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  1. #1
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    FORM Prevail, Titanium Dream Bike = Achieved

    Hello Chaps, here is the build thread for my brand spankin new FORM Prevail.

    Here is the build:
    Frame: Custom Geo Ti Prevail (details below). Paragon Hooded Sliding Dropouts. Over-sized Head Tube for Tapered Steer Tube. Post Mount Slider for Rear Break. PF30. Dark Bead Blast "Decals", Copper Head Badge
    Fork: 2012 Fox FIT F29, RLC, 100mm travel, Tapered, 15mm Thru Axle, Custom Gryphon Decals
    Wheelset: Sunringle Black Flag Pro 29er, Tubless setup
    Drivetrain: Full SRAM X-9, 2x10. PF30, 11-34 Rear Cassette, KMC X10SL Gold Chain, 28x42 Crank, 175mm arm length.
    Brakes: Shimano XT M785, 160mm rear rotor, 180mm front rotor
    Cockpit: Chris King IS-7 Head Set, Thomson X4 90mm 0deg Stem, Awnser Protaper Carbon Bars, Cankbrothers Iodine Foam Grips, Custom Form Top Cap
    Tires: Kenda Slant Six UST 2.2
    Seatpost: FORM Titanium
    Saddle: Specialized Phenom 145mm, Ti Rails

    Daryl did a spectacular job helping me setup the geometry I desired. I did not want some thouroughbred, uber light, fairy mobile, but at the same time i didn't want a "all mountain" piggy. I wanted a working mans trail steed, a hardtail to do anything I wanted with, while remaining light and nimble enough to race. I was thinking of some magical combination of my Karate Monkeys feel, and my Enduro's "toss-ability" for tight and technical terrain. I also wanted a shorter cockpit with big bars, and a nice stable downhill ride. A tall order of goldy-locks like requests of "not to heavy, not to light, not to soft, not to hard, etc..." The Geo he came up with looked excellent; and with a round of tweaks became exactly what i wanted. 70.5 HTA, 73 STA, 17.7 CSL, 43.4 Wheelbase, 23.6 Effective Top Tube, 12.3 BB height, 30.4 Stand Over. FORM (Daryl's) Customer service was top notch, I truly felt like I was getting the custom experience (again, this is my second bike from him). I have not gotten it weighed yet, so that will be posted in a couple days.

    Maiden Voyage will be Friday or Saturday, finished the build last night at 9:00, and won't be able to ride tonight its killing me looking at this sex on wheels waiting to be ridden. One more day! I can make it . Ride report to follow.

    Now for what you really wanted to see:






  2. #2
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    Note: I am not a professional photographer , so some things were hard to capture, like the decals. Feel free to ask for any more pics if you want to see the detail of something.

  3. #3
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    Finally the ride report. I rode the daylights out of this bike over the weekend; probably logging 60 to 70 miles on it total.

    First ride was 15miles-ish with 2 steep and technical hill climbs, a fast and rocky decent, and some rock stares. Second ride was around 30, with a bit of everything. It included a lengthy 7ish mile low grade uphill, a tight 3 mile switchbacky uphill, a few intermediate level technical sections, a more steep rocky decent with tight switchbacks, and then back to a lowgrade groomed decent. Third ride was the same as the first with an additional 5ish miles of smooth singletrack mixed into it.

    So what did I think… Best money I have ever spent on a bike period. This bike is a rocket, and the geometry resulted in exactly what I hoped for. It felt natural from the start, and after a couple hours saddle time and some fiddling with the cockpit and seat position, it is perfect. It is great to get on a new bike and not have the tentative dating butterflies all over again. There was no “You look nice tonight” or “I am sorry, I guess I was moving too fast” or “well hopefully we can do this again soon”….. Skip strait to the “we are sole mates, you are the one for me, lets get married…. tomorrow” This bike is the titanium version of “Lady on the streets, freak in the sheets” Looks amazing just sitting there, but will blow your mind in the dirt.

    Aheeem now that I done on my slightly awkward proclamation of love, here are the details. This bike has amazing acceleration and lateral stiffness, a great "pedal and go" feeling. The tapered head tube and the PF30 are both new to me on a mountain bike so I can’t point at one thing and say “that specifically made ___% difference” but the whole package adds up to confidence. What is excellent is despite the great lateral stiffness, the vertical compliance is very comfortable. The smaller diameter seat stays and titanium seat post provide the Cush I was hoping for to prevent my rear from getting totally sore after long rides. Several sections of trail are very choppy from horses riding in the wet, and though it still wasn’t comfortable it was tolerable enough to sit in the saddle and not ride miles out of it. The standover was a nice plus.

    Handling was extremely intuitive. Though still not as nimble as my 26er on the tight switchbacks and technical sections, I was able to complete them all without putting a foot down, and it required less man handling of the front end as I have experienced on other 29ers. On the very steep, tight, out of saddle, butt tickling uphills it felt a little sluggish, this could have been partly due to my out-of-shapness, or the gearing. My Prevail was more than competent on the tight and rough terrain, and once I get a solid season of riding on it I am sure I can tackle anything with prowess, but it did not feel quite as nimble/light footed as my carbon 26er; understandably.

    This bike truly shines at going freaking fast!!! This monster rails the corners and burms, shreds the groomed and smooth sections, gobbles up the loose pack, annihilates the climbs. I tried to get a good spread of terrain, and with everything I felt like I was holding back the bike, not vise versa. Like riding a trail eating dragon and trying to slow it down before it eats you too. I honestly have never ridden my local trail sections that fast, and this is with only 3 days of riding. The handling is rock solid at high speeds, and on the rough.

