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  1. #1
    TRACKDADDY
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    Which disc brakes would you chose Juciy 7's or Mono Mini's??...

    I am working on building a new 29er project. My question to the forum is which brakes do I keep and which get sold??

    I have a pair of 2005 Avid Juicy 7's (almost brand new) and a pair of Hope Mono Mini's (used, but not by me) and I am not sure which pair I should keep and use for the project and which pair will get sold with my Kona Explosif to help pay for the 29er "project" (think Ti Black Sheep Highlight). Any suggestions from people's experience or preference??

    The Juicy's are 185mm front and 160mm rear and the Mono Mini's are both 160mm.

    Also, is there an adapter to allow a 160mm front Hope Mono Mini caliper to be used with a 180mm rotor, or do I need a whole new caliper?? The Hope web site is a little sparse for details on spare parts and adapters etc..

    I appologize if this is not the right spot to post this topic in the forum but I didn't see a brake related topic thread....
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  2. #2
    jms
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    Mono Mini's for me

    I've had the greatest success with Mono Mini's and Kool-Stop pads. They've been reliable, drag free, and quiet. I believe they're a bit lighter than Juicy 7's too. To my knowledge, you'll need a different caliper to run a 180 Mono Mini up front. Good luck with your project.

  3. #3
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    i have mini's and they have been pretty much flawless for a year, except for a sticking piston in the rear once. i have friends that have the avids and they love them as well. dont think you can go wrong with either one.

  4. #4
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    Funny. I've ridden with plenty of folks using Hopes, which they've send to be noisy.

    I've never used 'em.

    But, we've used and abused the 7's for thousands problem free miles. They only get noisy when super hot.

    My Shimano's however are silent all the time, and are about 30g lighter than the 7's..and equally as reliable.

    My lbs folks LOVE the Shimano brakes....I'm glad I listened.

  5. #5
    Law
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    I have had both recently. I sold the Avid 7's and kept the Mono Mini's.

    Avids:
    good stopping power, but noisy. damn they were loud at times. A little heavier than the Mono's although that was not a big concern. About the same stopping power as the Hopes really. On a several mile long downhill run, they gave out on me and wouldn't stop. they just went to mush. But the Hopes did the same to me on the same downhill run last week end. On both the avids and the Hopes it was only the front that went to mush. And on both, once the brakes cooled down, they stopped just fine. That run dropped about 2200-2300 feet of elevation over those several miles, so I am not surprised. I could still stop using both brakes, just not nearly as fast.

    Mono Minis:
    Love the CNC look. Love the stopping power 99% of the time, see above for the only time that they let me down. Basically, they are my favorite brake out there. I have tried just about everything but the Marta's and these are what I like.

  6. #6
    Law
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    Funny. I've ridden with plenty of folks using Hopes, which they've send to be noisy.

    I've never used 'em.

    But, we've used and abused the 7's for thousands problem free miles. They only get noisy when super hot.

    My Shimano's however are silent all the time, and are about 30g lighter than the 7's..and equally as reliable.

    My lbs folks LOVE the Shimano brakes....I'm glad I listened.
    Shimanos are a great bang for the buck certainly. I wish the XTR had some more power though. I think both the Hopes and Avids stopped better than the XTR set up I had. I had a deore hydro set-up a couple of years ago that stopped better than any XC disc brake I have tried and they were dirt-cheap--heavy but reliable and cheap.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law
    Shimanos are a great bang for the buck certainly. I wish the XTR had some more power though. I think both the Hopes and Avids stopped better than the XTR set up I had. I had a deore hydro set-up a couple of years ago that stopped better than any XC disc brake I have tried and they were dirt-cheap--heavy but reliable and cheap.
    Wow...Madre and I have never had mush with the 2 sets of Juicy's we have....weird...

    What size rotors are you running? Maybe you are too fat for them?

    Have you ridden any of Shimano's stuff?

  8. #8
    The Duuude, man...
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    Juicy vs Mini's?

    Camaro vs Porshe....

