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  1. #1
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    Niner Air 9 vs Stumpjumper ht comp 29er

    Looking for a new bike and thinking bout goin the 29er route. I was wondering what everyone's opinion is on whether the niner or the stumpjumper? I'm looking to spend around $2000. Could i build a decent niner for that price? Thanks

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    I own an AIR 9. Very happy with it. Shop hard, buy used, and you could do it for under $2000, but all new at that price is going to be tough with a great wheel set, good components and a weight weenie build. A frame that light deserves high end components.

    I'm kind of anti Speshy, due to their business ethics and tactics to the little guys in the bike business, YMMV.

  3. #3
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    Go with the Niner and Ebay. Just built up an EMD 9 for ~$2400 (all SRAM X9 bits), including a wheelset from Mikesee. IMO, more bang for your buck with the Niner.

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    I have an '08 Stumpjumper and like it. Rear tire clearance for a Rampage on a Stan's Arch is minimal, although this may be different in current model year. That said, to do it again, I would probably get a Niner or Salsa frame and start from scratch.

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    I went with the EMD and got it for just under 2K. I did supply a crankset and BB that I had laying around and only went 1X9 for now. I went for the decent wheels, fork and frame first to save some money. Crossmax29ers, Reba fork. The other components you can upgrade later on. I currently have Juicy 3.5 brakes and this so far is the weakest link on the bike. I have already added a Thompson post and new Spec. Alias seat.
    The brakes will work for now but will be my next upgrade. I went from a full sus 26er to this and am extremely happy.

  6. #6
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    Go for the Air9. A lot of guys including myself picked one up during the Jet9 recall. There is good chance some will be letting their slightly used Air9s go when the redesigned Jet9 is out.
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  7. #7
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    The Specialized would be a great bike and you could pocket a little money. I think the Niner would be a better ride with the steel frame, but I think for your budget you would get more bike with the Stumpy.

    Brian
    Ride it like you stole it!

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    so, on the one hand you have the company that do nothing but 29ers and has been at his since a couple years, and one the other you have the company that said they would never do a 29er...

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    I have neither...yet.

    Those are the two bikes I am looking at. I have no bad feelings against Spec. I have a 08 FSR 29er. Their are lots of feelings of Spec this Niner that regarding ethics and frame warranties and never build a 29er and only build 29ers...it is not noise but also is not the only issues to look at.

    The new Comp from Spec for 2010 is really a sweet looking bike and so is the Air in Raw and whatever that Green is...you can have that blue color. I have ridden both around the inside of the shop (big shop but not that big) and the Niner Air9 for a small ride outside the shop over a year ago. The Spec weigh's right at 25lbs right out of the box and if memory serves me right the Niner is a little heavier than that but the weight is uber build specific. $1799 is what it is selling for at the LBS. The Niner Air9 is with SLX stuff and a Fulcrum Red Wheelset for $2100 (I think that is what I remember).

    It is going to be a difficult decision but think that you will be really happy with either bike. I know that I would and hope that I am happy by next year's Leadville 100!

    massalsa

  10. #10
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    contradictory statements

    I am confused about the people that say that they don't like spec becasue of what they do to the "little guys" aka independent bike shops but then advocate buying used presumably from ebay. How does that help the shops? Specialized has been a great partner for our shop for years and their stumpy 29ers for 2010 seem like really nice specs (although there is some confusion about whether or not the wheels are actually tubeless compatible). In regards to their statements about never making a 29er, I think that was a foolish statement, but they are showing that they aren't too bull-headed and stuck to recognize that 29er is not going away and is a more than viable option, hence riders like Todd Wells riding their carbon 29ers.

    With Niner in mind I think that posting here you are posting to a overwhelmingly biased (not saying for lack of good reason) pro-niner board. I think the EMD may allow you to build a better bike now and then upgrade the frame in the future. The Air9 is nice too, but the small weight gain in the frame could be offset in the wheels by going with the EMD and spending the same if not less money. The only thing to potentially be skeptical on is that Niner has A LOT on its plate right now: recall and total redesign of a very popular frame, continual supply of their carbon fork, production of a new carbon frame... IF you need service, or IF something like the jet 9 situation happens again for them will you be able to get the customer service. Nothing bad has happened in regards to their basic hardtails and there is no reason to think that something will, but it is worth keeping in mind that they are a smaller company which is good and bad sometimes.

