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  1. #1
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    It's in! Schwalbe Black Shark 622/47 28x1.85/1.90

    Found a box with 3 of them on my doormat.

    Shiggy-style specification, 40psi on Dyad rim :
    Schwalbe Black Shark Spezial, for both front and rear
    38,5mm carcass width
    37,0mm carcass height + 3,0mm thread depth
    45mm knob width
    6,0mm thread depth on profile edge.
    635g average of 3, all very close or on that mark.
    Steel bead

    I bought this tire in hope it will be a good mud tire, so provide lots of traction and shedding most goo off.
    Normally I want tires to be as wide as possible, but this time I'm very happy with how it looks. My best 26" mud tire was always the Black Shark MUD 1.5", and this one only seems to be a bit wider than that. Knob shapes is very different, though. The MUD has very small square knobs, this one has larger, pointier klaws.

    I'll try post a picture of the tread when I find it again. Post to test them in the mud soon, lots of that here, just no daylight or time. For this weekend's crono tour through the woods, I may opt for other tires. If these are perfect for the conditions I'll be facing there for 55km, I feel like finding something else to do :-)
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  2. #2
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki
    Found a box with 3 of them on my doormat.

    Shiggy-style specification, 40psi on Dyad rim :
    Schwalbe Black Shark Spezial, for both front and rear
    38,5mm carcass width
    37,0mm carcass height + 3,0mm thread depth
    45mm knob width
    6,0mm thread depth on profile edge.
    635g average of 3, all very close or on that mark.
    Steel bead

    I bought this tire in hope it will be a good mud tire, so provide lots of traction and shedding most goo off.
    Normally I want tires to be as wide as possible, but this time I'm very happy with how it looks. My best 26" mud tire was always the Black Shark MUD 1.5", and this one only seems to be a bit wider than that. Knob shapes is very different, though. The MUD has very small square knobs, this one has larger, pointier klaws.

    I'll try post a picture of the tread when I find it again. Post to test them in the mud soon, lots of that here, just no daylight or time. For this weekend's crono tour through the woods, I may opt for other tires. If these are perfect for the conditions I'll be facing there for 55km, I feel like finding something else to do :-)
    Have you looked at the Black Jack 47-622? I want to get a set of the 700c version. I have a 26x2.10 Black Jack and it is not bad. I might try trimming the points off one side of the center blocks to make more of a paddle.

    The Black Shark you have is not in the 2005 catalog. Just the Black Shark Mud (26" only ).
    mtbtires.com
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  3. #3
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    Hey Shiggy,
    I looked at it, and I'm sure it'll be a fine adventure tire tire, but I fear less a mud-specific one. From what I remember, it's got casings of around 44mm. Never tried one, though, but seen it stock on some hybrids.




    That's the Black Shark I got. I could easily take away all the smaller sideknobs to open things up a bit, but so far I can't figure out a nice way to invlove any center knobs in the chopping plans. The tire might shed mud well enough as-is, of with just half the sideknobs chopped.
    All knobs are larger at the base than on the top, more so than I'm used to. That helps in mud, right?

    What would you say about this Black Shark, judging from the pic?
    I wonder if the rear direction even makes much sense.

    I Paid €14.99 at www.bicycles.de , only place I ever saw them. the SPEZIAL on the sidewall might mean it's some sort of OEM version, I clueless.

    May the mud be with you,

    J

    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    Have you looked at the Black Jack 47-622? I want to get a set of the 700c version. I have a 26x2.10 Black Jack and it is not bad. I might try trimming the points off one side of the center blocks to make more of a paddle.

    The Black Shark you have is not in the 2005 catalog. Just the Black Shark Mud (26" only ).
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  4. #4
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki
    Hey Shiggy,
    I looked at it, and I'm sure it'll be a fine adventure tire tire, but I fear less a mud-specific one. From what I remember, it's got casings of around 44mm. Never tried one, though, but seen it stock on some hybrids.




    That's the Black Shark I got. I could easily take away all the smaller sideknobs to open things up a bit, but so far I can't figure out a nice way to invlove any center knobs in the chopping plans. The tire might shed mud well enough as-is, of with just half the sideknobs chopped.
    All knobs are larger at the base than on the top, more so than I'm used to. That helps in mud, right?

