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  1. #1
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    Moderator please delete. Thanks.

    Problem solved. Kona took care of it. It was damaged in freight. Most derailled thread ever.
    Last edited by STACK; 08-11-2013 at 09:08 PM.

  2. #2
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    New bike.. 2 millimeter Clearance on one side of rear cage. Need expert advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by STACK View Post
    I'm not a lbs basher, so I am going to be calm. But the back wheel of the bike I picked up today is not centered/true'd and there is literally 2-4 millimeters of clearance on the top right of the back cage. It is slowing the bike noticeably simply from the hairs on the back tire rubbing so deep. The clearance on the bottom of the back cage worried me when I picked it up, it's about a centimeter, I brought it up to the guy tht put it together and his answer was "it's not rubbing." I did not notice the off centeredness of the wheel causing the hair width clearance in the top of the cage.


    The bike is not high end, it's a kona mahuna. I did not expect it to be light, or anything spectacular, but I wanted to try a 29er for a couple years for some commuting and light trail. I had a blast as my first bike from 04 to 09' before buying a nicer specialized. The kona blast gave me ZERO problems for 5 years of trail riding for the price it was amazing. Anyways, how much clearance is the minimum which should be accepted from the bike shop? I can't imagine this bike not rubbing against the frame in short order, but maybe there is something about 29er bikes I need to know. I have previously liked kona's a lot, and I am a millimeter (literally) away from writing a really bad review. Also, I'm thinking about upgrading to a kula, would that take care of what looks like a bad factory frame and a lbs afraid to tell me that it is such?

    Some expert advice or other would be appreciated. I there is a kona rep on here, I was thinking about also getting a new blast to be my kick around 26, and Maybe you could save a couple future sales by explaining to me the best course of action.
    Cage? What Cage?

    If you are upset with the setup of the bike, ask to see the manager.
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  3. #3
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    It sounds like the rear end is twisted. measure the dropouts from left to right in the same place, do this at different ends, and see if you get the same measurement every time, indicating they are parallel. You could also try putting on a different wheel to see if that is centered so you'll know if its wheel or frame. Generally, there's a lot less clearance by the chainstays (bottom cage in your terminology, I presume) because they have to be narrow enough for your pedals and chainrings to clear. Regardless, they should fix it and you should make sure another straight wheel works, as if they just redish the wheel to center it, you will have problems with other wheels and the frame is compromised as well as bent.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Cage? What Cage?

    If you are upset with the setup of the bike, ask to see the manager.
    The frame. The frame around the back wheel. I ordered the bike straight from the owner. She sounded like she barely had the money to pay for the shipping, respectively, I barely have enough to buy smaller tires and business is tough starting out. She already laid the "I won't be able to sell this" crap on me when I ordered the bike. I want a decent kona for light trail and commuting, I don't want to return the bike, but it looks like a frame problem and it's going to be a f'n hassle. This made in china crap needs to stop. Bikes are getting more expensive and the specs for the price and quality are going down dammit. I'm tired of it. It didn't have to be a raving bike, but these dam bikes need to WORK at over 700.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by PretendGentleman View Post
    It sounds like the rear end is twisted. measure the dropouts from left to right in the same place, do this at different ends, and see if you get the same measurement every time, indicating they are parallel. You could also try putting on a different wheel to see if that is centered so you'll know if its wheel or frame. Generally, there's a lot less clearance by the chainstays (bottom cage in your terminology, I presume) because they have to be narrow enough for your pedals and chainrings to clear. Regardless, they should fix it and you should make sure another straight wheel works, as if they just redish the wheel to center it, you will have problems with other wheels and the frame is compromised as well as bent.

    Thank you. I could have lived with the oddly close chainstay distance, but the literal 2-4 milimeter on the top right side (as opposed to the 7/8 of an inch on the other side) is too much to deal with. I was a total easy sale because I just found the bike I wanted and ordered it without being a tough sale, and I feel as though being the easy guy to deal with is not paying off..

  6. #6
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    It could be as simple as the wheel is in the dropouts crooked? If everything is in there straight, your LBS should be able to redish the rear wheel pretty quickly. You could that yourself, you need to tighten the spokes on the side it needs to move to and loosen the other side, 1/2 turn at a time. If you turn each spoke the same amount, the overall trueness should remain.

