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  1. #26
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    If someone orders a 17.5 let me know how it is!!
    I'm the kind of person you need to keep your eye on or I'll wander off into the woods and forget to come back...

  2. #27
    master blaster
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    seriously **** china
    tiawan i your on a budget, usa of you know whats up.
    otherwise your bummed.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnee
    The future is slave labor, destruction of the environment due to crappy manufacturing practices, and elimination of the middle class?

    Well, gosh darn it, I guess that makes me a hippy.
    Slave labor? Ever been to China? Fantastic working conditions they ain't, but calling it slave labor is pretty Godwin of you. Anyway, America's destroying the middle class just fine on its own- silly jingoistic anti-Chinese sentiments are ridiculous. Your allegation of crappy manufacturing processes is best addressed roughly quoting something I saw somewhere else on mtbr: your elite snobby custom frame builder has made maybe five thousand frames in his lifetime; the little Chinese lady who built my frame made five thousand last month. If practice makes perfect, perfect is made in China.


    Quote Originally Posted by veloreality
    seriously****china
    tiawan i your on a budget, usa of you know whats up.
    otherwise your bummed.
    Hate to break it to you, but plenty of stuff with "made in Taiwan" printed on it was actually made in China. They see Taiwan as an irascible Chinese child so marketing their stuff as Taiwan made doesn't bother them.

    This is probably in the wrong forum, or even on the wrong url, but China isn't going to become democratic overnight. Anti-Chinese consumer policy serves no purpose but to alienate the new industrial powerhouse of the world. Change takes time, especially with a culture like the Chinese have.
    Last edited by johnnypecans; 08-06-2010 at 09:23 PM.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by OdinOrion
    Not all carbon is created equally. With that said, they claim to use Toray, a company that is viewed in high regard on the composite industry. The actual cost of the amount of raw material needed to create a carbon frame is not that great. I have always had a bit of a hard time understanding the justification for the high dollar amounts builders charge for carbon frames, or carbon anything for that matter. Still, hand layup can be time consuming, and we all know that labor remains inexpensive in China.
    ?
    agree with everything you said except cost of chinese labor,is getting higher every year at a pace of 25% a year. chinese workers still making about a buck an hour though.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you'll crash.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by schnee
    The future is slave labor, destruction of the environment due to crappy manufacturing practices, and elimination of the middle class?

    Well, gosh darn it, I guess that makes me a hippy.
    I hope you dont have an Ipod, HDTV or DVD player in your house. Thats where all that stuff comes from too.

    I have been a MTBR poster since 1998. I am so tired and fed up with the whole boutique BS that is churned out here. It is even dumber than the Motobecane spammers. Ok? I get it. I see what you are trying to say. I am fed up and just plain worn out from getting my chain yanked by piss poor bike builders, the whole LBS business model and their crappy employees. Buying a generic carbon frame is right up my alley. Perfect. No more hype. No more stupidity. No more phone tag.

    I suspect many others feel the same way. Life is too short to spend so much time dealing with all the petty crapola and crappy people that call the bike industry home. Seriously. Is there any other group of people more flaky and worthless than the middlemen who work in the bike industry?

  6. #31
    Don't be a sheep
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    Quote Originally Posted by veloreality
    seriously **** china
    tiawan i your on a budget, usa of you know whats up.
    otherwise your bummed.
    Get your facts straight, most Taiwanese carbon manufacturers have move production to mainland China but still keep offices in Taiwan. So even if you buy Taiwanese you're probably getting Chinese made. by the way most of the bikes you own were manufactured in China, all except the Moots and Victoria.
    "Do not touch the trim"

  7. #32
    TR
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    Quote Originally Posted by veloreality
    seriously **** china
    tiawan i your on a budget, usa of you know whats up.
    otherwise your bummed.
    My Tallboy is proudly sporting a Made in China sticker on the underside of the DT.

    Yep, horrible build quality there.........NOT!!!!!!!!!!!

