Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 88
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    825

    Just Curious- Belt Drive- WHY?

    SO- Spot seems to be sticking with the belt drive on their new 29er Cream bikes. Why? Does anyone really use one in conditions other than commuting? Nobody here in the northeast that I know uses one. Just curious why the application is still considered viable for a serious MTB setup vs. a commuter where I can see its application.

  2. #2
    4 Niners
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,113
    Zero maintenance for 10,000 miles.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    825
    Curious- what kind of conditions do you ride in? If this were the case I'd think more people would be riding them. As I was thinking about it- the carry an extra belt element may also be a big reason. Do you carry a belt with you just in case?

  4. #4
    4 Niners
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,113
    I don't have a belt bike, but the belts are lasting that long now. Do all the Harley Davidson riders carry an extra belt?
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  5. #5
    4 Niners
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,113
    The reason they are not that popular is chains are 98% efficient and belts are 93% efficient. Changing gear ratios on a belt bike is expensive and requires more parts. You have to have a specially designed frame. To be approved by Gates, the frame can only flex a limited amount under pedaling forces. This can make it harder to get a good ride quality.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    152
    Im with you on this. I see belt bikes from time to time. Its more of a gimmick to me on mtn bikes. I know the benefits crazy long life, less parts wear, super quiet, and basically maintenance free. It just doesn't improve enough on the chain for it outweigh its cost and awkwardness in the mountain world.
    2010 D440 Redline Rigid 1x9
    2011 Trek Remedy 8 1x10
    2012 Jamis Dragon 2x10
    2013 Diamondback Sortie 3 1x10

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    536
    I have a belt bike. Its not maintenance free. And yes, I am doing it correctly. My friend that works for Spot said so. I have also broken a belt. I walked home. No thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    If I told you I saw a unicorn ****ing a leprechaun trail side, you'd probably be suspicious.

  8. #8
    Crash Dummy In Training
    Reputation: PauLCa916's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,424
    I have wondered how the drag is on a belt drive compared to a chain.
    I use to race Remote Control cars and bought a belt drive transmission and the drag was so bad it was hard to gear the car so the batteries would last a full race.
    Oh and to the above question "Do Harley Riders carry an extra belt ?" I never did and never broke one on my 1991 soft Tail Springer and I rode it hard for 14,000 miles.
    ​​
    2015 Flyxii / ENVE /Chris King Carbon 29'er H.T.
    SRAM XX1
    2012 Stump Jumper Comp 29'er H.T. SRAM XX1
    1997 Rock Hopper / Rock Shox Recon Silver / 1 x 10 SRAM X9 XO Mix XT V Brake system

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    73
    I'm on my second bike fitted with a belt drive with no issues so far. I ride a lot of rocky tech sections here in AZ where I've snapped multiple chain links on my geared bikes doing climbs. Granted there are drawbacks to a belt drive system, as mentioned, but there are pros and cons to everything bike related. I'm hoping not to have to hoof it out someday if the belt snaps, but until then. The good thing about frames made to take belts is that I can always switch to a chain system if I needed to.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,462
    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    Zero maintenance for 10,000 miles.
    That's a pretty good reason over there.
    Last edited by Max24; 03-02-2015 at 06:43 PM.

  11. #11
    Old Punk
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    529
    Quote Originally Posted by yourdaguy View Post
    The reason they are not that popular is chains are 98% efficient and belts are 93% efficient. Changing gear ratios on a belt bike is expensive and requires more parts. You have to have a specially designed frame. To be approved by Gates, the frame can only flex a limited amount under pedaling forces. This can make it harder to get a good ride quality.
    V belts have a 95% efficency, but synchronous belts, such as gates drive, are 98-99% efficient. V belts use a wedging action to drive the cogs, but synchronous belts and cogs are timed (notched).
    Synchronous belt drives are equally as efficent as a chain drive, have ZERO stretch(in theory), require no lubricant, are impervious to water, dirt and oil and handle misalignment better.

