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Thread: Pole Machine

  1. #1
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    Pole Machine

    Not sure if you guys have seen this yet, but I am more than a little besotted by it!

    Pole Machine-pole-machine_white_page.jpg

    https://polebicycles.com/machine/

    I really like the ideas behind it, I have been interested in their geometry on their other bikes for a while but this bring things pretty next level and is a completely new way of looking at things. I am definitely not adverse to carbon bikes, I have a couple, but I am a sucker for CNC work when it is done well!

    I reckon this thing would be an absolute beast with 3.0 tyres on, the ultimate monster truck! Not that I've thought too much about this over the past weekend!!

    Last edited by Just J; 03-21-2018 at 02:42 PM.

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    yeah, that thing is redonk. probably the only thing coming out right now that could pursued me to hang up my Mega.

    I can't wait for production models to hit the press and give me reviews to drool over.

    all i have to add is "do want" and "probably cannot afford".
    Tim M Hovey

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    Yeah, that Machine has me drooling too. I have a Pole 158 on pre-order, and while I'm tempted to change my order, it would cost me $1400 get the Machine, and I just can't rationalize that.

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    I want one. I wish they made it in a 160 fork so I can buy the frameset and just transfer everything over from my Mega 290.
    I no longer like to party. But I like the idea of it.

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    I'm proud new owner of Pole Evolink 29" 160/140 mm. It's a true game changer! Really easy to ride and it doesn't feel clumsy and it's fast as Hell.
    Let’s go Racing! – The 10 fastest enduro bikes in test | ENDURO Mountainbike Magazine
    I saw the Maschines prototype and tested it on parking lot and I'm in love. Beautiful piece of Art!

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    It is supremely beautiful. Makes me want to move to a resort town to justify a purchase of one.

    I am curious to see how well the bonded tubes hold up to real world abuse.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by unrealityshow View Post
    I am curious to see how well the bonded tubes hold up to real world abuse.
    I'm sure its totally bomber. designing that kind of stuff is fairly well understood and i'm sure they've evaluated materials and designed for appropriate substrate contact surfaces and material thicknesses. Given how much machine work must go into something like this, designing for the adhesive interfaces would be a minor engineering task.

    I see plenty of small machine bolts holding the halves together. I'm willing to bet these were added just to keep the parts consistently clamped and aligned while the adhesives cure and probably aren't needed to take any load in the final product.

    Structural adhesives, depending on type, can take several weeks to cure, so its much more practical to add a couple more machine steps and some fasteners than it is to fixture the parts and clamp it for most of a month.

    I think this thing is freekin brilliant. anybody know what the weight came out at? If this beast is 30 pounds or less it will literally be the ultimate bike.

    FYI: I deal with some structural adhesives in my line work. they work pretty good.
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    I am sure this thing will be overkill but I'm trying to make it happen right now!!

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    i am sure this bike is cool but when i read Pole Machine i just think of a really dedicated stripper. like one that has been out there for like 15 songs or something

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jefflinde View Post
    i am sure this bike is cool but when i read Pole Machine i just think of a really dedicated stripper. like one that has been out there for like 15 songs or something
    Boner Garage
    I no longer like to party. But I like the idea of it.

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    I too am super close to pulling the trigger on one of these! Curious if there are owners of Pole Evolinks out there who could give their opinion if this bike is a true quiver killer and would upgrade to a Machine?

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    Hi pta - congrats on your Evolink! May I ask what sort of trails you ride on typically? Im seriously considering beteeen a Machine or an Evolink 140

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    Is anyone concerned about protecting the shock from rear wheel debris?

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    I'm on the verge of pulling the trigger as well. The more I study the kinematics, listen to the real world reviews of the Evolink, and drool over the simple beauty of the lines of the bike I can't see going any other direction.

    Couple of things that I'm trying to get answered before hitting the 'buy' button on the frame set.

    1) Warranty - Pole says 'lifetime'. However sitting here in the southern rockies...If I crack a swing arm for example, I'm concerned with the down-time. Weeks? Months?

    2) Untested long term durability - Sure this is first gen radical stuff. I guess there's known inherent risk, but $3300 is a chunk for me. Evil bikes damn near went tits up on their first gen breakages. They pulled through though and all is well.

    Other than that I honestly can't see why not. I'm a sucker for C&C bling, and if it climbs and descends half as well as the Evolink riders say it does, then win!
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    I heard that they're in the process of creating a "how it's made" sort of video regarding this.