    Either will end up well and luckily you have a lot of options.

  11. #11
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    yeah ... I 2nd what amblake50 said so eloquently. My LBS is a big Specialized sealer and there is alot of value in their builds. My best option is to grab the Comp and go from there.

  12. #12
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    I got a Stumpjumper HT comp 29er a few months ago ('09) for $1300 on closeout. Maybe you can find such a deal.

    Of course, I've subsequently dumped about $2500 into it turning it into a full XTR/King/Stans ... carbon bars/Thomson rig.

    I only did that because I loved riding the bike so much.

    I've never ridden a Niner. But I can attest to the bike reigniting my love for mountain biking.

  13. #13
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    Niner. Not even a question. Niner has 29ers figured out, plus if you have a problem you can call them up and talk to a person (Frank or Brian).
    specialized said they would NEVER make a 29er. imho, specialized is the wally-world of cycling.

  14. #14
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    I am not a specialized hater. In fact i have owned 4 of them in the past 13 years. They range from a steel ht to an fsr all 26ers. And i am sure i would buy another one. The S-Works Stumpjumper Carbon HT SS 29er looks really sweet. But i have to say that their Aluminum hard tails for me ride harsh. So on to my point. Specialized had a demo at my local mtb trail last year(2009 model year bikes), and i test rode the fsr29er and the stumpjumper 29er hard tail. And like the Specialized aluminum hard tails from my past it was harsh. At the time of the demo, I was and still am riding a Salsa Mamasita, so that is what i was comparing it to . So out of the two bikes you are trying to decide between, I would probably have to say go with the Niner Air9. Someone above recommended the Niner EMD. It is $300.00 less than the Air9. But if you were to add the Mamasita in there i would say it would have to be the Mamasita. Like i said it was a 2009 that i rode not a 2010 if that makes any difference.
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  15. #15
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    While the two bikes may seem similar, there are some significant differences that should be considered. For me, the main consideration was how the two bikes handle. The Specialized has a fairly slack (for a 29er) head tube angle and handles a bit more 'slowly', for lack of a better word, than the Niner which has a fairly steep (again, for a 29er) head tube angle.

    If you want a bike that's quick steering to the point of being almost 26"-like, the Niner would be a better choice.

    Something to consider w/ the Niners... the older Air9s were built to have a 72 degree head tube angle when using a 100mm travel fork or 490mm rigid fork. If you were to put an 80mm travel fork on an older model, it would be too quick for most folks' taste. The newer ones (you can tell 'em apart because the new ones have a 73mm bottom bracket shell vs 68mm for the older ones) are built to have a 72 degree head tube angle when using an 80mm travel or 470mm rigid fork. You could put a 100mm fork on the newer frames and it would serve to slow the steering significantly, but also raise your BB a tad.

    In the interest of full disclosure, I have one of the older Air9s that I recently bought "used" (never built up) and I've ridden it with both the 490mm rigid Niner steel fork and a 100mm travel Fox F32 fork. It rides great w/ either fork and I'd recommend the Air9 to anyone.

  16. #16
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    I have a 2010 Stumpy Comp 29er and really like it so far. My friend (lives in a different state than me so I have not ridden it) got a Air9 as a result of the Jet9 recall and really likes his bike too.

    I initially started out wanting a SIR9, but it was beyond my budget. I have had good luck with some other Specilzed bikes in the past and was comfortable getting another one.

    I think Niner has done a nice job handling the recall from what I can tell, and I would strongly consider one of their bikes down the road. Your decison will come down to what you want to spend.

    No matter what you end up with, you will have a blast on your new 29er.
    I was too drunk and too much in pain to ride. Good times. - TacoBeer

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooter2468

    If you want a bike that's quick steering to the point of being almost 26"-like, the Niner would be a better choice.
    Not sure if you have ridden both bikes, but numbers are not everything. The 2010 SJ is the most nimble 29er bike I have ever ridden. Including the air, first version mamsita and an Indy. This bike is the first 29er I have ridden that feels like a 26er in the handling department.

