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  1. #1
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    Gary Fisher Supercaliber 29 Ride Pics

    I took the first ride on the new prototype on Thursday across the street from the factory at our trails. The bike rode great. Felt agile and suprisingly plush, I used all three inches of travel while never bottoming out. It was quick in and out of corners and really confident at speed. I think that it handled closer to my hardtail then a Sugar does. The RockShox Motion Control on the rear shock is sweet.

    We don't post weights of prototypes, but I'm confident that when we get to the final version it will be impressive.

    If you want detail pics of the frame then you should check out twentynineinches.com.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by FisherGuy
    I took the first ride on the new prototype on Thursday across the street from the factory at our trails. The bike rode great. Felt agile and suprisingly plush, I used all three inches of travel while never bottoming out. It was quick in and out of corners and really confident at speed. I think that it handled closer to my hardtail then a Sugar does. The RockShox Motion Control on the rear shock is sweet.

    We don't post weights of prototypes, but I'm confident that when we get to the final version it will be impressive.

    If you want detail pics of the frame then you should check out twentynineinches.com.
    That thing looks great!! You should offer it in raw. I think it looks better than painted!!

  3. #3
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    thanks Fisherguy

    For the post.

    I like the Raw Al too.

    Is this still genesis geometry?

    What size is that a photo of? I never liked the extreme top tube bend of the sugars, and this doesn't seem quite so bad.

    Thanks again
    Don't get stuck on stupid!

  4. #4
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    It has been decided.

    I just found my new bike.

    Could you box up a medium, and send it to Japan please?

    Thanks for making such great bikes!

    Chris
    Ride.

  5. #5
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    Thanks For The Update!

    I am very excited to see the final version of this bike. Are we still talking about a Spring time release date? Could be the destination for my tax refund!
    Riden' an Smilin'
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  6. #6
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    Excellent.

    Now I have to have the Race Day, and an El Capitan to go with my 293. Oh, and a better paying employer and a garage cleaning operation.
    Can we have too many 29er bicycle choices?

  7. #7
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    Whoa!

    Offer it in the RAW!!!!
    Looks awesome.
    Sign me up for 1 XL of those and 1 XL Rig.
    What more could a guy need?

    -dan
    Southern NH NEMBA & My LBS & My Blog & Single Speed Alliance

    Take advantage of every opportunity to ride your bicycle!

  8. #8
    Witty McWitterson
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    So I was meaning to ask at teh Trek show, but never realy did. Are those trails open for the public to ride, or are they only for Trek employees? They were pretty damned fun, I'll tell you that!

    Race Day in the flesh. Nice. This will be verrry tempting for me. Another custom steel, or the RaceDay? Will the RaceDay be offered in different level packages(Mid - High - Bling?)? As a frameset? No clue yet? This post will certainly pique interest and drive demand. Thanks Ryan.
    Just a regular guy.

  9. #9
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    Marty,

    Dexter doesn't show a frameset, but I seem to recall hearing at the show that it would be available as a frameset. I sure hope so, because I have pretty much a full build for a frame like that. That was one of the hottest bikes at the show!

    YO MAMA

  10. #10
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    Geeee thanks. I was already having a tough time deciding on which bike to get and now you guys at GF go and build this! I'm really not happy right now. You're making an already difficult decision even harder. Supercal, Leviathan or Asylum?

    OK, I'm kidding. Damn! That looks sweet! Light and fast. Gotta say I like the naked aluminum look as well. We got some serious choices for fs XC bikes now don't we?

    When will we be seeing this in the stores? 2007 you say? Good, I can't wait that long. Guess I'll have to get something else in the meantime.

    Cheers!
    -Ian

  11. #11
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    Reply

    This is a large frame. I'm splitting time with the product manager and engineer on it for the next few days, then it gets boxed and shipped off to Colorado. Travis Brown and JHK are getting together with the PM and engineer for a couple of days of testing. With all of our feedback, round two prototype will be built and tested. It will be interesting to see how much it changes.

    I was hoping to be able to keep the bike for a week. I'm headed on a personal trip with my brother next week down to Arkansas. We are going to ride the Ouachita trails for a couple of days and camp. Would have been the perfect testing grounds too. By the way, does anyone have a suggestion an whether I should bring my single speed or multi on that trip?

    The trails across the street are on private land. You have to be an employee with a signed waiver or an approved guest to ride them. With all of the stunts the liability would be too high if they were open to the public. If you are ever in the area let me know. We can head over for a couple of laps.

    I'm off to the last WORS race.

  12. #12
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    The Ouachita Trail itself is pretty tough in some sections, with hike a bike areas, so bring a bike that you don’t mind carrying. The Ouachita “area” of Arkansas has some other sweet trails that any bike particularly a 29er will thrive on. One of Mr. Fishers factory riders, I think his name is Cameron Chambers, kicked butt on a Fisher 29er this April during the Ouachita Challenge 60 mile race. Mr. Fisher did pretty well too as I remember.

    Bottom line is you can’t really go wrong with any bike you bring as long as it’s a 29er. That section of Arkansas seems ideal for a 29er. I can’t wait for any one of my new 29ers to arrive so I can get back over there. Have a great trip!

  13. #13
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    Thanks for the info, FisherGuy.

