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  1. #301
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    Neon Pink Jabber on the Womble Trail AR.
    Lets see those Vassago Jabberwocky builds....-dsc03727.jpg

    Flyn G

  2. #302
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    Anyone have any pics of a green jabber with red hubs and nipples? Thinking twice about pimping out my ride like an x-mas tree. Black hubs, spokes and nipples would be a safe choice...

  3. #303
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    Last weekend.



    Not the most color-coordinated. That's how I roll. But I do have a matching rear cog I need to install.

  4. #304
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    Snowy recently geared Jabberwocky

  5. #305
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    Glad to see another JabberSnowky. Are you using Gear Plug 2? How's it work? I've got one and wanted to try 1x10 for a bit this year.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by p nut
    Glad to see another JabberSnowky. Are you using Gear Plug 2? How's it work? I've got one and wanted to try 1x10 for a bit this year.
    Gear Plug 1 actually. It came with the frame when I picked it up 2.5 years ago. I am using a Jabbernut on the other side the keep the wheel centered. I am also using an XT skewer really tight. One ride so far, and I am happy with it. I forgot how well hardtails climb.

  7. #307
    Did I catch a niner+?
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    Mr. Krabs: Is it true, Squidward? Is it hilarious?

  8. #308
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    It's a Jabberwocky thread, but the Fisti is pretty cool.

  9. #309
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    Custom Independent Fabrications Ti Deluxe
    Carbon Niner Air 9 SS/rigid
    Carbon Niner Jet 9
    Ritchey Swiss Cross Disc

  10. #310
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    Is there a Bander thread like this??

  11. #311
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    Just finishsed the jabber build! I planned to re-use the salsa seatpost, but its too short at 350mm, need to go to 410 I guess.

    This is my first singlespeed and I am stoked.

    Headset Cane Creek S3
    Pedals Crank Brothers Egg Beaters 2
    HandleBars Salsa Pro Moto Flat Bar
    Stem Salsa Moto Ace (100mm)
    Crank Shimano SLX
    Brakes Shimano XT Hydraulic
    Chain SRAM PC 850
    Fork RockShox Reba Team 2010
    Spacer Kit Endless
    Bashguard BBG
    Saddle Sette Nyx
    Seatpost TBD
    Skewers Shimano XT
    Chainring Salsa
    Cogs Surly
    Wheels Stan's Archs with Hope Pro IIs

    I am 5'9 and currently ride a Salsa Dos Niner Medium, but decided to get a size Small JabberWocky. I rode it yesterday mostly out of the saddle, but really need a new post first to get the feel for it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Lets see those Vassago Jabberwocky builds....-jabberwocky2.jpg  


  12. #312
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    it's alive.....


  13. #313
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    NICE....now I really can't wait to finish my build!
    On-One ScandAl 29er
    "...Obviously you're not a golfer"

  14. #314
    beautiful jackass
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    Built up yesterday - maiden voyage coming today





    Fork: Manitou Tower Pro
    Wheels: Stans ZTR Flow
    Tires: Maxxis Ardent (2.4" front, 2.25" rear)
    Brakes: Avid BB7
    Headset: FSA Orbit XL II
    Bars: Easton EA70
    Grips: Odi Rogue
    Stem: Truvativ Stylo World Cup
    Seatpost: Truvativ Stylo
    Seat: Spoon Charge

  15. #315
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    nice.. I like the white rims/fork combo

  16. #316
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    The brown seat and white rims/fork compliment the frame nicely--looks sweet!
    On-One ScandAl 29er
    "...Obviously you're not a golfer"

  17. #317
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    My Jabberwocky

    18 inch Jabber, niner carbon fork, black sheep ti handlebar, Kent Eriksen ti seatpost, Chirs King Hubs(single speed), Arch rims, Eno Cranks, Paul Love Levers, BB7 brakes, chris king headset, thompson elite 4 stem, Phil Wood steel BB, king 17t cog...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Lets see those Vassago Jabberwocky builds....-jab1.jpg  

    Lets see those Vassago Jabberwocky builds....-jab2.jpg  

    Attached Images Attached Images      
    Last edited by zmoonie; 03-01-2011 at 07:28 AM.

