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  1. #1
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    Buyer Beware - Giant Trance X 29er 0 marketing trick

    Just picked up my Giant Trance X 29er 0 from my LBS and I was disappointed to see that the rear shock does NOT have the Kashima coating even though the Giant catalog and their marketing materials all show it with the coating (see photo below from Giant's website). My LBS called his Giant sales rep to see what the mix-up was. The Giant rep said "the catalog photo is wrong". He did note that the specs for the shock in the marketing materials do not say that it has Kashima coating.

    My LBS was very cool about it and offered me a nice shock pump and quick chain link to cover the difference which I felt like was fair. However, I feel like Giant pulled a bait and switch. Maybe I wouldn't even notice the difference in the ride but when you plunk down that kind of $$ on a bike you expect to get what was advertised. Buyer beware.

    Now, I'm going to erase that memory and go out and enjoy the bike. Out of the four 29'rs I rode the Trance X was the only one that felt right to me. I'll list them below in my order of preference:

    #1 Giant Trance X 29er 0
    #2 Kona Satori (too hard to maneuver, felt longer and less responsive than the Trance)
    #3 Trek Superfly 100 FS (maneuverable but rode too rough for my taste)
    #4 Giant Anthem 29'r (felt very similar to the Superfly 100)

    I'm coming from a 2010 Fezzari Nebo Peak 26'r that I loved (other than busting rear spokes all the time). My Nebo died a gruesome death on my buddies bike rack at the hands of a Dodge Ram (literally and figuratively) pickup truck's front bumper and grill. The truck rear ended us in traffic after skidding 45 feet. I would have been content with the Nebo for years to come but the Dodge Ram forced me to rethink options. The guys insurance company paid me full price.

    I probably would have bought another Nebo but I didn't like that they don't offer a through-axle in the rear. Ironically, the Trance doesn't either. However, the Trance doesn't have pivot bearings near the wheel, so, it doesn't need a through axle to remain stiff. My guess is that customer perception will drive Giant into adding a rear through axle eventually whether its needed or not.

    I like a plush ride, don't mind the extra weight, and most of my fun comes from downhills (mostly of the XCish variety) and small jumps so the Trance is a good fit.

    I wanted to try out a Rumblefish and a Tallboy LT but was unable to get a demo to ride. After being very surprised how differently the bikes I rode felt, I'll be leery of buying a bike without riding it in the future. Its hard to say. I bought the Fezzari without riding it and it was an excellent fit and feel. I'll post a comparison review between the Nebo and the Trance after I get some miles on it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Buyer Beware - Giant Trance X 29er 0 marketing trick-trance_x_29er_0.jpg  


  2. #2
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    Dont those catalogs usually have a fine print that says "Photograph may differ from actual product."?
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  3. #3
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    I wouldn't call it a marketing trick. The promotional materials are printed up long before the production frames are built. It's pretty common for some part specs to change between the press photos and the production release.

  4. #4
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    Every manufacturer has a line or two at the bottom of each model's page about how the spec might change throughout the model year.

    This is pretty common knowledge.
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    It's foolish to assume what your getting by looking at a picture. For the fox ctd rear shock kashima coat is an option/upgrade. I don't see anywhere in the specs on the Trance X 29er 0 that specifies kashima coat so I wouldn't expect to see it on the actual bike.

  6. #6
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    Ouch For the $$ they want for that model I'd EXPECT both the shock and fork to have Kashima, seriously, it's a $4k> bike.
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  7. #7
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    This is the case with the santa cruz tallboy LTc also...
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  8. #8
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    you still got a deal.

  9. #9
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    Still waiting to throw a leg over one for a test ride. Don't know if I'm going to buy full suspension this year or ride the SS exclusively for a while longer.

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    I wonder if you would even notice the difference in a blind test. But it does suck especially since your LBS was surprised as well but they sound like good people and glad they took care of you.

    Not happy to hear your impression of the Satori since it is one of four bikes that I have narrowed it down to. The Trance does look like a really nice bike. Let us know how it rides.

  11. #11
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    Yeah, I think I'd expect it on a bike that cost that much as well. Hey, at least you got $4 worth of accessories though ;-)
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  12. #12
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    Aroundoz... Don't rule the Satori out. Bikes that my friends love, and I hated. I highly recommend riding a model before you buy. I guess I got lucky with my first bike, the Fezzari, since it felt great. I was surprised how different the different models actually feel..

    About showing Kashima then delivering standard, let's just say it's probably safe to say it RARELY, if ever happens the other direction. The website should either use a different picture or they should note the discrepancy. Its dishonest to keep a bait and switch on the site.

