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  1. #101
    TR
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    If curves are heavier and weaker then why the move to hydroforming and curved carbon fibre frames such as the Stumpy's and new Air9??

    24lb for my big boy bike is not too bad especiallly when I dont have weight weenie wheels (Hopes to Arch) and with tubes installed rather than tubeless.

  2. #102
    jmw
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    boy, this thread sure has gotten jacked!
    (like many do on mtbr....)

    future nature

  3. #103
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    anyone break one

    Gorgeous stuff, but I got to ask the "flock" anyone else breaking these?

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Climber999
    I'll ignore the trolling insult. It takes one to know one, and I don't intend to know you.

    To the point: a straight line will always be shorter than a curved line, thus requiring less material. If a builder used the same tube set and same geometry as your specific bike and bent one tube, but still kept the end points at the same distance, you'll have on your hands a heavier bike. If this is a "red herring" for you, either go back to school and refresh you geometry or just go fishing for herrings...

    About your strength argument, you might be right--might be real life stress on the frame does not push it to its limit. Nevertheless, as you pointed out, in theory straight tubes can withstand those stresses better then curved tubes. Apparently, those frame don't shatter left and right so I suppose they do their job under most conditions.
    You make some good points, but some of your thinking is flawed as well. Yes, a bent tube will be slightly heavier than a straight tube connecting the same points. It may or may not be weaker though, it all depends on the direction of the stresses involved. In some situations the bent tubes are actually stronger, and can be made lighter because of that. Also, there may be other reasons for the curves than just asthetics. The Jones bikes are all about function first. All his bent tubes are there for reason, and that reason is not for looks. On my BS, every tube is bent except the headtube, but they are all bent for specific reasons. The seatstays are double bent to provide compliance, and yes it is very noticeable. The top tube is bent to provide extra standover clearance for emergency dismounts. The downtube is curved to provide fork clearance. The seattube is bent to allow short chainstays, proper front der. alignment, and a slack ST angle. The little connector tube between the top and down tubes is there to strengthen the whole top/down/head tube junction. Actually, I just made up the last one, I really just like the way that one looks!

    Mark
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  5. #105
    ogarajef@luther.edu
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    Quote Originally Posted by wookieone
    Gorgeous stuff, but I got to ask the "flock" anyone else breaking these?
    I did.
    "RIDE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT"

  6. #106
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    where

    Where did it break? I broke the same frame twice, headtube to downtube weld both times, kinda brings the party music to a standstill if ya know what I mean. Jefe

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by wookieone
    I broke the same frame twice
    I broke the same Moots frame twice and the replacement once. Too many people have had great experiences with Moots for me to diss them -- just my bad luck I guess. I've got many more miles on my BS frames than I had on the Moots' -- what that means about quality or luck, I don't really know. What I do know is that James' actually made a fix on one of the Moots that has held up (under my wife's inconsiderable weight and mellow riding style) and created two unique (although they may not look it) frames that fit me to a T for a very reasonable price. My BS party is still going...
    "The plural of anecdote is not data." -- Attributed to various people in a variety of forms, but always worth remembering...

  8. #108
    ogarajef@luther.edu
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    Quote Originally Posted by wookieone
    Where did it break? I broke the same frame twice, headtube to downtube weld both times, kinda brings the party music to a standstill if ya know what I mean. Jefe
    Same place, but I didn't get a chance to ride it again.
    "RIDE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT"

  9. #109
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    paid SPAM

    I have one for sale if anyone is intersted -

    http://classifieds.mtbr.com/showprod...uct=46877&cat=


  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1strongone1
    Same place, but I didn't get a chance to ride it again.
    Broke mine twice, once at the HT/DT junction and once at the 'sex tube' down tube junction on both sides of the weld. If it breaks again, James said he will replace the whole frame. Both times he fixed it within two days, adding a gusset to the HT/DT. Mine was one of the earlier frames and I think he was still working out the kinks. He was very standup about the issues and said he didn't want to keep 'band-aiding' the problems. Shite happens, it just happened to be my frame.

  11. #111
    Wandering not Lost
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    Few of my sheep

    loaded for the weekend



    unloaded:




  12. #112
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    I cracked a weld on a steel BS back in 2003.
    Sold it.
    --------- __o
    ------- _`\<,_
    ------ (*)/ (*)
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    Running is for prey.

  13. #113
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    My 2c

    I would like to weigh in on Azjonboy, Pet and Climber999 comments. Not trying to perpetuate the tangent that this thread went on, but perhaps I can give an opinion of someone who's ridden several of the bikes in question.
    Over the years I've owned several "traditional" tubed titanium bikes both 26 and 29. I owned a Litespeed Obed 26er, a Kona King Kahuna ti 26er, then a Moots Rigor Mootis 29er.
    Now I own a Blacksheep Highlight 1X9 29er and a Blacksheep Highroller (with high light tubes) that is set up as a SS.
    I've also ridden my friends Jones Space frame with truss fork.