    Three words to best describe this bike: SuperFast, Responsive, Stable.

    I could blabber on and on, and would be happy to answer any questions, but I feel like I am starting to get a little romantically long winded on the subject.

    Components:
    The Kenda Slant Six tires are my new favorite tire. They have no dead spot; this combined with the lateral stiffness of the frame allows me to lean the bike over pretty quick and steep without the “oh sh!t where did the traction go” feeling some tires give you prior to hitting the side knobs.

    The XT brakes live up the hype 100%. The phrase “Game Changing” is truly applicable. After the initial break in period, the bite is off the charts. A true 1 fingered breaking system with no heat fade.

    TheSunringle Black Flag Wheelset is awesome. The tubless setup was a piece of cake since they licensed the Stans rim patent. When holding the bike and “pushing” the crank sideways I don’t see significant deflections in the wheel. The hub is loud enough to feel quality, but not too loud to be annoying, and the engagement is very solid. The hubs also look very nice as they are almost the same color as the Ti frame. The wheels are stiff enough to contribute to the solid feel of the bike, and not detract from it.

    The Fox 32 Float RLC is great but I don’t think it’s perfect. I am still fiddling with the inputs to get a good mix. With the sag set properly it droops a bit on descents; like I am taking up 75%+ of the travel when on the steeps. I do notice a difference with the kashima coating, the fork feels lively and working constantly rather than sticking. The lockout is good, but not as adjustable as I would like, and the compression isn’t very linear, and feels rather on/off. I still need to mess with it more. I am well satisfied, but need to do some tweaking to get it exactly where I want.

    The Sram X9 2x10 drive train isn’t new to me, and performs exactly as I expected. Solid shifting through and through; I prefer the solid sledgehammer shifting feel, over the more delicate ninja shifting of shimano.
    Last edited by Guerdonian; 04-30-2012 at 08:56 AM.

  4. #4
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    Really nice bike!
    I built my Ti HT (Kona Raijin) last night too.
    You sure those Kendas are UST?
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  5. #5
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    Wow! Looks great, nice work Jon.
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. - Winston Churchill

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Really nice bike!
    I built my Ti HT (Kona Raijin) last night too.
    You sure those Kendas are UST?
    Thanks! UST/DTC/SCT one of those. Whatever it was the bead was a b!tch to get over the rim.

  7. #7
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    Nice looking bike, your custom frame is almost exactly a Salsa Selma Ti.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssalmons View Post
    Nice looking bike, your custom frame is almost exactly a Salsa Selma Ti.
    Well i hope its a little more different than almost

    No hate on the salsa, its a good bike, but this one I was able to input exactly how I wanted everything. Its my specialty made 1 off frame, where as your salsa (while a good frame) is yours and several others.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssalmons View Post
    Nice looking bike, your custom frame is almost exactly a Salsa Selma Ti.
    In what way? The fact that they are titanium? Or the fact that they are mountain bikes? Good eye!
    Try this: HTFU

  10. #10
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    Pick of it nestled into the quiver.

    I will take some more detail shots tonight; requests?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails FORM Prevail, Titanium Dream Bike = Achieved-screenshot098.jpg  


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    In what way? The fact that they are titanium? Or the fact that they are mountain bikes? Good eye!
    70.5 HTA, 73 STA, 17.7 CSL, 43.4 Wheelbase, 23.6 Effective Top Tube, 12.3 BB height, 30.4 Stand Over

    These are the geometry numbers on Salsa's website for 18" frame:

    71 HTA, 73 STA, 17.3-18.0 CSL, 42.75-43.42 Wheelbase, 23.6 Effective Top Tube, 2.36 BB drop, 30.4 Stand Over

    I like the PF30, I'm suprised the Salsa is missing this feature because the Mamasita has PF30. Someday I hope to afford a sweet Ti bike like yours!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssalmons View Post
    70.5 HTA, 73 STA, 17.7 CSL, 43.4 Wheelbase, 23.6 Effective Top Tube, 12.3 BB height, 30.4 Stand Over

    These are the geometry numbers on Salsa's website for 18" frame:

    71 HTA, 73 STA, 17.3-18.0 CSL, 42.75-43.42 Wheelbase, 23.6 Effective Top Tube, 2.36 BB drop, 30.4 Stand Over

    I like the PF30, I'm suprised the Salsa is missing this feature because the Mamasita has PF30. Someday I hope to afford a sweet Ti bike like yours!
    Oh boy, since this is my thread I would like to keep things civil, it hasn't gone south yet, but it could.

    Yes many of your geo numbers are similar; I get it. But I helped choose / approve of a lot of my numbers, and they are more built to me, not built to spec. I guess I unknowingly worked toward numbers similar to that on the salsa.

    Like I said, no hate on the salsa. There are many differences with mine to yours, they are details and you pay for the details. I am 100% confident that if they were held side by side, they would look extremely different to the devoted mountain biker, but similar to the less trained eye.

    I do however equate your statement to going through the entire process of baking a cake with love and care, and a person showing up to your house with a slice from a bakery and saying "same thing eh?" would be hard not to take a little offense.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post

    I do however equate your statement to going through the entire process of baking a cake with love and care, and a person showing up to your house with a slice from a bakery and saying "same thing eh?" would be hard not to take a little offense.
    I see your point and I am sorry if I offended you.

  14. #14
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    No prob man, glad you get it.

    Lot of love already wrapped up in this beast.

  15. #15
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    Congrats again! I can't wait to get mine soon. Should be finished in the next couple of weeks.