    As far as numbers, the SJ HTA is 71.5 and the Air is 72. The SJ uses a 90mm fork which will make up for the difference if a 100mm is used on the Air. Also the tapered steerer tube makes an amazing difference in the handling department, something I was not giving a lot of credence to until I witnessed it. I also think the shorter wheelbase helps too. The SJ is just a very racy feeling 29er. May not be what the OP is looking for.

  18. #18
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    I've not ridden a spec 29er but it seems like the value is there. I do have an AIR 9 and I LOVE it!! I was worried it would be too harsh, i'm coming off a JET 9, but it is not nearly as bad as i thought it would be. Maybe the scandium really does make that much a of difference. Only other hardtail 29er i've ridden was a cannondale F29 and it was more harsh in the rear then my air for sure.

  19. #19
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    confused:confused:

    Quote Originally Posted by heythorp
    This bike is the first 29er I have ridden that feels like a 26er in the handling department.
    If you want your 29er to handle like a 26er, why not just buy a 26er? I personally like for my 29er to ride like a 29er.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by heythorp
    Not sure if you have ridden both bikes, but numbers are not everything. The 2010 SJ is the most nimble 29er bike I have ever ridden. Including the air, first version mamsita and an Indy. This bike is the first 29er I have ridden that feels like a 26er in the handling department.

    As far as numbers, the SJ HTA is 71.5 and the Air is 72. The SJ uses a 90mm fork which will make up for the difference if a 100mm is used on the Air. Also the tapered steerer tube makes an amazing difference in the handling department, something I was not giving a lot of credence to until I witnessed it.
    I understand that numbers aren't everything, which also means that the length of the fork is irrelevant so long as it's the length the frame was designed around. A 90mm fork on the Specialized does not "make up for the difference" compared to a 100mm fork on a Niner designed for the 100mm.

    If the Specialized truly does turn as nimbly as the Air9, given the angles you referenced, then it is likely a function of the fork offset on the Specialized fork being slightly greater than whatever fork you're running on the Niner. Of course, it could be completely unrelated.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruso414
    If you want your 29er to handle like a 26er, why not just buy a 26er? I personally like for my 29er to ride like a 29er.

    There are some things that I like about 26ers more than 29ers and agility is high on the list. Every time I get back on a 26er I smile about the agility.

    Sorry I am not a 29er zealot but to me both wheel sizes are more than capable for me to have fun on.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruso414
    imho, specialized is the wally-world of cycling.
    seriously...? I don't know if I understand that comment.

  23. #23
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    wally-world=walmart.
    specialized=big box store business practices.
    imho= in my honest opinion.

    capiche?

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    nm .

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    yes I literally get it, but what big box store practices do they exhibit? I have been at a specialized shop (which also sells niner btw) for 3 years and they have been nothing but easy to work with, inside and outside reps keep me up to date, bicycles are available, and warranty is simple. I think there is some stigma attached to any company who becomes big.
    You are obviously entitled to your opinion, but IMHO (the h is for humble) I don't think that having 10 or less employees necessarily makes you a better company, I think in a lot of cases it makes it hard to provide exceptional customer service (not a jab at Niner)

  26. #26
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    Nobody gives Specialized the credit for bringing some sweet innovations over the years and making everyone else step up their game. Yes they make it tough to be a dealer, but they are a business not the government. And they people who do what they ask make money and customers get great bikes. I have had two specialized bikes over the years and loved them both. And both times they allowed me to get the best bike for the money at that time.

    Sometimes I cant tell if Specialized haters are really looking out for the little guy when they pay $2000 more for a bike that is marginally better or worse. Some might be elitist justifying their boutique bikes.

    I love all the boutique bikes buy the way, but not everyone has the cash and still wants to ride. But for more money I would consider a Sultan.

    Z

  27. #27
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    Mountain bike legend has it that Tom Sinyard (look it up) had Tom Ritchey make him a couple of bikes (you ever ride a Ritchey kids?) and then promptly sent the bikes to Taiwan to be duplicated and that how you got your stumpjumper. Oh and the fact that Merida (look it up) owns a substantial interest in the company makes them kinda wally-world I'd say. But the fact the bikes are designed in the good ole us of a makes them one up on dear old cannondale
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you'll crash.