    Admittedly I bought my sheep because of esthetics mainly, but trust me, the ride is SO much better than the double triangle tubed bikes that I owned previously. I really felt the Moots was the stiffest (non compliant) of all these frames. The BS frames feel much more vertically compliant while feeling laterally stiff. I honestly can't explain it, except to say that you really just need to ride one for a while (like 2-3 minutes) to convince you. I could tell the difference when I first jumped on my BS and rode in the driveway, seriously.

    Here's the kicker, the frames all weighed within .2 lbs of the other! (and the Moots wasn't the lightest) All of my 29er ti bikes when built as SS/rigid fork weighed around 18.5 and with 1X9 and a susp fork weighed around 22 lbs. Plenty light in my book. Hope this helps.

    BTW, the Jones was also a very compliant ride (vertically) while nice and stiff laterally. I much prefer my BS unicrown ti fork to the truss fork though, nicer to my wrists on the bumps.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.-geared-sheep.jpg  

    Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.-ss.jpg  

    "It's all ball bearings"

  14. #114
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    Thank you for sharing your experience and thoughts. And by the way, very beautiful bikes you got there (like most of James’ creations...)

    I personally think James is one of the most talented builders out there. His foray into tube curving, new tensioning systems (e.g., HACS), innovative removable rear triangle, eagerness to accomplish the minutest details (e.g., sheep cut out on the stay bridge) and other exemplary miscellaneous items (e.g., removable braze-ons) puts him over and above most builders.

    Everything that James does is custom and the process should yield a bike that fits you to perfection. Reviewing the bikes you have owed, it appears none was custom. Not withstanding the swoopy tubes, that might as well explain why your sheeps feel different and better.

    To truly be able to conclude, subjectively, that a swoopy sheep rides nicer that a traditional diamond frame you need to build a frame with Erikssen, Kish or Strong (to name a few) and compare side by side. I have a stock Ti (Lynskey Pro 2010) and a custom Kish. The Kish for me is a better bike; it’s much more fun to ride (by the way, it has a Black Sheep fork...)

    Finally, some facts on curved tubes:

    A. You cannot bend double butted tubes (0.95/0.5/0.95), since they will buckle. You can only employ 0.7mm tubes, which are lighter than 0.95 straight gauge but not as light as double butted. Thus, a straight tube bike with double butted tubes will be less hefty. In addition, the straight tubes are shorter, which makes them lighter. The difference, pending on frame size, is about 200g. For some weight is more important, for others the bike appearance takes precedence.

    B. Curved tubes can make a positive difference. For instance, a curved seat tube may help to shorten chain stay length. But they can also be a determinant. For example, an upward curved top tube reduces stand over clearance.

    C. Bending a tube changes its metallurgical structure. I.e., in theory, your tube is weaker. From a century of employing curved tubes in frame, it appears this 'tampering' does not make real life difference.

    Last note: truss forks are usually stiffer than uni-crowns or segmented fork, so there should be no surprise your fork is nicer-feeling that Jones’.

    Cheers!
    Last edited by Climber999; 05-02-2010 at 06:27 PM.

  15. #115
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    climber999, you make great points and I may be one of the few on this thread who truly takes you on your word and doesn't believe you are trolling.
    I think you researched it thoroughly, made a decision and hopefully got a bike you're happy with. Most of your argument is very sound logically, and I can't really dispute much of it.
    I'm also very methodical and logical in my approach to almost everything I do, but particularly when it costs some money.

    However, even though I strive to have a super light bike, I finally realized that a few grams here or there really aren't worth obsessing about. The old cycling adage about losing a few pounds from the rider is easier and cheaper than the bike is true. I finally just decided that I would not let logic and reason rule EVERY aspect of my life, and get something that is the style and look that I liked. (And it is one of the lightest bikes out there which is a bonus) I truly think I got the proverbial "WIN/WIN" with the frames. I also really like to be riding something that's a little different than the "normal" looking bike that can be found at any bike shop. Just personal preference.

    FWIW, I actually called and talked to Kent Eriksen about building me a frame a couple of years ago, and to be completely honest, he wasn't about to do sliders. Not sure if he still has his heels dug in on that one, but it was evident that he would build me a custom bike WITHIN HIS PARAMETERS OF BUILDING A BIKE FOR ME. Not really so custom with those restrictions.

    I also spoke with JJ and he has his idea of what a bike geometry should be, and is pretty locked-in to his belief about that geometry. Different riders, terrain, styles of riding, etc require different bike geometry and the job of the custom builder is to build a bike for the customer. It's really pretty simple.

