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  1. #1
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    Picking a long travel all mountain 29er

    Looking for a long legged climber with ~150mm travel that can turn around at the top and smash technical downhills.

    Top pics: GG Smash, Transition Sentinel, Trek Slash, Pivot Switchblade, YT Capra, Canfield Riot.

    I ride mostly in the Eastern Sierras, long climbs that can be technical, descents that are technical, anything from scree slopes and off trail baby heads to boulder hopping and rock drops. When I travel to ride itís usually to St George, Moab, Grand Junction. In Moab last week I played around on a few bikes, Intense Tracer (no likey), Switchblade (like), Stash(like). I have a little time on a Riot (kinda like). Never seen YT or GG.

    I currently ride a Lenz Fatillac 150mm travel 27+/27 BFat, Wozo 29+/27BFat and an overshocked Devinci Hendrix 27+. I used to ride 29 single speed, geared 29 (Honzo) and fs 29 (Atlas). Over time Iíve been riding longer and harder, occasional park riding, but mostly epics with technical downhills. I like to ride fast and I really enjoy popping off natural features. Iím selling the Fatillac, my brother is riding the Hendrix, Iím keeping the Wozo.

    What I want different from my current and past rides: The Hendrix is a great bike, slacked out and overshocked 130/125/66 deg it rides biggger and faster than its geo suggests, but it gets overwhelmed when the features get big. The Fatillac is a beast, not light, kinda harsh riding, not as plush as Iíd like. The Atlas was an old school XC ride that I used to transition from the Honzo to full suspension.

    Wants in order of importance:
    Climbing efficiency
    Traction
    Plush
    Stable at speed
    Short chainstays
    2.6-2.8 tire capacity
    Coil compatible
    High B.B.
    Threaded B.B.

  2. #2
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    Thatís a list. Do you want it to be light and cheap, too? ☺️

    Seriously, your list of wants in order seems different than the rest of your post. Climbing efficiency most important and plush in third? The remainder of the post I read as more downhill performance in big tech and gnar.

    Anyway, I ride tech in Phx and like to go fast. Iíve personally owned three of the rigs you listed (Smash, Riot and Blade). I rode a Slash in the parking lot and would love a true demo. Same with the Sentinel. YT gets a lot of love, but never seems to actually have bikes in stock to sell.

    I didnít much care for any of them from a performance perspective. To be completely honest and as much as I hate to say it in public, my custom Ď17 Stumpy comp carbon blows away the other three bikes from your list that I owned. I feel much the same way about the Enduro. As much as I donít care for Specialized as a company, the bikes just work for me in this terrain.

    From your list of bikes and your performance criteria, Iíd say the Smash checks the most boxes. However, I did not find it to be plush at all and got overwhelmed in chop at speed (though not as bad as the Riot).

    Lot of great bikes in that space, though, so your search should be fun.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  3. #3
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    Light is not on the list, nor is cheap, I donít really need or want carbon, aluminum is fine stuff.

    I ride a bike now that doesnít check enough boxes, thatís why Iím on the hunt.

    Iím not opposed to Specialized, my wife rides a Levo, Trek is fine too, though Iíd prefer to support a smaller company.

    YT is on the list, but as you said, limited stock and I have not seen theiir bikes in person.

    So what bike approximates the ride and feel of your Stumpy?

  4. #4
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    Just busting your chops, dude.

    Iíve owned a lot of bikes. The newer Stumpy is really a bit of a unicorn. In that mid-travel 29er do-it-all realm, not sure Iíve owned a bike that worked better for me. It is, still, 135 travel. The DVO Topaz and a burly 150 fork blur that a bit, but not sure Iíd race it on an EWS course. Iíll ride it down most anything in Arizona, though. And climb back up.

    Again, just based on your criteria, the Smash checks the most boxes. Cool company, climbs much better than youíd expect. I didnít like the descending performance personally and thatís most important for me.

    Have you considered a Banshee Prime? Great performer with air or coil, good pedaler, shredder on the downs, pretty cheap. I liked that bike more than anything on your list that Iíve owned.

    Otherwise, if there are park days and big techy steeps on your horizon, the E29 is a beast and a decent pedaler with a proper shock. Or the Slash.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  5. #5
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    The prime looks good until you get to the 17+Ē chainstays

    Iíll scope out the Specialized and check into GG demos. Transition is worthy, but I need s demo before buying.

    Of these bikes, do any take a 2.6-2.8Ē?

  6. #6
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    Have you looked at the Knolly Fugitive LT? Its 135mm with a 150mm fork. The only odd thing about it is the 157mm hub spacing, but it is not Pivot's super boost spacing. The Smash and Fugitive seem to be very close competitors.

  7. #7
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    Whyte s150, pole evolink 140 or 158, Machine, Nicolai geometron and Bird aeris am9. Lots of nice bikes that probably would suit your needs. The yt capra is also very nice. The old one was a really good bike. The new one is probably just as good or better.

  8. #8
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    I'm happy with my Slash.

    No threaded BB, but it's not super-low. IMO many bikes are too low... my 27.5 Slash was a little too low, the new 9er version is a bit higher and it's so much better.

    It also probably has the lightest, stiffest and most impact resistant frame. The shock also contributes to excellent pedaling efficiency yet is also fairly plush.

    Some direct sale brands probably offer better value but you might make some sacrifices in geo and frame quality imo.

    In addition to your list of preferences I'd add a progressive frame rate, although this is implied with "coil compatible", many linear spring rate frames still come with coil shocks.

  9. #9
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    What about the Orbea Rallon or Scott Genius? I got to demo a Rallon and was pretty impressed. I was ready to not like the climbing performance because of the suspension linkage, or descending performance for any number of reasons, but the bike was good. Next month it looks like I'll get to demo a Genius on the same trail.

  10. #10
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    When you say you want climbing efficiency and traction, but also keeping it plush, VPP immediately comes to mind.

    Have you had a look at the Hightower LT? I think it ticks all your boxes except for tire clearance. The website notes 2.5 as the max.
    The cake is a lie.

  11. #11
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    I'm thinking DW link.
    Do the math.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    What about the Orbea Rallon or Scott Genius? I got to demo a Rallon and was pretty impressed. I was ready to not like the climbing performance because of the suspension linkage, or descending performance for any number of reasons, but the bike was good. Next month it looks like I'll get to demo a Genius on the same trail.
    Rallon is very close to a copy of the Slash with too-low BB and linear suspension curve making it a poor choice for the coil shocks it comes with.

    Despite this, they copied the Slash close enough to make it decent.