    Interesting how they chose this shaping, when they could've chose pretty much any shape they wanted. The offset and sideways turned shock...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaydubmah View Post
    Hi pta - congrats on your Evolink! May I ask what sort of trails you ride on typically? Im seriously considering beteeen a Machine or an Evolink 140
    My riding is mainly trail riding. Occasionally I visit bike parks too. I think the mashine would be bit overkill for my riding. I think Evolink is better all purpose bike

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    Quote Originally Posted by bogeydog View Post
    Is anyone concerned about protecting the shock from rear wheel debris?

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


    Yep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bogeydog View Post
    Is anyone concerned about protecting the shock from rear wheel debris?

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    Their Evolink bikes actually have a nice little fender to protect the shock but it doesnt look like the asymmetric swingarm design lends itself to this. Could be a big problem in the climate my neck of the woods tends to have.


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    Their warranty is not a crash replace warranty. As I have read it it is a lifetime warranty for structural defects only. I would ask them directly

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    Hi Jamie
    I guess we must have similar tastes as I was looking at an an evo link 140 and now got my eye on one of these too!
    If you want to try the radical geometry I have one of the latest mojo geometrons in the garage you are welcome to have a play on. Not as poppy and playful as the switchblade but super fast and insanely capable!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pigglet13 View Post
    Hi Jamie
    I guess we must have similar tastes as I was looking at an an evo link 140 and now got my eye on one of these too!
    If you want to try the radical geometry I have one of the latest mojo geometrons in the garage you are welcome to have a play on. Not as poppy and playful as the switchblade but super fast and insanely capable!
    Hey Dave!

    I guess we must! I wondered why you had gone quiet on the SB thread, did it go the journey?

    Thank you for the offer, that would be awesome, I am really interested to see what they ride like. We really need to sort that ride out at some point soon!

    I'd still keep the Switchblade, if I did end up with one of these, both completely different bikes and the Pivot is, I believe perfect for me. I'm having trouble getting email replies from Pole at the moment as apposed to Pivot answering within minutes usually, so we'll see how that pans out...

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    Still got the blade, the geometron is just for big days and alpine uplift days as it's overkill for general trail riding.
    The switchblade is pretty much perfect for my general day to day riding and like you I think the machine would be overkill for that but it's a really interesting contraption. If there was a 140mm version Id consider trying one to replace the blade. Slacking out the switchblade has just made it better and I'd love to try an XL to see if I still found it as poppy but with more speed potential????

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pigglet13 View Post
    Still got the blade, the geometron is just for big days and alpine uplift days as it's overkill for general trail riding.
    The switchblade is pretty much perfect for my general day to day riding and like you I think the machine would be overkill for that but it's a really interesting contraption. If there was a 140mm version Id consider trying one to replace the blade. Slacking out the switchblade has just made it better and I'd love to try an XL to see if I still found it as poppy but with more speed potential????
    I'm considering upping the fork on my Blade to 160mm and also running the 17mm cup, for the simple reason being - pedal strikes! I'm worried that I'll lose something in the climbs though...

    I wonder if Upgrade have an XL in?

    I love the look and idea of the Machine, you could machine me anything and I'd want it! I like the idea of looking for alternatives to carbon too, there was nothing wrong with alloy bikes before plastic was the in thing! Ha! I also reckon a 140mm travel one would be perfect.

  24. #24
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    Well Im going to give the Machine a try I reckon, Ive been reading up on these long bikes and theyre making a lot of sense to me. Anyone else pulled the trigger on one?


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    cant wait to see ride reports

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    Hey there Just J, I pulled the trigger on a frameset and looking forward to building it up.

    It's definitely gonna be interesting making a leap to a bike so different from what I've currently got, but hey - it can be neat to slide off of the incremental change process

    The machine ticks a lot of boxes for me, and got me super curious: the gorgeous machining, raw metal finish, multiple bottle mounts, simpler cable routing, 29" wheels, big travel, and most of all - super progressive geometry.

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    I'm still waiting for the how-it's-made video they promised. I am curious why the head tube is so bulky. With their carbon prototype, they had some sort of geo changing insert.
    Tell me when I'm wrong. Neg rep me. I will appreciate it, even if you don't explain why I'm wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaydubmah View Post
    Hey there Just J, I pulled the trigger on a frameset and looking forward to building it up.

    It's definitely gonna be interesting making a leap to a bike so different from what I've currently got, but hey - it can be neat to slide off of the incremental change process

    The machine ticks a lot of boxes for me, and got me super curious: the gorgeous machining, raw metal finish, multiple bottle mounts, simpler cable routing, 29" wheels, big travel, and most of all - super progressive geometry.
    Hey jaydubmah!

