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  1. #1
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    Ride Comparison: Lenz Behemoth vs Turner Sultan

    *Cross Post with Turner Forum*

    Looking at adding a trail-oriented FS 29er to my quiver, replacing my Ells Evolve. Evolve is a great bike but I feel the head angle is too steep on the downs.

    So, I know the obvious differences in geo numbers between the Behemoth and Sultan, most notably the 'Moths shorter chain stays. But what I'm really looking for is input from someone that's put some miles on both of these frames.

    What characteristics made you like one over the other?

    Build quality?

    Additional small features like cable routing, ease of front dérailleur installation, etc.?

    Thanks in advance for your replies.

  2. #2
    Pablo68
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    Hope Lenz vs Turner

    Hola, was checking out your post and figured I'd register to give you a response.

    I currently own both bikes and dig both. I have owned the Lenz for approximately 2.75 years and the Turner 1.5 years (2009 production year purchased in 2010). Over the course of time the Lenz has been morfed to a 6" travel coil sprung "BeBox" (Behemoth w/Lunch Box rockers, only feasible because Devin was kind enough to build me a custom geo w/custom cable routing.)

    In short, I enjoy the Lenz a bit more, simply because of it's versatility. Amazing climber and an incredible descender!! Keep in mind, it is not in the original 5" travel mode. At 5" it did not have as plush/bottomless feel as the Turner had @ 4.7". Devin hit something magical when he squeezed out that extra inch of travel. Had it to do over again, I would have just ordered the Lunch Box right out of the gates. It was unfortunately not in production when I ordered from Devin.

    Shortly after receiving and building the Lenz, Turner produced the DW version of the Sultan and I had an opportunity to demo it. My immediate response was WOW! It was a more supple ride that simply erased small bump chatter. Something the Lenz didn't seem to accomplish as well in the 5" mode. It also has a slightly lower bottom bracket

    All that said, (and I know I said a lot) they are both fantastic steeds, with great quality and design. The Lenz is the more laterally stable of the two frames and in general the more burly. It can lean towards the "free ride" side with out hesitation. The Turner has a slightly lower bottom bracket and can lean more towards the xc side if that's what you're looking for but also builds into a nice "all mountain" steed.

    Hope that helps a little, happy to offer further perspective if you'd like.

    Grace n Peace

    Pab

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    Thanks for the reply Pab.

    Could you comment more on the descending capabilities of the Sultan compared to the Behemoth (when the 'Moth was at 5") please?

    The biggest reason I'm looking to "upgrade" to either one of these frames is for increased stability on steep technical descents. Also, between the two, which would you say would be more suited for all-day epics from a comfort standpoint?

  4. #4
    T , V , & K Rider
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    Yeah , that is a nice review......just to add info make note that the newer DW Sultans have a slacker HA and a 44 mm head tube vs the 1.125 " of the 09 DW Sultan ( which I've been riding for the last three seasons) ! Not to mention the 2012 version has a 142 x 12 mm rear and a slightly bent down tube to make clearance for most all piggyback shock options as well ! TIG.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIGMAN View Post
    Yeah , that is a nice review......just to add info make note that the newer DW Sultans have a slacker HA and a 44 mm head tube vs the 1.125 " of the 09 DW Sultan ( which I've been riding for the last three seasons) ! Not to mention the 2012 version has a 142 x 12 mm rear and a slightly bent down tube to make clearance for most all piggyback shock options as well ! TIG.
    Right. Got all of that. The new features intro'd on the '12 models now give the Sultan everything I'm looking for except...

    Chain stay length - 17.375" on the Lenz, 18.2" on the Sultan

    150mm rear spacing on the Lenz vs 142mm rear on the Sultan.

    So I'm looking at possibly stiffer rear end and quicker, more nimble handling characteristics due to the shorter CS on the Behemoth. Maybe the Sultan would be more comfortable on an all-day epic? Maybe not...

    At the end of the day, I'm probably being too nitpicky at this point right?

  6. #6
    Pablo68
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    Hey again, wow, tough questions!