    Could you tell us about any 29 tubeless tire/rims combo coming from Bontrager ?
    We have heard rumors on that for quite some time, and i have been disapointed that nothing showed up for this year.

    I would really LOVE a "Tubeless Ready" Jones XR / special rim combo !!!!

    Are you guys waiting for hutchinson michelin and mavic to launch to the public UST for road whells ?
    Frenchspeaking 29"ers community site http://VingtNeuf.org

  14. #14
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    One more vote for the finish to be offered RAW- could be called 'Sushi'
    -the frame design's very compelling- spare, straightforward and honest. This is a bike Howard Roark would ride.
    Nice job!

  15. #15
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    Damn! I want one. I wish that they had that bike ready for Trek worlds, I would have loved to ride that bike on those trails. They were some of the best trails I've ever ridden. I can't wait 'til those bikes are available. Chalk up another vote for Raw!

    Fisher Guy, Tell Mock that he needs to bring that bike to Northfield!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by theCush
    One more vote for the finish to be offered RAW- could be called 'Sushi'
    -the frame design's very compelling- spare, straightforward and honest. This is a bike Howard Roark would ride.
    Nice job!

    I also would be in for the raw finish. I had a Cannondale 1FG that was raw...I loved that look. It would also save some weight and mainly it would save me from worrying about any paint chips!
    THIS SPACE FOR RENT

  17. #17
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    I'll take one in raw too please.

  18. #18
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    My Cube bike is raw/clearcoat with just a bunch of suptle but colorful decals. Very nice. Actually the team colors too. And lighter than powdercoat.

  19. #19
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    Someone had to say it!

    Quote Originally Posted by FisherGuy
    I took the first ride on the new prototype on Thursday across the street from the factory at our trails. The bike rode great. Felt agile and suprisingly plush, I used all three inches of travel while never bottoming out. It was quick in and out of corners and really confident at speed. I think that it handled closer to my hardtail then a Sugar does. The RockShox Motion Control on the rear shock is sweet.

    We don't post weights of prototypes, but I'm confident that when we get to the final version it will be impressive.

    If you want detail pics of the frame then you should check out twentynineinches.com.
    That basic design +2"=

    Need a trail-bike!!!!!!!!!!!!

  20. #20
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    Lookin' Good

    Hey Fisher guy, this bike is just what I have in mind. I for one prefer a simple single pivot design. There may be advantages to the vaunted Horst link but I would lay money down that lots of riders couldn't tell the difference in a "blind" ride test between a Horst bike and a properly designed single pivot frame.

    Also, please try to convince the powers that be that you would lose sales if you don't offer a frame only option as well as complete bikes. My days of buying a complete bike off the floor are long gone and I think many 29er riders fee the same.

    Keep em' coming
    There are three kinds of people: those of us that are good at math and those that are not.

  21. #21
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    Rigidity

    Fisherguy,

    I'm in the process of sifting through the Full sussers to settle on buying a new one and have owned two sugar 29ers. My only complaint was the lack of lateral rigidity of the rear end - felt a little squirrelly on the sugars. Perhaps you could comment on the Supercal vs the sugar in this department.

    Thanks!

  22. #22
    no fat chicks
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    you know what's cool about raw aluminum bikes..
    you can polish em up real chromey like
    and scare horses really bad out on the trail
    #1 NORBA elite singlespeed racer 30-34 age group

  23. #23
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    what?

    how can a shiney bike that scares horses possibly be cool???
    1)spook's the horse, the horse freak's out and hurt's it's rider or the dummy riding the said bike................not good no matter how you look at it!
    2) pissing off the equestrians,(which have way more moneythan most mtbr's) isn't good
    especially when we have to share the trail's with them, and makes land mgr's job's THAT '
    much harder....which ='s less trails for all of us to ride in the long run.


    still think scaring the horses is COOL??

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by epicmadness


    still think scaring the horses is COOL??

    affirmative
    #1 NORBA elite singlespeed racer 30-34 age group

  25. #25
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    Fisherguy, when you coming to Arkansas?
    I'm out of Hot Springs close to some of the best riding in the area.
    Be sure to ride the Syllamo trail in mountain view and don't forget the Womble trail.
    The Ouachita trail is a sweet ride but much rougher than the womble.
    Here is a link with most of the trails in Arkansas.
    www.mtbark.com
    Let me know what dates you will be here, maybe we can hook up for a ride.

  26. #26
    Don't be a sheep
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    Quote Originally Posted by epicmadness
    still think scaring the horses is COOL??
    Uh, well, ya, pretty much. Eating thems cool too.
    "Do not touch the trim"

  27. #27
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    Fork travel?

    The pics look like you are running that Reba at 80mm. Was hoping the bike would be designed for a 100mm fork. Or, would runnning a Reba at 100mm give it a more trail bike, less racey, geo and make this a dual purpose bike with a changing of the fork travel?

    29erchico

  28. #28
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    idiots

    then don't piss and moan to us when your favorite trails are closed because of your stupidity.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by FisherGuy
    I took the first ride on the new prototype on Thursday across the street from the factory at our trails. The bike rode great. Felt agile and suprisingly plush, I used all three inches of travel while never bottoming out. It was quick in and out of corners and really confident at speed. I think that it handled closer to my hardtail then a Sugar does. The RockShox Motion Control on the rear shock is sweet.

