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  1. #1

  2. #2
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    Nice - another 'RSL' in their line up. http://www.bikerumor.com/2010/08/19/...ium-road-bike/
    Happiness depends more on the inward disposition of mind than on outward circumstances. Benjamin Franklin

  3. #3
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    Awesome!

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    Any mention on what Moots is charging for this new offering?

  5. #5
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    Reminds me of the Specialized S-Works Hardtail in Ti. Little steeper seat tube angle, little slacker head tube angle, little longer chainstays. Looks really nice. I don't really think heading towards a 30.9mm seatpost is a great idea, but that is coming from someone who rides a 30.9mm post and weighs 160lbs (and wishes for a frame built around 27.2mm. Funny that Specialized made that change for 2011). I am sure it will feel great under anyone heavier than I am.

  6. #6
    jms
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    USE reducer bushing

    Quote Originally Posted by ia_ss157
    I don't really think heading towards a 30.9mm seatpost is a great idea, but that is coming from someone who rides a 30.9mm post and weighs 160lbs (and wishes for a frame built around 27.2mm. Funny that Specialized made that change for 2011). I am sure it will feel great under anyone heavier than I am.
    We agree. And that's why USE 30.9 x 27.2 reducer bushings were invented, and I'm using one on my Kish, along with a Moots 390mm Ti post.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onetrack
    Any mention on what Moots is charging for this new offering?
    It won't be cheap
    Happiness depends more on the inward disposition of mind than on outward circumstances. Benjamin Franklin

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    Wow- I'm suprised this flew under the radar and only had 6 replies. I sort of feel its going to be a price vs. the standard moots. I also don't feel the marketing on the moots page is very informative. Is it all straight gage? Usually butted tubes are in the first few lines of the description, same with the 6/4 (as the Vamoots RSL has in its seat stays) It pretty much seems to be the same as the Mooto but has a bent down tube so you don't gash your fork on it - which is a terrible design flaw. It has an inset hs - wich honestly looks out of place. It has a slight geo tweak. On the other hand, I know they will sell, but do you think its worth the extra 1+k$?

  9. #9
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    This is a great option (albeit expensive) for racers who don't want to go carbon. I'd love to ride one.

  10. #10
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    awesome bikes, best welds i have seen on a bike, i miss my rigormootis.
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  11. #11
    Monkey Wrench
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    $3500, which is ~$500 more than a Mooto-X.

    Inset/ZS 44mm headset which allows for a tapered steer tube if desired.
    Bent DT
    30.9 seat post with larger diameter ST and press-fit BB30

    All of these things make for a more rigid platform. It looks pretty nice... Some of the features would be nice to bring into the standard Mooto-X.
    Let me fix your bike @ ordinarybicycle.net in Louisville, CO

  12. #12
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    Just saw this at interbike. While it was in the stand I was able to make the bb flex with very little effort. At that price id want something stiffer. Great looking bike though.
    C-DALE FLASH 29 Carbon 2 (19.6 lbs)
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1-bar
    Just saw this at interbike. While it was in the stand I was able to make the bb flex with very little effort. At that price id want something stiffer. Great looking bike though.
    I'd want to ride it before I made a call on the stiffness. That's part of the magic of Ti for me. It stays stiff where it needs to be and flexes in all the right places.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1-bar
    Just saw this at interbike. While it was in the stand I was able to make the bb flex with very little effort. At that price id want something stiffer. Great looking bike though.
    In the stand Sure it wasn't the stand moving?
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    I have no reason to lie and no it wasn't the stand. I like moots products but the bb was flexy.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1-bar
    I have no reason to lie and no it wasn't the stand. I like moots products but the bb was flexy.
    So what was the rear tire clearance? From drevil's flickr page it looks pretty tight with a 2.1 Hutchinson (Python? looks like it). Granted, being aimed at racer types that might not be the biggest consideration, but people do race in the mud. I've gotten addicted to the fat rubber. Be-that-as-it-may, I'd take it in a heartbeat. Beautiful bike.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1-bar
    I have no reason to lie and no it wasn't the stand. I like moots products but the bb was flexy.

    I'm confused.....

    Quote Originally Posted by 1-bar
    Just saw this at interbike. While it was in the stand I was able to make the bb flex with very little effort. At that price id want something stiffer. Great looking bike though.
    Happiness depends more on the inward disposition of mind than on outward circumstances. Benjamin Franklin

  18. #18
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    Cool-blue Rhythm Punctuation...

