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  1. #1
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    Looking for an XC 29er: RKT 9 RDO?

    I posted this on the Niner forum but didnít get much of a response, so Iím trying it here in the 29er forum:

    I started out on 29er wheels on hard tails. I got a little older and moved to a Jet 9 RDO that I bought in 2012. It has a 71.5 head tube angle, 100mm front and rear suspension, spec'd out with Easton carbon wheels and XX1, it is barely 23 lbs and has been my favorite ride. But it is getting kind of dated, I've noticed how much flex is in that rear 135mm QR, and I'm interested in getting something new that is stiffer.

    I've read every review about the RKT 9 RDO, even every thread I could find here on MTBR. But I could use some personalized advice for my situation from the experts here.

    I'm 6 foot 3, 180 pound XC guy living in Provo, Utah. I like to keep my wheels on the wheels on the ground, climb, and wear spandex. I don't race a lot of races, but I like to put one big one on the calendar like the PCP2P (75 miles of single track, 13,000 feet of climbing) to get me motivated. My training rides consist of 1.5 hour sessions where I try and get as much climbing in as I can, usually around 2,000 feet, sometimes more. Utah is mountains, all of my rides are up, up, up, up, up, down. There isn't much in between or flat stuff in the Uinta mountains where I ride. Once in a rare while I will go down to St. George or Moab. This summer I might do the High Cascade 100 race in Bend, Oregon.

    I love to climb, and the climbs in Utah are steep. Sometimes the trails suck and are really loose. I think if I bought one of those trendy slacked out bikes that are more ďtrailĒ than XC, like the current Jet 9 RDO, I would be walking my bike up some of the steep local climbs. I haven't demo'd the new Jet 9, but I think the slack geo would put the weight too far back on the climbs. I would be leaning forward to compensate, and then my rear wheel would spin out on the loose stuff. I havenít demoíd any of those bikes though, so I canít say for sure, but there just ainít no free lunch.

    With the RKT 9 RDO, I am a bit nervous to reduce my rear suspension from 100mm to 90mm. Most of the reviews say that the new geometry and solid feeling of the boost axles help in this department, and you don't miss that 10mm at all. Maybe so.

    I'm also a bit nervous to do a 120mm fork up front. I've always ridden 100mm front forks, so moving up to 120mm would be a new step, and I wonder how it will climb compared to the 100. Of course it will descend a lot better than the 100mm, both with the added travel and slightly slacker head tube angle than what I have now. It does seem a bit weird to do 90mm and 120mm up front, like someone else said on Niner forum, a reverse mullet (party up front, business in the back). But maybe the overall geometry will do everything that I need it to, and I have a sneaking hunch that this bike will be totally awesome. I will do a frame set and custom build, but all the factory builds are spec'ing 120mm and it seems like that is the trend, but Iím not sure if itís right for me.

    The lightweight racing forks out there like the Fox 32 SC and the Sid World Cup are only 100mm of travel. So if I go 120mm Iím adding a half pound right there. For that reason, Iím thinking of going 100mm and running a more forgiving 2.35 inch tire. Combined with Stanís Valor Pro wheels that are supposed to have some absorbing qualities, the boost technology should make it a solid feeling descender. Maybe Iíll go with a slightly wider bar to give a bit more confidence, and a shorter stem.

    I also really like the Scott Spark, the 900 SL HMX is really light and a proven platform. The twin lock is interesting but I donít think it is necessary to lock out the fork as much as the shock. Unfortunately the high end Spark is twice the cost as a Niner RKT frame, which at $3,000 isnít cheap either. Even the lower priced versions of the Spark are super pricey.

    I also looked at the Pivot Mach 429 SL. Seems like a nice bike but .8 pound heavier than the Niner (4.5 pounds on the Niner, 5.3 on the Pivot). The Giant Anthem Advanced Pro 29 also looks good, but I've never ridden a Giant and for some reason it doesn't excite me, but maybe it should.

    Any thoughts for my situation would be much appreciated. Here is a taste of the race that is on my calendar, with nearly 13,000 feet of climbing and all single track, it also features several 2,000 foot descents.

