Pretty funny statement you make considering Companies like Yeti, Evil, Pivot and so many others continue to thrive because they build cutting edge products and give the brand a personality.
I'm not disagreeing that YT, Commencal, Canyon and others don't off great value and performance for a competitive price but your opinion is flawed as price isn't the only factor. If a company designs great bikes then there's room for everybody and people will spend the extra coin above direct sales companies.
I owned a YT capra and although it performed well the CS and quality were below par concerning Frame quality.
You are right that there will always be a market segment for differentiation, but it's very much disproportionate at the moment. The problem DS companies have had in the past is breaking the monopoly-like relation between the so called "premium" manufacturers and the media. It's further made harder by the fact that most DS companies are located in Europe while most of the media is in the US. Lately you may have noticed a turn in this when Canyon and Radon bikes have dominated all comparison reviews they've been able to penetrate.
It's just a fact that when you can buy XX1 grade components with carbon hoops online for the price of entry level stuff from your LBS, it's not really a competition anymore. This is of course if both have the same exposure on the media.
There's a lot to be learned from business cases like the rise of Lidl and Hofer in Europe. The fact is that when the buyers start seeing the DS bikes winning reviews and they become more present on the trails, they won't be seen as the mysterious unicorn scam on the internet anymore. Now there is challenges on both sides but judgement day is coming for old school "premium" bike manufacturers. Only time will tell how bad it will be.
Yeti riders will always rave about the Switch Infinity system and I do think it's a great design. If I where to ask Yeti to improve on this frame it would be a 66 degree HTA and 5" travel. Yes that's much closer to the 5.5 but I'm not looking for a steep short travel XC bike. I'm looking for a slacker medium travel trail/enduro bike with a FOX34 140 fork.
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I like everything about the Pivot SB except the FOX36, I'm really after a bike for a FOX34 140 since I feel my old bike with a 36 was overkill for 90% of my riding. I absolutely love the Super Boost 157mm spacing. About the only other change would be a Float X2 rear shock option.
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I'm not a Yeti fan-boy and I don't ride enough bikes on my familiar terrain set up for me, to determine clearly 'the best bike'. I can't afford multiple $100 bike rentals either.
What I can say is that out of the 3 bikes I've owned in my 3.5 years of riding that my 2 month old Yeti 5.5 sort of ***** slaps the other 2 (a high end Ibis Mojo and then a top build SC Bronson), particularly in terms of pedaling efficiency. The Mojo felt old-school being a 26" bike with old geometry and I never really gelled with it. The Bronson was a step forward with better geometry and I instantly preferred the 27.5" wheels and at that time (2014) every ride test I did of a 29er left me very disappointed in the wagon wheels. But the Yeti 5.5 is a BIG improvement all around, especially in pedaling efficiency.
The www.outdoorgearlabs Enduro bike review was really what convinced me to buy the Yeti as I like hard numbers and it was hard to argue with the bike that was both fastest up AND down in timed tests. The big question mark this review left for me, since the Yeti was the only 29er in the test, was maybe the advantages the Yeti held were not because SI and the rest of the geometry but instead were because of the wagon wheels?
At this time, at my height (I think guys under 5'9" should be on 27.5s) the only bikes I could seriously consider would be the SC HighTower or the Yeti 5.5, and I'd choose the most efficient pedaling one as that is where you make up the most time and pedaling is my traditional weakness.
My Trek Fuel EX 9.9
In 29 configuration: 140 Fox 34, MRP ramp up cartridge, Kabolt axle, low mino link setting, Nobby Nic 2.6 rubber, full Eagle XX1 drivetrain with black Eagle chain, WT oval 30t ring, 24gr AB oval chainguide, ceramic Hope "threaded" PF41 bb, Renthal Apex 35 40mm stem with carbon Fatbar lite 30mm rise 760 width bar, Lizard Skins DSP 32.2mm grips, HT trail pedals, Fox Transfer 150 post paired with WT cartridge bearing remote 1x lever, Guide Ultimate brakes with 180 Hope Floating rotors f/r, Nox Farlow 28h 30mm id hoops with I9 Torch hubs, Sapim bladed spokes, 66.2 degree h/a, 339mm bb height, 432mm chainstays, incredible performing Fox/Trek/Penske re:aktiv 130mm rear travel and the kicker.....wait for it.....25.85lbs with pedals.
27.5+ mode, all things remain the same with the addition of Nox Kitsuma 36mm id hoops shod with 2.8 Nobby Nic Apex casing rear and 3.0 Nobby Nic Apex front rubber, 180 rotors f/r. Weight balloons up to a portly 26.3lbs in 27.5+ mode.
This bike can and will compete for podiums in Enduro and XC racing.
I agree that YT offers some great builds but I'm a frame only guy, since I own a lot of high end reusable parts.
I agree. It would be cool if they sold the frames only as I have built bikes in the past as well but at least they offer some nice packages. One could always piece out the parts that they don't want. As inexpensive as they are compared to others, it should not be too tough to recuperate the $$.
Pretty funny statement you make considering Companies like Yeti, Evil, Pivot and so many others continue to thrive because they build cutting edge products and give the brand a personality.
I'm not disagreeing that YT, Commencal, Canyon and others don't off great value and performance for a competitive price but your opinion is flawed as price isn't the only factor. If a company designs great bikes then there's room for everybody and people will spend the extra coin above direct sales companies.
I owned a YT capra and although it performed well the CS and quality were below par concerning Frame quality.
Just curious as to how you based your opinion on the frame quality ? My friend picked up the top '16 capra, rode it for a couple of months, and then decided to sell it and get the Jeffsy Pro as it pedaled better. I looked over both bikes with a fine tooth comb and the frame quality to me seemed to be top notch. Ultimately, I took advantage of black friday and picked up the jeffsy pro myself after testing my friend's and I could not be any happier. Now, I am not an engineer and I have no idea what carbon modulus YT uses in the frame construction, but seeing guys riding these bikes at the RedBull Rampage, never hearing about any frame issue whatsoever,....oh and some dude winning a world championship would lead me to believe that these frames are at least on par as far as quality with the competition. If you encountered an issue, please divulge.
Just curious as to how you based your opinion on the frame quality ? My friend picked up the top '16 capra, rode it for a couple of months, and then decided to sell it and get the Jeffsy Pro as it pedaled better. I looked over both bikes with a fine tooth comb and the frame quality to me seemed to be top notch. Ultimately, I took advantage of black friday and picked up the jeffsy pro myself after testing my friend's and I could not be any happier. Now, I am not an engineer and I have no idea what carbon modulus YT uses in the frame construction, but seeing guys riding these bikes at the RedBull Rampage, never hearing about any frame issue whatsoever,....oh and some dude winning a world championship would lead me to believe that these frames are at least on par as far as quality with the competition. If you encountered an issue, please divulge.
I had my Capra CF Pro for 2 months and it developed cracks in the paint close to the headtube as well as the downtube by the bottom bracket. The Pinkbike Capra thread was filled with the same issues back in summer 2015. Also the Bos Suspension that was speced during that time was complete garbage concerning reliability with nothing but problems.
I was lucky enough to sell the complete bike and not suffer much of a loss.
And in comparison my Nomad 3 and Yeti SB6 are better bikes in all aspects.
Aaron Gwin could win races on any manufacturer he chooses and has done so.
