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  1. #1
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    Santa Cruz Tallboy LT or Stumpjumper FSR Expert EVO 29

    Hi

    I am looking for a new bike. Which one should I choose:

    1. The new Tallboy LT or
    2. Stumpjumper FSR Expert EVO 29

    Appreciate any thoughts that makes my decision a bit easier

  2. #2
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    The stumpy is awfully nice. But that SC is nice too. I'm sure that was really helpful.

  3. #3
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    LOVING my EVO!!! ...goes over everything!
    I haven't been on the newer VPP2's but I never really settled in on my original Nomad's first gen VPP. I've tried many different suspension formats over the years and keep coming back to the Horst 4-bar. For reference, I'm riding the rock and root strewn trails of New England.

    Price difference?

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    What bike do you have now? You're probably about to get a whole lot of different opinions on VPP2 and FSR/horst link.

    They're both good looking bikes. The main difference I see between them is that the SJ EVO has a slacker headangle (pretty sure it's 68 deg vs 69.5 on the SC) which in theory would make the evo a bit more stable at speed and on steep stuff. There are other subtle geometry differences but the best way to decide would be to test ride them.

    Is there a reason you've narrowed the choice to those two bikes? I'd also be considering, in no particular order, the Transition Bandit, Niner WFO, Turner Sultan, Kona Satori, Intense Tracer 29 and Norco Shinobi.

  5. #5
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    There's really only one answer to this question. They're both great bikes. If you're going to spend that much on a bike, you absolutely MUST go ride them both. Then get the one that feels best to you (not me, not morphosity, not BMJ and not anyone else on here).

    The only way you'll go wrong is to get one that doesn't suit you.

  6. #6
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    Which one has the shortest chainstays and squats the least when climbing?

  7. #7
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    Definitely get the Stumpjumper. I just ordered a Tallboy LT and the less people buying them, the sooner I get mine

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh View Post
    There's really only one answer to this question. They're both great bikes. If you're going to spend that much on a bike, you absolutely MUST go ride them both. Then get the one that feels best to you (not me, not morphosity, not BMJ and not anyone else on here).

    The only way you'll go wrong is to get one that doesn't suit you.
    +1 you need to ride them.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by morphosity View Post
    What bike do you have now? You're probably about to get a whole lot of different opinions on VPP2 and FSR/horst link.

    They're both good looking bikes. The main difference I see between them is that the SJ EVO has a slacker headangle (pretty sure it's 68 deg vs 69.5 on the SC) which in theory would make the evo a bit more stable at speed and on steep stuff. There are other subtle geometry differences but the best way to decide would be to test ride them.

    Is there a reason you've narrowed the choice to those two bikes? I'd also be considering, in no particular order, the Transition Bandit, Niner WFO, Turner Sultan, Kona Satori, Intense Tracer 29 and Norco Shinobi.
    Agree. The Norco is a hidden jewel. Try as many bikes as you can. The bike design is more important than the suspension design. Find a bike that fits you, your terrain and your ridding terrain.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by morphosity View Post
    What bike do you have now? You're probably about to get a whole lot of different opinions on VPP2 and FSR/horst link.

    They're both good looking bikes. The main difference I see between them is that the SJ EVO has a slacker headangle (pretty sure it's 68 deg vs 69.5 on the SC) which in theory would make the evo a bit more stable at speed and on steep stuff. There are other subtle geometry differences but the best way to decide would be to test ride them.

    Is there a reason you've narrowed the choice to those two bikes? I'd also be considering, in no particular order, the Transition Bandit, Niner WFO, Turner Sultan, Kona Satori, Intense Tracer 29 and Norco Shinobi.
    Hi

    Thanks for all your replies, interesting to read all the different comments!

    I am planning a bike trip to Colorado this summer (living in Switzerland). My idea is to preorder a bike so that I can pick it up upon my arrival in Denver....

    At the moment I ride a HT 29er, but I am really looking for something with more travel. I narrowed the bikes down to the EVO and the Tallboy LT, but there is no chance I can test ride ether the EVO nor the Tallboy LT here in Switzerland....
    I once had the chance to ride the Tallboy 100mm and it was awesome, so I thought more travel on a bike like the Tallboy must suit me perfectly.