    These are two examples of things that I wasn't hung up on, (or weren't deal breakers), yet spoke volumes about whether they were actually listening to the customer or not. Sorry, but I don't get that with James, he is extremely open to ideas and is willing to do what the customer wants. So he built the second frame for me. And will be building my next one sometime in the future.

    For your next frame, I suggest you consider buying one that is "almost" as light as the lightest one you can get, but has the esthetics you want. Then, instead of using it to "decorate your living room", go ride the darned thing and see how you like it. You very well could be pleasantly surprised.
    "It's all ball bearings"

  16. #116
    Snapper
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    St

    My Black Sheep Highlight ST. Many thanks to Shannon here in OZ. It is stunning.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.-img_0299.jpg  

    Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.-img_0300.jpg  

    Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.-img_0303.jpg  

    Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.-img_0295.jpg  


  17. #117
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    John,

    That's quite a change since the Spider. Still rolling the Mach 429 here, but I do have a pair of riser bars coming from James for my SS

    Beautiful ride, hope you enjoy that one for years to come.

  18. #118
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    I'd love to hear a full ride report on the Highlight ST.

  19. #119
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    Great ST John. Many fun rides coming with that one.
    If you're lucky enough to be in the mountains,
    you're lucky enough.

  20. #120
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    Bsst

    Thanks Gang,

    Q yes it is a long way from the Spider l got you to send across the pond. Once again l have to credit the Spider for getting me into 29ers, first bike that fit me and it is now being ridden (and loved) by a great guy in North Queensland - his first FS aand 29er. The love continues to spread. I also have a DWL Sultan with coil shock so is very different to the BSST.
    As far as a ride report goes it is a little early as it has only been out on dirt twice. Do you run it like any other FS bike with sag or is it a hardtail that engages suspension every now and then. It is probably somewhere in the middle and l am thinking about 5% sag (was 20%) and ride it like a hardtail. It is screaming out to be a SS which will have to wait a bit. The bars are also better suited to a rigid HT as they are very forgiving (not require on FS). I have some Jones bars which l will try in the future. Run around 100psi to get 5-10% sag. Weighs in around 26lbs with King bolt ups and Flows. It was custom built for Shannon with 25.25 ETT and 19 seat tude. Angles seem more relaxed and while l havent measured the chain stays they seem short (manuals really well). Also prefers transitions with jumps and drops like most XC race rigs but l gave her a bit and she was fine. Now wondering how she will go with a coil shock (not really). Ideal for an internal geared hub and belt drive.
    It is not like anything else l have ridden and requires more finese than big old ham fisted me can give. It will be like any relationship - give and take, expensive, rewarding, trying, hopefully end with children of the Black Sheep variety and wont break my heart. It will last me forever and has given me a taste for BS HTs............... just dont tell the missus.
    Cheers
    JD
    Last edited by johnd663; 05-18-2010 at 07:53 PM.

  21. #121
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by lostemple
    Just rode my ti hard tail for the first time. I noticed an immediate pounding on my posterier compared to my FS. I don't know how you SS rigid guys do it. Props to you!
    Funny how it's all about what you're used to. I resemble that remark (SS & rigid) and when I see people riding FS bikes with gears I wonder the same thing. Of course, I've been on a rigid SS for more than 3/4's of the time I've been riding mountain bikes. This year, that's 16 years.

    My contribution to this thread...


    I started with a High Lite which was wayyyyy too flexy for my taste. Got James to replace it with the the High Roller which I love save for 1 or 2 things. I still think MikeSee's bike is one of the most beautiful that I've ever seen and was shooting for with the High Roller.

    A couple more while I'm on a roll.... snicker.

    About to go to the same race (24 Hours of Finale Ligure) in 2 weeks again.




    ...And this is the same race as I posted last year (München City Bike Marathon) but the 2010 version. Eighty kilometers of almost dead flat on a singlespeed... man, that's abusive!



  22. #122
    Delirious Tuck
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    Stay tuned for the Highlight RAM... the Really AM-style clyde friendly highlight, weight weenies beware... James has heard my concerns... slacker hta around a 120mm 20mm thru axle XX Reba fork, SS w/1x9 optionality, laterally stiff and compliant, high east coast approved BB height, geometry and strength for a person built like an ex-rugby playing orangutan who likes to ride trials... This Ram will be fast, and make other bikes look on with bahhhhfled awe as it sails down the trails and through the air...

  23. #123
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    tease

  24. #124
    Dave
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1Gel
    I simply, absolutely love the lines on this bike!
    I think it's the way the TT just flows unimpeded into the seatstays... waaaay sweeet!
    ...just gave me goosebumps
    If I had the moolah for a custom job, this can serve as the template for it
    Where can I get a seatpost like that, from the builder I guess right? It is Ti right? How is that clamp holding up?
    I need to ride more and work less.

