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  1. #1
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    Going 29, Possibly Lynskey FS

    Any/all advice would be sincerely appreciated. My 2001 GT i-drive has served me well and it's come time to move on. This will be my first new bike purchase in 12 years!

    I'm good going 29. I've test rode different versions of Cannondale, Specialized and few others and I'm just not very satisfied with what I see. For the money, I'm not excited.

    So I started looking at other manufacturers and Lynskey came up. I've spoke with them (they have been very helpful on the phone!) and I've gone over everything on their website, looking at the Pro 29 Full Suspension. They've really been great on the phone. I really like that the bike is made here in the US (obviously not the components) but there isn't a local dealer where I can do a test drive, which is really important with this kind of money! They have even offered to ship me a brand new bike to test drive that I can ship back!

    Given I can solve the test drive issue (I might be in the their area so perhaps I can do a test drive at their place)... any thoughts on Lynskey or advice?

    I also would want a custom setup, like going no front derailleur (SRAM XX1 or there a Shimano equivalent?) and Mavic rims. Any thoughts on this or advice?

    This is major bucks! The stock bike alone is over $5K and with the custom components even more. But given I kept the GT for 11-12 years and ride about 1,000 to 1,500 miles per year, that's not too bad of an investment. And I have room on the credit card!

    So please let me know thoughts on this setup. I'm not interested in spending on a Chinese frame (i.e. Cannondale, GT, Specialized, etc...), nothing against Chinese, just want to keep as much of the business in my country and sorry in advance if that offends anyone.

    The last issue I've got to resolve is where to get the bike serviced. My current bike shop was "taken over" by Specialized and he's a great guy but he is under so much pressure to sell Specialized that he doesn't care about my GT and so forth... the new economy I guess. Perhaps I've got to find a new shop that will take care of me even if I didn't buy the bike from them.

    Thanks for listening (reading) and thanks in advance for your thoughts or guidance.

  2. #2
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    I think many folks will tell you that Ti and full suspension is kind of an odd choice. One of the advantages of Ti is its desirable ride quality. Once you have a suspension frame, though, you negate much of that. If you want made in the USA, I'd look at some of the alloy frames from Lenz, Intense, and Turner, to name a couple of options.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    I think many folks will tell you that Ti and full suspension is kind of an odd choice. One of the advantages of Ti is its desirable ride quality. Once you have a suspension frame, though, you negate much of that. If you want made in the USA, I'd look at some of the alloy frames from Lenz, Intense, and Turner, to name a couple of options.
    Thank you for your reply. I have heard this said before however when I ask for specifics on TI frames and FS I don't get a solid answer that I understand. Is it that TI is more flexible than carbon or aluminum? Are you saying there is something "wrong" with the Lynskey FS TI frame or there is a reason I should stay away from it? Again, specifics are really appreciated.

    I will also look at the other brands you suggested.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Jecxz View Post
    Thank you for your reply. I have heard this said before however when I ask for specifics on TI frames and FS I don't get a solid answer that I understand. Is it that TI is more flexible than carbon or aluminum? Are you saying there is something "wrong" with the Lynskey FS TI frame or there is a reason I should stay away from it? Again, specifics are really appreciated.

    I will also look at the other brands you suggested.
    I personally wouldn't buy a Ti full suspension. You pay a premium for Ti as a material, and its beneficial characteristics are mostly wasted in a FS frame. In my opinion, carbon is the best material for a full suspension frame, but there are no US made options as far as I know. There are still quite a few companies making high end alloy full suspension bikes, though, like the ones I listed above. Turner and Intense utilize two of the more recent advances in suspension technology (DW-Link and VPP, respectively), although opinions vary on rear suspension configurations. I'd be willing to bet you haven't seen a Ti full suspension in the wild, or if you have, very few, and I think there are good reasons for that.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    ...and I think there are good reasons for that.
    OK, but you are not telling me what those reasons are.

