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  1. #1
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    Pinkbikes 29 vs 26 DH-AM

    In what is suppose to be both side giving evidence/arguement why one over the other in DH/AM catagory: Niners, Chris Sugio come up very small and the blairing fact that Niner doesn't have 26er in the thieir line up made his argument very biased with no contrast and comparison and sounded like the reverse of the things 29er rider here from 26er riders that never had any seat time on a big wheel bike. On the other hand the 26er rep, Norco engineer had a much more balanced argument and gave due where due was deserved and argument was delivered more effectively and with evidence.

    I don't care which ones better. I will contine to ride a 29er as my Trail/AM bike and a 26 DH. I'm not a close minded fanboy, but would love to have a RIP 6 w/6" of travel as a fun bike.
    Pinkbike's Burning Question - Will the 29er Replace the 26-inch Downhill and All-Mountain Bike? - Pinkbike.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Sugai
    The longer tire contact patch creates more traction and better cornering. it's a fact. You can find it in textbooks.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM View Post
    The longer tire contact patch creates more traction
    Sometimes I wish I had a longer patch.....
    Extreme stationary biker.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drth Vadr View Post
    In what is suppose to be both side giving evidence/arguement why one over the other in DH/AM catagory: Niners, Chris Sugio come up very small and the blairing fact that Niner doesn't have 26er in the thieir line up made his argument very biased with no contrast and comparison and sounded like the reverse of the things 29er rider here from 26er riders that never had any seat time on a big wheel bike. On the other hand the 26er rep, Norco engineer had a much more balanced argument and gave due where due was deserved and argument was delivered more effectively and with evidence.

    I don't care which ones better. I will contine to ride a 29er as my Trail/AM bike and a 26 DH. I'm not a close minded fanboy, but would love to have a RIP 6 w/6" of travel as a fun bike.
    Pinkbike's Burning Question - Will the 29er Replace the 26-inch Downhill and All-Mountain Bike? - Pinkbike.com
    I'm surprised you could read the article.
    I'm not surprised you quoted PinkBike.
    Sorry... too easy.
    Why do people ride 26" mountain bikes? Because before there were mountain bikes cruisers built for children were the next best thing... that's the bottom line.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  5. #5
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    I think think that article was the most clever troll in awhile, I mean look at the comments section how it is on fire!


  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sakucee View Post
    I mean look at the comments section how it is on fire!

    Certainly some entertaining reading down there.
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  7. #7
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    This is what caught my eye:

    Downhill, Freeride and All-mountain have been the exclusive domain of the 26-inch-wheel format since day one, and ... the established metrics of the modern big bike are probably here to stay.

    In other words, the answer is a foregone conclusion, 26" is it. Then the very next sentence:

    Some argue, and justifiably so, that the only reason the 26-inch wheel was chosen for the sport's most advanced disciplines was simply because it was there...

    That's a matter of historical fact that RC presents as though it were up for debate. There was no engineering effort made to determine ideal wheel size, what was used was what was available (and in quantity).

    Now what is used is simply what was always used. 29ers represent the rethinking of that, but still within the confines of existing standards. The assumption that there's an ideal wheel size and we have it already is absurd. If 26ers will always rule DH/FR, as Pemberton says, due to their maneuverability then why don't DHers use 24" or even 20" wheels? They would be even more advantageous by his faulty reasoning.

    With an introduction like that, it's clear that the purpose is not to be objective. I don't agree that the Pemberton came off as more objective and he didn't provide convincing evidence any more than Sugai did. Both demonstrated fairness and an understanding of the issues but both offered a fair amount of hand-waving as well. The question is why anyone would read further after Cunningham's garbage introduction. I agree with sakucee, the article was a clever troll.

  8. #8
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    I'm actually in the process of building a 29er DH from an older 26er DH frame. It won't have specific modern 29er geometry but I'm thinking it will be a good test sled and the frame cost me $75. So I think it is worth investigation and if it doesn't work out I can use the parts for a 26er or a 9er or Lenzsport.

    Maxxis is going to be offering their Minion in 29x2.5 so then we will have 2 tires. I've tried the WTB and it is a great tire. I still wish they would offer it in a thin wall folding bead version for everything other than DH.

    I think 29er DH bikes should be built and developed even if it turns out to be a dead end, which it may not.

    I think Sugai needs to build and offer a DH bike before he is fully up to speed. Put your money where you mouth is so to speak. Sponsor a race team. I think you can afford it and if it pans out your return will be huge. If not it won't affect sales of your other models.