  8. #33
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    Chinese carbon 29er

    Hi guys!

    http://loiceyu.en.made-in-china.com/...e-MTB753-.html

    As described by seller:
    17.5" only
    ETT 592
    $500
    BB30, Post mount, 1.5"-1.125" headset

    Geometry: http://forum.ixbt.com/post.cgi?id=attach:71:759:3177:1

    Does anybody knows anything about it? Is there any owner of this?

  9. #34
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    You sure that's a 29er?


  10. #35
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    Oops, sorry. Fixed, see link in first post.

    Chinese Carbon 29er

    please close this topic.
    Last edited by aphlux; 08-07-2010 at 06:45 AM.

  11. #36
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    old news...
    Chinese Carbon 29er

    why not check 1st before creating duplicate threads?

  12. #37
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    Is it exactly like a Niner or Specialized? No. Maybe similar, but so are a lot of 29er style bikes.

    Two things that are constants in the bike industry:

    1. Designs get copied / ripped off all the time.
    2. Asian / 3rd world mfg will dominate the market.

    Does Giant produce anything that is a truely new idea? Or do they just take ideas from the companies they mfg for? In the end, is the quality "bad"?

    The fact is, the bike industry has been dominated by Asian mfg for decades. Workers in the US are too expensive and frankly, the Asians have been doing it so long, they have figured out how to drive cost out of the product and still keep high quality levels. The cost of setting up a brand new shop in the US to compete is too high. And, there is no valid reason to do so.

    Other than the custom market, and the titanium market... it's thin for US mfg's. Over the next 36 months, the mass-produced titanium market will be under a lot of pressure and we'll see at least one major US mfg either close, or start outsourcing their TI mfg to China.

    In the end, you can grab this carbon frame from Asia. The only thing you are missing is recourse if there is an issue. Reality... most everything is from Asia anyway.

  13. #38
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
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    Chinese wages are growing actually. You guys outta read the economist, they're not at american union nonsense levels yet but they have gone up about a third for factory workers in the past couple years.

  14. #39
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    I would say there is nothing beyond superficial similarity between this and the Niner frame. Tube shapes and junctions are consistently different. The seat stays are very different. There's a missing non-drive side stay brace. The BB area is totally different. The seat tube is straight meaning that the chainstays are likely longer, and there's no internal cable routing. Once you look at it, it's hard to imagine how they could have a common origin.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    First of all, let me make it clear that I am not saying these are the same frames. Neither am I saying that they are from the same factory, but I am suggesting that they have very similar lines and it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that they could be from the same place with minor detail changes.

    No EBB on the Chinese made one? Well, it wouldn't be that big a deal to change that feature at the factory. The brace between the stays for the brake also could easily be added. Internal vs. external routing of cables is also a minor detail change.

    Could they be from the same place? They have more similarities to my eyes than not. I'm just sayin'. I could be totally wrong about this, but then again...........

    And I would also agree that the Specialized looks somewhat similar, but not as close as these two models.
    http://www.on-one.co.uk/news/product...s-in-under-1kg

    Ring a bell?

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigsj
    I would say there is nothing beyond superficial similarity between this and the Niner frame. Tube shapes and junctions are consistently different. The seat stays are very different. There's a missing non-drive side stay brace. The BB area is totally different. The seat tube is straight meaning that the chainstays are likely longer, and there's no internal cable routing. Once you look at it, it's hard to imagine how they could have a common origin.
    Exactly.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashplayer19
    I was told that the bike will be made in 16, 17.5, and 20 inches. I was also told the 16 and 20 inch frames wont be available until the end of the year. I was given a price sheet which includes everything they make, a picture showing the geometry for the 17.5 frame, and a picture of the actual frame which are below.
    If I look at the prints correctly, seems like 2.1 tyre is the biggest it would fit in the back.
    Maybe you should contact them again and ask if they can inprove that ?

