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  1. #1
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    Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.

    After a few Mooto-X, a Jones spaceframe, and an Indy Fab, I have ended up with my second Black Sheep. With my upcoming travels, the S&S couplers will be much appreciated.

    Let's see some other Black Sheep. I know that they are out there.

    JAH

    Last edited by xJAHx; 06-19-2009 at 09:57 AM.

  2. #2
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    Prelim photo. Just picked it up 36 hrs ago. Maiden voyage tonight.



    Last edited by The Squeaky Wheel; 06-19-2009 at 10:21 AM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by xJAHx
    After a few Mooto-X, a Jones spaceframe, and an Indy Fab, I have ended up with my second Black Sheep. With my upcoming travels, the S&S couplers will be much appreciated.

    Let's see some other Black Sheep. I know that they are out there.

    JAH

    What kind of rims are those?

  4. #4
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    Velocity VXC laced to Phil Wood hubs.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Prelim photo. Just picked it up 36 hrs ago. Maiden voyage tonight.

    very nice end result douchebag!

  6. #6
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    I'll play. I've posted pictures before, but I figure they belong here as well. Singlespeed mode and 8 speed Alfine:
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Prelim photo. Just picked it up 36 hrs ago. Maiden voyage tonight.



    That-A boy Squeaky I was hoping you was in on this thread....... How's she ride? CF.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Prelim photo. Just picked it up 36 hrs ago. Maiden voyage tonight.



    Nice Jones!!!


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    Nice Jones!!!


    Are non-swoopy Sheep allowed here?
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    Nice Jones!!!

    I prefer MoneSSheep

  11. #11
    bike geek
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    Here's my contribution. Originally owned by Mikesee, then by me, now by The Gambler who lives up the road from me.
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  12. #12
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    Noice Squeaker!!!

    Does James throw in some extra Jones stickers with that thing???
    Last edited by Aquaholic; 06-19-2009 at 07:09 PM.
    What the EFF is "All MOUNTAIN"???

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquaholic
    Noice Squeaker!!!

    Does James doesn't throw in some extra Jones stickers with that thing???
    I opted for the custom Jen Green custom MoneSSheep badge

  14. #14
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    I opted for the custom Jen Green custom MoneSSheep badge
    ignore them...they are all just jealous that what you have is actually an original, nor did you need a hammerschmidt to make it something special either. you must however include this pic


  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    ignore them...they are all just jealous that what you have is actually an original, nor did you need a hammerschmidt to make it something special either. you must however include this pic
    The water jetted blade is a nice touch


  16. #16
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    WOW those are awesome.
    How do they ride?
    Is there a web link?
    Pedal Dammit!

  17. #17
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    The water jetted blade is a nice touch
    i agree, plus, a Mones has no such nice touch, though if your posing requires looking like everybody else while riding around town, the Mones is a better choice

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    i agree, plus, a Mones has no such nice touch, though if your posing requires looking like everybody else while riding around town, the Mones is a better choice
    You think Jones invented the blade as well?

  19. #19
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    Interesting side chatter about the Jones/Mones/MoneSSheep. Is JJ on to something with his geometry? I owned a Woldhound with the same numbers, so obviously Fred endorsed that.

    Is JJ on to something with the truss fork and sweeping tubes? Some would argue that the sweeping tubes are just for show, and frankly, I am now preferring the evolving renditions by James. Each one continues to be custom.

    If we believe the hype, then of course other custom makers, and eventually the mass produced will follow this trend either in geometry and/or tube shaping.

    I must say that for the type of riding that I use this Sheep for, I prefer it over my old Jones. I was looking for a race-paced SS that was forgiving enough for extended use. In my old age (29), I am enjoying the compliance of the non-truss fork. Would I take it off of 4+ foot drops like JJ does with truss forks? Hell no. I just found a form that fits my function better.

    Interestingly, my Jones was the exact same build; the only thing that has changed is the frameset:


  20. #20
    Nat
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    Squeak, let us know how you like the handlebar.

