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  1. #1
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    Jones steel diamond frame or Canfield Nimble 9

    I know they're not directly comparable - however, having got a Paradox I am appreciating the slacker ha/short stays in woodsy, rooty singletrack. I am going to keep my O-O ti 29er for longer days/endurance events and have a second bike to cover same riding as paradox.

    Paradox is great but riding it exclusively ss and would prefer steel so Nimble 9 the obvious choice. However strangely tempted by the production Jones diamond frame. It's geometry is meant to be great for that type of riding - difficult getting ride reports though.

    N9 I would run with my current Rebas, obviously Jones rigid (very used to rigid as all I've ridden until recently).

    Any thoughts?

  2. #2
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    [QUOTE=Clink]I know they're not directly comparable - however, having got a Paradox I am appreciating the slacker ha/short stays in woodsy, rooty singletrack. I am going to keep my O-O ti 29er for longer days/endurance events and have a second bike to cover same riding as paradox.

    Paradox is great but riding it exclusively ss and would prefer steel so Nimble 9 the obvious choice. However strangely tempted by the production Jones diamond frame. It's geometry is meant to be great for that type of riding - difficult getting ride reports though.

    N9 I would run with my current Rebas, obviously Jones rigid (very used to rigid as all I've ridden until recently).

    Any thoughts?[/QUOT

    Thats a tough one. I have been looking at those same frames and I am going with the nimble 9 due to its adaptability with different forks and better single speed tensioning system IMO. The Jones would be cool too though.

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    Reassuringto know someone else with similar thoughts! CS on N9 can go signifiantly shorter too.

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    I think the Jones CS is 17.5", at least I think they are on my friends Ti Diamond frame (which surprised me).

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    17 to 17.5" apparently.

  6. #6
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    It isn't just the CS length on a Jones, you have to factor in everything else in the geometry to make an informed decision.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgerat
    It isn't just the CS length on a Jones, you have to factor in everything else in the geometry to make an informed decision.
    Can you explain?

  8. #8
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    I cannot, Jeff can though. Most of the stuff that he came up with has been used by other builders at this point. It has to do with fork offset and angles and "stuff".

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clink

    Any thoughts?
    I think both are cool bikes.

    Thoughts/differences: (am assuming the geometry on the Nimble 9 will be the same as the Yelli Screamy with the exception of shorter stays.)

    The Jones is non-suspension corrected and you will need to ride it rigid only. It will work best with the Jones fork since it has the correct offset although I guess some production 26" forks would also fit it, they have at least 10-17mm less offset and that will change things significantly in the steering dept. Anyway, you will need to purchase a Jones frame and fork which is $750 for the diamond with two blade fork, and $1100 for the diamond and truss fork. In addition, the Jones fork only uses 135mm spacing on the front hub, so you will also be paying for a new front wheel. The fork can either take a 29", or fat front set up.

    If you compare both bikes ridden rigid, I believe the longer head tube and shorter fork A-C used on the Jones means it will be less flexy (all things equal) than the shorter HT, longer fork legs on the Nimble 9. I bounced on a Jones with truss fork in a parking lot and it was pretty impressive in the stiffness department.

    Jones only comes in one size, 23" ETT. He also uses a slacker STA. This means that for a given ETT, Reach will be less. When sitting the bike will feel equivalent to a small Nimble 9, but when standing, the Nimble 9 will be roomier.

    Nimble 9: you can pick your geometry based on fork length and they will take pretty much any 29" corrected rigid fork or suspension fork.

    Jones chainstays are nearly an inch longer.

    Jones wheelbase will be about the same as a medium Nimble 9, but the Nimble 9 will have your weight a little further biased to the rear when standing, and a little more biased toward the front when seated.

    If you want to get into a frame cheap and use your other parts for the build with no compatibility issues, go with the Nimble 9.

    If you think you will ever want a suspension fork, go Nimble 9.

    If you want a fine dedicated rigid bike, and don't care about paying at least twice as much to get into it (frame + fork + wheel), go Jones.

    If you have the cash, get both and report back.

    PS: as an addendum, my By:Stickel has near identical geometry to the Nimble 9 and it rides great.
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  10. #10
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    If you have the cash, get both and report back.
    I wish! Great reply though, thanks.

    I was aware of the need for the new front wheel with the Jones - presume a Pauls hub? The shorter tt worries me slightly too. The NImble 9 is the safe bet for sure - pity I can't demo either of them!

  11. #11
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    Seems risky to buy a Jones. It's a package deal, and if you don't like part of the package you basically have to sell the whole bike, or learn to adapt over time. I would have to demo one first for sure. The last time I bought a "whole package" type of bike it turned out bad. I like being able to swap parts and configure a set up that works for me. One frame size, one fork, one handlebar, and one build for everyone.