YT definitely give you more value for your dollar and the bikes are very good performers but just not up to the level of what I now own and I'm happy to spend the extra $$$ to own either of the 2 bikes I mentioned.
Just curious as to how you based your opinion on the frame quality ? My friend picked up the top '16 capra, rode it for a couple of months, and then decided to sell it and get the Jeffsy Pro as it pedaled better. I looked over both bikes with a fine tooth comb and the frame quality to me seemed to be top notch. Ultimately, I took advantage of black friday and picked up the jeffsy pro myself after testing my friend's and I could not be any happier. Now, I am not an engineer and I have no idea what carbon modulus YT uses in the frame construction, but seeing guys riding these bikes at the RedBull Rampage, never hearing about any frame issue whatsoever,....oh and some dude winning a world championship would lead me to believe that these frames are at least on par as far as quality with the competition. If you encountered an issue, please divulge.
What does that have to do with anything? I am loyal to well designed bikes that make me grin ear to ear each and every ride. Lots of manufacturers make bikes that fit that description and mine happens to be Yeti.
I just don't understand why people always have to play the fanboy card ? I've ridden at least 10 different manufacturers bikes in the past couple years and I found my preference.
Ride what you own and spent your hard earned money on. As long as we're all out having fun is all that matter.
BTW the SB 5.5 is the Holy Grail 29'er even without water bottle placement in the triangle. I'd rather have outstanding ride characteristics in all aspects than room for 1 water bottle. The bike begs to be ridden way longer than that single bottle will supply you with .
What does that have to do with anything? I am loyal to well designed bikes that make me grin ear to ear each and every ride. Lots of manufacturers make bikes that fit that description and mine happens to be Yeti.
I just don't understand why people always have to play the fanboy card ? I've ridden at least 10 different manufacturers bikes in the past couple years and I found my preference.
Ride what you own and spent your hard earned money on. As long as we're all out having fun is all that matter.
BTW the SB 5.5 is the Holy Grail 29'er even without water bottle placement in the triangle. I'd rather have outstanding ride characteristics in all aspects than room for 1 water bottle. The bike begs to be ridden way longer than that single bottle will supply you with .
Think you missed the point. Yeti doesn't really have a good CS rep from what I've read. Could be best bikes in the world- I wouldn't buy one because of the CS nightmares I've read about them combined with costing more than just about everyone else.
If you're going to price yourself at the top, your CS has to match.
Think you missed the point. Yeti doesn't really have a good CS rep from what I've read. Could be best bikes in the world- I wouldn't buy one because of the CS nightmares I've read about them combined with costing more than just about everyone else.
If you're going to price yourself at the top, your CS has to match.
To be completely honest, What company doesn't have CS issues. The bottom line is that all bikes break and suffer failure. Myself as well as the 100's of Yeti owners I know or met have nothing but excellent experience with Yeti CS.
Yeti tends to investigate the issue with the failure....did you spend time Hucking your bike or crash in a Gnarly rock garden that not only broke your body but also your frame, then your going to partially pay for the mishap.
Also worth noting is that companies can improve over time with the way they handle these claims. What may have been the way they handled a claim 2 years ago can be quite different today for the better.
And anyone saying that Santa Cruz, Pivot, Ibis or any other company just gives frames to anyone who owns there bikes that suffers failure is a lie. Why, because the bike shop owners that carry these brands tell me so and every situation is different.
I didn't miss the point but instead have personal experience on the matter.
I briefly had a 4.5C. Briefly. Definitely not the bike for me in Phoenix. Beautiful frame, though; Yeti arguably makes the best-looking bikes on the market
To be completely honest, What company doesn't have CS issues. The bottom line is that all bikes break and suffer failure. Myself as well as the 100's of Yeti owners I know or met have nothing but excellent experience with Yeti CS.
Yeti tends to investigate the issue with the failure....did you spend time Hucking your bike or crash in a Gnarly rock garden that not only broke your body but also your frame, then your going to partially pay for the mishap.
Also worth noting is that companies can improve over time with the way they handle these claims. What may have been the way they handled a claim 2 years ago can be quite different today for the better.
And anyone saying that Santa Cruz, Pivot, Ibis or any other company just gives frames to anyone who owns there bikes that suffers failure is a lie. Why, because the bike shop owners that carry these brands tell me so and every situation is different.
I didn't miss the point but instead have personal experience on the matter.
Look not getting into a pissing match, you want to give Yeti your money go for it. Yes all companies have their cs issues, but it was well documented on the web people waiting months for warranty replacements.
I'm not paying a premium for that kind of service. In another 5 years or so if I don't read about another Yeti cs cluster - I might consider one.
Look not getting into a pissing match, you want to give Yeti your money go for it. Yes all companies have their cs issues, but it was well documented on the web people waiting months for warranty replacements.
I'm not paying a premium for that kind of service. In another 5 years or so if I don't read about another Yeti cs cluster - I might consider one.
Yes their frames average $500 than others.
Nor am I trying to win any award for challenging your statement. I basically answered every single statement you made with a legitimate response.
Now your on to the frame price so I'll leave it at that because you'll always find a complaint.
Hopefully your Tantrum purchase will give you plenty of enjoyment as I'm sure it's going to be a great bike and I'm all for supporting these types of projects.
Canfield has AMAZING CS! Much better then when I dealt with yeti. Yeti would not let me drive to the "factory" to show them the issue (40 miles away) they wanted me to take it to a shop and ship it both way on my dime. The person I was talking to was a 30 min drive away. I'm sure someone would tell the some BS about policy and blah blah blah. But really, any Co pay worth half a shit would have said come on up and we will take a look at it. After all it was their weld that cracked after all.
I rode a 29er hardtail years ago when they came out and hated the feel of it, always wrote them off after that. back to the future, I bought an evil following off of test riding one on a whim and it's definitely the best trail bike Ive ever ridden even though I haven't fully acclimated to the feel of the bigger wheels(came from 26" SC Blur LTC).
I've got to say that evil is not kidding about their BB heights being low and extra low. I'm currently running in extra low and pedal strikes are definitely an issue to the point where I have to really be cautious of where I pedal. cornering is phenomenal, best cornering bike I've ridden. I think this is partially the bb height, partially the suspension curve and partially the larger contact patch of the tires compared to what I was used to. steep rough climbs are decent. long pedally stuff is decent. I am 5'8 with a 30 inseam and on a medium with 35mm stem and 780mm bars, feels great. jumpable but still not cramped in the saddle on climbs and extended periods of pedalling. running a 100mm reverb dropper post and at its lowest is not quite low enough for my liking but not horrible either. jumping is good, has some pop due to the progressiveness of the rear suspension. takes off ok and stable in the air, but noticably harder to throw around in the air than my blur which practically felt like a slopestyle bike. I've crashed the following a couple times due to unexpectedly not being able to bring a whip back. not that it can't be thrown around but it takes way more muscle to throw around. nearly like going from a bmx to a dh bike.
What does that have to do with anything? I am loyal to well designed bikes that make me grin ear to ear each and every ride. Lots of manufacturers make bikes that fit that description and mine happens to be Yeti.
I just don't understand why people always have to play the fanboy card ? I've ridden at least 10 different manufacturers bikes in the past couple years and I found my preference.
Ride what you own and spent your hard earned money on. As long as we're all out having fun is all that matter.
BTW the SB 5.5 is the Holy Grail 29'er even without water bottle placement in the triangle. I'd rather have outstanding ride characteristics in all aspects than room for 1 water bottle. The bike begs to be ridden way longer than that single bottle will supply you with .
