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  1. #1
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    Scalpel 29er rumor: true? Anyone got more info?

    I was in my LBS yesterday drooling over the 2011 Flash Carbon 29ers, and the manager casually mentioned that Cannondale will be launching a full-suspension Scalpel 29er in the spring of 2011. He said it WILL have a pivot near the BB, rather than the flexible chainstays on the 26er version. Anyone else heard this? Any more info? I'm considering holding out on the Flash purchase based on this rumor....

  2. #2
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    I would consider it.

  3. #3
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    Was told from Cannondale they will be making a Scalpel 29 as a 2011 1/2 model.

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    Yes, next year they are ready to indroduce. They re just not sure what RS they will go with or if there will be multiple offerings.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird
    I was in my LBS yesterday drooling over the 2011 Flash Carbon 29ers, and the manager casually mentioned that Cannondale will be launching a full-suspension Scalpel 29er in the spring of 2011. He said it WILL have a pivot near the BB, rather than the flexible chainstays on the 26er version. Anyone else heard this? Any more info? I'm considering holding out on the Flash purchase based on this rumor....
    I am curious where he heard this. The whole point of the Scalpel is not having that pivot and the mass savings etc. It could be with the longer stays of the 29er, it would not be strong enough since the Scalpel's chainstays are basically cantilevers.
    Anyway, very cool to hear they are finally doing this, and I would definitely wait this out especially if you are interested in racing.

  6. #6
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    I heard that it will happen. There is a good chance I may sell my Tallboy.

  7. #7
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    Really...

    Since the advent of 29er popularity I've said the Scalpel platform would make for an ideal 29er xc bike.

    I'm hoping they keep the pivotless chainstays as otherwise it will be just another high maintenance, overweight FS 29er.

    For example, look at the Tallboy. Are you really going to feel the benefits of an advanced suspension design over the distance of 3 to 4" of travel (3" after sag)? Doubt it. Yet, you still get all the hassle, slop, and weight of a pile of pivots.

    I'm a believer in short travel, simple suspension. Long travel, advanced suspension.

    A 29er Scalpel with 4" of pivotless chainstay travel would be the ticket.

  8. #8
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    if the big c was smart they would intro a 29er line with versions of a scalpel, prophet and gemini!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J
    Since the advent of 29er popularity I've said the Scalpel platform would make for an ideal 29er xc bike.

    I'm hoping they keep the pivotless chainstays as otherwise it will be just another high maintenance, overweight FS 29er.

    For example, look at the Tallboy. Are you really going to feel the benefits of an advanced suspension design over the distance of 3 to 4" of travel (3" after sag)? Doubt it. Yet, you still get all the hassle, slop, and weight of a pile of pivots.

    I'm a believer in short travel, simple suspension. Long travel, advanced suspension.

    A 29er Scalpel with 4" of pivotless chainstay travel would be the ticket.
    I agree with you Miker J except I do think the Scalpel suspension is advanced. My opinion in the matter is that no matter how much travel, any bike will benifit from handlebar mounted damping control. My Cdale Rush for instance has 140mm in the rear and I can adjust it to out of the saddle stiff to downhill plush in less than 1/2 a second and it has been a very successful racing machine as well as a very sweet technical terrain bicycle. But, for a super lightweight racing 29er, the Scalpel would be the ticket. Definitely not as versitile as the Rush, but very race capable in the rough when lap times are the only concern. Personally, I don't see another racing bike that would touch it or the 26er version for that matter. What wheel size you choose depending on the terrain and or rider.

  10. #10
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    Pivotless Scalpel 29" with Syntace X142 rear axle....that's the way to go for good rear triangle stiffness while keeping the traditional suspension system of the Scalpel

  11. #11
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    Yep...

    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet
    I agree with you Miker J except I do think the Scalpel suspension is advanced. My opinion in the matter is that no matter how much travel, any bike will benifit from handlebar mounted damping control. My Cdale Rush for instance has 140mm in the rear and I can adjust it to out of the saddle stiff to downhill plush in less than 1/2 a second and it has been a very successful racing machine as well as a very sweet technical terrain bicycle. But, for a super lightweight racing 29er, the Scalpel would be the ticket. Definitely not as versitile as the Rush, but very race capable in the rough when lap times are the only concern. Personally, I don't see another racing bike that would touch it or the 26er version for that matter. What wheel size you choose depending on the terrain and or rider.
    Agree on the handlebar lockout for a xc race bike.

    When I say "advanced" its a bit tongue-in-cheek".

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J
    Since the advent of 29er popularity I've said the Scalpel platform would make for an ideal 29er xc bike.

    I'm hoping they keep the pivotless chainstays as otherwise it will be just another high maintenance, overweight FS 29er.