    What would you say about this Black Shark, judging from the pic?
    I wonder if the rear direction even makes much sense.

    I Paid €14.99 at www.bicycles.de , only place I ever saw them. the SPEZIAL on the sidewall might mean it's some sort of OEM version, I clueless.

    May the mud be with you,

    J
    That looks pretty good as is. I would not remove any knobs. They could be modified like this:
    Attached Images Attached Images
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  5. #5
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    Thanks, I never looked at it that way, removing parts of knobs. Your method sure opens it up nicely, with plenty of knob spread left.
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  6. #6
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    Hmmm

    Looks like an interesting tyre! Might not work to well in really sticky mud / clay but for sloppy-conditions it might just be ideal!

    .....and it should fit in the new 28er!

    SSP
    "Put any one on one of these singlespeed bikes and they could not help but have fun"
    -
    Otis Guy talking about klunkers c1976

  7. #7
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    It looks promising to me, the knobs seem to have a smart shape for shedding mud, but indeed for the worst of clay, which is like normal winter race conditions here, I may have to open up the tread a bit more. On thing seems pretty sure, rolling resistance should be much lower than with a Black Shark Mud, also worth something.
    In a 28" adventurebike you might want a narrower tire for clay for sure, as the 45mm of the outer knobs is already pushing it for every less than a full-on 29"er.
    How the 28"er coming along?
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  8. #8
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    First ride report, today.
    Scene : cross race with MTB class, just 6 miles from my home. I left on my Karate Monkey with the 34-16t still on there from the last race I did on it, and spinned myself warm on the way there. On dry pavement, they steering is very direct. Seemed as if it was more agressive than with 2.1's. Throwing your weight in a 90º (moist) pavement corner makes them feel like real mud tires, quite vague and uncertain, good reason to keep the fingers on the rear brake or even feather it.

    The course was flat, apart from a staircase, a 4-5m tall Dyke we rode over tarmac, and a few ditches to cross. Mostly grass and bushes, over clayey soil with groundwater never far away. One irritating, too long bit over a pedestrian's path covered in seashells, which came right after the most clayey section.

    I feared that the loooong tarmac section towards the finish would cost me time, but I turned out to spin-coast faster there than competitors were prepared to push their fancy geared mtb's. The mud was my problem, 34-16t felt quite silly throughout most of the course. Not sure if it was the tires or the gearing, but the bike worked better above 10mph than under. Hard to get any speed in, working my way over devastated grass. Lack of recent rain and ~5ºC made the soil very thick and tacky, I've seen it wetter and faster there before.
    I was sleeping when people started lining up for the start, but ound a sport on the grass next to the tarmac. Was more awake when the whistle cam, and in the first corner was around 8th. In the opening laps, I rode through one of the ditches, which seemed helped me while others dismounted.
    Lots some places and won some, but stayed top-10. Really felt I had not been offroad for some time, pushing that gear through the mud was tiring and less fun than I imagined up front.

    Then, on one ditch I before always rode...the front wheel this time decided to sink through the mud in stead of roll over as usual, and I actually ENDO'ed. First time that ever happened to me on the Km, after almost 2 years. Gearie 26"er were wheelying through or running, my tall gear and tired body kept the front wheel low there. I crawled up, and wandered on.

    The tires never seemed to really slide anywhere, too big knobs for theis course? I sure seemed that way. Too thick mud, or too big knobs. One moment, on the onlz singletrack of the course, which was a big mudfest, I realised I had hardly used the brakes yet. Next thing, I run a littel wide, towards a treee, and grap some brake. Front brake. And then yes, it managed to slide on me.

    The downhill from the dyke (dijk) was off-camber grass, with a turn in it. 26" riders had more trouble there. I sometimes ran a little wide, but kept some pace at least. On grass, these tires sure to hook up, and with confidence.

    In the race before us, the mud ripped of a derailer from someone's cross bike, SS was very nice for that, it's happened to me more than once also.

    On pavement, at least with the SS, I can't really say that these are slow rollers. Spin-coast also meant longish coasts, it seemed. I was doing very acceptable speeds on the finish straight.

