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  1. #1
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    Carbon Tallboy vs Jet 9 RDO?

    Anyone have first hand saddle time in both? Thoughts?

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    Got to ride a carbon Tall Boy a couple of weeks ago... can't be technical with the feedback but for the short ride on it,
    - the frame was light (of course) but felt solid
    - going over some obstacles -- roots, going on- off- sidewalks, those little blocks on parking slots -- to check how the VPP feels like, great! the VPP suspension just absorbed whatever hits the bike got and it was quite a confidence builder. the bike just feels stable. (I managed to try out a Blur LT2 and the climbing on the VPP was quite good. If there was any bob happening, it was hardly noticeable and that Blur was set up for a lighter rider)
    - the rider position was on the upright side, but i felt centered on the bike and I can imagine this would be fun on a flowy, twisty, rooty, rocky single track. Wish I had more time on it, but it was a pretty new bike, and I didn't think the owner would appreciate me riding it like it was mine...
    Never gotten on the RDO but that is one sexy bike...! My basis for comparison, then? I ride a Sultan DWL.
    Hope that helps... cheers!

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    Ride which one fits you best. They are both super nice... I think the RDO wins the style competition though.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by h2otaco View Post
    Ride which one fits you best. They are both super nice... I think the RDO wins the style competition though.
    Ill just head on down to my LBS and take them both out for some trail use

    Im j/k btw, I live in FL and doubt there are either one inside the state

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    If you live near Sarasota you can take a spin on my XL tallboy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jfkbike2 View Post
    If you live near Sarasota you can take a spin on my XL tallboy.
    Thats Kind of you but a little far

    Thing is I already own one of the two, but I really just wanted some unbiased feedback from both sides of the coin. I can understand everyones hesitations in posting opinions on one or he other tho...

  7. #7
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    I live in Miami, There are a few RDOs out in the trails, and I am on a Medium Tallboy.
    I ofcourse have to be slightly bias towards the Tallboy because I own one, but I know how VPP stands up against the CVA on the RDO down here..and some other trails..have spent time on both back to back, but have not had a chance to ride a RDO. To me the VPP is tuned better for compliance along with pedalibility. The CYA (Niner) isn't quite as intuitive in a short travel setting (XC), the RIP9 rides completely different. It suspension in a short travel puts more emphasis on pedalibility over compliance. Yes it does pick up bumps and dips, but not as intuitively as the VPP. Here in Florida there isn't much climbing, and more roots and off-camber sections where grip combined with roll efficiency is key. Because the CYA does not pick up on bumps quite as well as the VPP, the grip isn't going to be as good popping over all the roots on the CYA, but the CYA worked better on buff singletrack where it didn't have to react so much to the small stuff.

    This comparison may be dated because this was on a Jet9 with 90mm travel, and the RDO does have more, I think 100 like the Tallboy.

    I run my tallboy with a 120mm fork like many others. It is supremely confident on descents, pedals great and confort is top notch..best I have ever felt on any bike! The Tallboy can accept a 140mm w/o warranty issues..but I feel the 120 is the sweetspot. Something that is really nice about the Tallboy and all Santa Cruz bikes are the suspension warranty. The suspension hardware is guaranteed for life. No other company does this, and those are the first things likely to fail on a frame. There is also a no fault crash replacement warranty, and after that warranty term, the cost of a replacement will be at cost. Yes the Niner does have a better initial warranty, but only a 1 yr. warranty on suspension hardware, and if you haven't seen the frames up close, all the bearing dustcaps are exposed which means more potential for water, dirt, dust and grime to enter the bearing causing premature wear.

    I bought mine over a year ago, and have had it to Arizona and rode every where there in that state, Texas, North Carolina, Michigan, Arkansas (syllamo), Iowa, Wisconsin, Tennessee, and Georgia. I have close to 2800mi on it and it has been problem free and a pleasure to ride!
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    The Jet9 has 80mm of travel and rides differently than the RDO. You can't judge the RDO by the Jet or the RIP.

    I recently built an RDO for a friend who is the same size as me. The large RDO is nearly a perfect match in size to my XL Tallboy and the build is essentially identical with 140mm Leftys converted to 120mm travel on each. Same seatposts, saddles, stems and bars. Most of the weight difference seems to be from different wheels and tires. My Tallboy has a Push'ed RT3 so I don't compare the two since I am not riding what others would get. The bikes seem similar enough to me that a different shock tune could make all the difference.

    The Tallboy has a lower BB so I use a 165mm crank rather than the 175mm we put on the RDO. The short crank is not a riding problem but it reduces your crank choices. If were buying again that might sway me over to the RDO side considering I've been happy with Niner CVAs in the past. It's not enough to convince me to purchase over again, though.

    I can't say I was entirely pleased with the direct mount FD on the RDO since it lacks adjustability. The head tube was literally as tall as it could be in the large frame and still take the standard Lefty. Looks like they were designed for each other, actually.

  9. #9
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    I hear a lot of Tallboy guys talk about pedal strikes with such a low BB, but does the actual .2 - .5 of an inch under others make that big of a difference?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace5high View Post
    I hear a lot of Tallboy guys talk about pedal strikes with such a low BB, but does the actual .2 - .5 of an inch under others make that big of a difference?
    My Tallboy with a 165mm crank has about 5" of pedal clearance with ATACs and 2.1" tires. Sag and suspension action eat into that. In that context, a 1/2 inch is pretty significant but it's all relative to how and where you ride. And RDO with a 175mm crank ends up the same.

    The Tallboy's BB height is low but not lower than some of its competition. The Rockstar is even lower, though they are raising it in the redesign. The Pivot 429 is the same.

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    Yeah, I suppose it all depends on riding style and trail, Ive got about 5.5" clearance on my Canzo with 120mm Fork and 175mm crank...

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    I have had pedal strikes, but it was never from low center in the bike travel. It was always in situations where I couldn't plane out the pedals on a rock/root section. After years of riding platform, its instinct to plane out the pedals (3 and 9 oclock position), and turn with the inside pedal at the 12 oclock position.

    I don't want to say that you are riding wrong, just my experience with my riding style. I ride with 175mm cranks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace5high View Post
    I hear a lot of Tallboy guys talk about pedal strikes with such a low BB, but does the actual .2 - .5 of an inch under others make that big of a difference?
    I've got a Tallboy with 175mm cranks and a 95-120mm Fox Talas fork and ride on a lot of very rocky New England trails. Pedal strikes are not a big issue unless I wind the fork down to 95mm, which I never do anymore anyway. I do advise getting a bashguard to protect the carbon around the lower suspension pivots. Great bike, my all-time favorite (but Niner makes great bikes, and I'm sure the RDO is pretty nice as well).

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    I've spent a fair amount of time on a Tallboy and I've done the same on a Jet 9. I loved how the suspension felt on both bikes with the Tallboy being stiffer and the Jet 9 being plusher and more active. Winner for me was the Jet 9. Comparing the Tallboy to the RDO, I'd take the Tallboy, mostly because the RDO is the ugliest carbon FS bike I've ever seen, IMO
    I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    I've spent a fair amount of time on a Tallboy and I've done the same on a Jet 9. I loved how the suspension felt on both bikes with the Tallboy being stiffer and the Jet 9 being plusher and more active. Winner for me was the Jet 9. Comparing the Tallboy to the RDO, I'd take the Tallboy, mostly because the RDO is the ugliest carbon FS bike I've ever seen, IMO
    Ya know... I wasnt going to say it... and im sure there are some things the RDO does great if not better than the Tallboy but I couldnt get over the looks of it either!

