want. And its ok if its different from what you like.
    Yup. I also don't understand why people think the OP "doesn't understand modern geometry" or "think he means ETT length" when he specifically asked for shorter reach. Why are so many coming in here assuming OP doesn't know what he/she is talking about and that they know better?

    Granted, it doesn't look like the OP has come back here to clarify what he wants...but what is wrong with assuming someone means reach when they say reach?
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  44. #44
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    Among current bikes, the Niner Jet9 would definitely be on my short list. Healthy stack, geo isn't too racy, reach has grown but is still a bit shorter than trail bikes, choice of frame material.
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  45. #45
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    Thanks for all the replies and healthy banter. There are some good suggestions on here that I plan to follow up on.

    With regard to my desire for short reach, I do understand what that means and was specific with my choice of words, though also understand that reach is only one component of fit. The bikes that I have found myself most comfortable on are higher stack, shorter reach, shorter ETT bikes. Someone earlier made a comparison to feeling like a kid on a bmx bike while standing up on a short reach bike. That actually IS something I'm looking for - though I'm not sure it's achievable in the current crop of FS bikes. I know I don't like the 29er frames that I've had where I feel overly stretched out and forward-leaning while standing. I prefer a rearward bias, and have loved my Jeff Jones for this reason. Where I ride, we don't have alot of steep or long uphills, so the ability to get over the front wheel on climbs is not a necessity.

    Again, I appreciate the suggestions!
    Enjoy the ride!

  46. #46
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    You can always get a longer dropper and size down.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LBIkid View Post
    Someone earlier made a comparison to feeling like a kid on a bmx bike while standing up on a short reach bike. That actually IS something I'm looking for - though I'm not sure it's achievable in the current crop of FS bikes. I know I don't like the 29er frames that I've had where I feel overly stretched out and forward-leaning while standing. I prefer a rearward bias, and have loved my Jeff Jones for this reason. Where I ride, we don't have alot of steep or long uphills, so the ability to get over the front wheel on climbs is not a necessity.
    I have a Jones Plus myself, and setup my Pugsley somewhat similar to it.
    Recently I did go to Lenz, their place is about an hour from me, so I got a chance to have some short rides on them. The way you sit up in the bike with a very neutral body position was what I immediately noticed and was extremely comfortable, even on the XL (which I ended up buying a frame the other day used). I would suggest reaching out to them and talk about positioning/geometry. Nick was pretty helpful, and when we were talking about those things, he brought up actually Devin's BMX background and how they setup the bikes traditionally to work with a specific arm position. I didn't catch all of it because my 2 year old was trying to fall into his fish pond, but when I read your above comment I thought you may be able to relate to that well. Give them a call or send an email. If you need contact info, another member messaged it to me, and I would happily send it to you as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    Low BB is good for a single turn, higher is better for back and forth manuvers. Like S turns at the expense of stability.
    That doesn't make any sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    That doesn't make any sense.
    Actually, it does. Low bottom brackets increase stability, which is the opposite of maneuverability. You feel more "in" the bike than on the bike.

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    Lower bb means shorter distance cg to the ground; the lower rider moves less relative to the contact patch during a lean. He has less distance to travel side to side during changes of direction.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    Lower bb means shorter distance cg to the ground; the lower rider moves less relative to the contact patch during a lean. He has less distance to travel side to side during changes of direction.
    This makes no sense.
    Long legs = high saddle
    period
    do they come with shorter legs?

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