  13. #13
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    Ben,
    Looking for something a bit more on the long travel, wagon wheeled fun machine huh! Close to what I have with my old StumpJumper FSR clone, currently running 150/130 and climbs great.

    Few more that you may want to look at;
    - Cotic RocketMAX
    - Nukeprook Mega 290
    - Knolly Fugitive

  14. #14
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    Great feedback guys, that's what I'm looking for.

    I am a DW fanboy, so looking at those options.

    I spent a weekend on the Hightower and Tallboy, swapped wheels, didn't like either, so I may not be a VPP person.

    I rode a Knolly, it's a couple years ago, didn't like the ride of the design (linkage was messy). Not sure I want to go there.

    Rallon looks good, it's on my list.

    Slash is always on my list, but do you really think the frame can take a lickin'?

    Scott Genius is an option, just need to get over the name

    I got a GG demo in the works, going to demo a Transtion this weekend.

    Due to my riding choices, I need a higher bb, so low bb bikes are not gonna work for me; I even run 165mm cranks to reduce hits. I prefer a higher COG, it works with a big dropper.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post

    Slash is always on my list, but do you really think the frame can take a lickin'?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=hWqdFlvzdQk

    It's also the most impact resistant choice, apparently.

    The stiffness of this frame is an advantage that also shouldn't be overlooked.

    One downside though... the 9.7 and 9.8 use aluminum chainstays. You have to buy the '17 or the frame-only to get carbon chainstays.

  16. #16
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    Well, the DW Link log travel 29er bike was just released. Ibis Ripmo. It's at the top of the All Mountain and latest articles pages. Might want to check that one out.

  17. #17
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    Definitely give the Specialized Enduro a good look. I ride up as much as I ride down and find it to be a well balanced all mountain bike. Very capable in a variety of terrain. I've been on a 17' Elite 29er with 2.6 tires as well as the 27.5+ option.

    I find the 29er to be a little slower in acceleration than the 27.5+ but when pointed down the hill, the 29er comes alive. Stable, planted, responds well to body English etc.

    The 27.5+ is my favorite set up. 3.0 HRII in the front and 2.8 DHRII set up tubeless on 36id carbon wheels. Climbs anything. Going down, line choice is irrelevant. It eats up small bumps and baby heads.

  18. #18
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    You have to check out the new ibis ripmo that looks like a very promising bike

  19. #19
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    The Smash with a 160 fork has a B.B. if 351mm. 348 with a 150 and 345 with a 140. Threaded B.B. and climbs pretty well. And descends with the best of them.
    I no longer like to party. But I like the idea of it.
    GG BAMF - Eastern NC

  20. #20
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    Whoa, that's what I'm talking about!

    See, this is why I take part in MTBR, tips, getting heads up on stuff I didn't know about.

    I love Ibis, great quality, ride excellent, durable, almost got a Mojo 3 a few years back.

    but ya gotta pay to play, 3k for a frameset, ouch!

    Now to find one to demo...

    Anyone got time on a Ripmo yet?

    EDIT: Just talked to LBS, they are awaiting news on availability, if it's available I'll do a frame up, gonna shoot for a Coil IL, Fox 36 (MRP or CC Coil would be cool if they have a 44mm offset), DT hubs and Duroc rims, SRAM GX drivetrain with 165mm cranks, Yoke 170 dropper, my kind of special build

    Quote Originally Posted by beer_coffee_water View Post
    Well, the DW Link log travel 29er bike was just released. Ibis Ripmo. It's at the top of the All Mountain and latest articles pages. Might want to check that one out.

  21. #21
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    I believe the Ripmo leverage curve suggests incompatibility with a coil shock.
    Do the math.

  22. #22
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    I've been looking at some of the same bikes. I want something a little toward the trail end, as we do a ton of climbing/peddling where we ride, but also some pretty techie downs. I'm giving pretty serious thought to the Rocky Mountain Instinct, too.

  23. #23
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    Picking a long travel all mountain 29er

    The Ripmo has ridiculously low B.B. at 341mm. Almost as low as my Fuel EX. Iíd expect a ton of pedal and chainring strikes when the going gets gnarly.
    I no longer like to party. But I like the idea of it.
    GG BAMF - Eastern NC

  24. #24
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    Rumor has it Turner will be announcing an updated Sultan at Sea Otter shortly. If the speculation (on the Turner forum) is correct, it seems likely to be a 29er version of the RFX with a bit less travel. It would be great to get a leg over both of those bikes!

  25. #25
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    Why not Evil Wreckoning? Flat AS curve that will pedal well and great bike/company overall. I had the E29, wouldn't go there again, just too soggy climbing, low pivot also doesn't react well to big square impacts, but you can do much better IME.

    Edit: I see you need 2.8 tires or so, I don't know/think that'll work on this one.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  26. #26
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    If you want a bike that can do slow crawl trials stuff, to technical climbs, than blast down technical trails, and climb efficiently the Canfield Riot/Tior is your answer....But you need a good rear shock to keep it happy on square hits on the down hill parts.

  27. #27
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    How come nobody keeps mentioning the Marin Wolf Ridge?
    =sParty
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113 View Post
    Rallon is very close to a copy of the Slash with too-low BB and linear suspension curve making it a poor choice for the coil shocks it comes with.

    Despite this, they copied the Slash close enough to make it decent.
    Are we talking about the same bike? I rode a bike with a Fox 36 air fork and a very large Fox air can shock of some description. I didn't see a coil anywhere.

  29. #29
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    Why isnt there any Intense bikes on this list?

  30. #30
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    Picking a long travel all mountain 29er

    Quote Originally Posted by almazing View Post
    The Ripmo has ridiculously low B.B. at 341mm. Almost as low as my Fuel EX. Iíd expect a ton of pedal and chainring strikes when the going gets gnarly.
    The extremely low B.B. seems iffy. At full compression ó-pedal is almost on the ground and for shorter riders if seatpost is lowered all the way it will contact rear wheel if using long 180+ dropper.


  31. #31
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    That appears to be a problem, so stepping back a bit, still looking around.

    Quote Originally Posted by almazing View Post
    The Ripmo has ridiculously low B.B. at 341mm. Almost as low as my Fuel EX. Iíd expect a ton of pedal and chainring strikes when the going gets gnarly.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by attaboy View Post
    The extremely low B.B. seems iffy. At full compression ó-pedal is almost on the ground and for shorter riders if seatpost is lowered all the way it will contact rear wheel if using long 180+ dropper.

