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  1. #2801
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    BTW Mrdirtherder thank you for that last post. Very interesting.

  2. #2802
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    Quote Originally Posted by iowamtb View Post
    The ETT length on my B side is actually longer than the ETT on my Wolvie (600/604 compared to 587). So I don't think drops would be an issue at all. The one big difference is the BB drop is huge between the 2 bikes (70 for the Wolvie and 46/39 for the B side).
    the longer top tube on your b-side is the reason why putting drop bars on it will be hard. drop bars lengthen the reach of your bike by quite a bit, which is why a bike that fits you with drop bars is much shorter than a bike that fits you with flat bars.

    put another way, if you put flat bars on your Wolverine, it would feel much shorter, probably too short.

    you might be able to mitigate this with a short length, high-rise stem.

    I don't know if these will work for the way your bike fits, but have you looked into Soma Gator bars?
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  3. #2803
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDirtHerder View Post
    Wow. New to this forum...
    Wow, great story and excellent links. I've just spent the last few hours reading all the stories in your links (not finished yet). Fascinating. I love the history and passion in these stories!!

    It makes me want to go for a 200 mile adventure on my SS cross bike, then come home and melt a credit card buying a ton of new frame building equipment. (One of those will happen for sure...)

    Thank you for your perspective, and for the info/history. Good stuff!
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  4. #2804
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    Quote Originally Posted by iowamtb View Post
    Sorry to hijack this thread but this is on the subject of turning my Soma B side into a monstercross so here goes.....
    So I recently did this with one of my XC hardtails. It was a little too small with a suspension fork and a flat handlebar. I forget exactly but roughly a 100mm ish stem, wasn't enough. I then put on a rigid fork and On One Midge handlebars with TRP Spyre brakes, 2.1's, and a short riser stem (70mm +25 degree, so it reaches up as much as out). I also had to use a large number of spacers under the stem to get the handlebars up high enough. The goal there was to make the primary riding position in the drops. I never got the handlebars that high and ended up with my hands on top of the hoods most of the time.

    Bottom line: it worked, kind of. The frame I used was an old school SS XC race frame with a really low stack height. A Jamis Dragon One SS. I can't quite get the handlebars high enough or close enough to me. Well, I probably could with a longer fork and another new stem, but I got what I wanted out of it... proof of concept. I really like it but I'd rather not invest a couple hundred bucks on a non-ideal setup I'm not sure I'll be happy with long term. I've got a few hundred miles on it and have enjoyed the setup. My plan is to sell the frame and buy a Soma Wolverine. Funny huh.

    As it turns out that frame is just a bit to small to be a perfect HT MTB, and just a bit too big to be a perfect Monstercross bike. Take as many measurements as you can before attempting a conversion. It may or may not work for you.
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  5. #2805
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    Thank you for the advice. Honestly as it’s set up now with the jones bars, i always said if big boom happened, it would be the bike of my choice. Like a mad max can do anything and pack anything machine. It’s just tough with all this eye candy floating around. It just makes me wish I owned a ton of inventory and could go out and change at will “just because”. My Wolvie rocks. My b side as it is now is my mad max firewood gathering machine lol!!!! I don’t even have the money now anyways just window shopping but I am sure this is going to pass soon.
    Last edited by iowamtb; 11-08-2017 at 05:21 AM.

  6. #2806
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    thanks @MrDirtHerder for the story!

  7. #2807
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    the longer top tube on your b-side is the reason why putting drop bars on it will be hard. drop bars lengthen the reach of your bike by quite a bit, which is why a bike that fits you with drop bars is much shorter than a bike that fits you with flat bars.

    put another way, if you put flat bars on your Wolverine, it would feel much shorter, probably too short.

    you might be able to mitigate this with a short length, high-rise stem.

    I don't know if these will work for the way your bike fits, but have you looked into Soma Gator bars?
    What u say makes sense but we are talking 587 to 600. 13 mm? Thats not enough to sneeze at is it? In general though I understand what u r saying. With my jones bars this bike has a 90 mm 30 degree Ritchey stem so the Jones bars are right at seat height.

  8. #2808
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDirtHerder View Post
    Anyway, sorry for the long rant. New to getting on this forum (or any) because of other injuries my local shop/friends can't answer and stumbled upon some monster cross threads. Seems like a lot of anger towards purists which is surprising, so thought I'd share some history.
    No worries really, thanks for all those details and the links, super interesting to read all that

    Quote Originally Posted by MrDirtHerder View Post
    He really was fascinated with the idea of such a bike because any short comings the bike had, a rider who honed their strength/skills could make up for.
    All is said!

  9. #2809
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    Quote Originally Posted by iowamtb View Post
    What u say makes sense but we are talking 587 to 600. 13 mm? Thats not enough to sneeze at is it? In general though I understand what u r saying. With my jones bars this bike has a 90 mm 30 degree Ritchey stem so the Jones bars are right at seat height.
    That might work. You will have to experiment.

    The ETT on every flat bar hardtail that fits me is in the neighborhood of 600-615mm. Drop bar bikes I have owned are all 540-550mm. Personally, I could never make a bike that fits with a flat bar work with a drop bar unless a ran the stem backwards!
    Last edited by mack_turtle; 11-08-2017 at 01:15 PM.
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  10. #2810
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    That might work. You will have to experiment.

    The ETT on every flat bar hardtail that fits me is in the neighborhood of 600-615mm. Drop bar bikes I have owned are all 540-550mm. Personally, I could never make a bike that fits with a flat bar work with a drop bar unless a ran the stem backwards!

