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  1. #1
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    Looking to go for a rockhopper comp to a carve

    Is that to close a bike or a good next level ride. I put on about 40 miles a week and love my comp but I seem to be reaching with the bike lately trying to get it to do stuff it does not want to do. The only thing I changed on the comp was I cut the bars an inch on each side to try and improve the handling but it stills seem sluggish on the turns at speed.

    Really like the way the carve looks and seems to address a few issues well.


    thoughts?

  2. #2
    R.I.P. DogFriend
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    The frames are nearly identical as far as geometry goes, but the component spec is obviously better on the Carve. Not sure merely getting a .5° steeper head tube angle is going to change the steering enough to matter to you. I have felt a difference lowering the stem as little as 1/4". Maybe try lowering the stem to get your weight a little more on top of the front wheel. You've already got a 71° head angle, and the chainstays are 445mm long (not terrible on an XC hardtail with a front derailleur).

  3. #3
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    Thank you for the info.

  4. #4
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    Is it your first 29er?
    13 Lenz Lunchbox punkass
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  5. #5
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    Would be my second

  6. #6
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    Test a couple bike with more current geo, like a Trek X-Cal and a Scott 940 or 930.
    Ride in and out of ditches and on the grass if that's as all you can get.
    The geo shows up more on trail.

  7. #7
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    I second the X-Caliber.
    Big Wheels Keep On Rolling

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  8. #8
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    Having a motorcycle background, it's interesting to me that people look at bicycles as sluggish in the turns at speed.

    But rather than criticize you judgement or riding, let me say this:

    Once a bike is at speed, turning starts to get a little different, and it can feel like a bike is slow to respond to for example turning left when the handlebars are pointed towards the left. It's actually not supposed to flick left all of a sudden, as it willingly does when riding slow. This is due to the gyroscopic effect of the flywheel (your front wheels) and a phenomenon called gyroscopic precession. The gyroscopic stability helps things get stable at speed, but more importantly, input forces to the "gyroscope"... aka the front tire/wheel assembly... react 90 degrees later in the rotation.

    So how do we flick the bike to the left? Countersteering which is nudging the left handlebar forward... nudges the bike to lean to the left, and you follow through with body weight. Most experienced riders do this without realizing it, but some know that to miss a rock or a tree suddenly, you have to nudge the handlebar the "wrong way".

    If that's too confusing, reducing the rotating mass lessens the effect, after all, you're not going 150 mph here, maybe 30.

    Reducing the head angle, decreasing trail, lowering the front, will all make it twitchier, but you still have a gyroscope spinning where turning the handlebars to the left causes the bike to initially respond by leaning to the right... just responds a little quicker and a little more pronounced. Probably not exactly what you want.

  9. #9
    CS2
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidHarsay View Post
    So how do we flick the bike to the left? Countersteering which is nudging the left handlebar forward... nudges the bike to lean to the left, and you follow through with body weight. Most experienced riders do this without realizing it, but some know that to miss a rock or a tree suddenly, you have to nudge the handlebar the "wrong way".
    Having ridden a lot of motorcycles it's nice to hear someone who understands. Very good explanation.
    1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1992 Stumpjumpers. 1995 Waterford 1200, 1999 Waterford RSE, plus a garage full of steel frames.

  10. #10
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    Great explanation, having ridden off-road moto's for many years its well known to use counter-steering and weight shifts to get a 250 lb. moto to turn at speed. I find it curious that mtn. bikers get all excited over 1/2 to 1 deg. head angle change on a mountain bike.

  11. #11
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    Thanks, also I guess the point was that quickening the steering may not get the precise feeling desired, and lighter front and rear tires/wheels can also be looked at.

    I learned to countersteer on a road bicycle and applied it to motorcycles when I first started riding, and it has probably saved my life many times over.

    However, I wondered if this may have been too off-topic or a little controversial to bring this up, and thought that some people might argue that it shouldn't be necessary. Googled "bicycle countersteering" and came up with this on the Wikipedia:

    Conscious countersteering is generally not needed in normal bicycling, but it can be very useful—even potentially lifesaving—in emergency maneuvers, and is taught as the instant turn (a term coined by John Forester) in traffic cycling courses offered through the League of American Bicyclists. League certified instructors teach students to be prepared to make a sudden sharp turn to avoid, for example, being hit by a motorist who just overtaken them and then turned across their path, cutting the cyclist off. The instant turn is initiated by quickly jerking the bars to the left (the countersteer), which initiates the necessary lean to the right, and then turning sharply into the required turn to the right. Racing cyclists and cyclists performing fast hill descents may also use conscious countersteering in order to initiate and manage the fast, precise turns necessary.
    Countersteering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  12. #12
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    Since I own both I will say go for the Carve and never look back. I bought the RH comp 29 last year as a '13 model and after 6 months I had to go for the Carve Pro 29 '13. Feels better, lighter, faster. I love the fox shock and 2x10 setup much more. I can't get enough saddle time now.

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