    Both the EVO and the Tallboy LT are in the same price range... I think I go for the Tallboy LT, cause I really like the brand. Not sure thought if its worth to spend extra money in the carbon version?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountlynx View Post
    I think I go for the Tallboy LT, cause I really like the brand.
    Your opinion of the TBLT based on no riding experience is just as good as the people you are asking...who haven't ridden it either.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj View Post
    Your opinion of the TBLT based on no riding experience is just as good as the people you are asking...who haven't ridden it either.
    You are absolutely right, I only know the 100mm Tallboy and I really liked it. As there is no chance for me to testride one in advance, I just asume it will be right bike for me.....

  13. #13
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    There is no try........Yoda

    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Agree. The Norco is a hidden jewel. Try as many bikes as you can. The bike design is more important than the suspension design. Find a bike that fits you, your terrain and your ridding terrain.
    Just head down to your LBS to try all the Santa Cruz Tall Boy LT, Niner RDO, Kona, Transition Bandit 29, and Norco demos they have in your size.
    That will take 2 minutes.

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    I can't find half of those bikes built to ride in New England. I'm guessing in Switzerland it would be just about impossible to demo them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by car_nut View Post
    I can't find half of those bikes built to ride in New England. I'm guessing in Switzerland it would be just about impossible to demo them.
    Either you're new to the internet, or your sarcasm meter is broken.

    :wink:

    For me, a key aspect of any new FS bike decision is durability and ease of maintenance, esp of the pivots. My vp2 nomad has been outstanding in that dept.

    But geo and fit are primary aspects.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj View Post
    Your opinion of the TBLT based on no riding experience is just as good as the people you are asking...who haven't ridden it either.
    Well said.

    I often buy bikes without riding because there is just no demo's, But i am prepaired to dump a new bike if I don't like it.

    If there is any way to demo a bike you must take it.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountlynx View Post
    Hi

    Thanks for all your replies, interesting to read all the different comments!

    I am planning a bike trip to Colorado this summer (living in Switzerland). My idea is to preorder a bike so that I can pick it up upon my arrival in Denver....
    Where in CO? I bet you could arrange to test the bikes once you get here. Call some shops where you'll be going and see what you can work out with them. IF they know you're going to buy one or the other, they'd probably be willing to order both in (assuming you can find a shop that sells both brands) for you to test.

    You can also check with multiple shops; just be up front. You want to buy a bike, but will be testing both (or even others) and buying the one that best suits you. Assuming you're a regular size (M, L, XL), those bikes will sell one way or another.

  18. #18
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    Is anyone even going to be able to get their hands on a Tallboy LT anytime soon. I waited 4 months for my regular Tallboy. Good luck with that.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    Either you're new to the internet, or your sarcasm meter is broken.

    :wink:
    Doh! Yes, in reading that again I definitely need my meter serviced. I'll abstain from posting until it gets a healthy dose of coffee.

  20. #20
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    Hi, I have the Spec FSR STJ 29 Comp and love it, sometimes wish I bought the EVO model.

    Check out the video on the Spec website for the 29 FSR Expert EVO:
    4 ways to ride..................Sauser and friends riding in the Swiss Alps.

    Enjoy

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    Hi.
    I'm currently riding Tallboy in carbon which it is a great bike, but thinking about LT as you do. I was decided between Epic 29er and Tallboy but when I ride both(on Outerbike 2010) Epic seems to me too race oriented.
    Why don't you reschedule your vacatin time on October when you can demo all kinds of great bikes LT included on Moab's 2012 Outerbike Outerbike - Schedule
    I was there when its begin and highly recommend to anybody who wants to buy a new bike.
    It isn't that far from Denver and you will enjoy the scenery and trails around Moab you might know from mtb magazines.
    I'm not sure about the dates but there is another bike show in Las Vegas. It is sooner than Outerbike.
    BTW I'm from Europe too.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountlynx View Post
    Hi

    Thanks for all your replies, interesting to read all the different comments!

    I am planning a bike trip to Colorado this summer (living in Switzerland). My idea is to preorder a bike so that I can pick it up upon my arrival in Denver....

