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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtg7aa View Post
    You'd have to run the saddle pretty low for that to be an issue. I haven't heard of any saddle buzz instances. 27.5x3.0 fits with the 55mm stroke, 130mm rear travel Pistola configuration.
    Should've mentioned I'll be running 29" wheels and a Large frame with Medium seat-tube (I'm told this could be done ...).

    The distance from the underside of my saddle (at the rear) to BB is 800 mm and I'm planning to run a non-offset 175 mm dropper, which would drop the contact point to 625 mm. I expect the saddle to be mounted in the middle of the rails - possibly a little rearward. Does this sound like everything will work?

  2. #202
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    Should be fine

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    Coil shocks for the Trail Pistol are coming, we have one for test riding/developing spring rate recommendations/base tune info now. I'm basically in love with this setup so far.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtg7aa View Post
    Coil shocks for the Trail Pistol are coming, we have one for test riding/developing spring rate recommendations/base tune info now. I'm basically in love with this setup so far.
    Would that be an 11-6?

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyboyjong View Post
    Would that be an 11-6?
    My guess is a Cane Creek DB Coil IL. Winner gets a Trail Pistol! That's how this works, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by R-M-R View Post
    My guess is a Cane Creek DB Coil IL. Winner gets a Trail Pistol! That's how this works, right?
    That's exactly how that works, and since I already know the answer, I win

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtg7aa View Post
    That's exactly how that works, and since I already know the answer, I win
    Sandbagger.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by R-M-R View Post
    Sandbagger.
    What he said

  9. #209
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    Perks of the job

  10. #210
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    Pics or it didnt happen.

  11. #211
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    Working on my build and was going to go super deluxe any initial thoughts on ride vs air sprung and price difference. Obviously an 11 6 puts it in a different price bracket.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDubz View Post
    Working on my build and was going to go super deluxe any initial thoughts on ride vs air sprung and price difference. Obviously an 11 6 puts it in a different price bracket.
    The new Cane Creek DB Air IL might be a good intermediate option between coil and air spring properties without the Push price of admission. If their chart is accurate, the new air can must have a huge negative spring and is very linear.

    Matt, would it be possible to post a linkage rate curve for the Pistol/Pistola? It would be nice to compare it to bikes with which we're familiar as a guide for shock set-up.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by R-M-R View Post

    Matt, would it be possible to post a linkage rate curve for the Pistol/Pistola? It would be nice to compare it to bikes with which we're familiar as a guide for shock set-up.
    +1!

  14. #214
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    Posting the actual leverage curve is outside what is comfortable for us, as we feel it is a competitive advantage.
    However, it makes for a top stroke with favorable small bump compliance and traction, with a supportive mid stroke and solid bottom out ramp up. There are no weird changes throughout the travel, and thus it is predictable and smooth.
    A common feedback is that the harder you push it, the better it feels.

  15. #215
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    How are the climbing characteristics on the bike with the coil compared to the air shock?

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtg7aa View Post
    Posting the actual leverage curve is outside what is comfortable for us, as we feel it is a competitive advantage.
    However, it makes for a top stroke with favorable small bump compliance and traction, with a supportive mid stroke and solid bottom out ramp up. There are no weird changes throughout the travel, and thus it is predictable and smooth.
    A common feedback is that the harder you push it, the better it feels.
    I read this as "We think we can sell more bikes by spraying voodoo catch phrases than by posting hard data for people that base their decisions on facts". Unfortunate,especially since it will eventually be published regardless of your wishes.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyT View Post
    I read this as "We think we can sell more bikes by spraying voodoo catch phrases than by posting hard data for people that base their decisions on facts". Unfortunate,especially since it will eventually be published regardless of your wishes.
    I apologize if that's how it came across, as that's certainly not our intent. GG is very engineering and facts focused, I can assure you. I also loathe the voodoo catch phrases that are commonly used with bikes and avoid them; the above description was as objective as possible for the ride characteristics designed into the suspension.

    A better method would be trying to figure out a way for you to demo one. We have BAMF's and some Outposts with demo bikes scattered about, let me know where you are and I can see about letting you ride one.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyT View Post
    I read this as "We think we can sell more bikes by spraying voodoo catch phrases than by posting hard data for people that base their decisions on facts". Unfortunate,especially since it will eventually be published regardless of your wishes.
    Easy now! Guerrilla Gravity's customer service is generally excellent, so I don't think there's any intention of ill will or disrespect for the customers. Matt has put a lot of work into this and undoubtedly - possibly justifiably - believes he's come up with a superior product. I can understand the reluctance to put this work out in the open, though I agree it's inevitable people will do a decent job of reverse-engineering it and it may be better to proactively manage this information, rather than letting it emerge unshepherded.

    I'll probably give in and buy a licensed version of Linkage, but, until then, we can look at Antonio Osuna's analysis of the 2015 Megatrail. Obviously, the Pistol is a Horst link design, but the instant centre is pretty close to the main pivot, the rocker hasn't moved much, and the general layout is similar, so it should be a decent analogy. More importantly, the curves are designed by the same person and I don't suppose he's radically rethought his opinions on kinematics in the intervening years. Or maybe he has - feel free to jump in, Matt!

    Antonio's Megatrail analysis shows a linkage progressiveness of about 20% that builds steadily - no spikes, nothing dramatic. Sensible, predictable, easy to tune, and will work with a coil or air spring. Pretty standard stuff, really, but that's not a bad thing.

    The last chart shows the bike modeled with a CCDB Air. Notice the rapid increase in force over the first ~10 mm of travel, which shows the effect of an undersized negative spring. That's not Guerrilla Gravity's fault: almost all negative springs have been horribly undersized until recently (and many still are ... looking at you, Fox EVOL), but there's currently - finally! - a trend toward larger negative springs. The new Deluxe has a larger negative spring volume than the Monarch; combined with CounterMeasure, this is a huge improvement for RockShox. And Cane Creek's new LinEair looks very promising, if their chart is accurate. Of course, nothing will be as smooth as a coil, but these improvements in air spring design address what I believe are the worst characteristics of air springs, reducing the advantages of coils.
    Last edited by R-M-R; 01-26-2017 at 09:45 PM.

  19. #219
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    So I'm confused I keep hearing how progressive the ramp up curve is on the bike but am reading people recommend running 3 tokens and 30% sag. It's how I had my demo set up and if felt awesome. But that makes me think it's the air can that's providing the progressive ramp up and the bikes curve is more neutral. If that's the case I've always thought the advantage of a coil is a neutral ramp and the bike linkage provides the ramp up. I'm probably clueless but my heads been chewing this one over the last few days.