    Tallboy is one SEXY Beast! IMO

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    Have had my TB for over a year. Way more peddle strikes than with my prior bike. It is setup with a 120. The RDO is better looking and has a higher BB. Getting used to working around not having a higher BB. The bike is fun.
    Here's to sweat in your eye.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mudncrud View Post
    Have had my TB for over a year. Way more peddle strikes than with my prior bike. It is setup with a 120. The RDO is better looking and has a higher BB. Getting used to working around not having a higher BB. The bike is fun.
    Hum.. I suppose I could always switch to a 170 or 165mm crank if I feel I need to...

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    I'm looking at these 2 bikes also. Which one is the more efficient climber both in and out of the saddle?

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    Both great bikes, for me it comes down to trail and conditions.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbalko View Post
    I'm looking at these 2 bikes also. Which one is the more efficient climber both in and out of the saddle?
    The one that fits you the best.

    They both have a small dual-link suspension which is going to provide you with great pedaling platform. Shock setup really makes a difference...I would also go as far to say that the shock you have installed makes a difference as well. When I bought my Tallboy in 2010 I opted for the standard Rockshox Monarch RT3 after having the RP23 on my Blur. It is a somewhat stiffer shock with better initial platform, and it has a true lockout. The RP23 three Pro-Pedal (platform) modes, none of which have a true lockout. The RP23 tune also tend to sit mid travel and wallowed a bit. It never felt bad, but it also never felt perfect. The Monarch RT3 seemed to address that issue and nearly solved it.

    Because the RT3 is not an available option anymore with the Tallboy, it is an aftermarket upgrade..but the nice thing is that they can be picked up from around $200-$300 and you can actually make money by selling the RP23. I know for some...putting extra work into changing a brand new frame doesn't seem realistic....but does seriously make a difference on the bike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by marty1983 View Post
    Both great bikes, for me it comes down to trail and conditions.
    So what does each one do better than the other. I live in Colorado and the climbs can be really long here. I'm coming off a Sultan I don't like the way it bobs when I get out of the saddle and am realizing that as I age that I am doing faster and smoother trails with less hits and thatI don't want to carry an aluminum frame around anymore.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbalko View Post
    So what does each one do better than the other. I live in Colorado and the climbs can be really long here. I'm coming off a Sultan I don't like the way it bobs when I get out of the saddle and am realizing that as I age that I am doing faster and smoother trails with less hits and thatI don't want to carry an aluminum frame around anymore.
    With bikes that cost that much you really shold ride both & see what works for you.

    I have owned both the Tallboy & the RDO, I just couldn't find the love for the Tallboy,

    My Tallboy did have the RP23 on it.

    The RDO just works better for me for all the ridding that I like to do.

    I felt that for me when climbing ruff tec sections that the RDO was better.

    Although there was plenty of stuff that Tallboy did well ,I can;t think of a single place were I liked the Tallboy more than the RDO.

    So each to there own.

    As for comments like the leaver on the shock is much easyer to reach on the Tallboy, Well that's a good thing because you need it on the Tallboy were as most with the RDO have never felt the need. The bike pedals well enough with out it.

    Oh & the other one I like is that the Tallboy looks better than the RDO ( I like the look of the RDO but when I first saw it I wasn't keen either ) But really If you want to buy a bike for looks well then go for it but I would always choose funtion 1st.

    Just my 2 c from someone that has owned both.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbalko View Post
    So what does each one do better than the other. I live in Colorado and the climbs can be really long here. I'm coming off a Sultan I don't like the way it bobs when I get out of the saddle and am realizing that as I age that I am doing faster and smoother trails with less hits and thatI don't want to carry an aluminum frame around anymore.
    To my understanding the CVA does have a slight advantage in pedaling efficiency over the VPP. Most of those who speak of a "fellable" difference tried the VPP with an RP23. I was not super happy with pedaling efficacy with the RP23 on the Tallboy, though it was still pretty great. The VPP however is designed with antisquat characteristics that increase climbing ability. I find this particularly noticeable when climbing out of saddle. It was a very unusual feeling compared a more "squatty" feel of a four bar single pivot when I first got on the TB.

    Also, considering the super short Chainstay on the TB I find it to be more controllable and maneuverable when climbing which is a great plus. I cant speak for the RDO but it does have a longer chainstay and therefor cant have some of the great characteristics that the 17.5" chainstay does on the TB

    Both fantastic bikes, good luck
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    pictures please!!

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    OK here is my 2 cents. I demoed A RDO at Fruita Co, I road it for 4 hours, I found it very efficient and worthy of the hype. I felt it should have been stiffer in the front and would have preferred a lower BB, its wheelbase makes it very stable on descents. I bought a Tallboy C after that demo and after a couple rides here's what I can say. The Tallboy has stiffer front end, slightly less stable on descents, I think because of the shorter wheelbase, on the other hand the Tallboy has a much more agile feel to it. I prefer the lower BB of the Tallboy. As far as pedaling they are both outstanding compared to the old four bar stuff I have owned. I also have a Giant Anthem 29er and can say it might be the best of the lot, I do find it just a little whippy in front end [the new carbon version should corrected this] also but at half the cost of the others the Anthem is the hands down winner. For me, single track and fun, the Tallboy. For more serious stuff like weekend club racing maybe the RDO. With that said I really am not sure either the Tallboy or the RDO has anything over on the Anthem for any purpose.
    Last edited by sunnyside; 05-26-2012 at 06:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
    OK here is my 2 cents. I demoed A RDO at Fruita Co, I road it for 4 hours, I found it very efficient and worthy of the hype. I felt it should have been stiffer in the front and would have preferred a lower BB, its wheelbase makes it very stable on descents. I bought a Tallboy C after that demo and after a couple rides here's what I can say. The Tallboy has stiffer front end, slightly less stable on descents, I think because of the shorter wheelbase, on the other hand the Tallboy has a much more agile feel to it. I prefer the lower BB of the Tallboy. As far as pedaling they are both outstanding compared to the old four bar stuff I have owned. I also have a Giant Anthem 29er and can say it might be the best of the lot, yet it it just a little whippy in front end [the new carbon version should corrected this] also but at half the cost the Anthem is the hands down winner.
    An Alu Anthem a winner over both the RDO and TB...? Common now... Its not even in the same league
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace5high View Post
    An Alu Anthem a winner over both the RDO and TB...? Common now... Its not even in the same league


    Really? Just because it is not made of carpet fiber?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace5high View Post
    An Alu Anthem a winner over both the RDO and TB...? Common now... Its not even in the same league
    THAT'S WHY I AM SO CONCERNED

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Really? Just because it is not made of carpet fiber?
    Um... Yeah pretty much


    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
    THAT'S WHY I AM SO CONCERNED
    Shouldnt sweat it man... Some people prefer the feel of certain bikes. Muzz loves his RDO even tho he liked the TB and rode one for awhile. With all the recent mods to correct what I felt were the only real short comings on the TB Im very happy with it.

    In my original tallboy write up I pointed out the pedal strikes and a bit of wallow over half rear suspension travel during hard cuts and braking.