    At the moment I ride a HT 29er, but I am really looking for something with more travel. I narrowed the bikes down to the EVO and the Tallboy LT, but there is no chance I can test ride ether the EVO nor the Tallboy LT here in Switzerland....
    I once had the chance to ride the Tallboy 100mm and it was awesome, so I thought more travel on a bike like the Tallboy must suit me perfectly.

    Both the EVO and the Tallboy LT are in the same price range... I think I go for the Tallboy LT, cause I really like the brand. Not sure thought if its worth to spend extra money in the carbon version?

    Well if you wait til tomorrow I can tell you what I think. I have been on my FSR 29er Comp since November. I have a TBLT demo bike in the garage now and going out for a ride tomorrow to see how it compares.

    The head angle on my FSR should be close to the Evo since I put a 34 Fox 140mm on the front.
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  23. #23
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    I thought I was totally sold on a Tallboy LT, but after riding both I wound up with a Stumpy EVO 29er. The geometry and feel was the primary factor for me. To me the Tallboy felt more XC oriented and the EVO suited my riding style better. I felt a more in the bike feel, with a lower feeling center of gravity on the Stumpy. The Tallboy LT rode like a bigger bike to me, the Stumpy felt most like my 26ers in terms of handling. The Stumpy is a very neutral handling bike, that is very comfortable in the air.
    You really can't go wrong either way.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by morandi View Post
    I thought I was totally sold on a Tallboy LT, but after riding both I wound up with a Stumpy EVO 29er. The geometry and feel was the primary factor for me. To me the Tallboy felt more XC oriented and the EVO suited my riding style better. I felt a more in the bike feel, with a lower feeling center of gravity on the Stumpy. The Tallboy LT rode like a bigger bike to me, the Stumpy felt most like my 26ers in terms of handling. The Stumpy is a very neutral handling bike, that is very comfortable in the air.
    You really can't go wrong either way.
    The LT seems XC-oriented? That is a pretty interressting statement, regarding a 140mm 29er bike :-) I've tried the Tallboy carbon and ridden a few rides on the SJ Comp version. The SJ was a lot of fun right out of the box, and a hoot on my local gnarly root and rocks trails. The TB was more (than the SJ) XC oriented with a 120mm fork, but a relaxed ride (not racy) with smooth suspension. Hard to believe the the TB LTC should be XC, but please elaborate some more about the experience. I like the idea of a snappy bike, so please tell more!

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    Quote Originally Posted by simenf View Post
    The LT seems XC-oriented? That is a pretty interressting statement, regarding a 140mm 29er bike :-) I've tried the Tallboy carbon and ridden a few rides on the SJ Comp version. The SJ was a lot of fun right out of the box, and a hoot on my local gnarly root and rocks trails. The TB was more (than the SJ) XC oriented with a 120mm fork, but a relaxed ride (not racy) with smooth suspension. Hard to believe the the TB LTC should be XC, but please elaborate some more about the experience. I like the idea of a snappy bike, so please tell more!
    What I meant was not so much that the Tallboy LT is an XC bike, but it feels like thats where its roots are. I think the Tallboy LT would appeal to a rider coming from a more XC bent that wants something with longer travel, where to me at least the Stumpy EVO would appeal to someone coming from a DH/All mountain background that wants to get on big wheels. Don't get me wrong either bike is more than capable of wringing it out, I am just splitting hairs here.
    To me the biggest difference, was that the Tallboy felt like a bigger bike when I was riding it, I noticed the big wheels more than on the Stumpy, which felt more manuverable and flickable.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerbob.com View Post
    Just head down to your LBS to try all the Santa Cruz Tall Boy LT, Niner RDO, Kona, Transition Bandit 29, and Norco demos they have in your size.
    That will take 2 minutes.
    indeed...the idiocy of the virtually theoretical advice of "gee, try every bike first and oh...try it with all the components you would put on yourself...and on the exact trails you will ride, etc..." is retarded. its nearly never possible to demo a lot of these bikes let alone, demo all the bikes you are considering and of course never doable with the bike configured precisely as you will do it yourself or at least have identically equipped bikes for you to compare back to back on the same trail etc.

    the closest thing to this was the interbike tscheezy reviews

    in summary, the specialized and definitely not anything carbon from either brand

  27. #27
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    tough choice. i own a stumpy fsr 29 and demoed a lt. i would have to give a slight edge to the lt in just about everything. imo its gonna come down to fsr vs. vpp2.