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  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDubz View Post
    So I'm confused I keep hearing how progressive the ramp up curve is on the bike but am reading people recommend running 3 tokens and 30% sag. It's how I had my demo set up and if felt awesome. But that makes me think it's the air can that's providing the progressive ramp up and the bikes curve is more neutral. If that's the case I've always thought the advantage of a coil is a neutral ramp and the bike linkage provides the ramp up. I'm probably clueless but my heads been chewing this one over the last few days.
    You're not confused at all! In fact, you're mostly correct.

    A more progressive linkage is progressive with respect to the spring and the damper, whereas a less progressive linkage relies more on a progressive spring and less on the damper to resist bottoming. The main advantage to the former is better energy dissipation deep in the travel. Shocks can partially compensate for this with separate high- and low-speed rebound damping, though.

    Also keep in mind that "progressive" does not equal "superior". If "more progressive" was inherently better, all bikes would be more progressive. The larger your compressive forces, relative to your weight, the more you'll benefit from more progressive suspension. People who aren't hucking large or really smashing stuff will may find progressive bikes simply rob them of travel.

    Something that bothers me - and may be causing you some confusion - is that people equate more progressive air springs (i.e. more spacers/tokens) with "hardcore" riding, yet also equate coil shocks with the same. Anyone who needs an exceptionally progressive spring should also consider altering the damper; similarly, if a bike rides nicely with a progressive air spring, then the same bike with a coil spring will probably need more damping than was needed with the air spring.

    To address the specific case of Specialized bikes: Specialized linkages are generally less progressive than comparable bikes, so it's not surprising you preferred the shock with a few extra spacers. If you had an Intense Uzzi with same configuration, you'd never come close to bottoming out!

  21. #221
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    I have Linkage Design, but I did not find any good sideway pictures of Trail Pistol. Best would be picture from the left side where chainring is not hiding pivots, taken with telephoto lens to minimize distortion, with lens at the level of the bike centre.

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnea View Post
    I have Linkage Design, but I did not find any good sideway pictures of Trail Pistol. Best would be picture from the left side where chainring is not hiding pivots, taken with telephoto lens to minimize distortion, with lens at the level of the bike centre.
    This is the best I've found.

  23. #223
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    I'm on the market for new bike and so far Smuggler and Phantom are my top candidates, so I compared Trail Pistol with those two. I assumed that the bike on the picture has 50mm stroke shock, i.e. it has 120mm rear travel. I selected gear ratio appropriate for steeper climbing.

    It looks very good. Very similar to Smuggler. I like the looks of the Phantom most, especially the 2017 model, but it seems to be the least efficient of three. I hope to demo Smuggler and Phantom soon, but I appreciate if somebody who has tried more than one of those bikes could share their experiences.

    BTW, I uploaded the projects to Linkage Design web library.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-guerilla-gravity-trail-piston_anti-rise.png  

    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-guerilla-gravity-trail-piston_anti-squat.png  

    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-guerilla-gravity-trail-piston_pedal-kickback.png  

    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-guerilla-gravity-trail-piston_levratio.png  

    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-guerilla-gravity-trail-piston_anti-squat2.png  

    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-guerilla-gravity-trail-piston_levratio2.png  

    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-guerilla-gravity-trail-piston_anti-rise3.png  

    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-guerilla-gravity-trail-piston_anti-squat3.png  

    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-guerilla-gravity-trail-piston_levratio3.png  

    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-guerilla-gravity-trail-piston_pedal-kickback3.png  

    Last edited by arnea; 01-31-2017 at 03:11 PM.

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnea View Post
    I'm on the market for new bike and so far Smuggler and Phantom are my top candidates, so I compared Trail Pistol with those two. I assumed that the bike on the picture has 50mm stroke shock, i.e. it has 120mm rear travel. I selected gear ratio appropriate for steeper climbing.

    It looks very good. Very similar to Smuggler. I like the looks of the Phantom most, especially the 2017 model, but it seems to be the least efficient of three. I hope to demo Smuggler and Phantom soon, but I appreciate if somebody who has tried more than one of those bikes could share their experiences.

    BTW, I uploaded the projects to Linkage Design web library.
    Thanks for doing this!

    First, I think your model is incorrect: it looks like you've made the "seatstays" end at the link, rather than continue beyond the link. If so, the Pistol numbers will be a bit off (also, it's "Trail Pistol", not "Trail Piston", though the latter is a catchy name, too!).

    Regarding your statement of the Pistol being the least efficient: If we assume the ideal anti-squat for pedaling efficiency is perhaps 120-140% on smooth ground and 80-100% on very rough ground, then all three bikes are similar and very good. Importantly, though, we should look at the anti-squat at, or slightly beyond, the sag point, in which case the Phantom is becoming less firm.

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by R-M-R View Post
    First, I think your model is incorrect: it looks like you've made the "seatstays" end at the link, rather than continue beyond the link.
    Thank you for spotting this! Indeed, I made a mistake. I will update the graphs in my first post.

    Quote Originally Posted by R-M-R View Post
    If so, the Pistol numbers will be a bit off (also, it's "Trail Pistol", not "Trail Piston", though the latter is a catchy name, too!).
    Yeah, I make this mistake all the time

    Quote Originally Posted by R-M-R View Post
    Regarding your statement of the Pistol being the least efficient: If we assume the ideal anti-squat for pedaling efficiency is perhaps 120-140% on smooth ground and 80-100% on very rough ground, then all three bikes are similar and very good. Importantly, though, we should look at the anti-squat at, or slightly beyond, the sag point, in which case the Phantom is becoming less firm.
    No, I was saying that Phantom is least efficient. Pistol is best of three IMHO. I was always thinking that what is important is anti-squat at sag point. But recently MTBR user Jayem pointed out that the slope of the anti-squat curve is also important. When you are climbing rough ascent and the rear suspension is compressed because you roll over rock and you have anti-squat curve the falls fast (e.g. from 100% at 25% sag to 30% at 60% of compression) then you your pedalling will compress the suspension even further and will unload the front end. Flatter anti-squat curve is very beneficial. His makes sense to me. And Pistol has flattest curve of those three bikes.