    The change to the 170mm crank and RT3 corrected both of these issues wonderfully and I couldn't be happier with the TB now. The fact that SC is using 142 rears in the standard TB is another plus even over my version.
    Last edited by Ace5high; 05-26-2012 at 07:28 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace5high View Post
    Um... Yeah pretty much


    Nice to know how how little knowledge you really have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace5high View Post
    An Alu Anthem a winner over both the RDO and TB...? Common now... Its not even in the same league



    Your ignorance is showing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbalko View Post
    So what does each one do better than the other. I live in Colorado and the climbs can be really long here. I'm coming off a Sultan I don't like the way it bobs when I get out of the saddle and am realizing that as I age that I am doing faster and smoother trails with less hits and thatI don't want to carry an aluminum frame around anymore.
    Ok, you must have a TNT Sultan? The DW Sultan is as good as pedaling gets from what I have heard, the downside is the 7 + pound frame. The Giant Anthem frame comes in at a stellar 5.3 lbs in alloy and could be the best platform available, just sayin all aluminum is not created equal as for carbon

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Nice to know how how little knowledge you really have.
    Bottom line is its not comparing apples to apples. A common misconception about Carbon fiber is that the tradeoff is durability for weight. Those of us who know better, know not only is thats not true but doesn't scratch the surface...

    What some dont realize is that Carbon Fiber has many more advantages including durability. CF doesn't fatigue the way that Alu or other metals do but also non-corrosive! You can repair CF, It is lighter, more compliant. Carbon fiber provides better shock absorption and far superior vibration damping. Monocoque construction of frames like TB is an advantage over metal and the possible stress cracks that can occur with welded joints.

    Another huge advantage building frames from CF is that unlike isotropic materials (Aluminum Steel) that has the same mechanical properties identical in all directions; Composites like CF are anisotropic and they can easily be made to satisfy virtually any mechanical property without changing the overall structural shape of the part. In other words CF can be used to make tubes thinner and lighter yet still retain more strength and stiffness in any specific configuration, therefor being able to apply rigidity where its desired and give where its desired.
    I do all my own stunts, but never intentionally...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace5high View Post
    Bottom line is its not comparing apples to apples. A common misconception about Carbon fiber is that the tradeoff is durability for weight. Those of us who know better, know not only is thats not true but doesn't scratch the surface...

    What some dont realize is that Carbon Fiber has many more advantages including durability. CF doesn't fatigue the way that Alu or other metals do but also non-corrosive! You can repair CF, It is lighter, more compliant. Carbon fiber provides better shock absorption and far superior vibration damping. Monocoque construction of frames like TB is an advantage over metal and the possible stress cracks that can occur with welded joints.

    Another huge advantage building frames from CF is that unlike isotropic materials (Aluminum Steel) that has the same mechanical properties identical in all directions; Composites like CF are anisotropic and they can easily be made to satisfy virtually any mechanical property without changing the overall structural shape of the part. In other words CF can be used to make tubes thinner and lighter yet still retain more strength and stiffness in any specific configuration, therefor being able to apply rigidity where its desired and give where its desired.



    Thank Dog for Google because you wouldn't have a reply otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roadie scum View Post
    Thank Dog for Google because you wouldn't have a reply otherwise.
    I'd prefer to thank my best bud who's an NDT tech for the aerospace and power industries... You might need to google that...
    I do all my own stunts, but never intentionally...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace5high View Post
    I'd prefer to thank my best bud who's an NDT tech for the aerospace and power industries... You might need to google that...


    Google parrot. You know , like parroting what you have heard, or second hand knowledge. That is what you bring to any conversation, second hand. When you have first hand knowledge of something bike related, come back and join the conversation, until then keep your uninformed opinions to yourself and stop presenting yourself as some one who knows anything. Are you sure your not dremer03? You sure post like him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Nice to know how how little knowledge you really have.
    Wow was this whole exchange really necessary?
    If I had a black light this place would look like a Jackson Pollock painting.

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    I would have to agree that in my experience, the Giant Anthem rides better than both the Tallboy and the Niner CVA, (I haven't had the opportunity to ride the RDO). Bonus, now the Anthem comes in carbon.
    I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah

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    Three frame failures with carbon fiber. I've had frame failures with other bikes but usually it's after two years of ownership; not less than six months. I'm not a CF hater but I feel the current CF offerings are for light trail use only.

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    Hey DrDon, could you share some details on your frame failures?

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    Yes, please do share.

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    No one's come in and suggested the Scalpel yet? If you plan on racing (you're looking at the Jet..) might want to give some thought to that. I'm in love with mine!
    Quote Originally Posted by sickspeed16
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    My Tallboy's seat tube cracked twice and the seat tube on my Scalpel "ovalized". I'm 5'10" and have a 35+in inseam. I run a lot of post. I weigh 225lb. A Nomad type frame is more suitable for me. Both bikes ride great. Santa Cruz's customer service was very good. In fact I know of a rider who broke his Talboy twice that eventually bought another after selling the original.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace5high View Post
    I hear a lot of Tallboy guys talk about pedal strikes with such a low BB, but does the actual .2 - .5 of an inch under others make that big of a difference?
    Yes it does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
    My Tallboy's seat tube cracked twice and the seat tube on my Scalpel "ovalized". I'm 5'10" and have a 35+in inseam. I run a lot of post. I weigh 225lb. A Nomad type frame is more suitable for me. Both bikes ride great. Santa Cruz's customer service was very good. In fact I know of a rider who broke his Talboy twice that eventually bought another after selling the original.
    Wow thanks for the feedback. I've been on the fence on purchasing the TBc vs TB. I'm a big boy like 270 Lbs (NFL size) and I rented a TallBoy aluminum today. Really dig the bike and suits me fine. I understand the carbon advantages and I'm sure if I got one it would treat me fine. Sure I may have the same issues as you (not sure if I will run lot of post) and if I have to take the risk of repairing it in a few years then I gotta deal with it then should I make the purchase soon. I know aluminum and steel as that is all my previous bikes so I can't rule out the aluminum TB. But I do understand people say the ride is a bit different on the CF frames with impact. I don't race and ride on the weekends and really don't think the lighter weight will make a difference (I could be totally wrong) but should I get the TBc or the TB I'm sure I'll be stoked!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
    My Tallboy's seat tube cracked twice and the seat tube on my Scalpel "ovalized". I'm 5'10" and have a 35+in inseam. I run a lot of post. I weigh 225lb. A Nomad type frame is more suitable for me. Both bikes ride great. Santa Cruz's customer service was very good. In fact I know of a rider who broke his Talboy twice that eventually bought another after selling the original.
    I too have heard a couple of guys that had problems with their tallboy after warranty ran out. Went to LBS, LBS called SC, and no problem they took care of the customer even after warranty. I've read this about SC doing this many times, to me that is good customer service. Seems they want customers for life. I've heard of other bigger companies, which did not care to follow the same path and lost the customer for life.

    As far as the Scalpel goes, yeah cool bike, but quite expensive. One could build or order a Tallboy or Niner RDO for less and save the difference to get some good wheels and hubs. I would put the Tallboy carbon and RDO over Scalpel anyday just because the value, more bang for buck. Not to mention they look better too, the alloy 4 scalpel is their best looking paint scheme. Not sure about Niner's customer service, as far as for racing only the RDO, what, you can't race a Tallboy? Thats absurd. Tallboy is just as capable as the RDO, furthermore, I would say the Tallboy and RDO can handle almost anything.