  18. #43
    Glorified Hybrid Owner
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    Quote Originally Posted by apacherider
    Seriously. Is there any other group of people more flaky and worthless than the middlemen who work in the bike industry?
    One word:

    communists

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnypecans
    They see Taiwan as an irascible Chinese child ...
    Yet the world saw Taiwan as the Republic of China from 1949 to the 1970's (aka the rightful seat of the Chinese Government).

    That's the problem with Americans today...their memory is too short.

    Do I have Chinese products in my house? I know I probably do, unfortunately. You can't get away from them...for now. It won't be long that Chinese wages and shipping will cost too much and corporations will have to find a new source of cheap labor.

    If given a choice, I will gladly do business with countries that do not deny their people the most basic rights. Rights that we as Americans take for granted. Rights that we as Americans (used to) believe all men (and women) are born with...and would fight to make it so.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

  20. #45
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    So, when all of you stop buying these "boutique" bicycles from "Hippy Bike Manufacturers", who do you think is going to be engineering innovation with new bikes when you help put them out of business?

    You people are short sighted.

  21. #46
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    Skip all the political garbage talk and stick to the bike...

  22. #47
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    This is the first generic carbon 29er frame to be coming out of China, right? Anybody care to field a prediction on how long it's going to take to see a plethora of no-name carbon 29er frames to fit all our wants and needs? There's certainly no shortage of carbon road bike frames for crazy low prices on ebay.

    Quote Originally Posted by rockhound
    Yet the world saw Taiwan as the Republic of China from 1949 to the 1970's (aka the rightful seat of the Chinese Government).
    How is that relevant to the discussion of modern China?
    That's the problem with Americans today...their memory is too short.

    Do I have Chinese products in my house? I know I probably do, unfortunately.
    you're fooling yourself with "probably." Even things that say "made in the USA" are assembled out of parts shipped here from China. The majority of the modern things you own were made in China.
    You can't get away from them...for now. It won't be long that Chinese wages and shipping will cost too much and corporations will have to find a new source of cheap labor.

    If given a choice, I will gladly do business with countries that do not deny their people the most basic rights. Rights that we as Americans take for granted. Rights that we as Americans (used to) believe all men (and women) are born with...and would fight to make it so.
    The problem is that stonewalling a political regime you don't agree with doesn't change the regime. Has it worked with Cuba? No. China, however, is seeing steady (if slow) improvements in human rights as a direct result of their business relationship with the West. To cut off the (mutually vital) link would be to guarantee a sharp decline in human rights in China.

    Quote Originally Posted by XCARTELX
    So, when all of you stop buying these "boutique" bicycles from "Hippy Bike Manufacturers", who do you think is going to be engineering innovation with new bikes when you help put them out of business?

    You people are short sighted.
    Stop buying? I've never bought a boutique frame, nobody's losing business because I prefer to spend my money more frugally. There will always be a market for custom frames; you are failing to see the big picture. Do you think boutique builders have some giant market share? I've never even seen a handbuilt frame on my local trails.

  23. #48
    saddlemeat
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    Quote Originally Posted by XCARTELX
    So, when all of you stop buying these "boutique" bicycles from "Hippy Bike Manufacturers", who do you think is going to be engineering innovation with new bikes when you help put them out of business?

    You people are short sighted.
    ...or not.

    Much of the innovation is of questionable value for actual riding over time, considering the exponential price increases that accompany it. Most real innovation comes from the independent equipment manufacturers imo.
    A Useful Bear is a handy thing.

  24. #49
    SSolo
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphlux
    Oops, sorry. Fixed, see link in first post.

    Chinese Carbon 29er

    please close this topic.
    CLose this topic??? Whatever.

    These frames are very intelesting.
    Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life son...

  25. #50
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    My Fisher frame was sporting a MADE IN CHINA sticker on it when I bought it. So I'm gonna have to say I'm still gonna order one.

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