    Mine did not work for me, but that's my own opinion. They're just garage filler now.

    The bike looks awesome.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    Squeak, let us know how you like the handlebar.

    Mine did not work for me, but that's my own opinion. They're just garage filler now.

    The bike looks awesome.
    I liked it when I demo'd it. Will let you know when I have more trail time. He's going to make me a one piece bar/stem when I have the reach/sweep/height where I want it. The current setup is a temp.

    Did you discuss it with James? I bet he'd reshape it for you. He's very accommodating about such things.

  22. #22
    uh, or something!
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    here goes.....

    my bs
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    Life is a drink and you get drunk.... when you're young.....

  23. #23
    uh, or something!
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    blacksheep

    in the sun....
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    Life is a drink and you get drunk.... when you're young.....

  24. #24
    Nat
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    I liked it when I demo'd it. Will let you know when I have more trail time. He's going to make me a one piece bar/stem when I have the reach/sweep/height where I want it. The current setup is a temp.

    Did you discuss it with James? I bet he'd reshape it for you. He's very accommodating about such things.
    I did not discuss it with James. I did what I usually do: I sulked around for a bit then bought something else.

    Now I'm hoping someone just out-of-the-blue asks to buy it from me.

  25. #25
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    Here is my other sheep in original form. I have yet to build the frameset up, but I am running through ideas.


  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny
    I'll play. I've posted pictures before, but I figure they belong here as well. Singlespeed mode and 8 speed Alfine:

    This one's my favorite

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by shanem
    This one's my favorite
    Not to sound like a jerk but that bike is actually my LEAST favorite Blacksheep..I think 1strong1's BlackSheep with the purple bits is to just die for...17lbs to boot......That thing is drop dead sexy............IMO....................CF.

  28. #28
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    Hey xJAHx,
    Here is a old pic of your new bike.


    I've posted my new one before but here is another one.

  29. #29
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    I really like the lines on your new ride, Pat.

    I have had your old bike on the trails twice now, and it is exactly what I wanted compared to my old Jones in regard to increased front end compliance and overall feel.

    I love the gusset that James added!

  30. #30
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    Do you want to sell the bar since its in the garage?

    Want to sell the bar?

  31. #31
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    Pat,
    I dig that 2nd pix. Looks Crosieresque...no?

  32. #32
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    there are times I do miss the comfort of unicrown fork esp. on the rough down hills however the faith gives me a bit more control.
    Nat,
    Give the handle bars a few rides. I was ready to get rid of mine after the first few rides and went so far as to buy a new set and ride them for about a week before I had to give MM bars another shot. Now I would not ride anything else In fact I'm waiting for James to finish my new bar stem combo. If nothing else call James I'll bet he would work something out with you.
    Pat

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Pat,
    I dig that 2nd pix. Looks Crosieresque...no?
    Exactly

  34. #34
    Nat
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    Quote Originally Posted by volkstech
    there are times I do miss the comfort of unicrown fork esp. on the rough down hills however the faith gives me a bit more control.
    Nat,
    Give the handle bars a few rides. I was ready to get rid of mine after the first few rides and went so far as to buy a new set and ride them for about a week before I had to give MM bars another shot. Now I would not ride anything else In fact I'm waiting for James to finish my new bar stem combo. If nothing else call James I'll bet he would work something out with you.
    Pat
    Thanks, but I'm long past the bars. I gave them enough time to know they aren't for me. The hand/brake positions did not suit me, that's all. Rather than have James re-bend them I'd just as soon get them into the hands of someone who wants them as-is.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by volkstech
    there are times I do miss the comfort of unicrown fork esp. on the rough down hills however the faith gives me a bit more control.
    Nat,
    Give the handle bars a few rides. I was ready to get rid of mine after the first few rides and went so far as to buy a new set and ride them for about a week before I had to give MM bars another shot. Now I would not ride anything else In fact I'm waiting for James to finish my new bar stem combo. If nothing else call James I'll bet he would work something out with you.
    Pat
    1st ride tonight....I don't know about the unicrown, but I was missing the Reba on my Eriksen. I'm hoping the learning curve is gentle


