• 11-25-2012
    peter19ue
    Help me decide - S Works Stumpjumper or Tallboy Ltc
    I am deciding between purchasing a used 2012 S Works Specialized Stumpjumper 29er with a front Rock Shox and XX components or a new Santa Cruz Tallboy LTc 29er with xtr components and a Fox talus or float shock. Pricing is about the same. Which bike would you recommend. Any advantages or disadvantages of either. I mostly ride trails around the Northern California foothills.

    Thanks
  • 11-25-2012
    JeepDave
    Id go with the S-Works for the reason that Santa Cruz customer service is freaking terrible. Which is why the shop I work for doesn't carry the brand anymore.
  • 11-26-2012
    c-wal
    Have had both and I would say sworks.
  • 11-26-2012
    Captain Cobb
    LTc! Fox fork, Shimano components. Or, Intense Spider Comp.
  • 11-26-2012
    Rev. 14
    Not sure what happened to JeepDave and not saying he didn't have difficulty with them, but my customer service from Santa Cruz has been really outstanding and if you search around you'll see more times than not this is the case.

    Specialized comes in usually more expensive and offers you less for your money, I say that is a huge disadvantage. For example, you are looking at a used Spec vs a new Tallboy LTc.

    Go with the LTc, the advantage is brand new everything and XTR, and the FOX 140 fork is outstanding. Have you rode them is the question and what were your impressions? I can tell you I love the LTc by the time I've spent on it but what matters is have your spent time on these bikes?
  • 11-26-2012
    Scimitar
    I would lean towards the Stumpjumper personally. I find that the suspension setup on the Stumpy to be better than on the santa cruz. If you're really worried about used vs new then stick with new but I think you'd be better served on the Specialized.
  • 11-26-2012
    fruitafrank
    Stumpy vs TBLTc
    I haven't ridden the S-Works but my wife has the W specific Stumpy and my fav. local shop is a Specialize dealer. When I bought my TBLTc I looked at the S-Works. The S was considerably more expensive than the LTc . The S had a 32mm fork and the brain shock rear. My wife's bike went 1 year before needing rear shock re-build. The Sram shifters went bad after 3 months, the wheels were heavy but not the same as S-works. I ride 4 days for every 1 she rides and I have had no problems with either my original TBc or my newer TBLTc. My first Blur [way back] cracked a frame after 3 years and Santa Cruz sent a new frame, no cost. The TBLTc has 34mm fork, a solid tested VPP system, very natural easy to ride handling. As for warranty I would rate SantaCruz as one of the best. I have E-mailed them about sus tuning and you get a quick response directly, not having to go thru a dealer. As everyone says demo the bikes you will know which one.
  • 11-26-2012
    mlx john
    VPP>horst link brain (my previous bike was a carbon FSR w/brain)

    XTR is sweet

    Factory Fox 34 140 CTD

    LTc frame with the short links is stiffer

    Note: I am biased, but have had experience with FSR suspension.

    S-Works consists of 4 seperate monocoque structures which are bonded together.
    FACT IS
    FACT IS our most advanced carbon construction method. By separating the frame into four large monocoque structures—head tube/top tube/down tube, seat tube, seatstays, and one-piece bottom bracket chainstay—this method allows the carbon fibers to run continuously from tube to tube, offering advantages in weight, stiffness, and strength.


    Santa Cruz LTc carbon frame
    1) One piece lay-up and curing.
    By laying up and curing the front triangle all at the same time, and not assembling together pieces, we're able to decrease the amount of material used by eliminating overlapping joints that have to be bonded or wrapped with carbon. Less material means fewer grams. This method is extremely expensive to do, since each size has to have a lot of dedicated tooling, nothing is shared between each size.

