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  1. #1
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    New question here. Custom Ti frame with new features like tapered, X-12, E-type FD mount, etc.?

    Hi folks,
    I would like to know if it would be possible to get a custom Titanium frame with the new emerging standards like:
    - Tapered headset: 1.5" towards 1.1/8" since more and more of the new and advanced (lighter) forks are tapered
    - Front dereullieur with E-type mount: To save space and hence more tire clearance at the seat tube, without the need to have it super-bended.
    - Syntace X-12 rear axle system: To have a stiffer backend, even so I am not sure if that is really needed, but more and more hubs etc. are supporting it. And more and more standard frames are implementing it.

    Are you aware if custome ti builders are offering the options above?
    I believe I have seen tapered headset and would assume that E-mount should be doable as well, but haven't come across Syntace X-12 yet.

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
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    I'd bet Vertigo could/would entertain most of these ideas.

    The tapered steer tube is probably best dealt with by using a 44mm ID headtube at this point.
    Last edited by Nater; 09-07-2011 at 10:52 AM.

  3. #3
    Plays with tools
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    the head tube is no problem thanks to Vertigo setting a new fitment that works out really well for small builders. An E-type FD will work on any threaded bottom bracket. Are you thinking of the direct mount? They don't really solve any problems for hard tails. I know there are a couple of companies that are making dropouts for through bolt rears, not sure about the syntace though. I have seen somebody use a maxle rear end on a custom. A DT RWS through bolt that will work with standard dropouts may be a better option for this depending on application.

    What you really need to do is contact a custom builder and ask them what they are willing to do. Strong, Kish and DeSolvo are all solid builders that you should pose these questions to if your serious about having such a bike built.

  4. #4
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    X-12 i am checking out right now for my own build. i will get back to you once i have the feedback from the builder.

    direct mount front derailleur can also be solved with just using the right low mount versions. some don't take much space (like the XTR M95x series, on top it is super light).

    tapered fork is no problem nowadays. ZS44 is an obvious solution, but zs49/zs44 is possible as well as you can see below ...:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Custom Ti frame with new features like tapered, X-12, E-type FD mount, etc.?-ke_8.jpg  


  5. #5
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    Scrap the E-type f der. The chain can get wedged in there. Seems like PFBB30 standard is really the way to go for a BB, which is incompatible with E-type f der. Do direct mount. Looks slick. Look at bystickel steel bikes and the Canfiled Nimble Nine. Both use straight seat tube, offset it forward, use a direct mount f der and have super short CS length.

  6. #6
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    check out www.formcycles.com... they will discuss all the options with you and make awesome Ti frames...

  7. #7
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    i have to say i dont see the point in the 142/syntace system...you dont get a wider flange spacing, let alone symmetrical (though i believe specialized do something similar-but-probably-patented-and-so-slightly-different that might have slightly wider flange spacing) you do get a tiny shelf to align the axle in the drops but is it really an issue with a thru axle like the RWS?

    why NOT go 150mm and utilise s bend stays to get the heal clearance, and get a stronger rear wheel into the bargain? chainline ends up pretty good since the HT II altered things too...

    my thoughts anyway...maybe im missing something...?

  8. #8
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    And... about Lynskey Custom program?! You can do everithing...

  9. #9
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    Thanks guys,
    that is helpful.
    @dRjOn: I thought that Specialized is using the Syntace X-12 system? At least that was my understanding, with they called X-12 142mm.

  10. #10
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    XX44 headtubes are great as they lets you use wider top tube sections for better handling with longer forks or more aggro riding. Also, less vertical ovalisation of the DT near the HT which is a good thing.
    Syntace rear is a nice way to do it but I'd agree with DrJon, 150mm dishless offers a real advantage. 150mm Maxle lite if you're not too fussed about weight. It won't stiffen up a good hardtail a lot, but it'll help, especially with 29" wheels.
    If you do this, just make sure the mainframe is stiff enough to support the ends. Ti can make a flexy frame, i think if in doubt, go up a tube size.
    Vertigo Cycles has to be the obvious choice for something like this.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dRjOn View Post
    i have to say i dont see the point in the 142/syntace system...you dont get a wider flange spacing, let alone symmetrical (though i believe specialized do something similar-but-probably-patented-and-so-slightly-different that might have slightly wider flange spacing) you do get a tiny shelf to align the axle in the drops but is it really an issue with a thru axle like the RWS?