    However, this is all based on my industrial machine building experience and knowledge. I've never owned or ridden a belt drive bike. But chains and belts are chains and belts, no matter what type of machine it is.
    '09 Specialized Rockhopper expert 29
    Born 26" trials
    '07 Specialized Allez

  12. #12
    4 Niners
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,113
    Even Gates admits that the efficiency of there belts is 93%. Chains flex more easily around the gears and the Gates belts have high and low interlocking areas that cause friction.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    489
    I had two belt driven spot's and they both equally sucked. I'd throw the belt on steep climbs and on some quick bursts. I took both to the LBS to have them look at it to make sure I set everything up correctly, and neither of us could find a flaw in either bike. Sold 'em both and when I got them this was a new thing, so I luckily didn't loose too much. I'd call it my biggest bike related waste of money. Maybe they have gotten better, but I'm not throwing another dime at that mess.
    Livin' the dream.

  14. #14
    4 Niners
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,113
    The original belt drives were absolutely beta stuff that should have never been sold. The belts would come off unless they were so tight that the bearings were binding. This was due to frame flex and the belts were designed with the idea that they would be in perfect alignment at all times. If you want to see what I am talking about, lock your front and rear brake and step on a pedal that the crank arm is at the 9 o'clock position. You will see the frame flex. This is a normal quality of bicycles. Gates redesigned the belts with notches in the pulleys and raised areas on the belts. This allowed the frame to flex some and the belt to still stay on with reasonable (but still high) tension. But further increased frictional losses (from tthe belt, not from the bearings). The current belts do not fly off as the early ones did but have the limitations that I have mentioned in earlier posts. The current belts are also less likely to break. So the current state of the technology is that it works, but it is not efficient, it is expensive, it is hard to change gearing, you must have a frame with a break in the tubing, etc. But, they do now consistently last 10,000 miles for most users without almost any maintenance.

    I know all this because i was an early fan that wanted them to be a great success, but I will never pull the trigger until they solve the many problems. I have followed many threads for several years about this topic. If you want a zero maintenance drive system and don't care about cost and are building a frame and efficiency is not a priority then this is your ideal choice. For everyone else, (which is 98+% of all cyclists) don't even consider this.

    So the the original poster, this is why you don't see this!
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  15. #15
    meh... whatever
    Reputation: monogod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,302
    both chains and belts have pros and cons.

    the original CDC gates belt drives required too much tension and ate hub and bottom bracket bearings. they also could be hypersensitive to alignment issues. the new CDX system doesn't suffer from these maladies.

    i have two spot brand bikes now, a rocker and HB, am in the process of building a cream, and also recently converted a karate monkey ops to belt drive (with nothing more than a hacksaw). so needless to say i'm a fan. it's quiet, maintenance free, no transfer of chain lube/gunk to legs or anything else, absorbs tight spots in the drivetrain making them disappear, and is very smooth.

    it's a very viable option for "a serious MTB setup" if running a singlespeed, but somewhat less if gears are desired since an IGH is generally considered less desirable for a "serious mtb". i plan on building a serious belt drive mtb with a sram 8sp IGH just for giggles since "serious" often depends more on the rider than the machine.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  16. #16
    meh... whatever
    Reputation: monogod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,302
    Quote Originally Posted by PeopleForScience View Post
    I have a belt bike. Its not maintenance free. And yes, I am doing it correctly. My friend that works for Spot said so. I have also broken a belt. I walked home. No thanks.
    two options: either you got a defective belt or you're doing it wrong.

    if you broke a chain on a traditional bicycle would you give up on that too? ever had a flat tyre on a bike? still running pneumatic tyres on it? you get the idea...
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    536
    I guess you cannot read. My friend that works for spot set them up. They are center track belts too. I've broken multiple chains, and repaired them trail side and rode home. Good luck repairing a belt.
    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    If I told you I saw a unicorn ****ing a leprechaun trail side, you'd probably be suspicious.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    290
    I don't have one. I really want a Redline Monobelt though. Here's why:

    1.) Quietness -- definitely number one. I love quiet bikes.
    2.) Uniqueness -- fun to try something different in the MTB world.
    3.) Simplicity -- IMO, while less efficient, a belt is simpler and more elegant than a chain.