  28. #28
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    Legend - those old stories can go either way depending on which side you support. Others have said that the Stumpjumper frame design was an improvement over the frames that Ritchey and Fisher were making, and that 'Mike' Sinyard rode the Ritchey bikes and improved on the design when he started his line. Ritchey made some great bikes but didn't sell many (worked at a Ritchey dealer back in the day) and before he gets too much credit as the victim here, Ritchey is 'the king' of over seas production! Bike design hasn't changed much over the years with subtle improvements making the difference, so everyone currently making a bike 'copied' somebody elses design.

    I have owned a ton of bikes over the years including several high end bikes from small companies. I have found that a high end production bike gives nothing away to the boutique bikes. Many are just as good or better and half the price - just less bragging rights at the trail head (or website).

    One thought...Small companies don't have the resources to build prototypes and test them exhaustively to find their flaws before production starts. While Niner is working hard to help Jet owners get back on their rides, you have to wonder if that particular design would have gone into production if they had tested it properly before starting fabrication. In one scenario the company spends the money to test the bikes before production and in the other, the consumer tests the bikes. I think Niner is a great company that has taken the sport in the right direction and would seriously consider a Jet - once the bugs are worked out.

  29. #29
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    My, albeit limited, understanding of the anti-specialized sentiment is that it is less about small bike shops and more about small bike and product developers (as pr photo alludes to). The Ritchey 'misunderstanding' is probably the first (and more minor/less lawerly involved) example. From Tom to Stan.

  30. #30
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    If you didn't know anything about bikes and you bought a middle of the road Specialized, you would have a very capable bike that would last quite a long time. I've owned several Specialized bikes over the years:

    96 Stumpjumper
    96 Rockhopper
    2004 Allez Sport
    2008 Roubaix Expert

    They all worked very well for their intended purposes and brought great value to the consumer (me.) They have a great dealer network and good warrantee program. Heck, I discovered a crack in my wife's '96 RH and got a new frame out of it after 13yrs of ownership.

    They bring a lot of innovation and are constently updating their products.

    HOWEVER, this same aspect kills me. I buy a Spec bike and the next year's model has something new or different makes my very capable bike feel...outdated somehow. The prices on early year examples and end of year examples vary so much. And I see one every time I run into another rider.

    To compare a Specialized bike to a Wal-Mart bike is like comparing Honda to rental car fleet cars. Sure Hondas put out frugal cars like the Civic that are functional but no personality. But they've also manufactured products like the S2000 and NSX and are heavily involved in racing. But if you go to a rental car fleet, they are...well,...rental car fleet quality.
    Just get out and ride!

  31. #31
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    nobody was comparing their bikes to wallyworld bikes, just the companies business practices. Hell Giant builds them for them anyway and you don't see people disliking Giant the way they dislike specialized.

    bottom line is this, this forum is for "opinions". if you enjoy your specialized, good. give everyone your opinion. yours seems to be favorable of specialized, mine however is not. did you ever notice how this discussion comes up almost every time a thread about specialized is brought up? Giant is a large company and this doesn't seem to come up, why? Trek is a large company and this doesn't come up, why? it must be people just picking on poor ole specialized, huh? I think I will stay away from them, they already have enough "associates".

    btw, I don't have a Niner anymore but I think they are a great group of people, rather than a multi-national machine only looking at the bottom line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1-bar
    Go for the Air9. A lot of guys including myself picked one up during the Jet9 recall. There is good chance some will be letting their slightly used Air9s go when the redesigned Jet9 is out.
    There is also the possibility that they find out they are faster on their AIR9 on certain courses, especially those with long climbs, and that they sell their Jet instead. My AIR gets most of the riding time now, my RIP gets plenty of rest. YMMV, but I find the AIR to be an extremely efficient climbing machine. The acceleration on the AIR is downright explosively fast compared to my RIP, running 240s hubs with Flows, about 1800 grams?.
    Last edited by Boyonabyke; 10-30-2009 at 01:40 PM.