    Also, if you wheel is in there crooked and the brake is not rubbing, it will when you straighten the wheel. That is also a fast and easy fix.

    Is it offset on both the chainstay and seat stay positions?
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  7. #7
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    This has got to be one of the oddest posts I've ever seen on here. Who is she? Who said She already laid the "I won't be able to sell this" crap on me when I ordered the bike. I mean, wasn't that a clue? Where and how did you obtain this bike? And why wouldn't you return it? "I want a decent kona for light trail" so buy a better or new Kona. I may be dumb, but none of this makes sense.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manicmtbr View Post
    It could be as simple as the wheel is in the dropouts crooked? If everything is in there straight, your LBS should be able to redish the rear wheel pretty quickly. You could that yourself, you need to tighten the spokes on the side it needs to move to and loosen the other side, 1/2 turn at a time. If you turn each spoke the same amount, the overall trueness should remain.

    Also, if you wheel is in there crooked and the brake is not rubbing, it will when you straighten the wheel. That is also a fast and easy fix.

    Is it offset on both the chainstay and seat stay positions?
    Surprisingly it is only off on the seat stay. The bottom (chain stay?) is too close for my taste, but it's a big tire in there and I could live with that. I do bike maintenance after I've ridden a few rough rides, but I really don't want to true a wheel the day I get a bike.. I mean wtf are we paying for??

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegweed View Post
    This has got to be one of the oddest posts I've ever seen on here. Who is she? Who said She already laid the "I won't be able to sell this" crap on me when I ordered the bike. I mean, wasn't that a clue? Where and how did you obtain this bike? And why wouldn't you return it? "I want a decent kona for light trail" so buy a better or new Kona. I may be dumb, but none of this makes sense.
    I ordered a kona mountain bike (over the phone) from a newer bike place which is in a city an mostly rents bikes, dealt straight with the owner who was kind of off and on and who gave me her cell number for no reason (I didn't ask for it) and then acted annoyed when I used it after she told me to do so. I picked up the bike today, and the back wheel isn't true'd and there is 2-4 millimeters clearance on one side of the seat stay. The owner already gave me a guilt trip about having to pay for shipping, which was odd to me. So basically, this being my first 29er, I wanted to know whether I was over reacting to the basically zero clearance between the tire and the frame, or if bikes (29ers) had changed and tiny clearances were normal.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by STACK View Post
    Surprisingly it is only off on the seat stay. The bottom (chain stay?) is too close for my taste, but it's a big tire in there and I could live with that. I do bike maintenance after I've ridden a few rough rides, but I really don't want to true a wheel the day I get a bike.. I mean wtf are we paying for??
    If I am understanding, it is closer on the bottom than the top? Or vice versa? If so, I think your wheel is just in there crooked. Loosen the Q/R and see if you can straighten the wheel and tighten again.

    Or just take it back and have the shop check it out?
    Thanks to www.weavercycleworks.com for my awesome bike frames!

  11. #11
    squish, squish in da fish
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    ^^^yeah, that. make sure the skewer is plenty tight as it can be centered one minute then as you ride it will usually pull to the drive side. which sounds like what it's doin'

  12. #12
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    New bike.. 2 millimeter Clearance on one side of rear cage. Need expert advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by STACK View Post
    I ordered a kona mountain bike (over the phone) from a newer bike place which is in a city an mostly rents bikes, dealt straight with the owner who was kind of off and on and who gave me her cell number for no reason (I didn't ask for it) and then acted annoyed when I used it after she told me to do so. I picked up the bike today, and the back wheel isn't true'd and there is 2-4 millimeters clearance on one side of the seat stay. The owner already gave me a guilt trip about having to pay for shipping, which was odd to me. So basically, this being my first 29er, I wanted to know whether I was over reacting to the basically zero clearance between the tire and the frame, or if bikes (29ers) had changed and tiny clearances were normal.
    Sounds like you just need to have the bike looked at by somebody that actually knows about bicycles. The fix is probably simple, but can not be solved over the Internet.
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  13. #13
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    Buy a good (doesn't have to be expensive, maybe $500) bike from a shop and learn about bikes. Then go buying the craigslist stuff.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Sounds like you just need to have the bike looked at by somebody that actually knows about bicycles. The fix is probably simple, but can not be solved over the Internet.
    I mag not have the lingo down, but I have taken apart a bike, changed/fixed broken chains, bled brakes, and added little things like new stems and parts to a bike. I have a bike multi tool, and I'm not afraid to use it. I'm also not a master obviously. But the guy who put it together is supposed to be better than me I believe, he does it for work. I could probably learn to do the job in a couple months of in the job training with what I have already done. But damn, when you buy a car are you suppose to have to change a f'n brake rotor the first day you get it?? And honestly, I think it's the frame, one side seems to flare out a little more than the other. It's china, they make sh** at low salaries and long hours as cheap as possible and they don't like the rest of the world that much, the lower quality while not really saving anything crap needs to stop. I have been pissed and ranty ever since I saw the problem. I bought a Scott last year that I got into an accident with (I got broadsided at night, almost head on but turned away last second) and the back tire rubbed against the frame.. I reset THAT wheel a centimeter every other week so I can still ride it, so this new bike looking like its going to be grinding it's wheel against the frame hit a bit of a soft spot.

