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  1. #1
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    Dean and Ionic do not warrantee rust

    OK, it's been ages since this problem started but I have had enough. About 2-3 years ago I bought a frame from Ionic, which some of you may know are the steel side of Dean bikes. I'd say about 6 months after I got the frame I noticed unusal colouring around the stops, which looked like rust was forming. The photos are current so you get the idea of how the rust has developed. Now, am I asking too much that a frame with a life time warrantee should not do this? I don't believe any frame should do this. I don't feel safe riding this bike and have replaced the frame with a quality product instead. This is a big dissapointment becuase otherwise I really liked the frame.



    After being on this forum for a while I have noticed that Dean don't have a great reputation, and I wish I had seen that before I got the frame, as there are a lot of better choices out there. I figured I could handle a long wait for a frame, which I got. I also got poor communication and shocking warrantee service. Their come back is that "Wear from normal use or environmental exposure is not covered by this warranty. and rusting of a steel frame is environmental". Well, no, this was neither wear nor environmental, but due to bad work that promoted rust. It started under perfect paint, on a new frame, and there is no rust on faced surfaces, just the stops. Spectrum painted the frame, but I am still not sure who is at fault here. Regardless, I feel Ionic/Dean should cover the warrantee if they decide to not paint in house. Do any of you frame makers have an idea how this could happen?
    Last edited by finch2; 05-30-2011 at 05:29 PM. Reason: correction

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    wow

    thats bad.

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    The bad news: just about nobody has a warranty that covers rust. It certainly seems like Spectrum dropped the ball here. Was there primer under the powder? Probably not. I would have imagined one or the other parties involved would've made you some offer, but since they didn't you're basically SOL for relief that way.

    The good news: this is not a safety issue. I'd just strip the paint/powder from the affected areas (down to clean bare metal), prime it and do a homebrew wet paint. Since the rust is coming from the surface, rather than underneath, it likely has only gone so far. The really bad rust stories are the ones where water has sat in the bottom of the seat tube for long periods of time. That'll rust right through, eventually.

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    What tube is that?

    Top tube, down tube or seat or chain stay? If you wrote that, sorry I missed it in the post. It looks, and this is just conjecture, that a salty or corrosive substance got on the frame in a spot with a little chip or scratch in the paint and allow oxidation to take place.

    It sucks, I would not be really happy with the folks who painted the bike, but demanding someone warranty something like this is kind of ridiculous. My solution would be to find a local powder coater, pay to have it stripped and repainted and tell all my friends how much the paint sucked originally.

    It doesn't hurt to ask if this is considered normal, or if one of the interested parties would be willing to help, but personally I would never have considered contacting anyone at Dean/Ionic or Spectrum about this. Wear and tear are not covered by any warranty.

    Good luck with getting the result you want. I would really have that checked out to make sure it is just surface rust.
    Last edited by scarkinsmel; 05-28-2011 at 03:15 PM.

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    what gets me thinking is that the frame is just 2-3 years old and as long as there was no abuse (i trust the OP here) this should clearly be a warranty issue.

    this is not a spot, where rust should show up under the given circumstances - starting after 6 months. IMO looks much like spectrum powderworks screwed it up, after my let's say mixed personal experiences with them it doesnt surprise me really. lucky me it was a ti frame, this way the damage they can do should be limited ...

    take it back to the builder and have it warrantied.
    Last edited by hellocook; 05-28-2011 at 07:29 AM.

  6. #6
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    That sucks. As others have said, that looks repairable. Strip the frame, treat the rust and get it powder coated and you should be good. Too bad they won't help you out in this case.

  7. #7
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    Get an aluminum, carbon or scandium frame. You obviously live in a very high humidty or salty environment and you store your bike outside. I painted a Schwinn Stingray with a spray paint can and never got rust like that in So California, ever, for years of abuse. Do you live in a salt spray environment near the beach, because I see rust like that on cars too, near beach front property.

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    Blame the painter

    The guides were most likely brazed on with silver brazing wire, for which you use flux on the contacting surfaces to keep the metal from oxidizing and preventing the silver from sticking things together.

    That's normal. However, when the flux doesn't get *completely* removed prior to painting, it prevents the paint from adhering to the metal AND attracts moisture like crazy. That is most likely what happened here.