    That explains it. We are different. My drop bar bikes have ETT lengths not a whole lot shorter than my mtb

  11. #2811
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    Quote Originally Posted by iowamtb View Post
    That explains it. We are different. My drop bar bikes have ETT lengths not a whole lot shorter than my mtb
    Just FYI it will be more accurate to compare the Reach number as opposed to ETT. I agree that the ability to use the same frame for both flat and drop handlebars is highly specific to the bike, the individual, and the intended setup.
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  12. #2812
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Just FYI it will be more accurate to compare the Reach number as opposed to ETT.
    True. however, not to derail the thread, but, reach and stack are related in such a way that one is almost meaningless without the other. you can't isolate reach.

    If the drop bar postion on your Wolverine feels just right, it would be worth plugging the numbers from your B-side and your Wolverine into bikegeo.net and see what it would take to make the effective S+R close enough.

    what length fork is on your B-side? Soma lists two numbers on their geometry to signify how two different length forks affect the geometry.
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  13. #2813
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    Quote Originally Posted by iowamtb View Post
    That explains it. We are different. My drop bar bikes have ETT lengths not a whole lot shorter than my mtb
    everyone is different, but I just juxtaposed two bikes that fit me, one with drop bars and the other with flat bars. I used to ride a Soma Double Cross Disc cyclocross bike. it had Salsa Cowbell bars and a 90mm stem pointed up with 25mm or so of spacers under it. that's the green bike. my Jabberwocky has wide, flat bars and a 70mm stem pointed down with 15mm or so of spacers on it.

    I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-dcd-jabber.jpg

    I find that the calculations on Bikegeo.net are pretty accurate. it shows that the stack on my Jabber is about 10mm higher, but the reach on the DCD was 50mm shorter. 5 centimeters or about 2 inches. that's a lot! those extra two inches are there because of the extra length of a drop bar.

    you might fit differently. maybe your frame is a little shorter on your than mine is for me, but generally, if a flat bar bike fits you well, that is why it's going to be hard to fit it with drop bars.
    Last edited by mack_turtle; 11-11-2017 at 07:59 PM.
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  14. #2814
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    Thanks for the oral history Mr DirtH. Made for a facinating read. Loved the passion for simplification. Except for the Powerstrap mention, but oh well.

  15. #2815
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    everyone is different, but I just juxtaposed two bikes that fit me, one with drop bars and the other with flat bars. I used to ride a Soma Double Cross Disc cyclocross bike. it had Salsa Cowbell bars and a 90mm stem pointed up with 25mm or so of spacers under it. that's the green bike. my Jabberwocky has wide, flat bars and a 70mm stem pointed down with 15mm or so of spacers on it.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I find that the calculations on Bikegeo.net are pretty accurate. it shows that the stack on my Jabber is about 10mm higher, but the reach on the DCD was 50mm shorter. 5 centimeters or about 2 inches. that's a lot! those extra two inches are there because of the extra length of a drop bar.

    you might fit differently. maybe your frame is a little shorter on your than mine is for me, but generally, if a flat bar bike fits you well, that is why it's going to be hard to fit it with drop bars.

    After a lengthy discussion with Jeff Jones I ordered some new 710 2.5 rise bars, new chunky grips and a shorter stem. So I ended my mental want for dirt drops on this bike. Can’t wait to see how this bike rides once it’s done!

  16. #2816
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    Fall single track. There’s a new flow trail nearby. The berms and jumps on the monster cross is the most fun I’ve had on a bike in quite a while.





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  17. #2817
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    Thanks. Glad you found it helpful and enjoyable to read. Kinda find it odd that we're on these forums to learn, yet people are being so negative about those telling the true story. It's like, sorry but aren't you on here to learn? Or just to post pics of your bike you don't ride?

    Likewise, when people get upset about facts we have a problem. Also interesting how in this thread, people say "what does it matter?" yet in another thread in another forum on here they'll argue over 2mm of rim width or a degree of handlebar sweep or that a top tube is 10mm too short. All valid arguments, but seems like when they get in the monstercross thread the logic goes to hell.

    I'm with you. History is fascinating and I've been drawn in more to the history of monstrcross over time thanks to the Monstercross News page on FB. It's really pretty fascinating when you delve into it, because it is the perfect do it all and "just ride" bike in it's original form. Plus when you get into Matt Chester's head reading his post on his blog you really develop an appreciation for what he was going after and why the narrow definition mattered because you can see it in his writings on unrelated topics.

    Here's to knowing our history. Thanks for the kind words.

  18. #2818
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    ^ My new Monstercross frame will be here in a few days! Found a good deal and couldn't resist after all the stoke from this thread. Looking forward to new adventures, might even have to try some Power Grips.
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  19. #2819
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    Hi!
    I am new to the forum and would like to share my recent build (cyclocross ? montercross? not sure of which label) : "La Mule" is its name
    I found an old 1999 Trek 720 MultiTrack that I rebuilt into an all-rounder bike (gravel, groceries/errands, touring, cross...)
    Today's ride was the perfect test with a 20-mile route combining gravel, trails and road.I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-img_2477.jpgI Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-img_2479.jpg

  20. #2820
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    Quote Originally Posted by VelomaneCO View Post
    Hi!
    I am new to the forum and would like to share my recent build (cyclocross ? montercross? not sure of which label) : "La Mule" is its name
    I found an old 1999 Trek 720 MultiTrack that I rebuilt into an all-rounder bike (gravel, groceries/errands, touring, cross...)
    Today's ride was the perfect test with a 20-mile route combining gravel, trails and road.Click image for larger version. 