    2) Continuing fibers around tube junctions.
    The one-piece lay-up of the front triangle allows continuous fibers to be used that wrap between tubes, allowing the structure to distribute loads better, and absorb impact energy. We also are able to truly integrate the shock mounts, pivot mounts, dropouts and disc brake tabs into the structure, using all uni-directional carbon plies. The shock mount isn't merely riveted or bonded on after curing, but an integrated part of the fiber lay-up. This makes our carbon frames incredibly strong and able to absorb impact better than any other frames we've tested.
  • 11-26-2012
    peter19ue
    okay to complicate things lets say the sworks was priced the same as a new ltc with XL components instead of XLR components. Would you lean more towards the used Sworks or new ltc with XL components.
  • 11-26-2012
    redmr2_man
    new ltc with xt (i think you typed xl on accident?) without a doubt.

    A used specialized is well...just don't. haha
  • 11-26-2012
    wmac
    I would want to be the original owner of a carbon frame.
  • 11-26-2012
    mrmas
    Having a warranty on a carbon frame is important to me…I don’t care what videos have been posted online showing its strength.
  • 11-26-2012
    peter19ue
    It is a tough decision. I can get a brand new tallboy ltc with all xl components and custom wheels for around $4500 through colorado cyclist. If I do go that route which custom wheels should I have them build for me. I weight about 195lbs and am 6'1". I normally ride the trails around the Auburn area. I rode them both and liked both bikes. I can get a used sworks for about the same. If you buy a used bike does the warranty transfer. This is a tough decision. Thanks for all your help.

    P.S. Is it worth spending the $1200 upgrade price to go from XL to XLR components
  • 11-26-2012
    mlx john
    ^^^^Spez is stringent on proving ownership on their warranties. Original owner only, does not transfer.

    LTc w/ XT is my vote.

    SC customer service has always treated me and our customers well. You can actually call their number (find it under contact us on website) and talk to a human.
  • 11-26-2012
    peter19ue
    If I do get a new ltc with XT through colorado cyclist should I go with the crest, arch, or flow wheels. Are the stock hubs fine or is it worth upgrading. Also, is it better to go with the talas of float shock. If you were building this bike what options or upgrades would you be sure to include. There are so many damn choices. Thanks for all the help!
  • 11-26-2012
    mrmas
    The warranty won’t transfer, to my knowledge. The biggest difference between the XT and XTR is weight. They both function flawlessly and nearly identically.
    Are you in Auburn, Al? I ride up there from time to time as my brother lives there. Props to the CAMP guys up there for what they have accomplished. There is some world class single track up there. Have you been up to the new trail in Aniston yet?
  • 11-26-2012
    peter19ue
    I'm actually near Auburn California but my brother lives in Burmingham. Probably going to go the XL route since I'm just a weekend warrior and want something that is durable and will last a long time
  • 11-26-2012
    mrmas
    Due to your weight you will want to stick with Arch or Flows. I am riding Arch's(I am over the weight limit) with no problem. LOVE STANS! Hands down the best purchase I have made in tandem with going tubeless.
  • 11-26-2012
    Rev. 14
    Skip the Talas fork, most never really take advantage of its flexibility, they just set it and keep it that way, plus it weighs more.

    As far as XT vs XTR, well you have to ask yourself if you have the money. If you have the money, then I say yes, go XTR. The XTR shifting is much more smoother, crisper, and easier IMO. Brakes are a bit stronger than the XT brakes, I found it to be noticeable, but hey XT brakes really kick ass too. Cranks, well there is no real noticeable difference accept for weight. You'll for sure save some weight on the bike by going with XTR, if your into saving weight.

    Figure it this way, you'll be the new owner of Tallboy LTc, register it with SC and no worries about the warranty transfer! Any problems, give SC a call and they are on it. They have helped me over the phone many times and I am not a dealer or anything like that.