    And yes, my LBS took the hit for Giant's error. Big props to Clarksville Schwinn near Louisville KY.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tshulthise View Post
    Aroundoz... Don't rule the Satori out. Bikes that my friends love, and I hated. I highly recommend riding a model before you buy. I guess I got lucky with my first bike, the Fezzari, since it felt great. I was surprised how different the different models actually feel..

    About showing Kashima then delivering standard, let's just say it's probably safe to say it RARELY, if ever happens the other direction. The website should either use a different picture or they should note the discrepancy. Its dishonest to keep a bait and switch on the site.

    And yes, my LBS took the hit for Giant's error. Big props to Clarksville Schwinn near Louisville KY.
    It is not an error. The catalogs come out or need to produced well before the product comes out. So should Giant re-do the catalog when the correct shock comes out then pass the extra cost onto the Buyer? It has been like this ever since bike companies made catalogs. Bet you can find a problem in every single brand of bikes catalog. The descriptions are added last at the rear of the catalog and even then they can substitute parts as needed or available.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinning Lizard View Post
    It is not an error. The catalogs come out or need to produced well before the product comes out. So should Giant re-do the catalog when the correct shock comes out then pass the extra cost onto the Buyer?
    yeah, but, it would have taken about 10 minutes to photoshop the shock to look like the one he actually got and upload it to the online catalog. why not be accurate?

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    Struggling to understand why you think that say 4 square inches of Kashima coating is so important.

  16. #16
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    I don't think they should have advertised it on the website like that either, but didn't you look at the bike on the showroom floor/test ride it. The best way to tell what kind of bike and parts you are getting is to look between your legs when you are test riding it.
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    Did they just switch the picture on there website? No kashima online anymore.

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    Honestly, I'm surprised you still even bought the bike given that you cared about Kash coat. I guess a nice shock pump and a chain link is all it takes to buy some people off. I'm glad you managed to somehow put it in the past.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasnavy05 View Post
    I don't think they should have advertised it on the website like that either, but didn't you look at the bike on the showroom floor/test ride it. The best way to tell what kind of bike and parts you are getting is to look between your legs when you are test riding it.
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  20. #20
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    I rode an x1 version before I ordered the X0. The X1 pictures do not show the Kashima coating. The sales guy touted the Kashima coating on the X0. He was fooled by the picture too.

  21. #21
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    Think I agree with most here that looking at the photo and assuming that is what is on the bike is pretty naive. I read the specs on everything to ensure that I know what I am paying for, but very cool that the LBS was on your side and helped you out. That is the making of a good shop right there and good CS.

  22. #22
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    I have seen this with many bikes.
    They print the promotional materials prior to production and sometimes the components are slightly different. You need to read the what the specs are prior to purchase, not just look at the pictures.

  23. #23
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    It was nice of your lbs to "throw" in the shock pump that already comes with the bike...

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by vizsladog View Post
    It was nice of your lbs to "throw" in the shock pump that already comes with the bike...
    x2

    Every Giant bike used to come with a shockpump if needed for the suspension.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tshulthise View Post
    I rode an x1 version before I ordered the X0. The X1 pictures do not show the Kashima coating. The sales guy touted the Kashima coating on the X0. He was fooled by the picture too.
    Sounds like the saels guy at the shop dropped the ball if he touted the Kashima coating. Might be why the LBS "upgraded" him to the Kashima coated shock. If the sales guy "fell" for it as well I'd place the blame on the LBS for not making sure their sales staff knew what they were talking about. Bad LBS!
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by someone who does not understand the point of discussion boards and so left this as negative rep
    struggling with why you think it shouldn't be.
    Struggling to understand why you did not just ask this in the thread.
    You are the type of client Fox and all the other bike companies love. I have had Kashima coated and normal coated Foxes. The Kashima coating did absolutely nothing to improve my forks.
    But I will give you the gold colour looks pretty.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by tshulthise View Post
    The sales guy touted the Kashima coating on the X0.

    This is unacceptable. If the sales guy said it was on there (probably part of his sales pitch) then IMO the bike should have it. Or, you should be given a discount of some sort.

    BTW the shock pump should come with the bike to begin with.

    I think it would be pretty naive to assume that the picture is the correct spec of the bike, but if you asked the sales guy about it and he said it came with Kashima coating, then he should be held accountable.