    So the bottom line is:
    -The painter blew it.
    -Many builders/manufacturers would warranty the paint/powdercoat job. Many will only do so for a limited period of time (one year, for example) however - this problem should have been obvious well before it got this bad.
    -The frame itself is fine. Take it to a local paint/powdercoat place and have it re-done. For $100 you'll be back out there.
    -You probably should have resolved this situation one way or another when you first noticed the problem, not let it continue until now.

    -Walt
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    finch2:

    i would again insist on having it warrantied. after all you have life time warranty on the frame against manufacturing defects and it should not matter if you have waited doing it.

    plan b: forget about it, not worth the time and the money is gone anyhow (that's what i decided doing after being treated poorly by spectrum powderworks.

    plan c: after again seeing people raving about spectrum without even having the frame in their hands yet (!) i could not help myself and decided to post my experience with them in the web. so, that's what i ended up doing: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...80819#poststop
    at least this help pthers to be more careful with spectrum ...

  10. #10
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    How did the rust get that bad? Are you riding in the rain / snow often? Even on a bare frame, I don't expect that kind of rust unless you're hosing down your bike after riding in mud all day and night or commuting in bad conditions regularly. Worst case, you could just get the frame stripped and powdercoated; should've been done by the owner a long time ago. I look at that pic and don't blame the manufacturer, I blame the owner for negligence.
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  11. #11
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    Thanks for the replies guys...

    John Biker - I can understand that rust is an eventuality, but on a new frame? I'd like to know how it happened too, and if I find out, I'll post it up. I will probably do as you suggested, mainly becuase I have no options. At least I'll see the extent of damage.

    Sarki - Yes, the top tube. In all fairness I will guess that once the corrosion broke through the paint and the paint flaked off, it was exposed to weather, and sweat. The damage was done well before that point though. I'll repeat..this was NOT wear and tear. the frame was new, in absolutely perfect condition. It took no time at all for rust to show. I disagree about who to contact, but I did also investigate a local repair. It boils down to cost, and who I think should be responsible. I think the manufacturer is definitely the first person to tell of a fault in their process. Whethere they bother to reply or deal with it is another matter.

    Hellcook - thanks for that. Yes, a new frame. What is more, I should elaborate. This is the worst point of rust, and there is another just as bad, again on a stop on the top tube. In fact 90% of all fittings have some indication of rust developing. A little discolouration on some, which would not bother me if stable. There are stops on the down tube showning viens of rust growiing now, and I guess it's just time till they all get it. Yes, I agree on your options. With as much going on in everyday life I have done as much as I am willing to try to talk to Ionic to get a satisfactory result. This posting is a last resort as I am left with nothing but the feeling of being shafted.

    randy - ha, far from it, I live 60km inland on the driest continent on earth. We rarely have rust issues here. In fact I have my orignal 25 year old steel road frame with far less problems. Way ahead of you too, I replaced it with Ti

    walt - thanks for that walt. That is exactly what I was wondering about. Way ahead of you though. I first mentioned it in passing 6 months after getting it, but it wasn't bad then. I hoped it was a freak vein of rust which would get no worse. I mentioned it again one year later, wanting a result that time as it was obvious the problem was epidemic. Unlike you and other decent makers, Ionic don't bother replying to emails and I sent countless emails to them with no reply. I think the last time I heard from them before just now, John said he'd ask Spectrum for me. My problem with repairs is I don't yet know the extent of damage, and it will probably require all new stops as well as paint and cost a lot. More than I think is worth investing in this frame. I got quotes for 300AUD wet coat...not including any rectification work. PC was cheaper at $150, but that is just the start.

    Illancord - as mentioned before, I live ina steel friendly environment. I have had steel frames in the past. The rust issue appeared under perfect paint and was not wear but as Walt points out likely bad prep, which makes sense as all stops seem to be affected. Contrary to your assessment I made sure i did not touch or alter the frame in any way while i was trying to secure a result on warratee. Working on the frame without permission of the manufacturer would be problematic...however, now I am free to do so. I asked for a verdict a long time ago before it got this bad for that very reason.

  12. #12
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    Bummer.

    I would recommend always calling. Email is easy to ignore.

    It sounds like you've done everything right and gotten screwed, which really sucks. If you were in the US, I'd tell you to bring the bike to me and I'd have the stops replaced and new powdercoat for ya in like a week, for <$200. But I'm thinking it doesn't make sense to ship from down under!