    I have done all day epics on both bikes and both are really "cozy". I have the Lenz built tanky @ aprx. 35.5lbs. and the Turner sitting around 30lbs. Having said that, I can still pedal the Lenz around all day and would have to give it the climbing advantage despite the weight. Concerning descending in 5" mode (as best as I can remember since it's been a while) I would have to come back to the lateral rigidity vs plush rear end debate.......

    I run both bikes with 20mm through axels and I would have to give the solid ride feel to the Lenz, minus a super cush rear shock stroke. It's not a bad feeling, but the rate in which it would travel through the shock stroke in 5" mode was just not as plush as the Turner. The best I could explain this would be to say it was as if the first two thirds of the stroke had a firm compression feel, and then it would suddenly open up during the last third of the stroke. I tried multiple sag, compression, rebound, pro-pedal, etc. settings and it just seemed to be a linkage rate thing. Hence the 6" magic rocker comment on my previous post.

    The Turner on the other hand, has a rear suspension with a "bottomless" feel.(cliche I know) As I eluded to in my previous post, I rode the demo right after building up the Lenz and immediately fell in love with the progression of the DW link. Where I think the Turner comes up a bit short is high speed chunky monkey stuff. I can definitely feel lateral frame flex when going hard into rough turns or baby head rock gardens. This might not be as evident with their new head tube and rear axle design, but it is what stands out to me on my steed.

    Bottom line is that they are both great bikes (imho) with great people standing behind them. Hope that helps!

    Grace n Peace,

    Pab

  7. #7
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    To the OP, I can comment on your chainstay length concerns.
    Ive been on yeti 575 for the past 3 years and loving it. Until about a year ago when I bought a used 29er frame to build up and see what the buzz was and if I even liked it. Its a Salsa Big Mama, 4" travel frame which I use a Manitou Minute 120 up front with a 20mm thru axle. After I bought it was looking at the geometry numbers and saw the chainstay was 18.5"
    Right away I told myself I'd finish building it and then sell it, those long chainstays would make it a tank in the tight stuff. And I ride tight east coast trails.
    After the first ride I was blown away. I never noticed the long stays, on the contrary I think it helps me climb the steep techy climbs even better. On my first several rides on the bike, I made climbs on the first try that I only made maybe half the times on the Yeti. I remember the Yeti always wanting to wheelie on the steep stuff. I think the longer stays keep the front end down.
    The ONLY time I have noticed the longer length is when I'm trying to ride a skinny that has a tight turn. And I'm not that great on them anyway-lol.
    A Sultan is actually the next frame I want. I doesnt get the great reviews on here for nothing.

    Tom

  8. #8
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    I've been riding the Lenz Behemoth (5" travel) since it was introduced in 2005.

    I've owned a LunchBox (6") since 2007.

    I've owned a Lenz Mammoth (also 5" travel, lighter chassis than either of the above) since last fall.

    And then back in November I got a chance to ride a 2012 DW Sultan back to back with the Mammoth, on my home trails.

    The light compression tune on the Turner feels really good--super supple to small stuff, nice ramp to bottom. It's a very different feel from either the Behemoth or the LunchBox, both of which use heavier compression on the rear damper to limit unwanted rider-induced movement.

    The thing that surprised me was that unless I used the Propedal setting on the Sultan, it was very prone to rider induced suspension actuation, aka "bob". Sit and spin lightly and it was pretty neutral feeling. Lay down the power (seated or standing) and it affected the suspension a lot. I figured I must have mis-adjusted something for this to happen on the Sultan--I've read so much about how well it isolates rider input from suspension action.

    So I spent extra time fiddling with the rear shock--changing air pressures (surprising how wide of a range can work well if you aren't uber picky) fiddling with the rebound damping, and ultimately relying on the Propedal when climbing. No biggie to flip the lever when the trail tilted up, but I always looked forward to flipping it back off for descents--that light tune felt super nice. In sum, in order for the Turner to behave appropriately both up and down, constant use of the Propedal switch was mandatory.

    The geo was a completely different story, however. There's just no way to NOT notice the added *inch* of chainstay length on the Turner. Even 1/4 inch is huge, but a full inch? Is this 2002?! I guess that's the tradeoff you have to accept for the ability to have DW sus. My $.02 is that I'd rather ride a hardtail than have to accept the truckish handling of the Sultan. Noticeable when climbing steeps, noticeable in switchbacks, most noticeable when descending steeps.

