Jayem...need a harder gear for the 20% or better!..who are you Lance?...you need to show me what I'm doing wrong...i can't ride anything harder than my 22x34 up those climbs...and i'm still hurtin bad
Just ride and quit bit$hin........
Scalpel 29 #1...ONE9-SS-....Supersix-EVO soon....
Steepest somewhat cleanable climb I ever found in a race, I did not make on the granny gear. No way to get traction. In the middle ring, I did make it. Getting off the bike cost me time. This was short and crazy steep, but too long to be able to sprint it up, carrying momentum.
Jayem...need a harder gear for the 20% or better!..who are you Lance?...you need to show me what I'm doing wrong...i can't ride anything harder than my 22x34 up those climbs...and i'm still hurtin bad
Maybe a few less wings and Bud Lights and you can climb Ginny in the big ring.
Just keep looking at your top tube and do what it says, "Pedal Damn It"
I just got food poisoning. I'm not sure when I'll use it - Steven Wright
Just come on down for a visit with that attitude then I'd love to show you around, heck I'd even almost make sure you had a free place to stay, just to be able to watch the fun ROFLMA Just ask any who has come down here what happens on an island that is only 144 square miles, it's freaking hilarious when all the bad boys come down and first thing ask after the first hill is "Don't you guys have switchbacks?" We just laugh mostly Won't even get into the temps etc down here. There's a few who visit these boards who have ridden with me down here, so if they want to chime in...
Just curious where you got that wondeful description from?
FYI I have been to CO twice, first time I ran a standard 22/32/44 ring and 11-34 cassette, last time I ran a 24/34/46 set and 17-34 casette, wasn't nearly as fit as the first time and still made it up a what my technical skills would allow.
Originally Posted by D.F.L.
Mt. Hillaby: 334 Meters. highest point in Barbados. Terrain: relatively flat; rises gently to central highland region.
Perhaps it was discovered by the great mountain climber, Sir Edmund Hillaby
I'll just say it again and again and again: we're only asking for the equivalent of a 26er 22/34 low gear. If you think that this is too low, please spend your time and energy telling the 26er people that their CURRENT gearing is too low and they're worthless and weak.
I like to try climbing things that others prefer to walk. I'm not on a bike because I like to walk. I don't care if walking is faster; to me, this is a challenge. When I'm on a steep technical climb, at my aerobic threshold, making a big step-up or power move takes me anaerobic, and I need a bail-out gear to get my heart rate down. Getting off and walking isn't a good solution when the goal is to clean a section.
So it's my ego (wanting to make a climb) vs someone else' ego (thinks I'm a wuss)...
Yeah, my balance just plain sucks under 1.5mph, which is about where I calculate I would be with that gearing. I know anyone can balance going that slow, even your Gran Seriously I've gone down to about 2.5mph on a few climbs and balancing for any length of time, no matter what gear ratio you use will not be sustainable for very long. I'll make sure next visit I get someone to map out all those type trails where I'm visiting and go see if I can clean it using my "manly" 24-34 combo
FYI, I HATE to walk my bike and try to ride EVRYTHING.
Originally Posted by BruceBrown
So you have identified yourself as not having athletic balance, but lambasting those of us who do as being lazy or having a lack of fitness? .................................................. .............
And work on your athleticism - ya big lazy out of shape weenie.....
BB
Last edited by LyNx; 02-14-2009 at 03:39 PM.
One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching?? MTB Barbados My MTB vids
I am glad to see this cassette available, but I will vote with they guys that want to go smaller in the front. That seems like a much better idea. Either way you go, the strength of the freehub becomes a problem as the torque multiplies.
Thanks for that. We ill-fitted weenies appreciate your concern.
.... when other people tell you what you don't need or want?
I ride with a guy who was bagging on me using dual control shifters with a regular rise derailleur, saying I'm doing it all wrong. He was also bagging on me for leaving the thumb releases on my dual controls. He was actually getting pissed at me for not removing them.
luckynino on eBay sells the Ti cassettes. Mine is heavy compared to the 32t and 30t versions. You can also pick up the Cycle King Ti cassette from a Hong Kong seller here.
There are threads over on the weight weenie board devoted to the introduction and refinement of luckynino's Ti cassette. It currently is in the 2nd generation and is trick.
Here's the first generation which I just replaced with the new 2nd (the red)...
