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  1. #101
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    A pink one?

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxwe11
    A pink one?
    It's called bling.

  3. #103
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    How come there is no metal insert where the rear skewer clamps?

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil335
    How come there is no metal insert where the rear skewer clamps?
    Because it's a cheap carbon knock off made in China.

    Shop wisely. I've got 3 Chinese frames and they all have removable hangers and metal inserts.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil335
    How come there is no metal insert where the rear skewer clamps?
    It is most likely just painted over. I have purchased two different generic frames and the drop-outs were just painted over.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil335
    How come there is no metal insert where the rear skewer clamps?
    It could be a full carbon drop out.

  7. #107
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    It doesn't seem to be painted in the pics I got from Jenny at Hong Fu.

  8. #108
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    So, has anyone broken one of these chinese carbon frames and been able to successfully had anything done about it? Or are you just SOL? If that is the case, I would rather buy an On-One so at least you have a 2 year warranty and could actually communicate with someone fairly easily.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broseph
    So, has anyone broken one of these chinese carbon frames and been able to successfully had anything done about it? Or are you just SOL? If that is the case, I would rather buy an On-One so at least you have a 2 year warranty and could actually communicate with someone fairly easily.
    Kind of agree with Broseph, paying the few extra dollars for a "local frame" where you can go into talk to someone might be worth a few extra bucks.... but not thousands, lol. I to am on the fence about these frames. Part of my problem is the little to no information when they (Chinese suppliers) are responding to my emails. How many times do I need to ask for a delivery eta and detail specs on a frame? Who is everyone dealling with?

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by the-milkybar-kid
    I have a 19" on order from Hung Fu with custom piant shipping date is around dec 12 will post a pic when its here.
    Milkster - have you gotten your frame yet?

    I was looking at the On-One carbon frame - 499GBP ($788) and should be out next spring. There are some people selling 29er frames for $670 on AliExpress, but I'd rather pay $100 more, get the slick On-One dropouts and have a name brand to back it up. But for $450, I could be convinced...

  11. #111
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    Language barrier?

    Quote Originally Posted by dmaindonnie
    Kind of agree with Broseph, paying the few extra dollars for a "local frame" where you can go into talk to someone might be worth a few extra bucks.... but not thousands, lol. I to am on the fence about these frames. Part of my problem is the little to no information when they (Chinese suppliers) are responding to my emails. How many times do I need to ask for a delivery eta and detail specs on a frame? Who is everyone dealling with?
    Maybe they don't know what an ETA is.

    I was in France a week before I figured out what États-Unis was... and wondered why USA never appeared on any internet forms. Crud... I don't speak French (yet)!


    Quote Originally Posted by alexkraemer
    Milkster - have you gotten your frame yet?

    I was looking at the On-One carbon frame - 499GBP ($788) and should be out next spring. There are some people selling 29er frames for $670 on AliExpress, but I'd rather pay $100 more, get the slick On-One dropouts and have a name brand to back it up. But for $450, I could be convinced...

    Yeah, I'm thinking that for under $500, I'll roll the dice on that one. I'm sure they are plenty durable. They're probably not terribly refined in the ride quality department, or the lightest thing out there.

  12. #112
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    Earlier in this thread this is a poster who actually got one of these frames and on the scale it comes in at 2.6lbs for a 17inch frame that is pretty close to what GOTO Bike said it would be.

    I will be pulling the trigger for one of these when their 19inch frame is ready. I was quoted less the 600 CND at my door..assumig the US dollar does not get stronger in the mean time.

  13. #113
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    $500 aint chump change for me even if I do get a crabon frame out of it. I couldn't afford to just throw one of those in the trash and buy a new one.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmaindonnie
    Kind of agree with Broseph, paying the few extra dollars for a "local frame" where you can go into talk to someone might be worth a few extra bucks.... but not thousands, lol. I to am on the fence about these frames. Part of my problem is the little to no information when they (Chinese suppliers) are responding to my emails. How many times do I need to ask for a delivery eta and detail specs on a frame? Who is everyone dealling with?
    If I were you I would email Jenny at Hong-Fu. Everytime I emailed her I get a fast response and all my questions are answered. They don't show a 29er on their website but they do offer it and it is one of the better quality ones too.

  15. #115
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    Can someone post the photo of the Hong-Fu frame? One other thing, has anyone seen it in person to be able to confirm that it is one of the better quality ones (chinese frames)?