    I would not say the Tallboy looks better than the RDO, I think the RDO looks really outstanding and is a piece of art, it looks fast standing still. Color options on their carbon bikes are better too. I think the Black and Red Tallboy carbon is a sick looking bike too, but I give the edge to the RDO, I have no bias even though I am anxiously awaiting my new Tallboy on Wednesday. I'm no expert, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder, just my 2 cents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    I would have to agree that in my experience, the Giant Anthem rides better than both the Tallboy and the Niner CVA, (I haven't had the opportunity to ride the RDO). Bonus, now the Anthem comes in carbon.
    Can you elaborate? What style of riding?

    BTW - Sunnyside knew I was only joking about the anthem x... hence the smiley faces Too bad mtbr's two resident trolls couldn't figure that out.

    Quote Originally Posted by RipRoar View Post
    Yes it does.
    Confirmed

    After switching to a 170mm crank it wasn't as bad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    I would have to agree that in my experience, the Giant Anthem rides better than both the Tallboy. . .now the Anthem comes in carbon.
    Yeah, please unpack this more. In what way? What time did you spend on a Tallboy Carbon and what riding did you do on it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 29er Kid View Post
    Wow thanks for the feedback. I've been on the fence on purchasing the TBc vs TB. I'm a big boy like 270 Lbs (NFL size) and I rented a TallBoy aluminum today. Really dig the bike and suits me fine. I understand the carbon advantages and I'm sure if I got one it would treat me fine. Sure I may have the same issues as you (not sure if I will run lot of post) and if I have to take the risk of repairing it in a few years then I gotta deal with it then should I make the purchase soon. I know aluminum and steel as that is all my previous bikes so I can't rule out the aluminum TB. But I do understand people say the ride is a bit different on the CF frames with impact. I don't race and ride on the weekends and really don't think the lighter weight will make a difference (I could be totally wrong) but should I get the TBc or the TB I'm sure I'll be stoked!!!
    I think you should go carbon if you dont mind spending the extra funds. The TB is Santa Cruz's all time most popular frame. Out of all the many carbon TB's sold a few have had issues, that is just the statistical laws of any popular item. Main thing is that they are not known for any significant or regular failures.

    Im sure the Alu version rides well but its the stiffness of the carbon that I really love, Carbon IMO

    One last note on CF, Although its relatively new to the cycling industry keep in mind its been used for a LONG time in Marine and Aircraft with good reason. I was mocking up hulls with the stuff over a decade ago and it was nothing more than common place... Its no fad, but we will likely continue to see improvement in the cycling industry for some time.
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    MTBR member TIGERREYES said this in the Diamondback section --> "I have a Sortie 29er 3. Also have a 2011 Anthem X 29er 1. I love the Anthem because it's very light for a 29er but I find myself always wanting to ride the Sortie 29er 3, since I have a lot more fun with that one. It's awesome on climbs and it's just impressive on descends I just feel that I can throw whatever the trail gives and it won't break compared to always being a bit cautious with the Anthem thinking that a big bad jump might break it. I love both bikes very much but if I had to choose right now, I would go for the Sortie 3 since it's more of my riding style (I don't race) and I can't really notice the extra weight when riding."

    I post this because I know the Anthem is nice but as I've heard many times, and this is one of them, it's just not as fun as other bikes, including the RDO and Tallboy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace5high View Post
    I think you should go carbon if you dont mind spending the extra funds. The TB is Santa Cruz's all time most popular frame. Out of all the many carbon TB's sold a few have had issues, that is just the statistical laws of any popular item. Main thing is that they are not known for any significant or regular failures.

    Im sure the Alu version rides well but its the stiffness of the carbon that I really love, Carbon IMO
    Here's the kicker. The LBS has the 2011 and 2012 TBc. They have the 2012 TBc marked down by 10% (I think it's a mistake) but if they can honor that price then I just may pull the trigger on Tuesday...

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    I don't think its a mistake. Ask what rear you are getting if its the new one or the old one. New is 12 X 142.

    Also there was a QC issue with the RDO may have been fixed now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    I post this because I know the Anthem is nice but as I've heard many times, and this is one of them, it's just not as fun as other bikes, including the RDO and Tallboy.


    You have riden how many of these? Are you posting something you heard?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    I don't think its a mistake. Ask what rear you are getting if its the new one or the old one. New is 12 X 142.

    Also there was a QC issue with the RDO may have been fixed now.
    Yep, good point on the 12 X 142. I'm thinking I could upgrade from the 135 x 10 later but not sure on the carbon frame.

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    I'll try here to back up my previous statement.

    I am 6'2" and 195lbs. I race xc and endurance. I suck at both. I am also a weight weenie wherever possible and I like top of the line stuff. I love carbon fiber. I work at a shop part time for kicks and I just generally like to ride bikes. I am not a hucker.

    So that's my riding style.

    I rode the Tallboy when it initially came out. It had a 100mm Fox 32 on the front and I was able to ride it for about a week so I had plenty of time to really get it set up right. I liked the bike. A lot. It rode well and was a quick climber. I did not like how much pedal feedback I got. It was a triple chainring, maybe it would be different with 2x10?

    I have a good friend who owns a pimped out Jet 9. I steal it whenever I can. It is one of the best riding bikes I have ever had the pleasure of throwing a leg over. For only having 80mm's of rear travel it feels like much more. That said, it never feels balanced with the front, a 100mm Reba. This is probably the best endurance bike I've ever ridden. Love it. On that, the RDO is god awful ugly. I know, function over form and blah blah blah but the bike is horrible.

    I have recently been riding a Giant Anthem X 29er. The bike is heavy and I can feel it when I lift it out of my truck. When I'm riding it though, the weight disappears. This is odd to me, because I spend so much on making bikes lighter. The rear suspension is weird in that it feels so stiff on fireroads and other tough climbs. Yet it soaks hits up right away. The bike is running a Rock Shox Monarch rear shock with a gate on it and it seems to work well. I do realize that any bike can and will benefit from this but the other two bikes were using Fox RP23's which I am very familiar with and know how to use.

    Back to back, I would choose the Maestro over the CVA and both over the VPP. Now that the Anthem comes in carbon, I'm thrilled. Mine is ordered and should be here soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29er Kid View Post
    Wow thanks for the feedback. I've been on the fence on purchasing the TBc vs TB. I'm a big boy like 270 Lbs (NFL size) and I rented a TallBoy aluminum today. Really dig the bike and suits me fine. I understand the carbon advantages and I'm sure if I got one it would treat me fine. Sure I may have the same issues as you (not sure if I will run lot of post) and if I have to take the risk of repairing it in a few years then I gotta deal with it then should I make the purchase soon. I know aluminum and steel as that is all my previous bikes so I can't rule out the aluminum TB. But I do understand people say the ride is a bit different on the CF frames with impact. I don't race and ride on the weekends and really don't think the lighter weight will make a difference (I could be totally wrong) but should I get the TBc or the TB I'm sure I'll be stoked!!!
    Ok here is my 2 c ( I'm not a Tallboy fan) but if you were going to go that way at your size I would look more towards bikes like the Tallboy LT or the Niner Rip9, They are made to be a little stronger & take a bit more of a beating & the extra travel will sock up your weight better in the ruff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    Ok here is my 2 c ( I'm not a Tallboy fan) but if you were going to go that way at your size I would look more towards bikes like the Tallboy LT or the Niner Rip9, They are made to be a little stronger & take a bit more of a beating & the extra travel will sock up your weight better in the ruff.
    Cool, thanks for your input. I found a dealer in town that demos the RIP9 so I'll give that an oppurtunuty and see how that compares to the TB. The cool thing is the LBS will have a TBLT built this week so it will give me a chance to see how it feels by riding in the parking lot but the TB was nice to ride in the hills and through the rock gardens. It should be interesting to see how the RIP9 rides.