    I'd like to get back to my original post, looking for thoughts on what I wrote there.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Jecxz View Post
    OK, but you are not telling me what those reasons are.

    I'd like to get back to my original post, looking for thoughts on what I wrote there.
    Titanium frames are generally considered "more compliant" than aluminum. This is great in a hard tail, if done right, but basically pointless in a full suspension, as you have the suspension itself to absorb impacts. So any "compliance" in the frame just become undesirable flex.

    But the other point that you are failing to grasp is that Ti is more expensive than alloy as a material, so even assuming the Lynskey FS is comparable to other designs out there, and I wouldn't know because I've never seen one, ridden one, known anyone who's ridden one, or even seen a review of one, it doesn't make a lot of sense to pay the premium for the titanium material, when aluminum is as good or better in the application of a FS bike.

    I guess put succinctly, Lynskey is not known for their full suspension designs. Their prices have come down a lot recently, but I'd still rather have a Turner Sultan or Lenz Mammoth.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    Ti is more expensive than alloy as a material, so even assuming the Lynskey FS is comparable to other designs out there, and I wouldn't know because I've never seen one, ridden one, known anyone who's ridden one, or even seen a review of one, it doesn't make a lot of sense to pay the premium for the titanium material, when aluminum is as good or better in the application of a FS bike.
    This makes sense. I better understand your statement that TI is more flexible than aluminum or carbon and thus a FS is not necessary.

    Just started looking at the other brands you mentioned. Thanks.

  8. #8
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    What didn't you like about the new bikes you test - rode ?
    I find it hard to believe that the new bikes didn't blow your socks off, coming from a 12 YO bike.

  9. #9
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    Ive never been into a bike shop that would turn away shop work due to the brand of bike. If I did I would not revisit that shop.

    Good luck on your purchase 5K is a lot of coin just to say "its made in the USA"

  10. #10
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    Going 29, Possibly Lynskey FS

    Another great made in the USA choice to look into would be Ventana El Rey or El Captain.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfdog93 View Post
    What didn't you like about the new bikes you test - rode ?
    I find it hard to believe that the new bikes didn't blow your socks off, coming from a 12 YO bike.
    Excellent question. I looked the longest at Specialized, the Epic, and I did not feel the value was there for $5k for a carbon frame or $3k for aluminum for bikes that are made on an assembly line in Taiwan, again, I don't mean to offend anyone. I believe if you're mass produce bikes you should pass along the savings to the consumer.

    I looked at a few Cannondale models, I don't recall their names, but I was not impressed with the carbon frames and the cost value. I think this has been the biggest issue for me, I want to be blown away if I'm going to be spending so much money.

    I won't go to GT because they've been bankrupt two times in 10 years and parts availability is a concern (i.e. my I-drive now).

    At least I decided that I won't do carbon. Having been to various bike shops, there are all sorts of promises being made about carbon frame replacement for fracture. Anyway, I would prefer an aluminum frame, which is what I have now.

    When I spend $5k+ on a bike, the value happens to be important to me.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunner66 View Post
    Good luck on your purchase 5K is a lot of coin just to say "its made in the USA"
    Specialized Epic Carbon is $5k and its made on an assembly line in Taiwan. Your statement doesn't make sense. Same for Cannondale models.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    Another great made in the USA choice to look into would be Ventana El Rey or El Captain.
    Thanks! Still looking at the other brands suggested. I will look at these too.

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    Surprised no one has discussed what I wrote about no front derailleur, the SRAM XX1 complete set up is over $1,000 alone!

  15. #15
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    Here's a review of the Lynskey 29 FS addressing some of the comments on TI and FS:

    First impression: Lynskey Pro29 FS-120 | Dirt Rag Magazine

    Not totally sold on them, looking at other brands recommended.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Jecxz View Post
    Here's a review of the Lynskey 29 FS addressing some of the comments on TI and FS:

    First impression: Lynskey Pro29 FS-120 | Dirt Rag Magazine

    Not totally sold on them, looking at other brands recommended.
    There are perfectly acceptable reasons for wanting something US made, but the quality of bikes, especially carbon ones, coming out of Asia is not one of them. So I'm not exactly sure what you mean about value.