    We don't post weights of prototypes, but I'm confident that when we get to the final version it will be impressive.

    If you want detail pics of the frame then you should check out twentynineinches.com.
    Well.....I don't want to be a wet blanket, because I really like what GF is doing with the 29'er movement, but isn't that top tube going to be subject to quite high point-loading just like the rig was???

    There were a few failures as I recall. Placing the shock mounting right near the bend in the top tube may lead to more metal fatigue and frame failure right at that point.

    Only the testers / designers will know for sure, but it has the potential to be a problem..

    Very nice looking bike, though..I like it.


    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    Well.....I don't want to be a wet blanket, because I really like what GF is doing with the 29'er movement, but isn't that top tube going to be subject to quite high point-loading just like the rig was???

    There were a few failures as I recall. Placing the shock mounting right near the bend in the top tube may lead to more metal fatigue and frame failure right at that point.

    Only the testers / designers will know for sure, but it has the potential to be a problem..

    Very nice looking bike, though..I like it.


    R.
    I don't want to be a wet blanket, because I really like what GF is doing with the 29'er movement, but isn't that top tube going to be subject to quite high point-loading just like the rig was??? It is the SUGAR not the RIG.

    The design is similar to the SC Superlight. But you are right about the top tube
    Attached Images Attached Images

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeZee
    I don't want to be a wet blanket, because I really like what GF is doing with the 29'er movement, but isn't that top tube going to be subject to quite high point-loading just like the rig was??? It is the SUGAR not the RIG.

    The design is similar to the SC Superlight. But you are right about the top tube

    ...ooops..sorry, my bad...got the models mixed up..


    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    Well.....I don't want to be a wet blanket, because I really like what GF is doing with the 29'er movement, but isn't that top tube going to be subject to quite high point-loading just like the rig was???

    There were a few failures as I recall. Placing the shock mounting right near the bend in the top tube may lead to more metal fatigue and frame failure right at that point.

    Only the testers / designers will know for sure, but it has the potential to be a problem..

    Very nice looking bike, though..I like it.


    R.
    Tell me about it. I have a replacement Sugar frame coming, my current one has a crack which started at the weld of the shock bracket to the top tube. The crack is now working its way around the top tube. I wonder why GF can't just build a 29 inch version of the Fat Possum. Sure it is a heavier all-mountain frame, but the XO model with the Maverick fork sure looks nice.

  33. #33
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    Good job! Fat Possum

    Quote Originally Posted by Quasi
    Tell me about it. I have a replacement Sugar frame coming, my current one has a crack which started at the weld of the shock bracket to the top tube. The crack is now working its way around the top tube. I wonder why GF can't just build a 29 inch version of the Fat Possum. Sure it is a heavier all-mountain frame, but the XO model with the Maverick fork sure looks nice.
    Yes! Exactly what I want. How sweet would that be?

  34. #34
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    I would also like to see the frame offered as a frame only. I have a complete bike with all the parts waiting for that frame.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by FisherGuy
    I took the first ride on the new prototype on Thursday across the street from the factory at our trails. The bike rode great. Felt agile and suprisingly plush, I used all three inches of travel while never bottoming out. It was quick in and out of corners and really confident at speed. I think that it handled closer to my hardtail then a Sugar does. The RockShox Motion Control on the rear shock is sweet.

    We don't post weights of prototypes, but I'm confident that when we get to the final version it will be impressive.

    If you want detail pics of the frame then you should check out twentynineinches.com.
    When will there be a 1,8" version of the Bontrager XR ??? On the bonty website it's not even listed - so will there be no 1,8" tire for 06 ???
    It's got to be AUSTRIA !!!

  36. #36
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    What are we looking at for a retail price, ballpark? I know it's early in the development to really zero in, but I've heard that we may be looking at a pricetag of $4G's for a built up Supercaliber. I hope that's not the case, because I've got my eyes on that bike to succeed my Paragon
    Last edited by JoelM; 10-30-2005 at 01:17 PM.

  37. #37
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    I believe the XR 1.8 is already being shipped to dealers as a temporary fix for the problem that they have with the bad chainstays on some of the '06 bikes. Its definitely listed in the dealer catalog.

    YO MAMA

  38. #38
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    Delayed till '07

    Well, as sometimes is the case with new product, there has been a reported delay in the release of the 29 inch version of the Super Caliber Race Day bike. My source, who is a Trek employee, says that the release has been pushed back until June, at the earliest, which effectively makes it an '07 by Trek's own reckoning, anyway. The 26 inch version will be out earlier. He said to me that the 29 inch bike probably will be released as an '07.

    Currently, race team members have access to the prototype. Cameron Chambers is thought to have it now, and there is a possibility that there is another proto by this time, but details were sketchy. Sounds like they are trying to work the bugs out of the design as it translates to the 29 inch wheels.

    Rats! I was hoping to get into one of these for '06, but that'll have to wait!
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Well, as sometimes is the case with new product, there has been a reported delay in the release of the 29 inch version of the Super Caliber Race Day bike. My source, who is a Trek employee, says that the release has been pushed back until June, at the earliest, which effectively makes it an '07 by Trek's own reckoning, anyway. The 26 inch version will be out earlier. He said to me that the 29 inch bike probably will be released as an '07.