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    Nice!!

  21. #2821
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    Mack-turtle, i loved the stack adn reach calculator site, thanks man. so, I have a Karate Monkey who has done kanza and a few land runs dropped with a soma gator bar, a litle extra stack and a short stem with a bit of rise and she has been slammable. Anyway, i work at a specialized shop and need to ride a specialized bike as my collection of Surly's n all city bikes is apparently... Anyway, thinkin of drop barring an epic hard tail. SO i have compared the geometry to a monkey and a few other touring rigs, and the take home seems to be this is a duper long bike. other than that no duper red flags. Seems it wouldnt be too terrible to put a stumpy stem on there and make her a drop bar beauty?! Spose my question is can anyone see why this would be a spectacularly bad idea or si there anything i am missing? My boss says it will ruin teh bike adn it is a terrible idea, i love me some drop bars though. This would be my first non steel bike, as well as my first bike with gears. drinkin a lil bit of dat cool-aid.

  22. #2822
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySingleSpeeder View Post
    Mack-turtle, i loved the stack adn reach calculator site, thanks man. so, I have a Karate Monkey who has done kanza and a few land runs dropped with a soma gator bar, a litle extra stack and a short stem with a bit of rise and she has been slammable. Anyway, i work at a specialized shop and need to ride a specialized bike as my collection of Surly's n all city bikes is apparently... Anyway, thinkin of drop barring an epic hard tail. SO i have compared the geometry to a monkey and a few other touring rigs, and the take home seems to be this is a duper long bike. other than that no duper red flags. Seems it wouldnt be too terrible to put a stumpy stem on there and make her a drop bar beauty?! Spose my question is can anyone see why this would be a spectacularly bad idea or si there anything i am missing? My boss says it will ruin teh bike adn it is a terrible idea, i love me some drop bars though. This would be my first non steel bike, as well as my first bike with gears. drinkin a lil bit of dat cool-aid.
    I'm with your boss... that frame is not at all suited to drop bars ... get a sequoia if you have to ride a speccy


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  23. #2823
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    I still don't have the monstercross bike I want but here are a few lame attempts I have made:

    Bianchi Boardwalk- too long with drop bars, had to rebuild it with flat bars.
    I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-boardwalk.jpg

    Karate Monkey with dirt drops. just awkward
    I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-km-mxc.jpg

    old Scott Laredo with musasche bars. even with a stubby stem, I always ended up riding it on the ends of the bars
    I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-loreda-mush1.jpg
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  24. #2824
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    I plan to build a monstercross-ish bike on the cheap by converting an old hybrid from the local co-op. I usually ride a road/cx bike with a 545-555mm effective top tube or a mountain bike with a 600-615mm top tube.

    since I will be using an old bike for this and need to search to find the right one,* what should I be looking for in terms of size? it might be hard to get exact measurements on the frame as I search but I might be able to dig up geo charts on old bikes using my phone as I go.

    any particular frames that make good candidates? I am looking for steel, rigid, canti brakes, room for at least 40mm tires. I'd like to singlespeed it, which might require a tensioner.
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  25. #2825
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    ...
    Last edited by *OneSpeed*; 12-21-2017 at 06:29 PM.
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  26. #2826
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    I have two candidates. Mid-90s steel

    Diamondback Ascent. 26er, so not strictly Monstercross. Needs a lot of work, tires, left crank arm. $50
    I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-fb_img_1513882526814.jpg

    Spec Crossroads Elite. Needs new tires to make it functional.

    I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-fb_img_1513882531854.jpg

    Which one will make a better gravel grinder with drop bars?
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  27. #2827
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    Does the crossroads use 700c wheels? You'll get the benefit of bigger hoops and more tire selection. Looks clean.

    The Diamondback looks pretty rough, rusty chain, missing parts. Probably been stored outside for a while.

    Of those two, I'd go Crossroads.
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  28. #2828
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I have two candidates. Mid-90s steel

    Diamondback Ascent. 26er, so not strictly Monstercross. Needs a lot of work, tires, left crank arm. $50
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Spec Crossroads Elite. Needs new tires to make it functional.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Which one will make a better gravel grinder with drop bars?


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  29. #2829
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Does the crossroads use 700c wheels? You'll get the benefit of bigger hoops and more tire selection. Looks clean.

    The Diamondback looks pretty rough, rusty chain, missing parts. Probably been stored outside for a while.

    Of those two, I'd go Crossroads.
    +1... And I'd use the DB cranks

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  30. #2830
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    I swapped the Ascent for the Crossroads. It has a long way to go, but it mostly needs bars, levers, and tires.
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  31. #2831
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    Loving this !!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Smithhammer View Post
    Gospel troof.

