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  1. #1
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    Moots Mooto XZ 29er

    Any thoughts about the Moots Mooto XZ? I hate the idea of spending so much on a frame but my last custom ti frame lasted me 12 years. If this one does the same then its actually a great deal. I have never even riden a 29" bike but at 6'5" it seams to be logical. I love the prospect of knowing what normal sized people feel like on a 26" bike. The XZ model is not even available till feb so I am reluctant to buy a bike that has not been tested on the Market but I feel like I can trust a builder like Moots to put together a great design. Am I being too trusting?

    Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
    Last edited by ErrantGorgon; 01-15-2008 at 11:44 AM.

  2. #2
    prefers the wide stance
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    Just my opinion here, but I'm not sure I'm for titanium full suspension bikes. I have a moots smoothie. It's a beautiful bike. It does ride great. It climbs very well and descends pretty well. As a 26er, it is nice to have that rear wheel travel on technical, rocky descents. but If I were able to go back to 2001, i'd have opted for an aluminum platform for FS. I just think it's a no brainer.

    But if you're bent on a Moots, The YBB 29er is a solid bet. With the 1" susp. + tubeless should give you plenty of cush. Get a ti or carbon seatpost and you be even more comfy. A buddy just built one up and he's in love.



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  3. #3
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    Another vote for the YBB...I rode a MootoX for aout a year and if it were not for the wrong size I would still be riding it. It is hard to imagine a better all around bike.

  4. #4
    Schipperkes are cool.
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    If you came into the shop I work at, I would not recommend a soft tail, YBB, for Anyone your height, no matter what you weight is.
    Tall people put a lot of leverage on the YBB parts and it get cycled so fast the "piston sleeve" wears out within months, even being correctly serviced.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Better suited to non-aggressive 125# gals named Russell.

  5. #5
    ali'i hua
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    well, I'm for a ti 29er full squish, being the proud owner of a seven duo 29er. the only major issue that i could think of is that you should have pulled the trigger a while ago before the price of ti went up- my frame alone jumped about $800 just due to the cost of Ti.

    other than that, I couldn't be happier with my seven.

  6. #6
    PeT
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    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    ast the "piston sleeve" wears out within months, even being correctly serviced.
    I'm neither tall (6') nor heavy (163 lb), but I was going through a sleeve every year on my YBB, but I had to flip it once a year otherwise I would have been going through two a year. I was a fan of the YBB / soft-tail design until I got on a correctly fitted hard-tail 29er -- now I can't see why I ever put up with the po-go-ing, flex, and maintenance. The return on a soft-tail is just too incremental over a good, dialed-in hardtail to make it worth the time. Full-suspension or no-(active)suspension is my advice (fwiw)...
    "The plural of anecdote is not data." -- Attributed to various people in a variety of forms, but always worth remembering...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by xbrian
    Just my opinion here... i'd have opted for an aluminum platform for FS. I just think it's a no brainer.
    Just curious, why would aluminum be better for FS than Ti?

    Mikey

  8. #8
    ali'i hua
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyLikesIt
    Just curious, why would aluminum be better for FS than Ti?

    Mikey
    i'd venture a guess that a alu frame would be stiffer and supposedly have a better working suspension.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey
    Just curious, why would aluminum be better for FS than Ti?
    It's not that aluminium necessarily makes a better FS frame than Ti could, it's just that the expense of Ti and its material properties are kind of wasted if you have air or coil springs doing that work. Plus I would imagine that the material stiffness (Young's Modulus) of Ti could make for additional complexities in designing an FS bike which you don't have in a material as stiff as aluminium.

    I agree with PeT, if you're confident you want a 29"er (and I'd say you should) and the geometry you'd like, go with a lovely Moots Ti hardtail.

    Sam
    Yes - I do own Singular Cycles

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singular
    It's not that aluminium necessarily makes a better FS frame than Ti could, it's just that the expense of Ti and its material properties are kind of wasted if you have air or coil springs doing that work. Plus I would imagine that the material stiffness (Young's Modulus) of Ti could make for additional complexities in designing an FS bike which you don't have in a material as stiff as aluminium.