    Currently, race team members have access to the prototype. Cameron Chambers is thought to have it now, and there is a possibility that there is another proto by this time, but details were sketchy. Sounds like they are trying to work the bugs out of the design as it translates to the 29 inch wheels.

    Rats! I was hoping to get into one of these for '06, but that'll have to wait!
    Geez, how long does it take to put out something as simple as a bike frame? Sounds like it isn't that high a priority. Plus I think the market is rather limited for a 3" travel bike anyway, which may have some bearing on the decision. Of course I may be wrong, but the market is going to longer travel bikes. I mean honestly, I don't think I would want to trade my 4" travel 292 for a 3" travel Race Day.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDee
    Geez, how long does it take to put out something as simple as a bike frame? Sounds like it isn't that high a priority. Plus I think the market is rather limited for a 3" travel bike anyway, which may have some bearing on the decision. Of course I may be wrong, but the market is going to longer travel bikes. I mean honestly, I don't think I would want to trade my 4" travel 292 for a 3" travel Race Day.

    As someone with some limited experience with production, it takes longer than you think. You have to build the first one with your best educated guess as to what will ride well. You get feedback which takes awhile to process all the different opinions. You build another one or two the corrections. Then, you get more feedback. You build a pre-production model and test that for performance and to make sure that the thing doesn't have any fabrication flaws. All of this takes time. Then you have to get the model in the production schedule with all of the other models being built, since I am sure trek/fisher doesn't need or want the capacity to build everything at once. This process which was what we did, takes time and happens while other projects are going on in the company. Stuff just takes time to get it right. I don't think 9 -10 months is unreasonable

  41. #41
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    WOW.....Looks great!

    As much as I love hardtails....having something like this in my stable would be a ton of fun!

    Oh.....I like the raw finish as well!

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    Well.....I don't want to be a wet blanket, because I really like what GF is doing with the 29'er movement, but isn't that top tube going to be subject to quite high point-loading just like the rig was???

    There were a few failures as I recall. Placing the shock mounting right near the bend in the top tube may lead to more metal fatigue and frame failure right at that point.

    Only the testers / designers will know for sure, but it has the potential to be a problem..

    Very nice looking bike, though..I like it.


    R.
    I think that they should add a gusset rearward from the front shock pivot to the top tube. This would triangulate and effectively bridge the curved section of the top tube, reducing the point loading at the curve. It also would be stressed in tension instead of compression as is the current design. What you would end up with is a truss=STRONG!

  43. #43
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    Good job! Fixed two weaknesses at once!

    Awesome! Assuming that bike really is all AL, Fisher fixed the two biggest weeknesses of the Sugar 29ers at once!

    1. No more carbon fiber = no more broken rear triangles. Yay!
    2. Elevated chain stay = no more chain suck. Wahooo!

    How's the BB height / pedal clearance? That's my only other real complaint about my Sugar 292.

  44. #44
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    slight delay not june but april.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Well, as sometimes is the case with new product, there has been a reported delay in the release of the 29 inch version of the Super Caliber Race Day bike. My source, who is a Trek employee, says that the release has been pushed back until June, at the earliest, which effectively makes it an '07 by Trek's own reckoning, anyway. The 26 inch version will be out earlier. He said to me that the 29 inch bike probably will be released as an '07.

    Currently, race team members have access to the prototype. Cameron Chambers is thought to have it now, and there is a possibility that there is another proto by this time, but details were sketchy. Sounds like they are trying to work the bugs out of the design as it translates to the 29 inch wheels.

    Rats! I was hoping to get into one of these for '06, but that'll have to wait!
    i mentioned to my trek/fisher rep about reading that the supercals where being delayed until june and he said that it was bogus. he told me early april for the supercal 29. i already have 5 on backorder. also retail price will be somewhere in the neighborhood of $2200-$2000.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_G
    Assuming that bike really is all AL, Fisher fixed the two biggest weeknesses of the Sugar 29ers at once!

    1. No more carbon fiber = no more broken rear triangles. Yay!
    2. Elevated chain stay = no more chain suck. Wahooo!
    .
    The biggest weakness I was aware of is the tendency for the frame to crack, especially on the Top Tube where the shock mounts.

  46. #46
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    looks cool and i bet it wil be nice and light and a racers wet dream. but i don't understand why everyone is drooling about this bike and wating so eagerly for it's arival.

    it looks just like the astix monk that has been out for a while now. wouldn't eveyone who really wants this be happy on that for the meantime?


    all either company has done (it seems to me at least) is take the superlight design and outfit it with 29" tires. not a bad idea at all; but nothing revolutionary....

  47. #47
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    Let's Hope You Are Right, but..........

    Quote Originally Posted by joeywv
    i mentioned to my trek/fisher rep about reading that the supercals where being delayed until june and he said that it was bogus. he told me early april for the supercal 29. i already have 5 on backorder. also retail price will be somewhere in the neighborhood of $2200-$2000.
    This subject of the release date for the Fisher Super Caliber 29 inch wheeled bike is getting pretty ludicriss! I have heard three different stories from three different "inside Trek" sources. The really funny thing is, obviously Trek doesn't even know what's going on, assuming all three stories are actually from within Trek.