    why NOT go 150mm and utilise s bend stays to get the heal clearance, and get a stronger rear wheel into the bargain? chainline ends up pretty good since the HT II altered things too...

    my thoughts anyway...maybe im missing something...?
    The only reason for the 142-12 is to make it easier to install the wheel/through axle. Otherwise it not different than a 135-12 TA setup.
    mtbtires.com
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by omega1848 View Post
    Thanks guys,
    that is helpful.
    @dRjOn: I thought that Specialized is using the Syntace X-12 system? At least that was my understanding, with they called X-12 142mm.
    Nobody really refers to it as X-12 or Syntace any more.
    mtbtires.com
    The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common

  13. #13
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    specialized

    ya - i think its the hub they altered....put the cassette slightly outboard see:
    Specialized's 2011 Mountain Bikes: Epic, Camber And More - BikeRadar

  14. #14
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    Specialized has a 2mm wider flange with their 142mm+ setup. It means that the cassette is moved closer to the right seat/chainstay and has to be taken into account when designing/constructing the rear triangle. The Specialized hubs can be bought separately.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    The only reason for the 142-12 is to make it easier to install the wheel/through axle. Otherwise it not different than a 135-12 TA setup.
    There's more to Syntace system then axle guides for easier installation.



    Syntace thread inserts can be concentric or eccentric (0.5 or 1 mm) which helps to align a
    wheel in the frame if dropouts become deformed during painting, post-weld heat treating or just
    plain crash on the trail.


    Other brilliant part is his derailleur hanger system. If hanger gets broken, only thing that needs replacing
    is this screw (which cost about 6 euros/8 bucks):



    On other 142 maxle systems, you still have to replace whole hanger, they are frame specific and more expensive then regular ones.
    Frames with Syntace system all have the same parts, regardless of the brand, and they are easilly replaceable/swappable on the trail between raiders.

  16. #16
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    i suspect finding the syntace specific frame parts in ti would be impossible...
    would potentially be good using the qr version but i still cant see the benefit being worth it if you cant increase the flange spacing...whether you need to use a bolt or a spare drop out is kind of moot isnt it? maybe not...dunno....

  17. #17
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    Custom builders can do any of the things that you want. That's what makes them custom. They will also advise you on the wisdom of doing so...
    'Bones

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ojos Azules View Post
    There's more to Syntace system then axle guides for easier installation.



    Syntace thread inserts can be concentric or eccentric (0.5 or 1 mm) which helps to align a
    wheel in the frame if dropouts become deformed during painting, post-weld heat treating or just
    plain crash on the trail.


    Other brilliant part is his derailleur hanger system. If hanger gets broken, only thing that needs replacing
    is this screw (which cost about 6 euros/8 bucks):



    On other 142 maxle systems, you still have to replace whole hanger, they are frame specific and more expensive then regular ones.
    Frames with Syntace system all have the same parts, regardless of the brand, and they are easilly replaceable/swappable on the trail between raiders.
    Functionally, the only reason to use 142-12 TA over a 135-12 TA is the ease of wheel/axle installation. Period.

    If the frame is misaligned the eccentric insert would only be a partial fix. A simple fore/aft, up/down adjustment introduces other issues.

    I do like the hanger, and that design has been on every 142-12 frame I have seen.

    On a hard tail, I would stay with standard QR dropouts/hubs.
    mtbtires.com
    The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Functionally, the only reason to use 142-12 TA over a 135-12 TA is the ease of wheel/axle installation. Period.

    If the frame is misaligned the eccentric insert would only be a partial fix. A simple fore/aft, up/down adjustment introduces other issues.

    I do like the hanger, and that design has been on every 142-12 frame I have seen.

    On a hard tail, I would stay with standard QR dropouts/hubs.
    This is why I like Shiggy so much, he's practical.
    Sean Chaney :: Owner/Builder :: Vertigo Cycles LLC
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