    Cycling is a hobby for me, and trying different types of bikes is fun. Belt drive has a lot of tilt, and even if the cons outweigh the pros, there's a good chance I'd still be happy with a Monobelt. I wouldn't be worried about 5% loss in efficiency, singlespeed (or internally geared hubs) are generally not going to be the fastest option anyway.

    As far as the spare belt goes, I think I would definitely carry one except during, e.g., a singlespeed race. Seems like you could zip tie it to the seat stay or down tube easily enough. Probably a matter of time before you see some sort of commercial cage mounted belt holster. I also snowmobile, and even though belts don't break all that often, I don't think I would take my sled a half mile without a spare belt. Peace of mind.

    With all of that said, I don't think I would get a belt drive as my only bike. More of a 3rd or 4th bike kind of situation.
    '12 Santa Cruz Superlight 29 | '12 Santa Cruz Butcher | '06 Specialized Allez Comp | '81 Schwinn Converted Fixie

  19. #19
    meh... whatever
    Reputation: monogod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,302
    Quote Originally Posted by PeopleForScience View Post
    I guess you cannot read. My friend that works for spot set them up. They are center track belts too. I've broken multiple chains, and repaired them trail side and rode home. Good luck repairing a belt.
    at no time did you say your friend at spot set them up. you said, "i am doing it correctly, my friend at spot said so" which in no way implies anyone other than YOU set it up. in addition to not comprehending what you yourself said, you seemed to also fail to comprehend that i wasn't disputing whether or not your belt was set up correctly.

    perhaps next time get your facts straight before being such a tool, eh?

    neither chains nor belts are failproof, but belt failure is possibility vs. probability. is it possible for a non-defective and not worn out properly adjusted belt to fail? certainly. is it probable? nope.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    536
    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    at no time did you say your friend at spot set them up. you said, "i am doing it correctly, my friend at spot said so" which in no way implies anyone other than YOU set it up. in addition to not comprehending what you yourself said, you seemed to also fail to comprehend that i wasn't disputing whether or not your belt was set up correctly.

    perhaps next time get your facts straight before being such a tool, eh?

    neither chains nor belts are failproof, but belt failure is possibility vs. probability. is it possible for a non-defective and not worn out properly adjusted belt to fail? certainly. is it probable? nope.
    I'm not am expert in language but this line petty much Sums up you saying that it's my fault. "two options: either you got a defective belt or you're doing it wrong."

    So here is how I see it, you are clearly better than me and most certainly must have a massive penis. I'm sorry that I ever contested that. I was just trying to save someone the time, money, and hassles that I experienced.

    Out.
    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    If I told you I saw a unicorn ****ing a leprechaun trail side, you'd probably be suspicious.

  21. #21
    meh... whatever
    Reputation: monogod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,302
    Quote Originally Posted by PeopleForScience View Post
    I'm not am expert in language but this line petty much Sums up you saying that it's my fault. "two options: either you got a defective belt or you're doing it wrong."

    So here is how I see it, you are clearly better than me and most certainly must have a massive penis. I'm sorry that I ever contested that. I was just trying to save someone the time, money, and hassles that I experienced.

    Out.
    no expert indeed. what i was suggesting is that you had a defective belt and illustrated that sometimes parts we count on fail. nor was it a personal insult/refutation to suggest that it is very, very rare for a non-defective, correctly installed/aligned belt to spontaneously break as you've reported - i.e. "possibility vs. probability".

    like you, i too know people at spot/gates and have discussed this very issue at length and was told that most of the time belt failure is due to improper handling/installation/alignment. granted, i didn't get actual percentage figures on spontaneous belt failure like you've reported, but i'm guessing it's VERY low. belts are a proven and reliable drive system in use globally on a wide array of industrial, aerospace, motorcycle, and automotive applications - and the cdx system is proving itself to be the same on mtb, road, cross, commuter, and touring bikes.

    so all things considered it would seem you're trying to "save someone" from the exception to the rule.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    825

    gates vs. harley? c'mon.

