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  1. #76
    !Vamos, flaco!
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    Not a mountain bike but a Black Sheep with clearance up to 35mm.
    More pics: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/sho...d.php?t=196448
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.-imgp2539.jpg  

    Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.-imgp2523.jpg  

    "Fact is only what you believe; fact and fiction work as a team." Jack Johnson

  2. #77
    Fragglepuss The Chaste
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlespeedstu
    Go on then I'll join in too.

    stu,

    I'd risk what's left of the cartiledge in my knees and go single speed on a bike like that. That definitely made me discernably turgid.

  3. #78
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    New Black Sheep Bar/Stem

    I Just picked up my new Black Sheep bar/stem last week but the snow has kept me from really getting to try it out
    Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.-misc.3-032.jpg

    Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.-misc.3-033.jpg

  4. #79
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    Very nice! Can't wait for #3 to get here!
    If you're lucky enough to be in the mountains,
    you're lucky enough.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by volkstech
    I Just picked up my new Black Sheep bar/stem last week but the snow has kept me from really getting to try it out
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Holy...sh*t...I think I just ruined my keyboard

  6. #81
    TR
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    Just adding Singer and my new race bikes to the flock.

    A sheep downunder




  7. #82
    Baby Bear is in the house
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR
    I simply, absolutely love the lines on this bike!
    I think it's the way the TT just flows unimpeded into the seatstays... waaaay sweeet!
    ...just gave me goosebumps
    If I had the moolah for a custom job, this can serve as the template for it
    Better to have and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

  8. #83
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    been sitting here looking at my New Luna Vista (2 weeks old) with the sliding stays/Belt drive and the 1 piece stem/Bar combo... Now if Only the wheels would show up... They say next week. once she is complete I will post the pics.
    If you don't live for something,
    You will die for NOTHING!!

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1Gel
    I simply, absolutely love the lines on this bike!
    I think it's the way the TT just flows unimpeded into the seatstays... waaaay sweeet!
    ...just gave me goosebumps
    If I had the moolah for a custom job, this can serve as the template for it
    Yes Exactly!!!!!!... Shannon and James have outdone themselves.
    If you ever decide to do it, feel free to PM me for the original design drawings.

  10. #85
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    Telescoping chainstays. Very nice mechanism. I'll take a picture and post later.
    No creaking. Stays tight. So far so good.
    My friend (volkstech) has had this system for several mos without any problems and I don't know many people ride more or harder than him.

    Wow! No kidding!!! Wonder where he got that idea?
    Attached Images

    Hmmmm, i also been sitting here looking at all this hype, reading all these posts, remembering how i almost ordered the stellar. almost.... good thing i did not. had enough time to go over both builders and their creations. here i fully agree with Aquaholic and his pic of a copy machine. maybe some black sheeps are not bad looking bikes, but if you are searching for function in those tubes and bends, it will be hard to find.
    JJ's Spaceframe, h-bar, truss fork are all there for their function, not aesthetics.

  11. #86
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    Don't crucify me for pissing on your parade, but I want to present a dissenting opinion.

    First, though; you all have the most beautiful bikes. Works of art not doubt; to behold and admire. Congratulations to you all...

    BUT:

    ** Curved tube set implies more material by design, thus more weight.
    ** Curved tube set is not as strong as straight tubes, thus to compensate the builder must employ heavier set. Again, more weight (if this is implemented).

    So, having shopped around, and drooled over James' and Jeff's creation, I concluded, based on my conversation with other experienced builders, that with curved tubes I would pay premium for more weight, and potentially weaker frame. All these set backs for the sheer sake of esthetics.

    I'll pass...

  12. #87
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    James builds some stunning art. He's the Sacha White of mountain biking.

  13. #88
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    Too bad you didn't order the Stellar. Fabulous riding bike.

    More material? So what. I'm 195# w/o gear. If I want to lose a pound, I'll take a leak.

    Aesthetics are great as long as form meets or exceeds function. James' and Jeff's bikes both qualify in that regard. Why not have your cake and eat it too?