    You wouldn't be peddling at full compression with a lot of bikes in the 330mm range these days above 340mm BB is refreshing. 345mm would be better though.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by R_Pierce View Post
    Why isnt there any Intense bikes on this list?
    Because they keep spamming the boards.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Because they keep spamming the boards.
    Lol. Ok

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    Are we talking about the same bike? I rode a bike with a Fox 36 air fork and a very large Fox air can shock of some description. I didn't see a coil anywhere.
    Lol, so your sample of 1 represents all Rallons?

    They are OFFERED with a coil shock, and often pictured with one in their promo materials.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Why not Evil Wreckoning? Flat AS curve that will pedal well and great bike/company overall. I had the E29, wouldn't go there again, just too soggy climbing, low pivot also doesn't react well to big square impacts, but you can do much better IME.

    Edit: I see you need 2.8 tires or so, I don't know/think that'll work on this one.
    The Evil was on my short list but

    -low bb

    -poor tire clearance

    -heavy-ish frame

    -steep HA (relatively)


    SO MANY bikes on the market but so many with flaws. It's like trying to find the right gf, lol.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    How come nobody keeps mentioning the Marin Wolf Ridge?
    =sParty
    Flexy rear end.

    Damn, I'm picky...

  38. #38
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    As Iíve said before, The Smash is a great choice. High B.B. with a 160 at 351mm. My build comes in at 31.5 lbs with pedals. Itís a very well balanced bike and weight distribution is on point. I had a 2018 Nukeproof Mega 290 Factory before moving all the parts over to my Smash. And for my riding style and abilities, the Smash is a better bike and easier and less fatiguing to ride. And itís hand made in Colorado.
    I no longer like to party. But I like the idea of it.
    GG BAMF - Eastern NC

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by attaboy View Post
    The extremely low B.B. seems iffy. At full compression ó-pedal is almost on the ground and for shorter riders if seatpost is lowered all the way it will contact rear wheel if using long 180+ dropper.

    Especially bad if you let all of the air out of you shock and fork!

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113 View Post
    Flexy rear end.

    Damn, I'm picky...
    Oops, sorry, I forgot to include the smiley.
    =s

  41. #41
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    Yup, leaning that way for all the reasons:

    Coil
    Build Choices
    Domestic made
    High BB
    Great name

    Is the Smash set up for 44mm offset forks; I couldn't find the answer.

    So for BB heights, honestly, I look at the numbers and I kinda wonder sometimes if "high" is really all that high. My Fatillac, which I think of as being a high bb is 348mm. If "low" is 341 (Ripmo), we're only talking about 7mm (~1/4") which is nearly the difference between 175mm and 170mm cranks.

    I think the suspension response also plays a part, having a suspension that isn't as progressive will tend to bob when you want it to "weave".

    Any love for the Transition Sentinel? Any downsides, love Transition, but not a lot of time on their bikes, new geo and fork offset look interesting.

    The Canfield Riot gets mentioned occasionally, I have a brief ride on one, my buddy loves his, but I kinda wonder how it would be to climb all day; my buddy is a youngin' so he doesn't care what he rides.

    Quote Originally Posted by almazing View Post
    As Iíve said before, The Smash is a great choice. High B.B. with a 160 at 351mm. My build comes in at 31.5 lbs with pedals. Itís a very well balanced bike and weight distribution is on point. I had a 2018 Nukeproof Mega 290 Factory before moving all the parts over to my Smash. And for my riding style and abilities, the Smash is a better bike and easier and less fatiguing to ride. And itís hand made in Colorado.

  42. #42
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    Is 341mm on a 145mm rear bike really that low? Itís 5mm taller then the HTLT which I just demoíd and didnít notice any pedal strikes in technical climbing sections. Itís a hair taller then the Switchblade on 29 wheels. Itís a touch lower then the SB5.5, but the Ripmo has clearance for 2.6 if extra height is wanted. Iíve been waiting for a frame with these exact numbers for a long time.... just hope it rides the same!

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Yup, leaning that way for all the reasons:

    Coil
    Build Choices
    Domestic made
    High BB
    Great name

    Is the Smash set up for 44mm offset forks; I couldn't find the answer.

    So for BB heights, honestly, I look at the numbers and I kinda wonder sometimes if "high" is really all that high. My Fatillac, which I think of as being a high bb is 348mm. If "low" is 341 (Ripmo), we're only talking about 7mm (~1/4") which is nearly the difference between 175mm and 170mm cranks.

    I think the suspension response also plays a part, having a suspension that isn't as progressive will tend to bob when you want it to "weave".

    Any love for the Transition Sentinel? Any downsides, love Transition, but not a lot of time on their bikes, new geo and fork offset look interesting.

    The Canfield Riot gets mentioned occasionally, I have a brief ride on one, my buddy loves his, but I kinda wonder how it would be to climb all day; my buddy is a youngin' so he doesn't care what he rides.
    I'm not young, I suck at climbing, and I can climb all day on the Riot. I vacation in WNC and I'll demo bikes there for the fun of it. My coiled Riot climbed better than the HTLT.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    The Canfield Riot gets mentioned occasionally, I have a brief ride on one, my buddy loves his, but I kinda wonder how it would be to climb all day; my buddy is a youngin' so he doesn't care what he rides.
    I'm on a Canfield Balance with a coil, and I've been extremely pleased with its climbing. The CBF linkage works very well. I would compare it to a dw-link that can remain more active in technical rocky situations. The climbing position is also good, with the STA is steep enough to keep the front end down given the short rear end.

    If you know you like short chainstays, they don't come any shorter than the Riot.

  45. #45
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    I am also on a Balance with a coil. It is my first FS. It will climb anything I am able to. It just finds traction. My build is heavy and I don't have a dropper currently so I do a lot of standing while climbing. It's not the best way but it does work. A dropper is next for my build.

  46. #46
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    Ben - Something else to consider... OTE Tahoe is having their trade-in program currently so you could go see what they currently are stocking (know they do Knolly but thing Pivot and Trek as well), or you could look at the Norco Sight/Range as there is a Norco dealer in Reno and they do demos.

  47. #47
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    I love short chainstays, 16.25" on both of my current bikes. That's always been the attraction of the Riot.

    Quote Originally Posted by lazarus2405 View Post
    I'm on a Canfield Balance with a coil, and I've been extremely pleased with its climbing. The CBF linkage works very well. I would compare it to a dw-link that can remain more active in technical rocky situations. The climbing position is also good, with the STA is steep enough to keep the front end down given the short rear end.

    If you know you like short chainstays, they don't come any shorter than the Riot.

  48. #48
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    The Smash is a fantastic climber, and has many suspension and frame chip options to get to your idea of DH bliss.