  9. #9
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    My Shimano's are the Saints. 30g lighter than my 7's and same if not more power.
    I'm pretty sure Saints are just the XT's painted.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncj01
    Juicy vs Mini's?

    Camaro vs Porshe....
    Ya......I'll take the 220mph Camaro that smoked all the Euro exotics.

    Edit: Oh ya, and the Avids.
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  11. #11
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    Thanks to everyone that gave up some advice. I am tempted to keep the Mono's but I still have not had the question answered yet, "Also, is there an adapter to allow a 160mm front Hope Mono Mini caliper to be used with a 180mm rotor, or do I need a whole new caliper?? The Hope web site is a little sparse for details on spare parts and adapters etc.."

    I guess this will be the deciding factor....
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon448
    Thanks to everyone that gave up some advice. I am tempted to keep the Mono's but I still have not had the question answered yet, "Also, is there an adapter to allow a 160mm front Hope Mono Mini caliper to be used with a 180mm rotor, or do I need a whole new caliper?? The Hope web site is a little sparse for details on spare parts and adapters etc.."

    I guess this will be the deciding factor....
    Fistly, there is a brake forum just down the page. Second, Where is the brake going, what kind of mount and do you have the new post mount Hope brakes or the older IS mount. If it's the IS to IS you just use the Hope +20 IS adapter, P/N HBIS20. They also have + 20 for 74mm post mount, just look on the NET.
    "Do not touch the trim"

  13. #13
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    I too was in your boat - 7s vs Minis for the NEW 29er.

    I weigh 185lbs and race XC and enjoy riding everywhere from Michigan [read few huge downhills], east coast/New Zealand [read wet] and Sierra Nevadas/Rockies [read big downhills]...and either brake will get the job done [thats what is truely important anyway] - however here are my more detailed HOs.

    fresh off Juicy 7s [160 rotors]....no problems other than the noise on long steepish downhills....I snaped the post off the center of the piston with VERY little pressure as I removed the pads once....100 rides - no other issues.

    THE MINIs work as well as the 7s and squak a bit as well on longer DHs. They seem to modulate better than the 7s - for me anyway. THE MINIS ARE FREAKING BEAUTIFUL and the CNC work really tickles my fancy.....only 6 rides so far.....can't stop looking at them, I must have a problem. ;>)

    Just my HOs.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    Funny. I've ridden with plenty of folks using Hopes, which they've send to be noisy.

    I've never used 'em.

    But, we've used and abused the 7's for thousands problem free miles. They only get noisy when super hot.

    My Shimano's however are silent all the time, and are about 30g lighter than the 7's..and equally as reliable.

    My lbs folks LOVE the Shimano brakes....I'm glad I listened.
    Saints....................
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  15. #15
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    I tried both the Hope Mono Minis and the Juicy 7's. I kept the Juicys. The Hope were just too noisy and they performed like crap on LONG downhills. But I will say that they look a lot cooler than the Avids
    Vecsus

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  16. #16
    The Duuude, man...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    Ya......I'll take the 220mph Camaro that smoked all the Euro exotics.

    Edit: Oh ya, and the Avids.
    You made my point EXACTLY.

    While the Camaro is just a chevy, that doesn't mean it won't take the Porshe in a race (sometimes).....but the Porshe is a fine peice of engineering....

    Same for the on-topic items.
    FS: Everything

  17. #17
    Law
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    Wow...Madre and I have never had mush with the 2 sets of Juicy's we have....weird...

    What size rotors are you running? Maybe you are too fat for them?

    Have you ridden any of Shimano's stuff?
    Fat? That was a harsh question, but maybe a little. 215-220 last year on Avids 6inch rotors, less than 200 right now on Hopes. I don't think that either weight is particularly horrible. This year's weight feels much better though.

    As I wrote above I have ridden XTR's which stopped always the same but with less power than I like. Also as I said, it was down a looooonnnnnggg downhill run that dropped well over 2000 feet without much of a flat to give the brakes of a breather. Freaking awesome. I have also ridden the old deores, and they were always great, although I wasn't pushing it as much back then (I was about 240 when I had the Deores).