  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnea View Post
    No, I was saying that Phantom is least efficient. Pistol is best of three IMHO. I was always thinking that what is important is anti-squat at sag point. But recently MTBR user Jayem pointed out that the slope of the anti-squat curve is also important. When you are climbing rough ascent and the rear suspension is compressed because you roll over rock and you have anti-squat curve the falls fast (e.g. from 100% at 25% sag to 30% at 60% of compression) then you your pedalling will compress the suspension even further and will unload the front end. Flatter anti-squat curve is very beneficial. His makes sense to me. And Pistol has flattest curve of those three bikes.
    The change in the anti-squat curve isn't important, only the value at a given point (i.e. the point being examined). The bike doesn't "know" there's a lower point deeper in the travel and try to seek that point. It's a little like metastability in that the current state is not affected by the presence of a different state in another region that cannot be reached at a given time. It also doesn't matter if the anti-squat curve falls from very high to medium; this is still firmer than starting at medium and staying flat.

    The area under the curve matters more than the shape. The true calculation for how well the linkage pedals (ignoring the properties of the shock, such as platform switches, etc.) is to combine the anti-squat curve, the probability density function of where the bike sits in its travel, and the average forces applied by the rider over the travel. We examine the anti-squat at the sag point because that's approximately the modal average of where the bike sits in its travel, though the median location when pedaling is slightly more compressed due to weight shift when climbing, so I favour looking at the anti-squat slightly beyond the sag point.

    Even if you were pedaling a bike with negative anti-squat that was decreasing as you applied the same or greater pedaling force, you will probably reach a point where the force from the shock's spring would overcome the squat forces and even this astoundingly horribly pedaling bike wouldn't compress indefinitely.

    As a slightly more realistic - but still extreme - example, if anti-squat was very high from zero to the maximum travel at which you would still be pedaling (ex. 50% stroke), then dropped wildly to negative anti-squat, the bike will still pedal very firmly because you never pedal in this region of low anti-squat. In a more realistic situation, you mostly pedal in the region of high anti-squat and rarely in the region of low anti-squat, so the anti-squat values barely matter in the region where you rarely pedal. For this reason, if your charts are assumed to be correct, the Smuggler would be the firmest pedaling bike and would reduce its pedal kick-back by reducing the anti-squat in the region were you aren't pedaling. Look at the Mondraker Dune for an extreme example of this: around 180% at top-out, ~110% at sag, and nearly zero anti-squat at bottom-out.

  27. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDubz View Post
    Working on my build and was going to go super deluxe any initial thoughts on ride vs air sprung and price difference. Obviously an 11 6 puts it in a different price bracket.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
    The Super Deluxe rides pretty great. I'm not sure what you were getting at with the comparison question? Can you elaborate?

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDubz View Post
    So I'm confused I keep hearing how progressive the ramp up curve is on the bike but am reading people recommend running 3 tokens and 30% sag. It's how I had my demo set up and if felt awesome. But that makes me think it's the air can that's providing the progressive ramp up and the bikes curve is more neutral. If that's the case I've always thought the advantage of a coil is a neutral ramp and the bike linkage provides the ramp up. I'm probably clueless but my heads been chewing this one over the last few days.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
    This was probably what you were getting at with the first question. The Trail Pistol frame certainly has some ramp up built in, and it was designed with the intent of running what we call modern air springs (eg Rockshox Debonair, large negative spring that makes for a more coil-like air spring) and coil springs.

    Air volume spacers: they mainly affect the bottom third of travel shortly before bottom out. 3 of them are recommended in the Deluxe and Super Deluxe when running higher sag to reduce hard bottom outs. It makes for softer bottom outs, which are easier to keep the bike under control when you're maching, vs smashing straight to the bottom of the travel and getting a big jolt.
    Coil shocks have a pretty similar device, it's the rubber bump stop at the spring collar. That's one of the things that Push does when creating an ElevenSix tune, is to tune the stiffness, length, and how progressive the bottom out bumper is. That same method is used on race cars and production cars to tune bottom out characteristics.

    So, yes, the Trail Pistol frame has built in progression. And, yes, it is optimized for modern air springs and coil springs. Choose based on your preference, and it'll work great.

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by R-M-R View Post
    Easy now! Guerrilla Gravity's customer service is generally excellent, so I don't think there's any intention of ill will or disrespect for the customers. Matt has put a lot of work into this and undoubtedly - possibly justifiably - believes he's come up with a superior product. I can understand the reluctance to put this work out in the open, though I agree it's inevitable people will do a decent job of reverse-engineering it and it may be better to proactively manage this information, rather than letting it emerge unshepherded.

    I'll probably give in and buy a licensed version of Linkage, but, until then, we can look at Antonio Osuna's analysis of the 2015 Megatrail. Obviously, the Pistol is a Horst link design, but the instant centre is pretty close to the main pivot, the rocker hasn't moved much, and the general layout is similar, so it should be a decent analogy. More importantly, the curves are designed by the same person and I don't suppose he's radically rethought his opinions on kinematics in the intervening years. Or maybe he has - feel free to jump in, Matt!

    Antonio's Megatrail analysis shows a linkage progressiveness of about 20% that builds steadily - no spikes, nothing dramatic. Sensible, predictable, easy to tune, and will work with a coil or air spring. Pretty standard stuff, really, but that's not a bad thing.

    The last chart shows the bike modeled with a CCDB Air. Notice the rapid increase in force over the first ~10 mm of travel, which shows the effect of an undersized negative spring. That's not Guerrilla Gravity's fault: almost all negative springs have been horribly undersized until recently (and many still are ... looking at you, Fox EVOL), but there's currently - finally! - a trend toward larger negative springs. The new Deluxe has a larger negative spring volume than the Monarch; combined with CounterMeasure, this is a huge improvement for RockShox. And Cane Creek's new LinEair looks very promising, if their chart is accurate. Of course, nothing will be as smooth as a coil, but these improvements in air spring design address what I believe are the worst characteristics of air springs, reducing the advantages of coils.
    You're pretty much right on the money.

    This, in particular: "More importantly, the curves are designed by the same person and I don't suppose he's radically rethought his opinions on kinematics in the intervening years."

  30. #230
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    Uhhhh.......yeah......It's just that we have been putting cover sheets on all our TPS reports.......

    I think you guys should ride one instead of dissecting it in a lab.

    GG + TP x ride time = shredtatistic, at least thats the equation I use and it seems to work for me.

  31. #231
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    No time on Smuggler, but I own a Phantom, and to me, for a trail bike, it's anything but inefficient*. As long as the shock is set up right, it will get up and go. The only time I use the CC Inline's Climb Switch is on pavement or fire road climbs. Honestly, my biggest 'issue' with the Phantom is water bottle placement. It really is an outstanding bike.

    I'm supposed to get some saddle time on a TP in the middle of February. It's one of the frames I'm looking at when the new bike funds are replenished. Long live aluminum frames with threaded BBs!


    *I add the qualifier because it's not an XC bike, and so I don't compare it to those rides.

