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  1. #301
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    dub - it was just a street ride. But I instantly fell in love. Chris said it'd be like riding 26" wheels, and he was right. Turns and corners were on hit. I am going to take it out for a proper trail ride, but I pretty much have my mind made up--I'm getting one. Only questionable thing is steep climbs--headtube is definitely high. Hope the front end won't wander too much. But I guess since it'll be set up SS, that may not be an issue since I'll be standing anyway.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by p nut View Post
    dub - it was just a street ride. But I instantly fell in love. Chris said it'd be like riding 26" wheels, and he was right. Turns and corners were on hit. I am going to take it out for a proper trail ride, but I pretty much have my mind made up--I'm getting one. Only questionable thing is steep climbs--headtube is definitely high. Hope the front end won't wander too much. But I guess since it'll be set up SS, that may not be an issue since I'll be standing anyway.
    Gotta stand on the climbs. I'm gonna switch to a shorter stem to help tame the front wander a bit (and to get my weight back a bit.) Wait til you start hitting the bumps, and the jumps with this thing. The bike just floats underneath you.

  3. #303
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    My Nimble 9





    Essential build info:
    Medium Frame
    Voodoo Zombie 500 fork
    65mm, 5 degree rise stem
    700mm Sunline V One carbon bars

    I've had it for a couple of weeks and have been on 2 short (4ish miles) rides at my local haunt, La Costa, an 18 mile ride on mixed fireroad/mostly buff singletrack and another 14 mile ST ride up around Big Laguna.

    My most recent main bike is a 26" medium Stumpy. While the N9 is a hoot to ride I am gonna throw a 120mm suspension fork on it when I get the cash saved up. The rigid front is fun in an ascetic manner; with a squishy front end it's gonna rock. Compared to other 29ers that I've ridden (Specialized, Trek, Niner) the N9 lives up to its name.

    At 5'7", long inseam (31.5") and moderate ape index I was torn between the small and medium frames. I am glad I went with a medium. The reach of the N9 is fairly short. With the 65mm stem and 700mm wide bars I am most comfortable with my hands a little bit inside of the ends when I am just cruising. However, when pointed down or when I am up out of the saddle climbing the extra bit of bar to the outside is nice to have.

  4. #304
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    since the picture, the stem is right on top of the headset, as for the bar, easier and cheeper to replace the headset than a $140 carbon h-bar. moving the spacers helped but not enough.
    http://www.bradwaltonphoto.com
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  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by surly_an_instigator View Post
    since the picture, the stem is right on top of the headset, as for the bar, easier and cheeper to replace the headset than a $140 carbon h-bar. moving the spacers helped but not enough.
    Maybe find someone in the classifieds to swap with? Lower HS stack might help a bit, but you're not going to be able to get as much lower as with a flat bar.
    O.K., now don't take this the wrong way, and I'm really not one of those kooks, but how about flipping your current bar upside down? Just for a couple of rides, to see how the lower bars would affect your feel on the bike.

    Los
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  6. #306
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    Hey, just saw you're in Boise. We got to spend July there, and my first rides on the N9 were in Idaho. Coming down Eastside on this bike is a blast! And the water bars on the foothill trails just let you float...

    Los
    Whiskey is my yoga.

  7. #307
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    stem is a 0 deg 50mm, thinking of going 0 deg 65mm. Dont take THIS the wrong way , but flipping the bars is the silliest thing I have heard in a long while, and I have been doing this a LONG while. with the 8 back and the 4 upsweep that thing would ride like crap. sorry.
    http://www.bradwaltonphoto.com
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  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by surly_an_instigator View Post
    stem is a 0 deg 50mm, thinking of going 0 deg 65mm. Dont take THIS the wrong way , but flipping the bars is the silliest thing I have heard in a long while, and I have been doing this a LONG while. with the 8 back and the 4 upsweep that thing would ride like crap. sorry.
    C'mon- that's the silliest thing you've heard?!? I know, it sound ludicrous, and if you are not amenable to changing out bars (which, considering a $140 bar I don't blame you,) it's moot.
    I suggested it just for the sake of experimentation. You are looking for weight distribution with this- hand position can be taken care of later. With the 4 degrees of "downsweep," you'd have a bit of cafe racer style to go with it!
    How's the toptube length for you? 65-70mm stem will get more weight on the front wheel, which may help your issue. If you have a good relationship with your LBS, see if they'll let you play around with some different stems. Perhaps even try a 5-10 degree stem run flipped.
    Trying to offer helpful, low budget suggestions, which comes from 20 years of wrenching and helping people fit on their bikes. Does that count as a long time?