Sorry my friend. Once no pack.... you never go back
OEC, spotty CS and no water bottle holder.....Yeti didn't even make my short list.
I bought a 5.5c last summer, and I'm pleased with my choice. But I overlooked my feelings re: the Tribe to do it. Although I have a pair of Yeti shorts I got on clearance from Backcountry, I don't bounce up and down over what softgoods they'll bring out next season. I recognize that they have some misfires in their bike lineup, too. To be fair, Niner has Ninerds, Turner has Homers, Specialized has people with no soul, and Ellsworth has people who like Ed Hardy T-shirts.
The 5.5c checked all the boxes I was looking for. I chose it over the Riot for those reasons, despite my overall stoke for the Canfield Brothers. And my local dealer is a personal friend, so I'm not worried about post-sale support.
Think you missed the point. Yeti doesn't really have a good CS rep from what I've read. Could be best bikes in the world- I wouldn't buy one because of the CS nightmares I've read about them combined with costing more than just about everyone else.
If you're going to price yourself at the top, your CS has to match.
Exactly that. You don't earn the rep for no reason (much like Evil).
Canfield has AMAZING CS! Much better then when I dealt with yeti. Yeti would not let me drive to the "factory" to show them the issue (40 miles away) they wanted me to take it to a shop and ship it both way on my dime. The person I was talking to was a 30 min drive away. I'm sure someone would tell the some BS about policy and blah blah blah. But really, any Co pay worth half a shit would have said come on up and we will take a look at it. After all it was their weld that cracked after all.
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When I had warranty issues I had to pay for shipping the frame to the manufacturer, but I did get the shop rate. I also had to pay for the rebuild, but it was reasonable. IMO, good turn around is less than two weeks.
That sounds like a super nice 27.5/29 combo bike and something I will be doing with my new frame I choose. I own a 26" Remedy and really like the Fox ReAktiv shock. If I bought a 29er Fuel I'm for sure building it up like yours but with XT 8000 stuff,
Originally Posted by bigwhls
My Trek Fuel EX 9.9
In 29 configuration: 140 Fox 34, MRP ramp up cartridge, Kabolt axle, low mino link setting, Nobby Nic 2.6 rubber, full Eagle XX1 drivetrain with black Eagle chain, WT oval 30t ring, 24gr AB oval chainguide, ceramic Hope "threaded" PF41 bb, Renthal Apex 35 40mm stem with carbon Fatbar lite 30mm rise 760 width bar, Lizard Skins DSP 32.2mm grips, HT trail pedals, Fox Transfer 150 post paired with WT cartridge bearing remote 1x lever, Guide Ultimate brakes with 180 Hope Floating rotors f/r, Nox Farlow 28h 30mm id hoops with I9 Torch hubs, Sapim bladed spokes, 66.2 degree h/a, 339mm bb height, 432mm chainstays, incredible performing Fox/Trek/Penske re:aktiv 130mm rear travel and the kicker.....wait for it.....25.85lbs with pedals.
27.5+ mode, all things remain the same with the addition of Nox Kitsuma 36mm id hoops shod with 2.8 Nobby Nic Apex casing rear and 3.0 Nobby Nic Apex front rubber, 180 rotors f/r. Weight balloons up to a portly 26.3lbs in 27.5+ mode.
This bike can and will compete for podiums in Enduro and XC racing.
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The Yeti 5.5c checks most of the boxes but a Fox36 is IMHO too much fork for most of my local trial riding. I have a FXR with a 36 and rode the shit out of it @ Big Bear and in Southridge Winter Series DH races and of course my local trails. I do like that fork a lot but just feel a Fox34 140mm will suit my needs.
The Riot checks all the boxes so far, shorter stays, long reach, slack HTA, 140mm travel. I'm not sure why so many bike companies wanna put less travel in the rear and can't match?
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The Yeti 5.5c checks most of the boxes but a Fox36 is IMHO too much fork for most of my local trial riding. I have a FXR with a 36 and rode the shit out of it @ Big Bear and in Southridge Winter Series DH races and of course my local trails. I do like that fork a lot but just feel a Fox34 140mm will suit my needs.
The Riot checks all the boxes so far, shorter stays, long reach, slack HTA, 140mm travel. I'm not sure why so many bike companies wanna put less travel in the rear and can't match?
I've never ridden a yeti so I can't speak on it but I have a riot and it's freaking bad. Ass best tech climbing squishy bike I've ridden
I went full dvo on my build. Topaz and diamond. Topaz was easy to set up. One band in the positive side 210 in main body 190 in bladder 3 clicks back from the fastest on rebound. And run it in wide open. I don't use the climb switch
DVO is coming out with the new Sapphire that might be better suited for 140mm travel but I have a few friends on that same set up. One on Yeti the other on Foes and they rave about DVO.
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Yeah, it kind of does really. If he mislabels his charts what else is not paying full attention to? He's already making a best guess, less than precise estimation. Lack of attention to detail on top of it makes it me even more leery.
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The Linkage program draws the graphs compressing only the rear suspension, leaving the fork at 0% sag. I build the tables by hand, measuring the bike with 25% sag front and rear, that's why if you look very closely you are going to notice a small difference between the table and the Graphs.
So it's not lack of attention to detail, it's pretty much the opposite.
The Linkage program draws the graphs compressing only the rear suspension, leaving the fork at 0% sag. I build the tables by hand, measuring the bike with 25% sag front and rear, that's why if you look very closely you are going to notice a small difference between the table and the Graphs.
So it's not lack of attention to detail, it's pretty much the opposite.
I'd like to see your graphs?
I remember mentioning those charts from Antonio to Craig at Avalanche suspension, and he did not knock them and he said they are somewhat correct, but they're not exactly correct and said sometimes they can be quite far off. He said in part because just about every bike manufacturer photo shops pictures of the bike frames and that's what Antonio is using to measure the bikes.
The Linkage program draws the graphs compressing only the rear suspension, leaving the fork at 0% sag. I build the tables by hand, measuring the bike with 25% sag front and rear, that's why if you look very closely you are going to notice a small difference between the table and the Graphs.
So it's not lack of attention to detail, it's pretty much the opposite.
I remember mentioning those charts from Antonio to Craig at Avalanche suspension, and he did not knock them and he said they are somewhat correct, but they're not exactly correct and said sometimes they can be quite far off. He said in part because just about every bike manufacturer photo shops pictures of the bike frames and that's what Antonio is using to measure the bikes.
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As you say some pictures and some drawings are photoshoped, but they are the exception, not the rule, and the funny thing is that if you know the geometry of the bike, you can tell when a picture have been modified, so you can avoid it.
I'm not perfect, but I have a lot of experience and I try my best.
So I'm looking to return to 29 FS, have ridden 29 in the past (Atlas), currently riding a Devinci Hendix 27+ and two fat bikes (Fatillac and Wozo) that I run in a variety of set ups including BFat, 27+ and 29+.
I definitely want a 29er that'll take a 2.8 at the minimum (3.0 would be better), also want swappability to 27+ if I get the urge; low bb in this set up is expected.
I love the idea of shorter travel bikes, BUT I need more than 130mm of rear travel; my overshocked Hendrix has 130mm already and it's undergunned for my riding style.
So my minimum travel needs out back are 140mm, up front 150-160mm will suffice.
