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  1. #1
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    S-Works Renegade vs. Small Block 8 (29's)

    I've got Renegades on my Stumpy HT. Would Small block 8's roll any better? Quieter on pavement?

    thx

    bob

  2. #2
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    Yes they would just made the switch. But I am going to go back to a S-works Captian for the rear. As the SB8 just wasn't aggressive enough for me.

  3. #3
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    weight difference?

    thx

  4. #4
    Cars Are Evil
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    Also check out the Maxxis Ikon

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vermont29er
    Also check out the Maxxis Ikon

    Looks pretty aggressive! Looking for a smooth, quiet rolling tire.

    thx

    bob

  6. #6
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    I have no experience but some people on here say that the Ikon has less rolling resistance than the SB8.

  7. #7
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    I have both. SB8 is a better all-arounder where considerable pavement is involved. I've run the SB8 for years and it is a consistently good all arounder when its not muddy or soft. I'd be wary of further wearing the already short knobs on the Renegade by riding it for any period of time on the pavement. That being said, the Renegade is FAST and probably more versatile off-road as it can better handle loamy trails and will shed mud much better than the tightly spaced knobs of the SB8. I was very impressed with the Renegade (Pro version) and will definitely choose the uber-light S-Works version for a race tire. Note there is very likely some durability differences between Pro and S-Works versions and the S-Works has very thin side-walls and thin rubber throughout the entire casing. Both seem to mount very well as tubeless on non-UST rims (American Classic, DT, etc.).
    Cheers!

  8. #8
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    Kinda off topic..I shreaded up two renegades in the past two weeks, sidewalls ripped wide open. Went to the specialized fast trak. 100 grams heavier than the renegade, came in at 670 grams in the package. Anyone have a weight of the renegade?

  9. #9
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    I will buy your renegade's if you would sell them....great race tire for up here, and we can only get the 'control' version.

    THX

  10. #10
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    IMO the small block 8s are trash for a 29er tire. They don't have much bite, they pack up at the sight of mud, and the sidewalls are thin. Also not good for setting up tubeless if that's what you are planning.

    I'd take a look at the maxxis aspen, crossmark, or ikon. The aspen should be the fastest roller (and has some side knob bite), crossmark should offer a bit more grip but still roll very fast, I don't have any experience with the ikon but it should still be a fast roller.
    Last edited by tiflow_21; 05-11-2011 at 11:15 AM.

  11. #11
    mnoutain bkie rdier
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelgtr
    Looks pretty aggressive! Looking for a smooth, quiet rolling tire.

    thx

    bob

    crossmark perhaps? i didn't like it, but was pretty fast..

  12. #12
    1up
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk
    crossmark perhaps? i didn't like it, but was pretty fast..
    the crossmarks didnt feel fast to me. give the geax barro race tire a try if you want a fast rolling tire with a little more grip than the renegades

  13. #13
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    I am running the maxxis aspen in the front and a bontrager xdx in the rear. I just rode them for the first time last night and I can't say that I was too happy with the bontrager but was w/ pretty happy with the aspen. the aspen in front felt plenty fast and was pretty predictable in the corners. As I am still getting used to it, haven't really hit it really hard but I am satisfied for now. The XDX felt good, but I guess i wanted a little more traction in the back. It seemed to give out pretty easy in the corners and I backed off more than I would have liked to because of it. It had ample traction for climbing in the loose and for descending @ 30psi (I am 170). If I was a better, more controlled rider I would like them a lot more - but I am not skilled enough to benefit from what this has to offer.
    I am going to take a look at the 29-3 from bontrager for a rear tire - I think that I will like that a little more, but who knows.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelgtr
    Looks pretty aggressive! Looking for a smooth, quiet rolling tire.

    thx

    bob
    Vulpine's

  15. #15
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    SB8s get some seriously mixed reviews.

    From experience I know that:
    Racing Ralphs
    Fast Trak LK's
    Aspens
    & Crossmarks are fast.

    I've heard that:
    Crow/Raven
    Karma 1.9
    Vulpine
    Nano Raptor
    Furious Fred
    & Ikon are all supposed to be fast.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by prcharlie
    Vulpine's

    I had those (26er) on my olh Hardrock and loved them. Now that I have a real (light) Bike, I didn't want to get too heavy, The Renegades are super light!


    bob

  17. #17
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    I am running Renegades right now. S-Works 29 x 1.95. They are great for dry, hard singletrack, but when climbing if there is anything loose, watch out!! I have them at 30 PSI-stan's tubeless on my singlespeed and have been riding them since early april. No flats in about 200 miles of riding.

    I have Crossmarks on my geared bike and I'm amazed at how much better they hook up. I'm not sure that weight difference is justified given the lack of traction!

