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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJSnoozer View Post
    1. Enduro races are not times up hills. You have a time you need to get to the check point but it is Sloooow.
    You'd agree though that if they made it timed and part of your final score rather than simply a time limit that an XC bike would probably fair better or at the very least not any worse than a typical 160mm enduro rig?


    Quote Originally Posted by FJSnoozer View Post
    Is this the 9.8 frame or the 9.9 all carbon?

    Weight with pedals
    Interested to know this part as well. Seems easier to get my hands on a 9.8 frame (or well the complete bike to upgrade parts from) than a 9.9 and it's only a few grams heavier and sans the kashima which I am not sure that I need anyway.

    Starting to get sold on the idea of a 120/100 top fuel with a dropper as my one bike quiver. I like beefy wheels though (like 2.6 beefy for trail killing) and I'm not sure i'd be able to stretch the shoes over a 2.4 on a TF.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I watched some BCBR last summer, and there was everything from steep XC hardtails to Knolly Wardens (150/160).
    Any of those wardens land on the podium?

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by drdocta View Post
    Any of those wardens land on the podium?
    Maybe if there were only 3 people who were entered/finished in a particular category.
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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by drdocta View Post
    You'd agree though that if they made it timed and part of your final score rather than simply a time limit that an XC bike would probably fair better or at the very least not any worse than a typical 160mm enduro rig?




    Interested to know this part as well. Seems easier to get my hands on a 9.8 frame (or well the complete bike to upgrade parts from) than a 9.9 and it's only a few grams heavier and sans the kashima which I am not sure that I need anyway.

    Starting to get sold on the idea of a 120/100 top fuel with a dropper as my one bike quiver. I like beefy wheels though (like 2.6 beefy for trail killing) and I'm not sure i'd be able to stretch the shoes over a 2.4 on a TF.
    If they did, enduro would look very different than it does now. The bikes would be different, and the people winning the races would be different, too.

    Yes, of course an XC bike would fair (far) better than a 160mm enduro bike if the race courses included uphill sections. But, aside from very brief uphill spurts during long, downhill segments, they don't include any climbing stages.
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJSnoozer View Post
    Yup, I have an Anthem 29 which is 100/100. I've taken that bike everywhere and point it down hill as fast as it will go.

    I bought an XTC carbon Hardtail frame to race most of the easiest stuff. I finding myself riding this bike everywhere anyways. including the gnarly stuff. Its just so much fun to ride and the acceleration is addicting. It was perfectly comfortable hitting a 5 foot drop this past. I was going 18 mph mind you which helps, but the idea is you can do it. I wouldn't roll off a 5 footer at 2 mph and "drop to flat."



    1. Enduro races are not times up hills. You have a time you need to get to the check point but it is Sloooow.

    Don't be sad you have options.

    The only thing about an XC that cant descend is the person on the saddle. Tires are a limiting factor because physics. That's a cheap fix!

    Look at any strava segment on any trail you ride. the top 20 is going to be filled with Fast guys on big bikes and Fast Cross country racers. I don't want to go posting a bunch of strava segments to prove a point, But if you look at any trail, that's who is on it. You probably just don't know who these people are yet. Texas is pretty pedally even downhill segments. Fitness goes a long way.

    Look at the local enduro series. Many of the features in those races that are the most challenging are cause by people not being able to have enough speed to clear a double or a gap. Tell me how an XC bike doesn't actually improve this situation. Sure there are segments with drops, that you would prefer more travel, but they can be ridden on an XC rig.


    There are Gnarly stage races where Trail bikes are good to have and protect your body. I would still take the XC bike for the ease of climbing. I won the 1 lap at the Lake Georgetown - Dragon Slayer on my anthem 100/100. The guys that won the three lap were on steel single speed hardtails.



    Is this the 9.8 frame or the 9.9 all carbon?

    Weight with pedals
    9.9 XTR pedals

  6. #106
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    Seems this thread has gone in favor of the XC bikes. I'm going to say it doesn't matter...

    Keep the cockpit long enough for good power transfer, and run a decently fast tire, and a trail bike will be of little to no disadvantage in an XC race.

    I had plenty of decent results racing regional events in the pro/open class aboard a 130 mm / 140 mm trail bike, and trust me, it's not like I'm making up lost time with talent. Even on shorter races and smoother courses it did fine. AND I had a bike to competitively race enduro with merely a tire, and maybe stem swap.