    Los
    Whiskey is my yoga.

  9. #309
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    Just went for a trail ride. I love this bike. Climbs awesome, and solid on descents. Only issue was the low BB. Also, I'm about 5'11" and the medium felt a little too small. Not sure if I should spring for a large.

  10. #310
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    I am the bike shop and, 16 years helping people find and size bikes. Good to see that not all bike shop workers are 18yo downhillers from Tahoe bra! Installed a headset today that dropped me another 7.5mm and put on a 65mm stem. Test ride today if I can keep the gerital and viagra down.
    http://www.bradwaltonphoto.com
    "you slow whitted rectal beltch" -sp

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by surly_an_instigator View Post
    I am the bike shop and, 16 years helping people find and size bikes. Good to see that not all bike shop workers are 18yo downhillers from Tahoe bra! Installed a headset today that dropped me another 7.5mm and put on a 65mm stem. Test ride today if I can keep the gerital and viagra down.
    Hope that takes care of it for ya, enjoy yer ride!

    Los
    Whiskey is my yoga.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by p nut View Post
    Just went for a trail ride. I love this bike. Climbs awesome, and solid on descents. Only issue was the low BB. Also, I'm about 5'11" and the medium felt a little too small. Not sure if I should spring for a large.
    I'm 5'8.5" and I think the medium is perfect for me. Not a whole lot of standover, but good effective top tube length. The ett isn't very long on these frames so you may want to try a large to see how it measures up.

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubthang View Post
    I'm 5'8.5" and I think the medium is perfect for me. Not a whole lot of standover, but good effective top tube length. The ett isn't very long on these frames so you may want to try a large to see how it measures up.
    I sat on the large. I think I'm going to stick with the medium. The bike I rode had the fork set at 80mm and 70mm stem. I'll have mine set up with a 100mm fork and 80mm stem. That should be about spot on. That would also resolve the low bb issue.

  14. #314
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    p nut- I'm also 5'11" and ride a medium with a 100mm fork, but run a 90mm stem. Compared to my bikes over the last decade since leaving the DH world, the top tube feels pretty short. After a couple of rides, I almost completely adapted. My only concern is long (5 hour and up) rides, but I guess I'll find out in due time.
    I think the only reason to go up to a large would be to use a teeny stem (50-70mm,) and I don't see much advantage there.

    Los
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  15. #315
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    Thanks, sslos. I actually ended up placing an order for a medium this morning. The bike I was on was set up with a 70mm stem and 80mm fork. So with an 80-90mm stem and 100mm fork, I should be good. If not, I can always get a set back post or a longer stem.

    Regarding endurance rides, my thoughts are this bike would be even more comfortable than my El Mariachi. I did about a 2-hour ride yesterday and felt good.

    I can't wait to build this thing up.

  16. #316
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    Congrats on your upcoming build!
    I have a set back Thomson post on mine. I guess I'm just so used to being more stretched out that it feels a bit cramped. I just haven't done longer than a 3 hour ride on it yet, but that'll happen soon.
    What color did you decide on?

    Los
    Whiskey is my yoga.

  17. #317
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    I'm not a green kinda guy, and already have a black bike, so went with the blue. GITD feature won me over.

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by p nut View Post
    I'm not a green kinda guy, and already have a black bike, so went with the blue. GITD feature won me over.
    Good thing not green, or I would rally the troops to neg rep you RED for being normal proportioned. Speaking of green that is me - green with ENVY - I want one really really really bad, but the gurus here tell me not for my long legs / short torso. I'm looking for a surgeon to take 2-3 inches out of my legs and add them to my torso, no more than a two week recovery. Know anyone?