    I agree with PeT, if you're confident you want a 29"er (and I'd say you should) and the geometry you'd like, go with a lovely Moots Ti hardtail.

    Sam
    Thanks.

  11. #11
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    The Moots is a titanium front triangle and an aluminum rear triangle.

  12. #12
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    Im currently riding a custom ti hard tail. I love it, I have loved it for 12 years. However, given the fact that I am not getting any younger and the hard tail takes a toll on the back I thought that if I went full squish I might last longer each season.

    I actually prefer a dialed in hard tail myself and I have always recommended it to others but since my back does not prefer it, I think I'm going to go for FS.

    That being said, having never riden FS, is the suspension on the Moots XZ a proven design or are there others that are significantly superior? Overall bike weight is a big issue for me only because with the size of frame I ride and the fact that I cant ride ultra light wheels I need to keep my frame light.

  13. #13
    prefers the wide stance
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    in re: to mikeylikesit, i'd have to say the slowsser and singular put it best how I see it. I've been riding the smoothie for 6 years, and I really do love most everything about the bike. I thought it would be the last bike I'd ever own. Then i rode a 29er...pissed my wife off good...

    but if you're talking light, I am positive you can get an alu FS frame just as light as ti.

    I didn't know about issues with the YBB sleeve...so I can't comment on that, but it looks like it's not good for tall dudes.

    maybe it's where i live/ride nowadays (boise), but I really prefer riding my 853 HT SS to my smoothie. i feel it does just about everything better. That said, I'm looking at that vassago ti HT as a 1x9, mostly because I freaking love the look & feel of titanium, and don't have the balls to tell my wife i got another moots.

    With Moots, if you get a squishy or rigid rear, i doubt you'll be disappointed. they make pretty bikes that ride as well as anything. good luck with your decision

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantGorgon
    Im currently riding a custom ti hard tail. I love it, I have loved it for 12 years. However, given the fact that I am not getting any younger and the hard tail takes a toll on the back I thought that if I went full squish I might last longer each season.

    I actually prefer a dialed in hard tail myself and I have always recommended it to others but since my back does not prefer it, I think I'm going to go for FS.

    That being said, having never riden FS, is the suspension on the Moots XZ a proven design or are there others that are significantly superior? Overall bike weight is a big issue for me only because with the size of frame I ride and the fact that I cant ride ultra light wheels I need to keep my frame light.

    Have you looked at the Funk La Ruta 29er FS design? I am not sure how they compare for pricing but their design is one that takes advantage of the properties of Ti in the suspension design itself. You should be able to find threads on them here.

    G
    You can't depend on honest answers from dependant hands...

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singular
    It's not that aluminium necessarily makes a better FS frame than Ti could, it's just that the expense of Ti and its material properties are kind of wasted if you have air or coil springs doing that work. Plus I would imagine that the material stiffness (Young's Modulus) of Ti could make for additional complexities in designing an FS bike which you don't have in a material as stiff as aluminium.
    This statement sums up my feeling about ti FS frames. It seems like you want the suspension to do the job of soaking up the impacts and you want the front triangle to provide a solid platform for good handling. Most of the advantages of ti are negated by the suspension once you start talking about full suspension.

    And don't get me wrong - I love my ti hardtail, and I'd recommend it in a heartbeat; I also like FS bikes - I just wouldn't mix the two. Aluminum frames are plenty light now, and I'd guess you could get practically an entire boutique Turner/Ellsworth/Ventana/etc... bike for the cost of the ti frame with pretty much no performance gain.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantGorgon
    Overall bike weight is a big issue for me only because with the size of frame I ride and the fact that I cant ride ultra light wheels I need to keep my frame light.
    I talked to Moots about the frame weight and they say it will be at or over 6lbs for frame. I"m thinking that's probably a medium so you'll need to add more for your size. Look at the Niner Jet 9 coming out next month or a Lenz Leviathan 3.0/4.0 for a lighter frame. There are others which will serve you better.

