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  1. #1
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    Help me decide - Salsa El Mariachi or Ritchey P29er or something completely different

    Hi everyone,

    i know these two are really not that comparable, but in some ways they are; they are both made out of steel, both look nice and... well, some geo are comparable as well!

    Well, you need to help me decide which one of these i should buy, or if you have something completely different you think i should look at please shout it out loud!

    #1. Salsa El Mariachi (Salsa Cycles | Bikes | El Mariachi SS)
    Pros: Good looking, seems bulletproof, great dropouts, stiff
    Cons: A wee bit heavier then the Ritchey, a little bit long TT


    Ritchey P29er (Ritchey Logic - Frames - P-29er)
    Pros: Brings back memories, nice tubes, light, stiff (at least what they say)
    Cons: Maybe a bit boring geo (though shorter TT then Salsa), little bit longer CS then Salsa


    Basically what im looking for is something awesome to replace my 2008 Marin Pine Mountain with! I think i want it to be a little bit more fun/playful, most measurements for the Marin PM is shorter then both above, so i dont know why im looking at these it doesnt make any sense at all ;-)

    I mostly ride technical trails like these Höst i Hellas 2008 on Vimeo (Courtesy of Rackelfilm for the beautiful movie) and i ride singlespeed. Im quite light and i like to ride with a smooth style.

    What any bike can offer that the Marin cant is stiffness, in all directions! I have beaten this bike for the last four years and it has really degraded in stiffness.

    OK, so here's a mission for you all - find me my next bike. Enlighten me, im lost...

    Best Regards,
    Kaliz

  2. #2
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    Fun and playful? I have had the El Mariachi. Great bike but not fun/playful, IMO. Check out the Canfield Nimble 9's. I love mine (also set up SS).

  3. #3
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    Agreed, the El Mar is fun, and with the steel fork is agile enough but it's not the nimblest bike out there. More of an SUV feel.
    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

  4. #4
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    Canyon | Mountainbikes | Grand Canyon CF SLX 29 8.9
    Canyon ships to Sweden. This is a new model carbon(6yr warranty) with excellent geo. Couple of wins in competition already. TransAlp and Leadville 100.
    Here is some background.
    Canyon Presents 2013 CF SLX Carbon Hard Tail 29"ers
    Grand Canyon CF SLX 29 2013 - english - YouTube

  5. #5
    LFJ
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    Ritchey

    Ritchey all the way.
    This particular el mariachi ss can not be set up with gears whereas the Ritchey can if you ever want to .
    The Ritchey is lighter. What most people don't realize is that the Salsa frame is almost as heavy as a karate monkey if not equal in weight to a karate monkey.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaliz View Post
    Hi everyone,

    i know these two are really not that comparable, but in some ways they are; they are both made out of steel, both look nice and... well, some geo are comparable as well!

    Well, you need to help me decide which one of these i should buy, or if you have something completely different you think i should look at please shout it out loud!

    #1. Salsa El Mariachi (Salsa Cycles | Bikes | El Mariachi SS)
    Pros: Good looking, seems bulletproof, great dropouts, stiff
    Cons: A wee bit heavier then the Ritchey, a little bit long TT


    Ritchey P29er (Ritchey Logic - Frames - P-29er)
    Pros: Brings back memories, nice tubes, light, stiff (at least what they say)
    Cons: Maybe a bit boring geo (though shorter TT then Salsa), little bit longer CS then Salsa


    Basically what im looking for is something awesome to replace my 2008 Marin Pine Mountain with! I think i want it to be a little bit more fun/playful, most measurements for the Marin PM is shorter then both above, so i dont know why im looking at these it doesnt make any sense at all ;-)

    I mostly ride technical trails like these Höst i Hellas 2008 on Vimeo (Courtesy of Rackelfilm for the beautiful movie) and i ride singlespeed. Im quite light and i like to ride with a smooth style.

    What any bike can offer that the Marin cant is stiffness, in all directions! I have beaten this bike for the last four years and it has really degraded in stiffness.

    OK, so here's a mission for you all - find me my next bike. Enlighten me, im lost...