  36. #36
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    Ha, Squeaky. You will get used to the truss fork and riding rigid in general. For our ever rocky east coast trails, the truss was bone jarring and reminded me of my first MTB with an alloy fork.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by xJAHx
    Ha, Squeaky. You will get used to the truss fork and riding rigid in general. For our ever rocky east coast trails, the truss was bone jarring and reminded me of my first MTB with an alloy fork.
    I hope you're right.
    The Rocky Mtns aren't exactly smooth though.....

    I have a much better appreciation now for why Volkstech shakes out his hands at the end of one of our long descents.

  38. #38
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    Here's a couple. Love the way James bikes ride.
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    If you're lucky enough to be in the mountains,
    you're lucky enough.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by mello211
    in the sun....
    Man, I do like this bike. Not too fancy and not too simple. Just right, especially as a 1x9!

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    1st ride tonight....I don't know about the unicrown, but I was missing the Reba on my Eriksen. I'm hoping the learning curve is gentle

    Pretty bike. I hope it is vertically compliant and laterally stiff.

    I really like the lines of the frame itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  41. #41
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    Pretty bike. I hope it is vertically compliant and laterally stiff.

    I really like the lines of the frame itself.
    thanks...i helped him pick out a proper design

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    thanks...i helped him pick out a proper design
    Awesome. The lines look almost Lenzish.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  43. #43
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    Awesome. The lines look almost Lenzish.
    you should see the adorable drapes we picked out

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    you should see the adorable drapes we picked out
    Curious he didn't have them out for the pics?


  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    Awesome. The lines look almost Lenzish.
    Hey now, that was uncalled for.
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  46. #46
    Single Speed Junkie
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    What no Highrollers?
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  47. #47
    Kathleen in AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny
    I'll play. I've posted pictures before, but I figure they belong here as well. Singlespeed mode and 8 speed Alfine:
    I get lightheaded and dizzy every time I see this rig...

  48. #48
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    im sold if james can fit in a rear shock just like his ST highlight bike on dat curves....for now think i'll stick to my jones n coming soon rip9..

  50. #50
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    In transit and at my destination!
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  51. #51
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    Go on then I'll join in too.




  52. #52
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    Just rode my ti hard tail for the first time. I noticed an immediate pounding on my posterier compared to my FS. I don't know how you SS rigid guys do it. Props to you!

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostemple
    Just rode my ti hard tail for the first time. I noticed an immediate pounding on my posterier compared to my FS. I don't know how you SS rigid guys do it. Props to you!
    In my experience, it is all about changing the lines that you take. If you ride the rigid SS like you ride your 5" FS, you will get the crap beat out of you. However, if you pick your lines, rigid can be surprisingly comfortable.

    That being said, I much prefer my unicrown rigid fork from James over the truss style that I had previous on the Jones. The truss was too rigid for the type of riding I do.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel

    Is this a custom made frame? I don't see this frame design on blacksheepbikes.com

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by IntenseBran
    Is this a custom made frame? I don't see this frame design on blacksheepbikes.com
    Full custom. No pix of this on his website.

  56. #56
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    fully geared and squishy in the front


  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Full custom. No pix of this on his website.
    Care to share how much does it cost?? Thanks
    Time Doesn't Wait for No One, Have A Nice Day!!!

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by maman72
    Care to share how much does it cost?? Thanks
    Price varies depending on the degree of customization. I suggest you talk with James at Black Sheep.