  18. #18
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    I was running a SB8 for a short time as a rear tire and hated it. I have a set of S-Works Renegades for my race wheels and have found them to be a great tire. I prefer them over the Racing Ralphs that are on my training wheels now. I have also run Ikons and I feel the Ikons are a good balance between the S-Works Renegades and the Ralphs- Ikons are grippier than the Renegades and have a similar volume and ride to the Ralphs. Best of both worlds IMO. When the Ralphs are dead the Ikons will go on my training rims and when the Renegades are done another set of Ikons will go on the race rims. YMMV.
    Jesse
    Ritchey P650b

  19. #19
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    Interesting to see people's air pressures. I am running my Renegade Sworks 29x1.95's at 27 psi in the rear and a Fastrak LK Control 29x2.0 or Captain Sworks i 29x2.0 in the front at 25 psi. I also run a Stan's Raven in the rear on my training wheels 29x2.2 at 27 in the rear. Don't like the Raven as it just doesn't have much grip even when set at lower pressures. I won't run it on the front's at all.

    175 lbs with no rim strikes and it provides better traction with the lower pressure.
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  20. #20
    Back of the pack fat guy
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    No love for the Fast Trak LK? I've run a whole bunch of 29'er tires and the Fast Trak LK is my choice for a combination of light, fast rolling, good grip and ease of setting up tubeless. I've got 'em both front and rear on my 29'er hardtail, set up tubeless on XT wheels, about 30 psi front and 35 rear (I prefer higher pressures, but I'm sure they'd work fine lower.) A whole lot cheaper than Schwalbes too. The Small Block Fail is about the most worthless tire I've ever used. You'd be better off just riding directly on the rim.
    Last edited by Earthpig; 06-09-2011 at 12:57 PM.

  21. #21
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    I was very impressed by the Fast Trak LK. That's a good all around tire. BTW I weigh 195 so 30 PSI is about the lowest I'm comfortable going. No rim strikes here either.

  22. #22
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    ... and if we just ... Tire Weight Question

    29er Tire weight questions? Check this handy spreadsheet Meltingfeather rolled up!

    29er Tire Weight Spreadsheet

    Still rockin the IKONS tubeless front and rear no problems, one minor incident with cactus but Stans did the trick.

    Cheers , Leverick
    Leverick

    The Older I Get, the Faster I Was...........

  23. #23
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    Renegade vs Fast Tak LK

    Anyone have both?

    My renegade showing wear ( a lot of pavement) after 150 miles o so. The little nubs are wearing.

    Is the Fast trak more durable? Quieter on pavement, etc?

    thx

    bob

  24. #24
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    i prefer the renegade of the sb8. seems a good amount faster, gets rid of the mud a little better, more traction than the sb8 also. if i were to do a decent amount of street time i would probably get the sb8 though cause like someone else said i can't imagine the renegade lasting very long on pavement.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by adumb View Post
    i prefer the renegade of the sb8. seems a good amount faster, gets rid of the mud a little better, more traction than the sb8 also. if i were to do a decent amount of street time i would probably get the sb8 though cause like someone else said i can't imagine the renegade lasting very long on pavement.
    How about the fast trak?

    bob

  26. #26
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    sorry haven't tried the fast trak yet so i can't comment on it.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelgtr View Post
    Anyone have both?

    My renegade showing wear ( a lot of pavement) after 150 miles o so. The little nubs are wearing.

    Is the Fast trak more durable? Quieter on pavement, etc?

    thx

    bob
    I have ran the S-works fast traks for 3 or 4 years, I keep trying new tires, but always go back to the fast traks. They roll fast, are light 540g, great traction, and wear well.
    "RIDE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT"

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1strongone1 View Post
    I have ran the S-works fast traks for 3 or 4 years, I keep trying new tires, but always go back to the fast traks. They roll fast, are light 540g, great traction, and wear well.

    What's the difference between these?

    http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/...jsp?spid=57263


    http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/...jsp?spid=57666


    Did you ever run Renegades?

    thx
    bob

  29. #29
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    To the OP are you riding almost all pavement with bike path mixed in? If so Big Apples are your answer. I have the 2.35 and I think they are great.

    However if you are riding pavement to singletrack then the sb8's are hard to beat...maybe a slant 6

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by stinkyto View Post
    To the OP are you riding almost all pavement with bike path mixed in? If so Big Apples are your answer. I have the 2.35 and I think they are great.

    However if you are riding pavement to singletrack then the sb8's are hard to beat...maybe a slant 6
    Pretty much paved paths, some fire trails. Aren't the apples really heavy?


    thx

    bob

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelgtr View Post
    Pretty much paved paths, some fire trails. Aren't the apples really heavy?


    thx

    bob
    depends on if you think ~900g is heavy.

    stan's raven?
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    depends on if you think ~900g is heavy.
    Oh my!


  33. #33
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    The renegade is an AMAZING tire.I had a sb8 on and the renegade is WAY faster.In summer i run them front and rear and in winter i change out just the front to a aspen.This is the first winter i have left it on the back and have been way surprised.Grips pretty well in the mud and cleans easy.If you looking for a race tire that will give you the fastest time look no further.If you not worried about time or speed go for anything else.To answer your question changing to a sb8 will be a backward step imo.

