At the Michigan Iceman Cometh race, Cannondale allowed individuals to sign up the night before, to test ride a Caffiene 29er for the Iceman race the following morning. It was suggested that a seperate thread would be helpful in posting the riders impressions.
If you had added your comments to the previous Iceman thread, could those riders copy and paste their thoughts here?
I had posted this yesterday in the C'dale forum. I rode one of the demo C'dale 29'ers at the Iceman. I had assumed the medium would fit due to the published specs but the large was just about right due to the shorter top tube than advertised. I don't remember the actual measurements but I think it was about a 1/2" shorter.
I ended up switching bikes the night before the Iceman when I changed my mind about racing a demo Caffeine 29'er. I knew that in stock build they would be heavier than my 21.5 pound HT but with my bump up to the Expert class this year I figured I wouldn't be on the podium and figured that this would be a good time to try the bike. I had never ridden a 29'er before and wanted to see what all the fuss was about before building one from a frame and fork next year.
The bike worked great in the sand, able to roll over most sections where others were floundering. I was able to stay on the bike and keep traction on the hills that others were walking. I was passing people in a lot of sections where I may not have dared to on a smaller wheeled bike. I thought it handled just as well as the other Lefty bikes I have, the 80mm of travel seemed larger due to the cush of the bigger tires. It also handled the singletrack much better than I anticipated, I felt very confident in the corners and was able to pass people in the last maze section of the race by taking the corners more aggressively. I think a 29'er may actually fit me a little better since I have a longer inseam and like a shorter top tube. I never felt like I was riding a larger bike, other than the weight as mentioned below.
The bike in stock form is a little portly for serious racing, probably coming in around 29 pounds in the size large I used. I could feel the weight when accelerating and when climbing. I also had continued issues with the seatpost slipping using the quick release collar until I finally got out an Allen wrench and snugged it down without using the QR lever.
I can see why people are switching to a 29'er and I'll be building one next year. This bike should be a big seller for Cannondale given the price point they are shooting for, especially with the use of the Lefty. The race turned into more of a challenge than I had anticipated but I'm glad to have had a chance to test ride the Cannondale. Thanks go to them for making it happen.
I'm probably not much help here, but I checked it out at the registration area. It caught my eye, and looks sexy-beefy-fast, but when I picked it up........uhhg. it's tanky, but nicely balanced front-to-rear. I was a Cannondale rider before my first 29er, so I have that place in my heart for the headshock.....but that bike had no appeal to me as an XC rider.
I can't wait to ride a cannondale 29er since i ride a scalpel now. I was wanting ya'lls opinion on the 70 degree headtube angle. Is that too slack for a 29er? Most others are 72-73 Would the steering be slower with 70 vs 73? My scalpel has a 70 degree head tube and i love this bike. But, i haven't ridden many mountain bikes and i've yet to ride a 29er. Thanks for any info.
I can't wait to ride a cannondale 29er since i ride a scalpel now. I was wanting ya'lls opinion on the 70 degree headtube angle. Is that too slack for a 29er? Most others are 72-73 Would the steering be slower with 70 vs 73? My scalpel has a 70 degree head tube and i love this bike. But, i haven't ridden many mountain bikes and i've yet to ride a 29er. Thanks for any info.
Justin C
You need to know the fork trail number. That tells the story on the handling to a great degree. I believe the Lefty has more offset, so the trail figure will be closer to other 29"ers and will feel quick in the handling department, at least theoretically.
I grabbed a medium, based on the published numbers. I currently ride a medium Karate Monkey.
I was surprised to find (when I sat down to measure my fit) that the medium measured almost an inch shorter than Cannondale's lit stated. The bike came with a 100mm stem and a 350mm seatpost.
In a panic I went back to my hook up to see if they had any longer equipment. They had a 120 stem, but I had no option but use the stock seatpost. I probably could have used a post with a bit more setback too.
But those are personalization things IF I were to ride a Medium. I'd probably purchase a Large. Funny thing is, Skinl and I compared setups. He chose the Large during my tither over the shorter than expected TT. I used a 120mm, he used a 100 (bike comes with 120).
the specs state a 23.5d seat tube and I believe it. You drive this bike from it's center. The transition from seated to standing is easy and does not upset the for-aft balance much at all. You just power along and then transition back to the seat.
I also did not feel that the published 70d head angle produced slow steering. It certainly was stable and precise, Sandy corners were a matter of weighting the outside pedal and the inside bar grip. the bike did the rest in a rather predictable manner.
Also of big note (specially as the bike is 1599 retail light) is that the bike actually climbs well, though it wants to at it's own pace. Like a John Deere tractor. You settle into a cadence and just ride it up.
the overall ride quality was quite good. You gotta love the lefty, but it was only part of the equation. The new Caffeine frame is very compliant, surprisingly not harsh at all. I know that part of it was the Exis on both ends (another thing I'd change. I've had fantastic results around my parts with good old fashioned IRC Mythos 2.1s) and the extra diameter of the wheels.
One other thing. I've done 6 Iceman events prior to this year. This was the first year that I plowed straight through 95% of the sand pits and 75% of the climbs, including the last 2, where I pedaled past riders walking or cramping along the trail.
Would I buy one? I would consider it. it's a great handling and riding bike for a great price. But I'd be more likely to pay more for a lighter version.