    Maybe the Harley belts not breaking have something to do with the volume of belt....not a good comparison my man.

    Just Curious- Belt Drive- WHY?-1102_hrbp_29_z-2001_harley_davidson_road_glide-engine_and_belt_drive.jpg

  23. #23
    meh... whatever
    Reputation: monogod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,302
    Quote Originally Posted by jomissa View Post
    Maybe the Harley belts not breaking have something to do with the volume of belt....not a good comparison my man.
    you do know that gates MAKES harly's belts, right?

    for one thing that is the primary belt, not the final drive belt.

    for another, harleys don't come from the factory with primary drive belts. that picture is of an aftermarket conversion. in other words, the chain drive was electively removed in favor of a belt. lots of custom and performance builders go this route because belts are smoother, require less maintenance, and look cool - just like for bicycles.

    for another, it would stand to reason that an engine putting out 60-120hp would need a more robust belt to transfer power from the engine to the transmission (primary drive belt) than would be needed for a human putting out less than .5 hp to transfer power from the cranks to the rear wheel.

    for yet another, due to the advances in belt technology many of the newer harleys use 1" and even 20mm wide final drive belts. interesting when considering the gates cdx system for bicycles uses a 12mm belt.

    so in all actuality, the 12mm wide cycling belt for a .5hp (if that) application is FAR more robust for the application than a 20mm final drive belt for a 60hp application.

    so yeah... it's a good comparison, my man.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    290
    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    so in all actuality, the 12mm wide cycling belt for a .5hp (if that) application is FAR more robust for the application than a 20mm final drive belt for a 60hp application.

    so yeah... it's a good comparison, my man.
    I agree, but I would probably say look at the torque and not the power. I would think that spinning a belt fast--power--would not stress a belt as much as tensile forces--torque. Regardless, the comparison still holds as you're looking at around 100 ft lbs at high RPM on a 20mm-40mm belt vs maybe 50-60 ft lbs at low RPM on a 12mm belt. Plus the motorcycle belt has to contend with engine vibrations, engine movement, parasitics of the belt tensioner, etc. The bicycle belt has to deal with frame flex and maybe off center chainri...uhm...beltrings?
    '12 Santa Cruz Superlight 29 | '12 Santa Cruz Butcher | '06 Specialized Allez Comp | '81 Schwinn Converted Fixie

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    167
    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    belts are a proven and reliable drive system in use globally on a wide array of industrial, aerospace, motorcycle, and automotive applications - and the cdx system is proving itself to be the same on mtb, road, cross, commuter, and touring bikes...
    I was aware of belt-drive when I was into motorcycles.

    One big quibble: IIRC, belts fall down when they're exposed to dirt/grit/mud. Any grit between the belt and pulleys makes them act like sandpaper on each other.

    Again, just IIRC, but this is why you never, ever see belt drive on dirt bikes – they're on tourers and cruisers.

    Why somebody would think that they would do well on a MTB, I don't understand...

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    31
    If you're riding a Harley, you probably have so many other things to worry about...

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    825
    I clearly exceeded my gearhead quotient with that post. If I was worth my salt I'd know that was not the belt in debate. DUH! To those of us less informed....notice has been served! I ride bicycles....never been on a motorcycle.

    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    you do know that gates MAKES harly's belts, right?

    for one thing that is the primary belt, not the final drive belt.

    for another, harleys don't come from the factory with primary drive belts. that picture is of an aftermarket conversion. in other words, the chain drive was electively removed in favor of a belt. lots of custom and performance builders go this route because belts are smoother, require less maintenance, and look cool - just like for bicycles.

    for another, it would stand to reason that an engine putting out 60-120hp would need a more robust belt to transfer power from the engine to the transmission (primary drive belt) than would be needed for a human putting out less than .5 hp to transfer power from the cranks to the rear wheel.

    for yet another, due to the advances in belt technology many of the newer harleys use 1" and even 20mm wide final drive belts. interesting when considering the gates cdx system for bicycles uses a 12mm belt.