  15. #15
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    First and foremost, perhaps you should learn a thing or two about bicycles. What looks to be a defect to you COULD be how the frame was designed. Assymetrical chainstays are nothing new.

    Also, you could have a wheel that is not properly dished.

    Or, the frame could have been damaged in shipping.

    There are literally hundreds of people on the "Chinese Carbon Frame" threads with positive experiences on $300 Chinese carbon frames. They've been raced by plenty of people, including the 2012 UCI XC Marathon world champion.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    First and foremost, perhaps you should learn a thing or two about bicycles. What looks to be a defect to you COULD be how the frame was designed. Assymetrical chainstays are nothing new.

    Also, you could have a wheel that is not properly dished.

    Or, the frame could have been damaged in shipping.

    There are literally hundreds of people on the "Chinese Carbon Frame" threads with positive experiences on $300 Chinese carbon frames. They've been raced by plenty of people, including the 2012 UCI XC Marathon world champion.
    I know more about bikes than my lack of correct lingo makes it sound. I'm thinking I should have just waited and got the moto titanium, speaking of chinese bikes.. I know about wheels rubbing against frames and how that is bad, because it happened to my Scott.. And I have been re-tightening it in the wrong spot so I can ride it and don't have to recycle the frame. The brake isn't rubbing, of I just readjust the wheel I can't see that staying the same. Could I mess with the back brake? Yeah, but I shouldn't freakin have to. I'm taking it back in 2maro to see of they can make it right, I know there is something wrong. And what you said about bikes geometry and me not being familiar with it, do 29ers have less clearance all around because of the size of the wheel? Because I have had a few decent 26ers and I know what they are supposed to look like..

  17. #17
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    Instead of strutting on here, why don't you try what has been suggested and see if maybe the wheel is not sitting in the drop out properly, even an experience person can make this mistake if in a hurry putting back in a wheel. If that's not the case, then at least say you tried that, so those on here trying to help can know you actually are giving a go instead of being an ass. If that doesn't work, then as said, you might have an out of alignment frame and that's between the bike shop and Kona, nothing to do with you, how much they paid to ship it in, anything, that's why you bought from a shop, let them deal with it.

    Lastly, a photo is worth a thousand words, especially when your terminology could be wrong and leading people astray in terms of what's going on.
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  18. #18
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    Kona would definitely warranty this if it is what it sounds like: a bent rear triangle.

    Stack, when you communicate with us, try to be more concise so we know what you're talking about.

    29ers do not have clearance problems with stock tires, It's possible, but very unlikely. The frame is probably the problem, but if they are able to fix the bike without making you wait for a new one, make sure you find another 29er wheel to put in the frame to make sure they didn't just dish the wheel. If they did you'll also notice that they may have fixed the gaps at the seatstays, the chainstays have uneven gaps, this is impossible to avoid when adjusting a wheel to a twisted frame.

    This is not something that is your responsibility. Go in there and ask them to warranty it; you do have legal rights. If they give you trouble, hopefully you payed with credit card and you can dispute the charge and move on to a different bike shop and get a new bike. If you did not pay with credit card and the shop won't work with you, contact kona ASAP. You need pictures of the problem too. Go check out Kona's website and compare online pictures of the bike.