  34. #34
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    I run SB8s on one 29er. There is a noticeable whine on hard pavement. I run Fat Franks on another for hard pavement. No noise. Heavier than the SB8s I dont mind when they get rolling.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by chillie View Post
    The renegade is an AMAZING tire.I had a sb8 on and the renegade is WAY faster.In summer i run them front and rear and in winter i change out just the front to a aspen.This is the first winter i have left it on the back and have been way surprised.Grips pretty well in the mud and cleans easy.If you looking for a race tire that will give you the fastest time look no further.If you not worried about time or speed go for anything else.To answer your question changing to a sb8 will be a backward step imo.
    chillie

    Have you tried the fast traks? see post # 28.

    thx

    bob

  36. #36
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    Just switched out my rear Aspen for a SB8. Anyone who has set up the Aspen tubeless knows it is ridiculously hard compared to the SB8. I spent 1 hour getting the Aspen to take with soap and water and every trick in the book. It finally took and the Aspens are quite fast at any pressure. They are an awesome tire, but when I rolled over a hard curb at speed it split the tire. I switched to the SB8 and it sealed up tubeless in 30 sec. The tire feels significantly more durable and is faster on concrete as long as the pressures are high...like 50 PSI. Otherwise it feels slower off road and loses traction quick in anything less than bone dry. I like it for durability purposes, but will try something different next time.

  37. #37
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    Rode fast tracks for years,not any more.I agree that renegades wont last long on tarmac but thats what i got a road bike for.The specialized guys do most of thier tire testing close to my local trail and have watched them on a few occasions.Testing involves mtb on wind trainer with power tap on bike running at a set speed so the guys can see the watts needed to run different tires at the same speed.You will be shocked.Renegade hands down.Just see what tires the guys are running at most of the WC lately and some of them are quite technical.I find the aspen on the front for winter has more side grip than the fast track and cleans mud easier.

  38. #38
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    I just purchased a pair of 29er 1.95 Renegades (non s-works) and just took them for a spin. I will agree that they are not much fun in mud, but clear quickly. I did notice they spit up more sand than my fast tracks did (non s-works). I was running tubes in my fast tracks, so my results may be squed regarding rolling resistance, but the Renegade feels like a much faster tire. Good grip, even though they seamed to slip more on slighly damp roots.

    My first go at tubeless, and they seated within 30 sec of me trying (air compressor). I did break the bead once, but it sealed up right away and took air fine.

    What is the difference between S-works and non S-works Renegades besides weight?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    What is the difference between S-works and non S-works Renegades besides weight?
    I'm curious about this also, going to try the SW, but I think only difference is the thickness of the sidewalls. Tread compound should be the same but someone can confirm that. Hoping I won't tear them up too quickly.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by chillie View Post
    The renegade is an AMAZING tire.I had a sb8 on and the renegade is WAY faster.In summer i run them front and rear and in winter i change out just the front to a aspen.This is the first winter i have left it on the back and have been way surprised.Grips pretty well in the mud and cleans easy.If you looking for a race tire that will give you the fastest time look no further.If you not worried about time or speed go for anything else.To answer your question changing to a sb8 will be a backward step imo.

    I've been running the Fast Trak LK's for a month and will be going back to the Renegades. I swear I could fell the speed difference even tho it's just 90 grams/tire!


    bob

  41. #41
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    Ikons

    Quote Originally Posted by leverick View Post
    29er Tire weight questions? Check this handy spreadsheet Meltingfeather rolled up!

    29er Tire Weight Spreadsheet

    Still rockin the IKONS tubeless front and rear no problems, one minor incident with cactus but Stans did the trick.

    Cheers , Leverick


    So are you running the Exo or non-exo? I'd like to go with the lighter but will they tear easy?
    thaniks

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelgtr View Post
    How about the fast trak?

    bob
    Mine have been holding up rather well. Running a Fast Trak on the back, with a lot of tarmac to the trail, trail riding and then tarmac back home. Still going strong!

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by aohammer View Post
    I'm curious about this also, going to try the SW, but I think only difference is the thickness of the sidewalls. Tread compound should be the same but someone can confirm that. Hoping I won't tear them up too quickly.
    My understanding is that it is the thickness of the sidewalls. The S-Works are the race-oriented tyres, with thin sidewalls. Whereas the controls (ie non S-Works) have thicker sidewalls. You take a weight penalty, but have better protection. Both Cristoph Sauser and Burry Stander were running the control versions in the Cape Epic this year, due to the increased reliability and robustness of them.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalom View Post
    My understanding is that it is the thickness of the sidewalls. The S-Works are the race-oriented tyres, with thin sidewalls. Whereas the controls (ie non S-Works) have thicker sidewalls. You take a weight penalty, but have better protection. Both Cristoph Sauser and Burry Stander were running the control versions in the Cape Epic this year, due to the increased reliability and robustness of them.
    Makes sense Cristoph and Burry using the controls for epics. I'll try the SWs first on our local XC course, has rocky descents and bumpy singletracks with rocks sticking out. Will first use lower pressures 25-30 and we'll see. I'm hoping lower pressures will protect better, anyone disagree? Btw I'm 150 lbs on a Stumpy HT.

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