    I'm also trying to unsubscribe from this thread and end the torture, but I don't have the will power.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  19. #319
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    I'm 5'11 with a 29.5 inch bare foot inseam and I went with a medium. I called Canfield Brothers and went over the sizes. at 5'11 they told me I was in the middle. With my intended fork would put the ETT at 600mm. I pan on running a 90mm stem with a 0 set back seat post or a set back seat post with a 80mm stem.

    The frame is sitting here with some of the parts. I cant decide weather I should strip down one of my other bikes to build it up or just wait until I can get the needed bits.....

  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus View Post
    Good thing not green, or I would rally the troops to neg rep you RED for being normal proportioned. Speaking of green that is me - green with ENVY - I want one really really really bad, but the gurus here tell me not for my long legs / short torso. I'm looking for a surgeon to take 2-3 inches out of my legs and add them to my torso, no more than a two week recovery. Know anyone?

    I'm also trying to unsubscribe from this thread and end the torture, but I don't have the will power.
    You shouldn't give up hope until you ride one. Chris @ Canfield rides a Large. You should call him up and see if he'll be in your area in the near future. He says he'll be traveling quite a bit.

    I'm willing to bet you can make it work.
    Last edited by p nut; 09-15-2011 at 07:04 PM.

  21. #321
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    I saw that in an earlier post, thanks for the plug for our trails, I have been riding those trails for 26 some odd years, just somthing about them. Great trails for 29ers, hardtails are perfect.
    http://www.bradwaltonphoto.com
    "you slow whitted rectal beltch" -sp

  22. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus View Post
    Good thing not green, or I would rally the troops to neg rep you RED for being normal proportioned. Speaking of green that is me - green with ENVY - I want one really really really bad, but the gurus here tell me not for my long legs / short torso. I'm looking for a surgeon to take 2-3 inches out of my legs and add them to my torso, no more than a two week recovery. Know anyone?

    I'm also trying to unsubscribe from this thread and end the torture, but I don't have the will power.
    I think this bike would be rather comfortable with your body proportions. The lower bb will give you more leg room, and the tt seems shorter to me than to more xc styled frames.

  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubthang View Post
    I think this bike would be rather comfortable with your body proportions. The lower bb will give you more leg room, and the tt seems shorter to me than to more xc styled frames.
    what gives you the impression that it has a lower BB and shorter TT than most XC bikes?
    it doesn't. look at some numbers.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    what gives you the impression that it has a lower BB and shorter TT than most XC bikes?
    it doesn't. look at some numbers.
    My impression was based on the fact that I own a Nimble, and before I purchased the frame, I made a lovely chart that compared all similar 29er's that I have ridden. My chart was based on the bikes being run rigid which lengthens the top tube and lowers the bb.

  25. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubthang View Post
    bikes being run rigid which lengthens the top tube
    using rigid (=shorter) fork actually shortens effective top tube. this is the main reason i'm still debating whether to get nimble or not.. at 6'2" with 35" inseam and long hands it is hair to small

  26. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by vemeno View Post
    using rigid (=shorter) fork actually shortens effective top tube. this is the main reason i'm still debating whether to get nimble or not.. at 6'2" with 35" inseam and long hands it is hair to small
    Yes, that was poorly written on my part.

    I never clarified with Chris as to whether the medium Nimble has a 23.5" or a 23.75" ett. Both numbers show up on the Canfield site. When I originally made my purchase, the geo chart used the 23.5" ett. My frame feels like 23.5" too. Perhaps I can get a measurement off of it later tonight.

  27. #327
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    well, from Canfield site it is either 24.5" or 24.2" for large frame, but I remember someone mentioning 24" with rigid fork..