  12. #12
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    "Risky" one of my all-time favorite words. The main reason I went with the Jones is because it is nearly exactly the dimensions a custom would be for me. Aqua is 6'400" or something and he rides one with a 23" ETT, he has a custom Jones and a Wolfhound as well. I really don't have a frame of reference for how it works because mine is not here yet. It would be hard for me to buy the concepts if the frame was not exactly the size I need.
    Isaac

  13. #13
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    What is your height edgerat?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgerat
    "Risky" one of my all-time favorite words. The main reason I went with the Jones is because it is nearly exactly the dimensions a custom would be for me. Aqua is 6'400" or something and he rides one with a 23" ETT, he has a custom Jones and a Wolfhound as well. I really don't have a frame of reference for how it works because mine is not here yet. It would be hard for me to buy the concepts if the frame was not exactly the size I need.
    Isaac
    Awesome. Which bars are you going with?

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    I took a leap of faith and bought a Ti Spaceframe (Merlin) - no regrets here It rides very well. The steel geo is the same - so the ride will be very similar.....I would have thought. I nearly bought a Steel Diamond but there was not enough standover. I'd go for a Steel Diamond with a truss fork.

    One question -can you get 2.55" tyres into the nimble 9 ?

  16. #16
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    One question -can you get 2.55" tyres into the nimble 9 ?[/QUOTE]

    Yep-- 2.55 are no problem on either the Nimble 9 or the Yelli Screamy.

  17. #17
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    I am 5'6" in stocking feet with a 30" inseam. My favorite fitting bikes are the small-size Niner's and after a couple different fittings over the years I have determined that 23" ETT is perfect for me. My beef with the Niner was BB height, and I always felt like I was WAY off the ground on the really technical trails with tight switch-backs. The Jones has a low BB of 11.5"(if I remember right) and that should help with that high feeling.

    I have a couple different bars to test out. I ordered the loop bar in aluminium, a black sheep mountain mustache at 29" with 32mm of rise, and then several standard bars from 30" and down with as much rise as 50mm down to flat. I am really hoping that this bike is everything that Jeff says it is. I want to develop a kind of relationship with a bike and not keep shuffling through bikes every month or so. I plan on running the 2.55 Weirwolf on the back and the phatty on the front with a Larry.
    Since June I have been through the following bikes:
    Norco Faze (100mm full sus)
    Niner Air9
    Niner Jet9
    VooDoo Soukri
    Salsa Ala Carte(setup as a 650b SS rigid)
    Lynskey Ridgeline rigid SS
    Norco Fluid 1

    The Jet9 is the only bike I wish I hadn't sold. If I cross my fingers any harder for the Spaceframe to work, I will probably break my fingers.

    To come back full circle, I think if you plan on running rigid the Jones would be the hot setup, if you want more of an AM 29er the Canfield would be a better choice. That being said, I have never ridden either of them but, this is what I gather just looking at the geo of them.
    Isaac

  18. #18
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    edgerat - I'm 5'8" with a 29.5" inseam - mine fits me well.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Jones steel diamond frame or Canfield Nimble 9-reducedlarry.jpg  


  19. #19
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    Thanks for all the feedback so far. Trying to track one down in the UK to try. In the meantime anything else from anyone with some time on one??

  20. #20
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    Clink.

    If you go for the Jones I know where there's a 100mm Ti truss fork waiting to be used again.

    You're more than welcome to try my spaceframe out when ever you want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by singlespeedstu
    Clink.

    If you go for the Jones I know where there's a 100mm Ti truss fork waiting to be used again.

    You're more than welcome to try my spaceframe out when ever you want.
    Thanks for that. Presume the 100mm truss would fit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clink
    Thanks for that. Presume the 100mm truss would fit?
    All Jeff's forks fit his frames since he always uses the same HT lengths. The only thing the 100mm truss won't fit is a fat front.

  23. #23
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    I really want to try a Jones before I die. Beautiful
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  24. #24
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    Thread resurrection!

    Having bought a Yelli Screamy I'm sold on slack ha/short chainstay thing.

    But the Y-S is 1x9 and I miss ss. So back to Nimble 9/Jones comparison. Thinking of the N9 with a 480mm Singular steel fork, BUT intrigued by any ride reports on the production Jones diamond frame. Jones seems heavy too.

  25. #25
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    But the Y-S is 1x9 and I miss ss.
    Have you tried the Y-S with 32 x 21 magic gearing no chain tensioner?