Cannondale is oversold on the initial runs of these bikes. If any of you are waiting for one, you'll enjoy it.
Thanks all for the reports!
It will be interesting to hear from an Cdale insider what's up with the top tube lengths, what size should people be witing for? Trust the specs and call the demo's just pre-pro samples?
Also, where's the weight coming from? Exi tires, heavy stock tubes? Not-so-light Lefty model? I would have guessed the weight to be the same or lower than a Fisher Paragon.
Per cannondale's site it has 4.5 cm rake and 8.7 trail. So that puts it back in line with other 29ers? Why would they have a slack head tube and then so much rake? Sorry, i'm a newbie.
The combination of much rake/offset and a slack head tube angle (counter-acting, trail figure or general quickness stays in check) creates good toe clearance (wheel is pushed forward in 2 ways) and thus allows for shorter top tube lengths, if so wished. Similar things are seen in Jeff Jones custom bikes, even more offset on those, with similar slack head tube angles and even shorter top tubes, for a "playful" handling characteristic.
Thanks all for the reports!
It will be interesting to hear from an Cdale insider what's up with the top tube lengths, what size should people be witing for? Trust the specs and call the demo's just pre-pro samples?
Also, where's the weight coming from? Exi tires, heavy stock tubes? Not-so-light Lefty model? I would have guessed the weight to be the same or lower than a Fisher Paragon.
The bike felt "draggy" with the Exis. Not sure if they were wire or the folders. But the build held some compromises. TruVativ Isoflow crank (steel, steel, steel...), massively oversized FSA risers, WTB dual duties laced to a M475 rear hub and a generic SI front hub, Avid BB5s (which surprised me with their power) and the Lefty Speed DLR isn't the lightest fork manufactured.
One HUGE positive: There is just a tremendous amount of tire clearance in the rear (well, the front too...)
On the subject of TT length, the factory guys were on the phone to the factory immediately after confirming my measurements.
Please don't take this wrong, I"m not panning the bike. I think the bike is a great way to buy an over the counter remedy for the 29er disease. Cannondale did a great job at bring the bike to market at the price point they felt would create a sell out.
The bike felt "draggy" with the Exis. Not sure if they were wire or the folders. But the build held some compromises. TruVativ Isoflow crank (steel, steel, steel...), massively oversized FSA risers, WTB dual duties laced to a M475 rear hub and a generic SI front hub, Avid BB5s (which surprised me with their power) and the Lefty Speed DLR isn't the lightest fork manufactured.
I'm not a big fan of Exi's. I concur with the "draggy feel" that you describe. They are also pretty stiff cased tires for such a huge volume. On the heavy parts, there are some Cannondale bits and peices like the seat and seat post that I'm sure are not the lightest in the world. I agree on the wheels, but unless you have a dummy Lefty axle, it's hard to build yer own set up. Of course I-9's would cure all of that! The Lefty Speed Bonded DLR is listed at 3.85 lbs. That's not terribly heavy, in my opinion.
One HUGE positive: There is just a tremendous amount of tire clearance in the rear (well, the front too...)
That's good news, but might cause problems with chainline if you run a non-outboard bearing crank set up.
On the subject of TT length, the factory guys were on the phone to the factory immediately after confirming my measurements.
Please don't take this wrong, I"m not panning the bike. I think the bike is a great way to buy an over the counter remedy for the 29er disease. Cannondale did a great job at bring the bike to market at the price point they felt would create a sell out.
I think the first production run is sold through already. Admittedly, it was rather small, as Cannondale thought that this was a risky undertaking, making a 29"er. I think that this is going to show them that it's a bigger market than they thought.
Perhaps the guys were calling the factory to get the measurements checked before they run another batch of frames through? Just speculating there.
The TT measurements in the catalog are road style horizontal measurements. With such a large BB drop the horizontal TT measurement is from the top of the ST horizontally over to the intersection of the HT axis which ends up being quite a bit below the BOTTOM of the headtube.
For clarity here are the actual TT measurements from the top of the TT to the top of the HT:
The TT measurements in the catalog are road style horizontal measurements. With such a large BB drop the horizontal TT measurement is from the top of the ST horizontally over to the intersection of the HT axis which ends up being quite a bit below the BOTTOM of the headtube.
Interesting, I see that now in the picture. I had assumed the horizontal TT measurement was center to center of the seat tube and the head tube.
I'll be riding it today.
This will be my first 29er experience so you could say I will be popping my 29er cherry
I spent the 2006 season racing 12 & 24 hour solo races on a Cannondale Rush, so this should pretty cool to see the differences.
Jeff, Will you be getting the chance to ride it today off road or on the road? Hopefully you can put it to its test on the dirt. You may be riding one of these next year for some of your races. I'll bet you are going to be smiling today.
Originally Posted by KERKOVEJ
I'll be riding it today.
This will be my first 29er experience so you could say I will be popping my 29er cherry
I spent the 2006 season racing 12 & 24 hour solo races on a Cannondale Rush, so this should pretty cool to see the differences.
Jeff, Will you be getting the chance to ride it today off road or on the road? Hopefully you can put it to its test on the dirt. You may be riding one of these next year for some of your races. I'll bet you are going to be smiling today.
I will be riding it off-road. Stay tuned. I'll post something on my blog with pictures. I'll give this forum a heads up when I do.
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Originally Posted by Vortechcoupe