I'm a big coil fan boy too, so I really want the option.
I like the Slash and Switchblade, spent a few moments on each of them and they felt good; Slash felt the cushiest of course. I'm also looking at the GG Smash.
So I'm looking to return to 29 FS, have ridden 29 in the past (Atlas), currently riding a Devinci Hendix 27+ and two fat bikes (Fatillac and Wozo) that I run in a variety of set ups including BFat, 27+ and 29+.
I definitely want a 29er that'll take a 2.8 at the minimum (3.0 would be better), also want swappability to 27+ if I get the urge; low bb in this set up is expected.
I love the idea of shorter travel bikes, BUT I need more than 130mm of rear travel; my overshocked Hendrix has 130mm already and it's undergunned for my riding style.
So my minimum travel needs out back are 140mm, up front 150-160mm will suffice.
I'm a big coil fan boy too, so I really want the option.
I like the Slash and Switchblade, spent a few moments on each of them and they felt good; Slash felt the cushiest of course. I'm also looking at the GG Smash.
Anything else available or in the pipeline?
Your on the right path, Slash and Switchblade I demoed for 7 days each. Both are great bikes that check your boxes. If the Switch blade was 1degree slacker and just a bit more travel in rear. Slash is a great bike but I thought the steering feels to slow. I would build it from frame up and make changes. Both bikes can take huge tires and 27.5 +. I here good things about the GG but never been on one. Transition 29er but not that much tire clearance but I like how they are using the lower fork offset.
I really like the New Spot Rollik 607 that just came out, 27.5 with 2.6 tires, 160mm fox 36 front and Fox DPX2 rear at 150mm. Killer bike I bet!!
I also have the 2016 Trek Fuel EX 9.9, great bike with life time Warr. 24.6 lbs
Thanks! It may a bit fussy setting it up, at one point I was going to sell it. Changed some things like Pike 150mm now on and love it. I had to put longer stem 75mm, saddle way back, now love it. The frame is one of the stiffest frames I’ve ever been on. Supper Steady on the downs, just orderd Fox DPX2 for rear with custom tune. Ethan from Maverick Suspension is the man for all your forks, shocks, dropper post service and sales. Great service with no bull crap.
Check out- Vital MTB test sessions, Which bike is fastest, 5 of the fastest 29er enduro bikes. I really enjoyed this!!
I don't buy into ANY reviews anymore. I need to ride the bike. I don't care that 423mm is too long of chain stays and 421mm is not long enough. I need to ride the bike. This came to fruition again when I read more than one review where the reviewer commented that the new Intense Tracer didn't climb well. The Tracer was on my short list to replace my Mach 6 so what did I do? I went and rode the bike. It climbs just fine, so fine that it I decided to buy one. In less than 2 weeks of owning it, I PR'd the longest climb at my local riding area....faster than I was even on my 5010.
2018 Intense Tracer
2017 Intense Primer
2016 Santa Cruz 5010
I don't buy into ANY reviews anymore. I need to ride the bike. I don't care that 423mm is too long of chain stays and 421mm is not long enough. I need to ride the bike. This came to fruition again when I read more than one review where the reviewer commented that the new Intense Tracer didn't climb well. The Tracer was on my short list to replace my Mach 6 so what did I do? I went and rode the bike. It climbs just fine, so fine that it I decided to buy one. In less than 2 weeks of owning it, I PR'd the longest climb at my local riding area....faster than I was even on my 5010.
I don't buy into ANY reviews anymore. I need to ride the bike. I don't care that 423mm is too long of chain stays and 421mm is not long enough. I need to ride the bike. This came to fruition again when I read more than one review where the reviewer commented that the new Intense Tracer didn't climb well. The Tracer was on my short list to replace my Mach 6 so what did I do? I went and rode the bike. It climbs just fine, so fine that it I decided to buy one. In less than 2 weeks of owning it, I PR'd the longest climb at my local riding area....faster than I was even on my 5010.
I agree with you 100%, that is the only way I’ll buy a bike anymore is if I get a chance to ride it and like I said one week you get a pretty good idea if you like the bike or not. I did buy the Mayham without a chance to demo it so I broke my new rule. Everybody is so different and we all ride in different places geographically, different styles you just never know if the bike is gonna work for you or not until you get on it. My local shop will rent you a bike for one week for $99, Trek, Niner and Pivot. Yes not 99/day!
I think riders can learn to like any bike given time.
Set up is key, knowing how to adjust the cockpit and suspension without outside guidance allows the rider to figure out a bike. If you gotta rely on shop folks to set up your bike, umm, not gonna work out so well.
It’s tough to find demos for every bike, for example Guerrilla Gravity Smash, nearest demo is eight hours one way. The Ibus Ripmo is so new it’ll be months before demos show up.
I’d like to think that you can know how a brand rides, compare geo, and take an educated risk. Expensive game if it doesn’t work out.
Unless of course you do more than just pedal up to go down, and like to do more than just turn over the easiest gear possible, then that stupid steep STA doesn't work. Won't get into the super daft=, absolutely insanely short ST Wondering when they're going to stop this silliness and go back to decent STAs and natural over man built berm/flow trails
Originally Posted by dgw7000
Check out the new Ibis Ripmo, this bike check's all the right spots!!
One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
Unless of course you do more than just pedal up to go down, and like to do more than just turn over the easiest gear possible, then that stupid steep STA doesn't work. Won't get into the super daft=, absolutely insanely short ST Wondering when they're going to stop this silliness and go back to decent STAs and natural over man built berm/flow trails
Seat tube angle on my Mayham is the one thing I'm strugging with, I have my seat all the back and I wish it would go back further. Very hard to get totally comfortable with. I may try a setback post to see it's the solution, my 2016 fuel ex 9.9 just feels so right. I just put on the Fox DPX2 on the Mayham so still trying to fine tune this baby!!
The Intense Primer is by far my 29" unicorn. This was the bike that converted me to a 29er fan and is my go-to for 80% of all my riding. This was the bike that made me actually want to climb more and climb faster. Once I started getting faster downhill times on my Primer than I did on my Tracer 275 I knew there was something special.
The Intense Primer is by far my 29" unicorn. This was the bike that converted me to a 29er fan and is my go-to for 80% of all my riding. This was the bike that made me actually want to climb more and climb faster. Once I started getting faster downhill times on my Primer than I did on my Tracer 275 I knew there was something special.
Posts like this just make me want the Primer even more... It's been at the top of my list for a new bike purchase this year (along with Pivot 429 Trail and Trek Fuel EX), but I'm very uncomfortable buying such an expensive bike on-line sight unseen; especially being smack-down in-between two sizes on their size chart. This new "direct to consumer" model may be great for those who know exactly what they are looking for, but for people fairly new to the sport and/or looking for their first higher-end full suspension bike, this may push them away to other brands that have local representation.
Posts like this just make me want the Primer even more... It's been at the top of my list for a new bike purchase this year (along with Pivot 429 Trail and Trek Fuel EX), but I'm very uncomfortable buying such an expensive bike on-line sight unseen; especially being smack-down in-between two sizes on their size chart. This new "direct to consumer" model may be great for those who know exactly what they are looking for, but for people fairly new to the sport and/or looking for their first higher-end full suspension bike, this may push them away to other brands that have local representation.
Intense still has a large dealer network in the USA and Canada. The best part is that the price on the website is the same as at a dealer.