  32. #232
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    As I thought, sizing is way off with the super long reach for stated "frame size" and guys at bike seem to think the same, only one who liked it was the 6'1" guy, they were on the Medium size

    Review: Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol | BIKE Magazine
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  33. #233
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    Surely this is well " outside of what is comfortable".

  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    As I thought, sizing is way off with the super long reach for stated "frame size" and guys at bike seem to think the same, only one who liked it was the 6'1" guy, they were on the Medium size

    Review: Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol | BIKE Magazine
    It's difficult to interpret the Bike reviews this year. They seem particularly fond of the shorter-travel, racier bikes this year; this may be influenced by the trails, which are mostly rolling and non-technical. Maybe the opinions would have been different if they were testing on the steep trails of British Columbia or the high-speed terrain of Colorado.

    Despite all the discussion of how long the Pistol feels and how some testers struggled at low speeds, they expressed no such concerns with the longer bikes in the long-travel category, which have similar geometry (ex. Trek Slash). My best guess is there's an imbalance - or an unfamiliar sensation, at least - between the Pistol's geometry, which works best at high speed, and the suspension, which may start to feel overwhelmed when the speed is high enough that the geometry becomes ideal. As I've mentioned before, I have a feeling the compression tune of the shock is too firm for most people's liking. Perhaps the 130 mm Pistola with a lighter compression damping tune would've been more favourably received, though it would've been a less unique bike.

    Of course the best solution is to try everything for ourselves, but that's not always practical!

  35. #235
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    Agreed ^^^. I do like Bike magazine and think they do a good job overall. In regards to the Bible, though, you really have to read and understand the environment in which they're testing as that significantly influences the outcome.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  36. #236
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    Bike Mag set the Trail Pistol to the stiffest possible configuration: 120mm rear travel, Crush Mode, and 25% sag. This is what is recommended for those that prefer a firm top stroke.
    For what they were looking for, it is recommended to try one or more of these things: 130mm rear travel, up to 30% sag, and/or Plush Mode.

  37. #237
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    [QUOTE=LyNx;13019544]As I thought, sizing is way off with the super long reach for stated "frame size" and guys at bike seem to think the same, only one who liked it was the 6'1" guy, they were on the Medium size

    Honestly, the GG bikes fit larger than most of the bikes by the big-3 but they're still smaller than some of the really extreme Euro bikes like the POLE Evolink series, Nicolai Geometron, and newer Mondrakers.

  38. #238
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    As I've said before when this thread first started, if it works for others, but at 6'2" with knuckle dragging arms and matching inseam, it doesn't for me. Right now my main rides have a 450mm Reach and I run a 70mm stem/785mm wide bar and don't want a cockpit any longer, so that would translate into a 465mm Reach putting me on a 55mm stem, which really isn't that long, could run a 35-40mm on a 485mm Reach.

    The whole "but we have a steep STA angle to compensate for that" is such utter crap, I ride with my saddle "X" distance behind the BB, STA does change that relation, that is how you are supposed to fit a bike, not move your saddle about to compensate for a too long or short cockpit. The only thing a steeper STA is going to do is make my dropper post selection all that harder as not many are offered with a setback head to get my saddle where I want it. Right now even with my Phantoms 74.5* STA I still have to use a setback post to get my desired saddle position and the saddle is on the middle of the rails with that 25mm setback, would have to slam it all the way back, past the recommended safe place on the rails to get the same with a 76* STA.

    Quote Originally Posted by GTscoob View Post
    Honestly, the GG bikes fit larger than most of the bikes by the big-3 but they're still smaller than some of the really extreme Euro bikes like the POLE Evolink series, Nicolai Geometron, and newer Mondrakers.
    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    As I thought, sizing is way off with the super long reach for stated "frame size" and guys at bike seem to think the same, only one who liked it was the 6'1" guy, they were on the Medium size
    I like to ride all types of terrain and speeds and I am definitely not one of those, Mo Speed types, I enjoy going slower and tackling the terrain rather than jumping/hoping over everything, hence, the reviewers comments would most likely mirror mine if I rode the recommended size for my height. I think that with their coverage with video of the test trails, you can very easily see the type of terrain they are riding the particular bikes on and so have a good idea of how to take the reviewers comments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Agreed ^^^. I do like Bike magazine and think they do a good job overall. In regards to the Bible, though, you really have to read and understand the environment in which they're testing as that significantly influences the outcome.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

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    Lynx, we'd be glad to build you a size medium Trail Pistol, which would be sizing down for somebody that's 6'2". It sounds like that would accomplish what you're looking for. If you want the saddle offset far behind the seat tube, 9point8 offers a large offset mount option for their posts.

  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    The whole "but we have a steep STA angle to compensate for that" is such utter crap, I ride with my saddle "X" distance behind the BB, STA does change that relation, that is how you are supposed to fit a bike, not move your saddle about to compensate for a too long or short cockpit.
    I agree with this for fitting road bikes - or any rider who will be riding on terrain without severe gradients - but mountain biking can involve steep enough gradients to justify compromises. I generally climb seated and stand to descend, so my time-averaged seated position has a rearward bias. A flat-ground seated position that is ideal will place the rider too far rearward most of the time. For this reason, I favour the approach of placing a rider's hips slightly ahead of the ideal position on flat ground, which will provide a far better climbing position and an optimal average seated position.

    Perhaps this is what you've already done with your own bike set-up. Most people (including me) need a seat-tube angle steeper than the industry average to achieve this; for us, the recent trend toward steeper seat-tube angles is a welcome relief from slamming our seats forward and sitting on the noses our saddles.

  41. #241
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    One of our BAMF's in Virginia made a video of shredding singletrack on his Trail Pistol in Virginia. That's the base $2995 build.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KryeOpx_5BY

  42. #242
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    Keep in mind that on a bike with an angled STA and dropper post your reach length is always changing. For me this is annoying.

  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by forrestvt View Post
    Keep in mind that on a bike with an angled STA and dropper post your reach length is always changing. For me this is annoying.
    I think reach would stay the same but effective top tube would change.

  44. #244
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    yes you are correct, I mixed up terminology

  45. #245
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    So I have yet to actually take a full day off this year, but I've taken a number of afternoons down in Sedona. So much fun. I also finally put together a framebag set for it:

    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-dsc08843.jpg

    Right now I'm running Crush mode with the Stage set to 130mm. One of these days I'll try it out in Plush mode, just to see. And I might up the Stage to 140. But I want to wait until I get well acquainted with the way it's set up right now so I can appreciate the differences. Right now everything is still new and shiny so I don't have a good basis to compare.