  17. #17
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    For comparison purposes you could look at a Santa Cruz Tallboy2, Pivot 429c and Ibis Ripley.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    For comparison purposes you could look at a Santa Cruz Tallboy2, Pivot 429c and Ibis Ripley.
    Thanks!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Jecxz View Post
    Surprised no one has discussed what I wrote about no front derailleur, the SRAM XX1 complete set up is over $1,000 alone!
    Maybe true for complete, but now have 450 miles on my Jet9rdo, running the xx1 crankset and basic xt rear.....no issues 1/2 price

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfdog93 View Post
    Maybe true for complete, but now have 450 miles on my Jet9rdo, running the xx1 crankset and basic xt rear.....no issues 1/2 price
    And you also only have 10 gears.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Jecxz View Post
    ... I believe if you're mass produce bikes you should pass along the savings to the consumer...
    I want to be blown away if I'm going to be spending so much money... At least I decided that I won't do carbon. Having been to various bike shops, there are all sorts of promises being made about carbon frame replacement for fracture...
    When I spend $5k+ on a bike, the value happens to be important to me.
    Could not agree more!

    Marketing coverage, sponsorship, reviews, and hype does little to dispel carbon's lack of long-term durability.
    Which to someone who rides often, and will keep a bike for years - is a far bigger concern than being lightweight.
    Hell, I'm slow, and could lose more frame weight with a good pre-ride data dump.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyin_W View Post
    Could not agree more!

    Marketing coverage, sponsorship, reviews, and hype does little to dispel carbon's lack of long-term durability.
    Which to someone who rides often, and will keep a bike for years - is a far bigger concern than being lightweight.
    Hell, I'm slow, and could lose more frame weight with a good pre-ride data dump.
    Santa Cruz Bicycles COMPANY

    I'd recommend reading Joe Graney's three part primer on Stiffness. Part 3 contains a now famous video of their testing facilities and tests. The tests they show demonstrate that their carbon frames are actually significantly stronger in several respects than the same aluminum frame, and at the end, there is an "anecdotal impact test" that will likely surprise you. The long and short of it is that 1.) it's not just about the weight–there are advantages to carbon that cannot be matched by metal and 2.) you are likely underestimating the durability of carbon. It is a material that has undergone a rapid evolution in the past 20 years (and may still be, we'll see) and not all carbon frames are created equal.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    Santa Cruz Bicycles COMPANY

    I'd recommend reading Joe Graney's three part primer on Stiffness. Part 3 contains a now famous video of their testing facilities and tests. The tests they show demonstrate that their carbon frames are actually significantly stronger in several respects than the same aluminum frame, and at the end, there is an "anecdotal impact test" that will likely surprise you. The long and short of it is that 1.) it's not just about the weight–there are advantages to carbon that cannot be matched by metal and 2.) you are likely underestimating the durability of carbon. It is a material that has undergone a rapid evolution in the past 20 years (and may still be, we'll see) and not all carbon frames are created equal.
    No, thanks...
    Going 29, Possibly Lynskey FS-photobucket-3654-1321051660282.jpg
    Been there to learn the lesson, and will now stick to Al, Fe, or Ti.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyin_W View Post
    No, thanks...
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	photobucket-3654-1321051660282.jpg 
Views:	308 
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ID:	820858
    Been there to learn the lesson, and will now stick to Al, Fe, or Ti.
    It's a good thing metal frames don't break. You should be in the clear. Out of curiosity, what kind of frame was that?

  25. #25
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    Update: a lot of the advice on this thread has been very helpful and I've done a lot of looking at other brands. In terms of pricing, there seems to be a striking difference between TI and aluminum, as pointed out by hillharman --thanks.

    I'm still looking and with some of the comments above I will also reconsider carbon, although my first choice is aluminum.

    I don't know if I would change my mind on non-US made frame.