    Looking for an XC 29er: RKT 9 RDO?-3c850660-95bd-404b-9166-10cba042126b.jpg

  2. #2
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    Maybe captain obvious here, but are you aware that Niner has filed for chapter 11?
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  3. #3
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    Yes I am, I am following it closely, the reorganization looks like they will have a new buyer for the company soon and in the meantime they are making and selling bikes and honoring warranties. Thanks for the heads up, there is a thread on this in the Niner forum, Iíd like to stick to just bikes here...

  4. #4
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    It looks like with one main race on your schedule you ride mainly for fun. So it's not critical which bike you get for the race. You could even rent one for that event.
    And demo different bikes for your home trails.
    Staying towards the XC area a Trek Top Fuel with a SID WC because of the Charger damper and the ability to run wider front tires when you want instead of the width limited Fox should be on your list.
    I don't think a Ripley LS XL would fit you or it would be a choice.

  5. #5
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    IMHO, seeing as frame prices are what they are I'd want to try one before I ever put down the money for it.

    You can get the RKT for $2200-ish depending on exchange rates here:
    https://r2-bike.com/NINER-Mountainbi...T-9-RDO-Carbon

    Quote Originally Posted by The Boz View Post

    The lightweight racing forks out there like the Fox 32 SC and the Sid World Cup are only 100mm of travel. So if I go 120mm Iím adding a half pound right there. For that reason, Iím thinking of going 100mm and running a more forgiving 2.35 inch tire. Combined with Stanís Valor Pro wheels that are supposed to have some absorbing qualities, the boost technology should make it a solid feeling descender. Maybe Iíll go with a slightly wider bar to give a bit more confidence, and a shorter stem.
    From an endurance point of view, wouldn't it be better to have less rotational weight if given the choice between having the grams in the fork or the tire?

  6. #6
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    Eb1888, very good points. I do mainly race for fun but itís also fun for me to try and do my best on that race, I have no illusions of glory but I like to set a personal time goal that motivates me to train. The other reason why I showed that race elevation profile is because my training rides are a microcosm of that longer race: lots of climbing, even steeper climbs actually, and what goes up must come down. Not much flat ground in these parts.


    Good point on the tire widths, which are limited by the Fox SC. Iíd probably only want to run a 2.35Ē Racing Ralph or a 2.35Ē Maxxis Ikon. Fox says they only go up to 2.3Ē, but Iíve read reviews by guys running 2.4Ē tires without any issues, so I think Iíd be okay. Iíll be buying a frameset either way, so the SID would work too, and probably have more tire clearance.

    Vegard, your point about rotational weight is a good one, but Iíve been reading that lots of racers even are going to slightly wider tires for traction. 2.35Ē might be the right balance, Iíve been riding 2.25Ē Racing Ralphs for a little while now and like the traction, a little wider could be interesting.

  7. #7
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    A 120mm fork is still an interesting option for me and not out of the question. And Iíve been reading about the Giant Anthrm Advanced Pro 29, seems like a cool bike too, and a more modern head tube angle at 69 degrees, versus the steep 71 of the Niner, the Giant would probably be a more confident descender.

  8. #8
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    Getting into it a bit more now that you're building, tire width goes hand in hand with rim width which also includes tread profile roundness. knob size and height. Bontrager Team XR tires were more recently designed than other 2.3-2.4 tires. They have a more rounded profile and larger volume. So you can use a wider rim and lower psi for a bigger footprint out of a narrower lower small knob faster rolling tire. Like the XR2 2.35 Team and XR1 2.2 Team. $55.
    You can build Chinese carbon rims with Sapim Laser spokes and DT 350 hubs. Or save grams with 240s.

  9. #9
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    Iím looking at the Stand Valor Pro wheels, light and strong enough, but not super wide at 21.6mm.

    It turns out the Giant Advanced Pro 29 isnít available as a frame set, so Iím probably not interested. The choices are narrowing...

  10. #10
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    Imo you give up much going below 30mm inner. Sidewall foldover at 21mm. Absent at 30mm. Wider rims give you more climbing traction at lower psi. And more cornering traction from the larger footprint. You probably need to experience the handling difference to get onboard. Once you do - no looking back..