    I wouldn't necessarily put stock in a lukewarm DH performance assessment from someone who buys a new bike every few months and professes to not know much about suspension.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by She&I View Post
    The Smash is a fantastic climber, and has many suspension and frame chip options to get to your idea of DH bliss.

    I wouldn't necessarily put stock in a lukewarm DH performance assessment from someone who buys a new bike every few months and professes to not know much about suspension.
    If you're talking about Blatant I would put ALL your stock in his performance assessments. That dude has owned and ridden more bikes than I can dream of and his location means he knows exactly how a bike will handle downhill in rough terrain.

    His assessment of the Riot lines up exactly with mine. I would expect others to be reliable as well.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by She&I View Post
    The Smash is a fantastic climber, and has many suspension and frame chip options to get to your idea of DH bliss.

    I wouldn't necessarily put stock in a lukewarm DH performance assessment from someone who buys a new bike every few months and professes to not know much about suspension.
    I assume youíre talking about me. At least be a man and just say what you mean.

    How many bikes I buy isnít relevant. Nor is whether or not I have an engineering degree. Iíve been riding a minute in pretty gnarly terrain. I know what works for me and what doesnít. I was a GG BAMF, too, but I did the honorable thing when I found out after six weeks of trying that I just didnít get on with the bike.

    No harm, no foul from my end. Not sure why the passive-aggressive drama from your end. If the bike is working for you, thatís great. I gave my assessment. End of story.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113 View Post
    The Evil was on my short list but

    -low bb

    -poor tire clearance

    -heavy-ish frame

    -steep HA (relatively)


    SO MANY bikes on the market but so many with flaws. It's like trying to find the right gf, lol.
    I would ask this: How slack does it need to be? As in 29ers are already more stable than smaller wheel sizes and if you are endoing on a 29er, you probably have other serious issues rather than the HA being too steep. IME, they are excellent at avoiding wheel-catchers and abrupt transitions that will flip other bikes at DH resorts, all without being crazy slack.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec113 View Post
    Lol, so your sample of 1 represents all Rallons?

    They are OFFERED with a coil shock, and often pictured with one in their promo materials.
    Fair enough. I haven't looked at much promotional material. I tend not to, actually. All I have to go on is the bikes that were on the demo van. After riding the bike, liking it, and asking who locally sold them, I got a pause and then the rep answered "no one for a couple states around here yet" at which point I basically wrote off the idea of actually buying one. That doesn't change the fact that I liked it. But yeah, given how it rode with an air shock, I wouldn't think a coil would be the right direction for it. So we've learned I don't read promotional stuff, and the Rallon can be had with either coil or air, and presumably won't work well with a coil (nothing but numbers to back that up) but it does work well with air.

    Thanks for the insight.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Looking for a long legged climber with ~150mm travel that can turn around at the top and smash technical downhills.




    Wants in order of importance:
    Climbing efficiency
    Traction
    Plush
    Stable at speed
    Short chainstays
    2.6-2.8 tire capacity
    Coil compatible
    High B.B.
    Threaded B.B.
    I'm curious about your list. Some of your items seem to be antithetical to each other: stable at speed vs short chainstays, high BB vs stable at speed, plus tires vs climbing efficiency vs smashing technical descents at speed (the plus tires are going to have to be light duty for climbing or heavy for rough descents). I'm just wondering if these are possible combinations or just a wish list?

  54. #54
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    Not really, stability is not directly impacted by high bb and short chainstays, I have a bike now that is very stable at high speeds and has 16.25 stays and a 14" bb. Sometimes things are not quite so clear, kinda like having a slack head tube makes the front end push out or wallow, which we all know is not always the case.

    I have been riding plus since before plus was plus, heavy is no longer the case, plus tires are quite light if you choose correctly. More traction is worth the extra weight, kinda like more suspension is worth the weight.

    So yeah, these combos work and do exist in the wild. May of the bikes mentioned cover my needs, it's now a question of which compromises I want to make. What I need to know, probably from a demo, is how they climb and how they handle the little stuff; all of them handle the big stuff with tuning.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    I'm curious about your list. Some of your items seem to be antithetical to each other: stable at speed vs short chainstays, high BB vs stable at speed, plus tires vs climbing efficiency vs smashing technical descents at speed (the plus tires are going to have to be light duty for climbing or heavy for rough descents). I'm just wondering if these are possible combinations or just a wish list?

  55. #55
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    Another vote for the GG Smash. In the process of swapping over from an E29 right now. The 140 rear feels like a lot more than 140. Pedals way more efficiently than the E29. I don't mean climbing, I mean sprinting. Exiting corners, flats, etc. It obviously climbs better too but I was happy with how the E29 climbed seated. It can also run a proper coil, and with a 160 fork it checks all the boxes. It'll be about a pound heavier than my full carbon E29 but most of that weight is in the 11-6 that out performs every other shock on the market. I believe it will fit plus tires too but that's not my jam. Mine is specifically being setup to race Enduro.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Not really, stability is not directly impacted by high bb and short chainstays, I have a bike now that is very stable at high speeds and has 16.25 stays and a 14" bb. Sometimes things are not quite so clear, kinda like having a slack head tube makes the front end push out or wallow, which we all know is not always the case.

    I have been riding plus since before plus was plus, heavy is no longer the case, plus tires are quite light if you choose correctly. More traction is worth the extra weight, kinda like more suspension is worth the weight.

    So yeah, these combos work and do exist in the wild. May of the bikes mentioned cover my needs, it's now a question of which compromises I want to make. What I need to know, probably from a demo, is how they climb and how they handle the little stuff; all of them handle the big stuff with tuning.

    I missed the stable requirement... I'd pass on the Canfield. It's an extremely nimble bike great for twisty chunky trails. You can tune out what people are talking about it not handling choppy trails, but you can't stretch the wheel base. The smash, The Wreconing, the new Ibis, or the new Knolly will be much more stable. I'd also pass on the Piviot it feels like a Riot with a lowBB
    If I didn't live on the East cost, and rode more open trails and needed 29er right now the Smash or Wreconing would be high on my list.

  57. #57
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    I know Niner is not one of the cool kids right now, but new RIP 9 RDO checks a lot your boxes-150mm travel, high threaded B.B., good climber, great traction, they have a build with 11-6 shock. I have older model and run 2.6 tires; mind you, I donít ride in mud. New model has more tire clearance.