  32. #2832
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    for those of you who have more budget than I do:
    Vassago Fisticuffs frame $400 instead of $600
    w/ fork and headset <$520

    Fisticuff Frame
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  33. #2833
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I swapped the Ascent for the Crossroads. It has a long way to go, but it mostly needs bars, levers, and tires.
    this project is seeming less and less optimistic. I spent two hours rummaging around the local co-op and came up empty. my goal was to find some functional tires, drop bars, brake levers, a stem, and a crankset that would hold a single ring (the cranks on the bike have a weird BCD for a hybrid triple). the Yellow Bike Co-op is huge and has TONS of old bike parts. I quickly learned that all the good stuff has been picked over and finding what you are looking for is like finding a needle in a hay stack. i have a new found respect for people who can successfully build interesting, functional Frankenbikes.

    my first order of business was to find a stem and handlebar that might work and it turns out that upright quill stems that fit around the bends on a drop bar are extremely rare. i finally found something but it was extremely short and I have no idea if that is going to result in a fit that works for me. success: 2/10

    I then started digging through the brake levers in seach of a pair of functional aero drop bar levers. most of the levers were right-side only, missing parts, or had rubber hoods that were rotting off. after about 30 minutes, I find a pair of Diacompe levers that matched! there were missing the inside cable ferrules. another ten minutes of searching allowed me to steal some ferrules that would work. the clamps were missing so I dug through a giant box of drop-bar lever clamps and tried about 20 of them. nadda. these Diacompe levers require some oddball clamp that I will probably never find. success: 0/10

    a friend gave me some old LX cranks with a BB and a 44t Surly ring. Awesome! success: 10/10.

    I found some 35mm wire bead hybrid tires. this was after I mostly gave up on the project. $5 each. success: 3/10.

    at this point I was 99% certain this is not worth the effort. I already added up the cost of buying the stuff I need new but cheap (stem adapter, modern drop bars, levers, etc), and the project was several hundred dollars, well on the way to buying a new bike that is rust-free, has decent double-walled wheels, knobby tires, disc brakes, etc. why bother tinkering with an old hybrid that is better off as a hybrid when I could wait a little while and buy something that works 100 times better?

    I am putting the bike back together with new/ old tires, new cables, and selling it for what I put into it.
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  34. #2834
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    So here's my latest project. MonsterCross goodness.

    Build kit so far. Lots of Japanese components.

    - Soma Wolverine frame with lugged crown fork
    - IRD Defiant crankset- soon to be 1x 42t NW
    - Tange Seiki BB
    - Power Grips Pedals/straps- yes, you read that correctly.
    - Velo Orange headset
    - Soma stem and seatpost clamp
    - Hadley 135mm Bolt-on rear hub with Ti hardware (my first one, totally dig it so far but haven't ridden it yet.)
    - Surly Bolt-on front hub. Both laced to Stans Arch MK3 rims
    - Soma Cazadero 42c rear tire, Schwalbe Racing Ralph 2.1" front. Front tire may be too wide on these rims, not a lot of clearance but we'll see.
    - Shimano bar end shifter. Undecided if I'm going wide range 10 speed or 11 spd?
    - On One Midge handlebars, Tektro ergo levers. Planning on doing a base layer of normal handlebar tape, with the second/top layer of Cotton bar tape from Newbaums. I have a plan, should be cool.
    - TRP Spyre calipers
    - I have a GX rear derailleur that's almost new so I'll give that a go before I buy something new, or just give up the gears for SS.
    - Thomson seatpost, Ergon saddle.

    Couple more weeks and I'll have it rolling. I need a chainring, I have to run cables and housing, I need a cassette, need to finish the handlebars/tape, and need one more rotor which I think I have. Looking forward to my first ride on this thing!!!

    I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-img_6453.jpg

    I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-img_6454.jpg

    I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-img_6455.jpg

    I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-img_6456.jpg

    I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-img_6457.jpg
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  35. #2835
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    Singular Swift (drop-bar MTB)

    I few recent shots of my Singular Swift (drop-bar MTB)

    1x10 with an Ultegra 5700 shifters
    TRP Hy/Rd hydraulic brakes
    Shimano RD-810 (Saint) rear derailleur
    11-40 cassette using a Wolftooth 40t ring
    Salsa Woodchipper 46cm drop bar
    Phil Wood Eccentric bottom bracket (EBB)
    Steel fork is 485mm long/48mm rake
    WTB 2.3" front/ 2.25" rear
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-img_9897.jpg  

    I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-img_9903.jpg  


  36. #2836
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik_A View Post
    I few recent shots of my Singular Swift (drop-bar MTB)

    1x10 with an Ultegra 5700 shifters
    TRP Hy/Rd hydraulic brakes
    Shimano RD-810 (Saint) rear derailleur
    11-40 cassette using a Wolftooth 40t ring
    Salsa Woodchipper 46cm drop bar
    Phil Wood Eccentric bottom bracket (EBB)
    Steel fork is 485mm long/48mm rake
    WTB 2.3" front/ 2.25" rear
    I like the way you set the bars up. Very nice bike.
    A garage full of steel frames means happiness.

  37. #2837
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I have two candidates. Mid-90s steel

    Diamondback Ascent. 26er, so not strictly Monstercross. Needs a lot of work, tires, left crank arm. $50
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Spec Crossroads Elite. Needs new tires to make it functional.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Which one will make a better gravel grinder with drop bars?
    That is funny, I have an Ascent EX with similar paint, probably 1 year newer as it has rapidfire rather than topmount shifters, sitting in the garage, and I've been contemplating a drop bar gravel conversion vs. a fixie city conversion as potential fun projects. Been looking at similar Crossroads, and Trek MultiTracks as shown a few posts up... on Craigslist and wondering if it would be better to just get a native 700c frame for gravel. Its always nice to think you have some outlandish idea, and then stumble upon simpatico peeps working on the same stuff. Your cautionary tale is a sound one, and I can easily imagine the project costs outpacing a proper purpose built gravel bike, but I have far too many parts in the junk bin to let the idea go without at least giving it a shot.