  25. #125
    TR
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    Quote Originally Posted by liteandfast
    Where can I get a seatpost like that, from the builder I guess right? It is Ti right? How is that clamp holding up?
    Rach doesn't come here much so I will answer for her.
    Yes it is a ti Blacksheep seatpost.
    She has had no problems with the clamp.
    Clamp has a nut recessed in it so if she strips the threads it is as simple as replacing the nut and no need to have the frame itself retapped.

  26. #126
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    1Speed,

    What fork is that? Does not look like the faith.

    Also anyone with detailed pics and reviews of James CS sliders?

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by crux
    1Speed,

    What fork is that? Does not look like the faith.

    Also anyone with detailed pics and reviews of James CS sliders?
    Crux - Before Faith there was this. I'm honestly not sure what this one is called anymore. Sorry man. It's basically, the Unicrown with struts. Look at most older photos of Black Sheeps with the strut fork and they look pretty similar to mine.

  28. #128
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by crux
    1Speed,

    What fork is that? Does not look like the faith.

    Also anyone with detailed pics and reviews of James CS sliders?
    I had one slip last season. It's been rock solid and silent since. Great mechanism thus far.







    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

    ― Albert Einstein

  29. #129
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    More chainstays

    Quote Originally Posted by crux
    1Speed,

    What fork is that? Does not look like the faith.

    Also anyone with detailed pics and reviews of James CS sliders?
    I've had very good luck with mine as well with it only slipping once. I think it would never move if I checked once a week or so. Here are a couple pics with one showing how easy it comes apart. Belt drive?
    Hey Squeaky how did your bike get dirty?



  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by volkstech
    Hey Squeaky how did your bike get dirty?

    My go-live is next weekend

    Just waiting on James to finish my belt-drive mod at this point
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

    ― Albert Einstein

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by volkstech
    I've had very good luck with mine as well with it only slipping once. I think it would never move if I checked once a week or so. Here are a couple pics with one showing how easy it comes apart. Belt drive?
    Hey Squeaky how did your bike get dirty?

    A question about the seat stays on these frames... do they also "slide" or ar they permanently attached?

  32. #132
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    The seat stays flex when you adjust tension via the chainstay.
    If you're lucky enough to be in the mountains,
    you're lucky enough.

  33. #133
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    Now in XX Belt Drive Flava !!!!!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.-img_4179_3.jpg  

    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

    ― Albert Einstein

  34. #134
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    The are a solid tube and bend a little when you adjust the chain stays.

  35. #135
    Black Sheep rising
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    The new hotness!




    More pics
    Let the market decide!

    N42.58 W83.06

  36. #136
    SpoK Werks Handmade Goods
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    utab.... really pretty!

  37. #137
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    Pretty nifty for a guy at fifty.

    Congrats and enjoy for life.

    BTW thank the wife.

  38. #138
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    Very nice build. Let the sweetness beign!
    If you're lucky enough to be in the mountains,
    you're lucky enough.

  39. #139
    Black Sheep rising
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    The sweetness must wait until my actual birthday (Friday). Then it's on like Donkey Kong (or whatever your preferred metaphor may be).
    Let the market decide!

    N42.58 W83.06

  40. #140
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    Drolling over everything in this thread.

    Mine should be shipping today... anticipation is killing me, haven't been this excited about opening a box since the castle of Greyskull was on my Christmas list and there was a castle sized box under the tree.

  41. #141
    Single Speed Junkie
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    Don't think that the bends make the bike weaker. Seems to roll fine to me.

    <object width="400" height="265"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=12713375&amp;server=vimeo.co m&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_port rait=0&amp;color=&amp;fullscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=12713375&amp;server=vimeo.co m&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_port rait=0&amp;color=&amp;fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="265"></embed></object><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/12713375">Otero Feature.</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user4091465">AMaust</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

  42. #142
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    1 guy, 2 sheep

    Gratuitous Sheep shot.

    Actually riding the RIP today though oddly enough!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.-sheep-small.jpg  


  43. #143
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    Here's ma baby... Its the RAM edition...



    link to my thread on the bike:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=634425&highlight=wolf's+clothing

    Regarding the HACS - anyone know what they should be torqued to (NM or in/ft lbs) and the best way for getting tension? I find putting the bike in the rack, then pulling the Seat Stays back right above the axle then tightening works, but not sure its the most efficient method.

  44. #144
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    Regarding the HACS - anyone know what they should be torqued to (NM or in/ft lbs) and the best way for getting tension? I find putting the bike in the rack, then pulling the Seat Stays back right above the axle then tightening works, but not sure its the most efficient method.
    How often do you need to tension the chain? I thought it is like sliders; pretty much 'set and forget'.