  16. #116
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    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  17. #117
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    Does anybody have any pictures of one of these frames built up? I've seen the picture from the website at least 50 times but have yet to see this frame built up.

    What is the difference in the 3 offered finishes? IE What does the 12k, 3k, and UD carbon finish look like?
    Richmond, VA
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  18. #118
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    $390 would work, I just haven't had anyone actually respond to one of my e-mails.

  19. #119
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    I emailed the "Jenny" person and asked about any type of warranty. Haven't heard anything back yet.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broseph
    I emailed the "Jenny" person and asked about any type of warranty. Haven't heard anything back yet.
    A "warranty" is what you get when you pay full retail @ $2000+/- for a frame that has the words "Specialized" or whatever painted on it.

    For $500 +/- you get a knock off (no graphics) or even a counterfeit (painted like the real thing) from China. You don't get a warranty. And even if you did, how would you ever enforce it in Mainland China?

    Look at it this way. You pay $500 for a Chinese carbon frame. I have 3 of them. Trust me, it won't arrive in the box broken. You ride it. I've ridden one of mine (road frame) for 3 years, my wife has ridden a road frame for a year, and I have beat the hell out of a hardtail mtn. frame all of this season, with not the slightest problem.

    But say you have a problem after a number of great rides, 1/2 a season, 1 full season, 2 seasons, whatever. You crack the top tube or a chainstay. You remove the parts, throw the frame out (recycle it), buy a new one, and rebuild. You're still $1000 ahead of the Specialized. Odds are that you won't get 2 lemons in a row. But even if you do, you still have 2 more chances with China with the odds in your favor till you are at break even with Specialized. And by then you are 4 or 5 years down the road, and if you bought that Specialized in the first place, you'd be in the market for a new frame anyway.

    So I'm saying that yes, there is a gamble aspect to this, and you get what you pay for, and if it's too good to be true, then it's false.

    But, do any of us really know that the $2000 Specialized is better built, of higher quality material, and less prone to fail? Maybe the cheap Chinese knock-off is the same exact frame. After all, most of them are built in China anyway. Or maybe it's a piece of junk. I don't believe regular consumers like us have the data available to determine whether one is really measurably different than or superior to the other. Maybe somebody with the right background will study it. Maybe the next issue of Mt. Bike Action will have an article on it. Until then, it's go cheap or go big, take your pick.

    If you aren't willing to risk your money and your body, then a Chinese knock off is not for you. If you want a warranty, then you'd better deal with your LBS and buy full retail.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  21. #121
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    Ive never understood the they are all made in China idea. I build frames, and so does Steve Potts, were both in the USA so our frames are pretty much the same. There are a bunch of factories in China and they all produce good frames and bad frames. paying for a good frame means a lot to me. I could buy 4 cheap carbon frames but I only have 1 set of teeth. If your not particularly fond of your body and dont mind destroying it then by all means get the cheap frame four times. Im not saying a nice frame is not going to break, just that there is a little more substance behind it if it does.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoCo29er
    Ive never understood the they are all made in China idea. I build frames, and so does Steve Potts, were both in the USA so our frames are pretty much the same. There are a bunch of factories in China and they all produce good frames and bad frames. paying for a good frame means a lot to me. I could buy 4 cheap carbon frames but I only have 1 set of teeth. If your not particularly fond of your body and dont mind destroying it then by all means get the cheap frame four times. Im not saying a nice frame is not going to break, just that there is a little more substance behind it if it does.
    Considering the high failure rate of Fisher frames, if you value your teeth, I wouldn't ride a Trek either...

  23. #123
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    not mine...

    but I found this from the NZ site TradeMe
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chinese Carbon 29er-148887451_full.jpeg  

    Chinese Carbon 29er-148887372_full.jpeg  


  24. #124
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    Well, I hate to break it to you, but not everyone pays full retail in order to get a full warranty or buys a new Specialized S-Works frame at full retail for one either. I know I won't be paying full retail on a bike or frame. So that narrows that incentive a little bit. If it is a matter of putting down an extra $300 or $400 for a full warranty, then the Chinese deal just seems less worth the risk. $788 for the On-One is just looking better and better. Granted, I haven't compared that to what I could get on something through my shop yet either.

    For $500, I think it would be reasonable to get manufacturers defects covered for a couple of years even if you had to eat the cost to ship the thing to China.