    I've looked at this frame but the weight weenie in my says go lighter.

    HTH,
    L8
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  17. #17
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    Funk La Ruta Ti FS

    I agree with G-Live. I ride a Funk La Ruta (Ti Full Suspension with 3" travel), and the design suits Ti extremely well. There are no pivots on the La Ruta, so it uses a flat Ti plate coming off the bottom bracket. The frame is very light (4.5 lbs for an 21") and is very stiff.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinkertoys
    I agree with G-Live. I ride a Funk La Ruta (Ti Full Suspension with 3" travel), and the design suits Ti extremely well. There are no pivots on the La Ruta, so it uses a flat Ti plate coming off the bottom bracket. The frame is very light (4.5 lbs for an 21") and is very stiff.

    Would the suspension design be just as effective for someone aroung 215lbs? How long is the wait on one of those frames right now?

  19. #19
    PeT
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantGorgon
    How long is the wait on one of those frames right now?
    I think it would work very well, but I'd recommend waiting for the Black Sheep spin on that style of frame that's going to show up at the North American Handmade Bicycle Show in Portland, Be ready to burn-up the phone lines to James at Black Sheep on February 11th...
    "The plural of anecdote is not data." -- Attributed to various people in a variety of forms, but always worth remembering...

  20. #20
    Flight Junkie
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    If your looking for a proven rear suspended Ti FS frame, look at the Kent Eriksen Model. His is a custom Ti front and Ventana rear (can be 4" or 5" with different rockers). I have one set up with 5" and the White Brothers F135 fork and I love it!. Kent was the founder of Moots, and his frames are definetly up to Moots quality. He built mine with a large downtube and it is plenty stiff. I know there are people who would say don't get a Ti FS frame, but if you are looking for a custom frame, love Ti, and it can be built right, why not? Plus Ventana makes some of the stiffest rear ends and uses quad oversized bearings.
    ROTOR HEAD

  21. #21
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    My Dreeeeam Bike

    Quote Originally Posted by IBIKEAZ
    If your looking for a proven rear suspended Ti FS frame, look at the Kent Eriksen Model. His is a custom Ti front and Ventana rear (can be 4" or 5" with different rockers). I have one set up with 5" and the White Brothers F135 fork and I love it!. Kent was the founder of Moots, and his frames are definetly up to Moots quality. He built mine with a large downtube and it is plenty stiff. I know there are people who would say don't get a Ti FS frame, but if you are looking for a custom frame, love Ti, and it can be built right, why not? Plus Ventana makes some of the stiffest rear ends and uses quad oversized bearings.
    WELL SAID IMHO.
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  22. #22
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    Build time for Funk and 215 lbs.....

    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantGorgon
    Would the suspension design be just as effective for someone aroung 215lbs? How long is the wait on one of those frames right now?
    I'm not sure about the wait time, but I'd recommend you give Daryl a call and ask him about build time. Regarding your weight and height, I'd also recommend talking to Daryl about the different tubing options. Some of his designs use a Titanium down tube with a Carbon Fiber wrap. This further stiffens the front triangle, and it's pretty darn trick (I opted for the pure Ti downtube, but increased the wall thickness to stiffen the front end).

    As always, all the Ti Frame Builders in Colorado (Daryl Funk, James @ Black Sheep, and Kent Erikson, Moots, etc) are excellent choices, not to mention other builders in the USA. It comes down to which design, builder, and price you prefer.

    My .02....

  23. #23
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    I've seen Eriksen's FS bikes, and they are beautiful. But what is the point of the ti frame once you have made it stiff like an aluminum frame? I can justify spending all sorts of money on mountain bikes, but a ti FS frame is beyond even me. Now an Eriksen hardtail - that is something that doesn't take much justification!

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