  45. #145
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    It should be, I ran three full double black DH runs on this puppy and had to retension after that. I'm not sure that's what James had in mind, and you don't often see an SS HT on the DH lift/shuttle runs. For normal trail riding, including 4' drops, chunky rocky rooty trails, and rock garden riding I've have no issues.

    Just wondering if there's a "trick" to doing it or its put it in the stand, tension, and then turn the grubs till you can't tug anymore. I'd hate to f up the threads or stays over tightening the grubs.

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefriar
    It should be, I ran three full double black DH runs on this puppy and had to retension after that. I'm not sure that's what James had in mind, and you don't often see an SS HT on the DH lift/shuttle runs. For normal trail riding, including 4' drops, chunky rocky rooty trails, and rock garden riding I've have no issues.

    Just wondering if there's a "trick" to doing it or its put it in the stand, tension, and then turn the grubs till you can't tug anymore. I'd hate to f up the threads or stays over tightening the grubs.
    Thanks...

    I suppose you should contact James for the NM setting.
    Your technique is exactly what he describe to me when I inquire about the HACS. Pull back on the seatstays on one side, tight the grub, than correct with the other side. In essence, exactly like way you go about tensioning your chain with track dropouts.

  47. #147
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    Blacksheep endurance racing.
    Me an my Highlight on the way to 3rd place in the 40-50 category at the Merida 24hr down here near Brisbane Australia a couple of weeks ago:




  48. #148
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    Anyone spoken to James in the last few days?

    I'm trying to get in touch with him about a problem and he's not answering my calls or emails.

  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlespeedstu
    Anyone spoken to James in the last few days?

    I'm trying to get in touch with him about a problem and he's not answering my calls or emails.
    He sent me an email on Thu. He was in CA to come back to Co on Monday.
    Sometimes he's very hard to get a hold on. He seems to overload his schedule.
    I think when he deals with a project he pays very little attention to other things; might be only new orders would make him respond.

  50. #150
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    might be only new orders would make him respond.
    That's what I though. I've had problems getting hold of him in the past.

    I'll try a few more times and give him a little longer to respond to me so we can sort this problem out.

  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlespeedstu
    That's what I though. I've had problems getting hold of him in the past.

    I'll try a few more times and give him a little longer to respond to me so we can sort this problem out.
    Also try todd@blacksheepbikes.com or else post on their Facebook page.

  52. #152
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    Thanks TR I'll give that email addy a try too.

  53. #153
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    This could be why you cannot find James.
    From their FB page:

    This Friday and Saturday Black Sheep Bikes will be in Leadville! Its the third annual Rocky Mountain Bicycle Festival and were sure it will be a great time. Come check out and demo some of our new bikes including the latest version of the 36er! James will be racing in the Leadville Trail 100 on Saturady so come cheer him on as well.

  54. #154
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    Yeah he was on vacation. I spoke with him on Monday and I understood he would be back today.

  55. #155
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    Anyone happen to have a strutted unicrown that they are looking to offload??

    SPAM pass http://classifieds.mtbr.com/showprod...uct=53366&cat=

    Example of what I am looking for:


  56. #156
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    TR.

    Thanks for that.
    I mailed Todd and got a reply.

    Let's just hope I can finaly get things sorted with James.

  57. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlespeedstu
    TR.

    Thanks for that.
    I mailed Todd and got a reply.

    Let's just hope I can finaly get things sorted with James.
    Ha good luck.....
    "RIDE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT"

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1strongone1
    Ha good luck.....
    Did you have a bad experience? Please share.

  59. #159
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    My new BS

    Hello
    Here is my new BS. Many thanks to Shannon here in Australia for all his help and communicating with James RE - build and needs. At 6.5 and 105 kgs my first need was strength and James has beefed up the gauge and diameter of the seat and chain stays and slightly relaxed geometry. Paragon hooded sliders are beautiful.
    Running it 2 x 2 for the moment with a 32 / 34 up front and 19 / 17 out back. Still messing around with the components but favour the BS MM bars over the Jones's and need to get rid of the white rims (bothers me). My King 20mm front wheel wont fit in my Rebas (rotor too close to the fork legs and cant adjust the calliper out enough so Hopes it is). Might run it geared for Summer and rigid and SS for Winter.
    Cant comment too much on the ride as yet as it is early days but l havent wanted to get off the bike since a built it. It is smooth / responsive and compliant - I couldnt be happier.
    Will contact James with my thanks as it is rather special.
    Cheers
    John D
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.-img_0022.jpg  

    Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.-img_0026.jpg  

    Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.-img_0035.jpg  

    Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.-img_0036.jpg  


  60. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnd663
    Will contact James with my thanks as it is rather special.
    Beautiful lines on that bike -- even the curve of the seatpost is well matched to the curves of the frame. I'm sure you'll enjoy it for years to come. Personally, I'd park it in my living room in place of the television and just stare at it whenever I was too tired to ride...
    "The plural of anecdote is not data." -- Attributed to various people in a variety of forms, but always worth remembering...