    If you don't like them, that's cool, but this is what we choose.

    BTW - I don't ride a jones because I like to ride suspension forks from time to time. My old wrists get cranky riding rigid all the time!
    If you're lucky enough to be in the mountains,
    you're lucky enough.

  14. #89
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    Love both of those guys frames, but find both outside my $$ range, but do dream of maybe owning one one day. Got to ask, who was this Non-Biased 3rd party builder imparting his knowledge on you, wouldn't happen that these 2 guys are his direct competition? I generaly tend to not believe anyone who has a vested interest in something and instead ask ones who've actually paid for the products and are a bit more honest since it was their hard earned cash they had to part with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Climber999
    [SIZE="1"]Don't crucify me for pissing on your parade, but I want to present a dissenting opinion.
    First, though; you all have the most beautiful bikes. Works of art not doubt; to behold and admire. Congratulations to you all...
    BUT:
    ** Curved tube set implies more material by design, thus more weight.
    ** Curved tube set is not as strong as straight tubes, thus to compensate the builder must employ heavier set. Again, more weight (if this is implemented).
    So, having shopped around, and drooled over James' and Jeff's creation, I concluded, based on my conversation with other experienced builders, that with curved tubes I would pay premium for more weight, and potentially weaker frame. All these set backs for the sheer sake of esthetics.

    I'll pass...[/SIZE]
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
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  15. #90
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    Got to ask, who was this Non-Biased 3rd party builder imparting his knowledge on you, wouldn't happen that these 2 guys are his direct competition?
    This is a fair question, and I will not disclose their names to be fair with them.

    HOWEVER: I never inquired with them about Blacksheep or Jones, nor their opinion of the aforementioned. Those named never came up. The three reputable, upstanding builders I interviewed work with curved tubes themselves (one merely dabbles in it) and enumerated for me the pros and cons of a bent curve set. All three highlighted weight and strength as drawbacks, while pointing out what a beautiful designs they came up with. They left it up to me what route I preferred to take.

    By the way, I shared your dream for a Jones or a Blacksheep and even now when I see the beautiful images regret that practicality and pragmatism trump esthetic.

  16. #91
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    Practicality and pragmatism? I understand it is an investment, but riding a bike is about fun and enjoyment, too. I've had a Highlight and Stellar. Both ride exceptionally, but different. You're saying different, curvy tubesets don't offer a change in ride. Have you ever ridden bikes like this? Have these other builders?

    I'm expecting a Luna Vista any day now. I fully expect it to ride as different as the other two.

    If you don't like this look, that's ok. It's not for everyone. But give feedback based on what you know, not what someone else says.
    If you're lucky enough to be in the mountains,
    you're lucky enough.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Climber999
    They left it up to me what route I preferred to take.
    I think you said it all right here, I have worked my way through quite a few bicycles and have enjoyed what each one brought to the table. Then one day I made the mistake of riding Aqua's Jones. It is an amazing bike and it really got me started thinking about curvy tubed ti bikes and how different it felt when ridden. So started a few conversations with both builders and when They left up to me I preferred to take this route

    If you don't live for something,
    You will die for NOTHING!!

  18. #93
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    Good job!

    Thanks for the response, makes perfect sense, just wanted to make sure it wasn't coming from some builder who was comparing himself to either of those companies and bashing them as competition.

    As others have said though, unless you ride one you'll never know I've never riden one, so right now I don't know what it's like and I certainly wouldn't plonk down cash for one without riding one as personally some of the curvy designs just isn't my taste - have to say the last 2 posted do appeal to me though, the lines flow really nicely and the curviness isn't over done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Climber999
    This is a fair question, and I will not disclose their names to be fair with them.

    HOWEVER: I never inquired with them about Blacksheep or Jones, nor their opinion of the aforementioned. Those named never came up. The three reputable, upstanding builders I interviewed work with curved tubes themselves (one merely dabbles in it) and enumerated for me the pros and cons of a bent curve set. All three highlighted weight and strength as drawbacks, while pointing out what a beautiful designs they came up with. They left it up to me what route I preferred to take.