  28. #28
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    So if you want an opinion of a average rider here it is.

    As I said, been on my SJ FSR Comp 29 for a few months. I added a Fox 34 140mm on the front.

    Took an Al TBLT R am demo bike out for a ride on my everyday trail today.
    I was trying not to like it because my SJ isn't that old and I don't feel like spending the cash to switch.

    That being said, I'll be ordering a TBLT.

    It felt like I had gotten on a smaller bike. It felt more maneuverable, the vpp2 climbed better in full open than my FSR does on Propedal.

    When I was climbing, the front end felt lighter on the TBLT, but I think the cause was a good thing. IT felt like more of my power was making to the rear wheel, thus it was lifting the front. I think on the FSR, the power was getting lost in the squat/bob thus it wasn't as easy to lift the front.

    Like I said, I'm not a reviewer or what I'd say a great rider, but for me the difference was enough that I'll be selling the SJ FSR

    I will say I'd really like to ride a Niner, but nowhere around has one to demo.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by morandi View Post
    What I meant was not so much that the Tallboy LT is an XC bike, but it feels like thats where its roots are. I think the Tallboy LT would appeal to a rider coming from a more XC bent that wants something with longer travel...
    I'm more of a DH/AM guy and I went for the TB LTc, and I'm so glad I did. Holy cow, I literally just rode it for the first time and it's insanely good. Coming off a 2012 Blur LT I felt right at home, except the TB was just rolling so much faster on the downhills. I felt like I could take rougher lines without worrying about killing momentum - it was a really eye opening experience.

    No experience with the Specialized, a good fried has one and is loving it/killing it on that thing.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post
    I'm more of a DH/AM guy and I went for the TB LTc, and I'm so glad I did. Holy cow, I literally just rode it for the first time and it's insanely good. Coming off a 2012 Blur LT I felt right at home, except the TB was just rolling so much faster on the downhills. I felt like I could take rougher lines without worrying about killing momentum - it was a really eye opening experience.

    No experience with the Specialized, a good fried has one and is loving it/killing it on that thing.
    Like I said splitting hairs. Both are obviously very similar bikes.

  31. #31
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    A couple things you have to consider.....

    For the gentleman coming from Switzerland and OP The Specialized has a lot of proprietary parts on it, and brain servicing can be a real nuisance...There is also PF30, a specific headset, a specific shock. All of this MUST be looked after by a Specialized dealer and can cost a bit of money and take excessive time.

    The Tallboy LT uses no proprietary parts with the exception of the suspension hardware..but so does everyone else. It uses a standard BB, standard headset, readily available shock..which is only specific by the size and stroke. So the chances of getting things fixed or replaced in a timely manner are much better.

    I would personally prefer a VPP over FSR suspension, but the Stumpjumper 29 is a great bike, and the EVO is even an improvement over that..but like Specialized's motto: "Innovate or die" they like to change and improve every year...they don't just get it right and stick with it. Since the original Tallboy came out..they've introduced an aluminum version, and additional color options...thats it. I suspect the Tallboy LT to follow the same trend, so it won't leave you wanting to trading in the "new and improved" version next year.

    Also, at this time of the year, Specialized is usually sold out of their hot models, the SJ 29 Evo being one of them, so finding one in your size may not be possible. Somethings to consider.. but like I said, the Stumpjumper FSR 29 EVO and the regular one are great bikes, and I don't think you will be dissatisfied with either once its in your possession.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubdryver View Post
    A couple things you have to consider.....

    For the gentleman coming from Switzerland and OP The Specialized has a lot of proprietary parts on it, and brain servicing can be a real nuisance...There is also PF30, a specific headset, a specific shock. All of this MUST be looked after by a Specialized dealer and can cost a bit of money and take excessive time.

    The Tallboy LT uses no proprietary parts with the exception of the suspension hardware..but so does everyone else. It uses a standard BB, standard headset, readily available shock..which is only specific by the size and stroke. So the chances of getting things fixed or replaced in a timely manner are much better.