    Welcome to the fold!

    This bike is totally different to anything I've owned in the past too, it's the longest travel but also the geometry is going to feel very different.

    Looking forward to seeing what the bike will do...

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    Quote Originally Posted by dv8zen View Post
    I'm still waiting for the how-it's-made video they promised. I am curious why the head tube is so bulky. With their carbon prototype, they had some sort of geo changing insert.
    Also looking forward to seeing this, not bothered about the geometry change thing though, I like simplicity and not having to change too much too often nowadays...

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    A little more info released today on Pole's YouTube account.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbp_QxUaTEY

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    5.3 kg prototype with headset and coil shock. Ouch. Under 4 is about par for a long travel bike with a coil shock. That must've taken them back to the computer for optimizations for a while. xD

    Their 3 kg frame advertised production weight w/o hardware is on par with carbon. Closer to a Nomad's weight (3.3 kg with air) than a Transition (reportedly really heavy).

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    Quote Originally Posted by dv8zen View Post
    5.3 kg prototype with headset and coil shock. Ouch. Under 4 is about par for a long travel bike with a coil shock. That must've taken them back to the computer for optimizations for a while. xD

    Their 3 kg frame advertised production weight w/o hardware is on par with carbon. Closer to a Nomad's weight (3.3 kg with air) than a Transition (reportedly really heavy).
    It is just that though, a prototype. I like their honest approach with their bikes, Im looking forward to seeing how this pans out.


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    Pole Machine-evolink_140_grey_polestore-1.jpgPole Machine-pole-machine_white_page-1280x855.jpg

    Had to compare the Evolink to the Machine to understand why some of their experience in terms of predicting stresses didn't carry over. They mention that going from 7005-T6 to 7075-T6 increased hardness, among other properties, complicates things.

    Looked up the properties of each to compare. Learned some new things. Honestly thought 6061-T6 had better fatigue life than 7000 series Al, but one site seems to say otherwise, and that 7075 improves upon it all (except ductility). Thought 7000 series would be brittle and prone to crack, more likely to fail catastrophically, but people once said the same thing about carbon. Guess it's all about the use and execution of the material and product. They've successfully used it in the Evolink, at least 7005-T6. Doesn't seem wildly different in 7075-T6 form.

    Noticed how the model name is punny in more ways now. xD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just J View Post
    A little more info released today on Pole's YouTube account.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbp_QxUaTEY
    Thanks for posting the vid, J. I'm a bit chagrined to admit that until seeing it, I didn't understand that the frame includes a BB-concentric suspension linkage bearing. Everything makes sense now.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Thanks for posting the vid, J. I'm a bit chagrined to admit that until seeing it, I didn't understand that the frame includes a BB-concentric suspension linkage bearing. Everything makes sense now.
    =sParty
    No problem sParty, looks good doesn't it? The ability to run 3" tyres on a bike like this that promises to pedal well has me hooked!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by dv8zen View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	1175871Click image for larger version. 

Name:	POLE-machine_white_page-1280x855.jpg 
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    Had to compare the Evolink to the Machine to understand why some of their experience in terms of predicting stresses didn't carry over. They mention that going from 7005-T6 to 7075-T6 increased hardness, among other properties, complicates things.

    Looked up the properties of each to compare. Learned some new things. Honestly thought 6061-T6 had better fatigue life than 7000 series Al, but one site seems to say otherwise, and that 7075 improves upon it all (except ductility). Thought 7000 series would be brittle and prone to crack, more likely to fail catastrophically, but people once said the same thing about carbon. Guess it's all about the use and execution of the material and product. They've successfully used it in the Evolink, at least 7005-T6. Doesn't seem wildly different in 7075-T6 form.

    Noticed how the model name is punny in more ways now. xD
    Very interesting indeed, I'm also looking forward to more technical information coming through, so I can really geek out on that stuff.

  38. #38
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    I admittedly know very little when it comes to fs bikes, but that Machine is beautiful.
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just J View Post
    No problem sParty, looks good doesn't it? The ability to run 3" tyres on a bike like this that promises to pedal well has me hooked!
    Absolutely. Asymmetrical frames like this and the Rallon may portend additional lopsided advances in frame design. We can hope.
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    Take a look at this for a lot more information on the choice of alloy...

    https://nsmb.com/articles/behind-pol...e-the-machine/


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    hey everyone just trying to decide on which bike to pull the trigger on the 140 or the 158. I would prefer the 158 travel but I am concerned about such a high stack height it is 13mm higher than the 140 which is already way higher than anything else out there. Any opinions?