How have these cassettes held up? Strong enough for a 250+lb Clyde?
Originally Posted by pimpbot
.... when other people tell you what you don't need or want?
I ride with a guy who was bagging on me using dual control shifters with a regular rise derailleur, saying I'm doing it all wrong. He was also bagging on me for leaving the thumb releases on my dual controls. He was actually getting pissed at me for not removing them.
How have these cassettes held up? Strong enough for a 250+lb Clyde?
There are comparable to an XTR for longevity, strength, etc... . 1st generation had some rivets that were too tall on some cassettes causing possible chain catch glitches unless filed down. Actually, only 3 or 4 of his cassettes had this problem (mine being one of those few). I had Nino swap mine out to a 2nd generation. Thread about it here. There are pictures and explanations in that thread. Great customer service for the swap.
For all practical purposes, the two larger cog sections are just like the XTR cassette. The smaller cogs and spacers is where the weight savings comes over the XTR. In fact, Nino combined the smaller cogs and spacers with the two larger portions of an XTR cassette and the weight was the same - 187g for the 11-34T.
These are XC race cassettes (XTR, Nino's Ti, Cycle King Ti). I don't think it comes down to whether or not one is a Clyde. Probably more to do with how much power you can put to the pedal. That doesn't change as your weight goes up, so I don't see why body weight would effect the strength of a cassette. I would, however, ask in that thread linked above about your weight and if you should have any concerns before buying any $180+ XC race cassette.
BB
The 14 warmest years have all occurred in the 16 years since 1997.
I am glad to see this cassette available, but I will vote with they guys that want to go smaller in the front. That seems like a much better idea. Either way you go, the strength of the freehub becomes a problem as the torque multiplies.
Many folks looking at this cassette will be doing the low geared crankset as well.
Alot of you folks maybe weren't around in the early 90's when we were running Micro-Drive cranksets, 34T rear cogs, and some were even using Quad Tamers........on 26"ers!
Low gearing isn't anything new, it's just finally getting around to us 29"er folks. That's the way I see it. YMMV
BruceBrown: bingo! you are right on as these tough uphills take our body to the limit. it seems like such a crazy kind of upside down sport, doesn't it? in walking, running, swimming, etc you can decide how fast you want to go, how much you want to push yourself. not in MTB, here the terrain rules, here is where the terrain will dictate the limits of your body. probably the best tool i have bought for my bike is a heart rate monitor and i can tell you after 2 years of 2 to 5 rides a week on my 29er, there is no ride where at some stage i have not gone over 85% of my maximal heart rate. so it's pretty obvious i would like lower gearing on my bike for when the climbs get longer and tougher, but not at the expense of so much weight added. i'm no weight weenie, but every added once over 30 lbs is real pain to haul up those hills.
Originally Posted by BruceBrown
I rode a 20T ring with a 34T granny cog on my 26"er in the Alps up stuff that was so steep, it was not spinning like a hamster on crack. It was measured pedal power cadence between 60 - 80 rpm vs. balance vs. red zone heart rate. Very hard to keep it out of the 105%, non sustainable heart rate zone while staying on the bike. The 20 - 34 combo on the 29"er is not quite the same forgiveness, but I imagine the 20 - 36 would be.
I wouldn't totally trust a titanium cog with very low gearing and a big strong guy. I have been on the tandem listserve for years and there are several stories of XTR 11-34's/12-34/s breaking under the strain of 2 legs. Generally, the lowest gear a tandeem runs is 30-34 although 24-34 is possible but almost nobody uses it, so I would expect a big strong guy with a 22-34 to put at least as much torque through the cog as a 30-34 geared tandem does. Only total weight weenie tandems run XTR cassetts.
Another data point is that the rear hub that Santana uses on their Sweet 16 tandem wheels has all the exact same internals as the XT MTB hub Shimano makes except they space them out to 160 instead of 135 and have a wider flange spacing for a tandem. They seldom ever break on tandems, but I read about people on this list breaking those same hubs all the time. So if the tandems are breaking the cogs but seldom the hubs and the MTB's are breaking the hubs then I would be hesitant use ti cogs if I was a big strong rider and had low gearing. Like the guy that wrote he has broken 4 XT hubs-definately should not get an XTR cassett.
Since I am old and realatively light and a spinner, I have an XTR 12-34 on my Niner.