  25. #125
    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoCo29er
    Ive never understood the they are all made in China idea. I build frames, and so does Steve Potts, were both in the USA so our frames are pretty much the same. There are a bunch of factories in China and they all produce good frames and bad frames. paying for a good frame means a lot to me. I could buy 4 cheap carbon frames but I only have 1 set of teeth. If your not particularly fond of your body and dont mind destroying it then by all means get the cheap frame four times. Im not saying a nice frame is not going to break, just that there is a little more substance behind it if it does.
    It's good to know that we can buy a quality carbon frame from a small business in the USA. As far as the "they're all made in China" meme, it's because literally hundreds of Chinese manufacturers sell many more hundreds of different frames on-line at - let's call them "affordable" instead of "cheap" - prices.

    Some are copies or knock offs. Some are actual counterfeits. Some are unique.

    We don't really know what we're getting for $500 or less from thousand of miles away in a huge country that will soon take over the world and is not known for having warm and cuddly business ethics - so it's somewhat of a gamble.

    My first one was a road frame I rode for 2 years before: a) I bought one for off road; and b) I bought one (road) for my wife. So far, I've been 100% safe and satisfied, and I am now inclined to believe that people who do blow big wads of cash for "name" brands are wasting money on pure marketing hype.

    With your expertise, you can do us all a service by addressing these questions:

    How does a consumer determine what separates a really "cheap" (as opposed to "inexpensive") carbon frame from a quality one? The type of tubing? The weave? The epoxy? Which tubes are used for which part? Etc.

    Where does price fit in? Does it cost a lot more to build a quality frame over a cheap frame?

    How much does a consumer pay for the name "Specialized" or "Scott" or "Trek" or "Santa Cruz" or whatever painted on a frame as opposed to the actual frame?

    How much do you sell frames for and do you warrant them?

    Thx.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broseph
    Well, I hate to break it to you, but not everyone pays full retail in order to get a full warranty or buys a new Specialized S-Works frame at full retail for one either. I know I won't be paying full retail on a bike or frame. So that narrows that incentive a little bit. If it is a matter of putting down an extra $300 or $400 for a full warranty, then the Chinese deal just seems less worth the risk. $788 for the On-One is just looking better and better. Granted, I haven't compared that to what I could get on something through my shop yet either.
    Hate to break it to you, but your On-One frame is 300g heavier and $300 more expensive than my Chinese frame. If mine breaks, then I'll eat my words. Meanwhile, I'm a happy camper.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt
    Hate to break it to you, but your On-One frame is 300g heavier and $300 more expensive than my Chinese frame. If mine breaks, then I'll eat my words. Meanwhile, I'm a happy camper.
    Eh, I'm not looking for the ultimate lightweight 29er. It will be my secondary/bad weather racer/training mtb. I've got a new scalpel on the way for my primary race rig.

    Also, Jenny just emailed me back. Turns out they actually give a two year warranty. Only thing is she didn't mention a 21". Looks like they are only going up to 19".

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dictatorsaurus
    Considering the high failure rate of Fisher frames, if you value your teeth, I wouldn't ride a Trek either...

    Crock statement. Most cracks that I have seen reported were cracks at the TT/ST junction, a few on the chainstays/swingarms. Nothing in the HT area that I have seen. Nothing "catastrophic" where teeth were in peril either, though there may have been a few.
    G
    You can't depend on honest answers from dependant hands...

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Live
    Crock statement. Most cracks that I have seen reported were cracks at the TT/ST junction, a few on the chainstays/swingarms. Nothing in the HT area that I have seen. Nothing "catastrophic" where teeth were in peril either, though there may have been a few.
    G
    The point was there is no statistical data that proves the ebay carbon frames are better or worse than brand names.

    I just dropped $3500 on a Giant but would also consider a carbon 29er from ebay.

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dictatorsaurus
    Considering the high failure rate of Fisher frames, if you value your teeth, I wouldn't ride a Trek either...
    +1, based only on friends i know who have treks, they have 100% failure rate. everyone i know who ownes a trek is on their 2nd or 3rd trek, some their 4th. and i dont know anyone who has broken a frame that is not a trek.

    ill say this though, with the trek your pretty much garunteed a new frame when you break your trek.
    Quote Originally Posted by HamfisT
    I understand that engineering has value in and of itself. But in the end, it's still just a pile of aluminum tubes.