  61. #161
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    John very glad to see you were sorted out, those stays look hefty and stiff.

    I love the RAM, thing is my go to rig for everything short of regular lift served or true FR, including drops, skinnies, and 4-6 hour rides.

  62. #162
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    PAID Sales SPAM... http://classifieds.mtbr.com/showprod...=54546&cat=500

    In case anyone needs/wants a frame and fork so that they can post their own photos of their Black Sheep here. Mine is up for sale as a frame & fork.

  63. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnd663
    Hello
    Here is my new BS. Many thanks to Shannon here in Australia for all his help and communicating with James RE - build and needs. At 6.5 and 105 kgs my first need was strength and James has beefed up the gauge and diameter of the seat and chain stays and slightly relaxed geometry. Paragon hooded sliders are beautiful.
    Running it 2 x 2 for the moment with a 32 / 34 up front and 19 / 17 out back. Still messing around with the components but favour the BS MM bars over the Jones's and need to get rid of the white rims (bothers me). My King 20mm front wheel wont fit in my Rebas (rotor too close to the fork legs and cant adjust the calliper out enough so Hopes it is). Might run it geared for Summer and rigid and SS for Winter.
    Cant comment too much on the ride as yet as it is early days but l havent wanted to get off the bike since a built it. It is smooth / responsive and compliant - I couldnt be happier.
    Will contact James with my thanks as it is rather special.
    Cheers
    John D
    Very nice. James is now offering full swoop on all tubes. Looks great.
    I wonder, why did you opt for sliders, as opposed to HACS?
    Last edited by Climber999; 09-14-2010 at 07:23 PM.

  64. #164
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    My grand daughters new Black Sheep

    Here are a few pics of my grand daughters new Black Sheep. Maybe a little smaller than everyone is used. This was her first of hopefully many mountain bike rides.

    Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.-izzy-001.jpg

    Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.-izzy-004.jpg

    Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.-izzy-008.jpg

  65. #165
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    Sliders

    Quote Originally Posted by Climber999
    Very nice. James is now offering full swoop on all curves. Looks great.
    I wonder, why did you opt for sliders, as opposed to HACS?
    Hi C999
    I was always going to run gears so no real need for HACS and wanted to really stiffen up the rear end (big bloke). I understand the Hooded Paragons are very robust and with a hanger - can run gears later. SSing was an after thought when l saw the frame and the heavy mud we currently have here in Melbourne - glad l went that way.
    Thanks for the kind words
    JD

  66. #166
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    Thanks Friar

    Quote Originally Posted by thefriar
    John very glad to see you were sorted out, those stays look hefty and stiff.

    I love the RAM, thing is my go to rig for everything short of regular lift served or true FR, including drops, skinnies, and 4-6 hour rides.
    Thanks mate - yes your RAM was my inspiration for the build. The importer here in OZ (Shannon) was terrific and James's build / design and attention to detail superb. Worth the wait. I sent him an email to thank him and got a very warm and honest reply....................... feel warm inside.
    Great to know that your frame was designed for you, your needs, wishes and that all those things come together on the trail in such a terrific package. It also looks rather stunning IMO (except the rims).
    Will post some action pics
    Take care
    John
    PS - thinking of selling the CCDB off my Sultan if you are interested. Cant get a fork here in OZ that matches the shock. Let me know if you are keen. Go well with a modified 36 Fox Vanilla!!
    Cheers
    JD

  67. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by volkstech
    This was her first of hopefully many mountain bike rides.
    Will they all be on sheeps? If so, can I make an application to be your grandson ?

    All kidding aside, what a COOL grandpa you are!!

  68. #168
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    thx PeT

    Quote Originally Posted by PeT
    Beautiful lines on that bike -- even the curve of the seatpost is well matched to the curves of the frame. I'm sure you'll enjoy it for years to come. Personally, I'd park it in my living room in place of the television and just stare at it whenever I was too tired to ride...
    Yes it is sad to say (as it is only a bike - my wife tells me) but l cant take my eyes off it and make excuses to visit the garage to sneak a peek.
    Cheers mate
    JD

  69. #169
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    Saw this on eBay , what's it's true value
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...:X:RTQ:US:1123

  70. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikoli8
    Saw this on eBay , what's it's true value
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...:X:RTQ:US:1123
    The true value of an item is what ever someone is willing to pay. For bicycles this especially holds true.

  71. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by crux
    The true value of an item is what ever someone is willing to pay. For bicycles this especially holds true.
    Agreed. About like asking what seat or what tires are best. Not slamming the question but it's too personal of a decision.