    I mean if you can't ask the bike shop about the bike you are buying from them.....then who do you ask?
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  28. #28
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    its all about tha gold man

  29. #29
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    Good thing it didn't because I personally couldn't ride a Non-Kashima fork with a Kashima shock. Oh the horror.
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  30. #30
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    So Kashima coating... the LBS salesman touted it as a selling point (fooled him too, yeah right), it's pictured, but in reality it doesn't have it, and to make up for it, they gave you a shock pump that should have come with the bike in the first place? Hmm...

    Some of you people on here astound me with what you will just blow off... if something like this had happened to you when buying a car, you'd be pissed (who cares if it doesn't really have leather like in the ad picture, cloth feels the same thru your clothes). But since it's 'just' a $4k bike, most of you are on here making excuses for Giant and the LBS.

    Yeah I get it, sometimes the HW spec changes from mkting pic to sales floor... but we aren't talking about grips here - we are talking about a major component. Who cares if you can tell a diff between the kashima or not? Fox apparently thinks it makes a diff - they upcharge for it as a higher-spec'ed part.

    Where do you draw the line? "Who cares if it's X5 or X7 instead of X9 or X0? Who cares if the brakes are BB7s instead of hydros, they still stop you... Who cares if the wheels are a slightly lower spec than what's in the marking pic.. Who cares if it's a Rock Shox instead of a Fox Fork... You can't tell a difference anyway..."

    The whole thing just seems just a little bit sleazy to me, from Giants excuses (well, it doesn't actually SAY Kashima coated, in spite of the fact that we used that version to market it) to how the LBS basically hoped this guy wouldn't notice, and when he did, gave him something to which he should have gotten in the first place to make up for it.

    Just my opinion. For $4k I'd expect a little more. We arent talking $500 entry-level bike here.
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  31. #31
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    Its the fault of the store, its their job to know their product.

    its always a good idea to read the spec list carefully, but if it was used in the sales pitch the store should and (sounds like) did do something. I have never herd about this free shock pump thing though, **** if thats the case my LBS owes me 2... lol

    It is really too bad though, i work in sales and it happens from time to time. product specs change and no one tells you, and if something has been ordered for stock your trying to sell it before it comes in and you can catch the change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinGB View Post
    I have never herd about this free shock pump thing though, **** if thats the case my LBS owes me 2... lol.
    I've seen this at many different types of stores where they take parts that are supposed to come with a product and sell it to you as an extra!
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoisonDartFrog View Post
    So Kashima coating... the LBS salesman touted it as a selling point (fooled him too, yeah right), it's pictured, but in reality it doesn't have it, and to make up for it, they gave you a shock pump that should have come with the bike in the first place? Hmm...

    Some of you people on here astound me with what you will just blow off... if something like this had happened to you when buying a car, you'd be pissed (who cares if it doesn't really have leather like in the ad picture, cloth feels the same thru your clothes). But since it's 'just' a $4k bike, most of you are on here making excuses for Giant and the LBS.

    Yeah I get it, sometimes the HW spec changes from mkting pic to sales floor... but we aren't talking about grips here - we are talking about a major component. Who cares if you can tell a diff between the kashima or not? Fox apparently thinks it makes a diff - they upcharge for it as a higher-spec'ed part.

    Where do you draw the line? "Who cares if it's X5 or X7 instead of X9 or X0? Who cares if the brakes are BB7s instead of hydros, they still stop you... Who cares if the wheels are a slightly lower spec than what's in the marking pic.. Who cares if it's a Rock Shox instead of a Fox Fork... You can't tell a difference anyway..."

    The whole thing just seems just a little bit sleazy to me, from Giants excuses (well, it doesn't actually SAY Kashima coated, in spite of the fact that we used that version to market it) to how the LBS basically hoped this guy wouldn't notice, and when he did, gave him something to which he should have gotten in the first place to make up for it.

    Just my opinion. For $4k I'd expect a little more. We arent talking $500 entry-level bike here.
    Well if the Spec said it was to have all of that then yes, but reading above and the spec does not say that.
    They also probably have pics of people doing big jumps and people racing World Cup in their catalogue. Based on your comment suggesting that the pics should be what you get maybe we should all ***** at Giant next time we ride because our ride does not reflect what was pictured??

    Get a grip, it is a coating that has been sold to you guys as a must have; better than the old coating; cant do without it thing. Well it is not. It is a marketing gimmick and from my experience does nothing to improve my ride in any way, shape or form. I dont even recall the price going up when that coating was introduced, so what exactly do you think you should be reimbursed for?

  34. #34
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    God damn those Trance 29ers are ugly....
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sideknob View Post
    God damn those Trance 29ers are ugly....



    True, but they just feel "right".