  59. #59
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by maman72
    Care to share how much does it cost?? Thanks
    ...and James likely gave squeaky cornhole a discount to STFU and leave him alone. I honestly felt sorry for James while he was working with squeaky - nobody deserves that

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by maman72
    Care to share how much does it cost?? Thanks

    If you have to ask then you can't afford it

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    SS, right? If so, how do you tension the chain? I don't see an EBB, sliders, or the HALTS.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by cocheese
    SS, right? If so, how do you tension the chain? I don't see an EBB, sliders, or the HALTS.
    Telescoping chainstays. Very nice mechanism. I'll take a picture and post later.
    No creaking. Stays tight. So far so good.
    My friend (volkstech) has had this system for several mos without any problems and I don't know many people who ride more or harder than him.
    Last edited by The Squeaky Wheel; 07-10-2009 at 11:12 AM.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Telescoping chainstays. Very nice mechanism. I'll take a picture and post later.
    No creaking. Stays tight. So far so good.
    My friend (volkstech) has had this system for several mos without any problems and I don't know many people ride more or harder than him.
    Wow! No kidding!!! Wonder where he got that idea?
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    What the EFF is "All MOUNTAIN"???

  64. #64
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    You surprise me Aqua. I thought you were too old to remember what pu$$y looks like

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by driver bob
    If you have to ask then you can't afford it
    Will asking doesn't mean I can't afford it as I'm just trying to compare. Between this and jones. And I really can afford jones!!
    Time Doesn't Wait for No One, Have A Nice Day!!!

  66. #66
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by maman72
    Will asking doesn't mean I can't afford it as I'm just trying to compare. Between this and jones. And I really can afford jones!!
    there is no Jones, if you mean Mones, less than a Mones

  67. #67
    E30 Rollin'
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlespeedstu
    Go on then I'll join in too.



    Nice bike....I gotta ask you, how do you like the Halo Freedom Disc's? I'm looking to build up a new wheelset (geared out back) and have been thinking of going with those rims. I have a friend that runs them on both of his 26er's but was wondering how the 29er version is....thanks.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by maman72
    Will asking doesn't mean I can't afford it as I'm just trying to compare. Between this and jones. And I really can afford jones!!
    The Black Sheep is less expensive and you'll likely get it quicker.

  69. #69
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    Another Hardtail Sheep

    My Sheep in summer/fall mode. Will go rigid for the winter and spring.
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  70. #70
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    The Black Sheep is less expensive and you'll likely get it quicker.
    and while both retarded, squeaky may be slightly less retarded than aqua so another advantage to the sheep

  71. #71
    is buachail foighneach me
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    and as someone who owns neither, which makes me less subjectively objective, the black sheeps look a HELL of alot better.

  72. #72
    TRACKDADDY
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    First and original owner of xJAHx's new sheep I miss it and if he EVER wants to sell it I'll buy it back, I miss her!! :-(

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/track_d...7594412609480/
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    "On yere Bike!!!!",

    Brandon Lockwood, KCH Inc.
    Track Daddy Blog

  73. #73
    San Diego County
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    Brandon, that picture makes me want to skip work tomorrow and enjoy some of our rare SoCal mud Man, I would be in big trouble with so many people

  74. #74
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    It's nice to see this thread back up. looking at all these Sheep has me jonesn for my new Luna Vista, which should be here next week! Plus all the goodies!
    If you're lucky enough to be in the mountains,
    you're lucky enough.

  75. #75
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    My two Black Sheep frames suffer from an embarrassing lack of swoops and curves, but they still ride great. My first frame from James was designed around a Rohloff hub. The second is a dedicated single speed (actually requires the use of an ENO eccentric hub) with the major design feature being the ability to run a narrow Q-factor crank (I'm using a compact road crank). They both sport James made forks (one Ti and one steel) with 50 mm of offset, making for razor sharp handling with about 65 mm of trail.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.-bs-ss.jpg  

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    "The plural of anecdote is not data." -- Attributed to various people in a variety of forms, but always worth remembering...