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    What is not legend is that Tom Ritchey actually made his ****. Sinyard took the design and sent the manufacturing oversees when nobody was making mountain bikes outside of the us, as to adding to the design all he did was tig weld them. I'm not anti-spec. spec is anti- small manufacturer, do you want to go into all the litigation they used to squash the 4-bar being used by anybody. Having worked in the legal biz I've seen how big companies use their size and money to paralyze any competition who attempt to out innovate them.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you'll crash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruso414
    nobody was comparing their bikes to wallyworld bikes, just the companies business practices. Hell Giant builds them for them anyway and you don't see people disliking Giant the way they dislike specialized.

    bottom line is this, this forum is for "opinions". if you enjoy your specialized, good. give everyone your opinion. yours seems to be favorable of specialized, mine however is not. did you ever notice how this discussion comes up almost every time a thread about specialized is brought up? Giant is a large company and this doesn't seem to come up, why? Trek is a large company and this doesn't come up, why? it must be people just picking on poor ole specialized, huh? I think I will stay away from them, they already have enough "associates".

    btw, I don't have a Niner anymore but I think they are a great group of people, rather than a multi-national machine only looking at the bottom line.
    Does Niner not care about the bottom line? Or is just large, evil compaines interested in turning a profit. Niner is in business to make money, right?
    I was too drunk and too much in pain to ride. Good times. - TacoBeer

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    the difference is..

    Quote Originally Posted by tjkm
    Does Niner not care about the bottom line? Or is just large, evil compaines interested in turning a profit. Niner is in business to make money, right?
    as mentioned in an earlier post, specialized would and has sued everyone over everything. how the f#ck do you sue over a screw off top on a water bottle? as I said before, enjoy your bike and we can all enjoy the opinions, that's why we are all here.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by amblake50
    I am confused about the people that say that they don't like spec becasue of what they do to the "little guys" aka independent bike shops but then advocate buying used presumably from ebay. How does that help the shops?

    It helps resale value of new bikes, encouraging more people to buy new.

    Whatever. I don't feel any obligation to support either the manufacturing or retail sectors.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruso414
    nobody was comparing their bikes to wallyworld bikes, just the companies business practices. Hell Giant builds them for them anyway and you don't see people disliking Giant the way they dislike specialized.

    bottom line is this, this forum is for "opinions". if you enjoy your specialized, good. give everyone your opinion. yours seems to be favorable of specialized, mine however is not. did you ever notice how this discussion comes up almost every time a thread about specialized is brought up? Giant is a large company and this doesn't seem to come up, why? Trek is a large company and this doesn't come up, why? it must be people just picking on poor ole specialized, huh? I think I will stay away from them, they already have enough "associates".

    btw, I don't have a Niner anymore but I think they are a great group of people, rather than a multi-national machine only looking at the bottom line.
    I have noticed that "this" comes up almost every time a thread about Specialized comes up and I noticed that you are almost always the one who brings it up. It's getting to the point that I look forward to seeing how long it takes you to go from "I'd take bike X over a Specialized (fill in the blank)" to " Specialized represents everything evil in the universe and besides they used to say that they don't like so don't buy one! Please what ever you do please don't get a life, don't move on and do keep beating that horse ( I think I saw it flinch quick hit it again!) I need the laughs.
    If I had a black light this place would look like a Jackson Pollock painting.

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    I have also observed.

    Quote Originally Posted by reydin
    I have noticed that "this" comes up almost every time a thread about Specialized comes up and I noticed that you are almost always the one who brings it up. It's getting to the point that I look forward to seeing how long it takes you to go from "I'd t ake bike X over a Specialized (fill in the blank)" to " Specialized represents everything evil in the universe and besides they used to say that they don't like so don't buy one! Please what ever you do please don't get a life, don't move on and do keep beating that horse ( I think I saw it flinch quick hit it again!) I need the laughs.
    that you choose to defend everything specialized. As you can read (hopefully) there are plenty of other people that choose not to be a specialized "associate". Since you get so offended from my opinion of them, maybe you are the one that should get a life. If you can squeeze your lips from sinyards teet, you might be able to see them for who they are. everything I have said about them is my opinion , which like I said, is what we are here for. If you would like to make it personal because my opinion of them differs from your fan-boy, teet sucking, groupie view, then let's flame on.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruso414
    as mentioned in an earlier post, specialized would and has sued everyone over everything. how the f#ck do you sue over a screw off top on a water bottle? as I said before, enjoy your bike and we can all enjoy the opinions, that's why we are all here.