  11. #11
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    Hmm, I'll have to read up on this. My current wheels, Easton EC90s, are 19mm internal width, too narrow and I need to get new ones anyway for the boost spacing. The Stans Valor Pro are wider at 21mm internal, 26mm external. Enve M525's are 25mm internal, 33mm external, but those break the bank. Niner makes a set of carbon hoops that are 24mm internal, 30mm external, and reasonably priced, but weigh more than the Stans. Industry Nine 235s are 23.5 inner, 27mm outer. Those are the typical XC wheel widths, obviously you can go wider, but those wheels with a 30mm internal width are all advertising a trail or all-mountain use, and are much heavier. But maybe the Stans Valor Pros I was looking at are a bit too narrow. They say they go up to a 2.3" tire, and I was thinking I could get away with 2.35" Racing Ralphs or Maxxis Ikons...

  12. #12
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    You begin to figure tradeoff. Depending on the terrain is more traction for more cornering control and cornering speed offset the loss over smooth straight terrain from the increase in weight? Nobody rides a 14lb. road bike on trails like those that match your elevation profile.

    Consider building your wheelset. It's fun.
    Wheels
    Chinese carbon from CarbonFan and others.
    Sapim Lasers from Dans Comp.
    You can have 2 sets at about $650/per.

  13. #13
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    I'm also in Utah, and do Point to Point every year. The last three years I have ridden it on my Niner Jet 9 RDO. When I originally built it up, I did so with a 100mm Fox. I switched it to a 120mm and have never looked back. It is a much more capable, much funner bike. It didn't feel like I gave anything up. Climbed great, descended better. I can't speak to how an RKT would do, but regardless of what you look at, a 120mm fork would probably be the way to go.
    I'm currently running a Fox SC with a set of 25mm internal wheels, and a 2.4 Ardent up front with no clearance issues. It's a great fork considering it's travel. I'm running it on a Pivot Les hardtail.
    I have a few XC friends that have gone with overseas carbon wheels in wide widths; around 30mm. One on a Trek Top Fuel, and it transformed his riding. He wasn't a great bike handler, and the wide wheel really improved his confidence.
    Just a few personal experiences, YMMV.

  14. #14
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    Blurred boy, that is a great advice. I love my 2012 Jet 9 RDO, and really wish Niner made a more modern version of it with updated geometry and boost spacing for stiffness. My old Jet 9 is pretty steep on the head tube angle and the chain stays are lengthy, making switchbacks a challenge. But the new Jet 9 is much more Trail than XC, with 120mm of travel in the back and 130mm or 140mm up front. Itís a different animal, so Iím either happy with the RKT 9 or a different brand...

    Your endorsement of 120mm up front is convincing. There must be a reason all the factory builds of the Niner RKT 9 are coming with 120mm. When I think of the PCP2P and descending Johns, a switchback filled down hill trail full of Aspen roots and ledges, 120mm up front starts to sound really nice. Or chugging down the never-ending CMG and then along the Mid-Mountain Trail and down goldfinger, which are basically beds of shale rock, I start to think that more travel is better... Which all leads me to wonder if maybe I should take another look at a 100mm travel bike like the Pivot Mach 429sl, but it is .7 lbs heavier than the RKT 9, lacks a rear shock remote lockout, and seems to be really cramped for water bottle space.

  15. #15
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    I think you should look at the Mach 429SL more closely. If the bike needs a shock lock out, the suspension/shock combo isn't doing it's job.

    If you flip the shock it gives you more room. it's what I did on my Ripley.
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  16. #16
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    If the Pivot wasnít substantially heavier, it would be an easier decision. The shock lock isnít a must, but itís nice to have in my opinion, as sometimes you need to get out of the saddle and mash a climb.

    Iíve also been looking at the Trek Top Fuel, which has 100mm of rear suspension, a slightly slacker head tube angle than the Niner at 70 degrees, although you can tweak the Mino Link pivot with 5mm wrench to increase it to 70.9 degrees. It is very light and seems to check all the boxes with boost spacing and a remote lockout. It is designed for 100mm of travel but I donít see why you couldnít run 120mm (am I wrong?). Looks like Trek was closing out the 2017 inventory for $2k but they appear to be all sold out, darn. The 2018 appears to be unchanged from 2017 and will set me back $3k. Right now itís Niner vs. Trek...