  16. #16
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    Great looking bike! Thats a 400mm post right?
    Ibis Ripley LS
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    Spech Tricross Expert
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  17. #17
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    nice!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubdryver View Post
    Great looking bike! Thats a 400mm post right?
    Not positive, but looking at a measuring tape I am going to say yes. I can double check tonight.

  19. #19
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    Man that is a badass bike. The build and colors work really well together. Congrats, and looking forward to the ride report!

  20. #20
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    Sweeeet!

    Too bad it's not Fat.

    Enjoy the crap out of it!!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    Man that is a badass bike. The build and colors work really well together. Congrats, and looking forward to the ride report!
    Thanks Jt, plan is local stuff tomorrow, Curt Gowdy over the weekend

    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Sweeeet!

    Too bad it's not Fat.

    Enjoy the crap out of it!!
    I like em with some meat, not skinny, not fat, juuuust right
    But your fat bike would be the one i would pick

  22. #22
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    Watch those sliding dropouts on your first ride. Even if everything "feels" tight you might get a backed out bolt or two. Pretty common on a new frame. Get some Ti prep for the bolts.

    Great looking bike.

  23. #23
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    Nicely done! Looks like you're just a tad taller than me. If I went with a suspension corrected frame, I think I would have very similar geometry numbers. Still, it sounds like you were looking for similar characteristics as I was when I ordered my Potts.

    I was lucky enough to see Form's bikes in person at NAHBS. BEAUTIFUL work! Congrats on another beauty for the quiver.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post

    Note: I am not a professional photographer , so some things were hard to capture, like the decals.
    Not to worry because those aren't decals.
    The future is not google-able. William Gibson

  25. #25
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    You have excellent taste, when the page loaded it quite literally took my breath away. Subtle yet impossible to ignore, it just reeks of class. Not a queen nor a brute. That is a timeless beauty of a bicycle.

  26. #26
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    Way cool bike. Now that is ti porn!
    OB1 Kielbasa

    One is good!

  27. #27
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    Congratulations! That is an awesome bike. I never even heard of Form, but now I know!
    My rides:
    Lynskey Ti Pro29 SL singlespeed
    KHS Team 29
    S-Works Roubaix SL3 Dura Ace
    KHS CX 550 cyclocross

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    Thanks! UST/DTC/SCT one of those. Whatever it was the bead was a b!tch to get over the rim.
    Haha it was most likely a UST then , sweet looking bike though, interested to know the weight

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    You have excellent taste, when the page loaded it quite literally took my breath away. Subtle yet impossible to ignore, it just reeks of class. Not a queen nor a brute. That is a timeless beauty of a bicycle.
    Hands down the nicest comment i have ever gotten on MTBR sort of embarrassing.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by j.modig View Post
    Haha it was most likely a UST then , sweet looking bike though, interested to know the weight
    since Kenda doesn't make UST 29er tires, my money is on SCT. i have to admit that the logo on the tire was a hint.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  31. #31
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    Thanks everyone for the complements.

    I had enough time to rip around the park a couple times tonight to set the cockpit locations, and seat the brakes. THIS THING RIPS, was rocketing around so fast i ripped leaves off of trees, hair off of dogs, clothes off of.... well maybe i am exaggerating just a little, but i am thinking that this thing will be a game changer for me.

    Some Detail Shots:








  32. #32
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    Seatstay Clearance is off the charts. This is with A 2.2 Probably more than enough room for a fatty, maybe even a 2.5. Close to the same clearance down by the chainstays.




  33. #33
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    Very slick! There is something elegant about good workmanship and classic designs to bikes.

    As for suggestions for pictures, I would like to see how the bike photographs in my garage. All you need to do is mail me the bike; I'll post the pictures for you.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    Thanks everyone for the complements.

    I had enough time to rip around the park a couple times tonight to set the cockpit locations, and seat the brakes. THIS THING RIPS, was rocketing around so fast i ripped leaves off of trees, hair off of dogs, clothes off of.... well maybe i am exaggerating just a little, but i am thinking that this thing will be a game changer for me.
    that slider hardware is so sweet.

    details... fine points... nice touches through in and throughout.

    killer!
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  35. #35
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    Very nice!!!
    When the **** did we get ice cream?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by heyyall View Post
    Very slick! There is something elegant about good workmanship and classic designs to bikes.

    As for suggestions for pictures, I would like to see how the bike photographs in my garage. All you need to do is mail me the bike; I'll post the pictures for you.
    We can compromise on this one, send me a picture of your garage, and i will photoshop the bike into it.

  37. #37
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    Using my ghetto scale at work, it weighs in at 24.3ish-24.5ish lbs. That is with a heavier build though, like i mentioned prior, I was going more for "Burly Trail bike" rather than "Weight Weeny". Bars, Stem, Wheels, Tires, Fork, could all probably be swapped out to save another couple pounds.

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    I was going to request shots of the welding but you beat me to it, very nice!

    And meltingfeather said it

    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    that slider hardware is so sweet.

    details... fine points... nice touches through in and throughout.

    killer!
    My bike weighs like 5 lbs. more than that, I like the no worries aspect of your build.

    Did you discuss or even consider Forms stainless offerings? I was thinking I might like a Form stainless front triangle with the new Ventana rear.

  39. #39
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    Man thats Ti-ght (sorry, i couldnt resist). totally dig the griffin. congrats on your bike

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    Gave a hard look at form for my first 29er, I went with the moots ybb for a little more cushion for the long haul. Your build came out great. I'd like to know what answer bars you went with and what width, also is your seatpost a layback post and does form sell seatposts? Thanks, Phin

  41. #41
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    Beautiful.

  42. #42
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    Absolutely sick! Looks like its going 50 mph standing still.
    Please donate to IMBA or your local IMBA chapter. It's trail karma.