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    See the highlight part.
    You think that is bad. Santa Cruz with the rolling changes, you really don't know what you're gonna get. I will say at least it's usually an improvement with them.

    I'd really like to know which bikes are coming with shock pumps? Fox stopped including them with aftermarket forks & shocks. Neither my Specialized or Santa Cruz came with one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tshulthise View Post
    Aroundoz... Don't rule the Satori out. Bikes that my friends love, and I hated. I highly recommend riding a model before you buy. I guess I got lucky with my first bike, the Fezzari, since it felt great. I was surprised how different the different models actually feel..

    About showing Kashima then delivering standard, let's just say it's probably safe to say it RARELY, if ever happens the other direction. The website should either use a different picture or they should note the discrepancy. Its dishonest to keep a bait and switch on the site.

    And yes, my LBS took the hit for Giant's error. Big props to Clarksville Schwinn near Louisville KY.
    We are neighbors.

    I have heard a lot of good stuff about the guys that run C'ville schwinn, but after the brown county demo I absolutely hated the Trance X. ended up ordering a rumblefish from the guys down the street.

  38. #38
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    Buy a rigid singlespeed next time.....no need for a shock pump and no Kashima coating to worry about....and more money left over for upgrades ( or beer )

  39. #39
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    I have been riding a rigid SS 29er for a long time... What the hell is Kashima coating???
    Sit and spin my ass...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zion Rasta View Post
    I have been riding a rigid SS 29er for a long time... What the hell is Kashima coating???

  41. #41
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    Kinda messed up, but it's just bling. Nice of your LBS to take the hit, especially because the salesman was touting the coating.

  42. #42
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    I got a x1. Only difference between the bikes is color and full xt.
    I already blew the front fork. I aske fox if the could upgraded to kashima. They don't have a 1.5"-1.25" kashima yet. Boo. I'm getting upgraded to the factory hopefully with remote.
    Still a better climber than my hard tail. Ps. If you can ride a rigid ss then u don't work hard enough in real life.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoisonDartFrog View Post
    So Kashima coating... the LBS salesman touted it as a selling point (fooled him too, yeah right), it's pictured, but in reality it doesn't have it, and to make up for it, they gave you a shock pump that should have come with the bike in the first place? Hmm...

    Some of you people on here astound me with what you will just blow off... if something like this had happened to you when buying a car, you'd be pissed (who cares if it doesn't really have leather like in the ad picture, cloth feels the same thru your clothes). But since it's 'just' a $4k bike, most of you are on here making excuses for Giant and the LBS.

    Yeah I get it, sometimes the HW spec changes from mkting pic to sales floor... but we aren't talking about grips here - we are talking about a major component. Who cares if you can tell a diff between the kashima or not? Fox apparently thinks it makes a diff - they upcharge for it as a higher-spec'ed part.

    Where do you draw the line? "Who cares if it's X5 or X7 instead of X9 or X0? Who cares if the brakes are BB7s instead of hydros, they still stop you... Who cares if the wheels are a slightly lower spec than what's in the marking pic.. Who cares if it's a Rock Shox instead of a Fox Fork... You can't tell a difference anyway..."

    The whole thing just seems just a little bit sleazy to me, from Giants excuses (well, it doesn't actually SAY Kashima coated, in spite of the fact that we used that version to market it) to how the LBS basically hoped this guy wouldn't notice, and when he did, gave him something to which he should have gotten in the first place to make up for it.

    Just my opinion. For $4k I'd expect a little more. We arent talking $500 entry-level bike here.
    fox got you, hook line and sinker.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spazdad View Post
    I got a x1. Only difference between the bikes is color and full xt.
    I already blew the front fork. I aske fox if the could upgraded to kashima. They don't have a 1.5"-1.25" kashima yet. Boo. I'm getting upgraded to the factory hopefully with remote.
    Still a better climber than my hard tail. Ps. If you can ride a rigid ss then u don't work hard enough in real life.
    In response to the "PS".....Work smarter not harder ....And by the way, after you tire of all of the big marketing BS and get a few years of riding experience under your belt you may discover rigid single speeds....... then you will no longer give a f**k about Kashima coating........I promise you

    And you won't need to worry about blowing the front fork either!

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    See the highlight part.
    You think that is bad. Santa Cruz with the rolling changes, you really don't know what you're gonna get. I will say at least it's usually an improvement with them.

    I'd really like to know which bikes are coming with shock pumps? Fox stopped including them with aftermarket forks & shocks. Neither my Specialized or Santa Cruz came with one.

    My Trek Fuel EX 8 came with a pump. It even states that in the specs on Trek's website.