  17. #17
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    Well, the decision has been made. I found a barely used Niner RKT 9 RDO complete four-star build listed on Pink bike, and it turns out the guy lives 15 minutes away. It was built up with a 120mm Fox 34 Float and SRAM Eagle XO1. The next thing I know Iím test riding it around the neighborhood and then driving home with it. The guy I bought it from has two other Niner RKT 9s in his garage, a hardcore racer, he had tons of great advice on why to go with the 120mm fork and even a dropper post. Iíve never bought a used bike, but Iím really happy with her, sheís a beauty:

    Looking for an XC 29er: RKT 9 RDO?-c2a5a368-ed65-4437-8283-2848236fd541.jpg
    Looking for an XC 29er: RKT 9 RDO?-e672174c-ffe7-4aea-97e6-a0f4c7c714a4.jpg
    Looking for an XC 29er: RKT 9 RDO?-70950564-b654-4280-9157-0488e97ad27d.jpg

  18. #18
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    Nice find!!!
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  19. #19
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    Congrats, I was coming on here to point you to 429 SL builds in the 22-23lb range.
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  20. #20
    Two wheels are best
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    Very nice! I don't think you'll be disappointed!

    I love mine and it's not as nicely equipped as yours (100mm fork with GX).

    Sent from my VK810 4G using Tapatalk
    Never be afraid to try something new.

    Remember amateurs built the Ark.
    Professionals built the Titanic.

  21. #21
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    What's she weigh?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by splitendz View Post
    What's she weigh?
    The Niner frame is a very light 4.5 lbs in a medium, so I was kind of surprised to see my XL size four star build tip the scales at just over 25 lbs with XTR pedals. But it makes sense after weighing some individual components on the bike.

    To begin, I have an XL frame, so that adds some weight. Then there is the 34mm stanchion 120mm travel Fox fork, which is a great fork but not known for being in the lightweight XC racer class like the Fox 32 SC or the RockShox World Cup. That adds maybe a pound and a half right there.

    I do plan on getting the weight down. The furniture on the bike is mixed, the saddle was an okay 250 grams, the pair of locking alloy grips 104 grams, those will be replaced by a lighter saddle and Ritchey foam grips that weigh nearly nothing. The carbon stem is very light, and the carbon seat post and handlebars are also light, although the bars are a generous 780mm (but have marks if you want to cut them down).

    The biggest change will be adding some Nox carbon hoops, their Teocalli set weighs 1489 grams with I9 hubs, replacing the Stans Arch EX wheels advertised by Stans at 1770 grams. Those Nox Teocalli wheels are 26mm internal width so they aren't wimpy. I'll be swapping out the pedals with lighter eggbeaters and the tires with lighter Racing Ralphs (but only because I need a pair of new tires to put on the bike I'm selling, the Ikons are a great racing tire). That should bring it down to just under 23 lbs, but after I add a Bike Yoke dropper post it will be closer to 24. Not bad for an XL bike that is built to all-mountain durability standards.

    You can definitely do a weight weenie build with this frame, but you'd want to start with a frameset and do it your way.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    The Niner frame is a very light 4.5 lbs in a medium, so I was kind of surprised to see my XL size four star build tip the scales at just over 25 lbs with XTR pedals. But it makes sense after weighing some individual components on the bike.

    To begin, I have an XL frame, so that adds some weight. Then there is the 34mm stanchion 120mm travel Fox fork, which is a great fork but not known for being in the lightweight XC racer class like the Fox 32 SC or the RockShox World Cup. That adds maybe a pound and a half right there.

    I do plan on getting the weight down. The furniture on the bike is mixed, the saddle was an okay 250 grams, the pair of locking alloy grips 104 grams, those will be replaced by a lighter saddle and Ritchey foam grips that weigh nearly nothing. The carbon stem is very light, and the carbon seat post and handlebars are also light, although the bars are a generous 780mm (but have marks if you want to cut them down).