    I know diamondback and trek don't do warranty transfers so it doesn't surprise me that Spec is the same way.
  • 11-26-2012
    redmr2_man
    It's a tough call. The talas is a more progressive, crappier fork than the float. But travel adjust is nice to have in some northern california spots. I ride auburn a few times a week and w/o travel adjust on my ibis, I'd be pulling wheelies on some spots on connector and a few of the climbs from the river (doc gordons, upper clementine road, ruckachucky, ranch trail, squaw trail).

    You can't really go wrong with either bike, but I think a tallboy LTc with XT is a great doitall bike for anything you can throw at it. It's "the" bike of choice that yuba expeditions is pushing for downieville. I think the stock wheels are dt350s to wtb i23s. They're not super light, but they get great reviews. Really depends on your weight for the stans wheels.
  • 11-26-2012
    peter19ue
    Well I plan on keeping this bike for a long time but don't know if I want to spend the extra $1200 to go from XT to XTR

    Which wheels would you have colorado cyclist buile for you. Should I go with the crest, arch, or flow wheels. Are the stock hubs fine or is it worth upgrading Any other upgrades I should include.
  • 11-26-2012
    wmac
    There are so many options because there are so many variables in the purchase process. A couple thoughts:

    1. I would buy new carbon frame for warranty. I'm willing to bet that S-Works was raced this past season and is due for some $$$ replacement parts.
    2. XT vs XTR will net you about 1 lb with marginal performance gain - Is 1 lb worth $1200 to you?
    3. Some of that weight is saved in the XTR cassette, chain rings and chain, which wear out faster than XT - can you afford to royce them once a year?
    4. Talas gives travel adjustment - most people don't use it.
    5. Take a step back and figure out what your current bike isn't doing for you and approach it from that angle. What do you want the bike to do for you - and then decide what you want in a bike. I'm not suggestingmyoumarema Noob, but the http://forums.mtbr.com/beginners-cor...de-811009.html may help you.
  • 11-26-2012
    peter19ue
    I had no idea that the link above existed. Thanks for posting it.The Sworks has only seen 25 miles but now I am leaning towards a new ltc for the warranty. XL will probably be fine given the riding I do. Now I just have to decide on wheels
  • 11-26-2012
    wmac
    This might help you find the right size: Fit Calculator - Competitive Cyclist
  • 11-26-2012
    peter19ue
    Should I also upgrade to Float CTD k for + $205 or not
  • 11-26-2012
    wmac
    Depends on if you'll use it or not: http://forums.mtbr.com/santa-cruz/tr...-k-803166.html
  • 11-26-2012
    peter19ue
    okay, I'm going with then float shock so I probably wont need it
  • 11-26-2012
    fruitafrank
    TBLTc or Stumpy
    I would stick with the XT package from SC and go for diff. wheels. I have the stock WTB wheels and they are not bad at all, you might save a little weight with Stans Arch-EX. The Santa Cruz site has a size chart and I think its on. The bike rides high in the front and a long cockpit isn't needed IMO. I would stick with the Fox Float not the Talus. I went with the Maxxis Ardent 2.4 in front, and I would check to see if the XT rear derr. is the new plus type. The plus rear derr. is the only change I would make ASAP.
  • 11-26-2012
    peter19ue
    Thinks that's what I'm gonna do. Order one from Colorado Cyclist with arch x wheels and xt components except for xtr brakes and the float shock. They are all out of 2012 frames in Xl so I will have to go with the 2013 with the $200 rear shock upgrade. Thanks for all the help. I like getting a warranty if I buy new since I plan on keeping this bike a long time.
  • 11-29-2012
    peter19ue
    Okay, so time to make a final decision. Here is the info regarding the two bikes I am looking at. The LTc is about $150 cheaper.Will purchase one or the other within the next few days.

    First bike is a 2012 tallboy ltc, about 2 months old, with spxam29 build and rock shox revelation shocks. Everyhing else is stock.

    Second bike is a 2012 S Works Stumpjumper with about 25 hrs on it. It has XX components, X2 cranks, Rock Shox revelation front shock and SRAM wheels. Rear is a Rise 40 and the front is an X9 hub (20mm thru-axle) with a Stans No-tubes ZTR Flow front rim.