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    Beautiful bike but just to much travel for my needs. Really like Pole's Philosophy about the carbon waste etc.

  43. #43
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    Say what you want about the Pole, but it is beautiful!
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

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    It sure is!


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    Couldn't you run a flat bar and a negative rise stem... seems like getting it down 20mm or so would be pretty doable. Its funny at 6'3" and more leg than arm I always fight to raise the stack hight (end up replacing the stock cut steerer forks my bikes come with trying to gain 20mm or so)


    Quote Originally Posted by henricksen View Post
    hey everyone just trying to decide on which bike to pull the trigger on the 140 or the 158. I would prefer the 158 travel but I am concerned about such a high stack height it is 13mm higher than the 140 which is already way higher than anything else out there. Any opinions?

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    A medium has a 480mm reach with a 79 deg effective STA. My current ride is also a medium but with a 430mm reach and a 74 deg effective STA. I use a 50mm stem. Would I still ride a medium or size down to a small?

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    Ride a medium on the Pole. The point of these style of bikes is to finally be on a bike with proper reach.

    FWIW I'm on a 502mm reach G16 and my previous frames predate reach being a legit geo number. Current bikes are all mediums; V10C, Range, Surface

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUNKY View Post
    Ride a medium on the Pole. The point of these style of bikes is to finally be on a bike with proper reach.

    FWIW I'm on a 502mm reach G16 and my previous frames predate reach being a legit geo number. Current bikes are all mediums; V10C, Range, Surface
    I ride a medium basically on every bike I have. The 430mm reach is the longest I've ridden so far. Also...with such a steep STA...does that put you in front of the bottom bracket?

    I'm not necessarily looking at the Machine...but the Evolink 131. I think the geo on the bikes are similar with the exception of the Evolinks STA being 1 deg slacker.

  49. #49
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    Ordered the parts I needed for this build yesterday, here's the spec I decided to go for:

    FRAME: Pole Machine

    HEADSET: Cane Creek Forty

    FORKS: Rock Shox Lyric RCT3 180mm

    RIMS: Raceface Arc 35

    HUBS: Hope Pro 4 Evo Silver

    SPOKES: DT Swiss

    TYRES: Terrene McFly 2.8/Maxxis Rekon 29 x 2.6/Minion DHF/DHR

    HANDLEBARS: Raceface Atlas 1/2 Rise Raw

    STEM: Raceface Turbine 60mm

    SPACERS: Hope silver

    GRIPS: Sensus

    SEATPOST: Rockshox Reverb (Thumb Shifter)

    SADDLE: Bontrager Evoke Ti/Fabric Scoop Race Ti

    CRANKSET: Sram GX Dub Eagle

    CHAINRING: Sram X-Sync 2 Oval 30T

    BOTTOM BRACKET: Sram Eagle

    CHAIN: SRAM GX Eagle

    REAR DERAILIEUR: SRAM GX Eagle

    CASSETTE: Sram GX Eagle

    SHIFTER: Sram GX Eagle

    BRAKES: SRAM Code RSC with 203mm/180mm Rotors

    I decided to go for GX Eagle as I've got XX1 Eagle on two of my other bikes and really like it. From what I hear the GX stuff shifts almost as well as the XX1 only at literally a fraction of the price, I've picked this groupset up for a little over what a XX1 cassette would cost me! Looking forward to trying it out.

    I wanted to keep the Rockshox/Sram theme going and I wanted to shy away from carbon on this build, just because it seems ironically cool to do so at the moment and particularly on this bike!

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    I stumbled onto this bike while shopping for a short travel 27. Like OP Im drunk over the Machine. Like damn, is this the most beautiful frame ever mane? My issue is I have a wreckoning. I can afford to add a second bike or upgrade the wreckoning to the Machine. Im looking for a second bike because climbing the wreck has gotten pretty anying and I cant whip the 29er back wheel very well. Im into the philosophy of having bikes for the extremes, ie a dh race type bike and a super playful small bike. Im sure the machine is even more of a dh race type bike compared to the wreckoning, but do you guys think it might also be a better all-arounder? If it is I could probably just upgrade and scrap the second bike idea for now.