  26. #26
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    Have you tried the Y-S with 32 x 21 magic gearing no chain tensioner?
    No - but I normally run 32x18 so it doesn't sound like a suitable gear...

  27. #27
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    Try the Arizona thread. I think Enel bought a Jones Steel diamond frame and posted a good review on it.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by azjonboy
    Try the Arizona thread. I think Enel bought a Jones Steel diamond frame and posted a good review on it.
    thanks - I'll have a look

  29. #29
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    Having ridden a Jones as well as a paradox briefly, and being a fan of easily hopped / manualled bikes, i can say one thing about the Jones - don't judge it on chainstay dimensions. The short WB and FC of the Jones makes it easy to 'pop' or hop, it suprised me for a bike with a low bb and longer stays. But the shorter front end dims mean you can get a lot of leverage over it when you go to hop stuff. It feels pretty 'floaty' over rollers etc to me. Longer stays also keep that short front down when climbing. The rearward weight bias gives it a very different feel to other bikes.

    I'm 6ft and like a compact XC type of fit, the Jones does feel short-ish but in a good way. Short when you need that, but simply comfy when you may want a stretch on other bikes. The bars help extend the fit when you want to stretch out.

    The Jones is more of a paradox than a Paradox itself .. ) It certainly can't be judged from numbers that work on more conventional bikes.

  30. #30
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    You only live once, Clink. Take the risk.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by james-o
    Having ridden a Jones as well as a paradox briefly, and being a fan of easily hopped / manualled bikes, i can say one thing about the Jones - don't judge it on chainstay dimensions. The short WB and FC of the Jones makes it easy to 'pop' or hop, it suprised me for a bike with a low bb and longer stays.
    Indeed.



    My stays measure 16.9" center to center, so not really that long.

    Quote Originally Posted by clink
    So back to Nimble 9/Jones comparison. Thinking of the N9 with a 480mm Singular steel fork, BUT intrigued by any ride reports on the production Jones diamond frame. Jones seems heavy too.
    I bought the Jones on a lark and love it. Personally, I feel it completely outclasses my Nimble 9 geo clone By:Stickel as a rigid bike. It has to do with the package of a burly frame with near perfect "rigid AM" geometry, a matched, stiff rigid fork, widely spaced 135 front hub, and long dedicated rigid head tube.

    I recommend the Jones over the Nimble 9 if:

    1. You only want to ride rigid and never will consider a suspension fork for this bike.
    2. It fits you.
    3. You can afford the package which is a minimum of $750 for frame/fork, in addition you will need a new headset and 135 front hub/wheelbuild. All that stuff adds up in this purchase and needs to be considered.
    4. You want a bike that is actually currently available.

    The Nimble is preferable if you want a hardtail, and I imagine everything you currently own will bolt right over to the current frame.

    And yes, the Jones is heavy.
    Last edited by Enel; 05-21-2011 at 08:33 AM.
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  32. #32
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    I was in a similar quandry, but Enel has the right qualifiers. I decided to wait for the N9 for the versatility. This will be my only mountain bike, one that I'll race 100 milers on, one that I'll ride short, really techy fock garden rides, one that will be my training and play bike.
    I'll mostly ride with a Fox F29 100mm since I'm getting a bit older and need my wrists happy for my work, but plan on setting up an Enabler with a fat front for play days.
    Answer Enel's questions as honestly as you can for yourself, and let that guide you.
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    Singlespeedstu,

    If Clink did not get that 100mm Jones Truss Fork I'm interested if it's still available.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stryker2 View Post
    Singlespeedstu,

    If Clink did not get that 100mm Jones Truss Fork I'm interested if it's still available.
    I didn't take it (in the end ) but somebody else did...

  35. #35
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    I've got a 100mm truss fork I want to sell. It's for a 150mm head tube. (For the 24" top tube Jones size)

  36. #36
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    Pacerider,

    send me an email so we can explore this further.

  37. #37
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    Back from the dead.

    I have a N9 which I love. Setup with a short stem (80mm), 20mm setback post, and wide(ish) bars. Short wheelbase, short stays, I think the weight is biased towards the rear, and the bike feels great in both fast stuff and slow chunky stuff.

    I want a Jones, but I'm wondering if a set of Jones bars would be a smarter investment. I know there is a lot more to the Jones than the bar.

    I guess what I'm asking is there a way to approximate what Jeff is doing with other frames?

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob1035 View Post
    Back from the dead.

    I have a N9 which I love. Setup with a short stem (80mm), 20mm setback post, and wide(ish) bars. Short wheelbase, short stays, I think the weight is biased towards the rear, and the bike feels great in both fast stuff and slow chunky stuff.