    Best Regards,
    Kaliz

  6. #6
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    Spot Brand Rocker? I find it to be nimble/playful but also pretty stable as well. The 69deg headtube is perfect IMO. The dropouts allow you to run it geared or SS (chain or belt).

  7. #7
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    I've never ridden the Ritchey - it looks like a great bike. I've got a 2012 size XL El Mar, and it is by far my favorite frame ever. Downside is that it is a bit heavy, but it rides so great, it makes me no longer want to ride my other lighter bikes. On the other hand, no steel frame will be that much lighter. The alternator dropouts work great for SS, or just for adjusting your cs length to preference with gears. I've never had any problems with them slipping, and they are easy to adjust and align. IMHO the 44mm head tube on the El Mar is a huge advantage - It gives you the option to run a tapered steerer , but even with a straight steerer, it helps the front end track better. I've ridden lighter steel frames that feel a bit more "springy", but on the other hand, the El Mar is one of the more responsive pedaling steel frames I've tried, and still feels very forgiving to me over rocks.

    I bought mine as a 2 complete with gears and tapered steerer Reba, then got a Cromoto Grande fork and switched it to a rigid geared, then converted it to rigid SS, and now I've put on a straight steerer Fox Terralogic fork. I've loved the bike in all configurations, though I think the current one is my overall favorite for the trails I ride.

    With the 468mm ac Salsa rigid fork, I did notice that the bb was low enough that I would sometimes get pedal strikes with 180mm cranks, though it was never much of a problem. The head angle feels different but great to me in all three cases (468mm rigid with zero stack headset, 100mm travel suspension with zs headset, 100mm travel with ec headset ).

  8. #8
    LFJ
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    light

    When you say no steel frame will be that much lighter. I have to disagree. The el M is probably 6+ pounds for the frame only. A good steel frame could easily be 2lbs lighter. I am not saying the Ritchey is 2lbs lighter as I do not know the exact weight of the Ritchey.


    Quote Originally Posted by MarkJ70 View Post
    I've never ridden the Ritchey - it looks like a great bike. I've got a 2012 size XL El Mar, and it is by far my favorite frame ever. Downside is that it is a bit heavy, but it rides so great, it makes me no longer want to ride my other lighter bikes. On the other hand, no steel frame will be that much lighter. The alternator dropouts work great for SS, or just for adjusting your cs length to preference with gears. I've never had any problems with them slipping, and they are easy to adjust and align. IMHO the 44mm head tube on the El Mar is a huge advantage - It gives you the option to run a tapered steerer , but even with a straight steerer, it helps the front end track better. I've ridden lighter steel frames that feel a bit more "springy", but on the other hand, the El Mar is one of the more responsive pedaling steel frames I've tried, and still feels very forgiving to me over rocks.

    I bought mine as a 2 complete with gears and tapered steerer Reba, then got a Cromoto Grande fork and switched it to a rigid geared, then converted it to rigid SS, and now I've put on a straight steerer Fox Terralogic fork. I've loved the bike in all configurations, though I think the current one is my overall favorite for the trails I ride.

    With the 468mm ac Salsa rigid fork, I did notice that the bb was low enough that I would sometimes get pedal strikes with 180mm cranks, though it was never much of a problem. The head angle feels different but great to me in all three cases (468mm rigid with zero stack headset, 100mm travel suspension with zs headset, 100mm travel with ec headset ).

  9. #9
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    That ritchey frame simply oozes awesome. I want to justify it so bad (I leave a spare hook in the garage waiting for it).

  10. #10
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    I have to agree with what someone said earlier...I have a Mariachi and would not necessarily consider it fun and playful. The top tube is long, which I like. Overall, I love the bike, but might not be what you're looking for.

  11. #11
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    I'd go with the el mar, great bike... i disagree with the suv feel comment, its more nimble then one might suspect
    "Events in the past may be roughly divided into those which probably never happened and those which do not matter."

  12. #12
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    I've never ridden either of these frames, but the weight difference can be found on the websites of the manufacturers: 5.5lbs for El Mar, 4.7 for the Ritchey, both in size L.