    Good luck, and sorry to hear about this.

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  13. #13
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    thanks walt...really, it could be an option for me to send it to you. The problem is postage at over $100 each way minimum. I should have called I think oyu are right, but at the end of the day I am sure I'd have got the same answer. I might get back to you if I can't find a good option locally

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    I would recommend always calling. Email is easy to ignore.

    It sounds like you've done everything right and gotten screwed, which really sucks. If you were in the US, I'd tell you to bring the bike to me and I'd have the stops replaced and new powdercoat for ya in like a week, for <$200. But I'm thinking it doesn't make sense to ship from down under!

    Good luck, and sorry to hear about this.

    -Walt
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  15. #15
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    Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this the frame wouldn't even allow the rear wheel to run straight it was so far out of alignment in the rear end?

    This thread should be made a sticky, so noone else has to endure this mob's crap.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagicCarpet View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this the frame wouldn't even allow the rear wheel to run straight it was so far out of alignment in the rear end?

    This thread should be made a sticky, so noone else has to endure this mob's crap.
    Hi MC...well it wasn't that bad, but yes, the rear wheel ran a little out - probaby a few mm. Enough to bug me so much I ended up putting the slider dropout into my overhead router and took off just under 1mm to get it centred again. The frame wasn't perfect but I never would have complained if it wasn't for way I was treated. Another gripe I had was the fork hitting the downtube after I mentioned this prior to the build....but then again, I mentioned rust as well, which is why I went solid colour and primer. Little good that did me.

  17. #17
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    I haven't read the whole thread but steel does rust. I don't care for paint either plus I don't like rust and that is why most of my bikes are titanium. Rust never sleeps. So I can see where they would not warranty it it. Buy titanium next time.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juanmoretime View Post
    I haven't read the whole thread but steel does rust. I don't care for paint either plus I don't like rust and that is why most of my bikes are titanium. Rust never sleeps. So I can see where they would not warranty it it. Buy titanium next time.
    It may be a good idea to read a thread before posting. It's not long. Everything you just said is redundant.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by finch2 View Post
    thanks walt...really, it could be an option for me to send it to you. The problem is postage at over $100 each way minimum. I should have called I think oyu are right, but at the end of the day I am sure I'd have got the same answer. I might get back to you if I can't find a good option locally
    There are several Australian frame builders I can think of.
    GripSport would be a good place to start.
    I have been lead to believe they will quote on repairs via e mail with a photo.
    I live in a Backwater called Perth and even we could get that repaired locally.
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  20. #20
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    The question seems to be who is responsible for the cost, not whether or not it can be repaired locally.

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    Funny you should say that Mitzikatzi as grip sport was one of the original quotes, and I emailed them again yesterday. Cosgrove is local but the wet coat (even though I prefer it) is a little more than I want to spend on this frame. I might ask him if he does PC. I'm hoping that PC will be fine if done properly....this whole episode has really made me wary of PC. Anyone else I should know about? I'm open to ideas.

    Cheers MC...I'm not banking on Ionic/Dean coming to the party. If I don't get it done soon I may be up for more cost. If walt and some others think the tube is OK, I may avoid throwing the frame into the bin.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagicCarpet View Post
    The question seems to be who is responsible for the cost, not whether or not it can be repaired locally.
    Often with warranty claims the owner is responcible for the postage costs. In this case it might be cheaper for the owner to pay for the repair than return the frame to the US.

    On advantage of buying thru a local shop. It is easy to return defective products.

    I also think letting it get that bad (after 3 years) the owner has contributed to the overall "damage" thru neglect.

    The OP made the comment about getting it repaired locally. I suggested gripsport. The Op made the comment about sending the frame to Walt. There are plenty of places here that could do that repair if you know were to look.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by finch2 View Post
    Funny you should say that Mitzikatzi as grip sport was one of the original quotes, and I emailed them again yesterday. Cosgrove is local but the wet coat (even though I prefer it) is a little more than I want to spend on this frame. I might ask him if he does PC. I'm hoping that PC will be fine if done properly....this whole episode has really made me wary of PC. Anyone else I should know about? I'm open to ideas.

    Cheers MC...I'm not banking on Ionic/Dean coming to the party. If I don't get it done soon I may be up for more cost. If walt and some others think the tube is OK, I may avoid throwing the frame into the bin.