    There was definitely a bit of vagueness in the chassis--we all noticed it immediately when switching from any of the other bikes. Figured one of the pivots or even shock mounts must be loose, so we stopped and laid a wrench on every bolt on the bike--couldn't find anything. Grab the seat with one hand, grab the rear wheel with the other, and pull them apart and you could feel it--not a knock or a clunk, just an imprecise tolerance somewhere.

    The thing I was not prepared for and completely floored by: Toe overlap when descending steeps. Medium frame, Fox 120mm fork, and I wear a size 42 shoe. Really? Really??!?! I guess it must be 2002 all over again.

    Could only conclude that most who've ridden this bike and gushed over it haven't ridden much else to compare it to, or are willing to turn a blind eye to such major flaws for some reason. The sus feels great, but it'd have to pull my pants down and take care of business (daily) to accept the geo problems inherent.

    The three of us riding and swapping bikes that day were all psyched on the sus feel of the Sultan early on, but mid-way through the day, and moreso as the day wore on, we all fought to NOT have to ride it.

    For anyone comparing the Sultan to any of the Lenz bikes, I'd say the Mammoth is the closest in sus feel--really supple on small stuff, really nice ramp to bottom. Great all-day and light chunk bike. But the Mammoth has none of the geo problems or chassis inadequacies of the Sultan.

    Just my $.02.

  9. #9
    Daniel the Dog
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    Ouch! Someone had a bone to pick with Turner.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    Ouch! Someone had a bone to pick with Turner.
    I understand that that's the smallminded way you see the world, but don't lay that on me.

    If I'd had a bone to pick I'd not have praised the great sus feel.

  11. #11
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    Why aren't you adding the Intense Tracer29 to your short list of longer travel all-day 29ers? You guys are probably getting tired of hearing me gush about it, but I'm nothing short of blown away by mine. It's super plush, laterally very stiff, and "cozy".

  12. #12
    Daniel the Dog
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    Dude

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I understand that that's the smallminded way you see the world, but don't lay that on me.

    If I'd had a bone to pick I'd not have praised the great sus feel.
    You are an angry dude.

    You are a moron to jump folks when you have a business. I buy stuff but....

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    You are an angry dude.

    You are a moron to jump folks when you have a business. I buy stuff but....
    Angry? No.

    Moron? Yes, you probably are, but I think you're more likely just a garden variety tool.

    Got anything to add to the discussion at hand? If not, piss off and quit trolling for attention.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    You are an angry dude.

    You are a moron to jump folks when you have a business. I buy stuff but....
    Mike doesn't want your business.

    See above.
    Supply Side Jesusnomosist

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Cobb View Post
    Why aren't you adding the Intense Tracer29 to your short list of longer travel all-day 29ers? You guys are probably getting tired of hearing me gush about it, but I'm nothing short of blown away by mine. It's super plush, laterally very stiff, and "cozy".
    I guess I hadn't really considered it.

    It looks like it has roughly the same geo numbers and features as the Sultan - same HA, CS length with 140mm fork, etc.

    Wondering if the rear susp has some of the characteristics Mikesee pointed out on the Sultan above....

    I'm thinking a trip to the nearest Turner and Intense dealer is in order....highly doubt I'd be able to demo a Lenz, living in the midwest and all.

  16. #16
    Daniel the Dog
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    Hmm

    Quote Originally Posted by juan_speeder View Post
    Mike doesn't want your business.

    See above.
    LOL. Are you his brother or his buddy?