    I think we can safely assume that the TWENTY SIX inch wheeled version of the bike will be first out of their warehouses. It makes more sense to first get the model out that will sell more units, right? Then the 29"er should follow afterwards. Of the two sources I have talked to, the story that the 26 inch wheeled bike is coming out first is the only common denominator.

    Add to this that the prototype is oddly absent, other than my source telling me that Cameron Chambers has one, it makes me wonder if they need to make more tweaks to the design. Anybody seen the proto lately?

    Judging from past performances, I'd be more willing to believe the late June date than an April date. Again, let's hope I'm wrong.............but I'm not convinced I am!
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  48. #48
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    Monk?

    The Monk has 50% more rear travel than the Supercaliber (4.5"). And it is available as a frameset for $999. Assuming the Monk is not a noodle why not go that way? Well, it may not be racey quick steering enough.

    I'm waiting on the 4.5" travel niner bikes to hit the market. I'm holding out for the consumate woodsbike myself. Lots of good stuff happening in the 29er world right now.

    29erchico
    Last edited by 29erchico; 11-21-2005 at 11:25 PM.

  49. #49
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    Ride On

    Can't wait for the real deal to be out. I bet you guys and gals are itchin to see the final product too. The Sugar is a great bike, but why not push the envelope and give more folks what they want. The thing I am most excited is for the standardazation of the 29 inch rim/wheel. Pretty cool to be able to interchange rims and tires without the issues we have had to deal with for the past couple of years. I say bring it on!

    Nat Ross


    Quote Originally Posted by max-a-mill
    looks cool and i bet it wil be nice and light and a racers wet dream. but i don't understand why everyone is drooling about this bike and wating so eagerly for it's arival.

    it looks just like the astix monk that has been out for a while now. wouldn't eveyone who really wants this be happy on that for the meantime?


    all either company has done (it seems to me at least) is take the superlight design and outfit it with 29" tires. not a bad idea at all; but nothing revolutionary....

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat Ross
    ...The thing I am most excited is for the standardazation of the 29 inch rim/wheel. Pretty cool to be able to interchange rims and tires without the issues we have had to deal with for the past couple of years. I say bring it on!

    Nat Ross
    Nat, could you please elaborate on this. How have the rims become standardized? How are they different from what we have now?
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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29erchico
    The Monk has 50% more rear travel than the Supercaliber (4.5"). And it is available as a frameset for $999. Assuming the Monk is not a noodle why not go that way? Well, it may not be racey quick steering enough.

    I'm waiting on the 4.5" travel niner bikes to hit the market. I'm holding out for the consumate woodsbike myself. Lots of good stuff happening in the 29er world right now.

    29erchico
    where can one buy the monk?

  52. #52
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    5 inches

    Quote Originally Posted by Nat Ross
    Can't wait for the real deal to be out. I bet you guys and gals are itchin to see the final product too. The Sugar is a great bike, but why not push the envelope and give more folks what they want. The thing I am most excited is for the standardazation of the 29 inch rim/wheel. Pretty cool to be able to interchange rims and tires without the issues we have had to deal with for the past couple of years. I say bring it on!

    Nat Ross
    but why not push the envelope and give more folks what they want

    What do we want???

    I want a 5" trail bike

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeZee
    but why not push the envelope and give more folks what they want

    What do we want???

    I want a 5" trail bike
    Here ya go:
    An Open Letter to Mike Curiak (Behemoth pics/review)
    Behemoth as all-day climbing bike? Yep.

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  54. #54
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    But the monk?

    Quote Originally Posted by langen
    where can one buy the monk?
    Any shop with a BTI account can order you one.

    http://www.bti-usa.com

    29erchico
    Last edited by 29erchico; 11-22-2005 at 09:54 AM.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29erchico
    The Monk has 50% more rear travel than the Supercaliber (4.5"). And it is available as a frameset for $999. Assuming the Monk is not a noodle why not go that way? Well, it may not be racey quick steering enough.

    I'm waiting on the 4.5" travel niner bikes to hit the market. I'm holding out for the consumate woodsbike myself. Lots of good stuff happening in the 29er world right now.

    29erchico
    Why are you promoting something you apparently have no experience with?

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_G
    Awesome! Assuming that bike really is all AL, Fisher fixed the two biggest weeknesses of the Sugar 29ers at once!

    1. No more carbon fiber = no more broken rear triangles. Yay!
    2. Elevated chain stay = no more chain suck. Wahooo!

    How's the BB height / pedal clearance? That's my only other real complaint about my Sugar 292.
    Hmmm....I've never had a problem with chain suck in my 292. It's a great bike IMO.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29inch
    The biggest weakness I was aware of is the tendency for the frame to crack, especially on the Top Tube where the shock mounts.

    Same here. No chainsuck, no toptube crack. If I haven't gotten it yet or broken it yet...I can't see it happening - it has been ridden so hard.

    The 292 is a super solid bike - set it up a bit stiffer for racing, give it some more sag for riding w/ my buddies that have 5+" trail bikes. A great do-everything bicycle. I've even been riding it to work while my road bike is collecting dust.
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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super E
    Hmmm....I've never had a problem with chain suck in my 292. It's a great bike IMO.
    My chain suck problem wasn't exactly a problem with the 292. It was fixed by replacing my small chainring, (old thread here) but by then a lot of damage had been done to the frame because of the tight clearance between the small chainring and the frame. Also, all the chain slap from underneath has worn away all the paint and is eating into the Al. It's only a matter of time 'til it eats all the way through. A "lizard skin" style protector doesn't fit there due to the tight clearance. I've also just wrapped duck/elec. tape around the frame there, but again, the chain clearance is so tight that if there is any grime build up on the chain it gets wedged in there right away. Plus, a layer of tape only lasts a few rides before I have to redo it.

