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  1. #126
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    I guess what I really wanted to know was an in-depth explanation on how the design works on Fabien Barel's floating mount brake, which was designed to induce more brake squat in a controlled manner. I recall a comment saying the brake squat in the rear was intended to balance the bike out with fork dive in consideration. I don't really want to think that is bullcrap. Actually, nevermind, that belongs in another thread.
    Well for starters that pic of the Kona above does not show how Fabien ran his rear brake. The Stab has 2 mount holes on the frame and in that pic the floater is mounted to the upper hole, with the lower hole by the BB.

    Mounting in the upper hole (as above) gives more neutral braking than mounting to the swingarm itself, as the caliper mount is basically held parallel to the frame throughout the suspension travel, neutrailising any of the rotational force imparted on the caliper when you pull the brake.

    The lower hole gives a whole different feel. havnt got time to explain fully just now but ill try and put together some diagrams later. Just to say tho, its VERY hard to ride a bike like this, the extreme squat of this set-up means the rear brake is much less effective (as soon as it gets grip the wheel shoots through its travel, meaning it unwieghts a little and gets less grip!). This set-up is for serious recers only, who can use it to help them squish right into berms by dragging the rear brake on the way in, pre-compressing the rear suspension so they can really pump though the corner and fire out the other side. Not a set-up for the feint harted, one panic brake and you lose all your rear travel, not fun when lending a drop or hitting a rock garden (personal experience!!!)

    Rich.

  2. #127
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    Any updates by people riding these frames? Im really curious about the longevity non-bearing pivots. How are they holding up? And is the rear triangle stiff enough with just a QR?

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    I realized that soon enough when I had people* raising the bullcrap flag and I bothered to look it up, as it was a simple enough mistake. *specifically car_nut, as craigsj seems to like to ridicule others and argue over semantics more than science. Thanks for the extra explanations though.
    I ridicule others who pretend to understand science while passing themselves off as experts. People like you, Varaxis. The more people are informed of your pretense the more they will ignore what you have to say. It's a public service. I certainly don't care whether you learn anything about brake jack since you aren't here to learn in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    I guess what I really wanted to know was an in-depth explanation on how the design works on Fabien Barel's floating mount brake, which was designed to induce more brake squat in a controlled manner. I recall a comment saying the brake squat in the rear was intended to balance the bike out with fork dive in consideration. I don't really want to think that is bullcrap. Actually, nevermind, that belongs in another thread.
    Are you saying you haven't read Foale Chapter 9 or simply that you don't understand it? Hard to believe considering you pretended to have read it in this thread. Understanding these things takes a little more effort than just throwing a few vocabulary words around and then complaining that others argue your "semantics".

  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    Does anyone else sense something fundamentally wrong with such a chainstay mounted rear disc caliper on a FS bike? From an observational point of view, that's asking for brake jack, since the caliper is clamping the rotor as it's making a downward motion, which would create a force that would also drive the swingarm downward, stiffening the suspension under braking. The typical caliper location creates a force that is up-forward (a little pro brake-squat) at sag and less up and more forward as you get deeper in travel (more brake neutral).
    My Felt Compulsion had it there and I didn't feel any brake jack
    13 Lenz Lunchbox punkass

  5. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    My Felt Compulsion had it there and I didn't feel any brake jack
    As was said in post #3, this bike looks similar to the Scott Spark 29. Here's an analysis of the Scott. Run it through your favorite translator as necessary.

    You can see that there isn't brake jack.

  6. #131
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    this rame looks sic and at 26.5 is pretty light but sayin a spearfish is heavier is kinda silly mines built up at 26.3 on a park tools scale. that being said i dig the look of this rig and would have fun building one up in gloss 12k.Im always lookin for a new build project

  7. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by two-one View Post
    I got sick of turning my laptop upside down:



    Looks nice... who's next?
    Really diggin' the build, looks great!
    #twerkteam #younggohards #JRA
    Fixed gears aint broke // All mountain all the time

  8. #133
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    As far as I'm concerned it's not flexy

    Once begot the upper pivot tightened up the frame is less flexy with a rare QR than my Spider with a 10mm RWS. I think it's a pretty solid frame.

    My reservations would be about the pivots where there are bushings rather than bearings. That's a longevity issue, which won't be answered until many miles are put on the frame.

    The frame really looks like a Fisher Superfly 100. Obviously not as light. If the price cam down $100 it would be a deal, where it stands now at about $1050 delivered with an RT-3 it's the lightest alternative, with more travel than a sprearfish. The quality of the carbon is great.

  9. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbwallace View Post
    Once begot the upper pivot tightened up the frame is less flexy with a rare QR than my Spider with a 10mm RWS. I think it's a pretty solid frame.

    My reservations would be about the pivots where there are bushings rather than bearings. That's a longevity issue, which won't be answered until many miles are put on the frame.
    So there were DU bushings on the smaller pivots? Not just bare steel bolt-on-carbon action?
    Quote Originally Posted by nbwallace View Post
    The frame really looks like a Fisher Superfly 100. Obviously not as light. If the price cam down $100 it would be a deal, where it stands now at about $1050 delivered with an RT-3 it's the lightest alternative, with more travel than a sprearfish. The quality of the carbon is great.
    I'd consider giving the technical drawing to Push, to let them tune a nice Monarch RT3 for me, and building it up with that...