  9. #9
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    WOW, seriously? I haven't had a chance to read the thing yet, but just seeing who came up with it, who would ever take it as anything serious. I mean seriously, ex editor of mountain bike fiction That guy is an absolute joke and if you doubt check out his thoughts on bike fit and determining it Plus of course there's all those years of fiction he wrote for that mag. Will try to get to read it tonight and see what those queried thought and how biased they were, but straight off the bat Sugai is biased, no matter how you slice it, if not then his company is a falus (sp?)
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    WOW, seriously? I haven't had a chance to read the thing yet, but just seeing who came up with it, who would ever take it as anything serious. I mean seriously, ex editor of mountain bike fiction That guy is an absolute joke and if you doubt check out his thoughts on bike fit and determining it
    lol... agreed.
    the way the page loaded in my browser I didn't see the byline or I probably wouldn't even have skimmed it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Pinkbikes 29 vs 26 DH-AM-rcpb.jpg  

    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  11. #11
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    Good god how is he still writing words? I have followed MBA since its inception and it isn't only RC that was a doofus. I remember shoot outs between skin wall tires and black wall tires, curved forks and straight leg forks(rigid of course), 24" wheel DH bikes vs 26" wheel DH bikes.

    People like to read controversy and people like to be on the side of the majority or side of the minority. Article like this just help you feel justified in your decision you made. If you need a couple of talking heads (no offense to NINER or Norco) to help you enjoy mountain biking you should look at why you mountain bike in the first place.

    If you enjoy 29er AM then you enjoy 29er AM if you enjoy 26er AM then you enjoy 26er AM. There is no right answer except that you enjoy riding your bike on trails, whether they go up or down, have jumps or skinnies, need 8inches of travel or none is immaterial. Ride your bike whatever it is, enjoy, repeat as much as possible, try new things, try old things, just f-ing ride.
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  12. #12
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    Shoot ! Why not open up the conversation a bit.

    With advances in lightweight materials will we see the bikes designed for gnar being built with a 29 inch wheel and tank treads ?



    I know there have been some weak tank tread concept bikes but will they ever be constructed light enough to pedal ?

  13. #13
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    Simply put; if you design a 29-inch-wheel bike to have the same axle path that a 26-inch-wheel bike would have for the desired bump absorption, it will result in significantly more chain growth.

    Then do not design 29er rear wheels to have the same axle path. The is no reason to design them in the same way the 26er are.

    For longer-travel applications, the 29-inch wheel introduces too many compromises to the system

    How did Intense made it work with 2951 and Lenz with PBJ? Short CS, maneouvrable, 2951 scored 5th place in DH race.

    There are other considerations, such as bike fit - big wheels and big travel mean increased stand-over height and handlebar height.

    More sloping top tube and dropper bars- something like upside down risers. All, what he mentions, might be gotten over.

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    The way I see it there are two things that will decided the debate. What size wheel is winning the races and what size wheel is winning at the cash register.

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    Why do they even talk about 29er DH if they do not exist at large? Lenz PBJ and Intense 2951 are very rare and they lack tyres.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield View Post
    Why do they even talk about 29er DH if they do not exist at large? Lenz PBJ and Intense 2951 are very rare and they lack tyres.
    Well as you know that could have been said about all 29ers not long ago. Also as long as you have good tires you don't need a bunch of them. For a big bike I love the Dissents and the Minion is probably the number 1 DH tire on the market in 26" so if things progress as planed we will soon have that to play with, as I already said.

    It seems that the few who have tried 29er DH bikes like them. I'm certainly curious.

    I'm also not convinced that a slightly longer chainstay length is a huge concern in a DH bike. Besides if the rear triangle is designed right while taking into consideration that you don't need to clear a large chain ring you should be able to achieve a 17" csl without any funny stuff going on at the bottom bracket. You might need skinnier tires if it's really sticky muddy but downhillers are already doing that with 26ers.

    But hell my favorite bike to ride by far is my long travel fat tire bike, so I'm not a good indicator as to what the masses will accept. Not that mass appeal really applies to this discussion any how unless you are Trek or Spesh. They will jump on later if the numbers say they can make money at it.

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    I posted this in the Pinkbike article and was wondering if anyone her might know of more Fat Dad Bikes.