    I would personally prefer a VPP over FSR suspension, but the Stumpjumper 29 is a great bike, and the EVO is even an improvement over that..but like Specialized's motto: "Innovate or die" they like to change and improve every year...they don't just get it right and stick with it. Since the original Tallboy came out..they've introduced an aluminum version, and additional color options...thats it. I suspect the Tallboy LT to follow the same trend, so it won't leave you wanting to trading in the "new and improved" version next year.

    Also, at this time of the year, Specialized is usually sold out of their hot models, the SJ 29 Evo being one of them, so finding one in your size may not be possible. Somethings to consider.. but like I said, the Stumpjumper FSR 29 EVO and the regular one are great bikes, and I don't think you will be dissatisfied with either once its in your possession.
    Despite being a happy owner of a Stumpy 29EVO, I think this makes some really good points in favor of the Santa Cruz.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubdryver View Post
    A couple things you have to consider.....

    For the gentleman coming from Switzerland and OP The Specialized has a lot of proprietary parts on it, and brain servicing can be a real nuisance...There is also PF30, a specific headset, a specific shock. All of this MUST be looked after by a Specialized dealer and can cost a bit of money and take excessive time.

    The Tallboy LT uses no proprietary parts with the exception of the suspension hardware..but so does everyone else. It uses a standard BB, standard headset, readily available shock..which is only specific by the size and stroke. So the chances of getting things fixed or replaced in a timely manner are much better.

    I would personally prefer a VPP over FSR suspension, but the Stumpjumper 29 is a great bike, and the EVO is even an improvement over that..but like Specialized's motto: "Innovate or die" they like to change and improve every year...they don't just get it right and stick with it. Since the original Tallboy came out..they've introduced an aluminum version, and additional color options...thats it. I suspect the Tallboy LT to follow the same trend, so it won't leave you wanting to trading in the "new and improved" version next year.

    Also, at this time of the year, Specialized is usually sold out of their hot models, the SJ 29 Evo being one of them, so finding one in your size may not be possible. Somethings to consider.. but like I said, the Stumpjumper FSR 29 EVO and the regular one are great bikes, and I don't think you will be dissatisfied with either once its in your possession.
    Quote Originally Posted by morandi View Post
    Despite being a happy owner of a Stumpy 29EVO, I think this makes some really good points in favor of the Santa Cruz.

    Ironically, looking into upgrading my rear shock on the FSR is what got me to ride a TBLT. I totally agree with all that mentioned. 1
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  34. #34
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    TwoTone

    Coincidentally, I was talking with a guy that builds frames this morning, and used a FSR rear triangle/links from an Epic. Based on our conversation, and what he had to do, you may have to find a compatible upper that the shock connects to that can retrofit and allow you to connect the shock of your choice to it. His setup did not contain a Brain as he stated that it cannot be bought at all, not even as a warranty purchase, but he did manage to mount an RP23 onto the link that he was using. The problem is that you have to find one that is compatible with the SJ that will connect up to your seatstays and seat tube. With it being such a new model..that may not be possible outside of custom.

    I think the advantage he has is that he manipulated the frame design around the requirements of the suspension...I wish you luck.

    If that is not an option for you, and you are left with no choice.....Merry Christmas!
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahColorado View Post
    I'm more of a DH/AM guy and I went for the TB LTc, and I'm so glad I did. Holy cow, I literally just rode it for the first time and it's insanely good. Coming off a 2012 Blur LT I felt right at home, except the TB was just rolling so much faster on the downhills. I felt like I could take rougher lines without worrying about killing momentum - it was a really eye opening experience.

    No experience with the Specialized, a good fried has one and is loving it/killing it on that thing.
    I can echo every bit of Noah's statement, including the Blur LTc comment! Where I demo'd the TBLTc was some pretty chundery and also steep! It was an eye-opener on the climbs, and since it wasn't my bike, I kinda turned it loose on the down. And it was just WOW!.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubdryver View Post
    TwoTone

    Coincidentally, I was talking with a guy that builds frames this morning, and used a FSR rear triangle/links from an Epic. Based on our conversation, and what he had to do, you may have to find a compatible upper that the shock connects to that can retrofit and allow you to connect the shock of your choice to it. His setup did not contain a Brain as he stated that it cannot be bought at all, not even as a warranty purchase, but he did manage to mount an RP23 onto the link that he was using. The problem is that you have to find one that is compatible with the SJ that will connect up to your seatstays and seat tube. With it being such a new model..that may not be possible outside of custom.