  18. #318
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    Very nice!! I love those bars.
    On-One ScandAl 29er
    "...Obviously you're not a golfer"

  19. #319
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    how much does that bad boy weigh?

  20. #320
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    frame from eboogie
    fork from ranman
    thanks
    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/58403619@N02/5496013063/" title="DSCN1431 by 08c246c0ec3f0afd71d5d0d3828ca1de, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5219/5496013063_1f79817d36.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="DSCN1431" /></a>

  21. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by zmoonie
    18 inch Jabber, niner carbon fork, black sheep ti handlebar, Kent Eriksen ti seatpost, Chirs King Hubs(single speed), Arch rims, Eno Cranks, Paul Love Levers, BB7 brakes, chris king headset, thompson elite 4 stem, Phil Wood steel BB, king 17t cog...
    Looks great. Have you ridden the bike with a steel fork? I am interested in a comparison.

  22. #322
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    Finally....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Lets see those Vassago Jabberwocky builds....-vassago2.jpg  

    On-One ScandAl 29er
    "...Obviously you're not a golfer"

  23. #323
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    Mine donated some parts to another bike and just got rebuilt this past week (still need to adjust some cables/hoses):


  24. #324
    ilmfat
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    new jabber

    trying to delete this post.
    Last edited by ilmfat; 04-16-2011 at 10:58 AM.

  25. #325
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  26. #326
    ilmfat
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    now that im really looking at it, im thinking i might take the tape off. if only the vassago decal wasnt blue. maybe ill get some of the white frame stickers. oh, wait. they dont have em. ill wait to see if i get any more eeks. or a full on lynching might be a possibility too. idk

    anyone wanna sell an 18" frame in white?

  27. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilmfat
    just got it built up. not likin the tape, but want a white bike. maybe ill try stickers on it (check the pic of my deadeye in profile to get an idea of what im goin for). want a black one next year, so figured id get 2 birds with one stone, white bike and protect black paint for next year.

    Hey man, can we get a close up of your dropouts with that ardent in the back?

    I like white too but do that bike justice and powdercoat it.

    We have the same color scheme. black white red. I still havent posted mine yet but i will the day i get my ISAR homebrew bash. (in red of course)

    Sheepo
    Raised in a Chicken-Coop by Chickens

  28. #328
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    You can always go and get some stickers made. There realy isn't much detail in their stickers it should be pretty easy.

  29. #329
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    really?, seriously??

  30. #330
    ilmfat
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    ill post pics of the chainstays tomorrow, but itll just confirm that its too tight. i only had the ardent mounted in the rear to check clearance. i think i might try it on a flow, see if i can get away with that. all the way forward there was maybe 2mm. maybe.

    this bike started out as a white dawes deadeye. i upgraded everything, and really dug the color scheme, hated the frame. if ida known i was gonna get a black jabber, all the red parts would be white, and all the white parts black (i still might do that). my fear is ill paint it, then when i go to do an igh (black with a lil bit of brown) next year, theyll have a white one, but no black. the dumbest thing of all? i put the stickers from all my (and my wife's) upgrades on the deadeye frame, as i thought i would wait to get a new frame. then huckNroll hucked and rolled that idea into the ground. i placed an order for the silver Vas' stickers. now i just gotta recover the stickers from my deadeye. anyone know a good trick for removal and re-application? ill talk to my neighbor about powder coating. i think ill still leave the fork taped tho. carbon scares me, even if it is on-one carbon.

  31. #331
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    wow...thats a first

  32. #332
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    You could prob get away with it on a flow. My rampage has enough room to grow a few mms on each side and its on a flow. Its also all the way to the front. Almost
    Raised in a Chicken-Coop by Chickens

  33. #333
    ilmfat
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    well, i guess im easily swayed. tape came off, except a lil on the seat tube. i need SOME contrast. prolly send it out for paint next week. *sorry i wasted some of that tape longhaul*.

    thanks for the info on the flows. id hate to build a wheel, only to find out i have to go with a smaller tire anyways. my chain length sets it about 1/3 the way back, so hopefully thatll do it. updated pics manana.