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenLightGo
    I'm confused.....
    Properly punctuated, it would read:
    "...no, it wasn't the stand..."

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce9er
    Properly punctuated, it would read:
    "...no, it wasn't the stand..."
    That's what I get for using my phone to post. For you skeptics and doubters, the bike was on display at the Moots booth. The display is fixed to the wall and the bike is standing on the wheels in channels. While holding the crank arm at the 3 o clock position and the seat post I was able generate significant bb flex when I pressed downward. True, I did NOT ride it but I have done this test to several bikes including the new Salsa Spearfish. The Moots bike had a lot of visual flex. I'm sure the bike rides great but I wouldn't spend that kind of cheddar on a "race" frame with that much flex. However, feel free to disregard this post and buy the bike only to find out for yourself...
    C-DALE FLASH 29 Carbon 2 (19.6 lbs)
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnGray
    So what was the rear tire clearance? From drevil's flickr page it looks pretty tight with a 2.1 Hutchinson (Python? looks like it). Granted, being aimed at racer types that might not be the biggest consideration, but people do race in the mud. I've gotten addicted to the fat rubber.
    Yes please - be great to get an indication of clearance from someone who's seen the prototype in the flesh.

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    New question here. BB Flex...

    I currently own the Mooto-x Hardtail that I race. The bottom braket flex ...well, I pushed and pulled on my NON-RSL frame and it was really non-existent. I should have my NEW RSL in about 30 days (ordered last year). I saw the MootoX RSL and noticed increase stiffness on the prototype. I currently have the Vamoots RSL and it's amazing.

    I would consider the flexiness claim as bogus. There is NONE in my standard MootoX and with double butting on the new RSL it is stiffer.

    I'll post a picture of the new bike when I get it in a month.

    Cheers!

  22. #22
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    As nice as this bike looks, I just don't get the attraction of a Moots hardtail. For less than $3500 I could have any number of custom Ti builders make a frame that fits me perfectly and offer any of those options (tapered or oversized headtube, BB30, etc.). Go ahead and flame me, but that's my opinion!

    Now if I was looking for a Snoots, that's a different story!

    Mark

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    not gunna flame you...

    Just because someone else can make something doesn't make it worth spending the money. You could give me 200,000 dollars and I can make you a car but it doesn't mean it's going to be a ferrari

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    Smile not gunna flame you part 2

    Sorry I accidentally hit send before I was done. None of the guys could make you a bike is the same quality as a Moots RSL. It doesn't mean it'll be a bad bike but, it's the difference between a chevy and a ferrari. A better example is the difference between a ferrari kit car and an actual ferrari.

    Cheers!

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    You completely missed BikeNy's point. To put it clearly, there are MANY established Ti frame builders with a stellar reputation that will build you a full custom frame for the price of a stock Moots. Same goes with their components like seat posts for example. $300 for a Moots or $235 for an Ericksen?

    I will come right out and say it, but Moots asking price for a straight gauge tubed production fame has become outrageous. I will take a custom IndyFab for less $$ thank you very much.



    Quote Originally Posted by Laurelhurst1
    Just because someone else can make something doesn't make it worth spending the money. You could give me 200,000 dollars and I can make you a car but it doesn't mean it's going to be a ferrari

  26. #26
    Kam
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    edit.....duh....nevermind
    "forget kings...forget hadleys......they all have crap engagement. just run your bike fixed gear." - FoShizzle

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdrunk
    You completely missed BikeNy's point. To put it clearly, there are MANY established Ti frame builders with a stellar reputation that will build you a full custom frame for the price of a stock Moots. Same goes with their components like seat posts for example. $300 for a Moots or $235 for an Ericksen?

    I will come right out and say it, but Moots asking price for a straight gauge tubed production fame has become outrageous. I will take a custom IndyFab for less $$ thank you very much.
    Absolutely right. Golden!

    Extolling Moots is foolish. They make decent frames and components, but nothing out of the ordinary. Luckily for them there are enough suckers that buy into their hype.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Climber999
    Absolutely right. Golden!