    Thanks everyone!

  26. #26
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    I have leaned towards U.S. frames just mostly as an American pride thing but in no way have I found them hands above the top Taiwan frames. I now look at companies with top customer service who will back their products. That being said I very much respect a person's mindset of wanting to buy "made in the U.S.A." and I would look into Intense.

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    The 2014 GT Force and Sensors look to be really nice bikes. I'm not sure why you ruled them out when your 12 year old I-Drive served you well. Anyhow, If your immovable on "Made in the USA" , every Santa Cruz I see on my local trails I end up drooling over.

    Doh , my bad the Force and Sensor are 650b.
    2012 GT Karakoram
    2013 Scott Genius 940

  28. #28
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    I think most important thing is that you must like the bike to ride it..
    what work for someone might not work for you..
    I rode an Ellsworth Epi SST before.. didn't like that bike. sold it off less than 6 month that i had it. it was too flexy for me liking.. Yes it does offer plush riding but a lot of pedal went with it as well.
    Build a Lynskey M230 for a friend.. rode it . pretty decent ride and quite stiff and does offer some form of dampening effect when you are riding out in the trail.
    You might want to take a look at Moot as well for FS..

    there are many reason why TI FS is not commonly seen in the trail... one of the reason is that it almost out of reach for most people is due to the price .
    and with Carbon FS frame being more affordable. you will see them more often on the trail as well than a TI....

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    It's a good thing metal frames don't break. You should be in the clear. Out of curiosity, what kind of frame was that?
    Sarcasm suits you, yet lessens credibility.

    Frame was made in the USA by Gary Fisher.

    (by phone)

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyin_W View Post
    Sarcasm suits you, yet lessens credibility.

    Frame was made in the USA by Gary Fisher.

    (by phone)
    But seriously what is your actual point? You broke one carbon frame and your conclusion is... carbon frames all break? They can't be trusted? If you broke an Al frame would you never buy another Al frame?

    Also, Trek/GF carbon frames, the made in the USA ones, are notorious for breaking a lot. Google cracked Superfly and you'll see what I mean.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyin_W View Post
    Sarcasm suits you, yet lessens credibility.

    Frame was made in the USA by Gary Fisher.

    (by phone)
    As for credibility, I've personally crashed multiple carbon frames very hard on numerous occasions and been shocked by how little damage was done. Lost some paint sure, but I've had plenty of rock impacts that would have at least dented an alloy frame. Maybe I'll break one one day, but I'll happily replace it with another carbon frame.

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    Re: Going 29, Possibly Lynskey FS

    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    But seriously what is your actual point?
    Was freak carbon frame fail #2, and never had Al, or Fe fail that wasn't pilot error.

    My point - (long version) that you're pushing carbon to the OP who is seeking a durable bike, and was asking specifically about Ti.

    I made a comment about carbon's proven lack of long term durability, you come out all carbon fanboi. Then I provide a a pic to support my statement, and without any facts, you get sarcastic & judgmental. Get it now?

    (short version) Repost an experienced opinion in 5 years, about durability instead of one that regurgitates marketing hype.







    (by phone)

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyin_W View Post
    Was carbon frame #2, and never had Al, or Fe fail that wasn't pilot error.

    My point - (long version) that you're pushing carbon to the OP who is seeking a durable bike, and was asking specifically about Ti.

    I made a comment about carbon's proven lack of long term durability, you come out all carbon fanboi. Then I provide a a pic to support my statement, and without any facts, you get sarcastic & judgmental. Get it now?

    (short version) Repost an experienced opinion in 5 years, about durability instead of one that regurgitates marketing hype.







    (by phone)
    Where has carbon's lack of long term durability been proven? What I'm reacting against is your patent ignorance when it comes to materials. What is proven is that carbon fiber doesn't fatigue over time in the way that metals do, and so in this objective, measurable, scientific sense, is in fact more durable.