    What State/City are you in?

    Maybe you could just have the section around the repair painted in a band. Maybe add a band of paint to another tube to match?
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  24. #24
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    Mitz...$100 postage I can wear if the frame is repaired and returned. As mentioned before, I would never alter or modify a product before warrantee was settled. I suppose I need to repeat myself again...
    I contacted Ionic many many times but they never replied. I specified I wanted an answer before the problem got worse. All in all, if you can imagine watching perfect paint start to bubble and grow viens, BEFORE andy paint started coming off, you'd understand the damage was already done. Scraping away the paint and trying any old method to stop spread would definitely voided any chance of warrantee. What about the other damage onthe frame? Am I suppsed, as somone with no expertise in paint on metal, to strip the whole frame and paint it? Now that I have their answer I can feel free to move on repairs.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitzikatzi View Post
    What State/City are you in?

    Maybe you could just have the section around the repair painted in a band. Maybe add a band of paint to another tube to match?
    I really don't trust that I could do a decent job, and I really want to avoid a dodgy looking one. If I do it myself that will be a last resort. This frame was meant to be a high quality specialist job, not a shoddy mess. It will at a minimum need 3 stops removed and new ones brazed on as well as a host of other issues under paint I probably can't see.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by finch2 View Post
    Cosgrove is local but the wet coat (even though I prefer it) is a little more than I want to spend on this frame. I might ask him if he does PC. I'm hoping that PC will be fine if done properly....this whole episode has really made me wary of PC. Anyone else I should know about? I'm open to ideas.

    Cheers MC...I'm not banking on Ionic/Dean coming to the party. If I don't get it done soon I may be up for more cost. If walt and some others think the tube is OK, I may avoid throwing the frame into the bin.
    Joe doesn't do powder coat. Someone is going to have to install new cable stops and he'd be the best candidate for that. Lewis and Sons at Morningside are retro BMX enthusiasts and have a good reputation for bicycle quality PC. No $50 specials though, from what I hear. Just good results.

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    Thanks MC. I'll check them out.

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    Here is a "list" of Australian frame builders here
    Bundy-Custom-Bicycle-Frames in Sydney

    "post" to Sydney should be reasonable from Brisbane?

    I have read of "blast" and powdercoat costing from $80 and upwards with about $150 often quoted. Care needs to be taken in the BB threads or they need cleaning up with a thread cutter.

    A bike shop near me will paint a frame and charge $150 for a "basic" two pak job. Again paint can end up costing a huge amount.

    To the OP I feel sorry for your situation.
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    Thanks Mitz...will look into that as well. One interesting thing I learnt that some charge more to strip PC as it is so tough. When and if I get a quote and get the work done, I really need to feel confident the job will be done properly. 50 or 100 difference I can live with but I'm going to balk at paying over $400 for the entire job including postage on this frame. Good money after bad, when I could spend that on something else. It's just a shame and waste.

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    Quote Originally Posted by finch2 View Post
    It may be a good idea to read a thread before posting. It's not long. Everything you just said is redundant.
    Sure, the next thing I know you will tell me I should read a manual before I work on something!
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juanmoretime View Post
    Sure, the next thing I know you will tell me I should read a manual before I work on something!

    ha, I know I am guilty of never reading a map before I set off...sometimes I even find where I am headed!

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    Bad rear wheel mount AND bad paint!? That's total crap! Dean and spectrum should step up on this one.
    As said before, the flux used in the brazing most likely caused the paint to bubble, then oxidation took over. Chalk that up to substandard frame prep before powdercoat.
    As for the wheel issue, I'd have sent it back as soon as I discovered that.
    Good luck!
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    Quote Originally Posted by curtboroff View Post
    Bad rear wheel mount AND bad paint!? That's total crap! Dean and spectrum should step up on this one.
    As said before, the flux used in the brazing most likely caused the paint to bubble, then oxidation took over. Chalk that up to substandard frame prep before powdercoat.
    As for the wheel issue, I'd have sent it back as soon as I discovered that.
    Good luck!
    In fairness to Ionic I never mentioned the wheel issue as it wasn't huge, just irritating. I looked at it and said to myself "I can fix that", unlike the paint. So I did. You are right though, I would have sent it back if I lived in the USA. My relationship with the builder was a good one as well and so I let that slip by as I could fix it myself.