    Extolling Moots is foolish. They make decent frames and components, but nothing out of the ordinary. Luckily for them there are enough suckers that buy into their hype.
    Well hell...now I have been clearly identified. Guess I am a sucker a few times over, but hey, I really like the "decent" frames and love a YBB 29er

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gearguywb
    Well hell...now I have been clearly identified. Guess I am a sucker a few times over, but hey, I really like the "decent" frames and love a YBB 29er


    I wouldn't worry about it too much, Moots makes a great bike and I would take one anyday over a Lynskey. The nice thing about Moots is they are a very established company and you know (at least you can be reasonably sure) they will be around in a few years if you ever have problems with their product. Sure they are 10-20% more expensive than other bikes but that takes nothing away from the quality of the bike. If you went with an Ericksen or Potts or Blacksheep and had a failure in five years there is a good chance that they may not be building anymore. If you have a Moots you just call them up and talk to a rep, there is definitely something to be said for that and in 5 years it may justify the extra couple of hundred dollars over one of the other bikes. Look Matt Chester, he made a great product that everyone loved but quite a few people got screwed when he stopped building and more than one deposit was lost. Now I am not saying that Ericksen, Potts, Quiring or Blacksheep would do that too you, they all have excellent reputations but it is a chance that you would have to take. So I definitely feel that there is a place for a company like Moots in this sport. With that being said,I am eagerly awaiting my Potts to get build, not because I think it is a better bike than Moots, but because that is what I want.

  30. #30
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    ... and if we just ...

    "I am eagerly awaiting my Potts"

    Nice.....

    What's it gonna be?
    Zip ties? Not on my bike!

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    650B rims or wheel set. 80's vintage 32 or 36 x 135mm

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    Moots MootoX RSL... RE: Big Drunk

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdrunk
    You completely missed BikeNy's point. To put it clearly, there are MANY established Ti frame builders with a stellar reputation that will build you a full custom frame for the price of a stock Moots. Same goes with their components like seat posts for example. $300 for a Moots or $235 for an Ericksen?

    I will come right out and say it, but Moots asking price for a straight gauge tubed production fame has become outrageous. I will take a custom IndyFab for less $$ thank you very much.
    First of all:

    Kent Ericksen makes great bikes!
    29er Single speed with sliding dropouts
    $3475.00

    IndyFab makes great bikes!
    29er Frame Price
    MSRP $3,410


    But, the New Mooto-X RSL is NOT a straight gauged tubed production frame. IF you really knew what you were talking about you'd know that.

    RSL Frame FACTS.

    1. They source their tubing here in Washington State from the same manufacturer of Ti Tubing for Boeing Aircraft and the Boeing Military Aircraft group here in Seattle.

    2. Moots 3/2.5 is "Internally" Cold worked and stress relieved aircraft tubing.

    3. It is a solid tube (which is more costly) and NOT rolled into a tube like most Ti Tubing.

    4. The Seat tube is "DOUBLE BUTTED". Yes NOT straight gauge like ALL other frames.

    5. Once the tubing is cut (seat tube), it is shipped to England to Reynolds where they "Internally" double butt the tube and ship it BACK to Colorado (soon to be done internally with their new machine tool which other Manufacturers Don't have).

    Lastly, there is the issue of Retained Value. I can buy a Kent Erikson or Indy Fab frame used on eBay for 30% LESS than a Moots Frame (FACT).

    All these bikes are nice but, at $3500.00 for a Double Butted, super light, Aircraft Grade Titanium Frame....ALL for nearly the same price as the other frames....It's a NO BRAINER!

    Oh, and Moots gives you a Life Time Warranty!!!

    So, if you want a seatpost for 70.00 less...buy an Eriksen. IMO, the Moots looks better.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by gearguywb
    Well hell...now I have been clearly identified. Guess I am a sucker a few times over, but hey, I really like the "decent" frames and love a YBB 29er
    +1
    I guess I'm in the same boat as the Gearguy. I don't feel bad though because they build what I consider to be one of the best frames available today anywhere.. I'm glad my 29er YBB is sitting in my garage ready to ride this weekend. Even though is "stock" sizing, it fits me like a custom.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurelhurst1
    First of all:

    Kent Ericksen makes great bikes!
    29er Single speed with sliding dropouts
    $3475.00

    IndyFab makes great bikes!
    29er Frame Price
    MSRP $3,410


    But, the New Mooto-X RSL is NOT a straight gauged tubed production frame. IF you really knew what you were talking about you'd know that.

    RSL Frame FACTS.