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Live
    Crock statement. Most cracks that I have seen reported were cracks at the TT/ST junction, a few on the chainstays/swingarms. Nothing in the HT area that I have seen. Nothing "catastrophic" where teeth were in peril either, though there may have been a few.
    G
    Years ago I had a pre-wallyworld Mongoose carbon fiber bike and that sucker snapped right in half about 2 " behind the HT on the TT and DT... only thing holding the front end to the bike were the cables

  32. #132
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    2 year warranty, it will probably cost more in shipping to send it back then it will be worth

    As everyone is speculating I'm assuming these frames are made in the same factory as one of the bigger name brands. The Chinese pull this card all the time from Apple products to high-end purses.

    Personally i dont need another frame right now but I look forward to hearing feedback from someone that finally pulls the trigger on one. If consumers dont care about the sticker brand on their bike this could be a huge alternative for 29er fans!

  33. #133
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    These frames have a warranty. You will get a receipt and when/if it breaks they will replace it. I have talked to Jenny at Hing-Fu and she is very helpful. I would trust they would replace the frame if it broke.

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by nick d
    +1, based only on friends i know who have treks, they have 100% failure rate. everyone i know who ownes a trek is on their 2nd or 3rd trek, some their 4th. and i dont know anyone who has broken a frame that is not a trek.

    ill say this though, with the trek your pretty much garunteed a new frame when you break your trek.
    That's funny. I don't know about the more recent offerings from Trek, but back in the mid to late '90's their carbon held up great. I beat on a Y-bike for about four years and it never broke. Ironically, I broke the next three aluminum bikes I owned (Jamis, Tomac, Cannondale), and none of them saw a quarter of the seat time and abuse that old Y bike did. The suspension design sucked, but the frame itself held up fine.

  35. #135
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    i'm chinese..i know my peoples who's know peoples from peoples to peoples and all of people....go chinese peoples,yeehawww!!!

    JK
    i'm a full time bikeacholic also an workaholic and part time alcoholic.

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipV
    That's funny. I don't know about the more recent offerings from Trek, but back in the mid to late '90's their carbon held up great. I beat on a Y-bike for about four years and it never broke. Ironically, I broke the next three aluminum bikes I owned (Jamis, Tomac, Cannondale), and none of them saw a quarter of the seat time and abuse that old Y bike did. The suspension design sucked, but the frame itself held up fine.
    18 years on my Trek 8300
    still going....

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot
    Yeah, I'm thinking that for under $500, I'll roll the dice on that one. I'm sure they are plenty durable. They're probably not terribly refined in the ride quality department, or the lightest thing out there.
    Agreed (assumptively), but you see, that's where I get "irked". If i'm buying a carbon frame then i'm expecting "carbon attributes". If it's carbon that's gonna ride like steel then, imho, it's not worth the time/money. That's a point of vanity I can't subscribe to.

    Want? Yes!
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  38. #138
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    Well according to the multiple threads on Road Bike Review about the generic road frames, these carbon fibre frames ride like carbon fibre frames funnily enough.

    Many very positive reviews given to the generic road frames and carbon road wheels.

  39. #139
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    21" version of the HF frame will supposedly be available in about 3 months.

  40. #140
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    well, true

    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTO
    Agreed (assumptively), but you see, that's where I get "irked". If i'm buying a carbon frame then i'm expecting "carbon attributes". If it's carbon that's gonna ride like steel then, imho, it's not worth the time/money. That's a point of vanity I can't subscribe to.

    Want? Yes!
    Need? No!
    More info? Must have!
    but I can tell you, if the frame is 2.7 pounds, it won't ride like steel. If anything, it will ride like a low rent alu frame. Zero compliance... Hard like an aluminum baseball bat. For my purposes, that is okay. I'm really looking for a weight weenie racerboy bike to fill out my stable. I'm looking for a gofast hammertime bike without much regard to all day comfort. I'm looking for a bike that will get me up the long 4 mile Skyline climb out of Sea Otter as fast as possible.

    Bonus points for having some vibration damping like a good carbon frame and not being too noodely.

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broseph
    If it is a matter of putting down an extra $300 or $400 for a full warranty, then the Chinese deal just seems less worth the risk.