    This is my first bike with a slack head tube angle and it took some getting used to but I've made the adjustment now. It's a game changer. I did get a little overconfident and stuck my front wheel in a hole the other week, but I hopped over the bars, landed on my feet and reached back to catch the Pistol before it crashed. Flats for the win.
    Nick Smolinske - Owner/Operator at Rogue Panda Designs
    www.roguepanda.com

  46. #246
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    Wow, nice job on the frame bags, love the rising sun material Not sure I'd want that rear bag though, on those steep, techy descents would make getting behind the saddle difficult to impossible, depending on how steep or at least that's my thoughts looking at it. Any comments on how it is in that situation with the saddle bag?

    Quote Originally Posted by NickSmolinske View Post
    So I have yet to actually take a full day off this year, but I've taken a number of afternoons down in Sedona. So much fun. I also finally put together a framebag set for it:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  47. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Wow, nice job on the frame bags, love the rising sun material Not sure I'd want that rear bag though, on those steep, techy descents would make getting behind the saddle difficult to impossible, depending on how steep or at least that's my thoughts looking at it. Any comments on how it is in that situation with the saddle bag?
    Well, the good thing is that it's on a 150mm Fall Line dropper, with 100mm of usable travel. So that helps.

    The saddle bag is an interesting fit on the Trail Pistol/Fall Line. I might end up making myself a custom version at some point. But I probably won't find the time to do that, since it doesn't get in my way when I drop the post as it is.

    The reason it sticks up so much is the combination of the steeper seat tube angle of the bike and the thicker seat rail clamp of the Fall Line. I think the clamp is the bigger culprit, since the seat tube angle is only a few degrees steeper than most bikes.

    That said, it does rely on compression to the seat for stability, so it will stick up a bit past the seat no matter what post you use.
    Nick Smolinske - Owner/Operator at Rogue Panda Designs
    www.roguepanda.com

  48. #248
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    Nick, good to meet you in Sedona. The riding down there is so good; anybody that's considering going there to ride, do it.

  49. #249
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    Reporting back in

    Well I have ridden the TP for over 900kms of single track now. This included a trip to Tasmania with a few friends. Rode Blue Derby and Blue Tier. The EWS is coming to Blue Derby so this will really put the place on the map. It is the sort of place you can take the TP and ride everything.

    They have some great trails down there, world class standard. See the recent footage from there: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/wyn-ma...sie-video.html

    I rode most of what is shown here (except for the newest one just finished), the chunky rock trail we all smashed through.

    Can I say, the bike feels firm, planted. Balanced. It has a solid feel to it, even when going bigger than you should. I have done a lot of high speed stuff, a lot of rough and steeps and chasing a mate on a Nomad and I admit I have cased my fair share of jumps mainly because I go too fast for how good I am not or was I trying to push my mate into a mistake... and a laugh. Solid bike, no short comings, creaks or cracks. Just change the brake pads and charge on in again. It is fast after all:

    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-gg-tp-fast.jpg


    In Tassie we did trail riding and some shuttle runs, a few DH or black runs and general mayhem. Pedaled out over 160km and climbed 3500m.

    The Trail Pistol did a great job. I used the shock in the open position for all of the riding.

    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-gg-tas.jpg

    Ripping the downs, berms and occasionally A line jumps was a blast. Yes a couple of times I did run out of suspension on some of the DH orientated stuff, especially when the speed built up. More speed + more bumps always = more travel. It's the nature of the bike, it does goad you into getting going faster, so occasionally you'll write some big cheques. Other times I was the one that created the hairy moments, by luck and a little bit of the bikes good nature, we survived.

    For those questions about climbing and for those vacillating about the seat angle. The Seat Angle is a serious +plus+. Be warned, if you ride a bike with this seat angle more than 10 times, the next time you ride an old school bike (73deg SA) you will feel like you are riding the bike from the back seat - and that's just on the flat ground. You can detect how you are not weighting the front wheel. Everyone has a preference, I like grip and I am sold on steeper.

    An example I remember clearly is that we had a wet day where the trails got very muddy and slippery. We climbed up some switch backs that went through a clay area. This was greasy. Some say the bike is long, however the GG cockpit ergonomics is spot on. I was very happy with getting the bike around and the feel I had for traction was great. A couple of tricky corners, blind, tight and greasy and hey presto here is a late view of a greasy root or rock or clay ledge. Just enough time to lift the front wheel over and I was anticipating the rear to spin out, but no, your body is in such a great position so it's just grip. Surprisingly good grip. The SA can really work in your favour.

    Over the months the bike has grown some more on me. The first few months was a great honeymoon phase. There was a month in the middle when I was neutral on it but recently I have been hauling a little more and staying with some bigger bikes and I have found another ounce of pace. That includes the tamer trail riding to, love working the woodsy trails. This bike is just so versatile.

    I can ride up the local mountain, see the boys shuttling a little DH trail nearby and because of GG's progressive geo, no qualms dropping in and sharing on the fun. They load up the ute and I ride on to other trials - hit the flow trails on the way home. Play with features and roll out those pacy and racy 29er miles, work some climbs, some tech , drop down some chutes and huck off some rocks. The TP can ride everything. (then you go to work still smiling)

    It is a top quality bike, done some miles and feels very stiff and new still. This is a solid well made bike. Thanks GG

  50. #250
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    Got to meet Will at the demo tour and try out a Megatril, along with the new coil for the TP. Absolutely rippped, and as such I placed a coil order for my TP.

    Matt- how many weight options are you guys going to have for the spring? I'm currently at my winter beer weight of 185. With water close to 190. I'll be back to fighting weight of 180 soon. Just want to make sure I'm not on the very uppper end of the weight range for the coil.

  51. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluidworks View Post
    Got to meet Will at the demo tour and try out a Megatril, along with the new coil for the TP. Absolutely rippped, and as such I placed a coil order for my TP.

    Matt- how many weight options are you guys going to have for the spring? I'm currently at my winter beer weight of 185. With water close to 190. I'll be back to fighting weight of 180 soon. Just want to make sure I'm not on the very uppper end of the weight range for the coil.
    That's no problem at all with regards to weight. All of our current bikes run a low leverage ratio to optimize for modern air springs (eg Debonair) and coil springs.

    You'll want a 450lb/in spring.

    Edit: a 450 is what you rode, fyi.

  52. #252
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    Thanks Matt. Also, I haven't pulled off the regular deluxe yet to take a look, will I need to vise press out the hardware and then vise press in the hardware into the new shock? I don't trust my ghetto vise setup.