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    Quote Originally Posted by borbntm View Post
    In response to the "PS".....Work smarter not harder ....And by the way, after you tire of all of the big marketing BS and get a few years of riding experience under your belt you may discover rigid single speeds....... then you will no longer give a f**k about Kashima coating........I promise you

    And you won't need to worry about blowing the front fork either!
    Agreed.
    My fully rigid SS is my go to bike.
    Even when I had a blinged out SC Tallboy.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Well if the Spec said it was to have all of that then yes, but reading above and the spec does not say that.
    They also probably have pics of people doing big jumps and people racing World Cup in their catalogue. Based on your comment suggesting that the pics should be what you get maybe we should all ***** at Giant next time we ride because our ride does not reflect what was pictured??

    Get a grip, it is a coating that has been sold to you guys as a must have; better than the old coating; cant do without it thing.

    If the spec says it doesn't have it so you ask the lbs if it does and they say yes, then I'm going to assume it does. And, it doesn't really matter if YOU think it is a useless product or marketing hype. The point is he paid for something that he didn't get.
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasnavy05 View Post
    If the spec says it doesn't have it so you ask the lbs if it does and they say yes, then I'm going to assume it does. And, it doesn't really matter if YOU think it is a useless product or marketing hype. The point is he paid for something that he didn't get.
    Kashima is not an upgrade and I paid no more for my Kashima coated Fox than I did for my non. He paid no more for it so he IS paying for what he got.
    And just because the store is staffed by monkey's who do not know the spec of the bikes they are selling does not mean that Giant should adjust their spec accordingly.

  49. #49
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    This thread should be re-titled "My LBS is staffed by morons who do not even know the spec of the very bikes that they are selling".

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    I dont understand what the big deal is. Your gonna bash giant because your local shop gave you false Information? Didnt you actually look at the bike before purchasing it? Unbeleivable. We are talking about a new coating on the shock which is 99.9% cosmetic, and 0.01% functional. Let me guess...your one of those people who only leave negative reviews online because you failed to use common sense.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Think I agree with most here that looking at the photo and assuming that is what is on the bike is pretty naive. I read the specs on everything to ensure that I know what I am paying for, but very cool that the LBS was on your side and helped you out. That is the making of a good shop right there and good CS.
    As if looking at the picture of the product on the outside of the box vs inside should actually be the same.

    As trivial as I think such a color detail is, I have to go with the consumer here, it's false advertising. Advertise what you sell. Change the spec .... I guess you have to print up some product revisions sheets or a new catalog. Maybe they did and the bike shop just didn't bother.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinning Lizard View Post
    It is not an error. The catalogs come out or need to produced well before the product comes out. So should Giant re-do the catalog when the correct shock comes out then pass the extra cost onto the Buyer?
    Yes, they should reprint the catalog or create inserts, or write better contracts with their supplier. How about if they advertised a white bike but they shipped you black. If you can visually discern the difference from the picture and it advertised as the model color, then they should supply it or not bother making pictures with the "Kashima coating", which apparently is a more expensive part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by willtsmith_nwi View Post
    As if looking at the picture of the product on the outside of the box vs inside should actually be the same.

    As trivial as I think such a color detail is, I have to go with the consumer here, it's false advertising. Advertise what you sell. Change the spec .... I guess you have to print up some product revisions sheets or a new catalog. Maybe they did and the bike shop just didn't bother.
    No need to make my bike more expensive because a few people can't be bothered to do minimal research on a bike and buy based on a picture.

    How do you decide on a size or travel based on a picture.
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  54. #54
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    The shock pump they gave you comes standard with all giant bikes with fox shocks as it did with my 12 reign.
    Yes is a bit of a trick on giants behalf, its a classic case of false advertising unless stated otherwise that it was a mistake in the catalogue or on their site...
    But the kashmina is basically a gimmic anyway, its just there for looks, just get out there on the bike n carve it up, its no big deal but i agree you have a right to be annoyed.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  55. #55
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    [QUOTE=Tone's;9843939]The shock pump they gave you comes standard with all giant bikes with fox shocks QUOTE]

    No, no it doesn't. It does in fact come with the bike in question but it only comes with high end bikes from giant and is a no name shock pump, regardless of whether the bike has Fox or Rock Shox.