    Does anyone else ever have this problem? What do you guys to do fix it?

    The elevated chain stay fixes both the chain clearance and chain slap issues.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2melow
    Same here. No chainsuck, no toptube crack. If I haven't gotten it yet or broken it yet...I can't see it happening - it has been ridden so hard.
    No toptube crack here either and mine has certainly been ridden hard as well. You guys have probably all seen the broken carbon fiber seat stay pic already, but if not, it's here

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_G
    My chain suck problem wasn't exactly a problem with the 292. It was fixed by replacing my small chainring, (old thread here) but by then a lot of damage had been done to the frame because of the tight clearance between the small chainring and the frame. Also, all the chain slap from underneath has worn away all the paint and is eating into the Al. It's only a matter of time 'til it eats all the way through. A "lizard skin" style protector doesn't fit there due to the tight clearance. I've also just wrapped duck/elec. tape around the frame there, but again, the chain clearance is so tight that if there is any grime build up on the chain it gets wedged in there right away. Plus, a layer of tape only lasts a few rides before I have to redo it.

    Does anyone else ever have this problem? What do you guys to do fix it?

    The elevated chain stay fixes both the chain clearance and chain slap issues.
    Chain slap is common with many bikes and my 292 seems ordinary in terms of chain slap and totally unlike what you are describing (i.e. I have no nicks in my paint or any other signs of wear from the chain slap). I try to minimize chain slap by having my chain cut to the proper length and I also shift into a larger rear cog when going down a bumpy downhill.

  61. #61
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    Look underneath

    Quote Originally Posted by Super E
    ...I have no nicks in my paint or any other signs of wear from the chain slap). I try to minimize chain slap by having my chain cut to the proper length and I also shift into a larger rear cog when going down a bumpy downhill.
    When you get a chance, look underneath the chainstay near the small chain ring and pivot point by the BB. This is where I get the most wear, regardless of which rear cog I'm in. I will be totally floored if you have no nicks in your paint or wear right there! It does seem to help to go to the middle front ring as this puts the chain further away from that point... When I get a chance, I'll try to post a picture here.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_G
    When you get a chance, look underneath the chainstay near the small chain ring and pivot point by the BB. This is where I get the most wear, regardless of which rear cog I'm in. I will be totally floored if you have no nicks in your paint or wear right there! It does seem to help to go to the middle front ring as this puts the chain further away from that point... When I get a chance, I'll try to post a picture here.
    I did and there are some minor signs of the chain hitting exactly where you mentioned. Chain slap is a normal function most bikes and yes it will cause some kind of damage. All my bikes except one of have the same kind of marks (this includes my 292, two other hardtail MTBs, a tandem, and 2 roadbikes). The only bike that did not have these marks was my SS. This is not a 292 problem but rather a general bicycle normality for the most part.

  63. #63
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    Why??

    Quote Originally Posted by Super E
    Why are you promoting something you apparently have no experience with?
    Because I have both personal and vicarious experience with Fishers cracking. Fisher builds some good performing 29er bikes, at the best price points, but a lot of their offerings the last few years have been prone to breaking. A lot of the guys in the shops are really getting sick and tired of having to replace so many Fisher frames and components. Heard the same things about Trek as well lately. If this keeps up, there will be a lot less shops selling these bikes in a few years.

    Because I am an engineer. Take a look at the Supercal vs the Monk swingarm systems. I see much more solid design and material selection in the Monk. As in stiffer and more durable.

    Because it can take up to two months to get a new swingarm out of Fisher. Luck was with me and there was a loaner swingarm available from my local Fisher dealer. Praise the lard that they take good care of me.

    Because it sucks to have your swingarm break 11 miles from town and have to hoof it on in. Been there, done that.

    Because the joy of MTB riding is all about going out and riding as worry free as possible. It is not about having to order a replacement swingarm for your bike, and pay for it yourself, as I am doing, so I can have a spare on hand when the current one on my bike breaks. It is not about wondering how long to ride the current swingarm before switching it out to prevent having another long walk out of the woods.

    Unless Fisher changes their design efforts to include building bikes that hold up out in the real world, and develops a track record of doing so, I'm not buying any more bikes from them.

    Gang, go out and buy all the Fisher 29er's you want. But you have been warned.

    Ryan, I hope you are reading this.

    29erchico
    .

  64. #64
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    You still did not answer why you are promoting a bike you have no experience with. I did not ask why you did not like Fisher bikes.

  65. #65
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    Another 292 lover here. I had the chain suck resolved with a SRAm chain and LX chain rings.

    Other than that, it has been a great ride so far. I've been riding epics and 24 hr races with it this year and it's been dead nuts reliable. I'm also 6'5", 190 lbs. and generally not nice to my equipment....uh, bike equipment that is.