  53. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluidworks View Post
    Thanks Matt. Also, I haven't pulled off the regular deluxe yet to take a look, will I need to vise press out the hardware and then vise press in the hardware into the new shock? I don't trust my ghetto vise setup.
    No vise needed, the coil shock will include hardware. Just unbolt the Deluxe and install the coil shock.

  54. #254
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    I have a few questions for those of you who have gone the plus route.....I went with the 29' option out of the gate, love the bike really enjoying getting it set up. I splurged on a nice set of carbon hoops/hubs from Nox, great upgrade. I thought I'd dip my little toe in the plus pool and see how it felt.....built up some chinese carbon and BHS hubs for a 27.5 plus set up. Rode that set up for a few months and love the traction, the stability and fun factor. I have WTB Bridger/Ranger combo and they seem okay so far.

    -Would some lighter 2.8 or even 2.6 rubber get a goldilocks set up? Not too much rolling resistance? Enough contact patch?
    Can I fit a 2.6 on my 29" wheels?

    Any input appreciated. I didn't expect to like the plus so much, I did a couple runs and switched and the difference for me at least was big.

  55. #255
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    Boing boing. Got a nice care package from Cane Creek yesterday. 210x50 DBAirCS shocks are available now but looks like they arent listed on their website yet. I have an XV air can and volume spacers in hand but am going to give this setup a few rides to see if I want the shock to be more or less linear than the standard can.

    Also finally installed the custom decals to my 36 to match the frame decals and ano bling on the bike.

    The man in the brown truck should be dropping my frame off on Monday, it's like Christmas in April.

  56. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTscoob View Post
    Boing boing. Got a nice care package from Cane Creek yesterday. 210x50 DBAirCS shocks are available now but looks like they arent listed on their website yet. I have an XV air can and volume spacers in hand but am going to give this setup a few rides to see if I want the shock to be more or less linear than the standard can.

    Also finally installed the custom decals to my 36 to match the frame decals and ano bling on the bike.

    The man in the brown truck should be dropping my frame off on Monday, it's like Christmas in April.
    Instead of regular vs. XV air cans, push Cane Creek to provide a LinEair spring. It's not an option for their external reservoir shocks yet, but I suspect it will be soon.

  57. #257
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    Yeah, if you can get the LinEair air can, that is recommendable over the regular or XV can.

  58. #258
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    Love. This. Bike.

    Just 5 rides so far (but some good distance--137 miles) and this bike absoutely rocks. While this bike kills it at speed, what I've been most impressed by its manners at slower speeds, switchbacks, and tighter spots. This might also be the best climbing bike I've owned. Will be putting together a more detailed review once I get some time on the TP in my home trails up in the PNW.

    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-img_1202.jpg

  59. #259
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    Had my second ride today on the super deluxe coil with 130mm travel. I can't believe what an upgrade it is over the regular air deluxe. Traction is unmatched and the bump compliance is incredible. The weight increase is a very small price to pay.

    Matt- what's your setup for the coil? I tried 1 1/2 turns of preload, two clicks of LSC from open (negative sign) and 5 clicks of rebound from full fast.

  60. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluidworks View Post
    Had my second ride today on the super deluxe coil with 130mm travel. I can't believe what an upgrade it is over the regular air deluxe. Traction is unmatched and the bump compliance is incredible. The weight increase is a very small price to pay.

    Matt- what's your setup for the coil? I tried 1 1/2 turns of preload, two clicks of LSC from open (negative sign) and 5 clicks of rebound from full fast.
    We're all big fans of the Super Deluxe Coil as well.

    My riding weight is about 185lbs, and I'm on the 450 lb/in spring. I'll try the 500 sometime soon as I tend to prefer a little less sag than average, but the 450 is the recommended baseline for around 180lbs. I generally prefer a little stiffer on the spring, and a little faster/softer on the damper than average.

    Rebound: I don't recall off hand the amount of clicks on the rebound, but it's always set by squashing the rear suspension and adjusting rebound speed until the suspension returns quickly with minimal overshoot. Then, I'll generally leave it there unless I'm riding something similar to a bike park flow trail with a lot of pressing hard into berms, and then I'll slow the rebound down another click or two. Long story short, my baseline is probably around 4 clicks in from full fast on the medium tune damper.

    Compression: 1-6 clicks in, depending on what I'm riding. 2 is the most common base setting.

    Pre-load: The shock says 2-5 turns is the acceptable range. Typically, I've always run the minimum pre-load to prevent the spring from rattling, but this shock I've actually started to use pre-load to tune the feel. It might be due to their Counter Measure coil negative spring. Either way, I run 2 turns as a base, and if I'm riding somewhere that's a bit more smooth and pedaly, I'll crank it up to 5 turns of pre-load for a stiffer top stroke. I've found that to be pretty useful.

  61. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluidworks View Post
    Had my second ride today on the super deluxe coil with 130mm travel. I can't believe what an upgrade it is over the regular air deluxe. Traction is unmatched and the bump compliance is incredible. The weight increase is a very small price to pay.

    Matt- what's your setup for the coil? I tried 1 1/2 turns of preload, two clicks of LSC from open (negative sign) and 5 clicks of rebound from full fast.
    Comments like this have me so stoked to get mine. Nice to hear people are happy with the the coil. I've always liked the way coils feel but with little real world feedback on the super deluxe coils nice to hear people are stoked on them. M

    My patience to get my bike on the other hand probably needs some work.

  62. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtg7aa View Post
    We're all big fans of the Super Deluxe Coil as well.

    My riding weight is about 185lbs, and I'm on the 450 lb/in spring. I'll try the 500 sometime soon as I tend to prefer a little less sag than average, but the 450 is the recommended baseline for around 180lbs. I generally prefer a little stiffer on the spring, and a little faster/softer on the damper than average.

    Rebound: I don't recall off hand the amount of clicks on the rebound, but it's always set by squashing the rear suspension and adjusting rebound speed until the suspension returns quickly with minimal overshoot. Then, I'll generally leave it there unless I'm riding something similar to a bike park flow trail with a lot of pressing hard into berms, and then I'll slow the rebound down another click or two. Long story short, my baseline is probably around 4 clicks in from full fast on the medium tune damper.

    Compression: 1-6 clicks in, depending on what I'm riding. 2 is the most common base setting.

    Pre-load: The shock says 2-5 turns is the acceptable range. Typically, I've always run the minimum pre-load to prevent the spring from rattling, but this shock I've actually started to use pre-load to tune the feel. It might be due to their Counter Measure coil negative spring. Either way, I run 2 turns as a base, and if I'm riding somewhere that's a bit more smooth and pedaly, I'll crank it up to 5 turns of pre-load for a stiffer top stroke. I've found that to be pretty useful.
    Thanks Matt.