    1. They source their tubing here in Washington State from the same manufacturer of Ti Tubing for Boeing Aircraft and the Boeing Military Aircraft group here in Seattle.

    2. Moots 3/2.5 is "Internally" Cold worked and stress relieved aircraft tubing.

    3. It is a solid tube (which is more costly) and NOT rolled into a tube like most Ti Tubing.

    4. The Seat tube is "DOUBLE BUTTED". Yes NOT straight gauge like ALL other frames.

    5. Once the tubing is cut (seat tube), it is shipped to England to Reynolds where they "Internally" double butt the tube and ship it BACK to Colorado (soon to be done internally with their new machine tool which other Manufacturers Don't have).

    Lastly, there is the issue of Retained Value. I can buy a Kent Erikson or Indy Fab frame used on eBay for 30% LESS than a Moots Frame (FACT).

    All these bikes are nice but, at $3500.00 for a Double Butted, super light, Aircraft Grade Titanium Frame....ALL for nearly the same price as the other frames....It's a NO BRAINER!

    Oh, and Moots gives you a Life Time Warranty!!!

    So, if you want a seatpost for 70.00 less...buy an Eriksen. IMO, the Moots looks better.

    WOW - Nice write up.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurelhurst1
    First of all:

    Kent Ericksen makes great bikes!
    29er Single speed with sliding dropouts
    $3475.00

    IndyFab makes great bikes!
    29er Frame Price
    MSRP $3,410


    But, the New Mooto-X RSL is NOT a straight gauged tubed production frame. IF you really knew what you were talking about you'd know that.

    RSL Frame FACTS.

    1. They source their tubing here in Washington State from the same manufacturer of Ti Tubing for Boeing Aircraft and the Boeing Military Aircraft group here in Seattle.

    2. Moots 3/2.5 is "Internally" Cold worked and stress relieved aircraft tubing.

    3. It is a solid tube (which is more costly) and NOT rolled into a tube like most Ti Tubing.

    4. The Seat tube is "DOUBLE BUTTED". Yes NOT straight gauge like ALL other frames.

    5. Once the tubing is cut (seat tube), it is shipped to England to Reynolds where they "Internally" double butt the tube and ship it BACK to Colorado (soon to be done internally with their new machine tool which other Manufacturers Don't have).

    Lastly, there is the issue of Retained Value. I can buy a Kent Erikson or Indy Fab frame used on eBay for 30% LESS than a Moots Frame (FACT).

    All these bikes are nice but, at $3500.00 for a Double Butted, super light, Aircraft Grade Titanium Frame....ALL for nearly the same price as the other frames....It's a NO BRAINER!

    Oh, and Moots gives you a Life Time Warranty!!!

    So, if you want a seatpost for 70.00 less...buy an Eriksen. IMO, the Moots looks better.
    Nice looking frame. Correct me if I read this wrong, but the only butted tube is the seattube?

    While I like moots frames, I don't believe they're magical unicorns. They command a higher price mostly because of the name. Doesn't necessarily mean they're better than any of the other high end Ti builders. I do appreciate that you understand many of the details though, something tells me most moots owners don't.

    I'd take the eriksen post over the moots. In terms of looks and build they are almost identical. Moots' component prices are nuts for something that isn't any higher quality. Kent Eriksen founded moots, he likely knows all their tricks and more.

    That said I'm all for more good Ti frame designs. It's about time some builders start evolving Ti frame design, seems as though it's been fairly stagnant and buiders have stuck with traditional designs the past 20 years. Much prefer Ti to all the plastic frames showing up these days!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiflow_21
    Much prefer Ti to all the plastic frames showing up these days!

    Ain't that the truth




    As far as the Potts goes it should be your typical 29 hardtail with a Type 2 built around a 100mm fork. I would love to ride strictly rigid but here in AZ I don't really want my arms to fall off.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurelhurst1
    First of all:

    Kent Ericksen makes great bikes!
    29er Single speed with sliding dropouts
    $3475.00

    IndyFab makes great bikes!
    29er Frame Price
    MSRP $3,410


    But, the New Mooto-X RSL is NOT a straight gauged tubed production frame. IF you really knew what you were talking about you'd know that.

    RSL Frame FACTS.

    1. They source their tubing here in Washington State from the same manufacturer of Ti Tubing for Boeing Aircraft and the Boeing Military Aircraft group here in Seattle.