  17. #17
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    I've had both as well, and both had Rohloffs. I'm way more comfortable and confident on my 2011 Sultan with a Fox 34mm 140mm fork that I was on the Behemoth with a Fluid 135. IMO the Sultan climbs way better, descends way better, and is far more confidence-inspiring and comfortable than the Moth this may be due to the shorter (50mm) stem I'm running on the Sultan, plus I'm running H-bars on the Sultan and had regular (CF) bars on the Lenz. I have no problems with tight switchbacks, babyheads on the DH, or anything else. To be fair I had Flows on the Moth and have Edge AM rims on the Sultan, and that may make a difference. The Sultan is XL, the Moth was L so that all plays in too. I had the Moth from 2007-2010 and got the Sultan in 2011, so the year apart may have made a difference in what I remember, but maybe Mikesee had a bad frame or something, as mine is extremely precise, has zero toe overlap with size 47 Sidis, and is one of the most grin-inducing bikes I've ever ridden. Devin's a great guy, the Turner crew has been really good as well, so close your eyes, throw a dart, don't look back, and enjoy whichever one you get. You'll probably never use all of either bike (I know I don't and I ride pretty hard) so you should be good either way.

  18. #18
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    Do you think lenz do a carbon 29er in the future? I'm in the same delimma

  19. #19
    T , V , & K Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2xPneu View Post
    I've had both as well, and both had Rohloffs. I'm way more comfortable and confident on my 2011 Sultan with a Fox 34mm 140mm fork that I was on the Behemoth with a Fluid 135. IMO the Sultan climbs way better, descends way better, and is far more confidence-inspiring and comfortable than the Moth this may be due to the shorter (50mm) stem I'm running on the Sultan, plus I'm running H-bars on the Sultan and had regular (CF) bars on the Lenz. I have no problems with tight switchbacks, babyheads on the DH, or anything else. To be fair I had Flows on the Moth and have Edge AM rims on the Sultan, and that may make a difference. The Sultan is XL, the Moth was L so that all plays in too. I had the Moth from 2007-2010 and got the Sultan in 2011, so the year apart may have made a difference in what I remember, but maybe Mikesee had a bad frame or something, as mine is extremely precise, has zero toe overlap with size 47 Sidis, and is one of the most grin-inducing bikes I've ever ridden. Devin's a great guy, the Turner crew has been really good as well, so close your eyes, throw a dart, don't look back, and enjoy whichever one you get. You'll probably never use all of either bike (I know I don't and I ride pretty hard) so you should be good either way.
    Nice review....! TIG.

  20. #20
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    i think MC rode the 2012 Sultan and not the 2011. i think the 2012 is a bit different than the 2011.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2xPneu View Post
    I've had both as well, and both had Rohloffs. I'm way more comfortable and confident on my 2011 Sultan with a Fox 34mm 140mm fork that I was on the Behemoth with a Fluid 135.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by starre View Post
    i think MC rode the 2012 Sultan and not the 2011. i think the 2012 is a bit different than the 2011.
    2011 & 2012 Sultans have the same geometry. Changes are the rear axle goes to 142x12, downtube bend for ext resivoir shock clearance, ISCG added, and cable retention changed. I think that was it.
    Nothing to see here.

  22. #22
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    sorry, my bad, i thought the change in geometry came this year. it came as you said in 2010. thanx!

    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA View Post
    2011 & 2012 Sultans have the same geometry. Changes are the rear axle goes to 142x12, downtube bend for ext resivoir shock clearance, ISCG added, and cable retention changed. I think that was it.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2xPneu View Post
    The Sultan is XL, .... has zero toe overlap with size 47 Sidis
    MC was commenting on toe overlap on a Medium Sultan. I can't imagine it would be a problem on the larger frames.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    MC was commenting on toe overlap on a Medium Sultan. I can't imagine it would be a problem on the larger frames.
    I find this odd. I've had medium 2008, 2009, 2010 sultans and spent a day in Moab in the 2011. Never had an issue with toe overlap with the same size 42 shoe.
    Nothing to see here.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA View Post
    I find this odd.
    Agreed 100%.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSINGA View Post
    I find this odd. I've had medium 2008, 2009, 2010 sultans and spent a day in Moab in the 2011. Never had an issue with toe overlap with the same size 42 shoe.
    I have no experience with a Sultan, but have noticed toe overlap sometimes on other frames at full or near full fork compression since the front center shortens dramatically though transiently in these situations. I could be riding along just fine most of the time, then hit toe overlap at a very in-opportune time on a steep roller that nearly bottoms the fork.