  38. #2838
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    I've wanted some monstercross for a long time and this is about the only thing available, not bad but a bit heavy. God why hast thou forsaken us?

    Why are there so many anemic gravel bikes with skinny tires* or smaller wheels and all of ONE bicycle from a large company? Seriously, I am asking why. As you can see below it can be done, so why isn't it?

    *which are as heavy and sometimes heavier than tubeless 2.1" Schwalbes
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-56cm_stuntman.jpg  


  39. #2839
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    Quote Originally Posted by esXso View Post
    I've wanted some monstercross for a long time and this is about the only thing available, not bad but a bit heavy. God why hast thou forsaken us?

    Why are there so many anemic gravel bikes with skinny tires* or smaller wheels and all of ONE bicycle from a large company? Seriously, I am asking why. As you can see below it can be done, so why isn't it?

    *which are as heavy and sometimes heavier than tubeless 2.1" Schwalbes
    Check out the Kona Sutra LTD. I absolutely LOVE mine and have run it with 700x2.25 tires. Currently running it with 700X2.00 WTB Nine Lines and it's one of my favorite bikes. It fascinates me that so many companies have gone the 29-/B sized route. The bikes just look weird to me with such small wheels.

  40. #2840
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    Both Raleigh Stuntman and Kona Sutra LTD are billed as "off-road touring" bikes (if I am not mistaken, Stuntman chainstays are 450!). If you just need big rubber and snappy handling with drop bars, you need to resort to mtb with drop bars.

    Because of their "touring" intent, no wonder that they are so heavy. Stuntman is 28 lb in 58 size! I wonder how light can it be built up with nice carbon fork and wheels. Any guesses on weight of the frame? I am thinking 2.5kg with headset and bb installed, no? (based on Vaya's weight).
    Last edited by ryoanji; 03-07-2018 at 01:56 AM. Reason: grammar

  41. #2841
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    Go check out monster cross news on fb, find this is the only outlet for getting the scoop on new dirt drop bars, new 38-45mm wide tires on the market, and so forth. It's been up for 10 years I think I read somewhere.

    personally dig bruce gordon and soma cazaderro tires. Handlebars I like the Midge when running bar end shifters. Soma Junebug & Portola bars on everything else. Will admit the carbon Cowbell (which is very similar to the Soma bar) has me drooling though. I personally prefer cantilever brakes myself. Yeah discs are better in the wet but I can find really nice old rim brake wheels that are light for cheap anywhere. Plus I can always find pads in a pinch where not every shop has disc pads you need when you need it.

    Fun bikes. But look out, It starts with building a cross check or wolverine and then leads you to custom. Never thought I'd ever go custom fo any bike until I fell in love with a true monster cross rig. I thank the MC News fb page for inspiring such.

  42. #2842
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    Just saw this great article on CX Magazine's fb page on monster cross that nails it to a T. special thanks to the guy behind MC news for keeping history alive!

    https://www.cxmagazine.com/monster-c...-dirt-drop-bar

  43. #2843
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    Waterford X22

    Ciao... my Waterford X22 in latest iteration
    I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-48a3613a-c4aa-4d73-9ea3-8ae4d3db86db.jpg
    71 going on 12...roll on... for if you stop, you may drop...

  44. #2844
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    thats a great looking setup!!!
    though hope is frail, it must prevail - Taj Weekes

    betam eh-wud-eh-HA-lehu y
    eh-nay Ityopia!

  45. #2845
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    Still a work in progress but I wanted to build up an inexpensive ss,drop bar, mtb. Really happy with how it turned out and I LOVE riding this thing...I keep it down in Florida so i don't ride it as much as I like but its perfect on those sandy, flat, fast, tight, singlestrack trails there.

    here it is in its first incarnation (pre carbon fork) & before it insisted on warmer climate.



    though hope is frail, it must prevail - Taj Weekes

    betam eh-wud-eh-HA-lehu y
    eh-nay Ityopia!

  46. #2846
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    Scouting the Barry Roubaix route.



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  47. #2847
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    can't believe this thread is still alive....
    future nature

  48. #2848
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    Quote Originally Posted by esXso View Post
    I've wanted some monstercross for a long time and this is about the only thing available, not bad but a bit heavy. God why hast thou forsaken us?

    Why are there so many anemic gravel bikes with skinny tires* or smaller wheels and all of ONE bicycle from a large company? Seriously, I am asking why. As you can see below it can be done, so why isn't it?

    *which are as heavy and sometimes heavier than tubeless 2.1" Schwalbes
    I bought a Stuntman this year, have about 250 miles on it so far. Road, bike path, gravel, single track. It's by far the most versatile and fun bike that I have owned.

    I bought a 52cm, because I liked the steeper seat angle. I swapped the bars, stem and post to EA70 (EA70ax bars), swapped the seat, 165mm GX eagle cranks with 38t direct mount, and went tubeless with the stock tires and wheels. Bike weighs in at exactly 25 pounds.

    The 450 stays are a non issue. I used to be in the short chainstay club. Last year I had a Charge at 430mm, a spot rocker at 440mm (ish) and now this at 450mm. It doesn't make a damn bit of difference as far as I can tell.

    The internal hydro routing sucks. The rear hose came 3" too long and the front is barely long enough. I left them because I am too lazy to be bothered to bleed the brakes.

    I swapped out the parts I did because the seat and seat post are a complete waste. The cranks are cheap, but not bad, I run 165's so they came off day one. The bars are really narrow, I put 44's on it.