  72. #172
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    I determined the value to be about $1000, and I shall soon add this sheep to the flock. This will be my second "New Belgium - Tour de Fat" bicycle. I have a slightly larger, monstercross version as well. Tough as nails and great around the city.


  73. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by volkstech
    Here are a few pics of my grand daughters new Black Sheep. Maybe a little smaller than everyone is used. This was her first of hopefully many mountain bike rides.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    plenty of real nice bike here but this one is my favorite

  74. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppy
    plenty of real nice bike here but this one is my favorite
    It's certainly the most handsome riders...

  75. #175
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    Cool-blue Rhythm New Belgium...

    Sorry to crash the party, but I just skimmed through the last few posts...
    Are the NB Fat Tire Cruisers made by Black Sheep? I have one in storage that looks like this one:


    And these, but with a yellow saddle:



    I was originally going to post the new 36er...


    TIA!

  76. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by xJAHx
    I determined the value to be about $1000, and I shall soon add this sheep to the flock. This will be my second "New Belgium - Tour de Fat" bicycle. I have a slightly larger, monstercross version as well. Tough as nails and great around the city.

    Great catch there! I threw a couple bids in at the end, but it was only worth about $900 to me! I wasn't sure on the sizing and the inexperienced seller, so I held off. Enjoy the bike and post some better pictures when you get it!

    Mark

  77. #177
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    Anyone had any contact with James in the last week or so?

    I'm having trouble getting hold of him again.

  78. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlespeedstu
    Anyone had any contact with James in the last week or so?

    I'm having trouble getting hold of him again.
    He is at Interbike I believe.

  79. #179
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    Thanks TR.

  80. #180
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    He just finished making some bikes for Gates to display their belt drive on at Interbike. Spoke with him yesterday. He's now in catch up mode. I would try again tomorrow or Monday.
    If you're lucky enough to be in the mountains,
    you're lucky enough.

  81. #181
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    who can get a hold of james?

    I don't mean to bash but I tried to get a hold of james for a few months last winter, no response! I guess if he has your money already then good luck!

  82. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by wookieone
    I don't mean to bash but I tried to get a hold of james for a few months last winter, no response! I guess if he has your money already then good luck!
    If I may:

    Did you pay the full balance in advance?
    Have you received you order eventually? How long did it take?

  83. #183
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    Funny that people are complaining about this. I've just finished paying my down payment this week, and James has answered many emails when I had questions regarding parts I needed to buy, including several emails this week.

    Maybe I'm just lucky?

  84. #184
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    I also just talked to him the other day about some bars.

  85. #185
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    I've still not been able to get James to return my calls or answer my emails.

    This is starting to get past a joke now.

  86. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlespeedstu
    I've still not been able to get James to return my calls or answer my emails.

    This is starting to get past a joke now.
    if he's Interbike expect him to be back on Monday. Try him then or Tue.

  87. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by singlespeedstu
    I've still not been able to get James to return my calls or answer my emails.

    This is starting to get past a joke now.
    I hear you man. At one point I told him during my waiting phases to just return the deposits as I could not handle the waiting and non responses. He got back to me eventually and I do love the frame.....and seatpost.....and faith fork........and frame mods (shorten stays). Each phase had nearly the same waiting game and I can hear myself saying "never again" I started the sheep processes nearly two years ago. Man do I love the way the bike rides and looks. All is well once you are on the bike. I say just try and stay positive and patient, keep calling and emailing. Dude is busy and does go to different shows and rides a bunch.

    Hang in there bro, john

  88. #188
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    So...Maybe someone could finally chime in and relate how long it took him to get his frame from James? James states 3 to 4 months on his website, but clearly that's a gross underestimate..

  89. #189
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    You should definitely keep complaining on the internet, in a photo thread for the builder you are complaining about. I'm sure at some point he'll say "hey, lets not worry about keeping up with real life and make sure everything's OK on MTBR!"

  90. #190
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    I understand the frustration with James having gone through the process. However, in my experience, I think it's really more of a failure to manage expectations, relative priorities between emails and phone responses and frame building, and a lack of staffing that are the causes. BS is really a two-man show, with James doing essentially all of the real work and artistry, so with all dues respect, it's kind of a one-man show. James is in demand so he has a long line for frames. Every person's frame is the most important thing to that person, but to James, who's probably just trying to finish the one he's working on, most frames in the line are simply not on his mind. and are lower priorities for the time being As between responding to a backlog of emails and phone messages and working on bikes, it's pretty much bikes that'll win out. This isn't helped by the fact that we're in a modern, must-respond-within-5-minutes world. In my experience, James seemed pretty eager to please so he would promise essentially unrealistic deadlines that would invariably not get met. I found it frustrating and was a "squeaky wheel" to get my stuff done, which was easier as I live close by. I am more understanding now with some perspective and having thought about his situation. I am 100% satisfied with the end product and would be more than 100% satisfied if I wasn't constrained by mathematics. I would do it all again if I can convince myself (and my wife) that I need another bike. As for tactics, I think meeting in person gets thigs done and calling and actually speaking with him is the way to go. Remember, with Black Sheep and some other small builders, you're paying an artist for art, not a businessman for a product.
    "Fact is only what you believe; fact and fiction work as a team." Jack Johnson

  91. #191
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    You should definitely keep complaining on the internet, in a photo thread for the builder you are complaining about.
    I'm just trying to find out if anyones had any contact with James in the last week. I figured this would be a good place to ask.
    Nothing for you to get all excited about.