    I don't think you can compare the riding performance of a pair of brakes with your wife on them to me. But you are a taller guy who must weigh something close to my weight, so I don't know what to tell ya with that-- my avids only faded once.

  18. #18
    Law
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    I have read that people have lots of squeal with hopes. I rarely hear any noise at all, weird. Mine are about 9 months old with about 800 miles on them. I now am riding on Kool stop pads (b/c that is what speedgoat.com recommended to me as a replacement), which I find have better modulation--I would swear that they are a soft pad material though, so I think they may wear out sooner than the stock pads.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncj01
    You made my point EXACTLY.

    While the Camaro is just a chevy, that doesn't mean it won't take the Porshe in a race (sometimes).....but the Porshe is a fine peice of engineering....

    Same for the on-topic items.
    I'd add that then that the Avid Mechanicals are like an F150 truck. Best selling, reliable, and you can beat on em like it's rented tractor. I haven't ridden the Juicys or the Minis, but the wife & I have had 3 pair of the Magura Marta SLs in addition to several pair of the Avid Mechs. I made the switch to Martas in a silly weight weenie phase a while back, but am transitioning back to my old Avid Mechs. I like the KISS principle - and manual dial in ability.

    I'm just not so sold on hydraulics, I suppose that was my point. Seems overkill - but I'm not a big guy like Padre and I'm too old to rail the downhills like I don't have a care. my 2cents. (that said my next bike build will be using a parts bin set of Martas. doh!)

  20. #20
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    To muddy the waters even further...

    I would strongly argue in favor of Magura Louise, which are sold at a price comparable to Avid Juicy and Hope Mono Mini.

    I've used Avid Mech, Hope Mini (old), Hope Mono M4, Hayes Hydraulic, Magura Louise. Have not used the Mono Mini, but I understand from those who have used the old and new Minis that the new one is less powerful but quieter. My Mono M4 are quieter than my old Mini, so I can believe that the newer caliper design improves the noise factor.

    My thoughts:

    Avid Mech -- easiest to install, reliable, allow you to use your existing V-brake levers if converting from Vs. Surprising power. Modulation acceptable with Avid Speed Dial levers, modulation OUTSTANDING with high quality levers like Avid Ultimate or Paul's Love Lever.

    Hope Mini (old)
    -- Finicky installation, works best if you face the mounting tabs, modulation and feel are excellent, power is very good but fade can be an issue on long DH runs if you use small rotors. Using DOT 5.1 fluid helps on the fade issue. Noisy with Hope standard pads. Apparently they work very well with Galfer pads&rotors.

    Hope Mono M4 -- Same finicky installation, modulation-power-feel are outstanding. Top notch. Occasional squeal, but not as much as the old design (non-Mono).

    Magura Louise -- Shim installation that is a bit less finicky than Hopes. Excellent power, feel, modulation. Very quiet. The best disc brake I've used.

  21. #21
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    dubble post dilemmy

  22. #22
    TRACKDADDY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    Fistly, there is a brake forum just down the page. Second, Where is the brake going, what kind of mount and do you have the new post mount Hope brakes or the older IS mount. If it's the IS to IS you just use the Hope +20 IS adapter, P/N HBIS20. They also have + 20 for 74mm post mount, just look on the NET.

    Thanks Rivet I see it now.. I have the older IS mount and I'll look for the +20 IS adapter. I wanna say THANK YOU to everyone that has responded and I especially got a kick out of the car and truck comparison! I think I may just sell the bike with Avid Mechs and keep both set of brake for my own comparison down the road once I get the 29er up and rolling, who knows???
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  23. #23
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    I'd stay with Avid.

    I havbe used pretty much every type of Hopes they've had on the market since around 1999, and I've always had the same problems, long break-in period, noisey, they don't work well for long and rattly levers, I went over to Avids in 2004 and haven't looked back since.