  49. #2849
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    Geometry advice

    Hi everybody. I've been a silent guest here for a few weeks, time to get serious. I want to build a monster cross do-it-all drop bar 29er based on Kross Unplugged frame (Reynolds 631). It has extremely long ETT and I'm having second thoughts if it is reasonable. Please advice me, which stem would You (not) recomment. I'm 174 = 5'9" tall.

    The bike originally used 5 degree 120 or 110mm stem with riser bar. I wanna go shorter with Midge Bar and 90mm, 45 degree or 60mm, 35 degree stem. Not sure if i should aim to have hoods or drops in place where the original bar was. Looking forward to Your thoughts. Thanks!

    I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-unnamed.jpg

    Original setup: I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-kr2009_4874.jpg
    Last edited by PiotrK; 03-26-2018 at 01:32 AM.

  50. #2850
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    My 29" Monstercross conversion

    But not perfectly happy with the FD since the lowest gears are not perfectly smooth...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-whatsapp-image-2018-03-27-13.35.25.jpg  


  51. #2851
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    trek procaliber drop bar 29er - monster cx ?

    if you dream it...you can build it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-img_5533.jpg  

    I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-img_5931.jpg  


  52. #2852
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    Upside down pic please delete.

  53. #2853
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDirtHerder View Post
    Wow. New to this forum and all but seems like a lot of misconceptions about monster cross stem from this thread. Friend just told me about it because he saw mine and yeah...this thread seems to be where the myths started for sure.

    So, i was there when Matt Chester (father of monstercross) was exploring dirt drops.
    ...
    To Matt, a Monstercross/cyclocrossy bike with room for big tires, was an exercise in what the bare minimum of a bike you need to ride a bit of everything efficiently.
    ...
    But hey, if a few people are educated on this now, build a purist monster cross and love it...maybe pay a builder...I'm all for it.
    MrDirtHerder,

    Thank you for this information. Your post is probably directed at me, in part, because I object to narrow definitions of monstercross... My goal was not to cause controversy, but simply point out the pettiness of the purists who, in my opinion, drain the fun out of building bikes based on a personal "exercise in what the bare minimum of a bike you need to ride a bit of everything efficiently" would be, to use your words. I agree 100% that monstercross is not a marketing ploy, but moreover a personal exercise in building the do-it-all bike. In fact, as the market for "gravel bikes" matures, I have yet to see a single big manufacturer use the term "monstercross" for marketing their product... those who disagree should feel free to cite examples if I missed them. [Correction: there is the Ibis Hakka MX, but I don't think they explicitly use the term "monstercross"]

    I'll share my perspective, but can see from the comments in this forum that I'm not alone. I think my history with bikes gives me some credibility when I say that those who want to narrowly define bike genres are too wrapped up in their personal preferences and closed to others' experiences. I stand by my belief that bikes are better defined by how they are used than how they are built. I don't want to come off as some know-it-all. On the contrary, I am frustrated by people who purport to know all, and dictate their personal opinions and preferences as if a one-size-fits-all approach is realistic or attainable in cycling. Of course we can define things like 29er, 26er, road bike, etc., but anything "cross," outside of UCI regulations, is all relative to the individual cyclist.

    I grew up in Marin lusting after the original Klunkers, then later purpose-built bikes by Joe Breeze, Steve Potts, Otis Guy, Charlie Cunningham and hanging out in Charlie Kelly and Gary Fisher's MountainBikes shop on San Anselmo Avenue (and later, the Fat Tire Trading Post at the same location). The first geared bike I took offroad was a Junior 10 with 24 x 1.25" tires, drop bars and butterfly brake levers. I've been into all types of bikes since 1978, and got my first purpose-built mountain bike in 1985. My reality today, as a 6'1", 215 lb. guy (without packs), is that a rigid (monster)cross bike with rim brakes and 44 mm tires doesn't work for me. I tried Rock n' Road tires and they're too much road and not enough rock for me. Rim brakes don't stop me, especially in the wet conditions I ride frequently, and rigid forks with sub-2" tires cause undue pain.

    I respect Cunningham engineering, but Charlie and I are different people, as I suspect Matt Chester and I are very different people. I would suffer on a Cunningham, and that beautifully-engineered bike would suffer catastrophically under my weight and riding style. I don't consider a Cunningham with drop bars suitable for use as a mountain bike, but more of the missing link that led to monstercross (yes, it's a mountain bike for many, but it would not work for *me*). I'm not a road biker *AT ALL* and it seems that most cross riders come from the road world, not the MTB world, so what's "monstrous" to them is pathetically insufficiently suited to off-road use for me. That said, I've helped get many of my MTB buddies into the cross world (monster and otherwise) because it allows us to ride out of our houses and get anywhere throughout the local network of roads and trails without the use of a car.

    To me, a monstercross bike needs more cush. These days, I split my time 60/40 between my 160mm travel MTB with 2.8/2.5" tires and a Mooto-X YBB with a 100mm travel fork, disc brakes, drop bars and 2" tires. I call my Moots a monstercross bike and my other one my mountain bike. I built a fully rigid monstercross bike before the Moots with skinnier tires, but it did not meet the definition of "the bare minimum of a bike you need to ride a bit of everything efficiently" *for me.* I don't think people should be upset that I call it a monstercross bike instead of a "drop bar mountain bike," because it is not a mountain bike to me. It really sucks as a mountain bike, relatively speaking, so I would never call it that. It's *my* monstercross bike.