Intense still has a large dealer network in the USA and Canada. The best part is that the price on the website is the same as at a dealer.
West Coast looks well represented, but the closest dealer to me here in Midwest is 5 hours away, and I'm not even sure they are still in business because they don't answer their phone (and no voicemail, either). I've also called a few dealers in Texas (I travel there frequently), and while they said they'd be happy to order one for me, no one has anything in stock. So I've been studying geometry charts, reading every forum post I can find, etc., but I'm still not sure what size I need (I'm between L and XL) and if I want to take the risk of buying a bike without riding it first.
That's why I bought my 9point8 FallLine post 2 years ago because I absolutely needed it to properly fit my Phantom as I run it in the steep setting, unlike most others who run it in slack (which is 1 degree slacker) and don't find the STA too steep
Originally Posted by dgw7000
Seat tube angle on my Mayham is the one thing I'm strugging with, I have my seat all the back and I wish it would go back further. Very hard to get totally comfortable with. I may try a setback post to see it's the solution, my 2016 fuel ex 9.9 just feels so right. I just put on the Fox DPX2 on the Mayham so still trying to fine tune this baby!!
How tall are you and what's your riding like? My friend is picking up a Primer this week, he's about 5'10" and I guided him to a Large with a 40-50mm stem going by his previous bike and how he looked when he rode my bike with 450mm reach and 70mm stem. If I was getting one, most definitely I'd be going for an XL at 6'2" with long arms and legs and be looking to run a stem in the 40-50mm range.
Originally Posted by C&L 1911
West Coast looks well represented, but the closest dealer to me here in Midwest is 5 hours away, and I'm not even sure they are still in business because they don't answer their phone (and no voicemail, either). I've also called a few dealers in Texas (I travel there frequently), and while they said they'd be happy to order one for me, no one has anything in stock. So I've been studying geometry charts, reading every forum post I can find, etc., but I'm still not sure what size I need (I'm between L and XL) and if I want to take the risk of buying a bike without riding it first.
One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
How tall are you and what's your riding like? My friend is picking up a Primer this week, he's about 5'10" and I guided him to a Large with a 40-50mm stem going by his previous bike and how he looked when he rode my bike with 450mm reach and 70mm stem. If I was getting one, most definitely I'd be going for an XL at 6'2" with long arms and legs and be looking to run a stem in the 40-50mm range.
I'm 6.2" (188 cm), 33" inseam, about 190-192 cm wingspan, 205-210 riding weight. Currently ride 2015 Cannondale Trail SL1 29er hardtail, size large. According to their geo chart, it has 441mm reach. Intense's website puts me on XL based on my height, but even their L has 12mm more reach than my current bike (453mm); XL has 477. I've never been professionally fitted on my current bike, so it's not entirely impossible that it's too small for me, but it's the only point of reference I have.
So, my height, but 2" shorter inseam, even more reason for a longer Reach with more upper body. Forgot to ask, but what stem length are you running and what bar width? Looking at pics of that bike stock, it looks like they set it up stock with about a 80-90mm stem and if that's the case, then to go to a 40-50mm stem and get the same cockpit, you'd need a Reach of between 470-480mm, so would seem the XL would be the size.
I just made the move from a bike with a 450mm Reach running a 70mm stem/785mm bar to a bike with 484mm Reach and am running a 50mm stem/770mm bar and it fits good - other bike could always have used a touch more reach, but didn't want to run longer than 70mm stem.
Originally Posted by C&L 1911
I'm 6.2" (188 cm), 33" inseam, about 190-192 cm wingspan, 205-210 riding weight. Currently ride 2015 Cannondale Trail SL1 29er hardtail, size large. According to their geo chart, it has 441mm reach. Intense's website puts me on XL based on my height, but even their L has 12mm more reach than my current bike (453mm); XL has 477. I've never been professionally fitted on my current bike, so it's not entirely impossible that it's too small for me, but it's the only point of reference I have.
One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
So, my height, but 2" shorter inseam, even more reason for a longer Reach with more upper body. Forgot to ask, but what stem length are you running and what bar width? Looking at pics of that bike stock, it looks like they set it up stock with about a 80-90mm stem and if that's the case, then to go to a 40-50mm stem and get the same cockpit, you'd need a Reach of between 470-480mm, so would seem the XL would be the size.
I just made the move from a bike with a 450mm Reach running a 70mm stem/785mm bar to a bike with 484mm Reach and am running a 50mm stem/770mm bar and it fits good - other bike could always have used a touch more reach, but didn't want to run longer than 70mm stem.
Thanks for all the help, LyNx. My bike has 90mm stem with 700mm bars. It's interesting that you think I should go with XL; I spoke with Intense rep a couple of weeks ago, and he said I should go with L based on what I told him. Also, when I was at a Pivot dealer looking at 429 Trail, they also said I should go with L, and Pivot's numbers are actually smaller across the board compared to Intense's. You can probably see why I'm torn and can't make the decision. I guess I should really take the advice of test riding before buying seriously and stay away from buying anything I can't ride... which means my list of 3 bikes to choose from just got down to 1...
So I'm looking to return to 29 FS, have ridden 29 in the past (Atlas), currently riding a Devinci Hendix 27+ and two fat bikes (Fatillac and Wozo) that I run in a variety of set ups including BFat, 27+ and 29+.
I definitely want a 29er that'll take a 2.8 at the minimum (3.0 would be better), also want swappability to 27+ if I get the urge; low bb in this set up is expected.
I love the idea of shorter travel bikes, BUT I need more than 130mm of rear travel; my overshocked Hendrix has 130mm already and it's undergunned for my riding style.
So my minimum travel needs out back are 140mm, up front 150-160mm will suffice.
I'm a big coil fan boy too, so I really want the option.
I like the Slash and Switchblade, spent a few moments on each of them and they felt good; Slash felt the cushiest of course. I'm also looking at the GG Smash.
I think the YT Jeffsey checks ALL the boxes, except one. The PF BB. 140/140 travel, FOX34 and an amazing parts spec on the CF Pro model. I'm not a fan of SRAM anything so I will most likely swap out those for XT brakes. The major downside is not being able to test ride before buying.
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I think the YT Jeffsey checks ALL the boxes, except one. The PF BB. 140/140 travel, FOX34 and an amazing parts spec on the CF Pro model. I'm not a fan of SRAM anything so I will most likely swap out those for XT brakes. The major downside is not being able to test ride before buying.
My buddy just ordered the Jeffsey, but check out the new Alchemy Arktos 29er. Life time Warr. and a great company!! Super boost rear spacing 12x157, 44 offset Fox 36 and Dave Earle developed Sine suspension. Large frame weight about 6.5 lbs, taking pre orders NOW!!
My buddy just ordered the Jeffsey, but check out the new Alchemy Arktos 29er. Life time Warr. and a great company!! Super boost rear spacing 12x157, 44 offset Fox 36 and Dave Earle developed Sine suspension. Large frame weight about 6.5 lbs, taking pre orders NOW!!
The only bike that could my pry my Avalanche/DPX2 Switchblade out of my hands.
I know personally 3 people that have the Fuel EX, I think it turned into the new crackNfail frame. They all got warrantied, good service. The trails in Fl. are not that demanding either. Good Luck with it!
Another bike from Pivot that using 12x157 rear the new Trail, no frame only on this either. This crap making you buy the whole bike is getting on my nerves!