  28. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubthang View Post
    My impression was based on the fact that I own a Nimble, and before I purchased the frame, I made a lovely chart that compared all similar 29er's that I have ridden. My chart was based on the bikes being run rigid which lengthens the top tube and lowers the bb.
    I'd love to see your chart.
    My point of reference is bikes I've owned in the past year (Salsa, Kona, Soma, Surly) and some others I'm interested in (On One, Ventana, Moots) and it's inconsistent with what you found. I also looked very closely at the Nimble.
    I'll add to what others pointed out by sayin that not only does ETT decrease with A-C, it reduces the effect of the Canfield seat tube design relative to other bikes.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  29. #329
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    Measured my ett just now. 23.5" with a Niner carbon, 470 a-c measurement.

    meltingfeather- Wish I still had the chart to show you. Most of the bikes I had in my chart were north of 23.5, not always by much, but enough that I would notice the difference.

  30. #330
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    One thing to think about with all this ett talk is that the head tube is longer than on some other bikes.

    My seat height is actually below the ett line. I do run a setback post (25mm Truvativ) to help keep the saddle where I need it, but the higher front end is calling for a shorter stem. It's odd. Horizontally (nose of saddle to h-bar center,) the bike is almost the same as my last bike, but the additional rise calls for a shorter stem. I'm sure the Pythagorean theorem would be useful here.

  31. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubthang View Post
    I'm not sure if the N9 is right for you long legged guys, but the cs length is adjustable. You could always run a zero offset, or a reversed offset seatpost to compensate for the seat tube angle as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by dubthang View Post
    I think this bike would be rather comfortable with your body proportions. The lower bb will give you more leg room, and the tt seems shorter to me than to more xc styled frames.
    Now you have be wondering, these seem contradictory, given my original lengthy explanation of my proportions in post #273, or am I missing something here? I'm still horribly tempted to try a Nimble 9, knowing I can sell it or just use it as an SS, but my ideal would be a 3 x 9 with 120 mm fork. The only thing I would have to buy besides the frame is a direct mount derailleur. (I already run zero setback posts.)
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  32. #332
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    The first post was in response to the weight over the rear wheel issue.

    That said, the more miles I put on this bike, the more my ideas about it change. I rode a very tech filled place in NH before the second post which made me think that perhaps somebody sized like you would be ok. I'm beginning to think that the extra leg length may be an asset since you'd have more room to throw the bike around underneath you.

  33. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus View Post
    Now you have be wondering, these seem contradictory, given my original lengthy explanation of my proportions in post #273, or am I missing something here? I'm still horribly tempted to try a Nimble 9, knowing I can sell it or just use it as an SS, but my ideal would be a 3 x 9 with 120 mm fork. The only thing I would have to buy besides the frame is a direct mount derailleur. (I already run zero setback posts.)
    Dude, seriously, do I have to send you more booze to get you to commit already? There's even a dude selling a Large for $500 in the classifieds. You'd be out zero to a few bucks if it doesn't work out.

    EDIT: Nevermind, I guess it sold. But I'm hoping you bought it.

  34. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubthang View Post
    The first post was in response to the weight over the rear wheel issue.

    That said, the more miles I put on this bike, the more my ideas about it change. I rode a very tech filled place in NH before the second post which made me think that perhaps somebody sized like you would be ok. I'm beginning to think that the extra leg length may be an asset since you'd have more room to throw the bike around underneath you.
    Thanks, I think. I feel like I am asking a bunch of junkies if I should try a hit.

    Quote Originally Posted by p nut View Post
    Dude, seriously, do I have to send you more booze to get you to commit already? There's even a dude selling a Large for $500 in the classifieds. You'd be out zero to a few bucks if it doesn't work out.

    EDIT: Nevermind, I guess it sold. But I'm hoping you bought it.
    I have not cracked the beer. I'm afraid it has the curse of Umarth, the 29er hater.