But, the industry (including Middleburn) has also introduced 2 x 9 rings in the 27/40 combination for this season which removes the need for a 36T out back.
Who is making 27-40 double cranks besides Middleburn?
Who is making 27-40 double cranks besides Middleburn?
What is the bcd on the chainrings?
Rotor has 2 x 9 Q Rings in 27/40 that take the 110/74mm BCD. Action-Tec makes a 27T in 58mm BCD. Mattias on the Weight Weenie board has the proper equipment for you to custom order a steel, aluminum or Ti 27T (he made an aluminum for me in 58mm BCD). And, of course, there are a lot of 26T or 28T granny rings available in various BCD's from a variety of brands.
TA makes all kinds of goodies including a 40T 94mm BCD that can be used in the outer or middle slot. I don't know if they make a 27T inner ring, but they do make a 26T and a 28T. Sugino makes a 38T, a 39T and a 40T for 110mm BCD that can be run in the middle slot, but the cheaper one has no ramps/pins. I don't know if they have a more expensive version with ramps or not. I know they do in 42T. Salsa makes a 40T in 94mm BCD, but no ramps. They have a 39T in 110mm BCD as well, but no ramps. Middleburn makes a 40T that is ramped and comes in 94mm BCD as well as 110mm BCD.
I'm sure there are several other chainring options available - not to mention a custom Ti order from Action-Tec or Boone (are they still doing custom orders?).
The easiest 2 x 9 set up, IMO, will be the Middleburn Duo in 27/40 because you just pop it on an ISIS 113mm spindle and presto - perfect chainline. As I have said before, Middleburn used to make the 27/40 combo back in the RS1 days. Now that they are in the RS7 and RS8 model cycles, it's nice to see them bring it back as the 27/40 2 x 9 covers a good range for XC racing in the mountains.
BB
The 14 warmest years have all occurred in the 16 years since 1997.
I grew up riding in the age of 24x28 low gears, and 26" wheels. I've since moved on to the greener pastures of 29" wheels and single speeds. Oh, and 1x9's.
That being said, don't you run into a point where gearing becomes so slow that is really IS faster to walk? Where the going is slow enough that balance is hard to keep? I dunno if its just me, or what, but it seems like a 20 x 36 combo would be nearing trackstand territory while climbing. Sounds like it'd actually be more difficult.
Take this with a grain of salt. Its been a while since I've done any BIG climbing. I do plenty of steep here, but nothing big or long.
... but like I said before, I'm out to ride, not walk. I don't care which is faster.
Also, with a 36 in back, I would could probably get away with the 22t up front just fine, which means I don;t have to mod my cranks to fit a 20t and deal with chain suck, get super expensive new 5 arm compact, or find older used 5 arm compact and hope the square taper interface is still good, and I'd rather not go back to ISIS disposable bottom brackets.
*edit*
Hey, on a thread jacking side note.... What older cranks should I look for in a compact 5 arm? RaceFace Turbines are kinda pricey, even used. IIRC, there was a shimano XT and LX 5 arm compact... M730s? Anything else?
These are XC race cassettes (XTR, Nino's Ti, Cycle King Ti). I don't think it comes down to whether or not one is a Clyde. Probably more to do with how much power you can put to the pedal. That doesn't change as your weight goes up, so I don't see why body weight would effect the strength of a cassette. I would, however, ask in that thread linked above about your weight and if you should have any concerns before buying any $180+ XC race cassette.
BB
Thanks for the info. My weight is up because I am into weightlifting and bodybuilding and spend the winter in the gym. I normally weigh 230. (Still rather heavy.) My strength goes up alot with my weight (but endurance sure does take a hit.)
Count me as another old weak guy who wants one for the 1*9 - any info about price and when it's coming out?
If you base it on the other Shimano HG 9 speed 11 - 34T cassettes, the price will range in the $29.99 - $85 range give or take a few bucks. At least that would be my guess. Maybe slightly higher due to the larger granny cog.
To compare, here are the prices of Action-Tec's Titanium 9 speed cassettes (which is comparable with other Ti cassettes). Not trying to compare these with the new Shimano 12-36T, just showing the prices of those that are available now.