    I agree they should have given him the pump anyways.
    I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah

  56. #56
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    well it is a high end giant bike and i called my buddy who owns a giant shop and he said it comes with a pump in the box

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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Kashima is not an upgrade and I paid no more for my Kashima coated Fox than I did for my non. He paid no more for it so he IS paying for what he got.
    And just because the store is staffed by monkey's who do not know the spec of the bikes they are selling does not mean that Giant should adjust their spec accordingly.
    Ok, maybe it isn't an "upgrade", but it is a different product, and Fox markets this coating as advanced technology.

    So he in fact did not get the product that he paid for.

    Use the car example again. You test ride a car, and decide that you want to order one, and the dealer says, "it will be a red one". Once the vehicle arrives you notice the the paint is green. The dealer says, "whoops, thought it was gonna be red. Here is a spare tire for your car for the wrong information"
    -It's time to shred some mild to moderate gnar!!

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasnavy05 View Post
    Ok, maybe it isn't an "upgrade", but it is a different product, and Fox markets this coating as advanced technology.

    So he in fact did not get the product that he paid for.

    Use the car example again. You test ride a car, and decide that you want to order one, and the dealer says, "it will be a red one". Once the vehicle arrives you notice the the paint is green. The dealer says, "whoops, thought it was gonna be red. Here is a spare tire for your car for the wrong information"
    Agreed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasnavy05 View Post
    Ok, maybe it isn't an "upgrade", but it is a different product, and Fox markets this coating as advanced technology.

    So he in fact did not get the product that he paid for.

    Use the car example again. You test ride a car, and decide that you want to order one, and the dealer says, "it will be a red one". Once the vehicle arrives you notice the the paint is green. The dealer says, "whoops, thought it was gonna be red. Here is a spare tire for your car for the wrong information"
    I could see it going either way. On one hand, the photo is misleading. On the other hand, the spec sheet on the Giant site lists "Fox Float CTD Boostvalve" as the spec on the bike - so the picture is wrong, but the spec is correct.

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    Car analogy is just a bad one.

    Second color is a different thing. Go to any car dealer and look at the tires. The same models will come with different brand tires. So go ahead and try the car I test drove had tires A and the one I ordered has tires B. Pretty sure we all know what the dealer will say.

    Sorry you're really clueless if you think ANY company is going to completely redo promotional items to account for small changes. Just not feasible.

    FYI read the highlight on the Ford's Fusion PDF and you'll find the same thing on just about any product site.

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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasnavy05 View Post
    Ok, maybe it isn't an "upgrade", but it is a different product, and Fox markets this coating as advanced technology.

    So he in fact did not get the product that he paid for.

    Use the car example again. You test ride a car, and decide that you want to order one, and the dealer says, "it will be a red one". Once the vehicle arrives you notice the the paint is green. The dealer says, "whoops, thought it was gonna be red. Here is a spare tire for your car for the wrong information"
    And again that is a problem with the shop monkey. Not the manufacturer.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Car analogy is just a bad one.

    Second color is a different thing. Go to any car dealer and look at the tires. The same models will come with different brand tires. So go ahead and try the car I test drove had tires A and the one I ordered has tires B. Pretty sure we all know what the dealer will say.

    Sorry you're really clueless if you think ANY company is going to completely redo promotional items to account for small changes. Just not feasible.

    FYI read the highlight on the Ford's Fusion PDF and you'll find the same thing on just about any product site.

    yeah, i couldn't come up with a great analogy, but you get the idea. And in the part you highlighted it says the dealer is the best source for up to date info. In this guys scenario that wasn't the case.

    I guess the lesson learned is...if you have a question you might want to bounce it off the lbs AND off of the manufacturer.
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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasnavy05 View Post
    I guess the lesson learned is...if you have a question you might want to bounce it off the lbs AND off of the manufacturer.
    That could be a lot of questions, huh? Making sure every componenet was as listed in the brochure? You wouldn't want to buy that bike and then find out it had BB5s or 28 hole rims on it or something.

  64. #64
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    Your reading comprehension is amazing.
    I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah

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    Quote Originally Posted by tshulthise View Post
    Just picked up my Giant Trance X 29er 0 from my LBS and I was disappointed to see that the rear shock does NOT have the Kashima coating even though the Giant catalog and their marketing materials all show it with the coating (see photo below from Giant's website). My LBS called his Giant sales rep to see what the mix-up was. The Giant rep said "the catalog photo is wrong". He did note that the specs for the shock in the marketing materials do not say that it has Kashima coating.

    My LBS was very cool about it and offered me a nice shock pump and quick chain link to cover the difference which I felt like was fair. However, I feel like Giant pulled a bait and switch...
    Dude.....really? If it does not say it in the brochure, then it aint so. As others said, the catalogs are made up way ahead of time, and they do sometimes have production run changes. You should have called and asked before you bought, ride it and enjoy.
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    I think that giant pretty much covered the bases with the description of the bike that lists the components. I would assume that if they changed something from the part list that it would be equivalent. Going from a factory series shock with kashima down to an evolution shock wouldn't really be equivalent.