    2. Moots 3/2.5 is "Internally" Cold worked and stress relieved aircraft tubing.

    3. It is a solid tube (which is more costly) and NOT rolled into a tube like most Ti Tubing.

    4. The Seat tube is "DOUBLE BUTTED". Yes NOT straight gauge like ALL other frames.

    5. Once the tubing is cut (seat tube), it is shipped to England to Reynolds where they "Internally" double butt the tube and ship it BACK to Colorado (soon to be done internally with their new machine tool which other Manufacturers Don't have).

    Lastly, there is the issue of Retained Value. I can buy a Kent Erikson or Indy Fab frame used on eBay for 30% LESS than a Moots Frame (FACT).

    All these bikes are nice but, at $3500.00 for a Double Butted, super light, Aircraft Grade Titanium Frame....ALL for nearly the same price as the other frames....It's a NO BRAINER!

    Oh, and Moots gives you a Life Time Warranty!!!

    So, if you want a seatpost for 70.00 less...buy an Eriksen. IMO, the Moots looks better.
    You are correct about the IF price, that surprised me a little. But the price of a Kent Erikson 29er frame is listed as $3050. You took the price for a frame with sliding dropouts, comparing oranges to apples. But what you fail to see is both of these frames are designed specifically for YOU at that price. If you wanted something different on the Moots, the price goes up from there.

    And I don't consider a frame with one butted tube as a 'butted frame', sorry. Oh, and your point number three is just bogus. No titanium frame used rolled tubing, not even an el cheapo Motobecane.

    Here is what I bought for $500 less than the above Moots:
    Attached Images Attached Images

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurelhurst1
    Sorry I accidentally hit send before I was done. None of the guys could make you a bike is the same quality as a Moots RSL. It doesn't mean it'll be a bad bike but, it's the difference between a chevy and a ferrari. A better example is the difference between a ferrari kit car and an actual ferrari.

    Cheers!
    I'm sorry to tell you this, but there are plenty of builders that will make you bike of equal or greater quality than the Moots, will be custom made for the rider, and cost less. I'm trying to come up with a good car comparison, but can't right now. Maybe it's like buying a Porsche with better performance for less money than the Ferrari.

    Mark

  38. #38
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    Smile To Like Moots or Not.....

    On the other Ti manufacturers...

    They don't use the same materials and they don't source from the same suppliers that Moots does (FACT).

    You can extol about all the great work at Potts and Eriksen but, I've been to Steam Boat Springs and to the Moots facility. Once you meet them you'll have a different opinion.

    Buy a Potts, Eriksen, IndyFab or what ever you want. The prices are nearly IDENTICAL (to say they are not shows you haven't checked their prices lately).

    To put down Moots over other Ti Manufactures is dumb. Potts, Eriksen and I.F. are great guys who make great bikes and I have nothing negative to say about their workmanship. I just prefer Moots over them. I think Moots technology in Ti manufacturing is REALLY good.

    But, you have a problem with one of those bikes 10 years from now (and you should be able to own ANY Ti bike for 10+ years) who you gonna call?????

    Moots is celebrating their 30th Year Anniversary as a bike manufacturer THIS YEAR!

    Steve Potts and Ken Eriksen will be in their 80's in 30 years and I wish them the best (I hope they make it to their 100's) but, I'm too young to rely on their warranty 30 years from now.

    I plan to be riding my Moots for another 30 years. I guess I drink the Moots Kool-Aid that's why I have 8 Moots Bikes (3 Cross, 1 Road, 4 Mountain). I wouldn't buy any other bike.

    Plus, I raced my Moots Psychlo-X in the Masters World Championships in Mol Belgium Jan. 2010 and EVERYONE treated that bike like it was their dream bike. After the race finished, I let probably 8-10 people ride it around the course for nearly 2 hours before I could leave and get back to my hotel!

    So, keep loving Ti bikes and enjoying them. I do!

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny
    You are correct about the IF price, that surprised me a little. But the price of a Kent Erikson 29er frame is listed as $3050. You took the price for a frame with sliding dropouts, comparing oranges to apples. But what you fail to see is both of these frames are designed specifically for YOU at that price. If you wanted something different on the Moots, the price goes up from there.

    And I don't consider a frame with one butted tube as a 'butted frame', sorry. Oh, and your point number three is just bogus. No titanium frame used rolled tubing, not even an el cheapo Motobecane.