  66. #66
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    Another Fisher 293 vote here. Mine has been bulletproof through 2 years of pretty abusive riding and commuting. One thing to keep in mind regarding Trek and Fisher is that the volume of bikes they sell is much higher than most other brands. More people riding them = more people breaking them. I am curious about the Astrix bike too. Maybe if my 293 breaks I'll try it.

  67. #67
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    Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Super E
    You still did not answer why you are promoting a bike you have no experience with. I did not ask why you did not like Fisher bikes.
    I am not promoting that folk go out and buy the Monk as much as I would like them to compare and contrast it with this Supercal that Fisher is offering. Being a manufacturing engineer, I know that a firm can build a less durable product for a lot less money if it is willing to tolerate a given (higher) failure rate. It is obvious to me, for many reasons, that Fisher has chosen to do just that. When I look at the Monk, with it's much more stout swingarm assy., employing square tube main swingarm elements, it suggests to me that a lower failure rate is desired by Astrix on the bikes they sell.

    Both bikes use the very well proven single pivot design popularized by Santa Cruz for so many years. Myself and many others have ridden this design and found it solid and trail worthy when built correctly.

    So to spell it out for you: The Monk appears to me to be a much better choice to me for someone who would rather ride a bike, not wait for replacement parts from a manufacturer who deems a higher failure rate acceptable. My backgrounds as a multi-skilled technician, engineer, Fisher owner and 20+ years thrashing MTB's give me the insight needed to make these judgement calls without swinging a leg over the Monk yet.

    I did not say I don't like Fisher bikes, on the contrary, I like many aspects of them. I just am done buying them until they decide to get their failure rate down to a much more acceptable level. Speeding up the pipeline of replacment frame components would not hurt a bit either.

    I do love the way my 293 performs, it is an awsome bike. When you are not pushing it 11 miles back into town because it broke, that is.

    29chico
    Last edited by 29erchico; 11-23-2005 at 10:45 AM.

  68. #68
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    So why not start a Monk thread based on your insight to spread your experience?

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super E
    You still did not answer why you are promoting a bike you have no experience with. I did not ask why you did not like Fisher bikes.

    I don't read it as so much promoting as offering other bikes that are options. THese options are either available now (monk) or soon and before the fisher (Niner). I believe this is a discussion board, and so we are free to discussion whatever the heck we want. It is also a great way to blow some time waiting for the in-laws to arrive for Thanksgiving this weekend.

    I don't share 29ericho's anti Fisher bias, but I don't mind anything he brought up. The monk at least looks similar to the Fisher. Theorizing about the way it rides is OK with me since there are not many that have riden a Monk around here.

  70. #70
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    Upset Mine's cracked too.

    Ugggghhh... After reading about the top tube crack problem some of you have had, I looked mine over. Sure enough, the top tube is cracked right where the shock mount is welded on. The crack goes more than halfway around the whole tube - I can't believe I didn't notice it before. It's probably been that way for 100s of miles, but now I'm not so keen on riding the bike now that I *know* there is a huge a$$ crack in the frame.

  71. #71
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    non warranty, eh?

    Because it sucks to have your swingarm break 11 miles from town and have to hoof it on in. Been there, done that.

    Because the joy of MTB riding is all about going out and riding as worry free as possible. It is not about having to order a replacement swingarm for your bike, and pay for it yourself, as I am doing, so I can have a spare on hand when the current one on my bike breaks. It is not about wondering how long to ride the current swingarm before switching it out to prevent having another long walk out of the woods.

    Unless Fisher changes their design efforts to include building bikes that hold up out in the real world, and develops a track record of doing so, I'm not buying any more bikes from them.

    .[/QUOTE]

    I myself (and others on this board) have been running the same Sugar since they first came out with no issues. sounds like the issue is with you and not Fisher. Since you had to pay for the swingarm, one can only assume it wasn't covered by warranty. and to me that sounds like a crash. and how can you pass judgement on the SuperCal when everyone knows the production version isn't going to be what's pictured above. And how many Sugar's are out there compared to the Monk? Obviously we are going to see more broken Sugar's just because there are more of them out there. And even more Trek's. The more bikes a company sells, the more broken ones we are going to see. doesn't mean they are less durable than the others. Sorry you had to walk out of the woods with a broken bike, happens to everyone, but it's part of the risk associated with our sport. It's bound to happen eventually!

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by funkenstein
    Because it sucks to have your swingarm break 11 miles from town and have to hoof it on in. Been there, done that.

    Because the joy of MTB riding is all about going out and riding as worry free as possible. It is not about having to order a replacement swingarm for your bike, and pay for it yourself, as I am doing, so I can have a spare on hand when the current one on my bike breaks. It is not about wondering how long to ride the current swingarm before switching it out to prevent having another long walk out of the woods.

    Unless Fisher changes their design efforts to include building bikes that hold up out in the real world, and develops a track record of doing so, I'm not buying any more bikes from them.

    .
    . sounds like the issue is with you and not Fisher. Since you had to pay for the swingarm, one can only assume it wasn't covered by warranty.[/QUOTE]

    Funk:

    You may want to brush up on your critical reading skills. My post you are refering to says, plain as day, that I'm buying a SPARE swingarm (with my own cash) so that I can have a spare on hand when my current one breaks. The old swingarm broke on the forward edge of the recess that allows the replaceable der. hanger to be inset into the dropout area. No crash was involved. If you pop off your der. hanger and look you will see that this pocket (recess) results in only a very thin bit of AL to connect the chainstay with the dropout area. My new swingarm (provided free on warr. ,BTW) is unchanged. I have heard of quite a few Sugar swingarms that have failed at this point, it is an obvious stress riser.