  58. #58
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    I live up in South Lake Tahoe and have been quite impressed with my Size Large Riot/Toir's performance on local trails. I don't ride park and/or spend any time on significant jumps--I use the bike for general trail riding. My Riot/Toir is set up with 29er wheels, a DVO Diamond fork, a DVO Topaz rear shock and a 31 mm Apex Renthal stem (I am @ 180 lbs, 5'11" with a 32" inseam). Despite the Riot/Toir's heft (32 to 33 lbs?), I don't feel that the bike holds me back much on long local climbs (it climbs like an efficient trail bike, not a race bike). It is a composed bike on technical climbs. The bike also feels extremely composed on steep, rough, and tight technical descents like Mr. Toads (the DVO suspension components probably play a big role in that performance). My primary reason for purchasing the Riot/Toir was the geometry (i.e. steep seat angle and short chain stays) and value in the used bike market (i.e. it was an affordable way to try out the latest geometry trend). I really, really, really like the steep seat angle---it just works for my body dimensions and I feel like I am in an ideal climbing position. I do wish that the Riot/Toir had clearance for 29 x 2.6 tires but that is not the case. I have to admit that I am intrigued with the geometry (steep seat tube), travel, tire clearance, ability to carry a water bottle in the frame, and lighter weight of the Ibis Ripmo, but I am going to take a wait and see approach on any potential upgrades.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by attaboy View Post
    I know Niner is not one of the cool kids right now, but new RIP 9 RDO checks a lot your boxes-150mm travel, high threaded B.B., good climber, great traction, they have a build with 11-6 shock. I have older model and run 2.6 tires; mind you, I donít ride in mud. New model has more tire clearance.
    I was thinking the same thing as I own the new RIP RDO and a Wreckoning. The RIP is just such a solid trail bike and hits as many of the OP's wants as any other bike available.

    The AS curve says the RIP should sink into it's travel under power like traditional FSR but I have not found that to be the case. It is supportive under power, pedals well through rough terrain, and provides great traction up loose climbs (better than the Wreckoning). It kind of has a Goldilocks feel in my opinion...somewhere in the middle is "just right."

    To the OP's list (excellent, very good, good, fair, poor):

    Climbing efficiency- very good
    Traction-excellent
    Plush-good
    Stable at speed-good
    Short chainstays-fair
    2.6-2.8 tires-very good
    Coil-excellent
    High BB-fair
    Threaded BB-excellent

    My opinion on downsides: BB a bit too low at 13.4" with Schwalbe 2.35 tires and 160 Yari. Head angle a bit too steep (I use a -1 Works Components for 66 deg). Chainstays at the long end of acceptable at 17.3". Seat tube way too long (21.5" on XL means I can only use a 125mm dropper).

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by titusquasi View Post
    I was thinking the same thing as I own the new RIP RDO and a Wreckoning. The RIP is just such a solid trail bike and hits as many of the OP's wants as any other bike available.

    The AS curve says the RIP should sink into it's travel under power like traditional FSR but I have not found that to be the case. It is supportive under power, pedals well through rough terrain, and provides great traction up loose climbs (better than the Wreckoning). It kind of has a Goldilocks feel in my opinion...somewhere in the middle is "just right."

    To the OP's list (excellent, very good, good, fair, poor):

    Climbing efficiency- very good
    Traction-excellent
    Plush-good
    Stable at speed-good
    Short chainstays-fair
    2.6-2.8 tires-very good
    Coil-excellent
    High BB-fair
    Threaded BB-excellent

    My opinion on downsides: BB a bit too low at 13.4" with Schwalbe 2.35 tires and 160 Yari. Head angle a bit too steep (I use a -1 Works Components for 66 deg). Chainstays at the long end of acceptable at 17.3". Seat tube way too long (21.5" on XL means I can only use a 125mm dropper).
    For comparison with my Wreckoning.

    Wreckoning suspension feels softer off the top and deeper at the end than the RIP RDO. Otherwise both bikes feel and handle very similar (with the -1 HS on the RIP).

    Wreckoning:

    Climbing efficiency-very good
    Traction-good
    Plush-very good
    Stable at speed-good
    Short chainstays-good
    2.6-2.8 tires-poor
    Coil-excellent
    High BB-fair
    Threaded BB-excellent

    The Wreckoning could be a little higer in the BB (13.4" stock) and slacker in the head angle. It isn't massively stable at high speeds but the trade off is that it is surprisingly spry at normal speeds. The tire clearance needs to be better but 2.5 Minion DHFs fit with plenty of clearance. I wish it was longer in reach with the same stack (XL).

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by titusquasi View Post
    For comparison with my Wreckoning.

    Wreckoning suspension feels softer off the top and deeper at the end than the RIP RDO. Otherwise both bikes feel and handle very similar (with the -1 HS on the RIP).

    Wreckoning:

    Climbing efficiency-very good
    Traction-good
    Plush-very good
    Stable at speed-good
    Short chainstays-good
    2.6-2.8 tires-poor
    Coil-excellent
    High BB-fair
    Threaded BB-excellent

    The Wreckoning could be a little higer in the BB (13.4" stock) and slacker in the head angle. It isn't massively stable at high speeds but the trade off is that it is surprisingly spry at normal speeds. The tire clearance needs to be better but 2.5 Minion DHFs fit with plenty of clearance. I wish it was longer in reach with the same stack (XL).
    Aaaand the Riot.

    Riot is all about the geo. If you want a BMX feel on a FS 29er, this is your bike. This thing jumps and jukes and jives all over the trail. I love the CBF suspension under power. It just works (well) everywhere.

    Climbing efficiency-very good
    Traction-excellent
    Plush-fair
    Stable at speed-poor
    Short chainstays-excellent
    2.6-2.8 tires-good
    Coil-excellent
    High BB-very good (13.8 stock)
    Threaded BB-excellent

    The Riot has too much torsional flex in the rear triangle (I'm a big guy). That was a big disappointment given how heavy the frame is. It's not very stable at high speeds in rough terrain. The geo wasn't meant to give this luxury. It could be a longer and taller in reach and stack. This alone would add a bit of stability. I was not impressed with the stock CCDBA on this bike. A Monarch Plus is a bit better but it still gets overwhelmed in rough terrain. This bike has gone to my son as the resale market crapped the bed due to massive price cuts from Canfield.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by titusquasi View Post
    Aaaand the Riot.

    Riot is all about the geo. If you want a BMX feel on a FS 29er, this is your bike. This thing jumps and jukes and jives all over the trail. I love the CBF suspension under power. It just works (well) everywhere.