    I've had Avid Juicy 7, Juicy Carbon and I've just received a set of BB7 for use on a bit more of a budget build, I can't rate them high enough! They work out of the box and keep working and getting better, no noise problems and they look great too...

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Article 48
    To muddy the waters even further...

    I would strongly argue in favor of Magura Louise, which are sold at a price comparable to Avid Juicy and Hope Mono Mini.

    I've used Avid Mech, Hope Mini (old), Hope Mono M4, Hayes Hydraulic, Magura Louise. Have not used the Mono Mini, but I understand from those who have used the old and new Minis that the new one is less powerful but quieter. My Mono M4 are quieter than my old Mini, so I can believe that the newer caliper design improves the noise factor.
    I don't see how the MonoMini would be less powerful than the old one when the same rotor size is used...they both have identical master/slave piston ratio's. In fact, this is true throughout the Hope line with the exception of the MonoTrials and possibly their new FR brake. So given the same rotor size, they should all have the same power. The difference is going to be how they handle heat.

    Back on topic... I'm a huge Hope fan and recommend them over the Avids. But if you're like me (and apparently Law) and hover in the 200lb range while enjoying rides with the occational huge elevation loss, the Mini doesn't have the heat handling capability that something with more pad surface area (like the M4) will have.

    LAW - I have that same issue with my Mini's, even just going down Story Burn to Brown's Camp.
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  25. #25
    Law
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    Quote Originally Posted by smudge
    I don't see how the MonoMini would be less powerful than the old one when the same rotor size is used...they both have identical master/slave piston ratio's. In fact, this is true throughout the Hope line with the exception of the MonoTrials and possibly their new FR brake. So given the same rotor size, they should all have the same power. The difference is going to be how they handle heat.

    Back on topic... I'm a huge Hope fan and recommend them over the Avids. But if you're like me (and apparently Law) and hover in the 200lb range while enjoying rides with the occational huge elevation loss, the Mini doesn't have the heat handling capability that something with more pad surface area (like the M4) will have.

    LAW - I have that same issue with my Mini's, even just going down Story Burn to Brown's Camp.

    I that is a steep little bit there. I have ridden up that and it just about kills me to ride. Perhaps someday I will be able to ride up and over that one large root/stump or whatever. I am sure you know the spot.

    The M4 is also a very sweet brake.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by smudge
    I don't see how the MonoMini would be less powerful than the old one when the same rotor size is used...they both have identical master/slave piston ratio's. In fact, this is true throughout the Hope line with the exception of the MonoTrials and possibly their new FR brake. So given the same rotor size, they should all have the same power. The difference is going to be how they handle heat.
    I think you're making the mistake most commonly seen in suspension discussion, and that is believing that on-paper equates to in-real-use.

    If you think every 6" rotor brake has the same power and feel and modulation, you obviously don't have a lot of sensitivity when it comes to the fingers you use to apply braking force at the brake lever.

    I can tell you as a matter of defintely accurate (but indeed subjective) observation that among the various disc brakes I've used there are significant differences in power, feel and modulation even with the same size rotor.

    As to the Hopes, the calipers are different design between the old Mini and the Mono Mini. Whether the on-paper "ratio" is the same seems quite irrelevant. I can tell you as a matter of fact that the same exact Avid Mechanical disc caliper is experienced completely differently when you swap from an Avid Ultimate to an Avid Speed Dial 5 lever. The power is applied differently, the modulation is more vague at points and more abrupt at others, and the feel is totally different. But it's the same caliper, same cable, same pads.

    Maybe you don't have enough sensitivity in your braking fingers. Or maybe you are just talking about on-paper.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Article 48
    I think you're making the mistake most commonly seen in suspension discussion, and that is believing that on-paper equates to in-real-use.

    If you think every 6" rotor brake has the same power and feel and modulation, you obviously don't have a lot of sensitivity when it comes to the fingers you use to apply braking force at the brake lever.

    I can tell you as a matter of defintely accurate (but indeed subjective) observation that among the various disc brakes I've used there are significant differences in power, feel and modulation even with the same size rotor.