    The biggest change will be adding some Nox carbon hoops, their Teocalli set weighs 1489 grams with I9 hubs, replacing the Stans Arch EX wheels advertised by Stans at 1770 grams. Those Nox Teocalli wheels are 26mm internal width so they aren't wimpy. I'll be swapping out the pedals with lighter eggbeaters and the tires with lighter Racing Ralphs (but only because I need a pair of new tires to put on the bike I'm selling, the Ikons are a great racing tire). That should bring it down to just under 23 lbs, but after I add a Bike Yoke dropper post it will be closer to 24. Not bad for an XL bike that is built to all-mountain durability standards.

    You can definitely do a weight weenie build with this frame, but you'd want to start with a frameset and do it your way.
    Out of curiosity where did you get the frame weight from? I didn't want to say anything else since you had the bike, but from what I found a med is 4.9 lbs.
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  24. #24
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    Several reviewers have weighed the bike and quoted the 4.5 lb frame weight. Here is one:

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/niner-...view-2016.html

    ďThe RKT 9 RDO fares well when it's time to hoist it on the scales. The carbon frame and far shock combo weigh in at just 2,041 grams (4.5 pounds). Impressive as hell. The entire frame is made of carbon. The only exception here are the aluminum linkages, which Niner says are both lighter and stiffer than carbon versions. For comparison's sake, the RKT 9 frame is a full half-pound lighter than Niner's previous flagship racer, the Jet 9 RDO, which was no boat anchor itself. Ē

    I havenít weighed the frame as I bought it complete, so I can only speak to complete weight.

  25. #25
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    My medium RKT frame weighed just barely under 5 Lbs.

  26. #26
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    That was with seat collar and rear axle.

  27. #27
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    How does the boost 32mm fork compare to the non boost 120? I stuck with 27.5 because the 120 is still stiff so you don't need a 34 for a bigger rider. You may consider doing a lefty build if weight is that big a priority and you want 120. You could even run a lefty 130 for 27.5 to shave even more weight. Still the same 29 climbing traction and the same geometry as a 29 120 front.

  28. #28
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    I'm liking this as a frame up build for that sale price posted earlier in the in the thread.

  29. #29
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    I added some. Nox Teocalli carbon wheels with 26mm inner width and 32 spokes front and back, and a Bike Yoke dropper post. Swapped out the Niner locking grips for Ritchey foam grips, and traded the saddle for something lighter. Sheís at exactly 24 lbs with pedals. Losing the dropper post and choosing a few lighter bits would easily bring this to under 23 lbs. Iím waiting for the snow to melt to give this baby some singletrack!

  30. #30
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    Boz,

    Now that you've been riding your RKT for a while, how are you liking it? Made any more changes?

    I've had my RKT for a few years and still really like it, but I'm about to make a bunch of changes to it. My RKT was a 4 star with XO1 11-speed and Niner carbon wheels. I ditched the SRAM brakes early on and put XTR Trails on it. With that set up it weighs 25.08 lbs. Currently has a Fox 100mm from fork with FIT4 damper (not the SC). I also have a Stages PM on it.

    I recently received the new 120mm SC from am going to put this on. I'm switching out the rear cassette for an E-Thirteen Race and got a Bike Yoke dropper that I also need to install. I don't have them yet, but plan to replace the Niner carbon wheels with a set of Enve M525's. This should keep the whole bike fresh for a while longer while Niner regroups.

  31. #31
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    Kuttermax,

    Man do I love this bike. Since the pictures I've made a few updates, it has a Bike Yoke dropper seat post and I switched the fork for the new 120 SC from Fox, it is awesome, you will love that fork. I sold the Stan's Arch wheels and bought a set of Nox carbon wheels (28mm inner width). I looked at the Enve's but they were too much $$$, plus I wanted something in between 25mm and 30mm, but if I had the choice I'd probably go for the 30mm. For another bike, I recently bought another set of carbon rims direct from China for $350 and had them built up by a local expert, with a set of I9 hubs I was probably all in at around $1,000, they've been awesome too.

    I really love how this bike climbs like a goat and then descends with such confidence. It feels like so much more suspension travel than last bike, a Jet 9 RDO with 100mm rear suspension.

    Niner is under new ownership which is solid and the brand is going to keep getting better and better. I expect a new version of the RKT to come out in a year or so, probably a little slacker head tube angle, maybe a touch more rear travel, bumping it up to 100mm. I probably will be riding this bike for 5 more years, I wouldn't change anything to it.

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