  76. #76
    !Vamos, flaco!
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    Not a mountain bike but a Black Sheep with clearance up to 35mm.
    More pics: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/sho...d.php?t=196448
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.-imgp2539.jpg  

    Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.-imgp2523.jpg  

    "Fact is only what you believe; fact and fiction work as a team." Jack Johnson

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlespeedstu
    Go on then I'll join in too.

    stu,

    I'd risk what's left of the cartiledge in my knees and go single speed on a bike like that. That definitely made me discernably turgid.

  78. #78
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    New Black Sheep Bar/Stem

    I Just picked up my new Black Sheep bar/stem last week but the snow has kept me from really getting to try it out
    Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.-misc.3-032.jpg

    Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.-misc.3-033.jpg

  79. #79
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    Very nice! Can't wait for #3 to get here!
    If you're lucky enough to be in the mountains,
    you're lucky enough.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by volkstech
    I Just picked up my new Black Sheep bar/stem last week but the snow has kept me from really getting to try it out
    Click image for larger version. 

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  81. #81
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    Just adding Singer and my new race bikes to the flock.

    A sheep downunder




  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR
    I simply, absolutely love the lines on this bike!
    I think it's the way the TT just flows unimpeded into the seatstays... waaaay sweeet!
    ...just gave me goosebumps
    If I had the moolah for a custom job, this can serve as the template for it
    Better to have and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

  83. #83
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    been sitting here looking at my New Luna Vista (2 weeks old) with the sliding stays/Belt drive and the 1 piece stem/Bar combo... Now if Only the wheels would show up... They say next week. once she is complete I will post the pics.
    If you don't live for something,
    You will die for NOTHING!!

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1Gel
    I simply, absolutely love the lines on this bike!
    I think it's the way the TT just flows unimpeded into the seatstays... waaaay sweeet!
    ...just gave me goosebumps
    If I had the moolah for a custom job, this can serve as the template for it
    Yes Exactly!!!!!!... Shannon and James have outdone themselves.
    If you ever decide to do it, feel free to PM me for the original design drawings.

  85. #85
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Telescoping chainstays. Very nice mechanism. I'll take a picture and post later.
    No creaking. Stays tight. So far so good.
    My friend (volkstech) has had this system for several mos without any problems and I don't know many people ride more or harder than him.

    Wow! No kidding!!! Wonder where he got that idea?
    Attached Images

    Hmmmm, i also been sitting here looking at all this hype, reading all these posts, remembering how i almost ordered the stellar. almost.... good thing i did not. had enough time to go over both builders and their creations. here i fully agree with Aquaholic and his pic of a copy machine. maybe some black sheeps are not bad looking bikes, but if you are searching for function in those tubes and bends, it will be hard to find.
    JJ's Spaceframe, h-bar, truss fork are all there for their function, not aesthetics.

  86. #86
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    Don't crucify me for pissing on your parade, but I want to present a dissenting opinion.

    First, though; you all have the most beautiful bikes. Works of art not doubt; to behold and admire. Congratulations to you all...

    BUT:

    ** Curved tube set implies more material by design, thus more weight.
    ** Curved tube set is not as strong as straight tubes, thus to compensate the builder must employ heavier set. Again, more weight (if this is implemented).

    So, having shopped around, and drooled over James' and Jeff's creation, I concluded, based on my conversation with other experienced builders, that with curved tubes I would pay premium for more weight, and potentially weaker frame. All these set backs for the sheer sake of esthetics.

    I'll pass...

  87. #87
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    James builds some stunning art. He's the Sacha White of mountain biking.

  88. #88
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    Too bad you didn't order the Stellar. Fabulous riding bike.

    More material? So what. I'm 195# w/o gear. If I want to lose a pound, I'll take a leak.

    Aesthetics are great as long as form meets or exceeds function. James' and Jeff's bikes both qualify in that regard. Why not have your cake and eat it too?

    If you don't like them, that's cool, but this is what we choose.