    I have also changed the heading of this thread too, as I was in error. I got an email from Spectrum today in which they told me they DO warrrantee their paint in the first year. I was told point blank by Ionic they do not, and they never bothered to try and sort that out for me, despite me getting back to them well in time. My apologies to Spectrum. It looks as though I've slipped through a gap due to Ionic not following up or taking my concerns seriously.

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    mods, can you help me change the title as it appears on the thread listing? I changed it on the post but it doesn't seem to trnsfer...thanks.

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    If you paid Ionic for the entire purchase then they are the people to blame. If you had them send the frame to Spectrum and paid them separately then point the finger at them. Either way it's Spectrums fault but I think who you paid for the powder job is who you need to raise a fuss with. I've seen a few of their 'regular' powder jobs and I can't say they are worth 4 times the price of what I can have them coated for locally.

    I'm not sure why you would need to replace the cable stops? If you are going to sand blast the tube why not do the cable stop and see what you have left with? Their is way more material in those paragon stops than in the tube they are brazed to. I would be surprised to here that a painter couldn't get those stops down to bare mettle. Of course if there is rust underneath the stop then it has to come off.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by customfab View Post
    If you paid Ionic for the entire purchase then they are the people to blame. If you had them send the frame to Spectrum and paid them separately then point the finger at them. Either way it's Spectrums fault but I think who you paid for the powder job is who you need to raise a fuss with. I've seen a few of their 'regular' powder jobs and I can't say they are worth 4 times the price of what I can have them coated for locally.

    I'm not sure why you would need to replace the cable stops? If you are going to sand blast the tube why not do the cable stop and see what you have left with? Their is way more material in those paragon stops than in the tube they are brazed to. I would be surprised to here that a painter couldn't get those stops down to bare mettle. Of course if there is rust underneath the stop then it has to come off.
    I agree totally. Spectrum are Ionic sub contractor and Ionic must take ultimate responsibility for who they choose. Having said that though, I contacted Spectrum because I wanted to get to the truth of the matter, and so far I can only say they are better to communicate with than Ionic. Spectrum seem to think there is an alternate reason for the intial corrosion but I'll have to hear them out and I'll let you know if there is anything new.

    What you say abouthte stops is exactly why I need someone in the industry to help here, as I have no expertise on this. I have no idea just how good the techniques are at getting into nooks and crannys. Some of the longer stops have a kind of hard to get at spot that I could imagine would be hard to clean out properly. Of course, I want it to look OK too, and not be a constant reminder of what happened.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by finch2 View Post
    I got an email from Spectrum today in which they told me they DO warrrantee their paint in the first year. I was told point blank by Ionic they do not, and they never bothered to try and sort that out for me, despite me getting back to them well in time. My apologies to Spectrum. It looks as though I've slipped through a gap due to Ionic not following up or taking my concerns seriously.
    this response from spectrum would have pissed me off even more: yes, we screwed up the paint job (obvious fact to everybody who has some basic technical knowledge, even if they don't say it). yes, we warrantee. but no, we don't feel responsible for your case because we only warrantee up to 1 year. and yes, we are writing you this mail just to waste even more of your time than we already have with our shitty paint job. because yes, we are not responsible after 365 days the way we have defined our business. and we will sleep firm and with a clear concience tonight after sending you this letter and having the problem fixed we have caused to you...

    besides, if i remember correctly you have addressed this issue within 365 days to ionic. not processing a complaint does not release the manufacturer from being responsible. spectrums argumentation is just an attempt to talk themselves out of it. i have seen them doing it again and again.

    HOW DO THEY DARE TO WRITE SUCH A LETTER AFTER SCREWING UP THE FRAME?

    we should keep in mind where the root of the problem is. it is a fact that spectrum powder remains the one to be blamed - they are just lucky that ionic has a no existent customer service and the customer sits down under what makes it more difficult for him to complain.

    back to the problem: as being said before by another poster you have to go through ionic since you have purchased the frame from them. ionic is your (only) busines partner. ionic again has to make his supplier spectrum responsible. ionic warranty is lifetime, therefore it should not matter to you what spectrum says. however, in terms of good customer service and the way US product liability works (yes spectrum, in the US companies tend to be taken responsible for delivering low quality products to their customers) it should have been spectrums own interest to fx the problem and settle with you directly.
    Last edited by hellocook; 05-30-2011 at 11:49 PM.