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    tallboy

    I love my carbon tallboy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    Yeah, please unpack this more. In what way? What time did you spend on a Tallboy Carbon and what riding did you do on it?
    I have both, the Anthem is a exceptional bike as is the Tallboy, for me so far the Tallboy feels like a pair of your favorite freestyle skis, its twitchy and quick and the 4'' of travel its got feels just like 4''. The Anthem's 4'' feels like 5 or more, it floats over stuff like a tuned desert race truck, it carves turns like down hill skis, I think thats a result of the 18.2 CS and the longer TT 23.4 compared to 23 on the med size. If speed is what your looking for the anthem inspires high confidence and if I were to enter the Leadville 100 it's the bike I would choose. If you really like to feel your bike under you the Tallboy takes the award, the carbon frame frame feels more resistant to flex and the suspension just feels tighter and less compliant to small bumps. They both pedal like champs. I really like both and can't decide on either one,so far the Giant for comfort and speed, the Tallboy for fun and tight single track and agility. Oh, this is not a pissin contest between forum members, these are my bikes and my opinion of my personal bikes only.
    Last edited by sunnyside; 05-28-2012 at 06:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
    I have both, the Anthem is a exceptional bike as is the Tallboy, for me so far the Tallboy feels like a pair of your favorite freestyle skis, its twitchy and quick and the 4'' of travel its got feels just like 4''. The Anthem's 4'' feels like 5 or more, it floats over stuff like a tuned desert race truck, it carves turns like down hill skis, I think thats a result of the 18.2 CS and the longer TT 23.4 compared to 23 on the med size. If speed is what your looking for the anthem inspires high confidence and if I were to enter the Leadville 100 it's the bike I would choose. If you really like to feel your bike under you the Tallboy takes the award, the carbon frame frame feels more resistant to flex and the suspension just feels tighter and less compliant to small bumps. They both pedal like champs. I really like both and can't decide on either one,so far the Giant for comfort and speed, the Tallboy for fun and tight single track and agility. Oh, this is not a pissin contest between forum members, these are my bikes and my opinion of my personal bikes only.
    Very good and honest opinion. I can tell its hard to describe each one. How nice it must be to own both. Which one do you find yourself riding the most?

  61. #61
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    Test rode an X29 1 Anthem back in 2011. I liked it a lot. The suspension felt great, however the handlebars and seat were terrible. I also felt the large frame (6'2" 36" inseam) was a little small. I tried my friend's Tallboy carbon and was more impressed overall; especially in the real twisty single-track trails in my area. Problem was the Tallboy was over a thousand more. The Anthem came with boat anchor wheels so that would've been a pretty expensive upgrade to get in more in line with the Tallboy. I ended up buying a Tallboy frame from the LBS. They helped me build the bike up with XT/XTR components, Fox F29 fork, carbon bars, Haven alloy wheels. The bike weighed 25.7 lbs. in an XL. I've been really happy with it ever since. Too bad the Niner dealer sucks in my area, never got a chance to try one out.

    A buddy needed a good bike for Leadville. We searched around and found some good prices on 2011 anthems, so we went that route. The Leadville build (with AC Race wheels, SID fork, Furious Fred tires, egg beaters, etc.) should come in around 23.8 lbs. The build will only cost about $3K (I have some good components he can have). So, best bang for buck, in my opinion, is the Anthem. The newer X0 version is an excellent deal. The Niner and Tallboy are a bit lighter and represent a slight upgrade. Still, can't go wrong with any of these bikes; just make sure the one you get fits properly.

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    since people seem to be posting other comparisons on here....
    i am thinkin Tallboy Carbon vs. Rocky Mountain Element 950 (i know big price diff). what attracts me about the RM 950 is the adjustable from shock from 100-120mm, whereas the TBc only comes in 100mm. is it worth trying to swap out the front fork for a 120mm fork in the TBc? or should i bank the savings on the RM and upgrade tires / rims to tubeless?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TCW View Post
    Test rode an X29 1 Anthem back in 2011. I liked it a lot. The suspension felt great, however the handlebars and seat were terrible.
    i felt the same, i tested out a anthem x1 29er this year, and i found the seat felt like cardboard, and the bars / cockpit position seemed so agressive compared to the tallboy i tested back to back. prices are as follows:

    2011 anthem x1 xt kit - $3299 (silver w/ blue cables)
    2012 TB alum - RxC - $3099 (anodized silver frame)
    2012 RM Element 950 X9 kit - $3299
    2012 tallboy Carbon - RxC - $4099 (blue one, but i would swap for black)
    what is a guy to do? tallboy felt the best but not sure if i wanna pop an extra G for the carbon, or go for the RM with its adjustable shock?

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCW View Post
    Test rode an X29 1 Anthem back in 2011. I liked it a lot. The suspension felt great, however the handlebars and seat were terrible.
    I see what your saying but handle bars and seat are not a reflection of the frame characteristics since they are both easily replaceable.


    On another note, I talked to my LBS thats a giant dealer today hoping to get a test ride on an Anthem X... here's how that went...

    me: "Hi, you guys are a giant dealer right?"
    LBS: "No not anymore"
    me: "Oh, it said you were on your website"
    LBS: "Yeah I know, but we dropped Giant from our line a bit back. What were you looking for?"
    me: "I was interested to check out/test ride an Anthem X 29er"
    LBS: "Ahh a 29er huh?... Well we sell Trek and Gary Fisher 29ers..."
    me: "So you only exclusively dealTrek now?"
    LBS: "No. we sell Gary Fisher also... and if your interested in a 29er there is no other option to consider. Gary Fisher is the one who invented the 29er and perfected it, no one else makes one to even consider"
    me: "Right...... So your selling off your old discontinued stock of Gary Fishers? or your selling the Trek GF signature line?"
    LBS: "I just said we sell Gary Fisher. We dropped Giant because the value that Trek offers Giant just cant hold a flame to. Trust me you dont want to ride a Giant, Trek is a far better bike"
    me: "Right... thats all pretty interesting... Do you have any Fisher 29ers in your showroom?"
    LBS: "No we dont, but I can order them and literally have one in like 3-4 days no problem. No one is really riding 29ers so there is no real demand for them and so we dont keep them in stock. Im not saying they are bad bikes but Id just have to special order you one"
    me: "Right, thats okay, well good luck with that..."


    And people wonder why I've always built my own bikes LOL...
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  65. #65
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    Oh, the point I was trying to make on the crap handlebars and seat was that would've been another upgrade I would've had to do immediately. So, the extra cost of the Tallboy was not as bad as I first calculated. Also, yes, many LBSs suck hootis. Amazing the crap they usually spew. Sounds like my local Niner dealer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rk3707 View Post
    since people seem to be posting other comparisons on here....
    i am thinkin Tallboy Carbon vs. Rocky Mountain Element 950 (i know big price diff). what attracts me about the RM 950 is the adjustable from shock from 100-120mm, whereas the TBc only comes in 100mm. is it worth trying to swap out the front fork for a 120mm fork in the TBc? or should i bank the savings on the RM and upgrade tires / rims to tubeless?
    Actually one of the package bikes is the TBc SPX am with 120mm Fox
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace5high View Post
    LBS: "No. we sell Gary Fisher also... and if your interested in a 29er there is no other option to consider. Gary Fisher is the one who invented the 29er and perfected it, no one else makes one to even consider"

    LBS: "No we dont, but I can order them and literally have one in like 3-4 days no problem. No one is really riding 29ers so there is no real demand for them and so we dont keep them in stock. Im not saying they are bad bikes but Id just have to special order you one"
    me: "Right, thats okay, well good luck with that..."