    Climbing efficiency-very good
    Traction-excellent
    Plush-fair
    Stable at speed-poor
    Short chainstays-excellent
    2.6-2.8 tires-good
    Coil-excellent
    High BB-very good (13.8 stock)
    Threaded BB-excellent

    The Riot has too much torsional flex in the rear triangle (I'm a big guy). That was a big disappointment given how heavy the frame is. It's not very stable at high speeds in rough terrain. The geo wasn't meant to give this luxury. It could be a longer and taller in reach and stack. This alone would add a bit of stability. I was not impressed with the stock CCDBA on this bike. A Monarch Plus is a bit better but it still gets overwhelmed in rough terrain. This bike has gone to my son as the resale market crapped the bed due to massive price cuts from Canfield.
    I'll agree with these statements, the bike was designed to be a 29er that did things 29ers couldn't do...send the monarch to Avalance and then the bike would be very plush.

  63. #63
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    I did an 8000' day on my Enduro 29er a few weeks ago. Lots of big chunky stuff going down, suspension was left open the whole climb. I'm running a 29 x 2.6 in the front.

    If I could change anything on the bike it would be:
    -I should have gone 27.5 (personal choice). But no regrets.
    -Carbon frame for the SWAT box storage. But the low end model fit my desires and I don't regret that either.

    My friend has a Stumpy (red bike in the photos) and is slightly more tame and more of an all arounder with 150/135 travel. We were just flowing the trail with the occasional stop, not pushing at all, and we still landed in the top 5% on the 13 mile DH. I won't mention other fast DH times because I don't want to get into a "who's faster" battle, but very capable bikes.

    I did no research when I bought the E29. I saw it, knew I needed to stop beating up my XC bike, and I bought it. I am not disappointed.

  64. #64
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    Full disclosure, I'm not a lightweight, 195# soaking wet, so a flexy frame is not my friend, that said, wheels and tires are generally the greatest source of flex, just saying...

    I could easily do 27.5, I got a Hendrix now and 27.5 set up on the Fatillac, but I miss the roll over and if I could have my cake and eat it too, I'd have an agile 29er.

    Even if I was working through tech stuff, I still don't feel the need for 27.5. I rode 29 SS in Tennessee for years, that's some super tech stuff with roots galore and I did fine. I've been rolling 27.5 x 3.8 on a Fatillac and previously on a Mutz and was able to do some hairy stuff with no issues; even ran mixer 27+/29+ in St George and BC with no issues.

    Mostly looking for a plusher ride, less weight, and improved efficiency, hence the 29er. Long travel because I like going fast on gnarly terrain, catching air, pretending I'mnot old

    I don't think the Riot is for me, as much as love the Bros, it's just a little to short for my tastes.

    I'll admit to being reluctant to get a Trek or Specialized, it's not that their bvikes suck, it's just me being a weenie and wanting to support the little guys AND wanting something that's not a "Ford or Chevy".

    Leaning heavily toward the Smash, 30 day return is not a bad way to check it out, certainly easier than driving to Colorado... though if there's one in SLC

    Any feedback on the Transition Sentinel, how it compares to the bikes already discussed, specifically can it be an all day epic bike or it really a "downhill bike in disguise"?

  65. #65
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    If you want a bit longer than a Riot, still playful, how about the High Tower LT, it didn't wow me off my Riot, but I've got custom suspension tune...it's a more stable, short enough to still be a playful trail bike (If playful means nimble to you)

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    If you want a bit longer than a Riot, still playful, how about the High Tower LT, it didn't wow me off my Riot, but I've got custom suspension tune...it's a more stable, short enough to still be a playful trail bike (If playful means nimble to you)
    But that seat tube angle.... I like the bike but I'm in between sizes and the STA sucks. After riding "modern" geometry, I just can't go back to a slack seat tube with short reach.

  67. #67
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    Did not like Hightower LT, did not like it Sam I am.

    Nothing really stood out, never felt like I was in the bike, swapped wheels around, didn't find the love.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    If you want a bit longer than a Riot, still playful, how about the High Tower LT, it didn't wow me off my Riot, but I've got custom suspension tune...it's a more stable, short enough to still be a playful trail bike (If playful means nimble to you)

  68. #68
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    Did you all watch the video of Jeff Kendall-Weed riding the Ripmo? Man, that guy rides okay! Hard to relate my riding to his, he can out ride me on a kid's trike

    It did look good, but then that's his job. It's nice to work for a company that makes such nice tools.

    It would be so easy to pull the trigger on a few of these bikes, but reviews alone are just that, need a demo or a money back guarantee.

  69. #69
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    Foes has been teasing a 140mm 29er on social media. Historically, their bikes have not had short chainstays though.

  70. #70
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    Great bikes, super durable, but long arse chainstays and the ride is not plush. My Fatillac replaced a Mutz, going Foes is going harsher not plusher.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldHouseMan View Post
    Foes has been teasing a 140mm 29er on social media. Historically, their bikes have not had short chainstays though.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHouseMan View Post
    Foes has been teasing a 140mm 29er on social media. Historically, their bikes have not had short chainstays though.
    My FXR had 16.75" chainstays.

    But the last thing this world needs is another 140mm 29er.

    I really like their mixer concept.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  72. #72
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    Okay, in an effort to sort the wheat from the chafe:

    Which bikes already discussed will take a Rekon 29 x 2.6? And if a 2.8 existed, do any current 29 long travel fs bikes have the capacity?

    I rode around on a 2018 Spec Pro Enduro tonight, nice bike, but the long chainstays were obvious, wheelies took effort, but the bike felt nice. Local shop, good guys, Iíd like to buy from them but I donít think the Enduro is bike for me; Stumpy would be even longer in the CS. They also carry Trek and Niner.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Okay, in an effort to sort the wheat from the chafe:

    Which bikes already discussed will take a Rekon 29 x 2.6? And if a 2.8 existed, do any current 29 long travel fs bikes have the capacity?

    I rode around on a 2018 Spec Pro Enduro tonight, nice bike, but the long chainstays were obvious, wheelies took effort, but the bike felt nice. Local shop, good guys, Iíd like to buy from them but I donít think the Enduro is bike for me; Stumpy would be even longer in the CS. They also carry Trek and Niner.
    Pole Evolinks and the Machine is probably the only fs bikes that can do that right now. Clearance for 29x2.8 officially, will take 29x3.0 unofficially.

  74. #74
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    First time Iíve ever heard someone call the E29 stays too long.

    Smash-429
    E29-433
    Stumpy-437
    Slash-433
    Wreck-430-432
    Sentinel-435

    Notice a trend? If you can notice a difference in 5-ish mm, you are an incredibly nuanced rider.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Did not like Hightower LT, did not like it Sam I am.