    I have 29ers, a rigid ss, a hardtail and a spesh stumpy 29er fsr and I love them. I will not go back to 26 inch for how and what I ride now. But, and it is a big BUT, is there a market that is not being considered right now when we talk about a 29er DH. I like to call it the fat dad market. It is people like myself. I am 35 I have two little girls and I ride when I can, I am by no means a racer or any where near competitive shape. I use to love DH (here is that BUT) but I am not a DH Racer, I am a shuttle whore or a park rider. I go out for shits and giggles, hanging with friends (other fat dads) and just enjoying the day that goes with it. I want to know why companies are not selling 29er park bikes, yes it will be a little heavier then Danny's DH uber bike, don't care if it is fun its going on a chair lift so 35-40lbs is ok with me. A 7 inch park bike could be a cool thing, don't try and sell it as a podium winner, sell it to the fat dads who want to pretend that they could win, then drink a beer and lie about how much air they got on the last run.
    P.S Dear Pinkbike if you are going to have an article on the potential of 29er DH sled why on earth would you not include LENZ and his PBJ. He claims it is competition ready, but at least he has actually built the damn thing. I think it is my fat dad bike, If I could convince my wife that clothing, shoes, girl guides and dance is all a waste of money for our children.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by stinkyto View Post
    I posted this in the Pinkbike article and was wondering if anyone her might know of more Fat Dad Bikes.

    I have 29ers, a rigid ss, a hardtail and a spesh stumpy 29er fsr and I love them. I will not go back to 26 inch for how and what I ride now. But, and it is a big BUT, is there a market that is not being considered right now when we talk about a 29er DH. I like to call it the fat dad market. It is people like myself. I am 35 I have two little girls and I ride when I can, I am by no means a racer or any where near competitive shape. I use to love DH (here is that BUT) but I am not a DH Racer, I am a shuttle whore or a park rider. I go out for shits and giggles, hanging with friends (other fat dads) and just enjoying the day that goes with it. I want to know why companies are not selling 29er park bikes, yes it will be a little heavier then Danny's DH uber bike, don't care if it is fun its going on a chair lift so 35-40lbs is ok with me. A 7 inch park bike could be a cool thing, don't try and sell it as a podium winner, sell it to the fat dads who want to pretend that they could win, then drink a beer and lie about how much air they got on the last run.
    P.S Dear Pinkbike if you are going to have an article on the potential of 29er DH sled why on earth would you not include LENZ and his PBJ. He claims it is competition ready, but at least he has actually built the damn thing. I think it is my fat dad bike, If I could convince my wife that clothing, shoes, girl guides and dance is all a waste of money for our children.
    all good points. Check this out with your wife: LenzSport PBJ for sale. all set up to go to the park.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    all good points. Check this out with your wife: LenzSport PBJ for sale. all set up to go to the park.
    If you can sell outside the 48, I am in B.C Canada.
    Plus I do not have the cash at the moment, but you never know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stinkyto View Post
    If you can sell outside the 48, I am in B.C Canada.
    Plus I do not have the cash at the moment, but you never know.
    It is not me but Mike Curiak (Mikesee). Pity as he was just in BC riding whistler with it as I recall.
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  21. #21
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    There is a perfect example. Mike can have any bike he wants, within reason, and he is building up another 29er DHer after riding one for a season or 2..

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    If you enjoy 29er AM then you enjoy 29er AM if you enjoy 26er AM then you enjoy 26er AM. There is no right answer except that you enjoy riding your bike on trails, whether they go up or down, have jumps or skinnies, need 8inches of travel or none is immaterial. Ride your bike whatever it is, enjoy, repeat as much as possible, try new things, try old things, just f-ing ride.
    So true...

    As far as points from that article go, I have to say I don't notice the reduced maneuverability of 29ers in the real world, or the extra effort needed to spin up the big wheels. I notice the extra weight of my 26" wheel, 35lb AM bike much more :P

  23. #23
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    Have to agree, my 29er feels no less agile than my old Trance 26er and I ALWAYS get comments on how fast I can accelerate, so wither I'm damn fit and fast or 29ers really aren't that hard to accelerate - I certainly ain't fit and my wheels are no weight weenies, nor are the tyres with respect to RR or weight.
    Quote Originally Posted by morphosity View Post
    So true...

    As far as points from that article go, I have to say I don't notice the reduced maneuverability of 29ers in the real world, or the extra effort needed to spin up the big wheels. I notice the extra weight of my 26" wheel, 35lb AM bike much more :P
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    I had more to say, but enough so to inspire a post:

    Bad Idea Racing: I know there are better things to get upset about...





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  25. #25
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    I ride both wheels sizes here in Arizona, a Stumpy FSR and a coil SX Trail. Both are a blast. My personal rule on which bike to take that day is this:

    If it's a shuttle run or mostly downhill, I take the SX Trail.