    Here is what I bought for $500 less than the above Moots:
    Plenty of Ti tubing manufacturers sell tubing that is rolled. Eriksen doesn't build with Aircraft Titanium tubing or they would state that.

    Sorry, I posted the price I found on Google and you are right...you can get a basic straight gauge tube ti bike from Eriksen for $3050.00 and you can get a Moots Mooto X basic frame for LESS $2949.95 from Cambriabike.com. That is a apple to apple comparison.

    100027159 17" RIGOR 29er HARD TAIL $2949.95 Usually 2~5 Business Days

    You don't have to like Moots (I'm fine with that) but, to compare the Mooto-X RSL (which is what this tread is about) with a basic Kent Eriksen frame is Lunacy. Just my opinion.

  40. #40
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    Black Sheep bike....

    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny
    You are correct about the IF price, that surprised me a little. But the price of a Kent Erikson 29er frame is listed as $3050. You took the price for a frame with sliding dropouts, comparing oranges to apples. But what you fail to see is both of these frames are designed specifically for YOU at that price. If you wanted something different on the Moots, the price goes up from there.

    And I don't consider a frame with one butted tube as a 'butted frame', sorry. Oh, and your point number three is just bogus. No titanium frame used rolled tubing, not even an el cheapo Motobecane.

    Here is what I bought for $500 less than the above Moots:

    By the way, that is the uglies frame I've seen in a while. You paid 3000.00 for that?????

    No wonder you're upset!

  41. #41
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    Moots Mooto-X RSL other fact...

    Diffrent from the other frame manufacturers, the NEW RSL has formed 6/4 titanium seat stays....ummm ya.

  42. #42
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    Laurelhurst1, your responses reek of an attempt to reduce buyers remorse. Sorry to break it to you but there are other just as experienced frame builders that build as nice of frames as moots or even better depending on your viewpoint. Eriksen, Potts, Lynskey.. the list could go on, all make amazing frames. Moots is not the end-all be-all, as much as you'd like to believe it. It is all subjective and in the end titanium tubes welded together with skill.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurelhurst1
    On the other Ti manufacturers...
    Buy a Potts, Eriksen, IndyFab or what ever you want. The prices are nearly IDENTICAL (to say they are not shows you haven't checked their prices lately).
    You keeping belaboring us with that argument, insisting stubbornly to ignore both Potts, Eriksen and IF are tailored to your measures, whereas the Moots is a off-the-shelf frame.

    Although I personally don't think there is anything special about Moots (compared to boutique Ti manufactures, of course), I will concede you have a point when it comes to long terms warranty.

    Other than that it's enjoyable to read your comments.
    Last edited by Climber999; 01-28-2011 at 03:09 PM.

  44. #44
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    Buyers Remorse? For who?

    Quote Originally Posted by tiflow_21
    Laurelhurst1, your responses reek of an attempt to reduce buyers remorse. Sorry to break it to you but there are other just as experienced frame builders that build as nice of frames as moots or even better depending on your viewpoint. Eriksen, Potts, Lynskey.. the list could go on, all make amazing frames. Moots is not the end-all be-all, as much as you'd like to believe it. It is all subjective and in the end titanium tubes welded together with skill.
    Financially, I can buy as many Moots as I want. So, who's remorse are you referring to?

    Of course there are other VERY skilled frame builders (excluding the Lynskey frames coming out on the market now).

    I do not think that Moots is the End-All Be-All manufacturer. But, I believe it's the best for ME. That's it.

    The prices are nearly identical but the materials are not.

    The Titanium tubing for Moots is manufactured here in my home state of Washington. That is not the case for all the other Ti Tubing Manufacturers. I spoke the director of sales for that manufacturer today just to get his perspective on this topic since it's grown on this chat board.

    He tells me that Moots (different from other bike manufacturers they sell to) does Technical Engineering on how to modify the tubing during the manufacting process to change flex of the tube and the stiffness of the tube. That is NOT done by other producers who just go out and source Ti Tubing. After speaking with the Ti Tubing Manufacturer I'm even more impressed with Moots.

    (I am actually going to drive to their plant to see if I can get my hands on some 6/4 Ti so I can send it to Moots to produce a frame for me since 6/4 is rarely available.)


    Moots spends the time changing the tubing charicteristic's before it even becomes a tube.