  34. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilmfat
    well, i guess im easily swayed. tape came off.
    good call, although you may be on to something there for Halloween, think "The Mummy"!

    you have a solid build there, nice job!

  35. #335
    ilmfat
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    new, new jabber.

    i left a lil bit of tape on the seat tube, which gave me an idea. still ended up takin it off tho.

    it doesnt look to bad. one pic for now.

    im gonna get some stickers with red lettering/white background made up. i think im gonna dedicate this build to the latest changes at vassago. more pics to come.

    heres some clearance pics. forgot to get a non-drive seatstay pic. but you get the idea.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Lets see those Vassago Jabberwocky builds....-ds-chainstay.jpg  

    Attached Images Attached Images    

  36. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilmfat
    heres some clearance pics. forgot to get a non-drive seatstay pic. but you get the idea.

    Thanks!
    Raised in a Chicken-Coop by Chickens

  37. #337
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  38. #338
    ilmfat
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    im thinkin i might lose the tape on the fork. anyone know where i can get some clear protective tape? by the roll, as opposed to by the chainstay/frame patch sizes?

  39. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by markham_guy
    Powder Coated
    Maan, that's the color of my dream. Just a pure beauty.
    Btw what color is this ?

  40. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilmfat
    i left a lil bit of tape on the seat tube, which gave me an idea. still ended up takin it off tho.

    it doesnt look to bad. one pic for now.

    im gonna get some stickers with red lettering/white background made up. i think im gonna dedicate this build to the latest changes at vassago. more pics to come.

    heres some clearance pics. forgot to get a non-drive seatstay pic. but you get the idea.

    THERE'S the pics I been longing to see,my friend! She DOES look awesome
    '11 Origin 8 700CX
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  41. #341
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    My new one too. Still wearing borrowed-from-another-bike wheels/cranks,but soon I hope to replace those


    '11 Origin 8 700CX
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  42. #342
    ilmfat
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    just wait yo. change is in the wind.

  43. #343
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    Do tell
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  44. #344
    ilmfat
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    id love to. but im working on a coorinated double strike of awesomeness with a homey expecting parts. so we'll just have to wait for final assembly.

  45. #345
    ilmfat
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    not quite there...

    the marys a lil much. i think i wanna try the fleegle next.

    odis on the way.

    still on the injured list and dint feel like mounting knobbies just for pix, so, just like yesterdays weather map, you'll have to picture them in ur mind. ardent 2.4 front/ conti mk 2.4 rear on the trail.

    black (ish) fsa v-drive next.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Lets see those Vassago Jabberwocky builds....-jabber.jpg  

    Lets see those Vassago Jabberwocky builds....-jab2.jpg  


  46. #346
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    Oh that's looking SA-WEET!!!

    I ran them Mary-bars on me old Monocog a season...definately took'd some getting used to (I dunno that I ever did...)
    '11 Origin 8 700CX
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  47. #347
    ilmfat
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    i can see how theyd be fun to climb with. but i rolled a five stair and it was definitely weird tryin to hang my a$$ off the rear end and hold onto such a swept bar.

    that, and my "cruising" position, i kept wantin to move my hands to a less sweep position. im hopin about 20 degs'll do me.

  48. #348
    ilmfat
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    another iteration

    just didnt feel like putting the mary back on.

    i only got to ride it around the block, but that includes a quick little downhill, some cobblestones and a couple curbs.

    on one carbon to pitchfork (thats right, its not an odis, its a pitch.):

    i can see why people say carbon is "smoother". i definitely felt the curbs a little more solidly, but only a little. brake chatter significantly reduced.

    but more importantly, the bike felt way more "balanced". i dont mean weight wise. its hard to explain. my jabber feels like one piece of equipment now, instead of a machine made up of parts. maybe its in my head.

    i have a black odis coming, so im hoping the pitch fits on my origin8 scout frame i ordered. the numbers look kind of tight tho. the black odis has the steerer i need for the scout frame.

    if the pitchfork doesnt fit the scout, i guess im gonna have a yellow fork on my blackerwocky. im definitely not gonna paint it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Lets see those Vassago Jabberwocky builds....-jabberwock.jpg  

    Lets see those Vassago Jabberwocky builds....-jabberw2.jpg  

    Lets see those Vassago Jabberwocky builds....-jabberw3.jpg  


  49. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilmfat
    i can see how theyd be fun to climb with. but i rolled a five stair and it was definitely weird tryin to hang my a$$ off the rear end and hold onto such a swept bar.

    that, and my "cruising" position, i kept wantin to move my hands to a less sweep position. im hopin about 20 degs'll do me.
    Well...you'll notice I'm not running it on anything anymore (nor did I keep it)...