    For what it's worth this will be the third frame he's built for me so I'm not new to the way he operates. But that doesn't stop it being very frustrating though.

  92. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Climber999
    So...Maybe someone could finally chime in and relate how long it took him to get his frame from James? James states 3 to 4 months on his website, but clearly that's a gross underestimate..
    Initial call in early February; no real further contact until March (due mainly to NAHBS); geometry set "in stone" by mid-April; frame delivered mid-May (10 days after initial due date from February). I was on the bike by June 11 (my 50th birthday). I am a very happy customer.

    If I get divorced, I'll have an ST to match the HT.
    Let the market decide!

    N42.58 W83.06

  93. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Climber999
    So...Maybe someone could finally chime in and relate how long it took him to get his frame from James? James states 3 to 4 months on his website, but clearly that's a gross underestimate..
    Frame quote was 8 weeks in November 08' received in 13 1/2 weeks
    Faith fork quote was 4 weeks in August 09' received in 11 weeks
    Seatpost was no biggie
    Frame modification to shorten the stays was a fast 2 weeks in April 10'

    All fuzzy and warm feeling once yer on the trails
    Last edited by ssumo; 09-24-2010 at 01:48 PM.

  94. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pabs
    As for tactics, I think meeting in person gets thigs done and calling and actually speaking with him is the way to go.
    Yeah, I went up 2x to meet James, ride some bikes and look at his work. I'm sure that makes him feel like I'm more serious.

    Chris

  95. #195
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    Initial call in early February; no real further contact until March (due mainly to NAHBS); geometry set "in stone" by mid-April; frame delivered mid-May (10 days after initial due date from February). I was on the bike by June 11 (my 50th birthday). I am a very happy customer.
    More than reasonable!!

    Frame quote was 8 weeks in November 08' receuved in 13 1/2 weeks
    Faith fork quote 4 was 4 weeks in August 09' received in 11 weeks
    Seatpost was no biggie
    Frame modification to shorten the stays was a fast 2 weeks in April 10'
    No biggie at all. I would happily live with that time frame.

  96. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by panhndl
    Yeah, I went up 2x to meet James, ride some bikes and look at his work. I'm sure that makes him feel like I'm more serious.

    Chris
    There are definately worse places to hang out.
    "Fact is only what you believe; fact and fiction work as a team." Jack Johnson

  97. #197
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    worth the wait

    James is flat out. He is crazy busy. It can be frustrating with the lack of regular contact but waiting in general is frustrating. I sent him an email the other day to info@...............
    and got a response in hours.I just believe his focus is on all the builds/ rebuilds / design / testing / building and l can forgive him if the answering emails side of the business is poor at times.

    I just rode my new Sheep (for the third time) and cant remember the last time l enjoyed "the ride" as much. The frame is stunning and gorgeous to ride.

    James's lack of contact is not malicious but when the heat is on he tends to knuckle down into the work. It would be hard to give accurate time estimates when you get so involved in the build/design/creative side of the business. Like asking an author to write me a novel and have it ready for me in three months - thanks.

    I thought my rebuild would be fairly straight forward and take a couple of months. It took six months but when l saw the frame - the attention to details - the time spent - rode it - it was obvious why it took the time that it did and well worth the wait.

    Just know that the process can take some time. Would l do it again? - in a heartbeat (if l could afford it) but l would reset my own expectations around time and comms. Just my thoughts

    Cheers

    JD

  98. #198
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    Another one to add to the flock.

    This ones a stelleon by Todd at Black Sheep.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Black Sheep Photo Thread - Bring the flock together.-pa152084.jpg  


  99. #199
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    Beautiful bike...

    Out of curiosity, how tall are you?

    (also, give those HACS a good tug and get that chain snug, don't be shy with em)

  100. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefriar
    Beautiful bike...

    Out of curiosity, how tall are you?

    (also, give those HACS a good tug and get that chain snug, don't be shy with em)
    I am 6'2". The photo was taken before I had fully finished setting it up. The chain is now tensioned, seat height is adjusted. It fis me beautifully and rides superbly - very happy!

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