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    I also think this thread needs more pics of the Machine.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleMtnSlayer View Post
    I stumbled onto this bike while shopping for a short travel 27. Like OP Im drunk over the Machine. Like damn, is this the most beautiful frame ever mane? My issue is I have a wreckoning. I can afford to add a second bike or upgrade the wreckoning to the Machine. Im looking for a second bike because climbing the wreck has gotten pretty anying and I cant whip the 29er back wheel very well. Im into the philosophy of having bikes for the extremes, ie a dh race type bike and a super playful small bike. Im sure the machine is even more of a dh race type bike compared to the wreckoning, but do you guys think it might also be a better all-arounder? If it is I could probably just upgrade and scrap the second bike idea for now.
    From what Leo, the owner of Pole says about the Machine it will become his all round trail bike and Ive heard similar said of the Evolink bikes so all signs point to it being a great all rounder. Its still a 160/180mm travel bike though so Id expect certain traits of those types of bikes to show their faces, monster truck suspension rather than lively and poppy maybe. The thing is, nobody knows as yet, its all very exciting to see how it pans out.


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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleMtnSlayer View Post
    I also think this thread needs more pics of the Machine.
    Seems reasonable. I'm looking forward to seeing JustJ's build.
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbhammercycle View Post
    Seems reasonable. I'm looking forward to seeing JustJ's build.
    Me too. When it comes to dream bikes/builds, I pretty much live vicariously through Jamie's adventures.
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  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Me too. When it comes to dream bikes/builds, I pretty much live vicariously through Jamie's adventures.
    =sParty
    Ha ha thanks sParty! Not too many adventures from me of late but I plan to change that soon!


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    I'm still diggin' on the ultimate warrior. I get it, but after that ride what else does one need to go for a ride?

    That said, you SHOULD build it J, because I need to see that machine.
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbhammercycle View Post
    I'm still diggin' on the ultimate warrior. I get it, but after that ride what else does one need to go for a ride?

    That said, you SHOULD build it J, because I need to see that machine.
    I totally agree, the UW remains my favourite and go to bike and Im reckoning on that not changing at all. It does everything from xc to dh including a bit of road really well, its an amazing bike. The Pole is because I have an insatiable need to test new things and I want to see what all the fuss is about with its geometry. Oh and its so pretty!!


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    Hi, you guys think the Machine can fit into an Evoc bike bag? Looking at the size small EN build,wondering if it is going to be a 13ish kg bike.

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    Yes i think so.

  60. #60
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    Just as an update, I saw sense, realised my Pivot Switchblade didn't need anymore company and that my 29 Plus was the only monster truck I need! Coupled with a few niggles about the Machine and the ever increasing lead time I decided to cancel my order and get (most of) my money back.

    I'm sure it would have been a nice bike but sometimes sense has to prevail in the end...

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just J View Post
    sometimes sense has to prevail in the end...
    Only for the rest of us, J. But certainly not for you!
    I've come to depend on your inspiring reports of stunning bikes.
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  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Only for the rest of us, J. But certainly not for you!
    I've come to depend on your inspiring reports of stunning bikes.
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    Ha ha therell still be plenty of them to come sParty, dont you worry!!


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    So they've already moved away from the one-sided shock mount. The Machine as at 1:18. https://www.pinkbike.com/news/what-b...-in-chile.html

    There is some hardware visible that appears to be holding the frame halves together. I love the look of this bike. I just ordered an Evolink with the intention of upgrading to a Machine in a few seasons. It does seem like they're still working out some of the details.

  64. #64
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    A very limited review of a Machine proto: https://dirtmountainbike.com/bike-re...irst-ride.html
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  65. #65
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    @vikb I recall you hating on long geo when you were trying to defend the pivot m6. What inspired your interest in this, the most extreme long wheelbase bike?

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleMtnSlayer View Post
    @vikb I recall you hating on long geo when you were trying to defend the pivot m6. What inspired your interest in this, the most extreme long wheelbase bike?
    I'm not interested in the Machine as a bike I want to own, but it's cool and I'm an engineer so I'm loving the techy porn that it is.