    Doesn't really matter though since were talking about a picture and not the part list.

  67. #67
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    When I bought my 2011 Trance X3, the catalog and bikes for sale didn't match either. Crankset, headset and seat post clamp were all different. If you're going to spend a lot, have your eyes wide open.

    Over the years, I've gotten more than lost when things don't match product catalogs. Things always change during manufacturing as everything is so global now. It happens.

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    I have the 2013 GIANT FULL LINE CATALOG in front of me. At the top of every page in the specs section it says, "Specifications and availability subject to change without notice"

    Seems simple enough to me.

    And to those who say they should just reprint with new specs this catalog is 164 pages!

    At least you got a pump. I got the X2 and had to buy my own.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z4good View Post
    I have the 2013 GIANT FULL LINE CATALOG in front of me. At the top of every page in the specs section it says, "Specifications and availability subject to change without notice"

    Seems simple enough to me.

    And to those who say they should just reprint with new specs this catalog is 164 pages!

    At least you got a pump. I got the X2 and had to buy my own.
    I agree and disagree.

    1st buying something based off a picture and expecting what is in said picture is well naive. While I wish my Hardees' thick burger looked as good as it does on TV, especially the condiments holding the burger, reality is another story.

    Marketing aside you are right, it is totally unrealistic for anyone to reprint a 164 page catalog mid season. However who the hell solely relies on anything print these days. Sure parts and supplies are likely to change mid season, sometimes for the better.

    Lets be real though it isn't that difficult to update ones website. Think about it. You want all your eCommerce sites that sell you your biking wares to be 100% accurate in regards to description, price, and availability, Is it really that unreasonable that manufacturers don't keep their sites up to date through out the season? Some do a pretty good job at that, especailly some that offer different build kits with in a model.

    If I bought a $2000+ bike and I got parts that were different from the manufacturer's specification I would be pissed. Hell if I ordered a $200 bike and it didn't fit the description I'd be pissed. Is it really that unreasonable to expect to receive what you have ordered based on the seller's description?

    All that said basing your spec list off a picture instead of an actual part list doesn't give you much room to complain.

    **** it you got a better than good bike, go ride it until the wheels fall off.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattnmtns View Post
    I agree and disagree.

    1st buying something based off a picture and expecting what is in said picture is well naive. While I wish my Hardees' thick burger looked as good as it does on TV, especially the condiments holding the burger, reality is another story.

    Marketing aside you are right, it is totally unrealistic for anyone to reprint a 164 page catalog mid season. However who the hell solely relies on anything print these days. Sure parts and supplies are likely to change mid season, sometimes for the better.

    Lets be real though it isn't that difficult to update ones website. Think about it. You want all your eCommerce sites that sell you your biking wares to be 100% accurate in regards to description, price, and availability, Is it really that unreasonable that manufacturers don't keep their sites up to date through out the season? Some do a pretty good job at that, especailly some that offer different build kits with in a model.

    If I bought a $2000+ bike and I got parts that were different from the manufacturer's specification I would be pissed. Hell if I ordered a $200 bike and it didn't fit the description I'd be pissed. Is it really that unreasonable to expect to receive what you have ordered based on the seller's description?

    All that said basing your spec list off a picture instead of an actual part list doesn't give you much room to complain.

    **** it you got a better than good bike, go ride it until the wheels fall off.
    Good points!!

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    I based my purchase decision of my X0 (on order) by reading the specs and reviews, not by relying on pics. As for those who say it should come w/ Kashima b/c it's a $4K+ bike, what similarly priced bike w/ comparable suspension is spec'd better? It seems like a great value to me.

  72. #72
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    True

    I was in a Gaint dealer in Northern Virginia on Saturday and there were two sale persons(combined age probably 41years and 12 days) standing by the entry level Trance ($1.9k) flicking the frame and boasting how if was carbon!

    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    This thread should be re-titled "My LBS is staffed by morons who do not even know the spec of the very bikes that they are selling".

  73. #73
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    When I bought my Giant Anthem Advanced X29 0 from Giant this year, the spec changed several times before delivery.

    First it was supposed to come with Sram Rise 60 carbon wheels.

    Then it was coming with Giant carbon wheels

    Then it was coming with a 2013 Rock Shox solo air Sid

    When it arrived it had a 2012 Rock Shox dual air Sid.