    I imagine shoe type and where you put the cleat on the bottom plays into this as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    MC was commenting on toe overlap on a Medium Sultan. I can't imagine it would be a problem on the larger frames.
    I own a large '09 Sultan and wear a 45 Sidi/ 46 Shimano shoe size. To date I haven't had any toe overlap issues even going down some "interesting" descents (including FR / DH trails here and there). Riding other manufacturer's 29er's, at times I've definitely felt like there wasn't quite enough clearance clipped in on SPD's.

  28. #28
    T , V , & K Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimithng23 View Post
    At the end of the day, I'm probably being too nitpicky at this point right?

    I dunno , these bikes are relatively expensive and to get what will fit your needs best should be important to you.........that's why I think its good to be honest with what you want ! You mentioned you think shorter stays and a slacker HA would be a nice change from the frame geometry your riding now .....well then go for it ! I'm thinking the same thing except in a hard tail instead ! I' really like my 09 Sultan ( so much I'm upgrading to a 2011 version ) but there are a lot of nice FS frames out their that might offer you the geometry and features your looking for ! I'm not a brand man myself , I choose to ride what I want and could care less what others like to ride......seriously , hopefully you can try a few & go with your gut because only you know what your really looking for in a bike ! Cheers ! TIG.
    Last edited by TIGMAN; 02-28-2012 at 06:07 PM.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    I have no experience with a Sultan, but have noticed toe overlap sometimes on other frames at full or near full fork compression since the front center shortens dramatically though transiently in these situations. I could be riding along just fine most of the time, then hit toe overlap at a very in-opportune time on a steep roller that nearly bottoms the fork.

    I imagine shoe type and where you put the cleat on the bottom plays into this as well.
    My wife rides a 2011 Med. Sultan with flat pedals/fiveten shoes and has no overlap issues. I ride the same setup on a large and also have no issues whatsoever (not-even-close).


  30. #30
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    Hey CC are f-ing kidding about the stiffness of the T29? Ive eaten stiffer pasta
    bikesonburke

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete weber View Post
    Hey CC are f-ing kidding about the stiffness of the T29? Ive eaten stiffer pasta
    I'm not sure where, or when you had experience with the tracer29, but mine setup with the new G1 dropouts, the new lower link, 142x12 rear axle, king hubs, and Flow wheels, is very stiff.. Hammering the pedals, power slides, no problem! It is without a doubt a beast. Heavy. Squishy. Not your typical 29er.

  32. #32
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    I demo'd a behemoth for a day...put on one of my stems and bars to get cockpit dialed.

    As with other faux bars, the pedal-induced squat was bothersome. Played around with pressures in the float, but never found a sweet spot. So just made heavy use of propedal on climbs. Overall just felt primitive compared to the many DW link ibis and turner bikes I've ridden or owned (haven't owned a sultan btw).

    But the geo of the behemoth felt very good.
    Originally posted by bucksaw87
    I still fail to see how mustaches, fixies, and PBR are ironic.

  33. #33
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    My experience with the Tracer was with a 2011 G2 with Hope hubs with funn bolts and Flows. Every part of the rear triangle flexed , dropouts, stays and the upper portion of the triangle where it mounted to the upper link. So much so I unloaded that piece of crap for a $1500 loss in 6mos.
    bikesonburke

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete weber View Post
    My experience with the Tracer was with a 2011 G2 with Hope hubs with funn bolts and Flows. Every part of the rear triangle flexed , dropouts, stays and the upper portion of the triangle where it mounted to the upper link. So much so I unloaded that piece of crap for a $1500 loss in 6mos.
    Bummer loss man. Well I don't know if it's the new changes that my frame has, the newer style lower link, the 142x12 rear, or you ride ALOT harder than I do, but I find mine to be very latteraly stiff. So,, what AM 29er did you replace it with?

  35. #35
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    I replaced it with a Shinobi that is stiffer then the Intense. I will say though VPP is the best suspension I've ever ridden.I got a good deal on a Banshee Prime so that's on the way too
    bikesonburke

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete weber View Post
    I replaced it with a Shinobi that is stiffer then the Intense. I will say though VPP is the best suspension I've ever ridden.I got a good deal on a Banshee Prime so that's on the way too
    Well, I hope that banshee works out better for you, that bike looks nice!