    so in all actuality, the 12mm wide cycling belt for a .5hp (if that) application is FAR more robust for the application than a 20mm final drive belt for a 60hp application.

    so yeah... it's a good comparison, my man.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Welnic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    861
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost_03 View Post
    I agree, but I would probably say look at the torque and not the power. I would think that spinning a belt fast--power--would not stress a belt as much as tensile forces--torque. Regardless, the comparison still holds as you're looking at around 100 ft lbs at high RPM on a 20mm-40mm belt vs maybe 50-60 ft lbs at low RPM on a 12mm belt. Plus the motorcycle belt has to contend with engine vibrations, engine movement, parasitics of the belt tensioner, etc. The bicycle belt has to deal with frame flex and maybe off center chainri...uhm...beltrings?
    So your just off the cuff guess is that a Harley has about twice the torque of a cyclist?

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    290
    Quote Originally Posted by Welnic View Post
    So your just off the cuff guess is that a Harley has about twice the torque of a cyclist?
    Yes. The difference is that the Harley spins with that amount of torque at 5k+ RPM, while the cyclist spins at ~100 RPM, so the Harley is making WAY more power, but not WAY more torque.

    You don't have to take my word for it. Harley Davidson publishes torque specs and 100 is pretty common for them I think, and even on the high side for some motorcycles. Pro rider torque specs aren't necessarily measured, but if I'm standing with all of my 160 lbs on a 175mm crank (and not even pulling up on the handlebars) some basic math will show that that is 44.8 ft lbs.
    '12 Santa Cruz Superlight 29 | '12 Santa Cruz Butcher | '06 Specialized Allez Comp | '81 Schwinn Converted Fixie

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Welnic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    861
    Yes, the engine generates about 100 ft/lbs of torque. But that goes through the primary drive into the transmission, and then from the transmission to the belt drive. Both of those gear the power down, which decreases rpm and multiplies torque. So in first gear the belt drive has about around 600-700 ft/lbs being transmitted through it.

  31. #31
    Rogue Exterminator
    Reputation: kjlued's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4,956
    I love my Spot Honey Badger and the belt is spot on (pun intended).

    No regrets with the belt drive and my riding conditions are some of the most difficult on the east cost. I live in Western NC (Pisgah National Forrest, Bent Creek, DuPont State Forest)
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  32. #32
    Rogue Exterminator
    Reputation: kjlued's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4,956
    BTW, I have getting close to 1000 miles on my Spot with zero issues and zero maintenance on my belt from day 1.

    Belts are more expensive than chains but supposedly last longer.
    Also I look at all the money I save on cleaners and chain lube over the life of the belt.
    I don't carry a spare belt with me as I am not really that worried about braking it.
    Maybe one day it will bite me in the ass.

    Most the bad opinions on belts are from those who had the old system or have never had one but there will be a few people that insist theirs is set up right but have had nothing but problems.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    290
    Quote Originally Posted by Welnic View Post
    Yes, the engine generates about 100 ft/lbs of torque. But that goes through the primary drive into the transmission, and then from the transmission to the belt drive. Both of those gear the power down, which decreases rpm and multiplies torque. So in first gear the belt drive has about around 600-700 ft/lbs being transmitted through it.
    I assumed we were talking about primary drive belts off a crankshaft as thats what was in the photo posted, and more akin to what I am used to with the cvt belt in snowmobiles which connects a clutch directly on the crankshaft to the track. Certainly a transmission being involved changes things.

    Regardless, upon investigating it appears that primary belts are usually wider than final drive belts (which i actually didnt know existed), so I guess more torque does not directly translate to a wider belt. Ya got me.

    Anyway, back on topic, another reason I want a belt drive bike is so I dont have to deal with as much grease/lube/stickiness/etc. Grease is one of my least favorite parts of bikes, cars, etc.
    '12 Santa Cruz Superlight 29 | '12 Santa Cruz Butcher | '06 Specialized Allez Comp | '81 Schwinn Converted Fixie

  34. #34
    psycho cyclo addict
    Reputation: edubfromktown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2,255
    I am contemplating checking one out because I acquired a custom steel frame that comes with S&S couplers and a "belt ring".