    BTW - I don't ride a jones because I like to ride suspension forks from time to time. My old wrists get cranky riding rigid all the time!
    If you're lucky enough to be in the mountains,
    you're lucky enough.

  89. #89
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    Love both of those guys frames, but find both outside my $$ range, but do dream of maybe owning one one day. Got to ask, who was this Non-Biased 3rd party builder imparting his knowledge on you, wouldn't happen that these 2 guys are his direct competition? I generaly tend to not believe anyone who has a vested interest in something and instead ask ones who've actually paid for the products and are a bit more honest since it was their hard earned cash they had to part with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Climber999
    Don't crucify me for pissing on your parade, but I want to present a dissenting opinion.
    First, though; you all have the most beautiful bikes. Works of art not doubt; to behold and admire. Congratulations to you all...
    BUT:
    ** Curved tube set implies more material by design, thus more weight.
    ** Curved tube set is not as strong as straight tubes, thus to compensate the builder must employ heavier set. Again, more weight (if this is implemented).
    So, having shopped around, and drooled over James' and Jeff's creation, I concluded, based on my conversation with other experienced builders, that with curved tubes I would pay premium for more weight, and potentially weaker frame. All these set backs for the sheer sake of esthetics.

    I'll pass...
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  90. #90
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    Got to ask, who was this Non-Biased 3rd party builder imparting his knowledge on you, wouldn't happen that these 2 guys are his direct competition?
    This is a fair question, and I will not disclose their names to be fair with them.

    HOWEVER: I never inquired with them about Blacksheep or Jones, nor their opinion of the aforementioned. Those named never came up. The three reputable, upstanding builders I interviewed work with curved tubes themselves (one merely dabbles in it) and enumerated for me the pros and cons of a bent curve set. All three highlighted weight and strength as drawbacks, while pointing out what a beautiful designs they came up with. They left it up to me what route I preferred to take.

    By the way, I shared your dream for a Jones or a Blacksheep and even now when I see the beautiful images regret that practicality and pragmatism trump esthetic.

  91. #91
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    Practicality and pragmatism? I understand it is an investment, but riding a bike is about fun and enjoyment, too. I've had a Highlight and Stellar. Both ride exceptionally, but different. You're saying different, curvy tubesets don't offer a change in ride. Have you ever ridden bikes like this? Have these other builders?

    I'm expecting a Luna Vista any day now. I fully expect it to ride as different as the other two.

    If you don't like this look, that's ok. It's not for everyone. But give feedback based on what you know, not what someone else says.
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    you're lucky enough.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Climber999
    They left it up to me what route I preferred to take.
    I think you said it all right here, I have worked my way through quite a few bicycles and have enjoyed what each one brought to the table. Then one day I made the mistake of riding Aqua's Jones. It is an amazing bike and it really got me started thinking about curvy tubed ti bikes and how different it felt when ridden. So started a few conversations with both builders and when They left up to me I preferred to take this route

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    You will die for NOTHING!!

  93. #93
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    Good job!

    Thanks for the response, makes perfect sense, just wanted to make sure it wasn't coming from some builder who was comparing himself to either of those companies and bashing them as competition.

    As others have said though, unless you ride one you'll never know I've never riden one, so right now I don't know what it's like and I certainly wouldn't plonk down cash for one without riding one as personally some of the curvy designs just isn't my taste - have to say the last 2 posted do appeal to me though, the lines flow really nicely and the curviness isn't over done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Climber999
    This is a fair question, and I will not disclose their names to be fair with them.

    HOWEVER: I never inquired with them about Blacksheep or Jones, nor their opinion of the aforementioned. Those named never came up. The three reputable, upstanding builders I interviewed work with curved tubes themselves (one merely dabbles in it) and enumerated for me the pros and cons of a bent curve set. All three highlighted weight and strength as drawbacks, while pointing out what a beautiful designs they came up with. They left it up to me what route I preferred to take.