    As to the Hopes, the calipers are different design between the old Mini and the Mono Mini. Whether the on-paper "ratio" is the same seems quite irrelevant. I can tell you as a matter of fact that the same exact Avid Mechanical disc caliper is experienced completely differently when you swap from an Avid Ultimate to an Avid Speed Dial 5 lever. The power is applied differently, the modulation is more vague at points and more abrupt at others, and the feel is totally different. But it's the same caliper, same cable, same pads.

    Maybe you don't have enough sensitivity in your braking fingers. Or maybe you are just talking about on-paper.
    Did I say that every 6" rotor brake has the same power? I didn't. I said that the HOPE brakes, given the same rotor diameter have the same power (I should have written same pads too). All recent Hope brakes have the same piston area...period (except with the previously mentioned trials and FR versions).

    So you can take your real world observations and I'll tell you that they're great but you're also "feeling" the difference in who knows how many variables - pad contamination, rotor contamination, moisture, temps, alignment blah blah blah. But when you're talking leverage through the hydraulic system, they're the same...period.

    If you change levers on your mech brake, ESPECIALLY when both levers have adjustable leverage AND most likely have a difference in lever stiffness...I'll let you finish the argument.

    I'll give you this, the old mini had a tendency to flex at the caliper, so much so that some of them occasionally leaked oil. Perhaps that's the difference in the system you can detect.
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    smudge, your Type A factor is overwhelming. Don't hurt yourself acknowledging that my observations had merit. And don't hurt yourself by backpedaling without looking behind you.

    Sheesh.

  29. #29
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    Juicy for me...

    Tried the Mini's and Mono Mini's and they were way too noisy. Currently running Juicy Carbon's with 185mm rotors and lovin' them!

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law
    Fat? That was a harsh question, but maybe a little. 215-220 last year on Avids 6inch rotors, less than 200 right now on Hopes. I don't think that either weight is particularly horrible. This year's weight feels much better though.
    I asked that as a fellow fatty at 215lbs. (I hide it well...) Don't worry, your butt doesn't look big.
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  31. #31
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    The Hopes are the better brake but they are more expensive and a far bigger PITA to deal with.

    If you appreciate the aesthete, absolutely, positively must have the best modulation and power combo, and like to fiddle with your bikes ad nauseum...get the Hopes. The +20mm adapter works but is a ghetto solution, to me, for such blingy brakes. Like a big wing on the back of a STi.

    If you want a really good brake that is the simplest hydro (or mech) to set up and maintain...get the J7 and run Galfer pads. Since it is a OE spec many LBSs have readily available parts for them too.
    Professional Amateur. Disagree? Submit your grievances here.

  32. #32
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    I've run Hopes for 5 years...

    or there about. Started with the old style mini's and have the newer style mono mini's. For the most part I've been happy with them, good stopping power for 'all mountain' riding, great modulation. The old style were much noisier, I called Hope up (pre-US distributor) and their advice to me was to ride them through a bloody mud-puddle or pi$$ on them. I was sold, freaking hilarious guys (and girl)

    They are a bit of a pain to set-up, washers come on, not to mention the clip that holds the pads in, oi! One time the clip that holds the pads in somehow came off the front caliper and the pads fell out, on a super fast downhill just as a tight switch back was coming up, over the edge was a nice big drop that I would have needed a parachute to survive. You know typical inopportune time, ended up bailing off that back of the bike and walked away, but that was a little scary. I had a couple other things that started to annoy me, so I'm building up a new bike with some Juicey 7's (07's). I know quite a few people that rave about them so I figured I'd give them a try.

    I guess my point is you'd be fine with either, both solid choices.

  33. #33
    Law
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    I asked that as a fellow fatty at 215lbs. (I hide it well...) Don't worry, your butt doesn't look big.

    My butt is sweet. It is my gut that has tended to be on the large size in the past. Well, that I and used to need a "bro" for my man boobs. Thankfully I am just an 'A' cup now.

    You don't look too fat in that pic. Considering you are about 4 or 5 inches taller than me, you are probably fine.

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