    For example, look at the Tallboy. Are you really going to feel the benefits of an advanced suspension design over the distance of 3 to 4" of travel (3" after sag)? Doubt it. Yet, you still get all the hassle, slop, and weight of a pile of pivots.

    I'm a believer in short travel, simple suspension. Long travel, advanced suspension.

    A 29er Scalpel with 4" of pivotless chainstay travel would be the ticket.
    Second that sentiment. Think 4" of travel is reasonable with that design?
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  13. #13
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    Don't know....

    Quote Originally Posted by mtroy
    Second that sentiment. Think 4" of travel is reasonable with that design?

    Isn't the current Scalpel 4" out back? While I've not ridden one I've not heard any complaints.

  14. #14
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    My guess is that Cannondale, like usual, wants to get it perfect before they release it.

  15. #15
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    I used to get a swelling in my pants at the mention of a Scalpel 29er, I'd see rumors of prototypes on here, other sites and from reps. But each model year would come and go and there would be no Scalpel 29er, so I got a Leviathan to suit my lightweight XC needs. That was great for a while, but then Specialized got on the ball and made the Epic 29er, so I got that and no longer care if they make the Scalpel 29er. I really don't care now that the S-Works Epic 29er exists. The advantages I saw that were exclusive to Cannondale (Lefty, BB30, oversized headtube, etc.) have all been addressed or improved by Specialized. Plus, the Scalpel scheduled to come out next year isn't going to be the 29er version of the 26er XC race weapon, its likely to be more like a 29er RZ120-lite. I hope I'm wrong, but from what I've heard about it, it doesn't sound like it.

  16. #16
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    Really....

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Boy
    I used to get a swelling in my pants at the mention of a Scalpel 29er, I'd see rumors of prototypes on here, other sites and from reps. But each model year would come and go and there would be no Scalpel 29er, so I got a Leviathan to suit my lightweight XC needs. That was great for a while, but then Specialized got on the ball and made the Epic 29er, so I got that and no longer care if they make the Scalpel 29er. I really don't care now that the S-Works Epic 29er exists. The advantages I saw that were exclusive to Cannondale (Lefty, BB30, oversized headtube, etc.) have all been addressed or improved by Specialized. Plus, the Scalpel scheduled to come out next year isn't going to be the 29er version of the 26er XC race weapon, its likely to be more like a 29er RZ120-lite. I hope I'm wrong, but from what I've heard about it, it doesn't sound like it.
    Next year I'm likely going to get back into xc racing and was hoping C'dale was there with a 29er Scalple. Locally I have a Spec rep who is good to work with so may end up going that route. (Or despite what I mentioned in the above post, a Tallboy.)

    The main thing that has me wanting a C'dale is the Lefty - for its weight, that fork is great. Also, I like pivotless stays. Less hassle, squeaks and creaks.

    What is it that won you over on the Epic?

    Thanks.

  17. #17
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    however Cannondale is late !!

    Specialized with its Epic carbon 29er will be a best seller , eating a big slice of market of hi-end light 29er bikes


    in the 29er set up , Lefty is still a benchmark , maybe this thing will help a middle season model ...

    i wait for this Scalpel... in september the 2011 26" model will be mine , but ready to be reselled when 29" is landing

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J
    Next year I'm likely going to get back into xc racing and was hoping C'dale was there with a 29er Scalple. Locally I have a Spec rep who is good to work with so may end up going that route. (Or despite what I mentioned in the above post, a Tallboy.)

    The main thing that has me wanting a C'dale is the Lefty - for its weight, that fork is great. Also, I like pivotless stays. Less hassle, squeaks and creaks.

    What is it that won you over on the Epic?

    Thanks.
    I had a DLR2 Carbon 110 Lefty and a PBR Carbon 130 Lefty on my Leviathan. The weight and the torsional stiffness were great, but I was resetting the bearings pretty often. Also, the Specialized has the OS28 endcaps/fork legs which help a great deal with torsional stiffness and a custom carbon crown/steerer to help get the weight closer to a Lefty.
    The biggest factor however, was the Brain. Some people don't like it (I suspect they didn't have it setup properly), but for me it sealed the deal.
    Now, with the S-Works, you've got a carbon frame, more travel, Brain fork, carbon rims, x142 rear axle, etc.
    I don't see Cannondale trumping that anytime soon (from what I've heard).

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Boy
    I don't see Cannondale trumping that anytime soon (from what I've heard).

    Awww, come on, you can't just leave us hangin' like that! What have you heard? I gather that you don't believe the Scalpel 29er will be an XC-race focused rig like the 26er. Care to elaborate? (Please?)

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird
    Awww, come on, you can't just leave us hangin' like that! What have you heard? I gather that you don't believe the Scalpel 29er will be an XC-race focused rig like the 26er. Care to elaborate? (Please?)
    Nothing more than what has been mentioned earlier in this thread. I heard its going to have a pivot and be closer to a lightweight RZ120 than the 29er version of the current 26er Scalpel. Based on this, I don't think "ultimate XC race machine" is their goal.