    Ollie Whalley won the 2,740 mi Tour Divide running one a couple of years back (he changed belts part way into it and said it was easier than installing a new chain).

    On the flip side:

    I have a 7-speed chain on a bike installed in 1995 that shows no signs of quitting anytime soon. I typically get ~1k miles out of single speed chains (Nashbar cheapy 8-speed) and more miles out of Shimano XT/XTR 9-speed ones that are on my other 29er's.

    Whipperman White Star 108 chains are a lot beefier/stiffer than typical single speed MTB chains.
    【ツ】 eDub 【ツ】

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Welnic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    861
    I think that the primary belt is wider because it can be, it doesn't have the restrictions on its width like the tire and all of that other stuff between the transmission output and the rear wheel. The primary is a perfect place for a chain since it runs in an enclosed oil bath. The newest Harley engines use gears instead of a chain.

    Having ridden both motorcycles and bicycles for many years I had a good feel for how much more torque motorcycles have at the rear wheel, so it was interesting to me to figure out where that extra torque comes from considering the actual torque of the engine.

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PoisonDartFrog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    656
    So, to summarize:

    Cons:
    Limited to single speed
    Need a special frame
    Non-repairable if it breaks, must be entirely replaced

    Pros:
    Slightly more efficient than a chain (debatable)
    Slightly less maintenance than a chain
    Novelty factor
    Mind your own religion.

  37. #37
    Neg reppers r my biatches
    Reputation: FoShizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17,248
    why? just like carbon...and 29er wheel size...and 650b....and suspension.....and hydraulic brakes....absolutely no reason whatsoever other than MARKETING and thank goodness for companies that retardation runs rampant in the MTB community.

    there is nothing better about any of the aforementioned dynamics, to include belt drives, other than to pose a little better at the trailhead to compensate for your insecurities.

    the only radical improvement in the entire MTB market that is tangible is a gravity dropper post.

  38. #38
    4 Niners
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,113
    Less efficient than a chain especially the newest incarnation.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  39. #39
    4 Niners
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,113
    And not really debatable, since Gates admits this.
    Full rigid SS, Hardtail SS, Hardtail Geared, Full Suspension Geared.

  40. #40
    Clueless Bastard
    Reputation: WA-CO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    683
    Having owned a first generation gates belt bike, my evaluation could be summarized as a novel idea, but the ability to execute well was very limited. I liked the super clean drivetrain, and lack of noise, and the promise of increased lifespan.

    However when all is said and done, I'd be hard pressed to do it again. Perhaps a world touring Rohloff bike might be a great application for belt technology. Or today's stage 5 of the tour.

  41. #41
    blet drive
    Reputation: JUNGLEKID5's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    2,152
    love the set up on my xxix. yes it took some time to get it set up properly but man is it smooth. I have had 4 years of hard new England riding on it and still going strong..
    Save a tree & wipe your butt with an owl.
    Thank your local Sierra Club.

  42. #42
    meh... whatever
    Reputation: monogod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,302
    Quote Originally Posted by Welnic View Post
    The newest Harley engines use gears instead of a chain.
    nope.

    victory and indians do. but not harleys.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Welnic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    861
    The Harley Davidson Revolution engine, which is in their V-Rod motorcycles, uses gears instead of chains for the primary drive.

    2014 V-Rod Muscle | VRSCF Drag Motorcycle | Harley-Davidson USA

    As an aside, I have a engine which has 650 ft/lbs of torque at 2900 rpms and and weighs about 480 lbs.

  44. #44
    Neg reppers r my biatches
    Reputation: FoShizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17,248
    Quote Originally Posted by Welnic View Post
    The Harley Davidson Revolution engine, which is in their V-Rod motorcycles, uses gears instead of chains for the primary drive.