    I dig that yellow! Too ad they ain't still making complete bikes that color
    '11 Origin 8 700CX
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  50. #350
    ilmfat
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    forks gotta go. my wife actually told me yesterday that she liked my wheels. i asked wheels or tires (cause the tires are big pimpin, but the wheels are just wheels ya know?), and she said she liked the whole bike. not with the yellow fork now tho.

    have some brake rub due to lateral flex. is this normal? should i troubleshoot or live with it?

    longhaul, you shoulda told me dude was givin ya flak on that budget SS thread. ida set him straight.

  51. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilmfat
    longhaul, you shoulda told me dude was givin ya flak on that budget SS thread. ida set him straight.

    If you're talking about 1spd,it was a misunderstanding,and on my part,h's kool Not only is he kool,he's driving down from Knoxville come June and he,Andrew,(possibly) Dave and I are piling up the bikes in two rides,heading down to Blacksburg (one of my all time favorite places to ride) on a Friday to ride all day Saturday

    If you're talking about someone else...I musta missed it...
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  52. #352
    ilmfat
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    you know me. i dont bother with names. just feces.

    hopefully by the time humidity lets up ill be trail-able. and hopefully i learn how to climb by then. if i get climbing this season im definitely comin down for a ride.

  53. #353
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    There's always a cold Mtn Dew and a good bit of singletrack'n for you here,my friend,come on down
    '11 Origin 8 700CX
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  54. #354
    ilmfat
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    ew. mt. dew. nevermind.

  55. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilmfat
    ew. mt. dew. nevermind.

    It's awe-ite...we got's Pepsi,Coke,and a few others too

    Killer ride today on the Jabber (and by that I mean ,while trying to keep on the Redline's wheel while a 21 year old Andrew was at it's helm-which I did most of the day,LOL-I almost died 16 times-one for each year older I am from him )
    '11 Origin 8 700CX
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  56. #356
    ilmfat
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    good to hear man. altho i still might bring my own, unless you got a place that has raspberry snapple. its kinda hit and miss here.

    and sweet on the ride. good to know you can still be a wheel sucker, eh? not too surprised as your a sucker in general .

    so i switched out to a 185 rotor. figured it might help. it wont. i was able to cause rub just by puttin about 15 pounds (if that) of pressure on the fork leg with my thumb. so ill prolly just get used to it. maybe ill get lucky and this one'll fit the scout and the odis wont have this problem (prol not as they are the same fork). still a nice fork and a great purchase. (ty wish i were riding!)

  57. #357
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    I think we can accomidate the Snapple (there'll be someplace that carries it ).

    Didn't just hang off his wheel all day (not counting the times I was dead and hacking/coughing from being outta shape ),I ran away and hid on a couple downhill sections

    Bummer on the rubbing...
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  58. #358
    ilmfat
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    eh. ill try the odis. if it dont work either, i still might just run it.

    maybe im just too fat for an odis.

  59. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilmfat
    eh...maybe im just too fat for an odis.

    Nah...I doubt that
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  60. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilmfat
    forks gotta go. my wife actually told me yesterday that she liked my wheels. i asked wheels or tires (cause the tires are big pimpin, but the wheels are just wheels ya know?), and she said she liked the whole bike. not with the yellow fork now tho.

    have some brake rub due to lateral flex. is this normal? should i troubleshoot or live with it?

    longhaul, you shoulda told me dude was givin ya flak on that budget SS thread. ida set him straight.
    What? Fork's already gettin' axed by the wife? I think it looks fine!

  61. #361
    ilmfat
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    more of a supporting vote. i want a true blackerwocky. she concurs.

    welp, it was either the 203 rotor or my crappy install. not a whisper after putting the 185 on there.

    sweet.