    Nothing really stood out, never felt like I was in the bike, swapped wheels around, didn't find the love.
    Funny, I felt sorta the same, I felt it was a decent bike, but no love. But I had a similar bike to compare it to, so I thought it was just me.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Okay, in an effort to sort the wheat from the chafe:

    Which bikes already discussed will take a Rekon 29 x 2.6? And if a 2.8 existed, do any current 29 long travel fs bikes have the capacity?

    I rode around on a 2018 Spec Pro Enduro tonight, nice bike, but the long chainstays were obvious, wheelies took effort, but the bike felt nice. Local shop, good guys, Iíd like to buy from them but I donít think the Enduro is bike for me; Stumpy would be even longer in the CS. They also carry Trek and Niner.
    IMHO long travel bikes are for higher speed and bigger hits, this isn't where plus shines, plus is better for slow crawl low pressure riding. So a long bike doesn't need more than 2.6 tires. Again my opinion. But this may be why a lot of them don't have the capacity.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrPaulus View Post
    Pole Evolinks and the Machine is probably the only fs bikes that can do that right now. Clearance for 29x2.8 officially, will take 29x3.0 unofficially.
    Wow, just took a look at the Pole 158. Sick.

    The Banshee Prime takes a 2.8, and can squeeze a 3.0 as well, although it is 135 rear travel.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    IMHO long travel bikes are for higher speed and bigger hits, this isn't where plus shines, plus is better for slow crawl low pressure riding. So a long bike doesn't need more than 2.6 tires. Again my opinion. But this may be why a lot of them don't have the capacity.
    Cushcore inserts for 27.5+ may change that... I'm interested in trying it out at least when I get my Smash.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Notice a trend? If you can notice a difference in 5-ish mm, you are an incredibly nuanced rider.
    I can testify that Ben doesn't suck too much on a bike. But 5 mm, yeah, valid point. Kinda like the article on the Ripmo I saw that called the Slash overly slack in comparison, based on 0.4 degree difference.

    A boring "not really what you're looking for" choice, I know, but Fuel EX with Fox 36 fork at 140 mm and DPX2 rear shock. The DPX2 makes the travel feel 28% (NOT 30%!) longer. I was skeptical but am blown away. The 140 fork would lift the BB just where you want it.

    For me, the Smash removes itself gracefully from the list due to the shock being placed where a big water bottle should be!
    Whining is not a strategy.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo View Post

    For me, the Smash removes itself gracefully from the list due to the shock being placed where a big water bottle should be!
    Talk about picky!!! The 3oz difference in water bottle size from 21 to 24 is really the deal breaker? For me it's suspension design first, everything else later. I'm psyched I can fit a small frame bag, and a water bottle, and still have a coil piggyback with plush/crush modes! Should be no real difference from my E29 with SWAT other than that 3 ounces

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    Talk about picky!!! The 3oz difference in water bottle size from 21 to 24 is really the deal breaker? For me it's suspension design first, everything else later. I'm psyched I can fit a small frame bag, and a water bottle, and still have a coil piggyback with plush/crush modes! Should be no real difference from my E29 with SWAT other than that 3 ounces
    Fair point, but actually my water bottle of choice is a 33 ounce Zefal Magnum.
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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo View Post
    Fair point, but actually my water bottle of choice is a 33 ounce Zefal Magnum.


    And that thing fits in ANY full suspension frame?!

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post


    And that thing fits in ANY full suspension frame?!
    Previously Turner Czar, Turner Sultan V.1, Sultan V.2, Specialized Epic and Camber, and Trek Fuel EX (2016).

    Currently Trek Fuel EX 9 (2018) and Remedy 29 9.8.

    The beloved old-ish Remedy did require a custom offset King Cage (negative 1/4"), which he will cheerfully provide at no extra charge, as long as you are willing to wait until he welds up the next set.
    Whining is not a strategy.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    Cushcore inserts for 27.5+ may change that... I'm interested in trying it out at least when I get my Smash.
    I can vouch for Cushcore in 2.5 tires. a friend is going to try them in 2.6 soon. It's a great awesome product.

  85. #85
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    Kosmo: wasnít suggesting at all that Ben is anything but an excellent rider. I donít know the gentleman. My point was about the ability to distinguish such minimal differences in product. If he or you or anyone can, Godspeed; I think thatís awesome.

    I think mere mortals probably canít. I know I canít, but Iím rarely the smartest guy in the room.

    I can see the appeal of the Fuel EX in certain environments. I owned one here in Phx and it was not for me. Super-flexy ( Iím 180 before gear), super-low BB, etc.

    Iíd be surprised if the Smash couldnít fit a 2.6. I ran a 2.5 Aggressor (granted, itís a Maxxis tire) on mine and it seemed to have plenty of room.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  86. #86
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    I don't suck too much

    I'm 52, my big days are gone, but I like to ride fast, I'm not afraid to crash (unfortunately), and I like to pop off every little rock and bump I can find. I really, really. really, like to have a light front end that is easy to manual, that said I also gotta have the ability to keep the front end down when climbing; compromises, compromises.

    I am like the princess and the "pee", I really can tell the difference with a 5mm chainstay length; of course there are other factors, so demo, demo, demo. Last night when I went to manual/wheeie the Spec Enduro Pro 27.5, it was reluctant to lift it's head and once up it was not that stable. In contrast, I can manual the hell outta my Fatillac, Hendrix, Wozo.

    So yeah, I want the shorter chainstays please

    As for plus tires, there's no need to discuss their merits, it's been beaten like an old dog. I ride plus and fat, been doing it that way for years; remember the Gazz? I like bigger tires, though I have pulled back from 3" on an FS bike and will likely run 2.6 happilly.

    I recognize that big tires + big travel + 29 + long dropper insertion will complicate my plan, but there are bikes that check all the boxes. The Superboost, as much as it's maligned, will help with chainstay width, but right now only the Switchblade is doing it. Even an 83mm bb is not a terrible compromise if tire capacity is a desireable "option". I read an interesting discussion on Super Boost as it relates to the new Knolly Fugitive LT; sadly the bike won't be available for six months.

    This has been a great discussion, I'm getting closer, unfortunately my Fatillac is sold and going to a new home on Friday, I can "reaquire" my Hendrix from the bro, but I am gonna be bikeless shortly and the season is about to go. I need a new bike sooner than later; Smash prouduction in my size is out a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo View Post
    I can testify that Ben doesn't suck too much on a bike. But 5 mm, yeah, valid point. Kinda like the article on the Ripmo I saw that called the Slash overly slack in comparison, based on 0.4 degree difference.