    This will be my first 29er and I primarily ride the Auburn area in Norther California. Which one should I buy????
  • 11-29-2012
    redmr2_man
    you can't really go wrong with either. But if both bikes are used, I think santa cruz helps with crash replacement alot better than a used specialized.

    I personally like vpp/dw over fsr for nothern california trails, but those stumpys are nice and plush. XX is really nice, but the tallboy ltc is getting insanely good reviews.

    I really don't think you can go wrong man. Ride both around and pick what fits better
  • 11-29-2012
    peter19ue
    Yeah, touch decision. Rode both a lrc XL and a stumpjumper expert evo at the lbc and both felt great. The stumpy did feel a little smaller and more nimble but both rode great. Would you say the XX comonenets are better than the XT.
  • 11-29-2012
    Rev. 14
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by peter19ue View Post
    Yeah, touch decision. Rode both a lrc XL and a stumpjumper expert evo at the lbc and both felt great. The stumpy did feel a little smaller and more nimble but both rode great. Would you say the XX comonenets are better than the XT.

    XX is SRAM's best, and yes it is better than XT. XX is like XTR on Shimano, you get significant weight savings on both XX and XTR and performance increases, but you will pay and pay big.
  • 11-29-2012
    holiday
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by peter19ue View Post
    Yeah, touch decision. Rode both a lrc XL and a stumpjumper expert evo at the lbc and both felt great. The stumpy did feel a little smaller and more nimble but both rode great. Would you say the XX comonenets are better than the XT.

    I'd go stumpy. xx better, yes.
    i ride in auburn quite a bit, grew up there and get down from tahoe in the snow season.
    stumpy is more plush and lower center, tallboy is... tall and the suspension seems designed to keep it tall by keeping it's pedaling platform.
    as a weekend warrior riding in auburn, you probably don't need the fox 34 for, the 32 is plenty unless you are a heavy hammer or are looking at bigger air.

    the yeti sb95 is GREAT as well. heavier, but works as well or better then both imo. stop by auburn bike works and check it out.

    cheers,
    Holiday
  • 11-29-2012
    Bad Radiation
    I agree with the carbon-warranty folks - but that goes for any major component - You want to protect your investment if you plan to keep it for a while.
    I recently purchased a used 2012 S-Works SJ FSR with Roval "crabon" wheelset and Fox 34 Talas 140 fork. I then added full XTR with the exception of the crankset.
    For me, the suspension is a delight. Implacable when out of the saddle and baby-butt smooth when cruising the rough stuff.
    The Tallboy ltc was on my list (as it the RIP9 RDO) but the deal was too good to pass up.

    Not sure what kind of riding is in Auburn CA, but it sounds like either bike would suit you.
    Faced with your decision (given that used S-Works wheelset and component mix) I would ride them both. As many others have said - you are in a good position and can't screw this up too much :)

    If you can get Specialized warranty (somehow) - then that should seal the deal for the SJ

    Happy Trails!

    BR
  • 11-30-2012
    Rev. 14
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by holiday View Post
    stumpy is more plush and lower center, tallboy is... tall and the suspension seems designed to keep it tall by keeping it's pedaling platform.

    Just curious, have you rode the Tallboy LTc? You say "seems" sounds like you may not have spent time on one to make a comparison to your stumpy, however I could be wrong, maybe you have.

    Just an FYI, you want to know the difference in BB heights, the stumpy 29er is 13.41 inches tall and the Tallboy LTc is 13.4 even, so I would say technically- the Tallboy LTc has a lower BB therefore a touch "lower center" as you would say, compared to the stumpy. As far as money going farther though, on the Tallboy LTc you get much more components and all for a better price, Spec is a bit more expensive to get the same equivalent.