  21. #21
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    For 2011 the Scalpel 26" travel has been reduced to 80mm. The original design was a little less than that (2.7"), but took tons of podiums (Sauser riding it helped).

    I think going back to 80mm from 100mm is wise; the 2008 design was known for being a little noodly with nothing but Propedal to prevent that. It's an elegant softtail design and 3" should be perfect, especially for a 29er.


    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J
    Isn't the current Scalpel 4" out back? While I've not ridden one I've not heard any complaints.

  22. #22
    mnt bike laws of physics
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Boy
    I heard its going to have a pivot and be closer to a lightweight RZ120 than the 29er version of the current 26er Scalpel.
    Not sure where you heard this, but this is good news for me. I'de rather have a little more travel for ultimate speed than be super light weight for "ultimate racing". I'm sure if Cdale has anything to do with it, it will still be super light weight in its class....light enough to race and certainly lighter than my Sultan.

  23. #23
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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that pivotless suspensions keep the speed of the compression of the shock the same through the travel, and all the new suspension designs are designed with the pivot so that the rate of shock travel is different depending on where the suspension is in it's travel. This makes it easier to keep the shock working nicely in the first inch and the last inch.

  24. #24
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    A pivotless full suspension frame is what many call a softtail. Cannondale pushed that theory to the limit with its 4" of pivotless suspension, and I think its move back to 3" of travel acknowledged that; it's back in the short-travel realm where softtails do their thing well.

    To answer your assertion with a question, when you pull the arrow back on a (non-compound) bow, does the stress of the draw stay the same or does it get harder? And that's a nice feeling to have on the trail. Progressive suspension has some very attractive characteristics without a lot of fancy engineering like DW-Link.

    Quote Originally Posted by gtluke
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that pivotless suspensions keep the speed of the compression of the shock the same through the travel, and all the new suspension designs are designed with the pivot so that the rate of shock travel is different depending on where the suspension is in it's travel. This makes it easier to keep the shock working nicely in the first inch and the last inch.

  25. #25
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    light or not light as stock versions, will be not hard to have a 8,9 kg sull suspension 29er

    but i guess can be done a built close to 8 kg too

  26. #26
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    A scalpel is a race proven heritage. Would surprise me if they didn't incorporate the pivotless chain stay. Granted, we have all been bagging on C-Dale for various reasons (including myself) but the bikes they made for 2011 at the release in Utah are top shape stuff. Granted, we all wanted the scalpel 29er right now but I feel confident that they will get it right before releasing to the public. Rather that, than say a Hi Fi 29er which snapped on a customer of mine I ride/race with 3 times this year.
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  27. #27
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    Any updates on a Scapel 29er? The 2011 26" Scalpels look like great values. Should I hold off on a Flash 29er waiting for this bike to become a reality?

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    Nothing new at Interbike. Did someone ask for an AM bike with two shocks? Over/Uber-mountain, this is the best you can come up with?

    Cannondale is lllllllllllaaaaame for not building a bike that would sell like hotcakes and put them at the vanguard of industry press again.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by pizzaflyer
    Any updates on a Scapel 29er? The 2011 26" Scalpels look like great values. Should I hold off on a Flash 29er waiting for this bike to become a reality?
    FWIW - just this past Sunday my local Cannondale dealer told me they scrapped the 29er Scalpel. I also had a buddy scouting the Cannondale booth at Interbile and he said he did not see or hear a peep about it.

    Bummer huh?

  30. #30
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    tallies

    Until C-dale starts making bikes for people over 6' 3" I'm on the sidelines

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastwood9
    Until C-dale starts making bikes for people over 6' 3" I'm on the sidelines
    I hear you there beastwood.
    On another note, my dealer told me Cannondale did not even go to Interbike.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet
    I hear you there beastwood.
    On another note, my dealer told me Cannondale did not even go to Interbike.
    Were they at the dirt demo?

    I know they havent done the Inside portion of I-bike for many years as they do a special event on their own. However, last time I was at I-bike, they did participate in Dirt Demo day.

    They are not the only mkanufacturer that works this way either, as Trek did pretty much the same thing.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird
    I was in my LBS yesterday drooling over the 2011 Flash Carbon 29ers, ....
    Sizes and models?

    It's a p!55er when you have a bike on order and hear that they are sitting on shop floors elsewhere

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiRyder
    Were they at the dirt demo?