    If it's a pedal ride, I take the Stumpy.

    Horses for courses.

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  27. #27
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    That Cube looks sweet. Or should I say sick. No, on second thought, I shouldn't...

    I wonder if they did something to keep full travel on the fork? They say they were in partnership with Fox, so probably so. Do the stanchions look longer? That sure would be a cheap and easy fix. You hear that FOX!!!

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    Try this: HTFU

  29. #29
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    I thought it looked like a 26er but figured it was just the thick rims and trusted the article...

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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    I wonder if they did something to keep full travel on the fork?
    Yes, they kept the wheels 26".

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    I thought it looked like a 26er but figured it was just the thick rims and trusted the article...
    Nowhere (including the title) does the article state that particular model is a 29'er.

    Pinkbike is actually going downhill (no pun intended) with the addition of RC, and Mountain Bike Fiction seems to be improving. Much as I respect RC's contribution to the sport, he's a horrible writer.

    As for the debate, interesting that Chris Sugai made no there's no discussion on how well 29'ers jump. Steezy airtime is the main allure for FR/DH riders...and one area where 26'ers have an advantage...Not sure a slope-style 29'er will win any fans.

    I don't think I can ever own or buy a niner after reading that article.

  32. #32
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    Yes you all are totally right. I "assumed" that if someone posted a pic and a link with that tag line under it, in this thread, that it would be a 29er. Should have looked closer.

    Craigsj lol

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    konahonzo

  34. #34
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    Out of curiosity, there are a lot of videos of 26 inch riders doing jumps, trials, all mountain riding etc, You never see videos of riders on 29ers doing the same. Its time for those that claim 29 is better for everything to at least show us some video evidence. Anybody have any videos of extreme 29er riding?
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    Since this is not a trial and you're in here trolling I'll politely tell you to go search for them yourself as you clearly are against 29ers, do not frequent the forum or you'd have seen a load of them, try searching here for a guy named MikeSee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whason View Post
    Out of curiosity, there are a lot of videos of 26 inch riders doing jumps, trials, all mountain riding etc, You never see videos of riders on 29ers doing the same. Its time for those that claim 29 is better for everything to at least show us some video evidence. Anybody have any videos of extreme 29er riding?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whason View Post
    Out of curiosity, there are a lot of videos of 26 inch riders doing jumps, trials, all mountain riding etc, You never see videos of riders on 29ers doing the same. Its time for those that claim 29 is better for everything to at least show us some video evidence. Anybody have any videos of extreme 29er riding?
    Beside what LyNx said check this here:

    Dirt jumps and pump tracks and air on a 29er

    now this was in 2005 by a guy named Canfield on a borrowed bike.

    and this:

    Whistler 2011.

    just recently by the aforementioned Mike Curiak

    then there is this which pretty much proves it doesn't matter what kind of bike you ride:

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/5z1fSpZNXhU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    and here are a couple of more guys getting stylish on 29ers...well CX bikes. Once again proof that what the rider brings to the show is much more important than what they ride.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rxC7rgeTGck" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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    While I don't really see the advantage of a 29er for gravity applications at this point, I certainly do think they have a very real place in the trail market simply because they climb so well. Not to say that they can't be just as good for gravity riding but all the ones that I have ridden have been less than interresting on the downhill. And it is true, you never see anyone ripping on a 29er like you do on a 26. That Whistler video posted above is pretty tame in comparrison to how people rip those same lines on 26ers. However, that being said, the Transition guys sure know how to ride a 29er so lets keep an open mind and see what the future brings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whason View Post
    Out of curiosity, there are a lot of videos of 26 inch riders doing jumps, trials, all mountain riding etc, You never see videos of riders on 29ers doing the same. Its time for those that claim 29 is better for everything to at least show us some video evidence. Anybody have any videos of extreme 29er riding?
    While not extreme, there is some decent B-roll of all mountainy-ish goodness and a few jumps in this video:

    <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/21424346?byline=0" width="400" height="225" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/21424346">Twenty Nine Inches</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/brianpark">Brian Park</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

    I think the bike is a Specialized with an angleset.
    Extreme stationary biker.

  39. #39
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    Here is some no-brakes, crap-bike with big wheels shredding courtesy of Chris Akrigg.

    However, he rides all kinds of bikes with different wheel sizes, so I don't think we can include him in Chris Sugoi's "29'ers are the future of FR/DH club".



    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0htASyZQvEU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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    Well that guy is one of the chosen few. More impressive than 29" is skinny and no brakes with a freewheel.