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    hillharman, Let me guess... you've recently spent more than you wanted on a carbon bike, and are posting in this thread that asks about FS Ti, solely to defend your purchase decision.

    Having had 2 FS carbon frames fail without reason, felt I should share my experiences that indicate how this may not be a wise choice for the OP who specifically wants a new bike that will last for years.

    To me this has been proven, and that one must wrap carbon in plastic like a mobile phone to prevent rock strikes speaks volumes towards it's on trail durability. Structural lab tests may indicate superior strength : weight but none of the mfg's offer a lifetime carbon frame warranty. Why? (long term durability)

    Please stop with the insults, and go wrap your bike with a thick screen saver, and hope that the next rock, or stick that bounces off it's downtube or seatstay will prevent it from snapping like a twig.



    (by phone)

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    I have leaned towards U.S. frames just mostly as an American pride thing but in no way have I found them hands above the top Taiwan frames. I now look at companies with top customer service who will back their products. That being said I very much respect a person's mindset of wanting to buy "made in the U.S.A." and I would look into Intense.
    Seems like Intense Bicycles would fit most of your criteria, however, even though they are a US company they clearly state that their carbon frames are made in Taiwan and the bikes are assembled in the US. If you buy AL, those frames are manufactured in the US but it depends on what type of bike you want or what type of trails you ride as to which frame material would best suit your needs. The Intense Spider 29er seems to be a good all around bike though. As for Carbon VS AL, riders do break both but i think it depends on how you treat the bike, some riders never break frames others break frames all the time.

    Off topic but with my 29er build I went the other direction, rather than trying to find a US company that made bikes, I instead went directly to China for my Carbon frame and also quickly realized all the rest of the parts parts from SRAM & Shimano are made in Taiwan anyway. So by personally selecting all the parts, including the XX1 drivetrain, I effectively have a "US Assembled" bike since it was put together in my garage.

  36. #36
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    Also, if you really are thinking of a Ti frame, you should also check out Carver Bikes as well. A US company in Maine, frames are made in Taiwan, and I believe final assembly is still in the US.
    Carver Bikes, Home of the Ti O'Beast Fat Bike

    If you don't mind spending some serious money, Moots is another Ti frame builder in the US that is worth a look:
    Moots

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Jecxz View Post
    Update: a lot of the advice on this thread has been very helpful and I've done a lot of looking at other brands. In terms of pricing, there seems to be a striking difference between TI and aluminum, as pointed out by hillharman --thanks.

    I'm still looking and with some of the comments above I will also reconsider carbon, although my first choice is aluminum.

    I don't know if I would change my mind on non-US made frame.

    Thanks everyone!
    Based on your update post/adjusted interest, my top picks would be:

    Intense spider29, alloy model - Personal bias, best bike I have ever owned. Dual suspension settings makes it a great do-it-all bike. There is a carbon model as well, but if you want AL, just saves you some money.

    Pivot429
    Turner Sultan
    Yeti SB95
    SantaCruz Tallboy Lt

    All these choices aside from the sultan come in a carbon version as well.

  38. #38
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    I'll sell you my made in the USA Ellsworth Evolution. It's even got a big bad made in the usa sticker on it!
    2013 Ibis Mojo HD Special Blend with dropper post, hope/stans wheelset and hope x2/m4 brakes

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    Lots of great opinions here and I appreciate them all! Latest update: I expanded my search out to aluminum again (I currently ride an aluminum GT i-drive 3.0). I really like non-painted straight aluminum and after looking at the brands recommended, I found mostly painted frames.

    I didn't mention hardtail before because I was specifically looking at the Lynskey FS, but I was open to HT and most of the time I lock out my rear shock on the GT anyhow. I then expanded my search into used frames and found a very good condition 2010 USA Made Cannondale 29er Flash 1 frame that I'll get built up.

    I also found a much better bike shop, spoke with them about it before buying and did the deal. See attached photo.



    I plan on getting SRAM XX1 and Mavic rims and a Lefty shock up front.

    All the posts helped, thanks guys!

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