    We're the same weight, I got the 500lb spring and I'm very satisfied with response. I like to get rowdy with some of the local rocky lines in SoCal so i'd rather have more than less. Sounds like the settings are fairly similar, though I'll have to try some more preload and see how that goes.

  63. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDubz View Post
    Comments like this have me so stoked to get mine. Nice to hear people are happy with the the coil. I've always liked the way coils feel but with little real world feedback on the super deluxe coils nice to hear people are stoked on them. M

    My patience to get my bike on the other hand probably needs some work.
    Right on. The pistol was an awesome bike before, but now as the coil pistola it's truly incredible.

  64. #264
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    So I'm kinda confused here. Earlier in the thread people were talking about how awesome this bike rides when you add another air token to the Super Deluxe shocks to make them even more progressive. Now everyone is saying that coil shocks ride better which seems contradictory given the more linear response of the coil spring.

    Either way, I heard back from Cane Creek and the LinEAir spring is coming out for the DBAirs eventually and will be a reverse compatible optional upgrade when you send your shock in for service.

    Got my first ride in on my bike last night, my local shop rushed the build so I could get a night ride in before a week of rain. Really digging how capable this bike is even with a really poorly tuned suspension on the first ride out. Looking forward to spending some time dialing the ride in and getting more miles on the bike. I already was able to make it over some technical climbs that always gave me trouble on other bikes and it was damn rowdy coming down similarly chunky terrain.

  65. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTscoob View Post
    So I'm kinda confused here. Earlier in the thread people were talking about how awesome this bike rides when you add another air token to the Super Deluxe shocks to make them even more progressive. Now everyone is saying that coil shocks ride better which seems contradictory given the more linear response of the coil spring.

    Either way, I heard back from Cane Creek and the LinEAir spring is coming out for the DBAirs eventually and will be a reverse compatible optional upgrade when you send your shock in for service.

    Got my first ride in on my bike last night, my local shop rushed the build so I could get a night ride in before a week of rain. Really digging how capable this bike is even with a really poorly tuned suspension on the first ride out. Looking forward to spending some time dialing the ride in and getting more miles on the bike. I already was able to make it over some technical climbs that always gave me trouble on other bikes and it was damn rowdy coming down similarly chunky terrain.
    Adding air volume spacers to make the air shocks more progressive is combined with lowering the air pressure. Combining those is what I was talking about earlier, as it makes the top stroke feel softer, yet still encourages charging hard without pounding the bottom out bumper constantly. Just adding volume spacers without going down in air pressure would make it stiffer.

  66. #266
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    New bike day for me yesterday:
    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-20170408_114836.jpg

  67. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtg7aa View Post
    New bike day for me yesterday:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    THAT looks awesome!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  68. #268
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    Pretty cool custom Trail Pistol as the April 15th Bike of the Day on Vital:

    Custom Guerilla Gravity Trail Pistol - TallBobbyB's Bike Check - Vital MTB

  69. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatNateDude View Post
    Pretty cool custom Trail Pistol as the April 15th Bike of the Day on Vital:

    Custom Guerilla Gravity Trail Pistol - TallBobbyB's Bike Check - Vital MTB
    That's mine. I've had five rides on it, starting to finally get the suspension sorted out between the DBAir and 36 RC2.

    Already setting some uphill PRs and matching downhill times on my local trails, only going to get faster on those DH times. This bike really loves to be ridden hard and fast. I'm impressed at how nimble it is for being such a long/slack bike, so far it's equally home on our swoopy XC trails, downhill runs, and neighborhood low-speed tight&twisty tech trails.

  70. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTscoob View Post
    That's mine.
    Nice! Mine is (fingers crossed) shipping today. There have been a couple of delays in getting mine out but I'm hopeful that they'll get it to me in time for a ride trip to Utah that I'm heading out for on Thursday.

  71. #271
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    Definitely a "budget" build

    So, curious, you running a proto Ikon you had hanging around or you running it flipped or is that a new proto? Don't see the usual proto hot patch that's on most of the protos.

    Quote Originally Posted by GTscoob View Post
    That's mine. I've had five rides on it, starting to finally get the suspension sorted out between the DBAir and 36 RC2.

    Already setting some uphill PRs and matching downhill times on my local trails, only going to get faster on those DH times. This bike really loves to be ridden hard and fast. I'm impressed at how nimble it is for being such a long/slack bike, so far it's equally home on our swoopy XC trails, downhill runs, and neighborhood low-speed tight&twisty tech trails.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  72. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    So, curious, you running a proto Ikon you had hanging around or you running it flipped or is that a new proto?
    You've got a good eye and I've got sealed lips on the matter for the time being.

  73. #273
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    One cool thing about Maxxis tyres, installing is idiot proof, tyre name/casing description only goes on the drive side, if you can't read the tyre name looking at the drive train side, you've installed it backwards It looks very interesting from what I can garner

    Quote Originally Posted by GTscoob View Post
    You've got a good eye and I've got sealed lips on the matter for the time being.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  74. #274
    meatier showers
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just J View Post
    THAT looks awesome!!
    It does indeed look awesome! Safe to assume it's been dubbed "Barney"?
    =s
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    We get old because we quit riding.

  75. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    It does indeed look awesome! Safe to assume it's been dubbed "Barney"?
    =s
    Ha ha that's exactly what I'd call it if it were mine!


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  76. #276
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    So, I dropped off Barney at Push on Monday....

  77. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtg7aa View Post
    So, I dropped off Barney at Push on Monday....
    'R you Pushin' both ends or just the rear?
    PAYASO 36er.....Live the Circus

    MR. 36er TROLL

    I'm sorry what part of "BIGLY" didn't you understand?

  78. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtg7aa View Post
    New bike day for me yesterday:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    New bike day shouldn't count if you work for the bike company. Jealous of that color though, wish it was available when I got mine.

    What is Craig going to do to the Deluxe coil?

  79. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluidworks View Post
    New bike day shouldn't count if you work for the bike company. Jealous of that color though, wish it was available when I got mine.

    What is Craig going to do to the Deluxe coil?
    It certainly does count!

    I'm not sure what you meant about Craig doing something to the shock, but Push is working on a tune for the ElevenSix on the Pistol.

  80. #280
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    mtg7aa
    Working on my order. What do you think about the DT Swiss XM481 Custom vs. the I9s? Do you think 29x2.6 nobby nics will actually fit? Does the MRP fork have as much tire clearance as the rockshox? What's the most bulletproof, maintenance free or easiest to bleed brake?