    I think you should report to the DH/FR forum and take a look at how Specialized is treating a friend of mine on a broken SX trail. He was denied a warranty because his bike left the ground. An AM/FR frame that wasn't warrantied because it was used the way it was meant to be used



    So perhaps you'll forgive me if I simply don't put a lot of faith in some of these manufacturers and their warranties. At least if you break a Chinese carbon frame and they don't warranty it you aren't out several grand to replace it.
    Ocala Mountain Bike Association - www.omba.org

  42. #142
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    if there is a difference between

    http://www.e-hongfu-bikes.com
    HF-053-17,5 of (29er)

    and

    http://www.gotobike.com.cn/
    29HE MTB753

    Weight of 17.5" frame?

    has somebody already bought the frame?

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim311
    I think you should report to the DH/FR forum and take a look at how Specialized is treating a friend of mine on a broken SX trail. He was denied a warranty because his bike left the ground. An AM/FR frame that wasn't warrantied because it was used the way it was meant to be used

    So perhaps you'll forgive me if I simply don't put a lot of faith in some of these manufacturers and their warranties. At least if you break a Chinese carbon frame and they don't warranty it you aren't out several grand to replace it.
    First of all, I'm NOT buying a Specialized(not that I have anything against the Big S, other than their prices). And to use one isolated case to make a broad generalization about mainstream bicycle company's warranty policies is a little silly.

    Second, I even posted the information that Hong Fu DOES offer a warranty. I have no reason to say that Hong Fu would not make good on on a warranty claim, but compared to a major brand with a large distribution network in the states, I'm willing to bet the big brand will be a smoother process most of the time.
    Last edited by Broseph; 12-17-2010 at 10:41 AM.

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt
    You have to contact the manufacturer and deal direct.

    With one click, you pay for the item and shipping to your house. Your payment is held by alibaba in escrow until you receive the item. When it arrives, if it's what you ordered and in good shape, you authorize alibaba to release the escrow. If there is a problem, alibaba has procedures to address that.
    Have you (or anyone else here) dealt direct with a manufacturer or supplier without using an escrow payment service? Some of the suppliers on alibaba.com offer other manufacturers bikes are an pretty attractive (fell off the truck/boat?) price. I found something I'd like to purchase but the supplier wants me to pay them directly (in Hong Kong) via Western Union (first alarm bell) and say they can't do escrow through alibaba (second alarm bell). I sent alibaba a question regarding the company but it's feels sketchy. Any input? This is completely new to me.
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  45. #145
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    Go with your gut on that one.

  46. #146
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    Yeah, sounds like a scam, and probably is.

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxwe11
    Yeah, sounds like a scam, and probably is.
    Yeah, I was just trying to find the "too good to be true" line and this is probably over it. I did contact alibaba and asked them both about the company and their reluctance to do escrow. I'll see what they have to say about it too.
    "I'll disintegrate over time if I expect my body to try to keep up with my mind" -BM

    Race, Rocks or Road...Just Ride

  48. #148
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    Paypal or some other escrow only. If they're legit they'll do it that way. I'd only use Western Union if I was sending a relative money. It's one step away from mailing cash in an envelope.

    When I bought my chinese frame I used Paypal, and it was only because tons of others have bought from the same place with great results.

    My Chinese road frame is pretty damn nice I have to say.

    -Steve in NJ

  49. #149
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    Steve where in NJ?

    Do you have a link to your frame?

  50. #150
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    Whippany, near Morristown.

    Best link I can find from the mfr site is http://dengfu.en.alibaba.com/product...rbon_fork.html

    I got an FM015 frame & Fork, regular seatpost style, headset, 3 derailleur hangers for $420 or so shipped from China.

    *Tons* of info and pictures from other people on roadbikereview.com. I dealt with "Mina" from Deng-Fu. Pretty easy to deal with, even with her semi-broken english. Didn't jerk me around, the only issue I had is I'm pretty sure she did her math wrong and charged me ~$100 too little. Everything came nice, packaged nice, etc.

    If anyone in NJ wants to see the frame, I don't mind showing it off.

    When you deal with these companies you basically ask what you need and they'll give you a price. They typically have a 800 frame a week minimum order restriction or something crazy like that. They have no issue selling just a frame. Shipping is usually expensive so tack on all the extras while you're purchasing. Extras are dirt cheap. I think my derailleur hangers were $2 a piece. Headset was $10.

    I don't know how these carbon frames work but I highly suggest buying the headset. I used mine but it's extremely helpful in figuring out which one to buy. The road frames use the campagnolo standard, which is a bit weird. If you spend the $10 you can then match up whatever fancy one you want to use to it, much easier than figuring out looking at the frame.

    -Steve in NJ

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