    10-4
    I was too drunk and too much in pain to ride. Good times. - TacoBeer

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruso414
    that you choose to defend everything specialized. As you can read (hopefully) there are plenty of other people that choose not to be a specialized "associate". Since you get so offended from my opinion of them, maybe you are the one that should get a life. If you can squeeze your lips from sinyards teet, you might be able to see them for who they are. everything I have said about them is my opinion , which like I said, is what we are here for. If you would like to make it personal because my opinion of them differs from your fan-boy, teet sucking, groupie view, then let's flame on.
    Perhaps you might provide an example of my defense "everything Specialized" other than the fact that I like the the S-Works carbon ht enough to order one. As for your opinion, I just wonder why you don't have the integrity to start with the "Specialized bad, don't buy" part instead of the "I think X is a better choice because..." part, instead of the other way around. Or maybe you could start your responses the every Specialized thread with " I hate Specialized because...". As far as my being offended by your opinion, that might have been true the first ten or twenty times now it's just predictably funny. I'd keep going but there's teets to suck on.
    If I had a black light this place would look like a Jackson Pollock painting.

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    it's easy (for most people) to look up previous threads that I have responded to. of all my posts, I have responded to 3, read that 3 threads about specialized. so apparently you have a complex that everyone is attacking you and your way of thinking. I am glad that you like the new giant/s-works/merida/token/felt frame.
    It's funny that you are the only one who chose to make or take this whole discussion as a personal attack. If you voiced your opinion that you didn't like the business practices of ANY of the bikes that I own, I don't give a f#ck. seems weird that you take it so personal when people point out things that specialized does.

  42. #42
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    If you wan to enjoy a ride go Niner. Not sure what amblake-fiddy is talking about. Niner has the best customer service and it is comparable to Turner's.

    Specialized makes good bikes. 29ers? not yet. Road bikes-absolutely! XC 26ers yep they are good.

    Specialized makes the best shoes, saddles, and cycling apparel IMHO...

    PS My Niner EMD has a Specialized Phenom saddle.
    Sit and spin my ass...

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruso414
    it's easy (for most people) to look up previous threads that I have responded to. of all my posts, I have responded to 3, read that 3 threads about specialized. so apparently you have a complex that everyone is attacking you and your way of thinking. I am glad that you like the new giant/s-works/merida/token/felt frame.
    It's funny that you are the only one who chose to make or take this whole discussion as a personal attack. If you voiced your opinion that you didn't like the business practices of ANY of the bikes that I own, I don't give a f#ck. seems weird that you take it so personal when people point out things that specialized does.
    , sir..you rock, in your own predictable way, I salute you!
    If I had a black light this place would look like a Jackson Pollock painting.

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    thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by reydin
    , sir..you rock, in your own predictable way, I salute you!
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruso414
    You may add perceptive to your long list of attributes.
    If I had a black light this place would look like a Jackson Pollock painting.

  46. #46
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    So I hate Specialized because....

    wait....what were we talkin' 'bout?

    So I think you wouldn't be disappointed in either. I was intrigued by the 2009 Stump HT. It has siding dropouts (well, they slide a little) which could give you the option of going SS without a whole new frame. 2010 doesn't have that. You might get a really good deal on an '09 now. All that being said I should have an EMD9 in my hands by mid week, so that's the direction I went.

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    Yea I'm tryin the stumpy this weekend. I really just want to try out some big wheels and see how I like them. I think I am leaning towards the EMD now rather than the air 9, but we will see. thanks for all the responses, even if half are irrelevant to my question lol

  48. #48
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    Do It
    Niner Air 9 vs Stumpjumper ht comp 29er-bike.jpg

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    Hi all ! Spec Stumpys dont break.....just sayin'

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruso414
    nobody was comparing their bikes to wallyworld bikes, just the companies business practices. Hell Giant builds them for them anyway and you don't see people disliking Giant the way they dislike specialized.

    bottom line is this, this forum is for "opinions". if you enjoy your specialized, good. give everyone your opinion. yours seems to be favorable of specialized, mine however is not. did you ever notice how this discussion comes up almost every time a thread about specialized is brought up? Giant is a large company and this doesn't seem to come up, why? Trek is a large company and this doesn't come up, why? it must be people just picking on poor ole specialized, huh? I think I will stay away from them, they already have enough "associates".

    btw, I don't have a Niner anymore but I think they are a great group of people, rather than a multi-national machine only looking at the bottom line.
    When you're going to try to spear someone, you should get your facts straight. Merida, being something like a 49% partner with Spec, makes their bikes... not Giant.