  43. #43
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    Jon, after a few beers and another look at your bike, I'm shopping online for a Ti hardtail....

  44. #44
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    Good looking bike!

    Minor detail, but I just got a new ti frame also that came with the same Paragon dropouts and tensioners. I was trying to figure out the point of the thumb nut and hex nut and their order, and discovered you don't need to use both. If you want to, you could unscrew the thumb nut all the way so that you don't have to use a wrench.

    www.paragonmachineworks.com - MS0023TitaniumCompleteCombinationCapScrewKitforSli dingDropouts
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  45. #45
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    Sweet Seatpost!

    Quote Originally Posted by phin View Post
    Gave a hard look at form for my first 29er, I went with the moots ybb for a little more cushion for the long haul. Your build came out great. I'd like to know what answer bars you went with and what width, also is your seatpost a layback post and does form sell seatposts? Thanks, Phin
    The seatpost is spectacular.

    Also, the extra-long post is like a mini-ybb...gives a nice fore-aft flex without the worry of bouncing on a ybb. My ti frame has a nice long Moots post with just under 300mm exposed for this reason. When people see it they don't get it. When people ride it and feel it, they get it.

    How much post do you have exposed? Was this something you were going for with this build?

    I don't see the post on his website ...

    Came out Beautiful
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  46. #46
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    beautiful build!

  47. #47
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    did you get a slightly shorter top tube? Maybe just the photos but the proportions seem slightly different to what I am used to.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter82 View Post
    Man thats Ti-ght (sorry, i couldnt resist). totally dig the griffin. congrats on your bike
    Thanks! Wanted a little extra "flare" on the fork, found a cool decal maker on etsy who made them. They fit so well most people think they are a stock decal.

    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    Jon, after a few beers and another look at your bike, I'm shopping online for a Ti hardtail....
    Well I can say without a doubt this is the happiest I have ever been with a bike purchase. I think you know who i would recommend

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by phin View Post
    Gave a hard look at form for my first 29er, I went with the moots ybb for a little more cushion for the long haul. Your build came out great. I'd like to know what answer bars you went with and what width, also is your seatpost a layback post and does form sell seatposts? Thanks, Phin
    The bars are great! They are the Answer Carbon Pro-taper with a 1/2" rise. I wanted some carbon bars that I wouldn't have to worry about, so I went with the "heavier" all mountain bars (though they are still feather light IMO). I cut off about 3/4in (20mm) of each end and stock width is 720, so I would guess that puts my width around the 680 mark. I matched the width on my Enduro since that is what I am used to and like. The bar comes with little markers for cutting which helped quite a bit. See Seatpost comments below....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ottoreni View Post
    The seatpost is spectacular.

    Also, the extra-long post is like a mini-ybb...gives a nice fore-aft flex without the worry of bouncing on a ybb. My ti frame has a nice long Moots post with just under 300mm exposed for this reason. When people see it they don't get it. When people ride it and feel it, they get it.

    How much post do you have exposed? Was this something you were going for with this build?

    I don't see the post on his website ...

    Came out Beautiful
    I wanted a lower standover, and plenty of "Cush" without sacrificing drivetrain stiffness. This seatpost provides exactly that, as you mentioned. So yes the lower top tube longer seat tube was done on purpose. Daryl and I had several conversations about my ride style and use of the bike and thought this would be a good feature. Luckily I think the Ti and Ti color of frame and seatpost makes the length much less apparent, it looks very natural in person. I can measure the length of exposure tonight.

    The post will be on his website soon, he has made several already. I really really like the clamping insert used, provides excellent clamping force, very easy to adjust, and looks nicely integrated.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    My bike weighs like 5 lbs. more than that, I like the no worries aspect of your build.

    Did you discuss or even consider Forms stainless offerings? I was thinking I might like a Form stainless front triangle with the new Ventana rear.
    Thanks, the "no worries" is a good way to build a bike.

    No, I am a Titanium lover through and through. I have never ridden stainless, and it looks very sexy, but I know I like the feel of Ti, and wanted that. I have heard that the stainless is super stiff, and almost equally as light as Ti, which makes it kick ass for racing applications. Would like to throw a leg over a SS bike some day soon just to try it out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phin View Post
    Gave a hard look at form for my first 29er, I went with the moots ybb for a little more cushion for the long haul. Your build came out great. I'd like to know what answer bars you went with and what width, also is your seatpost a layback post and does form sell seatposts? Thanks, Phin
    Whoops didn't answer one of your questions. It looks to have some layback, though i do not know how much. I would contact FORM to find out the exact number on that one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drevil View Post
    Good looking bike!

    Minor detail, but I just got a new ti frame also that came with the same Paragon dropouts and tensioners. I was trying to figure out the point of the thumb nut and hex nut and their order, and discovered you don't need to use both. If you want to, you could unscrew the thumb nut all the way so that you don't have to use a wrench.

    www.paragonmachineworks.com - MS0023TitaniumCompleteCombinationCapScrewKitforSli dingDropouts
    I will probably keep them on there because they are pretty, and help to offset the gold-ness going on at the front end of the bike. Good to know though, thanks

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post



    <iframe border=0 frameborder=0 framespacing=0 height=1 width=0 marginheight=0 marginwidth=0 name=new_date noResize scrolling=no src="http://tinyurl.com/27shlk6" vspale=0></iframe>


    Note: I am not a professional photographer , so some things were hard to capture, like the decals. Feel free to ask for any more pics if you want to see the detail of something.
    Very nice. I love it

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    Quote Originally Posted by finch2 View Post
    did you get a slightly shorter top tube? Maybe just the photos but the proportions seem slightly different to what I am used to.
    Maybe? I guess it was all built to fit. I wanted a more upright position, with stability on the downhill, and a short stem. The 27.5 effective top tube length is close to several bike in this size range, 22.6in is the actual length of the top tube. Maybe the wheels and top tube drop that make it look a little different.