    Throwing my front wheel over the one ditch where that was doable, the rear wheel really hit hard. Due to the low volume, I'm sure, and the fact that the wheels so perfectly matched the ditch, making it a perfect wheeltrap. The tall gearing meant I took long to get rolling again, and at one point, especially getting more tired, I decided to dismount there, and that seemed to be slightly quicker, even for my dorkily running me.

    Overall, I really am happy with these tires. I could sacrifice one of the 3 I got, and shave the knobs down a bit to improve rolling resistance in tacky stuff. The front just did what I wanted it to do, not sure if I should even try to improve on that. I bought them with mud in mind, and that they seem to handle very well, perhaps a bit too well for today.

    Lacking gears, I was unable to really test the climbing traction. On flat slippery stuff they hooked up so well, I think climbing should be close or equal to Black Shark Mud 1.5", which don't roll quite as nicely, and are more dangerous on pavement.

    With my geared bike, I finished between 4th and 8th on my 3 prior winter cross/mtb races, today with all the good riders present, I was 7th.
    These tires are to stay in my collection for sure. With chance of mud, I'll have to bring them to any race or ride. These wil SO kick azz if you manage to get them in a Cross-Check or adventure bike for combined forest/road rides, or the high-speed type arrowed rides we get here in the lowlands.

    Thanks for reading. Your turn to go on a ride, it's a nice day for it.

    J
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  9. #9
    mvi
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    gears

    I still can't believe you ride SS if you want to race. Even 1x7 would have made you competitive. On one of my cross bikes I put 1x9 with a XTR rapid rise derrailleur and gripshift (on my custom bar) and that bike NEVER refuses to shift. Mud, snow can not clog that up in 45 minutes. On top of that it shifts faster than any STI cross bike.
    BTW since I,m in the lowlands between christmas and new year, do you know if thre is a superprestige or so I can spectate?
    I might try to shop for one of those 26 " beach tires when I,m over. Are they Vredesteins?
    Thanks for reading,

  10. #10
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    There's a SuperPrestige in Diegem the 26th, I believe. If I manage to find transport there, I'll try to enter the main event, chase those 30-40 pro's aound the track for half an hour this the roles are reversed.

    *cough, cough* 26" fatty slicks?
    Ritchey Moby (rare, but real, black or grey)
    Vredestijn B-Each old skool FATTY 1100g (won't find) and new 660g (narrower 2.1 balloon)
    Schwalbe Big Apple 2.35" steel
    Schwalbe Big Apple 2.35" Light, folding Qualifier Compound
    Schwalbe SuperMoto 2.35" (Big Apple tread) Revolution, folding, tailwind type rolling resistance, ~600g
    There may be more. Not all shops have like a range of this stuff, though SuperMoto is almost common.
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  11. #11
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    Oh, and I rode SS just for the heck of it. I've had derailers ripped of my bikes in similar mud before, and feared even worse conditions than today's.
    In other MTB races, maybe a handful, where I competed against gearies, only once I was disappointed by my result, regardless of gears. A big national race June 2003, I was 13th where I would rate myself 7th with a race bike, and that was even a perfect race course, tough, fast, clean. As I had declared this race Dutch NationalSS, I went home with the exchange trophy another rider had made. The SSpecific riding style I felt forced to use, gave me pro's and cons, almost to balance my result in a 150+ field. Even after being overtaken by the 2-hour race leaders that had started 3mins behind us, I sometimes had to overtake them back, as at certain sections, both up and rolling downhill, I was forced to go faster.

    I'm totally for 3-speed (or in exceptions : 4spd) in racing, and that would sure have made a difference today. Thanks to my daily commutes probably, my straightline speed was really okay. In the worst mud and ditch-jumps, I would have welcomed a shorter gear to relieve the legs a bit better. Not sure it would have helped me score much better, but it would have been easier for sure. Only on semi-fast sections, I felt at ease.

    Once the surly stainless steel cogs hit the market, spaced to work with gears, I'll have to really start experimenting.

    29" tire content : I'll have to try 3-spd for 700c commuting and 29" racing. For the latter, this time not for kicks, but to look for an edge.
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

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