    I want a Jones, but I'm wondering if a set of Jones bars would be a smarter investment. I know there is a lot more to the Jones than the bar.

    I guess what I'm asking is there a way to approximate what Jeff is doing with other frames?
    If you want to try Jones bars, you might consider getting the Soma Clarence bar in 31.8. It has the closest geometric numbers to the loop bar, but can be found cheap for around $50. I researched all the alt bars for a thread in the 29er parts forum. The Soma bar is very close. I don't know that you can approximate most of what Jeff does with bars only though. And I'm not sure I've seen other frames that are remotely close to what Jones is doing, but maybe others will chime in.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    I don't know that you can approximate most of what Jeff does with bars only though. And I'm not sure I've seen other frames that are remotely close to what Jones is doing, but maybe others will chime in.

    I definitely get that; but I guess my question is what exactly is Jones doing differently?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob1035 View Post
    I definitely get that; but I guess my question is what exactly is Jones doing differently?
    Shame you moved up to MD - I would've let you take a spin on my Jones out at WWC Dad2TnR from THTB site).

    I've gone trough a number of HT and rigid 29ers (mostly steel) in the last couple of years and the Jones diamond frame is without a doubt the most fun of them all. As others have said, it is the totality of the "system" that Jeff has created that gives the bike its unique ride. The HT and ST angle are fairly relaxed, sliding the rider back over the rear wheel, the from fork offset (55mm) slides the front wheel forward more, the low BB puts you more "in" the bike, the 135mm front hub makes an amazing difference in the stiffness of the front end of the bike, and the handlebars really let you move back on the bike on the downhills, or move forward on the uphills.

    Will the handlebars get you the Jones feel? Not likely, but they will help some. It's worth a try. Though they're not made anymore, the Titec J-bar would be the cheapest alternative. Otherwise, I think Jones is taking pre-orders for the Loop bar now.
    Enjoy the ride!

  41. #41
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    I'll be in CLT this weekend, planning on hitting up WWC either Sat or Sun AM

    Makes total sense about the "system"

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    Quote Originally Posted by rob1035 View Post
    I'll be in CLT this weekend, planning on hitting up WWC either Sat or Sun AM

    Makes total sense about the "system"
    You're riding Robbie's N9, right? What size is that? I might be interested in swapping for a lap on Saturday morning. Shoot me a PM if interested.
    Enjoy the ride!

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    I don't know that you can approximate most of what Jeff does with bars only though. And I'm not sure I've seen other frames that are remotely close to what Jones is doing, but maybe others will chime in.
    The original Salsa Fargo (non suspension corrected) in large has similar ETT to the Jones. With an alt bar it gives that in the bike feeling and lets the rider grip light on the handlebars when it gets rough. It has longer chain stays, seat tube, head tube and stand over and is not going to be as fun as the Jones.
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba13 View Post
    The original Salsa Fargo (non suspension corrected) in large has similar ETT to the Jones. With an alt bar it gives that in the bike feeling and lets the rider grip light on the handlebars when it gets rough. It has longer chain stays, seat tube, head tube and stand over and is not going to be as fun as the Jones.
    IIRC, the head tube and seat tube angles on the Gen1 Fargo are the same as the Jones too.
    Enjoy the ride!

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    I bought the Jones on a lark and love it. Personally, I feel it completely outclasses my Nimble 9 geo clone By:Stickel as a rigid bike.
    Who cloned who? I think you've got it reversed Enel. Steve was doing short stayed 29ers well before Canfield or pretty much anyone else big company or custom builders alike.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG View Post
    Who cloned who? I think you've got it reversed Enel. Steve was doing short stayed 29ers well before Canfield or pretty much anyone else big company or custom builders alike.
    I think Enel spec'd all the geo for his By:Stickle

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG View Post
    Who cloned who? I think you've got it reversed Enel. Steve was doing short stayed 29ers well before Canfield or pretty much anyone else big company or custom builders alike.
    And I think Enel was using the term "cloned" in order to pay respects to the OP who was wanting to compare the Jones to the N9. Enel hadn't ridden the N9, but his custom bike was very similar. And besides, this thread is old.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonesetter2004 View Post
    I think Enel spec'd all the geo for his By:Stickle
    True, but Steve had some input, and the numbers ended up very close to a Med N9

    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    Steve was doing short stayed 29ers well before Canfield or pretty much anyone else big company or custom builders alike.
    No argument about that. Is Steve doing anything bike related right now?
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob1035 View Post
    I definitely get that; but I guess my question is what exactly is Jones doing differently?
    Hey Rob, this may be of some use to you:

    My bike. What is it? August 2012 - YouTube

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