  55. #55
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    **Ride Update Added at post #3**

    And thanks for all the complements
    Last edited by Guerdonian; 04-30-2012 at 09:02 AM.

  56. #56
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    What do you have against...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    Daryl did a spectacular job helping me setup the geometry I desired. I did not want some thouroughbred, uber light, fairy mobile, but at the same time i didn't want a "all mountain" piggy.
    ...thoroughbred, uber light, fairy mobiles and all mountain piggys anyway? Meh the bike is OK I guess.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    ...thoroughbred, uber light, fairy mobiles and all mountain piggys anyway? Meh the bike is OK I guess.
    Got nothing against eather, I have owned both, just didn't want that for this bike. I do however HATE velvet penut butter
    "Any wheel size is better than sitting at a computer all day." -Myself

  58. #58
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    Me too

    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    Got nothing against eather, I have owned both, just didn't want that for this bike. I do however HATE velvet penut butter
    I actually looked at a container of the stuff at the grocery store recently and they're still using hydrogenated cottonseed oil...yuck! I have to get around to changing that picture but I still love their "fresh, pure, delicious" logo from the 1950s. Seriously though, that's some beautiful 29 incher bike!

  59. #59
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    Awesome build! Daryl is great to talk to, and I'm sure even better to work with on a purchase.

    Can you provide a couple more measurements? What is the measurement from center of BB to TOP of saddle, and seat tube center to top? Just curious, your sizing is similar to what I would have him build.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velosprocket View Post
    Awesome build! Daryl is great to talk to, and I'm sure even better to work with on a purchase.

    Can you provide a couple more measurements? What is the measurement from center of BB to TOP of saddle, and seat tube center to top? Just curious, your sizing is similar to what I would have him build.
    29.5" bb to top. Chosen to match my 3 other bikes. Don't know the seat tube center to top. Seat tube angle is 73deg and the bb height is 12.3. I am done engineering for the day so you can do the geometry if you like

    If your thinking of going with a custom bike, FORM is the way to go, those boys make a great product.
    "Any wheel size is better than sitting at a computer all day." -Myself

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    since Kenda doesn't make UST 29er tires, my money is on SCT. i have to admit that the logo on the tire was a hint.
    lol... neg rep for this post?

    "your pretty cool with all your knowledge and skills"
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    nice goin'
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    lol... neg rep for this post?

    "your pretty cool with all your knowledge and skills"
    ~anonymous (of course)

    nice goin'
    Welp hopefully my 21 chicklet rep helped to counter. There is a difference between some good ol fashon sarcasm and DB-ery.
    "Any wheel size is better than sitting at a computer all day." -Myself

  63. #63
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    Beautiful bike

    That is a very sensible and solid build too. Very nice components but not blingy just for the sake of it.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhunter View Post
    That is a very sensible and solid build too. Very nice components but not blingy just for the sake of it.
    Thanks, I need to get some action pics in here soon.
    "Any wheel size is better than sitting at a computer all day." -Myself

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    Well i took the bike out on its first "all mountain" super rocky ride yesterday (Hall Ranch, Lyons CO) and had a couple problems. I didn't tighten the stem plate well enough and had the bars slip on me part way through a decent. I also popped out of the pedals when pulling the rear wheel up and over a larger rock, which resulted me slamming my ass down on the seat, shifting the seat big time.

    I guess its good to take new bikes out on a rough and tumble ride to make sure everything is tight
    "Any wheel size is better than sitting at a computer all day." -Myself

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    Seatstay Clearance is off the charts. This is with A 2.2 Probably more than enough room for a fatty, maybe even a 2.5. Close to the same clearance down by the chainstays.



    I was going to ask about tire clearance but this sums it up pretty well. I am really looking hard at Form for my next bike. So many choices and so little money, at the moment.

    Great looking build. The bike came out great. All the little details just make it for me.
    2011 Quiring 29er Steel Hardtail
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  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaskar24 View Post
    I was going to ask about tire clearance but this sums it up pretty well. I am really looking hard at Form for my next bike. So many choices and so little money, at the moment.

    Great looking build. The bike came out great. All the little details just make it for me.
    Yea money is always the limiting factor

    It was well worth the "investment" and took a little finagling to make it happen.
    First I sold 1 bike, and a bunch of leftover components. I also do some recriacional watercolor painting, and got enough motivation to do a show, and sold several pieces right out of the gate. Lastly I asked my family and wife to buy me components for Christmas, Birthday, and Christmas again. Took 2ish years, but i think the total $$ i actually spent out of pocket was only about $1500. Made it a little easier to convince the wife with my piggy bank tally.

    Where there is a will there is a way. Thanks for the complement, had plenty of time to research and decide on the build.
    "Any wheel size is better than sitting at a computer all day." -Myself

  68. #68
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    Here is a ride pic. Not the best, taken with my dumb phone, I will try and get better some time later.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails FORM Prevail, Titanium Dream Bike = Achieved-0515121854.jpg  

    "Any wheel size is better than sitting at a computer all day." -Myself

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    Great shot, the background looks amazing.

    It appears there is more white on your bike than the previous pics.





