    I think the advantage he has is that he manipulated the frame design around the requirements of the suspension...I wish you luck.

    If that is not an option for you, and you are left with no choice.....Merry Christmas!
    Thanks, but I'll be ordering my TBLT soon, just trying to work out which one I want.
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  37. #37
    Trail Junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Thanks, but I'll be ordering my TBLT soon, just trying to work out which one I want.
    Oh I'm all for that! I've been riding Santa Cruz bikes since '99, coincidentally about the same time I stopped riding Specialized bikes ending with my '99 Stumpjumper Pro.
    Ibis Ripley LS
    Intense Spider 29 C
    Cervelo S2
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    Spech Tricross Expert
    Raleigh RX 1.0

  38. #38
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    LT is a great ride. I got the Ram kit and am now shopping for hop up parts. Particularly the brakes and shifters. Makes the SPX kit worth it in hindsight.
    Tallboy LT

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    So if you want an opinion of a average rider here it is.

    As I said, been on my SJ FSR Comp 29 for a few months. I added a Fox 34 140mm on the front.

    Took an Al TBLT R am demo bike out for a ride on my everyday trail today.
    I was trying not to like it because my SJ isn't that old and I don't feel like spending the cash to switch.

    It felt like I had gotten on a smaller bike. It felt more maneuverable, the vpp2 climbed better in full open than my FSR does on Propedal.

    When I was climbing, the front end felt lighter on the TBLT, but I think the cause was a good thing. IT felt like more of my power was making to the rear wheel, thus it was lifting the front. I think on the FSR, the power was getting lost in the squat/bob thus it wasn't as easy to lift the front.
    This post is a great example of what morandi was referring to. The Santa Cruz climbs more efficiently than the Specialized, but Stumpjumper is noticeably more plush on the descents. If I had to chose one for a cross country race, it would be without question the LT. For downhill I would chose the EVO, for trail riding my choice would depend on if i wanted to accentuate my strength (climbing/descending) or put a band aid on my weakness.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intense29 View Post
    LT is a great ride. I got the Ram kit and am now shopping for hop up parts. Particularly the brakes and shifters. Makes the SPX kit worth it in hindsight.
    That's the decision I'm trying to make right now.

    I know SC is trying to hit a price point, but I think not including I-Spec on a $4300 bike is being cheap. My 3k SJ came with matchmakers on it.
    Tantrum incoming
    Ibis Mojo 3
    Carver 420 TI

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    That's the decision I'm trying to make right now.

    I know SC is trying to hit a price point, but I think not including I-Spec on a $4300 bike is being cheap. My 3k SJ came with matchmakers on it.
    The SPX kit is worth it. You get so much more. Depending on your LBS, make them an offer for the SPX kit of $3800 and see if they go for it. They just might. A bike that is MSRP $5299 in the SPX kit has more wiggle room to deal with. My local dealer went for it with me, I said I'd do it for $3900 and his exact word was "done" and I was. Makes me wonder if he would've gone for $3800 but ah, I'm happy. The more expensive the MSRP is the more room they have to deal with you. All they can say is no.

  42. #42
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    After a year

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    The SPX kit is worth it. You get so much more. Depending on your LBS, make them an offer for the SPX kit of $3800 and see if they go for it. They just might. A bike that is MSRP $5299 in the SPX kit has more wiggle room to deal with. My local dealer went for it with me, I said I'd do it for $3900 and his exact word was "done" and I was. Makes me wonder if he would've gone for $3800 but ah, I'm happy. The more expensive the MSRP is the more room they have to deal with you. All they can say is no.
    So after a year since anyone last commented ,
    Which one did you end up buying?
    Tried the Scott and Santa Cruz 650b
    Was not to impressed a lot of travel ,and a lot of weight

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