    By the way, I shared your dream for a Jones or a Blacksheep and even now when I see the beautiful images regret that practicality and pragmatism trump esthetic.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  94. #94
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    Practicality and pragmatism? I understand it is an investment, but riding a bike is about fun and enjoyment, too. I've had a Highlight and Stellar. Both ride exceptionally, but different. You're saying different, curvy tubesets don't offer a change in ride. Have you ever ridden bikes like this? Have these other builders?
    No need to boil...Enjoy your bike and have fun. By the way, I love -- just love -- how they look...Maybe one day I'll buy one just to furnish my living room....However, in terms of riding, in my book paying more money for heavier bike that is possibly as not as strong as a straight tube bike is not pragmatic.

    Also, worth noting; on this board, everybody, and I mean everybody, with decent frame raves how it rides (great handing, incredible climber, absorb chatters like a lump of butter, bla, bla, bla.) Draw your own conclusions...

  95. #95
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    Not boiling at all. Just making the point, if you haven't ridden one for any period of time, don't act like you know how they ride, how strong they are, etc.

    BTW - my Stellar weighs 21# with Flows and 2.55 WW's. Nothing WW about the build. The Highlight was 19# with Flows and WW's. Light by anyones standard. Both with 24.5'" TT.
    If you're lucky enough to be in the mountains,
    you're lucky enough.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeT
    My two Black Sheep frames suffer from an embarrassing lack of swoops and curves, but they still ride great. My first frame from James was designed around a Rohloff hub. The second is a dedicated single speed (actually requires the use of an ENO eccentric hub) with the major design feature being the ability to run a narrow Q-factor crank (I'm using a compact road crank). They both sport James made forks (one Ti and one steel) with 50 mm of offset, making for razor sharp handling with about 65 mm of trail.

    Love the second one. The others look great, but I can't get my eyes used to the curves and swoop frames. This one has a nice traditional look to it.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by azjonboy
    BTW - my Stellar weighs 21# with Flows and 2.55 WW's. Nothing WW about the build. The Highlight was 19# with Flows and WW's. Light by anyones standard. Both with 24.5'" TT.
    First, Climber999 seems to be an experienced troller -- the whole "No need to boil" comment to a very reasoned response to his comments is pretty petty...

    Second, my "straight-tubed" BS bikes weigh in at 24.5 (Rohloff'd) and 20.5 (SS) lbs, respectively -- seems to me the "extra weight" of the curved tubes claim is a red herring. And the strength thing is also a pretty silly argument -- anyone who has seen the photos of Aqua or Jeff Jones launching would find it hard to buy into the "weaker" argument. There's "theoretical" and then there's "real world" strength...

    I'm old enough to be more at home with a standard type frame, but there is no denying the appeal of James' curved frames to me...
    "The plural of anecdote is not data." -- Attributed to various people in a variety of forms, but always worth remembering...

  98. #98
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    I'll ignore the trolling insult. It takes one to know one, and I don't intend to know you.

    To the point: a straight line will always be shorter than a curved line, thus requiring less material. If a builder used the same tube set and same geometry as your specific bike and bent one tube, but still kept the end points at the same distance, you'll have on your hands a heavier bike. If this is a "red herring" for you, either go back to school and refresh you geometry or just go fishing for herrings...

    About your strength argument, you might be right--might be real life stress on the frame does not push it to its limit. Nevertheless, as you pointed out, in theory straight tubes can withstand those stresses better then curved tubes. Apparently, those frame don't shatter left and right so I suppose they do their job under most conditions.

  99. #99
    jmw
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    any BS Highrollers??


    I'm excited to check out the Black Sheep booth when they come to Richmond VA later this month for the NAHMBS....
    future nature

  100. #100
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    You'll love James' designs! His welds are also fanatastic.

    PeT - he just loves to play the troll. If he ever buys a curvy tubed bike, he might learn something..... Nah, his kind don't.
    If you're lucky enough to be in the mountains,
    you're lucky enough.

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