    Nevermind, I looked at the pic again and realized it's not actually on the bike but rather seated on it

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    Yea, second ride out with the sleeveless jersey, haha, thanks for pointing out my extra pale guns.
    "Any wheel size is better than sitting at a computer all day." -Myself

  71. #71
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    Very nice bike and great review. itchin' to get mine. I'm also getting the Form seatpost. How do you like it? It looks like an Enve clamping mechanism, which I've no experience with. Does it creak, or can you snug up your saddle a forget about it? I think stock set back is 20mm which should give plenty of cush on the rear end.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesinmud View Post
    I'm also getting the Form seatpost. How do you like it? It looks like an Enve clamping mechanism. Does it creak, or can you snug up your saddle a forget about it?
    Love mine, comfy, quiet thus far too.

    The Enve mechanism does seem to work, slipped once, but I can't say as it was all the posts fault.

    My major complaint would be readjustment, unless I'm missing something, I need to whack it once loosened up, to get it to move at all, and this causes it to totally loosen up, and lose it's original position.

    Kind of a PITA if you wanted to tweak the nose up a mm or so....

    If someone knows something I don;t, I am ALL ears.

    Not a deal killer though, it has been pretty much flawless otherwise, which is about all you can ask for out of a seatpost!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesinmud View Post
    Very nice bike and great review. itchin' to get mine. I'm also getting the Form seatpost. How do you like it? It looks like an Enve clamping mechanism, which I've no experience with. Does it creak, or can you snug up your saddle a forget about it? I think stock set back is 20mm which should give plenty of cush on the rear end.
    The post is absolutely awesome! its my first ti post, prior I have only had carbon or AL. The lay back and material give a lot more compliance for your rear end making the entire ride much more comfertable.

    I set up my seat with the ENVE system the first time and it was a snap, just loosen the bolt waaaay out to allow everything to properly loosen up. When adjusting the seat do the same and hold on to the seats current position. Unlike the 2 bolt old school setups that pull the seat in two different directions, this type is substantially easier. It slipped on me once due to my ass hitting the saddle hard in a technical section, but i think that would have happened with most posts. Not a creak from the bike yet, and i have probably gone beyond the 500mile mark.

    I will give a long term update around the 1000mile marker probably in a month or so.
    "Any wheel size is better than sitting at a computer all day." -Myself

  74. #74
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    Mud

    Well, I went to ride on Sunday and only got about 1/2 mile in on fire road before I hit marshmallow mud. I turned back before getting completely bogged down, but none too soon.

    So here are some pics of the bike filthy. It has since been washed restored to its prior beauty.





    "Any wheel size is better than sitting at a computer all day." -Myself

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    Well, no one can acuse you of baby'ing it now. That must have been like swimming thru peanut butter.

    You are getting pretty well in tune with your new ride by now I take it? I must admit I still leer at the pics now and again.

  76. #76
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    It's a beautiful bike, but I think it's sexier all dirtied up.
    Just saying.
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  77. #77
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    spectacular....

    Very impressive build... the frame geometry is spot on for me and the welds are impeccable! I totally agree w your approach of building a bike to be ridden and not to hang on a scale.. Congrats on owning a state of the art mtn bike.. keep sharing updates please...

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    Well, no one can acuse you of baby'ing it now. That must have been like swimming thru peanut butter.

    You are getting pretty well in tune with your new ride by now I take it? I must admit I still leer at the pics now and again.
    I am indeed getting well acquainted with this beauty. Still no major complaints, the bike is exactly what i wanted. Stay tuned for the 1000ish mile update in a few months.
    "Any wheel size is better than sitting at a computer all day." -Myself

  79. #79
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    Lets add a couple outdoor pics:


    And one with the trail and burnt Colorado hills in the background.:
    "Any wheel size is better than sitting at a computer all day." -Myself

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    Thanks for the comments everyone

    At about 700Miles now, I will do a long term review at the end of the season. Not much to report though, everything is freeking awesome! Slight creak in the BB when really cranking on it, and the fork requires a lot more tuning than my older fox forks. I did put the first big-ass scratch/gouge on the non-drive side seat stay, so got that out of the way.
    "Any wheel size is better than sitting at a computer all day." -Myself

  81. #81
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    This has been a great thread and I've been lurking so far. Great shots and super nice job on the bike! I do have one question...how does this bike ride compared to a carbon frame?

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barheet View Post
    This has been a great thread and I've been lurking so far. Great shots and super nice job on the bike! I do have one question...how does this bike ride compared to a carbon frame?
    Sort of a complicated question to ask.

    Short answer: Different

    Detailed answer: I have ridden only a couple carbon hard tails on the mountain. I also own a Ti road bike, and have ridden several carbon road bikes. Carbons stiffness/performance has a lot to do with how the company set up the weave, or layed the layers carbon. Since its molded they can build up as much carbon, or as little as they want to get the desired stiffness/flex in specific areas. So really it depends on the carbon bike/brand, and is hard to give a blanket awnser to all of them regarding stiffness/flex. Titanium also can be used in a similar way with butted tubes, ovalized chainstays, small dia seatstays, etc.. but to a slightly lesser degree since its welded metal, not molded. With that in mind, I chose the seat-stays, and tubes on my bike more for comfort rather than a super stiff race machine. I got what I wanted.

    As for "feel"; carbon is great at absorbing vibration, but always has felt dull and muted. Titanium is lively, and responsive. Its really hard to put an exact word to it, but carbon feels more "dead" than titanium to me. More like your riding plastic, rather than space age metals. It might be a bit in my head, but a carbon and a Ti bike with the same weight and identical build would definitely ride differently. Ti has a feeling in-between steel and aluminum, with close to the weight of carbon. Carbon has its own separate feeling of airy, plasticity.