    On the El Mar SS, there are different Alternator dropouts available for geared vs. SS vs. thru-axle. According to Salsa's website, they even have special Alternator dropouts for Rolhoff hubs. My word of warning on the El Mar SS is that they only were supposed to make 300 of them, so there may not be any more available.

  13. #13
    AOK
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    Another vote for Canfield Nimble 9. Agile, playful geometry. Smooth ride for a HT. Can be set up as SS or geared. An all around great bike.

  14. #14
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    Damnit, this does'nt help me decide at all ;-) The Nimble9 is awesome and is more what im looking for geometry-wise. I have also looked at the new Carver Ti420 (Ti 420) which also looks awesome.

    Well, the Salsa might not be what i am looking for then and i should buy the Ritchey just to put it on the wall ;-)

  15. #15
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    If you're in europe, look hard at the Canyons. I have an AL29 and it's a great frame. The build specs are superb for the price.
    But...I'd take one of those Ritcheys in a hearbeat.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surferbruce View Post
    If you're in europe, look hard at the Canyons. I have an AL29 and it's a great frame. The build specs are superb for the price.
    But...I'd take one of those Ritcheys in a hearbeat.
    I am very much in Europe, but in what way do Canyons offer me i want? I cant find a single single-speed frame at the Canyon site. Of course i can find some obscure EBB-conversion BB, but i rather have either sliding dropouts or a BB shell more or less designed for EBB.

    Am i missing something in the Canyon site?

    /* Kaliz */

  17. #17
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    And for the record, im now looking for something more nimble. The Canfield Nimble9, Carver ti420 and some others are undergoing web-ocular inspections right now.

    Damn it, tomorow im probably looking at pure XC-racing frames ;-)


    /* Kaliz */

  18. #18
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    Oh, you're in EU? A frame that I've always found to be absolutely beautiful is 2Soul Cycles QH I have no idea how much they cost, but they look amazing. Similar geo to the Nimble9. Another frame to look at is the Kona Honzo, although it's a bit more heavy than the Nimble9. I'm also not crazy about the looks and color selection.

  19. #19
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    The Canyon CF is 23.1lbs/10.50. AL 7.9 1k more. At that weight without a light weight wheelset SS could be a choice of not shifting on your technical loop. I do that for the first loop as warmup and then downshift to run again in the next more difficult gear single when warmed up. But I use my front 42 and small rears on a several mile cool down high speed blast back to the park entrance to end. I'm adding a + rear derailleur to get everything quiet.

  20. #20
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    Something Completely Different.

  21. #21
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    I think I'd really like the geometry of the Nimble 9, but have been put off by the reports of heel strikes on the stays. I hate (really hate) heavy tires, so I have no appreciation for a frame that sacrifices heel clearance for tire clearance. (I've yet to find any situation where my 1.9 Kenda Karma on the rear is not adequate and its fast and light). I can appreciate bigger front tires (to a point), but anyway, that's my worry about a Nimble 9.

  22. #22
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    If you can actually get your hands on one the ss el mar frames I would do that. Only 500 of those things! If it were between the normal el mar and the ritchey, I'd get the ritchey just to be different and rock that paint fade. If I were in the market for a steel 29er I'd probably buy a Gunnar. Semi custom at no charge, awesome tube set, fair price, American made.
    "if you can't be good, be good at it."

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaliz View Post

    Damn it, tomorow im probably looking at pure XC-racing frames ;-)
    /
    The Grand Canyon CF won the 8 day TransAlp(2 bike team) this July and in Colorado the Leadville 100 this August with sponsored riders.
    It competes with the Scott Scale 910 frameset, a 650 version of which Nino Schurter won the UCI XC World Championship this year.

  24. #24
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    Somehow I missed the whole SS deal. Forget Canyon, go with the Ritchey!

  25. #25
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    Well, if you ,re from europe this will made easier this
    Why don,t go for a custom frame?? http://www.cyclobicycles.com/indexb_eng.html i, m talking with these guys and are really efficient.....and the price for a custom frame it,s ok....

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