    Thanks.

  81. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukerussell View Post
    mtg7aa
    Working on my order. What do you think about the DT Swiss XM481 Custom vs. the I9s? Do you think 29x2.6 nobby nics will actually fit? Does the MRP fork have as much tire clearance as the rockshox? What's the most bulletproof, maintenance free or easiest to bleed brake?

    Thanks.
    Seems like an email, to me.

  82. #282
    SyT
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTscoob View Post
    So I'm kinda confused here. Earlier in the thread people were talking about how awesome this bike rides when you add another air token to the Super Deluxe shocks to make them even more progressive. Now everyone is saying that coil shocks ride better which seems contradictory given the more linear response of the coil spring.
    You're not the confused one. It appears as you may be thinking for yourself. That's​ unacceptable if you intend on fitting in around here. Subscribe to the voodoo or get the eff out.

  83. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by kragu View Post
    Seems like an email, to me.
    I'm open to forum opinion. Last time I built a bike was 4 years ago and everything is different. And I haven't been keeping up.

  84. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukerussell View Post
    mtg7aa
    Working on my order. What do you think about the DT Swiss XM481 Custom vs. the I9s? Do you think 29x2.6 nobby nics will actually fit? Does the MRP fork have as much tire clearance as the rockshox? What's the most bulletproof, maintenance free or easiest to bleed brake?

    Thanks.
    The DT XM481 wheels are solid, not heavy, and not expensive for what you're getting. The upgrade to the I9 Enduro S shaves a little weight, the rims are a little more burly (similar in strength to the stronger DT EX511 rims), and top shelf hubs with high engagement. I haven't put the 2.6 Nobby Nics in a Trail Pistol, but there's a little extra room with a 29x2.5WT Maxxis Shorty, which measures just over 2.5", and the side knobs are really tall. The MRP Ribbon has about the same tire clearance as the Rockshox.
    Brakes: Easiest to bleed, imo is Shimano. Most bulletproof, maintenance free are the Sram Guides, in my experience.

  85. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtg7aa View Post
    It certainly does count!

    I'm not sure what you meant about Craig doing something to the shock, but Push is working on a tune for the ElevenSix on the Pistol.
    I had mild dyslexia when I read your post, I saw Push and thought Craig over at Avalanche suspension. I wanted to see what they were going to do at Push for the stock Ribbon and deluxe coil.

  86. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyT View Post
    You're not the confused one. It appears as you may be thinking for yourself. That's​ unacceptable if you intend on fitting in around here. Subscribe to the voodoo or get the eff out.
    I may have missed a sarcasm tag here. I posted a positive suspension review of my own volition. I'm not an employee nor do I get a hookup. Just my opinions.

  87. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtg7aa View Post
    The DT XM481 wheels are solid, not heavy, and not expensive for what you're getting. The upgrade to the I9 Enduro S shaves a little weight, the rims are a little more burly (similar in strength to the stronger DT EX511 rims), and top shelf hubs with high engagement. I haven't put the 2.6 Nobby Nics in a Trail Pistol, but there's a little extra room with a 29x2.5WT Maxxis Shorty, which measures just over 2.5", and the side knobs are really tall. The MRP Ribbon has about the same tire clearance as the Rockshox.
    Brakes: Easiest to bleed, imo is Shimano. Most bulletproof, maintenance free are the Sram Guides, in my experience.
    Easiest to bleed in my experience are Hope, and by far the most rich in modulation.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  88. #288
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    The ELEVENSIX from Push is now available for the Trail Pistol. It feels like brake bumps and other chatter melt with this setup.

    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-14940919238321%5B1%5D.jpg

  89. #289
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    Will the ELEVENSIX from Push fit a 2016 TP?

  90. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtg7aa View Post
    The ELEVENSIX from Push is now available for the Trail Pistol. It feels like brake bumps and other chatter melt with this setup.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    How does the 11-6 compare with the RS Super Deluxe Coil ( besides costing twice as much :-) )

  91. #291
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    Quick wheel/tire question for the TP owners out there......My TP is a 140/120mm, I originally had NOBL 33's with 2.4 DHF, 2.3 HR.....I got a little plus curious and built a set of chinese carbon 27.5's with a 35mm ID rim and 3.0 WTB's. The bike was a blast to ride, monster trucker any line. I did feel it was a little lacking in the pop department and a bit sluggish. But fun. I recently put some 2.8 rekons on there and it is sooo much more fun and more like a mountain bike IMHO. So my dilemma and question is thus.....My29er wheel set is much lighter and has nicer NOBL branded Onyx hubs and the 27.5 is chinese carbon ( Il like them very much btw ) with BHS hubs. Not bad but not great. Will the 2.6 Rekon coming out this summer be the Grail tire I want? Anyone have any time on 2.6's on their TP? My plan is to wait for the 2.6 release and then whichever set up I like better sell the other set.....Thoughts?

  92. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by azfishman View Post
    ... the Grail tire I want? .....Thoughts?
    I'm pretty much in the same boat. Got both kinda wheels/tires. Wanna try 29x2.6 on my TP, haven't had a chance to yet.
    =s
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    We get old because we quit riding.

  93. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaynec View Post
    Will the ELEVENSIX from Push fit a 2016 TP?
    Yes.

  94. #294
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    We got a set of Maxxis 29x2.6 tires to verify fit recently. G2G. I'm looking forward to trying them myself.

  95. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtg7aa View Post
    Yes.
    I scratched a different itch,I used the money to order a Pedalhead a couple of days ago.

  96. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaynec View Post
    I scratched a different itch,I used the money to order a Pedalhead a couple of days ago.
    Badass!

  97. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtg7aa View Post
    We got a set of Maxxis 29x2.6 tires to verify fit recently. G2G. I'm looking forward to trying them myself.
    Me, too!
    =s
    disciplesofdirt.org

    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  98. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdc View Post
    How does the 11-6 compare with the RS Super Deluxe Coil ( besides costing twice as much :-) )
    I missed your question before...

    Rockshox did an excellent job with the Super Deluxe Coil; most of us run it on our own bikes at GG. Customer stoke has been quite high as well, as you get extra smooth small bump compliance at the cost of carrying around an extra pound.
    The ELEVENSIX is the best shock we've ever ridden, and the cost reflects that. If you want that last bit of performance, the Push shock is it. You get extra fine tuning abilities, the damper valving is tuned for YOU, and it's pretty unbelievable on high frequency chatter (eg brake bumps).

  99. #299
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    Any XL demos on the east coast.

  100. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by sikocycles View Post
    Any XL demos on the east coast.
    Looking into it...

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