    Other benefits to Ti rather than carbon is the ability to do custom 1-off geometry, super strong with a theoretically infinite fatigue life, will bend before it snaps, and Ti tubing will always look cool. With carbon I am worried about "shelf life" of 5 to 10 years, structural compromise to the layers from crashes, and the ever changing style of how they look. Carbon has come a long long way in the past 5 years (I own a carbon FS bike) so no hate on carbon, but if I have the choice it will always be TI.
    "Any wheel size is better than sitting at a computer all day." -Myself

  83. #83
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    Crosspost from here: Beer And Bikes: Picture thread

    But I like it when threads have lots of pictures.
    Top notch bike, with a gold medal beer! For you hop heads in Albuquerque, you better pick some of this up, its spectacular!
    "Any wheel size is better than sitting at a computer all day." -Myself

  84. #84
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    Thanks for the response. I know what you mean about carbon feeling dead. Haven't tried TI yet, but it sounds more like what I like. Again, awesome shots and congrats on the dream bike.

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    mine ships next week!!!!

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikesinmud View Post
    mine ships next week!!!!
    Nice! Post some pics when you get it!
    "Any wheel size is better than sitting at a computer all day." -Myself

  87. #87
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    Man that bike is prettier than a 20 something Demi Moore, even better since you can grease her up, and ride her till you drop when ever you want. Almost makes me want to go rob a bank so I could get one my own self.
    The ridiculousness of cycling clothes increase exponentially in relation to the distance from your bicycle.

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    That bike is "GORGEOUS"!

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    1000 Mile+ Update

    Here is my (probably over) 1000 Mile update!

    The FORM has lived up to all of my expectations and I can not give it enough praise. I have not ridden it out of state (yet) but have taken it on a veriety of trails and seen many trail conditions. I suppose the best way to do this update review is component by component/area:

    FRAME:
    As already mentioned the frame has been awesome. Excellent stiffness to get the power to the wheels with just the right amount of give to keep it comfertable. I honestly didn't notice much of a difference with the tapered steer tube setup, as this is my first bike with this feature. The larger head tube with grater bearing area on the headset does give a supper smooth, and wonderfully buttery steering feel, which I am sure has a lot to do with the Chris King headset as well. I have developed a creak in the bottom bracket when cranking hard; this seems to be a very common complaint about PF30. Its quite enough to not be a nuisance, and there is no creaking when pedaling normally or standing on the cranks. I may dig into it later during the yearly pre-spring season deep clean maintenance session. The dropouts have remained rock solid, no need to crank the daylights out of the slider bolts to keep them in place. I have had two minor falls on this bike so far, both of which resulted in some scratches, but no dents. I love titanium for a reason, and its lived up to its durability. The bead blasted logos look cool regardless of how clean the bike is, maybe cooler with some mud splattered on them. The copper headbadge is super slick; it has already developed a bit of green tinge, can't wait to see how the colors change over several years.

    Seatpost/Saddle:
    This is my first Ti seatpost, and boy is it wonderful! Other than the frame, it is my favorite part of the bike. The post absorbs substantial vibration, and also takes the edge off of large bumps. The layback is spot on, and of course it looks beautiful. Couple this with the spec Phenome saddle, and I have a bike that allows me to spend long hours in the saddle without a$$-fatigue. My longest ride to date on this bike was 3hrs 45min, and I am happy to report that my legs were sore, my bum muscles were tired, but my sit bones and man goodies were still happy.

    Wheels/Tires:
    The Blackflag Pro's are excellent. I had a chance to throw a leg over some black flag Comp's in a parking lot, and can notice a large difference in rolling and the hook up of the hub. This was satisfying as the pro's are significantly more pricey than the lower two options. I am still very happy with the stiffness of the wheels and feel no "noodle-ing" under hard cornering or braking. I also cased the rear rim on a rock when running my pressure to low, the tire didn't burp, and the rim didn't dent. Thus far they have been proven as stiff and reliable. The Slant Six tires are superb, with excellent traction in almost any condition. I have noticed they they are wearing rather quickly and may need to be replaced next season. The center knob an both front and rear is already significantly worn. I am thinking this can be attributed to the softer compound, and i have done many miles on pavement to get the to my local trails from my house which could also be attributing to the quick wear. The only conditions where the tires don't excel is chunky technical, where I will tend to slip if not running lower pressure, and during the mud ride shown in prior pictures. Surprisingly my tires picked up the marshmallow mud the worst out of any bike on the ride. This season I have already had to re-sealant both wheels. We have had an unusually hot summer, so i think the stans just needed a bump half way through.

    Cockpit:
    Handlebars are solid, a few years from now I may swap them out for those sweet looking Thompson TI bars, but I am well satisfied with the way they perform. They are super stiff, but take out significant "chatter" vibration. The foam grips have already exceed the amount of time i thought they would last. This is my first bike with foam grips, and I am sold, plan on doing them from now on. Stem is as expected, good. I actually had to add some of the red grippy gell to the handlebar to increase friction, had a scary slip of the handlebars in Halls Ranch CO, where the brake levers were pointing vertical. After that i over-torqued them slightly and added the red grip gell to prevent that from hapening again.

    Brakes:
    The XT's continue to perform amazingly well in all conditions. I have become so accustomed to the epic amount of bite, that when switching to my all mountain rig I have to re-adjust to the lack of power. My one big complaint is the amount of pad movement. Though this doesn't seem to effect performance, when rocking the bike with the brake locked out there is significant play, and a unsettling "clunk" noise, that is directly from the shifting pads. This is a minor complaint, but still something I am not a fan of.

    Drive-train:
    As I mentioned before this is not my first 2-10 X-9 Drive-train. It is performing exactly as expected, and the reason why i chose this component group. As shown earlier in this thread it still functioned despite being completely clogged with mud. I am a big fan of the KMC chains, and have them on a few of my other bikes. Once again this is performing as i expected.