    So, it's silly to just say it's all about the Welding because it's NOT.

    You can like any Ti Manufacturer you want but, you should be informed about what happens before that manufacturer even "Gets" the tubing.

    Word!

  45. #45
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    Custom geometry is great....if needed. My MootoX and Pivot are the only bikes that I have that are not custom geometry. Maybe I don't need it on a mountain bike, heck, what do I know.

    Eriksen, Potts, and others certainly build some fine bikes, I take nothing from them. But arguing over a couple of hundred bucks (or less) on a 3k frame and 6k bike is pretty dumb. Reminds me of a guy I met on the trail one day.....riding a MootoX (non YBB), Rohloff, I9, blah blah blah. Outstanding build. I asked him why he did not go with the YBB (thought he would say something like "I prefer a hardtail") but no, he said "I was on a budget for the build". Funny.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurelhurst1
    Financially, I can buy as many Moots as I want. So, who's remorse are you referring to?
    You're trying to prove to us (and seemingly to yourself) that you have the best possible frame(s) money can buy, which is completely subjective. I don't care how rich you are or how much you want to flaunt it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurelhurst1
    Of course there are other VERY skilled frame builders (excluding the Lynskey frames coming out on the market now).
    Please expand on the Lynskey comment. I have a feeling you have no experience with them personally. Lynskey has as much or more experience than moots, and still keep their frame building and tooling in the family, unlike moots. They actually shape tubes instead of using the same old boring round tubing that you've grown to love so much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurelhurst1
    The prices are nearly identical but the materials are not.
    False. Moots frames cost as much or more for an off the shelf frame when compared to custom frames built by other experienced builders. You're basing your argument about materials on information you received from a salesperson. Of course they're going to tell you they make/use the best tubing. Wouldn't they be stupid to tell you otherwise? Get some unbiased information before believing the hype.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurelhurst1
    The Titanium tubing for Moots is manufactured here in my home state of Washington. That is not the case for all the other Ti Tubing Manufacturers. I spoke the director of sales for that manufacturer today just to get his perspective on this topic since it's grown on this chat board.

    He tells me that Moots (different from other bike manufacturers they sell to) does Technical Engineering on how to modify the tubing during the manufacting process to change flex of the tube and the stiffness of the tube. That is NOT done by other producers who just go out and source Ti Tubing. After speaking with the Ti Tubing Manufacturer I'm even more impressed with Moots.

    Most high end builders use aerospace grade titanium, whether it's made in washington or not is a non-issue. You spoke with the company's DIRECTOR OF SALES, am I the only one that knows you don't get technical information/advice from a salesperson??? They'll sell a deaf man a stereo if it'll help their numbers. Other builders do more work in house than moots when it comes to tubing, which could be a good thing in terms of experience and consistency.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by gearguywb
    Reminds me of a guy I met on the trail one day.....riding a MootoX (non YBB), Rohloff, I9, blah blah blah. Outstanding build. I asked him why he did not go with the YBB (thought he would say something like "I prefer a hardtail") but no, he said "I was on a budget for the build". Funny.


    Thats pretty funny.

    I think the quality of a Moots is up there with any of the boutique builders, you can tell by their attention to detail in the welds, alignment and innovation. To say that one is better than the other is simply nonsense. I don't know how much Moots puts into fine tuning their tubing but I am sure it is more than many custom builders simply because they have the resources to have custom drawn and worked tubing. Does that actually lead to a better riding bike, who the hell knows, but I am sure not going to dismiss it. The custom aspect of other frames is great, if you need it or want something that isn't offered by a non-custom shop. I don't need custom for fit, I fit great on most 17 inch bikes, I am very average so I am sure that I could fit great on a Moots. I do know that you see a lot more Moots on the trails than you see other bikes and that is one reason I didn't want one. I am getting a Potts because I have wanted one for 20 years after talking to him in 1994 and I can finally afford one. Perhaps if I had talked to Kent Eriksen back then I would be on his wait list instead.

    I am not sure why this thread has turned into a Moots bash. Yes they are expensive but so are many other bikes. If you don't like how expensive they are don't buy one.

    Now, one thing I don't understand is why their stems and posts are so expensive. 300 bucks for a post is ridiculous (luckily I got one years ago when I thought 150 was crazy) and 500 for a stem is even worse. But then again you could spend the same on carbon and have to replace it after a good crash or two.