    I came to realize that with decent tires and fit, the bike isn't going to make a difference. So I choose the bike that is the most fun to ride for the area that I live. I will say that I happen to be on an XC bike now...with a dropper and 120 mm fork, but I have no delusions that it's any faster than the 120/130 travel bike I was on last year. It's just more fun for where I live now.

    For the op and the region he is riding, an XC bike does sound like the more fun option. But he shouldn't be thinking that it will necessarily be any fast.

  7. #107
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    I'm generally faster on my XC bike (100mm HT) vs the trail bike (140mm FS). If I have to pedal and climb more than I get to descend...I'll take the XC bike. If I'm doing more gravity oriented riding...then I'll use the trail bike. I've got some DH PR's that I set on my XC bike that I can't beat on the trail bike. My XC bike is also 19.7 vs the 30.5lbs trail bike.

  8. #108
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    Regarding weights of a Top Fuel.

    Here's some specs:
    - Top Fuel RSL frame set (all carbon) Size 21.5
    - Pike 2018 120 (with remote)
    - Mavic XA Carbon Pro wheel set (around 1580g)
    - Eagle XX1 complete
    - TL Ultimate brakes
    - Ashima rotors
    - Enve RSR 760 bar
    - 70mm stem
    - ESI grips
    - ProCraft seat post (rigid, 188g)
    - Phenom Pro saddle
    - XTR pedals (race version)
    - Barzo 2.25 up front and Mezcal 2.35 in rear

    Weight: 24.15lbs

    This is with dual remotes for the suspension and the Vittorias are not the lightest tyres.

    I'm about to order a Bikeyoke and I will do my best to stay below 25lbs.

  9. #109
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    My wife believes her new Kona Hei Hei is the perfect blend of XC fast and trail shredding she's ever ridden.
    How much of a disadvantage XC versus Trail Bike - Racing-img_0926.jpg

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padre View Post
    My wife believes her new Kona Hei Hei is the perfect blend of XC fast and trail shredding she's ever ridden.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I'm thinking if I build a Top Fuel like this it may fit the bill.

    Considering a TF 9.8 (or maybe a 9.9 if inventory becomes available soon enough and funds are there)
    switching the kovee wheels for line pro 30's
    switching the pro seatpost for a drop line
    switching the 100mm step cast for a 120mm 34
    switching the tires for something closer to 2.4" with decent cornering

    Might try the 100mm fork though for a bit and see how much I like it first tnough and if I really need the extra 20mm of travel.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by drdocta View Post
    I'm thinking if I build a Top Fuel like this it may fit the bill.

    Considering a TF 9.8 (or maybe a 9.9 if inventory becomes available soon enough and funds are there)
    switching the kovee wheels for line pro 30's
    switching the pro seatpost for a drop line
    switching the 100mm step cast for a 120mm 34
    switching the tires for something closer to 2.4" with decent cornering

    Might try the 100mm fork though for a bit and see how much I like it first tnough and if I really need the extra 20mm of travel.
    Why would you throw heavy wheels with questionable reliability on an XC bike?



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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Why would you throw heavy wheels with questionable reliability on an XC bike?



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    The Line 30s are about 50g lighter than the kovees and have a wider rim so they would provide more support for sidewalls and allow me to run slightly wider and admittedly slightly heavier tires for when I just want to ride trails. I can always go back to lighter tires for XC when I need to.

    Or is this logic flawed?

  13. #113
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    What is Just ride trails? I am not sure if you know this, but XC in texas is trail riding as fast as you can.

    I ride the same tires regardless. You don't want to train and learn the handling of your bike then switch to some peashooter race tire for a weekend. That is a recipe for failure.

    Some of our rockier trails actually hook better with Ikon front and rear, vs a more aggressive front.

    I would MUCH rather build up a 25-26m Carbon wheelset to i9s for al of the rocky technical moves you have to make n places like Brushy. That's what I have, and they are 1600 grams built to take a thrashing.
    Quote Originally Posted by drdocta View Post
    I'm thinking if I build a Top Fuel like this it may fit the bill.

    Considering a TF 9.8 (or maybe a 9.9 if inventory becomes available soon enough and funds are there)
    switching the kovee wheels for line pro 30's
    switching the pro seatpost for a drop line
    switching the 100mm step cast for a 120mm 34
    switching the tires for something closer to 2.4" with decent cornering

    Might try the 100mm fork though for a bit and see how much I like it first tnough and if I really need the extra 20mm of travel.
    Not to tell you what to do with "your build," but those wheels are totally unnecessary. All you need is a 2.35. I don't know any 2.4s that are worth a darn.