  38. #38
    1*14*29*2.1 & 1*1*29*2.4
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    As much as I am aggravated by all of this, I have to admit I didn't contact Spectrum and ask them to fix up issues with ionic....and neither should I have. In reality I may have got a better result if I did, as I would have found they have a warrantee and bypassed Ionic altogether. So far Spectrum have been sympathetic at least, and I'll see if they can shed any light on this. In many ways, my beef isn't with who made the mistake or that one happened at all. Mistakes happen and I can understand that, being in manufacturing myself. What I am angry about is that Ionic have not played any part in trying to solve the issue.

  39. #39
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    I most certainly would not have changed the title unless they agreed to fix the problem. They are just sending emails, trying to stop a bad reputation from spreading. The proper way to do that would be to resolve the customer issue.
    The shadow these type of greedy companies cast, is where a bad name for U.S. industry is coming from. What's one paint job, when the alternative is a WORLDWIDE bad rep?
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by finch2 View Post
    What you say abouthte stops is exactly why I need someone in the industry to help here, as I have no expertise on this. I have no idea just how good the techniques are at getting into nooks and crannys. Some of the longer stops have a kind of hard to get at spot that I could imagine would be hard to clean out properly. Of course, I want it to look OK too, and not be a constant reminder of what happened.

    Well Walt suggested they need to be removed. I've built a few frames but he has done a few hundred. It's going to be a decision to be made by the person that carries out the repair. Once you get the paint off you can see how bad the rust is, where it started from and figure out the best way to fix it.

  41. #41
    yaj
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    I have the same problem with my frame. I want to remove the cable stops and get it powder coated. What is the best way to cut them off?

  42. #42
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    This issue has come to a close for now as I have tried everything to get Ionic to show some kind of responsibility for their frame without success. I at least managed to talk to Spectrum who were sympathetic and did offer some kind of help to me (even though it is outside their warrantee period), but ultimately the cost of getting it fixed without warrantee support from Ionic makes it not worth it. Good money after bad. Getting it fixed locally hasn't proved simple either with limited options. I am not keen on powdercoat after my experiences. To give spectrum's view point, they insist that the prep was done properly but there is a 1 in 500 chance of voids and exclusions, especially over improperly brazed areas that are impossible for paint to seal. This would have let sweat or other corrosive substances into the metal. This is a fair point, but besides the bad rust on the frame there is rust staining on just about every brazed point there is. The frame looks old. Spectrum do have a warrantee to cover this issue which may have helped me if Ionic had (a) not lied to me about a warrantee, and (b) applied a primer which was specified and agreed on before manufacture.

    Right now I have made the decision to follow something close to Mitz's idea of a patch up job. This is where I can give Yaj some ideas...please don't cringe all you reputable builders I took a propane torch to the two worst stops and removed them and treated the rust as best I could and sprayed it with welding primer. One day the frame may get a decent paint and braze when I feel it deserves it and I commit to a configuration. It's set up for rohloff but will likely never see one again. The only thing I can say now is that if anyone is considering anything from Dean or Ionic, they should forget about it. Don't buy significant items that don't come from a reputable source. I hope anyone doing their homework comes across this.

  43. #43
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    My 2 cents.
    In all businesses, mistakes are made. Just like anyone, Spectrum makes their fair share. Customer service after the sale is a huge factor in determining who is worth a salt. The fact that Spectrum is standing behind their work shows that they are reputable and give a shite. After dealing with them on numerous occasions and then dealing with other powder coaters I'm willing to pay the extra for just that alone. Dean/Ionic has not, never has and quite frankly probably never will show that they care what the customer/public thinks. Just google Dean-bike-customer service.
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff View Post
    My 2 cents.
    In all businesses, mistakes are made. Just like anyone, Spectrum makes their fair share. Customer service after the sale is a huge factor in determining who is worth a salt. The fact that Spectrum is standing behind their work shows that they are reputable and give a shite. After dealing with them on numerous occasions and then dealing with other powder coaters I'm willing to pay the extra for just that alone. Dean/Ionic has not, never has and quite frankly probably never will show that they care what the customer/public thinks. Just google Dean-bike-customer service.
    +1 for me

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