    Besides, GITD or not, green is where my heart lies, good price or no, but I was tempted at $550..
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  35. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus View Post
    I feel like I am asking a bunch of junkies if I should try a hit.
    I don't think I could have put it any better.
    I'd + rep but it says I have to spread it around.
    The best (and I think only) test would be to ride one.
    If you have an issue with longer CS bikes that don't have the slack seat tube, there is no doubt that moving the rear wheel further under you will exacerbate that issue... no doubt. Numbers don't tell the whole story all the time, and neither does common sense... but they tend to give you some reliable guidance most of the time.
    Maybe you can get it to work... I think only you can figure that out.

    If I hear "throw the bike around" one more time I might... nevermind.

    I hope you end up with exactly what you're looking for.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  36. #336
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    HOLLY S---!!!!
    Not tryin' to be an ass, but in all my years of riding bikes and many different frames; I have never given this much thought about the tech aspect of if it is going to fit or not.
    I almost always look for a large frame w/ a ETT of 24-24.5 and a ST of 19-19.5.
    As long as I have both of those geos. somewhere in those ranges, I know I'm good to go and can make other changes to whatever if need be.
    This has always applied to any 26" or 29" frame I have ever owned.

    Just buy the frame and see what happens

    Too much thought into all of this

  37. #337
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    The key thing for me is being able to have a frame that I can throw around. Being able to predict where my wheels will land when I'm throwing the bike around is key. I find that the Nimble is a very throwable bike. I'd feel comfortable throwing this thing around on any trail.


    I'm an ass, sorry.

  38. #338
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    I have not been able to confirm that the Nimble 9 is a throwable bike yet. My frame is sitting on my Lazy Boy waiting for the fork and wheels to arrive Tuesday. When they get here I'll throw the bike together, throw my leg over the bike and take it for a ride just to see how throwable the bike really is!

  39. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by osty View Post
    HOLLY S---!!!!
    Not tryin' to be an ass, but in all my years of riding bikes and many different frames; I have never given this much thought about the tech aspect of if it is going to fit or not.
    I almost always look for a large frame w/ a ETT of 24-24.5 and a ST of 19-19.5.
    As long as I have both of those geos. somewhere in those ranges, I know I'm good to go and can make other changes to whatever if need be.
    This has always applied to any 26" or 29" frame I have ever owned.

    Just buy the frame and see what happens

    Too much thought into all of this
    I know what you mean. What I had worked for years (been on MTB since 1979). Then Voodoo threw me a curve when my beloved 2007 broke and the warranty 2009 was the devil bike incarnate, all due to some geometry changes. The "conventional" trend in 29er geometry is worse for my orangutan proportions, so the new slack angles / lower BB / short CS is another experiment I am not so sure about now. Plus this economy has stomped me pretty hard, so I'm a little gun shy here.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  40. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by osty View Post
    HOLLY S---!!!!
    Not tryin' to be an ass, but in all my years of riding bikes and many different frames; I have never given this much thought about the tech aspect of if it is going to fit or not.
    I almost always look for a large frame w/ a ETT of 24-24.5 and a ST of 19-19.5.
    As long as I have both of those geos. somewhere in those ranges, I know I'm good to go and can make other changes to whatever if need be.
    This has always applied to any 26" or 29" frame I have ever owned.
    if that works for you, great.
    this situation is quite a bit more unique than yours (proportions outside the norm that create issues on the bike and fringe geometry).
    Don't like it? Don't read it.

    Quote Originally Posted by osty View Post
    Too much thought into all of this
    Maybe for you. It's not your money or your bike.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  41. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    The best (and I think only) test would be to ride one.bt.
    Yes, I suspect that is correct. However, I am in a pretty small town half way from LA to SF, and demos just don't get to the shops here often. The big brands hit every year or two, but the little ones like Canfield pretty much never. I'm likely their only sales prospect in the area.

    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    If you have an issue with longer CS bikes that don't have the slack seat tube, there is no doubt that moving the rear wheel further under you will exacerbate that issue... no doubt.
    Well, biggest issues have been with FS bikes and high BB. I picked up an Access XCL cheap to try, and with the Minute 120 fork, my angle finder gives me 69 HA and 71 SA with 18" CS and 12.8" BB. It is not bad, but wanders a little on steep climbs. The specs on the N9 would give me a lower BB it appears, steeper effective SA, slacker HA, and shorter stays.