  37. #37
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    To the person that just neg-repped me and called me a "troll" for what I added to this post, you clearly haven't the first effing clue what a troll is.

    I shared detailed, specific info based on actually riding these bikes. Pretty much the opposite of a troll.

    If you don't *like* what I wrote, that's something different. The least you could do is pose an intelligent question, maybe in hopes of clarifying something I wrote that you disagreed with?

    Instead, you took the cowardly route--didn't even have the sack to sign your neg rep.

    All the more reason the rep system here isn't working. Until people are held accountable for their reps, the only thing the system is encouraging is a don't-step-on-anyone's-toes popularity contest. A true review is honest, objective, and doesn't bow down to what others might or might not like to hear.

    MC

  38. #38
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    Well I just 1-up'd you on rep, so take that sackless accuser I appreciate your honesty and real world reviews without the fairy dust sprinkled on top.

  39. #39
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    I would chose the Turner over the Lenz sport, in fact I would chose any 29er over any Lenz Sport bike for one very important reason! If anything goes wrong with a Lenz Sport bike you will be on the couch for at least a few months!!! That is if you don't have a back up bike, which I would highly recommend if your buying any Lenz Sport bike!! A friend of mine has been waiting for over 3 months for a replacement rocker link for his Leviathan and still no word on availability. I have already paid for my replacement parts for my moth and it has been over a week now and no answer to a simple question of availability. Needless to say I am building another bike up and would bet the price of the build I will get it done before I get just an availibility answer from Lenz Sport!! I also will be selling the frame once it is back together...for dirt cheap, granted that will be several months from now I am sure of that!

  40. #40
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    Holler at me when you or your friend sells. What size is it?
    Rudy Projects look ridiculous

    visit my blog, BEATS, BIKES & LIFE

  41. #41
    In FTF We Trust
    Reputation: el-cid's Avatar
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    Heck, I'll get in line behind appleSSeed, especially if it's a large 3" Lev. I've been riding my LunchBox for a couple years (5" version) and have really enjoyed it. Plus, whenever I had a question about anything I picked up the phone and talked directly to Devin on the phone. Of couse, that was when he was a completely one-man-band; I don't know what the communication is like lately.
    "I'll disintegrate over time if I expect my body to try to keep up with my mind" -BM

    Race, Rocks or Road...Just Ride

  42. #42
    red rock roller
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    I believe his Leviathan is a medium and I don't believe he is going to sell it.

    As for the communication with Lenz Sport it's ok, I have been sending emails to a Nick in sales and marketing. I gather (from the time it takes him to get an availibility answer from Devin) they are not in the same building, city or state!

    My behemoth front triangle will be for sale as soon as it is back from being stripped, media blasted, QCed for cracks and fatigue and then powder coated satin black. It will also have all new upgraded bearings and hardware installed as well as new rocker arms. The size is medium and it will be without any badging. I will let it go for the low low price of $500, if you want the full frame including coil and shock and spare derailluer hanger then it would be $750 + shipping. Take in mind I have requested to Nick that I no longer want to purchase the seat stay, and the chain stay is straight and true it has been chewed up near the main pivot point due to chain suck, hence the low additional price of the full frame. PM me if interested.

  43. #43
    dlc
    dlc is offline
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    Just got a 2012 sultan getting off a 2010 sultan and a 2009 before that. The 12 with a fox 34 and the 142x12 is night and day. The 12 is slacker and stiffer. It feels a lot like a WFO to me. I like a short stay bike on certain trials but for an all day do everything bike the stays being loooong is kinda nice. It is a sit and spin bike to me and the stays help me keep the front end down, but I am 6'6". Turner fit and finish has always been nice but this new frame is just one step above most with the little things you don't notice till you are building the bike. As far as bob goes I never use the propedal but don't stand a lot. HANDS DOWN YOU WILL NOT BEAT TURNERS WARRANTY OR SUPPORT!!

    The Lenz is also a very nice bike. Love the craftmenship. To me the bike is built to be a very active bike. good or bad?? To me they are great on a shorter ride but 5-6 hours in on that steep climb and you are working the bike it migh not be so great. I like the simple suspencion design. This issue of parts turn around time might be a problem.