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    but there is one fact that is known...

    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh
    When you're going to try to spear someone, you should get your facts straight. Merida, being something like a 49% partner with Spec, makes their bikes... not Giant.
    specialized doesn't make anything.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruso414
    specialized doesn't make anything.
    Boy, you really do have blinders on.

    I said that Merida makes Specialized bikes... not Giant as you claim.

    You apparently have some bug up your but about Specialized.

  53. #53
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    Bikes are big business with big money at stake. Trek would sue if you copied their new ABP design - pediod. They wouldn't let you just copy it out of the goodness of their own hearts.

    Specialized 'bought' the horst link design patent. They paid money for it and own the rights to the design. Several companies license the design from them legally and use it on their bikes. Those that copy it without permission get sued. That's life. The same principles hold true and happen regularly with cars, music, medicine, computers, product design, toys, gaming, etc.

    For the record - I've owned alot of bikes including a few specialized. I'm no S zealot. I'd gladly ride a bike from any manufacturer that works. All bike companies have the same practices, it's just that S makes a huge line of products so there is a greater chance of their stuff getting copied.

    If you think copying and fine tuning of designs isn't common, then you're crazy. Just look at Maestro, CVA, DW-Link and even VPP designs. There are differences in the way they function, but you can't tell me they weren't studying the early designs during the process. You also can't tell me they wouldn't sue if someone copied the design too closely.
    Last edited by NCtrailX; 11-02-2009 at 04:39 AM.

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    so i just tested a stumpjumper today. this was also my first time on a 29er and I was pretty impressed. Definitely rolls over a lot more than a 26er and climbs seemed much easier. I found myself not getting off my bike nearly as much as I would have on a 26er. The only thing that I didnt really like was it seemed sluggish on flats, but I think that may also have to do with me being out of shape. Regardless, I'm pretty sure that I am going to go the 29er route, most likely niner emd

  55. #55
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    That's probably you being out of shape. My 29er feels faster on flats than any 26er ever did. Actually I feel faster on everything with my 29er.

    EDIT: Might also be that this is the first MTB I've had with such nice componentry.

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    One thing I find with my 29er is it likes to go fast and not slow. Usually that's a good thing as fast is fun. Sometimes it is a bad thing as it makes me push harder than I should. It also does feel a bit sluggish (although for me, that word overstates it a bit) when at those low speeds.

    I'm on an AIR9 and love it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sthrnfat
    Bikes are big business with big money at stake. Trek would sue if you copied their new ABP design - pediod. They wouldn't let you just copy it out of the goodness of their own hearts.

    Specialized 'bought' the horst link design patent. They paid money for it and own the rights to the design. Several companies license the design from them legally and use it on their bikes. Those that copy it without permission get sued. That's life. The same principles hold true and happen regularly with cars, music, medicine, computers, product design, toys, gaming, etc.

    For the record - I've owned alot of bikes including a few specialized. I'm no S zealot. I'd gladly ride a bike from any manufacturer that works. All bike companies have the same practices, it's just that S makes a huge line of products so there is a greater chance of their stuff getting copied.

    If you think copying and fine tuning of designs isn't common, then you're crazy. Just look at Maestro, CVA, DW-Link and even VPP designs. There are differences in the way they function, but you can't tell me they weren't studying the early designs during the process. You also can't tell me they wouldn't sue if someone copied the design too closely.
    The Horst link or 4-bar was being used before spec started suing people to stop once they bought the patent. Thats different then developing something on your own. (ABP)Don't see many people trying to copy the brain do you? And just wondering do you know of any other company that sued other bike companies to stop using a design that was in the public domain before you bought a patent for it? Why didn't Horst stop people from using it? Not disputing patents that is a clear cut law just the aggressive prosecution by a large company against small timers in the business and the chilling effect this has on development of new ideas.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you'll crash.

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