    Mental computer is overloaded, I don't usually do this mental masturbation, but the tight budget requires more caution and thought. Thanks for the input.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

  42. #342
    Ariolimax columbianus
    Reputation: nativeson's Avatar
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    numbers will wear you down....

    this bike works.....steers from the hips, real similar to my hunter cross bike, and that's one of the main attributes i love about the bikes that i feel fit me the best, the more i ride them, day in day out. snappy rear end, unlike the other 29ers i've ridden that feel like the rear end trails around corners, or you have to compensate a bit for faster lateral movement, this rear end feels planted underneath you and really follows the front.

    steep climbs so far have been good, the front end really responds and the control through the front end feels feathery and precise whether your on or off the front during a climb. overall downhills and overall riding have been intuitive, frame fits great, and i immediately felt like the bike was built for me, or i'd been ridin it forever, it's just that comfortable, and well, nimble. i just need a travel fork.

  43. #343
    she keep you buying rats
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    Check this out... look here in the California - Norcal sub-forum for the user Scott forty G.'s impressive Nimble 9 build: forums.mtbr.com/california-norcal/im-no-chum-731447.html




    Quote Originally Posted by Scott forty G. View Post
    But i think we have a bit in common.

    1. We love Mountain Bikes
    2. We love Singlespeeds
    3. We love Singlespeed 29ers
    4. We love Santa Cruz
    5. We think Aptos is the best!

    While my green singlespeed 29er Vassago has been faithful and have served me well in all types of riding, from death marches to never ending suffering climbs. Like this one or some southwest chunk and blistering Santa Cruz DH. Nothing last forever and sh*t brakes. A week ago, the crack where the headtube and downtube meets just got bigger and bigger. So, i just had to pull the trigger on a new SS 29er while i wait for a year to get my custom frame built up.... Oh yeah, you can make that #6 of one the things we will have in common

    Just finished her today...


    70MM silver thomson stem for DH feel


    780mm Silver chrome Chromag handlebars. Extra wide because i got no skills on the DH.


    Silver Skull and Chris King


    Silver Grip endings


    Black Nimble 9 Medium




    White Formula brakes because i like to match things sometimes, it's the girl in me


    Wife in the background looking forward to a new adventure.
    Last edited by WeakMite; 09-17-2011 at 08:13 PM.

  44. #344
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    I like that silver and black combo!

  45. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    if that works for you, great.
    this situation is quite a bit more unique than yours (proportions outside the norm that create issues on the bike and fringe geometry).
    Don't like it? Don't read it.


    Maybe for you. It's not your money or your bike.
    Stop cyin'.

  46. #346
    trail rat
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    Quote Originally Posted by osty View Post
    Stop cyin'.
    I'm the one, not him. He's trying to help and I appreciate it.
    You're just giving me grief and I appreciate it too.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

  47. #347
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    word. we all here love the frames!!!!!!
    It's all in fun

  48. #348
    Addicted to Dirt
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    Is anybody running a Sram 2x10 (39/26) crank on their Nimble 9?

  49. #349
    .......
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus View Post
    ...
    Besides, GITD or not, green is where my heart lies, good price or no, but I was tempted at $550..
    Chris Canfield's green Nimble was pretty sweet looking. The green Niner carbon fork matched perfectly (if that's your thing).

    BTW, you got upped a chicklet and RP.

  50. #350
    trail rat
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    Quote Originally Posted by p nut View Post
    Chris Canfield's green Nimble was pretty sweet looking. The green Niner carbon fork matched perfectly (if that's your thing).

    BTW, you got upped a chicklet and RP.
    I saw that bike, nice looking. I like rigid SS, but this will be my long ride bike, 20-50 miles, 2k-6k climbing, so with a 3 x 9 and 120mm fork to replace a FS that does not work. No way can I get a new (used) FS, but the steel Nimble 9 will do, I think.

    Amazing how the green squares find me. Thanks.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

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