    A boring "not really what you're looking for" choice, I know, but Fuel EX with Fox 36 fork at 140 mm and DPX2 rear shock. The DPX2 makes the travel feel 28% (NOT 30%!) longer. I was skeptical but am blown away. The 140 fork would lift the BB just where you want it.

    For me, the Smash removes itself gracefully from the list due to the shock being placed where a big water bottle should be!

  87. #87
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    With the Smash and bigger tires, I think it's an issue of height vs width, same probably with my Fatillac. I read on the GG forum that 2.6 clears with the coil and a "shim", not sure what that means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Kosmo: wasnít suggesting at all that Ben is anything but an excellent rider. I donít know the gentleman. My point was about the ability to distinguish such minimal differences in product. If he or you or anyone can, Godspeed; I think thatís awesome.

    I think mere mortals probably canít. I know I canít, but Iím rarely the smartest guy in the room.

    I can see the appeal of the Fuel EX in certain environments. I owned one here in Phx and it was not for me. Super-flexy ( Iím 180 before gear), super-low BB, etc.

    Iíd be surprised if the Smash couldnít fit a 2.6. I ran a 2.5 Aggressor (granted, itís a Maxxis tire) on mine and it seemed to have plenty of room.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Looking for a long legged climber with ~150mm travel that can turn around at the top and smash technical downhills.
    We are after a lot of the same stuff. I ordered a GG Smash. That said there are quite a few nice options for mid-travel 29ers that can climb and descend well. Reasonable cost, customisation options and supporting North American manufacturing sealed the deal on buying a GG.

    You were mentioning Smash availability. Their website says 2-3 weeks for a raw frame in Small to Large and XL's are in stock. That's not too bad.
    Safe riding,

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  89. #89
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    So I've been looking at Pole, very unique, never seen one in person. The Machine looks good but is too much bike for my needs. The Evolink is more what I need.

    But the chainstays on both bikes are 455; it says "effective chainstay length".

    So are they actually shorter due to the unique geo? How does that bike manual compared to a more typical short chainstay bike like the Riot?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrPaulus View Post
    Pole Evolinks and the Machine is probably the only fs bikes that can do that right now. Clearance for 29x2.8 officially, will take 29x3.0 unofficially.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I don't suck too much

    I'm 52, my big days are gone, but I like to ride fast, I'm not afraid to crash (unfortunately), and I like to pop off every little rock and bump I can find. I really, really. really, like to have a light front end that is easy to manual, that said I also gotta have the ability to keep the front end down when climbing; compromises, compromises.

    I am like the princess and the "pee", I really can tell the difference with a 5mm chainstay length; of course there are other factors, so demo, demo, demo. Last night when I went to manual/wheeie the Spec Enduro Pro 27.5, it was reluctant to lift it's head and once up it was not that stable. In contrast, I can manual the hell outta my Fatillac, Hendrix, Wozo.

    So yeah, I want the shorter chainstays please

    As for plus tires, there's no need to discuss their merits, it's been beaten like an old dog. I ride plus and fat, been doing it that way for years; remember the Gazz? I like bigger tires, though I have pulled back from 3" on an FS bike and will likely run 2.6 happilly.

    I recognize that big tires + big travel + 29 + long dropper insertion will complicate my plan, but there are bikes that check all the boxes. The Superboost, as much as it's maligned, will help with chainstay width, but right now only the Switchblade is doing it. Even an 83mm bb is not a terrible compromise if tire capacity is a desireable "option". I read an interesting discussion on Super Boost as it relates to the new Knolly Fugitive LT; sadly the bike won't be available for six months.

    This has been a great discussion, I'm getting closer, unfortunately my Fatillac is sold and going to a new home on Friday, I can "reaquire" my Hendrix from the bro, but I am gonna be bikeless shortly and the season is about to go. I need a new bike sooner than later; Smash prouduction in my size is out a bit.
    But shorter CS will sacrifice some downhill stability or require you to move your body weight differently compared to a bike more centered. Personally I have a '18 E29 right now and find it manuals very easy! One sweet thing I've found about The Smash- I've always ridden large frames at 6' with a 33" inseam. The medium smash is slightly bigger than the Enduro in every measurement aside from wheelbase (it's a couple mm shorter, but still longer than the 2017 E29 in L), but I can run a 185mm dropper slammed. Really looking forward to that! The shorter wheelbase (not really short still) will feel really good for front range trails too

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    Cushcore inserts for 27.5+ may change that... I'm interested in trying it out at least when I get my Smash.
    Do you plan to run 27.5+ in your GG Smash frame? The ability to run both 27.5+ & 29" wheels is why I picked the GG Trail Pistol frame. Didn't know Smash could handle both. Please post results on the GG forum!
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  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Do you plan to run 27.5+ in your GG Smash frame? The ability to run both 27.5+ & 29" wheels is why I picked the GG Trail Pistol frame. Didn't know Smash could handle both. Please post results on the GG forum!
    =sParty
    From what I understand, and knowing a handful of people with them 2.8's should fit. I have a set from my wife's old bike that I plan on trying. Plus tires never interested me until Cushcore started making inserts though. I'll definitely post but it probably won't be until fall after race season.

  93. #93
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    Pretty sure you canít run B+ tires on the Smash.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Pretty sure you canít run B+ tires on the Smash.
    on paper, but I believe SylentK here is without issue?

  95. #95
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    The problem with saying B+ does or does not fit is that nobody agrees on what a B+ tire is. Is it only a true width 3" tire? Is it a Maxxis 2.6" tire? Something in between?
    Safe riding,

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  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by attaboy View Post
    The extremely low B.B. seems iffy. At full compression ó-pedal is almost on the ground and for shorter riders if seatpost is lowered all the way it will contact rear wheel if using long 180+ dropper.

    Who has their pedal in that position in full compression of 145mm travel? If you do the crash you're in is a bigger problem than the low BB height.
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  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Pretty sure you canít run B+ tires on the Smash.
    One way to look at it is that the Smash + new seat stays = a Shred Dog which fits 27.5 x 2.8" tires.
    Safe riding,

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  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Who has their pedal in that position in full compression of 145mm travel? If you do the crash you're in is a bigger problem than the low BB height.
    I think the better question is who is using that much travel with the dropper seat UP.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    I think the better question is who is using that much travel with the dropper seat UP.
    The same person who is peddling and worked about peddle strikes

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by attaboy View Post
    if seatpost is lowered all the way it will contact rear wheel if using long 180+ dropper.

    I feel sorry for the poor soul who installs the longest dropper possible and gets his seat mauled or locks the rear wheel up on the first big drop or g out.

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