    I know they havent done the Inside portion of I-bike for many years as they do a special event on their own. However, last time I was at I-bike, they did participate in Dirt Demo day.
    I alost certain they were at outerbike...not sure about the inner. Just calling BS on Stahr_Nut.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet
    I alost certain they were at outerbike...not sure about the inner. Just calling BS on Stahr_Nut.
    Sorry, bad wording on my part and good catch our your's. Not knowing Cannondale doesn't attend Interbike I sent my buddy who was going an e-mail asking him to stop by the Cannondale booth. When he told me he didn't see anything I didn't realize that meant there was nothing at all there from Cannondale to see. Although he did mention before he went that his direct contact would not be there, I didn't know that meant no one from cannondale goes.

  36. #36
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    Any more news on Scalpel 29'er?

    Has anyone heard anything more on this?

  37. #37
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    Scalpel 29 idea scrapped.

    According to a C'Dale insider, the Scalpel 29 idea has been scrapped due to the leverage ratio issues regarding the flexing stays and damper rates which they couldn't get worked out to their satisfaction.

    However..............

    There will be a FS design, probably XC oriented, less than 120mm travel, new design, carbon, coming in 2012.
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  38. #38
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    Garbage, I say, but hey, it's their loss more than mine.

    There are at least two 29er softtails with 4" of travel. They're from boutique shops, Funk and Generic. There are at least 3 29er softtails with 1-1.5" of travel. From a company with Cannondale's resources, and a proven design already, it's not black magic to make a slightly larger wheel work.

    Come on. Again, their loss, big time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    According to a C'Dale insider, the Scalpel 29 idea has been scrapped due to the leverage ratio issues regarding the flexing stays and damper rates which they couldn't get worked out to their satisfaction.

    However..............

    There will be a FS design, probably XC oriented, less than 120mm travel, new design, carbon, coming in 2012.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    According to a C'Dale insider, the Scalpel 29 idea has been scrapped due to the leverage ratio issues regarding the flexing stays and damper rates which they couldn't get worked out to their satisfaction.

    However..............

    There will be a FS design, probably XC oriented, less than 120mm travel, new design, carbon, coming in 2012.
    Stoked!
    I'm sure it will be a good one. Thanks and keep us posted on any more details Ted.

  40. #40
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    I like the idea of a carbon 29er with Lefty and whatever else they can come up with. Hopefully, it will not be twitchy geometry but fast and somewhat stable.

  41. #41
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    oh boy another single pivot or single w/chainstay pivot- crap those things are everywhere.


    oh well, back to a hardtail or dw 4" travel non-canondale..their loss

  42. #42
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    Bummer. Was really hoping for a Cannondale 29er Scalpel. Surprising to think it wouldn't work out. More reason to lean towards a Moots with their titanium pivot point. I think that would be the closest feel to what I envision a 29er Scalpel feeling like.
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  43. #43
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    any news ???

  44. #44
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    The Scalpel being their "Flagship" model, they probably said it would be scrapped so that people would stop hounding them for information. I do see it in their interest to build a Scalpel model and a RZ trail model. They are entering the game late, and already lost out of quite a bit of revenue thus far. Last I have heard which was a about a months ago is that there will be a release of a FS 29er..but no explanation of what, but based on sales, and what the racers actually ride..it should be a Scalpel...they are still winning races, a lot of them!
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  45. #45
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    Where we at with this...Sea Otter?

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by sherpa2000
    Where we at with this...Sea Otter?
    Probably not, rumors would probably leak out sometime in the summer if it is true. Then maybe a teaser like what they did the the Over Mountain category right before the 2012 pre-order season starts. Of course this is all my guess base upon how the jekyll and claymore were released. I first heard some slight rumors from the Norcal rep at the Tour of California, then a few months later the teasers were released.

  47. #47
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    maybey the new owners of c'dale are holding the funds back for reaserch and devolpment? i mean look who owns them now look at the 2011 29er's pretty bland on the paint sceme's white and black with alittle red and blue? a far cry from 2010 my local cannondale dealer seems to think cannondale is headed down the bad path. i hope not but im just sayin.c'dale may be on a tight leash

  48. #48
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    cannondale is sooo missing on sales without a carbon light weight suspension 29er.
    Out riding, leave a message

  49. #49
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    I'm not holding my breath either. I'm hearing this FS 29er Cannondale rumors for several years now and nothing happened so far.

    Can't understand for the life of me why Cannondale is so late to the game. Even Santa Cruz, a company that said not to long ago they never make a 29er, has a FS 29er now.
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by roscoe1971
    maybey the new owners of c'dale are holding the funds back for reaserch and devolpment? i mean look who owns them now look at the 2011 29er's pretty bland on the paint sceme's white and black with alittle red and blue? a far cry from 2010 my local cannondale dealer seems to think cannondale is headed down the bad path. i hope not but im just sayin.c'dale may be on a tight leash
    I think you're the only person I've ever heard say that.

    If the puke green 2010 29er F2 is your idea of good looking, I think it's safe to say that you're in the minority.

    By all accounts, Cannondale has been taking orders and selling their Flash series of bikes faster than they can make them.

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