    I was stoked. The dual air is MUCH better IMO.

    Sometimes it all works out.

    You bought a high end bike with high end parts. Are you really not happy?
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  74. #74
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    Carbon tallboy would be sick. I picked up the '12 rumblefish instead of the '13 and think its a pretty bad ride.

  75. #75
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    The customer is completely at fault at the end of the day. Sure the salesman probably should have known, but I am willing to bet theat Giant didn't send out an email saying there was a change made-they don't have to since they have the disclaimer in the catalog. The salesman is only wrong in this case because he should have read the specs rather than rely on the picture. What makes the customer at fault is that he did NOT have to take delivery of the bike if he thought he had a case (which legally he really does not) and I am sure the shop would have found a way to sell it, or get it back to Giant (a huge PIA).

    The shop took care of biz by helping you out with some swag in a way and taking some blame for thier mistake. The customer has not and could learn from the shop.

    IF Giant did halt production because they had to wait for Kashima coated shocks, this same guy would be on here carping because he had to wait six weeks to get his bike. That is why I left retail/customer service gigs far behind-too many people out there think that thier checkbook is a magic wand that makes all bow to them. The customer is not always right. Bleh to Giant. Kudos to the shop. Fail to the consumer.
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  76. #76
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    It's always the customer's fault on MTBR forums. Sitting back and watching the Vassago Black Friday thread unfold a couple of years ago taught me that.

    To the OP: next time you want to post a thread like this, instead, just go kick yourself in the balls.
    Mind your own religion.

  77. #77
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    Soo... how does it ride?
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstem View Post
    The customer is completely at fault at the end of the day. Sure the salesman probably should have known, but I am willing to bet theat Giant didn't send out an email saying there was a change made-they don't have to since they have the disclaimer in the catalog. The salesman is only wrong in this case because he should have read the specs rather than rely on the picture. What makes the customer at fault is that he did NOT have to take delivery of the bike if he thought he had a case (which legally he really does not) and I am sure the shop would have found a way to sell it, or get it back to Giant (a huge PIA).

    The shop took care of biz by helping you out with some swag in a way and taking some blame for thier mistake. The customer has not and could learn from the shop.

    IF Giant did halt production because they had to wait for Kashima coated shocks, this same guy would be on here carping because he had to wait six weeks to get his bike. That is why I left retail/customer service gigs far behind-too many people out there think that thier checkbook is a magic wand that makes all bow to them. The customer is not always right. Bleh to Giant. Kudos to the shop. Fail to the consumer.
    So true
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  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstem View Post
    That is why I left retail/customer service gigs far behind-too many people out there think that thier checkbook is a magic wand that makes all bow to them. The customer is not always right. Bleh to Giant. Kudos to the shop. Fail to the consumer.

    Customer is not always right. That is true, but the customer also holds all the cards in a transaction.

    If the customer decides to go to a different LBS, he still gets the same bike. But, the shop that runs customers off by giving out false information about their products, misses out on a sale. And, in the long run doesn't do very well.

    With your attitude I probably wouldn't want you to work at my retail/customer service gig anyway!
    -It's time to shred some mild to moderate gnar!!

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    To the OP: next time you want to post a thread like this, instead, just go kick yourself in the balls.[/QUOTE]

    Ouch!!! That's funny

    After going back and reading the OP's first post, its clear to me he wasn't really whining so much as making a point of buyer beware.

    He didn't make a big issue about it, and we shouldn't either. Lets ride!!!

  81. #81
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    Someone should probably tell this guy that kashima is not an upgrade.
    Got my bike back!
    "The best part is that they sent the frame with the Kashima coated rear shock. UPGRADE for me!"

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill in Houston View Post
    Someone should probably tell this guy that kashima is not an upgrade.
    Got my bike back!
    "The best part is that they sent the frame with the Kashima coated rear shock. UPGRADE for me!"
    Yep, he now has one more piece of marketing hype hanging off his bike.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spazdad View Post
    I got a x1. Only difference between the bikes is color and full xt.
    I already blew the front fork. I aske fox if the could upgraded to kashima. They don't have a 1.5"-1.25" kashima yet. Boo. I'm getting upgraded to the factory hopefully with remote.
    Still a better climber than my hard tail. Ps. If you can ride a rigid ss then u don't work hard enough in real life.
    The wheel set between the x1 and x0 is a major upgrade as well, that wheel set alone retails for close to a grand direct from Giant...P-TRX 29er 1 WheelSystem (WheelSystems) - Bike Gear | Giant Bicycles | United States

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