    Hans Dampf is plenty fast rolling in the hard compound. For rear, I would just run a 2.35 IKON EXO and call it a day.. You can put both of these on your Kovees. If you cant make this combo rail, its you and not the bike. Its a great combo for Austin trails for someone who wants to go fast and tear up downhills but can manage a little progressive rear drift. These are both very large 60mm wide tires that have a ton of volume to support our rocks.

    When we traveled to the Sedona and Santa Fe, I threw a 2.35 Magic mary on the front of my wife's Specialized ERA wuth Roval control carbons which are a similar width to Kovee. The profile is good and those tires rail. If you need more traction than this, lord help you.

    I think your are letting the Bike blogs and parking lot talk get to you and convince you need something that you don't. You do NOT want or need to haul around a 2.6 on our terrain. you will either get 1. an unreliable tire 2. a 1000 gram beast.


    BTW Lets' ride!

  14. #114
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    That makes sense. Would the extra rim width hurt me though in any way if I run 2.35 Ikons? The wheels I could get a decent deal (considering selling the kovees) and they have 2x the POE and better hubs though I could convert the Kovee's to 2x as well fairly easily with the kit Trek sells.

    Not so much bike blogs as the most fun tire I have ridden on our trails here so far has been the 2.6 nobby nic and right now I am rolling on the 2.4 Xr4 which is decent enough to enjoy as well. I admit though that I do not have very much experience on anything thinner than a 2.35 since my Marlin 5 6 years ago.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by drdocta View Post
    That makes sense. Would the extra rim width hurt me though in any way if I run 2.35 Ikons? The wheels I could get a decent deal (considering selling the kovees) and they have 2x the POE and better hubs though I could convert the Kovee's to 2x as well fairly easily with the kit Trek sells.

    Not so much bike blogs as the most fun tire I have ridden on our trails here so far has been the 2.6 nobby nic and right now I am rolling on the 2.4 Xr4 which is decent enough to enjoy as well. I admit though that I do not have very much experience on anything thinner than a 2.35 since my Marlin 5 6 years ago.
    Sorry, I made more edits to my post above. It takes forever because IE doesn't like to take all of the letters I type when editing.

    Yes, Too much rim width will square off your tire.

    If you want to run that tire for fun, Build up a spare wide front, but don't do that to your rear! You can build up a light strong wide front wheel for 200 bucks. I would still encourage you to try out a good Enduro front tire before going down this rabbit hole. if you REALLY need traction, give the Magic marry Trailstar a go. You don't need all that volume.

    I hear that 2.6 No No is fun. The old one was really light. I hear the Addix one is quite a bit heavier but who knows. My fun tire like I said is a HD at around 21 PSI. Im 200 pounds loaded up. Its a more aggressive tire than the XR4. Mine weighs 805 grams in pace star.

  16. #116
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    I consider the fuel ex as a trail race bike. The top fuel is a xc race bike. If I only had one bicycle that had to do everything I would go with the fuel ex. A lot of 650b bikes similar to the fuel ex are now being marketed as XC bikes. They fly in rooty twisty trails like you find in the southeast and on the east coast.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by party_wagon View Post
    I consider the fuel ex as a trail race bike. The top fuel is a xc race bike. If I only had one bicycle that had to do everything I would go with the fuel ex. A lot of 650b bikes similar to the fuel ex are now being marketed as XC bikes. They fly in rooty twisty trails like you find in the southeast and on the east coast.
    I can't recall the last time I saw an adult male on a 650b XC bike.

    They still make those things?

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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    I can't recall the last time I saw an adult male on a 650b XC bike.

    They still make those things?

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
    Schurter was winning on 650b 1.5 years ago.

    If you count smart sizing, yes, they do still make them. Scalpel Si, Top Fuel, for example. Mach 4 is one of the few I can think of that are wheel size specific that might still be worth a look.
    We're all on the same ship, and it's sinking.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    Schurter was winning on 650b 1.5 years ago.

    If you count smart sizing, yes, they do still make them. Scalpel Si, Top Fuel, for example. Mach 4 is one of the few I can think of that are wheel size specific that might still be worth a look.
    I'm being serious. The last time I saw a 650b XC bike was during a collegiate XC race in the fall of 2016. It was a Giant, because their team got sweet deals on them.

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