  54. #2854
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    Quote Originally Posted by goto11 View Post
    MrDirtHerder,


    Call it what you want but deep down inside you know it just ain't so.
    You meet the craziest people riding e-bikes!

    Make
    America
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    Again

  55. #2855
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    Quote Originally Posted by PiotrK View Post
    Hi everybody. I've been a silent guest here for a few weeks, time to get serious. I want to build a monster cross do-it-all drop bar 29er based on Kross Unplugged frame (Reynolds 631). It has extremely long ETT and I'm having second thoughts if it is reasonable. Please advice me, which stem would You (not) recomment. I'm 174 = 5'9" tall.

    The bike originally used 5 degree 120 or 110mm stem with riser bar. I wanna go shorter with Midge Bar and 90mm, 45 degree or 60mm, 35 degree stem. Not sure if i should aim to have hoods or drops in place where the original bar was. Looking forward to Your thoughts. Thanks!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Original setup: Click image for larger version. 

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    Not sure if this will help but I went a 70mm 25° stem on my Lynskey MT29 XL with a Ritchey Venturemax bar. I'm 6'3" and have a Lynskey Sportive in XL as my commuter.

    I found that the 70mm 25° stem placed the bars at almost the same spot as my 100mm 0° stem on the commuter. In fact with the tighter curve and more flare, I'm able to use the drops more, which is a good thing especially on rocky descents and dirt roads.

    I know the purists will heap crap on my bike because of the suspension and dropper post, but it is an absolute weapon in mtb marathon races. With carbon forks and lighter wheels it would probably carve up CX races too. It's quicker than most bikes in most places...

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

  56. #2856
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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    Call it what you want but deep down inside you know it just ain't so.
    Nah. I just don't care about what *my bike* is to people who want to judge it by a picture, but have no clue how it's ridden. It isn't called a "drop bar mountain bike" by me or anyone else I ride with, nor do we use that term for Salsa Fargos or Cutthroats, even though that's what Salsa calls them. We all have real mountain bikes for when we're just riding trails, but we call our big-tired cross bikes monstercross bikes because it makes sense, based on how we ride them.

    I am sorry if that bothers the people who want to believe they're more hardcore than those of us who want bikes that are comfortable, stop well and have traction offroad, but you all best get over it because a bike that spends half its time on roads isn't ever going to be a mountain bike to real mountain bikers. Monsters come in all shapes and sizes, cross means it's ridden both on and offroad, and there is no better term for a big-tired bike used for this purpose than monstercross.

    I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-monstercross.jpg
    My monstercross bike is rad. Bite me.

  57. #2857
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    I went with this old Moots 29er frame because the relatively short top tube was designed when MTBs typically ran longer stems. As such, it has the same top tube length as an Ibis Hakkalugi, making it easy on the back when in the drops. This is the third monstercross bike I've built from the ground up. The first one was fully rigid with rim brakes and I hated it.

    Moots Mooto-X YBB 10th Anniversary Limited Edition 2009, 19”, 22.4" top tube (eBay score!)
    RockShox SID XX Solo Air 100mm 29" Straight 1-1/8 15x100mm TA, Axel to Crown 526mm
    Di2 hydraulic brifters w/ XTR control unit for syncro-shift
    XT Icetech brakes & 6 bolt rotors
    XTR Race PD-M9000 pedals
    XTR Di2 M9050 11 speed Long Cage Rear Derailleur
    XTR Di2 9050 3x11 Front Derailleur
    XTR FC-M9020-3 180mm cranks 40-30-22T
    WTB Dirt Drop 31.8
    27.2 LEV dropper post w/ bar-end remote lever
    Stan's tubeless ZTR Arch wheelset w/ 2" tires
    King Cage w/ Stanley "aeroflask"

  58. #2858
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shortyesquire View Post
    Not sure if this will help but I went a 70mm 25° stem on my Lynskey MT29 XL with a Ritchey Venturemax bar. I'm 6'3" and have a Lynskey Sportive in XL as my commuter.

    I found that the 70mm 25° stem placed the bars at almost the same spot as my 100mm 0° stem on the commuter. In fact with the tighter curve and more flare, I'm able to use the drops more, which is a good thing especially on rocky descents and dirt roads.

    I know the purists will heap crap on my bike because of the suspension and dropper post, but it is an absolute weapon in mtb marathon races. With carbon forks and lighter wheels it would probably carve up CX races too. It's quicker than most bikes in most places...

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
    Pay no heed to the purists and fundamentalists. They are all that's wrong with this world. People need to lighten up, live and let live. Too many people want to impose their beliefs on others.

    Look, I appreciate all the history here, but it's like quoting the Bible and saying your interpretation is the only interpretation. People are going to have different interpretations, and there is joy and beauty in that. Purists and fundamentalists suck the joy and beauty out of life.

  59. #2859
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    For some of you who might equate Monstercross a bit with 'Adventure Bikes' and on of the favorite bikes in my current stable. This might be an interesting review of the Kona Sutra LTD for you. Kona Sutra LTD Review, The Last Adventure Bike - BIKEPACKING.com

  60. #2860
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 Speed View Post
    For some of you who might equate Monstercross a bit with 'Adventure Bikes' and on of the favorite bikes in my current stable. This might be an interesting review of the Kona Sutra LTD for you. Kona Sutra LTD Review, The Last Adventure Bike - BIKEPACKING.com
    I took one of the early (09 I think) Kona Sutra's with the Dedacciai tubing on the Munda Biddi trail in Western Australia with Schwalbe Marathan Mondiales.