    This has nothing to do with the quality of labor or machinery in chinese manufacturing. The chinese did not wrong you, the bike shop did. Low-cost manufacturing makes bike parts cheaper and better overall. Globablism has other problems, but its not a general decline in manufacturing quality of bicycles by any means. In general, you get a lot more bike for your money now than ever, but it's sometimes hard to see due to inflation and technology change.

  19. #19
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    My CPU at home recently broke, and all I have is an I-phone. (go china!! Lol)

    I could text a picture, but I've never embedded a pic off a phone on a forum. I really wish I could though.

  20. #20
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    New bike.. 2 millimeter Clearance on one side of rear cage. Need expert advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by STACK View Post
    I mag not have the lingo down, but I have taken apart a bike, changed/fixed broken chains, bled brakes, and added little things like new stems and parts to a bike. I have a bike multi tool, and I'm not afraid to use it. I'm also not a master obviously. But the guy who put it together is supposed to be better than me I believe, he does it for work. I could probably learn to do the job in a couple months of in the job training with what I have already done. But damn, when you buy a car are you suppose to have to change a f'n brake rotor the first day you get it?? And honestly, I think it's the frame, one side seems to flare out a little more than the other. It's china, they make sh** at low salaries and long hours as cheap as possible and they don't like the rest of the world that much, the lower quality while not really saving anything crap needs to stop. I have been pissed and ranty ever since I saw the problem. I bought a Scott last year that I got into an accident with (I got broadsided at night, almost head on but turned away last second) and the back tire rubbed against the frame.. I reset THAT wheel a centimeter every other week so I can still ride it, so this new bike looking like its going to be grinding it's wheel against the frame hit a bit of a soft spot.
    If this "mechanic" and shop owner are as you portray them, they are not competent. Period. Seek other help.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    If this "mechanic" and shop owner are as you portray them, they are not competent. Period. Seek other help.
    It sounds like a warranty issue to me. The manufacturer will likely not be too keen on working with him through another shop. If you go to another shop and they warranty the frame, they might (reasonably) charge to change the parts over: charges for stripping one frame and rebuilding another can easily exceed $100. On a new bike the seller should take care of this as long as you get to them quickly. If they won't cooperate, hopefully you payed with a credit card, and your credit card company, assuming you have reasonable terms, has plenty of muscle to reign in a recalcitrant bike shop.

  22. #22
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    Ok, I took it back today, after picking it up yesterday. The owner was there and she was very appropriate and courteous. She had the mechanic look at it pretty much right away. I went for a walk with the lady by the water while he looked at it. He couldn't fix it. It was actually making noise from running this morning. She is going to talk to the kona people and we are going to try and work it out. If a new frame is necessary I may upgrade to a better frame/model. I was as friendly as I could be, and she didn't make me feel to stupid for it, which I appreciate. But I knew there was a problem there, an I was right. It may have been damaged in transit or something. Like I said before, I had kona blast I rode HARD for 5 solid years not needing to make any major repairs even once.. So I guess this incident balances that out lol. I'm sticking with them because a bike you ride rocky/roots single track with that you got for less than1g is nothing to sneeze at, I hope it gets taken care of soon.

  23. #23
    get down!
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    Stop bashing on China bro. You sound like an idiot when you toss that around.
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  24. #24
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    New bike.. 2 millimeter Clearance on one side of rear cage. Need expert advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    Stop bashing on China bro. You sound like an idiot when you toss that around.
    Agreed. I have seen bad stuff come from everywhere, including the USofA.
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  25. #25
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    New bike.. 2 millimeter Clearance on one side of rear cage. Need expert advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by PretendGentleman View Post
    It sounds like a warranty issue to me. The manufacturer will likely not be too keen on working with him through another shop. If you go to another shop and they warranty the frame, they might (reasonably) charge to change the parts over: charges for stripping one frame and rebuilding another can easily exceed $100. On a new bike the seller should take care of this as long as you get to them quickly. If they won't cooperate, hopefully you payed with a credit card, and your credit card company, assuming you have reasonable terms, has plenty of muscle to reign in a recalcitrant bike shop.
    I can not say that yet.

    I think the bike should be looked at by somebody else, but that does not need to be another shop, just to see if there is a simple fix or if the problem is bigger.

    Does sound like his shop is willing to work with him--after he actually went in rather than just whine about it here.

    I would still recommend getting a 2nd opinion. No decent shop mechanic would let a new bike leave the work area--let alone out the door--in the condition described.
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