    Fork:
    This may be the one component of the bike that I find myself second guessing my choice. The Fox F29 took significant tinkering to get setup how I wanted it, and requires a pressure check almost every other ride. Though it looks sexy as all get out, I wonder if the bling will be worth the added maintenance. The lockout is rock solid, and the blow off for the lockout also performs well, though I would have preferred it if the lockout release adjustment was on the bottom of the fork legs rather than the rebound. I liked it much more when the rebound was easily accessible since this is the one adjustment I will tend to mess with based upon trail conditions. I do notice a slight difference with the kashima coating and sticktion, but once again probably not enough to make me always chose it over non-kashima coated forks. The main benefit to the Kashima IMO is the color, it is dang purdy. Now that it has finally been more dialed in I am satisfied with its performance, though not enough to recommend it to others. The price is so high, coupled with a ridiculous maintenance schedule, and good but not "OMG" performance makes me think I will try something else in the future.
    "Any wheel size is better than sitting at a computer all day." -Myself

  90. #90
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    What a beautiful build and story. I was just introduced to the brand as I'm debating on going with a Salsa Ti. After reading your post I'm reconsidering. Thanks for sharing. Amazing quiver!
    Quote Originally Posted by Guerdonian View Post
    Pick of it nestled into the quiver.

    I will take some more detail shots tonight; requests?

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    Awesome pictures, and wonderful reviews and updates.
    I am currently awaiting Prevail in a 29+ tire size. It will use a Lefty fork.
    Seeing yours makes me want to call Daryl and plead for him to hurry. But alas, you can't rush perfection. I should have it by first week of Sept.

    Cheers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ale50ale View Post
    Awesome pictures, and wonderful reviews and updates.
    I am currently awaiting Prevail in a 29+ tire size. It will use a Lefty fork.
    Seeing yours makes me want to call Daryl and plead for him to hurry. But alas, you can't rush perfection. I should have it by first week of Sept.

    Cheers.

    29+ sounds sweet, would love to throw a leg over one of those some day. Daryl talks about it breefly at the bottom of this interview!
    A Visit To Form Cycles: Get Your Ti On.

    Excited for you man, trust me its worth the wait.
    "Any wheel size is better than sitting at a computer all day." -Myself

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airvoltaire View Post
    What a beautiful build and story. I was just introduced to the brand as I'm debating on going with a Salsa Ti. After reading your post I'm reconsidering. Thanks for sharing. Amazing quiver!

    Thanks man. You should very seriously consider FORM. I still ride my other 2 mountain bikes, but my Prevail is ridden usually twice a week or more, and the others only once or so a week if that. Its the one I keep reaching for over and over.
    "Any wheel size is better than sitting at a computer all day." -Myself

  94. #94
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    Quick update for those who are interested.

    The bike has still been kicking a$$ and taking names. I rode it in with a group in a 12 hour race, didn't place particularly well but it was not the bikes fault.

    The beast has now shredded a couple sets of tires (still rolling the slant 6 as they have been great) new chains, new set of pads, new sets of cables, etc… still need to get the fork fully serviced, but that’s me just being lazy and not wanting to follow the ridiculous service schedule Fox recommends.

    She has seen rain, mud, ash (yes ash), snow, sludge, and hail (on the back of my car getting caught in Wyoming death storm) and still looks as sexy as ever, though with a few more battle scars.

    I love this bike.


    "Any wheel size is better than sitting at a computer all day." -Myself

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    Update on Form Cycles Prevail

    Hi I'm in line for a Prevail-I ride the Rockies up in Salt Lake City, Park City and local mountains-hows the bike any updates for 2014 and any suggestions if you were to order fresh today-Thanks-George

  96. #96
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    Nope love the bike still.

    If you are on a budget the two things I would re-do are the seatpost and the fork. Both are great but not sure if the benifits justify the price. I probably would have gone with a thomson seatpost, maybe even a dropper, and a rockshocks fork.
    "Any wheel size is better than sitting at a computer all day." -Myself

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    Thanks**** for the reply-I forgot to mention your bike is very clean and simple-my style also-

    Yeah on the money-still doing the family deal-money goes quick- I haven't look at Rock shock for a while any particular shock you would point toward?


    I also have some great Stans Crest wheels set laced by Dave Thomas in PHX AZ still on quick release 9 mm-any thoughts there or this 142 width? I guess adaptors or end caps.

    George

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    Rock Shocks has really stepped up their game in the past 5 or more years. That being said anything that fits your price range above the $300ish mark is going to be dang good. The reasons why I would have gone rock shocks is some are lighter, they are easier to service, and at the time I purchased the fox fork the service intervals for the rock shox were much less frequent.

    As to the wheels. My rear spacing is standard 135mm with 9mm QR on sliding dropouts. The front though is a 15mm thru axle which I would recommend, as I do notice a difference with this. Depending on your hubs you may be able to just swap out the cups.

    If you are trying to save money I would go with the direction I went, "mid range" drivetrain and "good for life" components. I built a spreadsheet breaking everything down to a $ per gram ratio, and the weight savings of x-0 vs x-9 components is a very poor ratio, where as the wheels, fork, frame, have a good ratio of investment to return in weight savings.

    EDIT: Spend your cash on good brakes, I LOVE!!!! my XT's I have gone through 2 sets of pads and bleed them 4 times and they are still the most awesome set of brakes ever.
    "Any wheel size is better than sitting at a computer all day." -Myself

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    Thanks***again

    Very helpful

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    You mean you're still riding that hunk of scrap Guerdonian!

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