  62. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilmfat
    more of a supporting vote. i want a true blackerwocky. she concurs.

    welp, it was either the 203 rotor or my crappy install. not a whisper after putting the 185 on there.

    sweet.
    Paint it then.

    Glad to hear the brake issue is gone. I used 185mm on it, and it was always solid.

  63. #363
    ilmfat
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    i really hate to "defile" it. if it fits on the scout ill keep it yellow. if not, i prolly will paint it.

    i think if it were an odis i wouldnt even blink. but since its a pitchfork, im very reluctant to paint it.

  64. #364
    ilmfat
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    looks like the scouts headtube is 115, not the 130 i thought it was. no way the on-one'll fit, but the pitchfork shouldnt be a problem. i might actually have to run a spacer. i thought i wouldnt be able to swing it, turns out i got plenty of room.

    heres me with egg on my face.

    *super stoked*

  65. #365
    ilmfat
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    my seat tube is FULL of rust!



    havent had it built 3 weeks yet.



    what do i need to do to save my frame?

  66. #366
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    too much talk...not enough pics

  67. #367
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    G: I have no idear other than to ride it like you stole it

    ebineezer: Here's one of my 2 week old (+/-) Jabber with my new yesterday (in the shop being built)/today (brought it home) Bander
    '11 Origin 8 700CX
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  68. #368
    ilmfat
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    ask and ye shall recieve.

    cant get pics of the pool of rusty sludge above the BB.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Lets see those Vassago Jabberwocky builds....-st.jpg  

    Lets see those Vassago Jabberwocky builds....-st2.jpg  


  69. #369
    ilmfat
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    whelp, i guess the r-tech tubing only matters on the exterior.

    i wish they would not imply it doesnt need frame saver.

    cant fault them for my ignorance, i guess.

    im just gonna take it to the shop and have him clean it up. labor rates be damned.

  70. #370
    VENI VEDI BIKI
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    previously posted....now in Gravel Grinder Mode




  71. #371
    US Army Vet-Airborne 11B
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    Longhaul LIKES! (he likes all things green and Jabber)
    '11 Origin 8 700CX
    '14 Surly Troll

  72. #372
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    This is my first ever build, and I'm very proud of it. I'll post a full parts list if anyone is interested.

  73. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by tylernim



    This is my first ever build, and I'm very proud of it. I'll post a full parts list if anyone is interested.
    I'm interested

  74. #374
    Bro Mountainbiker
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    Yes please! Nice build!
    Raised in a Chicken-Coop by Chickens

  75. #375
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    20" Frame
    Reba RLT Ti fork
    Chris King NoThreadSet
    Easton EC90 SL Bar
    EA90 Stem (100mm/no rise)
    ESI Chunky Grips
    WTB Rocket V Saddle
    EC90 Zero Post
    Salsa Post Collar
    White Industries Bottom Bracket
    White Industries Eno Cranks (34T ring /w bash guard)
    Crank Brothers Candy Pedals
    Chris King ISO Disc Hubs (SS in rear with King 18T cog)
    Avid BB7 Brakes (185mm front/160mm rear)
    Avid Speed Dial 7 Levers
    Jagwire Cables and Housings

  76. #376
    Master of Beat
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    What's the weight for total bike on these?? Anyone?

  77. #377
    ilmfat
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    mine's bout 30 lbs.

    not the jabbers fault tho. big apple's on azonic outlaws w bb7's would hurt an A9C.
    crap! i gotta learn to climb.

  78. #378
    Expert Crasher
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilmfat
    ask and ye shall recieve.

    cant get pics of the pool of rusty sludge above the BB.
    That is surface rust. Nothing that can't be treated. Pull the parts off the frame and hit it with some Frame Saver. After a wet ride or wash down, I squirt some WD-40 in the drain hole on the bottom of the BB shell while it is inverted, then let it drain. Usually collects and excess water that way.
    Happiness depends more on the inward disposition of mind than on outward circumstances. Benjamin Franklin

  79. #379
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    Mine, the latest pictures in the thread, is about 22 lbs. I have yet to get my hands on a bike scale, though.