Another bike from Pivot that using 12x157 rear the new Trail, no frame only on this either. This crap making you buy the whole bike is getting on my nerves!
I'd consider a switchblade and the new Tral. But not spending 6k on a bike that I'll then switch out half the components for better or proper fit.
You can't monopolize if people don't want to buy. I wonder how quickly they backtrack on the no frame option.
They must have gotten a killer deal on the components to not sell the frames only option. Then charge about 3000 for them. Since most carbon frames are around 2200 to 3000.
cyclism00 "I know personally 3 people that have the Fuel EX, I think it turned into the new crackNfail frame. They all got warrantied, good service. The trails in Fl. are not that demanding either. Good Luck with it!"
I started with a 2017 9.8, when that frame cracked they gave me a 2017 9.9. That one lasted 6 months before another crack and an upgrade to the 2018 9.9 with the new through shock. Been riding this one since December with no confidence that it won't fail also. Shock has just blown it's air seals and is now away for warranty repair. This is my first and definitely last Trek even though they've been really good with warranty. I'm not an out of control rider. No big jumps or drops. Very frustrating.
cyclism00 "I know personally 3 people that have the Fuel EX, I think it turned into the new crackNfail frame. They all got warrantied, good service. The trails in Fl. are not that demanding either. Good Luck with it!"
I started with a 2017 9.8, when that frame cracked they gave me a 2017 9.9. That one lasted 6 months before another crack and an upgrade to the 2018 9.9 with the new through shock. Been riding this one since December with no confidence that it won't fail also. Shock has just blown it's air seals and is now away for warranty repair. This is my first and definitely last Trek even though they've been really good with warranty. I'm not an out of control rider. No big jumps or drops. Very frustrating.
I know what your talking about! I went through 3-pivot 429sl and 1-429 trail broken frames, I do ride hard and like to jump but I take care of my bikes. After all the problems with Pivot I sold the last new frame but I also loved the Pivots. I then bought the 2016 Trek Fuel EX 9.9 the bike is over 2 years old and one of the best bikes I have ever owned not one problem. Just had my shock serviced from the Flow Zone the bike has never felt better, I love this bike. Some say the 2016 Fuel is the year to get. I found a used one on ebay for a friend xl and built it up exactly like mine his is 24.3 lbs and freaking loves it. Life time warranty on mine since I bought it new “frame only” like every bike I buy. This is one bike I will not sell. Selling my 2017 Spot Mayham large frame now on pink bike. Chris King 30mm B.B.and head set also comes with Fox 125mm dropper with Wolf Tooth remote for 1950.00.
You can't monopolize if people don't want to buy. I wonder how quickly they backtrack on the no frame option.
Yea TwoTone I wish more people would demand "frame only option". I demoed the Switchblade last weekend and I wanted to use my own grips they said no because the Pivot handlebars are cut on an angle that only use there proprietary grips. I love the new Ergon GA2 grips and my hands suffer with out them. When I returned the bike he asked how I liked the bike and I said hard to say when your hands were nump the whole time. Then I asked when are Frames available for sale, he went on the say there to many problems when trying to source the correct parts to build with 157 supper boost and the spindle size bull crap!! I going to take my time to get my next bike, The Alchemy Arktos 29er looks nice, but no reviews yet. I could buy full build Pivot Trail 429 and sell parts off but then I still need to worry about breakage problems with Pivot like before.
Then I asked when are Frames available for sale, he went on the say there to many problems when trying to source the correct parts to build with 157 supper boost and the spindle size bull crap!!
Not crap at all. That 157 Rear is the reason I didn't get this bike, even though the demo went very well.
Not crap at all. That 157 Rear is the reason I didn't get this bike, even though the demo went very well.
It is crap. A 157 rear is a 157 rear, which is a 150mm rear with 142mm end caps. Super Mario's rear hub just has different flange spacing, so you can us any 150mm rear hub that can accept 142mm end caps.
From Knolly's website:
AVAILABILITY: 150 / 157 hubs have been around for years. The only difference between the two measurements is an end cap on the hubs and slots in the dropout for the 157 width. These hubs started out having flange widths that were similar to a standard 135 or 142 hub, and while some manufacturers have stayed with that flange width many have widened their flanges in an effort to make a more durable wheel. If we look at the dedicated Super Boost plus hubs they typically have a non-drive-side hub flange distance of 41mm and a drive side distance of 28. We noticed that many manufacturers have progressed with their hub design and even though they don't call them Super Boost plus they have the same flange width. So this means there are already numerous hubs and wheels available from some great companies. Heck, you might even have a set in your garage already!
Alchemy, Knolly and Devinci sell just frames and they are 157 as well. Piviot just makes a grip of money on whole bikes. I'd have bought the switchblade a long time ago if they sold frame only.
Another bike from Pivot that using 12x157 rear the new Trail, no frame only on this either. This crap making you buy the whole bike is getting on my nerves!
Agree. I want to buy frames. I want to build them up how I want them with the wheels that I want, with the parts I want, with the suspension that I want. This is the only way to get what I want, and Pivot keeps distancing themselves further and further from what I want, while Santa Cruz and others get closer to it by not adopting marginal-improvement standards and also continually improving their lines.
"It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth
It is crap. A 157 rear is a 157 rear, which is a 150mm rear with 142mm end caps. Super Mario's rear hub just has different flange spacing, so you can us any 150mm rear hub that can accept 142mm end caps.
From Knolly's website:
AVAILABILITY: 150 / 157 hubs have been around for years. The only difference between the two measurements is an end cap on the hubs and slots in the dropout for the 157 width. These hubs started out having flange widths that were similar to a standard 135 or 142 hub, and while some manufacturers have stayed with that flange width many have widened their flanges in an effort to make a more durable wheel. If we look at the dedicated Super Boost plus hubs they typically have a non-drive-side hub flange distance of 41mm and a drive side distance of 28. We noticed that many manufacturers have progressed with their hub design and even though they don't call them Super Boost plus they have the same flange width. So this means there are already numerous hubs and wheels available from some great companies. Heck, you might even have a set in your garage already!
So yea Pivot is full of shit and just greedy.
I don’t know if I totally buy into this. I haven’t looked recently, but I thought only Onyx, XO and I9 had true SBoost flange spacing. Did DT release their SBoost hub?
And although I’m a Pivot fanboy, it pains me to admit that the only stock item on my Switchblade is the fork, and even that has been modded. XT cranks will fit. Pivot could easily offer a RaceFace spindle. The new Eagle XX1 cranks fit. The SRAM/Shimano BBs are pretty reliable. RWC offers a a nice BB for 30mm spindles. I can’t bash the company because they have always been good to me but I can understand the perspective of others.
DT released a super boost 350 but it is straight pull w/28 holes so it was a no go for me so I went with a 150mm DT 240 with the 142mm end caps.
Add me to the list of people who would be on a Switchblade if they were sold as frame only. Glad I stumbled across the Knolly Fugitive. That thing checks all the boxes for me.
Originally Posted by DrDon
I don’t know if I totally buy into this. I haven’t looked recently, but I thought only Onyx, XO and I9 had true SBoost flange spacing. Did DT release their SBoost hub?
It is crap. A 157 rear is a 157 rear, which is a 150mm rear with 142mm end caps. Super Mario's rear hub just has different flange spacing, so you can us any 150mm rear hub that can accept 142mm end caps.