    If I didn't like the bike I would not be getting a spare swingarm.

    Please post a report of your breaking the swingarm on your Sugar at the point described above, when it happens. so I can give you the old "I told you so".

    A little arogant? Yep, I can resemble that at times! This must be one of them...

    29erchico

  73. #73
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    New info.

    Check out some good info on what's going on with the Super Caliber.
    http://twentynineinches.com/2005/11/...-29er-updates/

    Interesting anecdote on Travis Brown and Horgan-Kobelski. Faster on 29"ers? Who'd a thunk it?!
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  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_G
    Ugggghhh... After reading about the top tube crack problem some of you have had, I looked mine over. Sure enough, the top tube is cracked right where the shock mount is welded on. The crack goes more than halfway around the whole tube - I can't believe I didn't notice it before. It's probably been that way for 100s of miles, but now I'm not so keen on riding the bike now that I *know* there is a huge a$$ crack in the frame.
    Mine cracked on both sides and the cracks are going underneath the TT. I am still riding it because the new frames which supposedly have fixed the weld problem are not out yet. I am keeping an eye on the cracks and will start to worry when I see a crack start to spread over the top of the tube. IMHO if the tube is strong enough, maybe the cracks will never start to go over the TT and they will just add some flex to the frame.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quasi
    Mine cracked on both sides and the cracks are going underneath the TT. I am still riding it because the new frames which supposedly have fixed the weld problem are not out yet. I am keeping an eye on the cracks and will start to worry when I see a crack start to spread over the top of the tube. IMHO if the tube is strong enough, maybe the cracks will never start to go over the TT and they will just add some flex to the frame.
    can you give more detailed information about the changes in the new 292/3 frames? did a fisher rep tell you? thanx

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by starre
    can you give more detailed information about the changes in the new 292/3 frames? did a fisher rep tell you? thanx
    No, I don't know anymore. I just heard from my LBS that the new frames had something new in the welding process.

    The cracks start at the edge of the weld. I guess it is a stress point. The weld won't flex like the tube, so the tube flexes and breaks itself off at the edge of the weld. I am sure there are a lot more knowledgable people here who could tell you what is happening, but that is my guess. Not sure how a welding process could be done differently to solve the problem. Maybe they have flexible solder.

  77. #77
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    Good job! smooth welds

    Quote Originally Posted by Quasi
    No, I don't know anymore. I just heard from my LBS that the new frames had something new in the welding process.

    The cracks start at the edge of the weld. I guess it is a stress point. The weld won't flex like the tube, so the tube flexes and breaks itself off at the edge of the weld. I am sure there are a lot more knowledgable people here who could tell you what is happening, but that is my guess. Not sure how a welding process could be done differently to solve the problem. Maybe they have flexible solder.
    the shock mounts now use smooth (double pass) welds like Trek uses on Klein and the alu Trek road bikes...I also think they added some cable guides towards the front of the underside of the top tube...

  78. #78
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    Inside Trek or outside sales?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    This subject of the release date for the Fisher Super Caliber 29 inch wheeled bike is getting pretty ludicriss! I have heard three different stories from three different "inside Trek" sources. The really funny thing is, obviously Trek doesn't even know what's going on, assuming all three stories are actually from within Trek.

    ...............................
    The Trek reps who most of us run into in our shops in our respective regions are outside of the loop frequently. Unless they just came from the Mother Ship, they often have old or second hand info that's not entirely accurate. Even a person who works at the main plant may not have the correct info on a new Fisher project, especially if he work for another department in Trek.

    It's just the nature of the beast, still any news is better than no news even if it turns out to be a bit off. I just try not to get too excited or bummed about anything I hear, I wait until I see what really happens. I was eying a new Lemond Cyclocross bike but had been told the disc version I wanted was a couple months off. Less than two weeks later one showed up in the shop in my size, now it's in my garage
    Two Wheeled and Too Big

  79. #79
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    In and Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattman
    The Trek reps who most of us run into in our shops in our respective regions are outside of the loop frequently. Unless they just came from the Mother Ship, they often have old or second hand info that's not entirely accurate. Even a person who works at the main plant may not have the correct info on a new Fisher project, especially if he work for another department in Trek.

    It's just the nature of the beast, still any news is better than no news even if it turns out to be a bit off. I just try not to get too excited or bummed about anything I hear, I wait until I see what really happens. I was eying a new Lemond Cyclocross bike but had been told the disc version I wanted was a couple months off. Less than two weeks later one showed up in the shop in my size, now it's in my garage
    The sources, (now FOUR different ones!!) are both in and outside of Trek. At the Trek show, in August, you could talk to several folks intimately involved with projects and get different stories about the same thing. Take the issue of the tubeless 29 inch Bontrager tires and wheels as an example. I got completely different, and conflicting stories about whether or not they were in developement, or would become available soon. Maybe this is some folks way of "dis-informing" you, while others tell the truth. Either way, it's interesting to note that it seems to always be the case with Trek that you get these conflicting stories.
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