  10. #135
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    Not really bushings

    The non-bearing pivots have small holy into a nut which has a built in sleeve, which acts like a bushing, but it's not really a bushing in that it doesn't rotate independently of the bolt. I requested some spares with my road frame. When I get them, I'll shoot some pics.

    I would say the rt-3 high tune, works pretty well. Clearly a custom tune would be an improvement. If Push can come up with a custom tune, that would be awesome.

  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbwallace View Post
    The non-bearing pivots have small holy into a nut which has a built in sleeve, which acts like a bushing, but it's not really a bushing in that it doesn't rotate independently of the bolt. I requested some spares with my road frame. When I get them, I'll shoot some pics.

    I would say the rt-3 high tune, works pretty well. Clearly a custom tune would be an improvement. If Push can come up with a custom tune, that would be awesome.
    Hm, it's those non-bearing pivots that's holding me off... especially the swing link's, as it makes a pretty big rotation. They dont even contain any delrin/teflon composite bushings? Just metal-on-metal?

    Push should be able to make a nice tune based on the leverage-graph posted earlier, right?

  12. #137
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    It's really metal screw on carbon

    Those non-bearing pivots are really non-threaded metal on carbon. There's no teflon, also when the frame arrived no grease, which made the suspension impossible to cycle, even without a shock installed.

  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbwallace View Post
    Those non-bearing pivots are really non-threaded metal on carbon.


    I hope that bike is a garage queen, because it isn't going to last long otherwise. Seriously. Take that thing to a machinist and have them fit some bushings and custom hardware.

  14. #139
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    The frame has finally arrived!! Unfortunately I had to give up the matte finish. I would have to wait a few weeks. The frame was ordered in October......Hongfu

    @nbwallace: can you show me what you used to attach the shock to the frame?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Dual Suspension Chinese Carbon  29er-1.jpg  

    Dual Suspension Chinese Carbon  29er-2.jpg  


  15. #140
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    Did you find that your pivots were greased when the frame arrived?

    Have you noticed if you can cycle the pivots manually? When our frame first arrived I couldn't until I lubed all the pivots.

    It takes some doing to get the rear derailleur dialed in since at least with the xt e-mount we used the cable clamping bolt was not readily accessible. I also had to adjust the angle of the front der using a couple of washers under the frame mount.

    To mount the shock you need the rockshox m8x22.2mm kits for both the upper and lower mounts:

    Universal Cycles -- Rock Shox Monarch/Vivid/Ario 3.2 Mount Kits

    I used m8x40mm bolts for both the mounts. For the upper mount I used a m8 lock nut and for the lower mount nut I MacGyvered something together using a brass threaded insert as shown in the attached image:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Dual Suspension Chinese Carbon  29er-photo.jpg  

    Last edited by nbwallace; 01-19-2012 at 05:10 PM.

  16. #141
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    Thanks nbwallace, very ingenious, I could not think of anything for the lower mount nut.
    About pivots, I also noticed some clutch in motion, what kind of lube did you use?

  17. #142
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    A bit of Polylube

    Quote Originally Posted by LoAl View Post
    Thanks nbwallace, very ingenious, I could not think of anything for the lower mount nut.
    About pivots, I also noticed some clutch in motion, what kind of lube did you use?
    I used polylube, but I'd guess any waterproof or synthetic grease would be fine.

    For the part I showed in the photo above I started with these:

    Amazon.com: E-Z LOK Threaded Insert For Hard Wood, M8-1.25 Int Thread - Brass (Pack of 10): Industrial & Scientific

    I threaded one onto an M8 bolt and put the bolt in a drill chuck (I used an air drill) I spun it up and filed off the outer threads. I had to cut it off a bit too. I'm rather proud of myself for coming up with the idea of a makeshift lathe.

    I found a pre-made fitting online in titanium somewhere. If someone knows of a bike with an 8mm lower link, one could probably order the through bolts for that setup.

  18. #143
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    Anybody else order one of these frames? Any updates from those that did? Do any of the vendors offer a kit for the shock mounts?

    The discussions on the pivots and the shock hardware keep pushing me away from this frame, but then the prices on similar branded frames bring me back to it. That along with there's limited options for 135mm rear and standard bottom bracket since most vendors are moving on from that.

  19. #144
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    Lack of shock kit is a major turnoff.

  20. #145
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    I'm waiting for the frame. We'll see how I make do with the shock mount

  21. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiro View Post
    I'm waiting for the frame. We'll see how I make do with the shock mount
    Could you make some pictures of the (disassembled) suspension pivots if possible? I'd like to know if there is any way to put a delrin bushing in there.

  22. #147
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    Hi guys, I have one of these also, im wondering what shocks your all using on yours?
    I'm just about to order my replacement as I had a 190mm i2i on my Gary Fisher and its much bigger, it looks like it should be 184mm so im surprised at the start of the thread you put on a 165mm ???

    Thanks

  23. #148
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    Ok i couldnt see the geometry diagram on page 1, cheers anyway chaps.

  24. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by eliflap View Post
    165mm eye to eye

    1950 g the weight in 17,5"

    rear skewer 135mm not 142 , as you can see on picture ( normal mtb )
    Hrmm...this is one high maintenance frameset.

  25. #150
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    WTF? After all I contributed to this thread I get neg rep for a "douchy comment".

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