    Heavy as f@#^ but also strong and reasonably compliant. Perfect bike for the trip. I sold that bike to a backpacker who was planning to ride over 5,000 kms from Perth to Sydney.

    Despite the fact that the Munda Biddi is over 1000kms of off road I still thought of the Sutra as a (super) tourer.

    I'm guessing with the thru axles and 73mm bb, the Sutra LTD veers more into monstercross territory. I guess the test for me is whether it would be just as happy running a 100mm fork and dropper or rigid forks and post, the Surly Krampus, my Lynskey and that Moots above obviously seem to fit that bill.

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

  61. #2861
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    buff and birchy...

    I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-birchbike.jpg

  62. #2862
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    Another genuine monstercross bike for the masses

    Besides the Raleigh Stuntman we now have another steel 29er with good geometry, the Kona Sutra LTD. I've sloppily edited the photo to set it up the way I like to ride with lots of bar drop and a long stem. The Sutra geometry 54cm is roughly equivalent to the Stuntman 56cm, but it has a shorter headtube and clearance for 2.2 tires (2.0 shown in photo). Sweet! Good job, Kona.

    Criticisms: Why does a "54cm" bike have a 57cm ETT and 52cm seatube? I tend to believe most bikes now have too-long top tubes, and this is especially a problem running drop bars.

    What I particularly like: A shorter headtube and short fork keep the front end low.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-2018-kona-surta-ltd_mine.jpg  

    Last edited by esXso; 06-25-2018 at 10:21 PM.

  63. #2863
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    Jamis Coda Monstercross - Converted Hybrid

    Here's mine. Now running Maxxis 700x42s, I picked this up as a flat bar hybrid. I've kept the original v-brakes adding travel agents so the TRP levers pull enough cable to enable me to stop. I got about $160 tied up in this bike...totally econo.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-img_20180628_113921.jpg  

    I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-img_20180628_113835.jpg  


  64. #2864
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    Quote Originally Posted by shojii View Post
    Here's mine. Now running Maxxis 700x42s, I picked this up as a flat bar hybrid. I've kept the original v-brakes adding travel agents so the TRP levers pull enough cable to enable me to stop. I got about $160 tied up in this bike...totally econo.
    Nice Coda. What year is it? My Coda only allows for a 700x35 out back.
    "Just remember, all bikes have front suspension once you put your hands on the handlebars!" - 1SPD

  65. #2865
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    My stuntman is still going strong. Over 1000 miles on it now. Lots of road, gravel, single track, you name it, its done it.

    Ended up going back to road cranks, 170mm rivals. I have a 42t on it now, as I am riding a bit more road and gravel than mountain. Resolute 42's on carbon wheels. 22lbs right now.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails I Beg You, More MONSTERCROSS-20180606_103334.jpg  

    Eat Clean and Pedal More

    www.eatcleanpedalmore.com

  66. #2866
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    Quote Originally Posted by blak_byke View Post
    Nice Coda. What year is it? My Coda only allows for a 700x35 out back.
    Hi, blak_byke

    It's a 2009. Same as this one: https://www.bicyclebluebook.com/sear....aspx?id=18270

    I'm about to modify the stays so I can get a 48 in there....check this out (courtesy of MTBR member Kustomz)

    http://forums.mtbr.com/attachments/2...here-drive.jpg

    I've already done this mod to a Ti everti cross bike so I can run wide 650Bs. Works well.

  67. #2867
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    Quote Originally Posted by shojii View Post
    Hi, blak_byke

    It's a 2009. Same as this one: https://www.bicyclebluebook.com/sear....aspx?id=18270

    I'm about to modify the stays so I can get a 48 in there....check this out (courtesy of MTBR member Kustomz)

    http://forums.mtbr.com/attachments/2...here-drive.jpg

    I've already done this mod to a Ti everti cross bike so I can run wide 650Bs. Works well.

    Cool. Mine is an 2006. I've been researching this to do to my Poprad that I just had converted to disc so I can run 650b comfortably. All the info I've found involved crimping the stays individually. Thanks for this!
    "Just remember, all bikes have front suspension once you put your hands on the handlebars!" - 1SPD

  68. #2868
    mtbr member
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    May 2008
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by blak_byke View Post
    Cool. Mine is an 2006. I've been researching this to do to my Poprad that I just had converted to disc so I can run 650b comfortably. All the info I've found involved crimping the stays individually. Thanks for this!
    In hindsight, I should have done it like this...you can still 'try this at home' though : )

    https://www.velocipedesalon.com/foru...rimp-8185.html

  69. #2869
    mtbr member
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    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    18
    Im from Brazil and this is my Custom Monstercross bike.

    I made the head tube very short so I can build with lower stem and use it like a "gravel" bike or so. Head angle is 69 because I wanted it to behave more like a MTB than a road bike.

    Steel frame - not cromoly
    BXT 480mm Tapered 15mm axle fork (can put 80mm or even 100mm susp)
    Deore cranks with 38t ring (have 36 also)
    Deore XT rear mech
    105 STI
    Sunrace 11.46 cassete
    TRP Spyre brakes
    Alpkit Love mud Bomber bars (similar as midge)
    70mm stem
    ESI Grips + cheap tape (need to change)
    ZTR Crest + novatec 791-792 hubs(not in pictures)

    tires may vary. Can fit 650b up to 2.8" or 29 up to 2.5" (tested)








    Here are some videos on my local trails

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R8LvFQpNoI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piIIPLOwVwI

    fell free to ask questions if u like it or not.

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