  80. #380
    ilmfat
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    i used a gun cleaning kit to get the seat tube.

    im gonna frame saver my new one, but the black one im just gonna let alone. maybe the r-tech will allow surface rust, but inhibit the growth of deep rust.

    course, if i move to rhode island, i might change my perspective.
    crap! i gotta learn to climb.

  81. #381
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    Jabberwocky

    I posted this Jabber in another thread already but figured she belongs here too.


  82. #382
    US Army Vet-Airborne 11B
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    Quote Originally Posted by attomixt
    What's the weight for total bike on these?? Anyone?

    26 and change (my Bandersnatch is about 3-4 lbs heavier,FWIW)
    '11 Origin 8 700CX
    '14 Surly Troll

  83. #383
    Bro Mountainbiker
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    Been built for a while but never been posted before

    Here is "Felix the Cat"

    " width="549">
    " width="549">
    " width="549">
    " width="549">
    " width="549">

    Ill add my build write up if anyone wants to see it.

    Sheepo
    Raised in a Chicken-Coop by Chickens

  84. #384
    US Army Vet-Airborne 11B
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    NICE!
    '11 Origin 8 700CX
    '14 Surly Troll

  85. #385
    Bro Mountainbiker
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    Quote Originally Posted by longhaultrucker
    NICE!

    Thank you sir!
    Raised in a Chicken-Coop by Chickens

  86. #386
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    Indeed, sheepo, right on! Great color combos. I recently threw a Niner Carbon fork on my Vassago--love it!
    On-One ScandAl 29er
    "...Obviously you're not a golfer"

  87. #387
    US Army Vet-Airborne 11B
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepo5669
    Thank you sir!
    No need to,your Jabber deservs the praise
    '11 Origin 8 700CX
    '14 Surly Troll

  88. #388
    Bro Mountainbiker
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    Nice lookin sled. Are those silver or white spokes? I love the murdered out look
    Raised in a Chicken-Coop by Chickens

  89. #389
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    Just built this up a couple of days ago! I think the Niner fork is there to stay. Limited ride time but love it so far!

    The 2nd photo is comparing the Wet Cat geometry vs. Dry Cat.





    Last edited by Flat Ark; 06-08-2011 at 05:31 AM.

  90. #390
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    Thx! They are white spokes. It's actually a wheelset off of a Superfly 100.
    Last edited by Flat Ark; 06-08-2011 at 06:03 AM.

  91. #391
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    Sweet! I want white spokes for my set of race wheels but the 40$ for a box of 20 is a little absurd. And that's after my bike shop employee discount!
    Raised in a Chicken-Coop by Chickens

  92. #392
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    I'd get a $3 can of spray paint and do it myself.

  93. #393
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    Quick picture of my Jabberwocky....


  94. #394
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    ..and a picture of my wife's...


  95. #395
    jct
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    my jabber

    here's my jabber.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Lets see those Vassago Jabberwocky builds....-img_0474.jpg  


  96. #396
    I'm attracted to Gravity!
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    all these pics of clean SS jabbers in the back yard are kinda concerning me.....
    here's the next to latest iteration of mine:


    I just put a squishy fork on it so needed a good test. 8,700 feet to 12,000 feet and back down through a whole bunch of loose rocks in about 10 miles did the trick. Now the Brooks B-17 went back on and its about to get modified.
    also, a couple weeks ago it was in fat front mode:

    That's right, the ODIS fits an Endomorph in a rhynolite rim!

  97. #397
    jct
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    Quote Originally Posted by campredcloudbikes View Post
    all these pics of clean SS jabbers in the back yard are kinda concerning me.....
    it's finally dry here on the central coast!!!

  98. #398
    don't fear the barleywine
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    I have a 2010 Jabberwocky and I just changed my front tire to an Ardent 2.4. It's sweet. I want to change the rear to an Ardent as well, but the 2.4 is too fat on my Mavic TN-719 rims.

    Will an Ardent 2.25 fit on this rim in the rear with decent clearance? Anyone have any pics? I don't like the axle all the way back if I can avoid it.

  99. #399
    Robtre
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    Is vassago out of business? I wish to join your cause

  100. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by robtre View Post
    Is vassago out of business?
    Nope. They managed to survive.

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