9 11-32 $192.50 1132-9
9 11-34 $218.00 1134-9
9 11-36 $259.00 1136-9
9 11-38 $280.00 1138-9
9 11-39 $280.00 1139-9
BB
The 14 warmest years have all occurred in the 16 years since 1997.
I like the RF turbines alot except for having to use a BB, whether it be a ISIS or Sq taper. A 30T 104 bcd ring that would fit my two piece XT would be perfect.
Anyway Diego told me last time you were over that he wants to study law @ harvard so you better save the dunkits..
Interestingly, Shimano is also going to introduce a 10 speed road cassette with a 28T low gear meant to be used with compact road gearing. Apparently there also will be some new rear derailluers to work with itas well. So, it would seem that Shimano is listening when it comes to gearing concerns.
You know, it's funny they think they need to redesign their derailleurs to work with a piddly 28t cog, because I'm running a current generation Ultegra 10s rear der on a 9s 11-32 cassette with no problems (a 12-25 is shown in the photos here) on my Fargo. I had to dial a bit of B-tension in to get it to have a sufficient gap on the 32t, but once I did that, it's been hammering off shifts really nicely. It's totally solid, which backs up the common wisdom that Shimano rates the "official" capacity of their derailleurs conservatively.
But yeah, it's encouraging to hear they're listening to the needs of riders looking for lower gearing, and especially with respect to 29-inch wheels. I certainly hope for a return to the 58/94 bolt circle, which is what I'm running on my Fargo, in the form of a '96-era XT crankset, currently with the stock 22/32/44 rings, but I'll be changing that around soon. I just got the bike built...
Who makes the smallest middle for a 94 BCD compact?
Originally Posted by BruceBrown
Rotor has 2 x 9 Q Rings in 27/40 that take the 110/74mm BCD. Action-Tec makes a 27T in 58mm BCD. Mattias on the Weight Weenie board has the proper equipment for you to custom order a steel, aluminum or Ti 27T (he made an aluminum for me in 58mm BCD). And, of course, there are a lot of 26T or 28T granny rings available in various BCD's from a variety of brands.
TA makes all kinds of goodies including a 40T 94mm BCD that can be used in the outer or middle slot. I don't know if they make a 27T inner ring, but they do make a 26T and a 28T. Sugino makes a 38T, a 39T and a 40T for 110mm BCD that can be run in the middle slot, but the cheaper one has no ramps/pins. I don't know if they have a more expensive version with ramps or not. I know they do in 42T. Salsa makes a 40T in 94mm BCD, but no ramps. They have a 39T in 110mm BCD as well, but no ramps. Middleburn makes a 40T that is ramped and comes in 94mm BCD as well as 110mm BCD.
I'm sure there are several other chainring options available - not to mention a custom Ti order from Action-Tec or Boone (are they still doing custom orders?).
The easiest 2 x 9 set up, IMO, will be the Middleburn Duo in 27/40 because you just pop it on an ISIS 113mm spindle and presto - perfect chainline. As I have said before, Middleburn used to make the 27/40 combo back in the RS1 days. Now that they are in the RS7 and RS8 model cycles, it's nice to see them bring it back as the 27/40 2 x 9 covers a good range for XC racing in the mountains.
BB
What's the small you can go on the middle of a 94BCD/compact crank?
The pics show my initial setup, chainrings are the same sizes but I have gone to a XTR (FCM-900 square taper) 180mm crank and added a ring guard made from a 42t outer ring with the teeth cut off mounted on the outer position.
In the 18/34 low gear I have learned to ride as slowly as 1mph. I can ride at up to about 4mph without spinning like mad. I have found the low to be more useful in techy climbing than I thought it might be.
The lower gearing on my Monk was really useful out in Colorado last summer. Some really long climbs out there and especially on the Monarch Crest, you get up to around 12k feet on that one.
As far as the 12-36 cassette goes, I'll get one when they come out, slap on my 11t high cog from my current xt 11-34 and literally give it a whirl. Might be too low, but how will I know until I try it?
I imagine you'd have to push the crank outboard with a longer spindle?
LinkBack URL
About LinkBacks
Reply With Quote
Originally Posted by dancruz
Seriously I've gone down to about 2.5mph on a few climbs and balancing for any length of time, no matter what gear ratio you use will not be sustainable for very long. I'll make sure next visit I get someone to map out all those type trails where I'm visiting and go see if I can clean it using my "manly" 24-34 combo 