    IDK what you mean by "suspension seems designed to keep it tall by keeping it's pedaling platform."
  • 11-30-2012
    peter19ue
    The only ltc the bike store had was an XL and if felt a little big for me. Maybe I need to try a L before I make my final decision. BTW I am 6'1" about 195lbs and me inseam is 34-35 inches.
  • 11-30-2012
    redmr2_man
    ^he's comparing two used bikes, so new pricing doesn't matter. But yes, the tallboy would be the better deal new.

    FSR bikes tend to sit deeper in their travel than vpp bikes. That's what he was probably getting at.
  • 11-30-2012
    wmac
    Buying an expensive, used, carbon frame is not something I would do. You have been warned.
  • 11-30-2012
    jayseakay
    I agree with above
  • 11-30-2012
    peter19ue
    maybe I would be better off getting a new ltc through colorado cyclist. The extra $$ would probably be worth the piece of mind.
  • 11-30-2012
    wmac
    Agree!
  • 11-30-2012
    Silly Man
    XL for you. 2 buddies on LTc. 5'10" on a Large, 6' on an XL.

    At 5'5", I ride the Medium.

    We all have 50mm stem and 750mm bars.

    Sylvain
  • 11-30-2012
    peter19ue
    good to know. Thanks for all the help guys
  • 11-30-2012
    John Kuhl
    I'm 6' and would never ride a XL, large is
    more than enough for me.
  • 11-30-2012
    holiday
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    Just curious, have you rode the Tallboy LTc? You say "seems" sounds like you may not have spent time on one to make a comparison to your stumpy, however I could be wrong, maybe you have.

    Just an FYI, you want to know the difference in BB heights, the stumpy 29er is 13.41 inches tall and the Tallboy LTc is 13.4 even, so I would say technically- the Tallboy LTc has a lower BB therefore a touch "lower center" as you would say, compared to the stumpy. As far as money going farther though, on the Tallboy LTc you get much more components and all for a better price, Spec is a bit more expensive to get the same equivalent.

    IDK what you mean by "suspension seems designed to keep it tall by keeping it's pedaling platform."

    yes, I've ridden the LTc, just an hour or so, but after 20 years putting tons of miles on mountain bikes, I can feel what I like and don't pretty quickly.

    tall isn't the measurement, the suspension setting is designed to sit near top of travel, as opposed to more in the travel, so it feels taller.

    both are great bikes, top 5 on my list, but I was leaning toward the spesh based on your info and both used. as so many have said, you can't go wrong, bikewize. you can go wrong buying a super high end carbon bike w/o a warrantee. you have 3 great shops in auburn. use the local bike shope. bubba is a good guy at emporium for sc, oliver is on it w/ the specialized in downtown, and auburn bike works is the hometown fav w/ yeti and giant.

    cheers,
    holiday
  • 11-30-2012
    holiday
    agreed
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by John Kuhl View Post
    I'm 6' and would never ride a XL, large is
    more than enough for me.

    agree w/ John.
    i'm 6ft (although maybe just under as I'm shrinking in my 40's)

    L is good in some bikes, M in many.

    at, say 5 11.5, I choose the M stumpy w/ an 80stem. i spent time on L w/ the 60 and it was far less agile.
    in tallboy ltc, i rode the L.

    cheers,
    holiday
  • 11-30-2012
    peter19ue
    Hey John:

    Dou you ride a large ltc. Before I purchase any I need to ride both a large and extra large ltc but the bike emporium only had a ltc in a Xlarge and it belonged to one of the guys who worked there.
  • 11-30-2012
    John Kuhl
    No I don't have a LTC, but most of my bikes are large. My
    Trek EX is a 18.5.

    Holiday, I know what you mean. I was over 6'1" when I
    was younger.
  • 12-01-2012
    TwoTone
    Keep in mind SC sizes tend to run smaller than others. For example TT is about 1/2 inches shorter than the same size Specialized