From Knolly's website:
AVAILABILITY: 150 / 157 hubs have been around for years. The only difference between the two measurements is an end cap on the hubs and slots in the dropout for the 157 width. These hubs started out having flange widths that were similar to a standard 135 or 142 hub, and while some manufacturers have stayed with that flange width many have widened their flanges in an effort to make a more durable wheel. If we look at the dedicated Super Boost plus hubs they typically have a non-drive-side hub flange distance of 41mm and a drive side distance of 28. We noticed that many manufacturers have progressed with their hub design and even though they don't call them Super Boost plus they have the same flange width. So this means there are already numerous hubs and wheels available from some great companies. Heck, you might even have a set in your garage already!
So yea Pivot is full of shit and just greedy.
Point taken. I wouldn't go quite that far, but one thing is for certain: Pivot's marketing team really did a number on some people's heads with this Superboost moniker. Checking some old specs for 150 / 157 hubs I was looking at in 2015, I'm seeing:
Chris King: DS 28.5, NDS 39.6, Flange to Flange 68.1
Stans 3.30 HD: DS 28.0, NDS 35.0, Flange to Flange 63.0
Onyx: DS 27.4, NDS 38.4, Flange to Flange 65.8
TP Stealth: DS 28.8, NDS 42.7, Flange to Flange 71.5
I'm sure there are more, but those are the widest I was looking at.
Side note: AtomLab did an oddball downhill hub with room for 7 (out of 10) gears that was 78.5mm (!) Flange to Flange. I wanted that hub since I run shorter stacks of gears, but couldn't get hold of it.
Anyway, now we have people worrying about running a standard 157 hub on a "Superboost" bike. Look, if you have a 157 rear hub on a trail bike you got a super-stiff rear wheel, asymmetrical or not. If you want wider asymmetrical spacing, select that type of 157 hub. And then call it Superboost if you like.
All that being said, I think 157 is where we are headed for trail bikes. As a clyde, I'm happy about that. And I'm already riding on a 150 wheelset (same as 157 other than endcaps), and want to stick with that.
Based on the specs and other Pivots I've ridden, the Switchblade looks like it would be a joy to ride. But like many others, with no frame-only option, I'm out.
I want the new troy devinci 29 Ltd. Thinking it can be a great bike to do everything I need it to do, and its sexy as hell. No demo anywhere near me so was hoping someone here can let me know how it feels compared to the Romo my close second choice.
Point taken. I wouldn't go quite that far, but one thing is for certain: Pivot's marketing team really did a number on some people's heads with this Superboost moniker. Checking some old specs for 150 / 157 hubs I was looking at in 2015, I'm seeing:
Chris King: DS 28.5, NDS 39.6, Flange to Flange 68.1
Stans 3.30 HD: DS 28.0, NDS 35.0, Flange to Flange 63.0
Onyx: DS 27.4, NDS 38.4, Flange to Flange 65.8
TP Stealth: DS 28.8, NDS 42.7, Flange to Flange 71.5
I'm sure there are more, but those are the widest I was looking at.
Side note: AtomLab did an oddball downhill hub with room for 7 (out of 10) gears that was 78.5mm (!) Flange to Flange. I wanted that hub since I run shorter stacks of gears, but couldn't get hold of it.
Anyway, now we have people worrying about running a standard 157 hub on a "Superboost" bike. Look, if you have a 157 rear hub on a trail bike you got a super-stiff rear wheel, asymmetrical or not. If you want wider asymmetrical spacing, select that type of 157 hub. And then call it Superboost if you like.
All that being said, I think 157 is where we are headed for trail bikes. As a clyde, I'm happy about that. And I'm already riding on a 150 wheelset (same as 157 other than endcaps), and want to stick with that.
Based on the specs and other Pivots I've ridden, the Switchblade looks like it would be a joy to ride. But like many others, with no frame-only option, I'm out.
I disagree with if you have a 157 hub on a trail bike, you have a stiff wheel!! It's the rim that's the biggest contributing factor to a stiff wheel!! If you call Chris King and mention Super Boost they will giggle with laughter!!
I don’t know if I totally buy into this. I haven’t looked recently, but I thought only Onyx, XO and I9 had true SBoost flange spacing. Did DT release their SBoost hub?
And although I’m a Pivot fanboy, it pains me to admit that the only stock item on my Switchblade is the fork, and even that has been modded. XT cranks will fit. Pivot could easily offer a RaceFace spindle. The new Eagle XX1 cranks fit. The SRAM/Shimano BBs are pretty reliable. RWC offers a a nice BB for 30mm spindles. I can’t bash the company because they have always been good to me but I can understand the perspective of others.
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The other debacle is the BB92 that comes on the Pivots. For years now, they've been specing their high-end builds with Race Face Next SLs. The problem is the BB92 standard was intended for the 24mm Shimano spindle. At the same time they were developing this standard, Race Face came out with the 30mm spindle on the Nexts, which didn't leave enough room for proper bearings in the BB. It would be one thing if they were selling and telling customers "nope, sorry, we can't spec those cranks because this is a BB92 bike, you can choose from these shimano and other 24mm cranks...etc.", but that's not what happened. Because the Nexts were so light and everyone wanted them, Pivot bowed to this and speced them on the bike, knowing the BB bearings were insufficient for the task. IMO, this should mean Pivot supplies me lifetime-bearings for my BB, except I built my frame up myself, so they wouldn't be on the hook for that. For anyone that buys their bikes with Next SLs, Pivot really should be supplying lifetime bearings for the BB. There are some bigger threads about this, but this is simply a recreation of the old ISIS BB problem, where there is simply not enough room for the size bearings that are needed. All would be fine if Pivot only used the cranks that were intended for the standard.
So on one hand, they tell us all this blah blah new standard, more stiffer wheels, better for everything, boost your ride, will make your toast in the morning, etc. And on the other hand, they disregard their new standard because "well, these cranks go are lighter and go to 11".
"It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth
The other debacle is the BB92 that comes on the Pivots. For years now, they've been specing their high-end builds with Race Face Next SLs. The problem is the BB92 standard was intended for the 24mm Shimano spindle. At the same time they were developing this standard, Race Face came out with the 30mm spindle on the Nexts, which didn't leave enough room for proper bearings in the BB. It would be one thing if they were selling and telling customers "nope, sorry, we can't spec those cranks because this is a BB92 bike, you can choose from these shimano cranks...etc.", but that's not what happened. Because the Nexts were so light and everyone wanted them, Pivot bowed to this and speced them on the bike, knowing the BB bearings were insufficient for the task. IMO, this should mean Pivot supplies me lifetime-bearings for my BB, except I built my frame up myself, so they wouldn't be on the hook for that. For anyone that buys their bikes with Next SLs, Pivot really should be supplying lifetime bearings for the BB. There are some bigger threads about this, but this is simply a recreation of the old ISIS BB problem, where there is simply not enough room for the size bearings that are needed. All would be fine if Pivot only used the cranks that were intended for the standard.
So on one hand, they tell us all this blah blah new standard, more stiffer wheels, better for everything, boost your ride, will make your toast in the morning, etc. And on the other hand, they disregard their new standard because "well, these cranks go are lighter and go to 11".