    Just like I watch some DH videos/racing from time to time, but I have zero interest in DH riding myself.
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    Ahh makes sense. I cant agree more, this 100% machined bike is super hot bike porn. Although, if money was no consequence, I would love to own it myself.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleMtnSlayer View Post
    Ahh makes sense. I cant agree more, this 100% machined bike is super hot bike porn. Although, if money was no consequence, I would love to own it myself.
    Definitely. If I had crazy $$ this would be a worthy bit of industrial art.
    Safe riding,

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  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    A very limited review of a Machine proto: https://dirtmountainbike.com/bike-re...irst-ride.html
    is it just me, or are all of dirt's reviews "very limited". got really excited when i spotted this article, and many others (the whole dirty dozen series of long travel 29ers), but they are always kind of a let down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by euroford View Post
    is it just me, or are all of dirt's reviews "very limited". got really excited when i spotted this article, and many others (the whole dirty dozen series of long travel 29ers), but they are always kind of a let down.
    I agree with you 100%, their reviews lack any useful content. I read the whole dirty dozen series and the Pole Machine review and got nothing out of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidermatt View Post
    I agree with you 100%, their reviews lack any useful content. I read the whole dirty dozen series and the Pole Machine review and got nothing out of it.
    Most bike reviews in general, and US reviews especially are not much use. But they have some nice pictures and sometime they give you information that you can not read from the spec sheet. Lucky for us that it is very difficult to buy a bad bike these days, so reviews are not that important anymore as a buying advice.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by revver View Post
    Hi, you guys think the Machine can fit into an Evoc bike bag? Looking at the size small EN build,wondering if it is going to be a 13ish kg bike.
    Yes, without a doubt. My XL Banshee Prime with 160 fork fits in an EVOC. Wheelbase is 48" plus, that appears to be close to the limit of the bag. I can also say that an XL Machine would not fit, unless it folds. I'm unclear on whether the Machine folds.

  73. #73

  74. #74
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    Love the look and idea of the Pole machine, but that wheelbase scares me, coming of a size M evil insurgent.

    What do you guys think of a shorter offset fork on this machine?

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stylomat View Post
    Love the look and idea of the Pole machine, but that wheelbase scares me, coming of a size M evil insurgent.

    What do you guys think of a shorter offset fork on this machine?
    What's wrong with the wheelbase? The fork that comes with the bike is probably fine.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrPaulus View Post
    What's wrong with the wheelbase? The fork that comes with the bike is probably fine.
    Well because the wheelbase is enormous, and for fast trails this is good.
    But when it gets tight or switchbacks, this could be a problem, or hard to get the bike around stuff/corners.

  77. #77
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    Yeah it may be a problem, and maybe it is not. If we look at history of bikes, the switchback issue has been present on forums since the dawn of 29er bikes. Bikes have since been getting longer every year, and every time the switchback issue comes up. So if it was a real issue I believe we would not have been able to ride switchbacks for the last ten years or more.

    To be more precise I do not think tight switchbacks are where the Pole excells. But I do not think it's much worse on a Pole than most other modern bikes. These long bikes have been around for a while now, and they use them in the alps where switchbacks are as tight as they come.

    Regarding shorter fork offset, Leo at Pole have been testing normal and shorter offsets back to back on the bike. And he says that the differences are small, and even if you do side by side comparisons it is difficult to notice any difference. I do not believe that getting a fork with shorter offset is going to get you through switchbacks any easier. But in other ways it may or may not improve the feel of the bike to your liking.

    There are also several reviews of Pole bikes, Bird bikes and Nicolai bikes. All of these bikes are long compared to what you would get from other brands a few years ago. Some reviews mention switchbacks as harder to do on these bikes, or that you have to change your riding technique. And some say that they are not a problem. What is right and what is wrong I do not know. But I can understand that it may be a concern if a lot of the riding you do involves tight switchbacks and endos.

  78. #78
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    It took a while for 29ers to achieve "normal" mtb geometry, with ~17" chainstays and normal head-tube angles, they still have more BB drop, but the first nearly 10 years was simply extending the chainstay so a front-derailleur could fit in there, pushing the wheel out. We got some goofy-geometry on 29ers back then and they sucked even at the slow speed stuff. With a big wheel turning slowly, there's no real reason why it should be difficult in tight terrain, because there's no significant gyroscopic force at slow speed, but once the geometry got fixed up a few years ago, the "low speed" problem largely went away, leaving the high speed problem, but a reasonable trade-off for most people and situations (rather than taking a hit all-around).
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  79. #79
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    I saw a Machine in person. Crazy looking frame for sure. Kind of a shame that most people there did not know what they are looking at. Its a really impressive looking frame...more so when you get up close.



    I didn't get a chance to climb on the Machine...but I did pedal around on the Evolink 140. At low speeds...the really slack front end does have some flop. I don't think you can really eliminate that with a HTA so slack...regardless of how steep you try to make the seat angle. With that said...the fit of the frame actually feels pretty good.

  80. #80
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    These first Machines could be historic. Im interested if for that fact alone.