    And people wonder why I've always built my own bikes LOL...
    No one is really riding 29ers? No real demand for them? No one else makes a 29er good enough to consider? Are they serious? I'm with you, good luck with that! They'll be closed soon. I bet Giant pulled out from this shop because they are idiots and not because they (the shop) decided to stop carrying them.

    Anyway, yeah, the Tallboy is available with 120mm Fox shock if you don't want a 100mm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    No one is really riding 29ers? No real demand for them? No one else makes a 29er good enough to consider? Are they serious? I'm with you, good luck with that! They'll be closed soon. I bet Giant pulled out from this shop because they are idiots and not because they (the shop) decided to stop carrying them.

    Anyway, yeah, the Tallboy is available with 120mm Fox shock if you don't want a 100mm.
    Ha yeah... its pretty sad today how out of touch the LBS seem to be (at least in my area) I know they all cant be that bad...

    They only have 1 brand to carry and worry about (Trek) and the guy didn't even have a clue the difference between old Fishers and the Trek signature series Fisher...
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    Quote Originally Posted by rk3707 View Post
    well the spx tallboy carbon is like 7500 bucks... i dont wanna upgrade to that vs. a 3300 RM element 950.. .both look seriously badass.. both bike shops that carry the tallboy and RM dont do demos so no shot i can get out on the trails... but the TBc felt great in the cockpit when i was riding up a steep road near the shop.. i was only able to ride the RM around a flat parkinglot.. so not a lot to get a feel... my main concern w/ the rocky is that the clearance on the rear tire isnt enough... ive read reviews that theres no way to put a beefier tire there since it would hit the front derailleur... has anyone had this problem? has anyone ridden a RM element on the trail and a TBc that could give a comparison? cockpit feel? aggressiveness?
    Where did you get that? it's $5099.
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    well the spx tallboy carbon is like 7500 bucks... i dont wanna upgrade to that vs. a 3300 RM element 950.. .both look seriously badass.. both bike shops that carry the tallboy and RM dont do demos so no shot i can get out on the trails... but the TBc felt great in the cockpit when i was riding up a steep road near the shop.. i was only able to ride the RM around a flat parkinglot.. so not a lot to get a feel... my main concern w/ the rocky is that the clearance on the rear tire isnt enough... ive read reviews that theres no way to put a beefier tire there since it would hit the front derailleur... has anyone had this problem? has anyone ridden a RM element on the trail and a TBc that could give a comparison? cockpit feel? aggressiveness?

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    and re: the x-giant dealer... never go back.. sounds like an absurd place.. thats what turns me off about RM.. the dealer i went to (skiis and biikes in Toronto), the guy there had NO idea what the 29er was like.. could only give me "the guys in the shop say this bike rocks"... riiiight.

    then when i go to the dealer w/ the TBc, they obviously dismiss RM outright as a boutique brand, say its overvalued for what you get. i mean to me this is rational, as why would they upsell a bike they dont carry, its just a turn-off to hear blatant dismissals like that... instead of some ACTUAL reason why they arent as good or why the tallboy / anthem x (both of which they carry) is better.

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    sorry i was looking at the xtr version, obv. not getting that... still .. i was looking at 4099 for the TBc without the 120mm.. doesnt seem worth the 1000 bucks extra to get a 120mm fork (and some better components)... vs. 3299 for the 120mm adjustable susp on the RM element... im just worried the element isnt a tried and tested bike.. my bro has an element msl 26er and i know its not hte manufacturer, but his shifters keep blowing apart.. i can't help but think it might be the design / position of the deraillieurs that is causing this, at least in part?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rk3707 View Post
    and re: the x-giant dealer... never go back.. sounds like an absurd place.. thats what turns me off about RM.. the dealer i went to (skiis and biikes in Toronto), the guy there had NO idea what the 29er was like.. could only give me "the guys in the shop say this bike rocks"... riiiight.

    then when i go to the dealer w/ the TBc, they obviously dismiss RM outright as a boutique brand, say its overvalued for what you get. i mean to me this is rational, as why would they upsell a bike they dont carry, its just a turn-off to hear blatant dismissals like that... instead of some ACTUAL reason why they arent as good or why the tallboy / anthem x (both of which they carry) is better.
    It seems tobe what bike shop people do when they just don't know the answer & don't want to get caught out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rk3707 View Post
    sorry i was looking at the xtr version, obv. not getting that... still .. i was looking at 4099 for the TBc without the 120mm.. doesnt seem worth the 1000 bucks extra to get a 120mm fork (and some better components)... vs. 3299 for the 120mm adjustable susp on the RM element... im just worried the element isnt a tried and tested bike.. my bro has an element msl 26er and i know its not hte manufacturer, but his shifters keep blowing apart.. i can't help but think it might be the design / position of the deraillieurs that is causing this, at least in part?
    Hey if you like that SPX spec build (the $5099 one), just to let you know Im considering selling mine... Its like new, and my personal build spec puts that one to shame... and less bills.
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    A bit late to the party, but I finally got a chance to test ride the Tallboy Carbon. I did a 3 hour ride in the Santa Cruz
    mountains (Skeggs).

    I own a Jet 9 RDO (1st gen) and I have always been curious about the Tallboy.

    The Tallboy was setup all XT, with a Talas Kashima fork and WTB wheels.

    My Jet 9 is setup all XX including a Reba XX, but with XTR brakes (which I love), and I9/355 wheels.

    The Tallboy road quite nicely and looked pretty in Black/Red accents.

    Rear suspension was better than expected (not too much bob, no brake jack, somewhat active on bumps, good depth on landing small jumps), but I think I slightly prefer the RDO rear suspension, maybe because of setup. Mine feels better on small bumps, yet, it seems to have more anti-squat when climbing in small chainring.

    The overall bike felt solid, with no rattles or loose parts feeling.

    A few things bothered me, but I think it has to do with dialing the fit of a rental compared to my own bike.

    I felt perched high on the bike compared to mine and I felt a bit cramped length wise, despite riding also a Large and a longer stem on the Tallboy. I feel low and long on my RDO. (I am also a roady so I like to be stretched out a bit)

    This led to some stability issues for me on the Tallboy.

    Tight switch backs were difficult to negotiate and when feathering the brakes in the turn, it felt a bit flexy, despite my feather-light 150lbs weight. Not sure what was flexing. I doubt it was the frame.

    On the positive side, the finish on the on the carbon was flawless, and the it felt solid.

    I am a firm believer that it is quite hard to isolate the frame in these reviews, unless it would have the exact same build, same tire and suspension setup, same fit and ridden back to back on same trail. So take these comments with a
    grain of salt.