  44. #44
    Daniel the Dog
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    It is not your fault

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    To the person that just neg-repped me and called me a "troll" for what I added to this post, you clearly haven't the first effing clue what a troll is.

    I shared detailed, specific info based on actually riding these bikes. Pretty much the opposite of a troll.

    If you don't *like* what I wrote, that's something different. The least you could do is pose an intelligent question, maybe in hopes of clarifying something I wrote that you disagreed with?

    Instead, you took the cowardly route--didn't even have the sack to sign your neg rep.

    All the more reason the rep system here isn't working. Until people are held accountable for their reps, the only thing the system is encouraging is a don't-step-on-anyone's-toes popularity contest. A true review is honest, objective, and doesn't bow down to what others might or might not like to hear.

    MC
    not your fault (Good Will Hunting) - YouTube

  45. #45
    Team Velveeta™
    Reputation: TomP's Avatar
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    lame

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    ...Instead, you took the cowardly route--didn't even have the sack to sign your neg rep.

    All the more reason the rep system here isn't working. Until people are held accountable for their reps, the only thing the system is encouraging is a don't-step-on-anyone's-toes popularity contest. A true review is honest, objective, and doesn't bow down to what others might or might not like to hear...
    Totally agree. I got neg rep'd this week because I wrote a post about how riding here in my town is starting to thaw and open up. It was a stoke post, with story and pics.

    A certain lame newbie who signed up for mtbr this month responded saying that my home town riding isn't open until the local famous, photo op ride opens. And then there was neg rep in my account saying the same thing! Wonder who did that ?!

    It's so easy to slag on somebody, even if you have no idea what you're talking about and/or the "infraction" that you are neg rep-ing is insignificant or non-existent. I could go onto one of the regional forums and neg rep every post because I don't like the state they live in.

    Then, I think about it a little and wonder why the h311 I care.
    Tom Purvis - Salida, CO - http://teamvelveeta.tom-purvis.com

    "I like my wimmen like I like my beer--cold and bitter!"

  46. #46
    mtbr member
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    The rep system takes a forum even further toward beauty contest and away from meritocracy. The best thing that board admins could do is remove it.

  47. #47
    orthonormal
    Reputation: andy f's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj View Post
    The rep system takes a forum even further toward beauty contest and away from meritocracy. The best thing that board admins could do is remove it.
    Pos repped
    The glass is twice as large as it needs to be

  48. #48
    Bite Me.
    Reputation: cutthroat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotcurves View Post
    I believe his Leviathan is a medium and I don't believe he is going to sell it.

    As for the communication with Lenz Sport it's ok, I have been sending emails to a Nick in sales and marketing. I gather (from the time it takes him to get an availibility answer from Devin) they are not in the same building, city or state!

    My behemoth front triangle will be for sale as soon as it is back from being stripped, media blasted, QCed for cracks and fatigue and then powder coated satin black. It will also have all new upgraded bearings and hardware installed as well as new rocker arms. The size is medium and it will be without any badging. I will let it go for the low low price of $500, if you want the full frame including coil and shock and spare derailluer hanger then it would be $750 + shipping. Take in mind I have requested to Nick that I no longer want to purchase the seat stay, and the chain stay is straight and true it has been chewed up near the main pivot point due to chain suck, hence the low additional price of the full frame. PM me if interested.
    Let me know if you want to sell the rear triangle or just the seat stay - I have a little ding in mine and wouldn't mind having a replacement just in case.
    When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. ~H.G. Wells

  49. #49
    not so super...
    Reputation: SSINGA's Avatar
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    Why are you girls whining about your rep on a intraweb forum? Get over it!
    Nothing to see here.

  50. #50
    red rock roller
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    Quote Originally Posted by cutthroat View Post
    Let me know if you want to sell the rear triangle or just the seat stay - I have a little ding in mine and wouldn't mind having a replacement just in case.
    My seat stay is bent, hence why I was ordering a new one, I am still waiting on an answer from Lenz about removing the seat stay from the order, I hope to get word about my request by the end of next week. If they are unwilling to remove it from the order and I end up with a new one then I will sell you the used one for $50 + shipping. I will let you know when I get word either way from Lenz.

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