  48. #48
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    Just a correction to the comments about Moots not doing custom work.
    I recently had a MootoX built. Custom top tube length, standover, and tube diameter to my weight and riding style. It took 12 weeks and was delivered under 3k.

    Line up the top builders frames with the same finish and no stickers. The haters wouldn't have a clue who built what. I looked at many builders before deciding on Moots and they all did great work. When I made my decision it had a lot to do with who my bike shop represented.

  49. #49
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    Sounds like I struck a nerve with a homer. I don't feel like wasting time on rebutting your comments, but maybe I will for a few. As I see others have already mentioned, the two bikes I mentioned are custom. Last time I checked, the custom upcharge from Moots is $550, I could be VERY wrong on this as I got this number from the Speedgoat website 2 years ago. Stock frame sizes usually fit me good, but custom frames fit great! If I am dropping $3+ bills for a new frame it better fit great. Unfortunately for me, Moots stock sizes don't fit me for ***** or I would be riding one because they can be found for a song on eBay at times. Before I bought a Silk Ti (custom, made for me, just the way I want it) I was tempted by the plentiful selection of used YBB's in the $1,700-$1,800 range, but could not deal with the sizing. The 24.2" top tube on the Large is a non starter for me. Moving up the the XL gets me the top tube I want but has a stand over I can't deal with as it is not friendly to certain areas I care greatly about.

    Anybody that comes on MTBR and says Moots suck is a dewey, as Moots has more than proven it makes a great frame.

    One near final thought: Companies like Moots and Indy Fab build great bikes and have for a long time. Both companies appear to have production set up in a way that many different people have a hand in building the final product. Over time (since they have been building for a looong time) , I am sure there has been plenty of turnover, with some welders, cutters, finishers, etc being better than others but the end product always being solid. Nothing good or bad here just something to think about with what I am about say.

    With my Silk Ti, I know that the guy that performed all the fabrication from start to finish has been doing it at the highest level for a very, very long time. With the Silk Ti, I was not buying a brand name per se, I was paying for the craftmanship of a certain builder with a stellar track record. His name - Steve Potts. (also big props to designer John C). My Moots stem and seat post finish off the Silk nicely though.

    I have already did what I said I didn't want to do by spending too time with my response so I will leave with one last comment.

    When spending this much coin on a new frame, I look at ANY and ALL options and weigh the factors which go into my decision. The last two frames I bought Moots didn't make it into the top 10. Does that mean Moots are no good? No it does not. Not at all. I like them a lot. There are just many better options for me.

    My beer is empty so I need to go now.



    Quote Originally Posted by Laurelhurst1
    First of all:

    Kent Ericksen makes great bikes!
    29er Single speed with sliding dropouts
    $3475.00

    IndyFab makes great bikes!
    29er Frame Price
    MSRP $3,410


    But, the New Mooto-X RSL is NOT a straight gauged tubed production frame. IF you really knew what you were talking about you'd know that.

    RSL Frame FACTS.

    1. They source their tubing here in Washington State from the same manufacturer of Ti Tubing for Boeing Aircraft and the Boeing Military Aircraft group here in Seattle.

    2. Moots 3/2.5 is "Internally" Cold worked and stress relieved aircraft tubing.

    3. It is a solid tube (which is more costly) and NOT rolled into a tube like most Ti Tubing.

    4. The Seat tube is "DOUBLE BUTTED". Yes NOT straight gauge like ALL other frames.

    5. Once the tubing is cut (seat tube), it is shipped to England to Reynolds where they "Internally" double butt the tube and ship it BACK to Colorado (soon to be done internally with their new machine tool which other Manufacturers Don't have).

    Lastly, there is the issue of Retained Value. I can buy a Kent Erikson or Indy Fab frame used on eBay for 30% LESS than a Moots Frame (FACT).

    All these bikes are nice but, at $3500.00 for a Double Butted, super light, Aircraft Grade Titanium Frame....ALL for nearly the same price as the other frames....It's a NO BRAINER!

    Oh, and Moots gives you a Life Time Warranty!!!

    So, if you want a seatpost for 70.00 less...buy an Eriksen. IMO, the Moots looks better.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurelhurst1
    By the way, that is the uglies frame I've seen in a while. You paid 3000.00 for that?????

    No wonder you're upset!

    What a ******bag comment.

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