  81. #81
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    Pole Machine

    New production pics from website wow......
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Pole Machine-machine-s-ds.jpg  

    Pole Machine-pole-machine-cable-routing.jpg  

    Pole Machine-pole-machine-cable-shock-mount.jpg  

    Pole Machine-pole-machine-tire-clearance.jpg  

    Pole Machine-machine-s-nds.jpg  


  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBguru71 View Post
    New production pics from website wow......
    No kidding. This bike looks right to me in so many ways.
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    🤤🤤🤤

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    Yeah this bike looks so amazing. If you can afford it, and have time to wait, I don't understand why you would want to buy any other LT bike right now.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrPaulus View Post
    Yeah this bike looks so amazing. If you can afford it, and have time to wait, I don't understand why you would want to buy any other LT bike right now.
    Well, for one they have an extreme-falling AS curve with the suspension on their other bikes (see linkageblog), which means they'll pedal like a wet-mattress uphill and when you really try to lay the power down. Very similar to an older FSR bike, before they tried to flatten out the curve or jack it much higher. As far as kinematics (kind of the reason I buy an FS frame), I'm not impressed by what the numbers show.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  86. #86
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    Jayem, maybe you should test ride one of their bikes, instead of looking those AS curves.
    I own Evolink and did couple of rides with Machine proto on January and they both climb very well. Evolink is very good bike but the Machine is just awesome.
    I have owned those old FRS, Vpp and DW link bikes and Evolink pedals as well as those bikes with DW-links and better than Vpp bikes with similar travel and Machine is updated version of the Evolink.

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    I agree with Miamia. There is an adverse effect of high AS values and there are many more factors to suspension efficiency. If you research the pole geometry you will see this. The climbing position is completely different. Leo is an engineer and a skilled rider so I trust his design and every review I've seen on the Evolink or the Machine has been overwhelmingly positive regarding climbing.

  88. #88
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    The sta alone is going to make this bike climb like a dream. Maybe itll need a platform shock to help keep the suspension firm, but guess what, all the best shocks have them now. So IMO 79 deg STA + platform shock is much greater than slack sta and better AS curve. Plus the brake squat, pedal kick back and forces curves all look very good.

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    Yes Machine climbs really well and does not need platform shock. I have hlins coil in my Evolink, it rides nice and high and I haven't used that climbing lever at all. The Machine proto had that RS metric shock, which comes with frame and EN build and it worked really well. That steep seat angel puts you in very good position for climbs. It is really just sit and spin and bike goes up.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by miamia View Post
    Jayem, maybe you should test ride one of their bikes, instead of looking those AS curves.
    I own Evolink and did couple of rides with Machine proto on January and they both climb very well. Evolink is very good bike but the Machine is just awesome.
    I have owned those old FRS, Vpp and DW link bikes and Evolink pedals as well as those bikes with DW-links and better than Vpp bikes with similar travel and Machine is updated version of the Evolink.
    The (suspension) ride characteristics are dictated by the kinematics. Hey, it was asked, I responded, don't worry.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleMtnSlayer View Post
    The sta alone is going to make this bike climb like a dream. Maybe itll need a platform shock to help keep the suspension firm, but guess what, all the best shocks have them now. So IMO 79 deg STA + platform shock is much greater than slack sta and better AS curve. Plus the brake squat, pedal kick back and forces curves all look very good.
    In 1994 I had a custom frame built with a 78 degree seat tube angle (because I employed 200mm cranks and KOPS was still in vogue). Anyway the reason doesn't matter -- what I discovered is the bike climbed like a scalded cat. Steep STA was my secret weapon for over 20 years, I outclimbed all my riding buds, they couldn't figure out why. Now the secret is out. Pole seems to be on the cutting edge of bicycle geometry evolution.
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  92. #92
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    Apparently all of the people who are paid to go uphill fast for a living haven't discovered it yet.

    That, or it's not actually born out by reality?
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  93. #93
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    Actually I would be inclined to agree with the steeper STA and it's effects on climbing. Though saddle position can make a difference in that area as sliding forward does the same thing. Think about it, set back seatposts are disappearing, people are moving forward and can't be blamed on long ETTs as that's compensated by shorter stems. Climbing is more efficient when legs are moving more efficiently.

    78deg STA might be too far but I don't see racers making a big deal about it. Remember every change meets heavy resistance from racers. Plus bikes only came to be as a middle ground to fat bikes due to peoples craving wider tires.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Apparently all of the people who are paid to go uphill fast for a living haven't discovered it yet.