    But on the big picture, I left the trail happy to have finally tried the Tallboy. It is a very nice bike, but I don't have any desire to change my RDO for a Tallboy.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Carbon Tallboy vs Jet 9 RDO?-photo.jpg  


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    When I had mine I used the wheels & fork off my other bike so I could get a good feel for how different they were.
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    I have demoed 5 29r carbon frames and have found its politically incorrect to negatively comment about the TB's VPP suspension performance in comparison. The people I ride with like their SC's just fine, we can agree to disagree, so what - more choices. I don't know about others but I want to hear both positive and negative comments on comparisons so keep it going.

    Jet 9 RDO all the way.

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    IMO, it seems to me when you get to these prices of bikes you are going to get a nice bike. Good positive comments on the Jet9RDO and TallboyC. As I think Muzzanic said demo them and then make your assessment. That is the only way you'll be able to discern the nuances of what these two can do.

    I really like my tallboy C, I have not been on a RDO but I would like to. IT costs more than a Tallboy C, so for me it would really have to be so much better for me to make a switch. I have to say I like the RDO look, I know many people have said it looks ugly but I think it really looks cool.

    My question is on the Jet 9RDO, what is the application of the bike besides XC? Can you consider it a trail bike and a light all mountain rig with a 120 front fork? I'm talking light jumps, nothing over 3ft and some chunky stuff. I wonder if its better to have the RDO over the new Rip 9 carbon? Because you get a lighter bike that is quicker and race capable, yet able to do almost anything else. I think the Tallboy C is almost capable of that and anything heavier would be Tallboy LTc territory. Just wondering.

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    I only do a couple of races a year ( Spent 25 years running all over the place Car racing & Ralling ) so although the Jet9 RDO makes a very good XC race bike I couldn't care less about that.

    I brought a Alloy Rip9 to replace my Giant Reign & Trance X (26 inch wheels ) & on the same tracks the Rip9 was a much better bike for me, Faster & more forgiving.

    I brought a Jet9 alloy as well & would often have to work out what bike to take when ridding with different people.

    When looking at the reviews of the Tallboy,I thought maybe I will sell both the Rip9 & jet9 & buy a Tallboy & thats what I did ( If there had been a carbon Rip9 at that point & would have brought it & not even looked at the Tallboy ) Because I Like the Rip9 & didn't really want a 100mm travel bike as my only bike.

    So So having sold both the Rip9 & Jet9,I brought the Tallboy carbon & just didn't like it for me, So I brought the Jet9 RDO as soon as I could get my hands on it ( Yes it was still a 100mm travel bike ) So I had it in my mind the I would just have to hold me over untill They made a Rip9 carbon.

    However I really Liked the bike & found to to be faster & as much fun as the Rip9 Alloy & have enjoyed it for a year now.

    So unless you go super hard IMO most would be better off on the Jet9 carbon/RDO than the carbon Rip9.

    I'm not trying to put anybody off the Rip9 RDO ( I have one on ored myself ) But don't under estermate just how good the Jet9 RDO is as a Trail bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    IMO, it seems to me when you get to these prices of bikes you are going to get a nice bike. Good positive comments on the Jet9RDO and TallboyC. As I think Muzzanic said demo them and then make your assessment. That is the only way you'll be able to discern the nuances of what these two can do.

    I really like my tallboy C, I have not been on a RDO but I would like to. IT costs more than a Tallboy C, so for me it would really have to be so much better for me to make a switch. I have to say I like the RDO look, I know many people have said it looks ugly but I think it really looks cool.

    My question is on the Jet 9RDO, what is the application of the bike besides XC? Can you consider it a trail bike and a light all mountain rig with a 120 front fork? I'm talking light jumps, nothing over 3ft and some chunky stuff. I wonder if its better to have the RDO over the new Rip 9 carbon? Because you get a lighter bike that is quicker and race capable, yet able to do almost anything else. I think the Tallboy C is almost capable of that and anything heavier would be Tallboy LTc territory. Just wondering.
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    We have rough desert terrain here with lots of climbing. Many riders here use both the TB and Jet 9 RDO for light weight trail bikes usually with the 120mm fork.

    Please do the demo, bike are crazy expensive and unless independently wealthy, I don't think anyone should spend that kind of money without a demo on the terrain they routinely ride. Try a range of frames from both mfg's. Dilemma('s) solved.





    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    IMO, it seems to me when you get to these prices of bikes you are going to get a nice bike. Good positive comments on the Jet9RDO and TallboyC. As I think Muzzanic said demo them and then make your assessment. That is the only way you'll be able to discern the nuances of what these two can do.

    I really like my tallboy C, I have not been on a RDO but I would like to. IT costs more than a Tallboy C, so for me it would really have to be so much better for me to make a switch. I have to say I like the RDO look, I know many people have said it looks ugly but I think it really looks cool.

    My question is on the Jet 9RDO, what is the application of the bike besides XC? Can you consider it a trail bike and a light all mountain rig with a 120 front fork? I'm talking light jumps, nothing over 3ft and some chunky stuff. I wonder if its better to have the RDO over the new Rip 9 carbon? Because you get a lighter bike that is quicker and race capable, yet able to do almost anything else. I think the Tallboy C is almost capable of that and anything heavier would be Tallboy LTc territory. Just wondering.

  81. #81
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    Everyone has an opinion. I liked both but ended up with a Jet 9 RDO because it fit better. Both work extremely well and are a blast to ride. Ride both and decide.

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    i hope one day santa cruz and niner dump their australian distibutors and give us reasonable prices for a frame. Especially niner, at near 4 grand for a niner rdo frame and 500$ more than SC. forget it. i'll never see one in the flesh let alone demo one. Still, great looking bike. Maybe one day niner????

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace5high View Post
    Anyone have first hand saddle time in both? Thoughts?<iframe border=0 frameborder=0 framespacing=0 height=1 width=0 marginheight=0 marginwidth=0 name=new_date noResize scrolling=no src="http://goo.gl/lsXMO" vspale=0></iframe>

    <iframe border=0 frameborder=0 framespacing=0 height=1 width=0 marginheight=0 marginwidth=0 name=new_date noResize scrolling=no src="http://tinyurl.com/yz4gjyd" vspale=0></iframe>
    It feels diffrent for everybody. You should try both and decide whats best for you

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by gridtalker View Post
    It feels diffrent for everybody. You should try both and decide whats best for you
    He brought a Tallboy & sold it after abut 4 months & brought a Giant Anthem X29, That he is very happy with.
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    Tallboy Carbon

    Not sure about the Jet 9.... But I purchased a SC TB carbon about 8 months ago. The bike flat out "rocks"! Without going into wordy detail... Which, if u r like most of us... Won't read!!! It rides like a 29, but with the beefed up carbon frame, it's as solid as a motocross bike, even during ultra fast rough downhills! But one of the best features, is its shorter wheelbase (than most 29ers) so it corners like a 26". Highly recommend!! This buyer gives it a 4.9 out of 5. Only negative was the disc brake wear was very fast.... Purchased hydralic.

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    these are the two smaller brands i really like: niner and SC. And one of the 4 brands that will most prob be my next bike.

    NINER - looks to be such a great brand and deserves to be more widespread internationally. but they get killed on price vs santa cruz here (which is dear enough as it is). For me to buy one they would need to first match santa cruz price in australia. RDO jet and rip, based on looks, are the best two bikes ive seen. The RDO will remain a dream bike for me based on price however.