    By the way, I shared your dream for a Jones or a Blacksheep and even now when I see the beautiful images regret that practicality and pragmatism trump esthetic.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
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  19. #94
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    Practicality and pragmatism? I understand it is an investment, but riding a bike is about fun and enjoyment, too. I've had a Highlight and Stellar. Both ride exceptionally, but different. You're saying different, curvy tubesets don't offer a change in ride. Have you ever ridden bikes like this? Have these other builders?
    No need to boil...Enjoy your bike and have fun. By the way, I love -- just love -- how they look...Maybe one day I'll buy one just to furnish my living room....However, in terms of riding, in my book paying more money for heavier bike that is possibly as not as strong as a straight tube bike is not pragmatic.

    Also, worth noting; on this board, everybody, and I mean everybody, with decent frame raves how it rides (great handing, incredible climber, absorb chatters like a lump of butter, bla, bla, bla.) Draw your own conclusions...

  20. #95
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    Not boiling at all. Just making the point, if you haven't ridden one for any period of time, don't act like you know how they ride, how strong they are, etc.

    BTW - my Stellar weighs 21# with Flows and 2.55 WW's. Nothing WW about the build. The Highlight was 19# with Flows and WW's. Light by anyones standard. Both with 24.5'" TT.
    If you're lucky enough to be in the mountains,
    you're lucky enough.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeT
    My two Black Sheep frames suffer from an embarrassing lack of swoops and curves, but they still ride great. My first frame from James was designed around a Rohloff hub. The second is a dedicated single speed (actually requires the use of an ENO eccentric hub) with the major design feature being the ability to run a narrow Q-factor crank (I'm using a compact road crank). They both sport James made forks (one Ti and one steel) with 50 mm of offset, making for razor sharp handling with about 65 mm of trail.

    Love the second one. The others look great, but I can't get my eyes used to the curves and swoop frames. This one has a nice traditional look to it.

  22. #97
    PeT
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    Quote Originally Posted by azjonboy
    BTW - my Stellar weighs 21# with Flows and 2.55 WW's. Nothing WW about the build. The Highlight was 19# with Flows and WW's. Light by anyones standard. Both with 24.5'" TT.
    First, Climber999 seems to be an experienced troller -- the whole "No need to boil" comment to a very reasoned response to his comments is pretty petty...

    Second, my "straight-tubed" BS bikes weigh in at 24.5 (Rohloff'd) and 20.5 (SS) lbs, respectively -- seems to me the "extra weight" of the curved tubes claim is a red herring. And the strength thing is also a pretty silly argument -- anyone who has seen the photos of Aqua or Jeff Jones launching would find it hard to buy into the "weaker" argument. There's "theoretical" and then there's "real world" strength...

    I'm old enough to be more at home with a standard type frame, but there is no denying the appeal of James' curved frames to me...
    "The plural of anecdote is not data." -- Attributed to various people in a variety of forms, but always worth remembering...

  23. #98
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    I'll ignore the trolling insult. It takes one to know one, and I don't intend to know you.

    To the point: a straight line will always be shorter than a curved line, thus requiring less material. If a builder used the same tube set and same geometry as your specific bike and bent one tube, but still kept the end points at the same distance, you'll have on your hands a heavier bike. If this is a "red herring" for you, either go back to school and refresh you geometry or just go fishing for herrings...

    About your strength argument, you might be right--might be real life stress on the frame does not push it to its limit. Nevertheless, as you pointed out, in theory straight tubes can withstand those stresses better then curved tubes. Apparently, those frame don't shatter left and right so I suppose they do their job under most conditions.

  24. #99
    jmw
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    any BS Highrollers??


    I'm excited to check out the Black Sheep booth when they come to Richmond VA later this month for the NAHMBS....
    future nature

  25. #100
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    You'll love James' designs! His welds are also fanatastic.

    PeT - he just loves to play the troll. If he ever buys a curvy tubed bike, he might learn something..... Nah, his kind don't.
    If you're lucky enough to be in the mountains,
    you're lucky enough.

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