    That, or it's not actually born out by reality?
    Exactly....they are behind the times as usual.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBguru71 View Post
    Exactly....they are behind the times as usual.
    Alternately:

    They run less sag on short travel bikes.

    And, no, Im guessing the National federations that spend $$$ on research with them would make sure they are in the best position possible to produce power on a bicycle.

    I realize people love to chase trends, but there are very simple explanations for WHY long travel bikes have steeper STAs, and yours is not one of them.


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  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    I realize people love to chase trends, but there are very simple explanations for WHY long travel bikes have steeper STAs, and yours is not one of them.
    +1 - yup. I prefer less steep than currently fashionable STAs [33" pants inseam so not short legged]. It's easy to slide forward on the saddle for truly steep climbs and then slide back to an efficient pedalling position for the flats and rolling terrain.

    And that's the rub you can slide forward to steepen the perceived STA anytime you want, but you can slide backwards off the saddle to do the opposite. Which is why I want my saddle in a more moderate position for the bulk of my riding and I am okay with moving forward on the saddle for those times when it makes sense.

    That said I am looking forward to the first 90 deg STA bike. I'm hoping MTB fashion will peak there and we can start moving back the other way.
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  97. #97
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    I dont care about how fast I climb or how much power I can put down. I care about comfort and perceived energy spent. On a long travel bike I feel gassed pretty fast if I cant get into a comfy sit and spin position. This is one of a handful LT bikes that optimizes the climbing position for steep, slow ups. I love what Pole did here and hope other bike makers follow suit.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    +1 - yup. I prefer less steep than currently fashionable STAs [33" pants inseam so not short legged]. It's easy to slide forward on the saddle for truly steep climbs and then slide back to an efficient pedalling position for the flats and rolling terrain.

    And that's the rub you can slide forward to steepen the perceived STA anytime you want, but you can slide backwards off the saddle to do the opposite. Which is why I want my saddle in a more moderate position for the bulk of my riding and I am okay with moving forward on the saddle for those times when it makes sense.

    That said I am looking forward to the first 90 deg STA bike. I'm hoping MTB fashion will peak there and we can start moving back the other way.
    I believe that a steep STA benefits off-road cyclists who ride a certain type of terrain more than other riders. My rides typically include hours long climbs followed by multi-thousand foot descents. I prefer a steep STA because whenever I'm climbing, my front wheel spends its time elevated above the rear wheel. Whenever the front wheel is higher than the rear, STA slacks to the same degree from horizontal. I prefer to spend my climbing hours sitting on the fat part of the saddle rather than on the nose. A steep STA allows me to do this. I don't like sitting on the skinny nose of the saddle any longer than I have to, though I'm well acquainted with this skill and employ it as necessary.

    Once my bike is pointed downhill, STA is moot. The saddle is down, gone.

    Whenever riding flat ground, I find the steep STA doesn't bother me. In fact I like it because my sit bones are on the widest, most padded part of the saddle -- the very back.

    I don't consider bikes with steep STAs fashionable anymore than I consider a bike with a slack HA, short stem, long TT, short CS or low BB fashionable. I've been riding steep STA frames for 24 years and they work for me. Frankly I'm surprised to see the off-road framebuilding world finally arriving at steep STAs because I know the traditional position is so popular but I believe that beyond improved climbing prowess, there's another reason frame designers are employing steep STAs now. A steeper STA allows more travel given the same chainstay length because the rear tire won't contact the seat tube on a steep STA frame until later in the travel.
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  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Alternately:

    They run less sag on short travel bikes.

    And, no, Im guessing the National federations that spend $$$ on research with them would make sure they are in the best position possible to produce power on a bicycle.

    I realize people love to chase trends, but there are very simple explanations for WHY long travel bikes have steeper STAs, and yours is not one of them.


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    What could be more irrelevant to a thread on the Pole Machine than your guesses about what national federations spend their research dollars on?

    I'm sure glad intelligent mountain bikers chase trends with their hard earned dollars. The results of this are more choices in bikes with greater capabilities.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBguru71 View Post
    What could be more irrelevant to a thread on the Pole Machine than your guesses about what national federations spend their research dollars on?

    I'm sure glad intelligent mountain bikers chase trends with their hard earned dollars. The results of this are more choices in bikes with greater capabilities.
    Its relevant in that people at making statements that are inaccurate at best re: STA.

    Just like using the word capable. It means nothing unless you further clarify what it is more or less capable of. There are trade offs. There is no free lunch; one bike is not more capable; it just has a different range of conditions under which it is ideal.


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