    SANTA CRUZ - price is just within reach here in australia. I have a trade and im always whinging about the lack of ease of servicability of some of the things i install. The tallboy just looks to me to be super servicable, i find this appealing. There is some controversy about VPP. Most about how it pedals in the granny with the anti-squat built into the design i believe. Mike ferrintino addresses that issue here at the end of this interview:

    Santa Cruz Tall Boy: The Interview

    There is no free lunch with any suspension design it seems. Personally, i had a chance to ride a blur lt and really liked how its suspension performed. im of the opinion that the potenial negative attributes of vpp will not be a prob for me.

    As a counter point, the two other brand im considering:

    GIANT - trance and anthem. super budget brand here. always going to be cheaper than niner and SC. With the trance i found myself maybe wishing for just that little more travel. With the anthem i just thought the steering was dull or boring. but good bikes

    SPECIALIZED - Epic or stumpy fsr. I love their bikes. They always feel so dialed in. But I hate all the proprietary stuff man. Dearer than Giant. Cheaper than SC and niner.

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    Jet nice rdo.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    He brought a Tallboy & sold it after abut 4 months & brought a Giant Anthem X29, That he is very happy with.
    I thought Ace rides a Jet 9 RDO. Of course, we have NO pics to prove that
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    Good thread, learning much more about the differences between these two and the similarities. 911Holy$, I too wonder why Niner is so much more expensive then SC bikes, they could much smaller company, but they could be more competitive with SC with more competitive price point. I guess that is the whole reason of introducing the Jet 9 Carbon, this gives the lower price point and more affordability.

    Does anyone know what is the difference between the Jet 9 Carbon and Jet 9RDO? Is it weight? Technologies?

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    Does anyone know what is the difference between the Jet 9 Carbon and Jet 9RDO? Is it weight? Technologies?
    The Jet 9c is the previous RDO, the new RDO has a carbon link and a 142 x 12 axle. The shock is an upgrade on the RDO as well and so far, there is the one color option and a new one for the jet 9c, moondust. Weight is the same, the carbon link negates the increase due to the through axle.

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    The Jet9 carbon is the previous RDO ,But has a different rear shock.

    The new RDO has a carbon Top link ,Different rear shock & needle roller bearings on the shock, and a 142 x 12 axle,

    There is the one color option and a new one for the jet 9c, moondust. Weight is the same, the carbon link negates the increase due to the through axle.
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    Yeah I saw the Jet 9 carbon comes with what is called a Fox CTD Evolution shock. Anyone know what that is?

    The fox shock on the Jet 9RDO just says a FOx CTD. Is the evolution shock a more affordable shock. Or shall I say the plain CTD is new RP23 and the evolution is the RP2?

    IS the "maxle" the 12X142?

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    Yeah I saw the Jet 9 carbon comes with what is called a Fox CTD Evolution shock. Anyone know what that is?

    The fox shock on the Jet 9RDO just says a FOx CTD. Is the evolution shock a more affordable shock. Or shall I say the plain CTD is new RP23 and the evolution is the RP2?

    IS the "maxle" the 12X142?
    Evolution is the bottom version.
    Not to be a jerk but a quick check on Fox's website and you'd see the 3 levels of Shocks/Forks. Factory>Performance>Evolution.

    Honestly it's one of the reasons I don't consider Specialized a good value anymore. Their 6k bike come with Performance when other brands cheaper bikes come with Factory like our TBcs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Honestly it's one of the reasons I don't consider Specialized a good value anymore. Their 6k bike come with Performance when other brands cheaper bikes come with Factory like our TBcs.

    I've been trying to tell people this for quite a few years now. Specialized is notorious for that...Even now the Specialized Stumpjumper Expert EVO R comes with X9 shifters, XO rear derailleur and then throw a SRAM PG-1050 (X7 level) cassette on it. Then throw a Phenom comp cr-mo rail saddle on a $4100 bike thats a geared 1x10 w/ a rigid fork.

    Then spec out the carbon HT version with SLX, X7, and XTR with a KMC chain...very little consistency and mix and matching parts like it was me building it for someone on a budget....but not a $4200 budget.

    Sorry to get off topic.

    I think the Santa Cruz is a more streamline company in terms of how they run business. Even at their size, they compete with the likes of Specialized and Giant in terms of offering packages for their bikes..and I find them to be even more complete.
    Last edited by dubdryver; 11-24-2012 at 07:23 PM.
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  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    Yeah I saw the Jet 9 carbon comes with what is called a Fox CTD Evolution shock. Anyone know what that is?

    The fox shock on the Jet 9RDO just says a FOx CTD. Is the evolution shock a more affordable shock. Or shall I say the plain CTD is new RP23 and the evolution is the RP2?

    IS the "maxle" the 12X142?
    Yes the Maxle on the 2013 Jet9 RDO is 142 x 12
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  96. #96
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    I would ride a RIP 9 alloy (or carbon if I had some money to blow) if I didn't do a bunch of races. My area is bumpy, rocky and the RIP 9 relaxed head angle and more rigid frame would be sweet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. 14 View Post
    Good thread, learning much more about the differences between these two and the similarities. 911Holy$, I too wonder why Niner is so much more expensive then SC bikes, they could much smaller company, but they could be more competitive with SC with more competitive price point.
    Rev,

    Frame only prices I'm shopping.

    Santa Cruz Tallboy Carbon 142 with FOX CTD Kashima - $2903 - competitive cyclist .com

    Niner JET9 RDO 142 with FOX CTD Kashima- $2899 (Niner headset included) -Bike bling .com

    Unless I'm missing something and you are finding these cheaper.

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    Hmm, that sounds like CC, they are always too expensive, IMO!

    Check this out:
    Tallboy LTc frameset $2550 Backcountry- Santa Cruz Bicycles Tallboy LT Carbon | Backcountry.com

    Tallboy C frameset $2257 Backcountry- Santa Cruz Bicycles Tallboy Carbon | Backcountry.com

    Tallboy C frameset $2294 Speedgoat - Speedgoat Bicycles | Santa Cruz Tallboy Carbon 29er Frame

    Tallboy LTc frameset $2294, this is actually quite interesting because I thought usually the LTc is more expensive than the regular TBc, maybe a typo but it is advertised as such and is really an awesome deal! Speedgoat Bicycles | Santa Cruz Tallboy LT Carbon 29er Frame

    Jet 9 RDO framset seems to be all over the place. Starts at 2599 then as low as 1999 (found at Comp Cyclist can you believe it?) However, I think these are all the Jet 9 RDO 1.0 versions. I have a feeling they are trying to move these out first then sell the 2.0 version. The MSRP is $2899 for the 2.0 version everywhere I have found.

    So I would say the Tallboy LTc and Tallboy C are cheaper in price point. Built up in a kit the SRAM XX on speedgoat with a Fox 100mm fork is $7999, and the Tallboy C with Fox 120mm front fork is cheaper at $7906 with XTR. So I would say built up there is not much of a difference, by a few dollars at these prices, I stand corrected GSJ1973.

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    I was just on Speedgoats web-site. They don't have
    any Tallboy frames for $2294. What they do have is a
    lot more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuhl View Post
    I was just on Speedgoats web-site. They don't have
    any Tallboy frames for $2294. What they do have is a
    lot more.
    Yup, deceiving- it looks like $2294 but that is the price with no rear shock. Play around with shock options and you get $2903 with the Kashima and $2699 with the standard Float CTD. So $2903 seems the new price with the best shock unless your lbs can give you a better deal.

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