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    No trolling. I ride a sultan 29er. It was a serious question. I also have 26 inch hardtail and a 26 inch all mountain bike.

    BTW I had my wheels for my Sultan built by MIkesee. HIs real name is Mike Curiak, and he really is more of an endurance rider than a all mountain crazy technical rider. (Mind you he has probably forgotten more about mountain biking than I know)
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whason View Post
    BTW I had my wheels for my Sultan built by MIkesee. HIs real name is Mike Curiak, and he really is more of an endurance rider than a all mountain crazy technical rider. (Mind you he has probably forgotten more about mountain biking than I know)
    but you're not familiar with his videos?
    Mike's been pushing the envelope and documenting his buddies who do the same for quite a while. He's posted more 29er air time on this forum than everyone else combined, with probably a double digit multiplier.
    and you call Whistler and the various park riding he's been stoked on the last couple of years "endurance?"
    here's an idea: why don't you buy his PBJ and throw everything you've got at it... then post up your own vids? we'd all appreciate it, and the bike can handle whatever you've got... maybe.
    i only wish i had handy the terrain to justify that beauty of a beast... i'd snatch it up in a heartbeat, if he's still got it (unlikely).
    Last edited by meltingfeather; 12-02-2011 at 06:18 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  43. #43
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    I love these threads, you can tell winter is closing in.

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    Definitely not trying to troll with this response. But check out Mike's resume.

    Lace Mine 29 - Resume

    He placed first in the Great Divide race 2004 (it takes 2-4 weeks to finish this solo self supported torture race)

    The Kokopelli race

    The 340 mIle Grand loop race

    He also has the world record in iditasport impossible some crazy bike ride through snow and ice.

    The list goes on and on,,, He is sort of a long distance riding freak.

    I've seen the last 4 or 5 of his videos, they have excellent music, very high production value, and beautiful still photos. That guy kind of personifies what is the mountainbike lifestyle. But as for crazy all mountain stunts or downhill riding, thats not really what he does.

    As for the PBJ, I haven't ridden one, I do think those Lenz frames are quite nice.
    "Chancho. When you are a man sometimes you wear stretchy pants... Its for fun..."

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mitzikatzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    I love these threads, you can tell winter is closing in.
    Is winter is a good time to sell your bike?

    Whats the most profitable way to sell a bike?
    Duct tape iz like teh Force. It has a Lite side and a Dark side and it holdz the Universe together.

  46. #46
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whason View Post
    Definitely not trying to troll with this response. But check out Mike's resume.

    The list goes on and on,,, He is sort of a long distance riding freak.
    ...
    But as for crazy all mountain stunts or downhill riding, thats not really what he does..
    Here's his research into long travel riding that led to the 29er Sun MTX33.
    Read through it, sounds like he's beating the hell out of his bikes.

    Big Wheel Building: Meaty beaty big and bouncy.



    (edit: 29er version of MTX33 duh)
    Last edited by schnee; 12-04-2011 at 12:51 AM.

  47. #47
    Frys With That, Please
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    29'er it is.
    2012 Cannondale Trail SL 29ER 4

    1994 Cannondale Super V 1000

    1996 Cannondale F500 rigid-fork 69'er

    Motiv 26'er

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    I'm surprised you could read the article.
    I'm not surprised you quoted PinkBike.
    Sorry... too easy.
    Why do people ride 26" mountain bikes? Because before there were mountain bikes cruisers built for children were the next best thing... that's the bottom line.
    Its so funny to see so many MTBR members rank on pink bike,when most of the pink bikers could just destroy the old farts on MTBR...
    Check out some on the P.B. vids,the talent level is insane...

  49. #49
    Killer of Chains
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    I'm a user on PinkBike. The forums aren't as active and it certain is geared more towards media than it is discussion.

    But there is a reason why the 29er hasn't invaded the downhill and freeride scene. Does that mean they won't eventually? Nope. I can definitely see them being a weapon of choice for certain types of terrain and certain types of races with certain racers.

    I can also see the 29" wheel being pushed by many companies as the end-all-be-all of mountain bike technology, and forcing their teams to ride them, and making us all think that we need them in order to be cool.

    With that said, I've loved my 29er hard tail, but there is something more than just the geometry that makes it feel funny in the air...its those big centrifugal forces keeping those wheels going straight. Does it make for a more stable ride? Yes. Does it make it more fun? That's up to you.

  50. #50
    transmitter~receiver
    Reputation: meltingfeather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whason View Post
    But as for crazy all mountain stunts or downhill riding, thats not really what he does.
    Yeah it is. You're just missing it.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

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