I have never had a problem with bb92 on my 4-429 Pivot bikes that I've owned, Trek Fuel and now Yeti SB100. I use the Praxis BB that has the larger bearing with an outer lip, yes the steel bearing is pressed into the carbon frame, the key is to use Honda Bond around the bearing before pressed in, this creates a nice bond between the interface with no creak or movement. They press out when needed, been using Honda Bond for years now. In the Praxis install directions they even say use a RTV silicone and that's basically what Honda Bond is, very high quality RTV. Wheels Manufacture makes a nice double row bearing along with Enduro and Hope that allows a larger contract point for interface into carbon frame. The key is the bond that never washes away and prevents any movement!!
The other debacle is the BB92 that comes on the Pivots. For years now, they've been specing their high-end builds with Race Face Next SLs. The problem is the BB92 standard was intended for the 24mm Shimano spindle. At the same time they were developing this standard, Race Face came out with the 30mm spindle on the Nexts, which didn't leave enough room for proper bearings in the BB. It would be one thing if they were selling and telling customers "nope, sorry, we can't spec those cranks because this is a BB92 bike, you can choose from these shimano cranks...etc.", but that's not what happened. Because the Nexts were so light and everyone wanted them, Pivot bowed to this and speced them on the bike, knowing the BB bearings were insufficient for the task. IMO, this should mean Pivot supplies me lifetime-bearings for my BB, except I built my frame up myself, so they wouldn't be on the hook for that. For anyone that buys their bikes with Next SLs, Pivot really should be supplying lifetime bearings for the BB. There are some bigger threads about this, but this is simply a recreation of the old ISIS BB problem, where there is simply not enough room for the size bearings that are needed. All would be fine if Pivot only used the cranks that were intended for the standard.
So on one hand, they tell us all this blah blah new standard, more stiffer, better for everything, will make your toast in the morning, etc. And on the other hand, they disregard their standard because "well, these cranks go are lighter and go to 11".
I have never had a problem with bb92 on my 4-429 Pivot bikes that I've owned, Trek Fuel and now Yeti SB100. I use the Praxis BB that has the larger bearing with an outer lip, yes the steel bearing is pressed into the carbon frame, the key is to use Honda Bond around the bearing before pressed in, this creates a nice bond between the interface with no creak or movement. They press out when needed, been using Honda Bond for years now. In the Praxis install directions they even say use a RTV silicone and that's basically what Honda Bond is, very high quality RTV. Wheels Manufacture makes a nice double row bearing along with Enduro and Hope that allows a larger contract point for interface into carbon frame. The key is the bond that never washes away and prevents any movement!!
Its not about movement or creaking, it’s about undersized bearings. I’ve had this problem and so have many others. Do some research on it.
30mm spindles work fine with PF30, as originally intended.
"It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth
You do the research!! It is a larger bearing with no sleeve around the bearing. It's just a larger bearing with an outer lip "no sleeve" That's why you need the RTV.
The BB92/ 30 is admittedly not a great standard but Enduro Bearing BB's that RWC sells are dual row max bearings with the outer race at 41mm. The Wheels Manufacturing BB92/ 30 BB's are also dual row max bearings. They are very strong and durable bearings for that standard. I've been using Locktite 609 pF adhesive on my PF BB's for years. Works perfectly and presses out when you need it to. Never hammer out a press fit BB!
I also think the whole super boost 157 is blown way out of proportion. A well built boost or even 142 hub wheel with good carbon rims is as stiff as needed for most trail bikes. Pivot used it for more clearance to get that Switchblade RC as short as it is. Other than that it came from older DH bike designs with 83mm BB's and most of those did'nt even have wide flange spacing.
The BB92/ 30 is admittedly not a great standard but Enduro Bearing BB's that RWC sells are dual row max bearings with the outer race at 41mm. The Wheels Manufacturing BB92/ 30 BB's are also dual row max bearings. They are very strong and durable bearings for that standard. I've been using Locktite 609 pF adhesive on my PF BB's for years. Works perfectly and presses out when you need it to. Never hammer out a press fit BB!
I also think the whole super boost 157 is blown way out of proportion. A well built boost or even 142 hub wheel with good carbon rims is as stiff as needed for most trail bikes. Pivot used it for more clearance to get that Switchblade RC as short as it is. Other than that it came from older DH bike designs with 83mm BB's and most of those did'nt even have wide flange spacing.
I got the Hope BB, which is the same as the Enduro one, but my beef is Pivot specking something that they know sucks. You can’t tell us how great this standard is and then shoot yourself in the knee and use a product that can’t take advantage of it. That would be like using 142 hub flange spacing and position on super-boost, where you would not get the benifit of the equal spoke tension and the stiffer wheel.
"It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth
I have never had a problem with bb92 on my 4-429 Pivot bikes that I've owned, Trek Fuel and now Yeti SB100. I use the Praxis BB that has the larger bearing with an outer lip, yes the steel bearing is pressed into the carbon frame, the key is to use Honda Bond around the bearing before pressed in, this creates a nice bond between the interface with no creak or movement. They press out when needed, been using Honda Bond for years now. In the Praxis install directions they even say use a RTV silicone and that's basically what Honda Bond is, very high quality RTV. Wheels Manufacture makes a nice double row bearing along with Enduro and Hope that allows a larger contract point for interface into carbon frame. The key is the bond that never washes away and prevents any movement!!
I read his point as Pivot won't sell frame only because of the lack of SuperDuper rear hubs (even though any 150 will work) yet take the opposite approach with cranks and spec a subpar combination with BB92 and 30mm spindles
Actually HOPE now do a 157 DH hub that's made to only use/run 7 cogs, so guessing runs the same length freehub body as the SS hub, builds a dishless wheel with normal rim. Only way to actually build a dishless wheel with 157 Super Boost" is to use an offset drilled rim, if not you end up with a dished wheel.
I think you're right about 150/157 being the defacto standard for trail bikes, good thing Banshee also had that thought, 6 years ago when they released the Prime
Originally Posted by JACKL
............Plain old facts.................
Side note: AtomLab did an oddball downhill hub with room for 7 (out of 10) gears that was 78.5mm (!) Flange to Flange. I wanted that hub since I run shorter stacks of gears, but couldn't get hold of it.
Anyway, now we have people worrying about running a standard 157 hub on a "Superboost" bike. Look, if you have a 157 rear hub on a trail bike you got a super-stiff rear wheel, asymmetrical or not. If you want wider asymmetrical spacing, select that type of 157 hub. And then call it Superboost if you like.
All that being said, I think 157 is where we are headed for trail bikes. As a clyde, I'm happy about that. And I'm already riding on a 150 wheelset (same as 157 other than endcaps), and want to stick with that.
Based on the specs and other Pivots I've ridden, the Switchblade looks like it would be a joy to ride. But like many others, with no frame-only option, I'm out.
That doesn't happen with Super Boost 157, not unless you use an offset drilled rim, trust me, been running a 150 rear for years now with both regular spacing and wider "Super Boost" type.
Originally Posted by Jayem
I got the Hope BB, which is the same as the Enduro one, but my beef is Pivot specking something that they know sucks. You can’t tell us how great this standard is and then shoot yourself in the knee and use a product that can’t take advantage of it. That would be like using 142 hub flange spacing and position on super-boost, where you would not get the benifit of the equal spoke tension and the stiffer wheel.
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Originally Posted by skinnybex
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Wondering when they're going to stop this silliness and go back to decent STAs and natural over man built berm/flow trails 
I guess I should really take the advice of test riding before buying seriously and stay away from buying anything I can't ride... which means my list of 3 bikes to choose from just got down to 1... 