    2014 V-Rod Muscle | VRSCF Drag Motorcycle | Harley-Davidson USA

    As an aside, I have a engine which has 650 ft/lbs of torque at 2900 rpms and and weighs about 480 lbs.
    not relevant, v-rods are not even harleys. they have zero street cred and SOA would never consider them a harley and thats good enough for me

  45. #45
    meh... whatever
    Reputation: monogod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,302
    Quote Originally Posted by Welnic
    The newest Harley engines use gears instead of a chain.
    Quote Originally Posted by monogod
    nope.

    victory and indians do. but not harleys.
    Quote Originally Posted by Welnic View Post
    The Harley Davidson Revolution engine, which is in their V-Rod motorcycles, uses gears instead of chains for the primary drive.

    2014 V-Rod Muscle | VRSCF Drag Motorcycle | Harley-Davidson USA

    As an aside, I have a engine which has 650 ft/lbs of torque at 2900 rpms and and weighs about 480 lbs.
    that would be a great point except for the fact that's not harley's newest engine. the revolution was introduced over 12 years ago and was only used in one model until a variant was used in the street 750 and 500. ALL the rest have had and continue to use chain driven primary, including harley's NEWEST engine - the project rushmore.

    as an aside, that sounds like a fun ride.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Welnic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    861
    Thanks for the info. I haven't paid attention to motorcycles for a while, I was just poking around on their site looking for torque info. I just knew that it had more "modern" features than the Harley engines I knew about, so I assumed it was the newest.

    The engine I have has two push rod driven valves per cylinder. It is a technological marvel.

  47. #47
    meh... whatever
    Reputation: monogod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,302
    meh, no worries. i discover new stuff all the time too. a day without learning is a day wasted.

    my harley has the same. but then again, so does a chevy small block. so you gonna keep teasing and being vague or give a little more insight into this mystery motor of yours?
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  48. #48
    meh... whatever
    Reputation: monogod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,302
    Quote Originally Posted by Bimmer74 View Post
    I was aware of belt-drive when I was into motorcycles.

    One big quibble: IIRC, belts fall down when they're exposed to dirt/grit/mud. Any grit between the belt and pulleys makes them act like sandpaper on each other.

    Again, just IIRC, but this is why you never, ever see belt drive on dirt bikes – they're on tourers and cruisers.

    Why somebody would think that they would do well on a MTB, I don't understand...
    well, not the sole reason. there's also the aspect of tension. easier to keep spec belt tension with 2-5" of travel than with 10-14".

    be that as it may, they do very well on a MTB even in muddy, sloppy conditions.

    dirt/sand/grit doesn't build up in the cdx belt as it is a self-cleaning design. the cdx system is a proven system in all conditions that doesn't disintegrate itself due to sandpaper effect.

    i've got enough faith in it due to its proven performance that i plan on riding the great divide on a belt drive ss or igh either next year or in '16 so we'll see how that works out. flawlessly, i suspect.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jkidd_39's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    939
    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    i have two spot brand bikes now, a rocker and HB, am in the process of building a cream, and also recently converted a karate monkey ops to belt drive (with nothing more than a hacksaw).
    Pics please?!

    A man willing to customize a frame with a hacksaw is someone that needs to be taking lots of pics..

    I like your style sir!

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Welnic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    861
    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    meh, no worries. i discover new stuff all the time too. a day without learning is a day wasted.

    my harley has the same. but then again, so does a chevy small block. so you gonna keep teasing and being vague or give a little more insight into this mystery motor of yours?
    It's made in Russia and works as well upside down as right side up. And looking at just the engine it is hard to tell which way is right side up.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. belt drive
    By JUNGLEKID5 in forum Singlespeed
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-14-2013, 05:30 PM
  2. Belt drive?
    By slopok in forum Singlespeed
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-08-2013, 08:46 PM
  3. Belt Drive
    By Graham77 in forum Fat bikes
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 03-06-2013, 08:21 AM
  4. MTB Belt Drive CVT..........Please?
    By NEPMTBA in forum Drivetrain - shifters, derailleurs, cranks
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-05-2012, 01:28 PM
  5. I'm DONE with Belt Drive!
    By drMP in forum Singlespeed
    Replies: 68
    Last Post: 04-30-2011, 11:29 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •