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  1. #1
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    The bike that started it all just got even better...

    The bike that started it all just got even better...-img_20131018_122010.jpg

    The new and improved Lenz Lunchbox.

    Short chainstays? Check. 16.75 inches measured the honest way, from the center of the rear axle to the center of the BB.

    Travel? Check. 150mm.

    Stealth Dropper post routing? Check.

    Clean-ass cable routing? Check. Rear derailleur cable runs down the downtube, inside the rear chainstay and pops out right at the derailleur. Nice.

    Piggyback shocks? Check. Pick your favorite, it fits.

    150mm rear hub spacing? Check. Props to Banshee for doing this as well. It matters much more than the 15mm vs 20mm fork argument.

    Stiff as shizzzzzzz? Check. With the rear wheel removed, you can't budge the rear triangle. I've never had a bike that even comes close to this one in this regard.

    More pics to come. I've been too busy grinning and riding to take pics.

    Props to Devin Lenz on making a masterpiece, literally. He made it, with his hands, in his shop, in Colorado and it's a functional work of art.

    Forgot to add, BB height is 13.5 inches with the 150mm Pike. This improvement was huge for me as I always felt the previous model's BB height was a tad tall for east coast carving. Now it slays corners. I don't have the chunk and chunder like out west, so the additional height was a hinderance to getting that "in the bike" feel. Problem solved.
    Last edited by Colin+M; 10-20-2013 at 08:06 AM.

  2. #2
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    Nice!

  3. #3
    Carbon & Ti rule
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    Yea more toys
    I have a 6 Berth Motorhome that I rent out . It is based in Tauranga, New Zealand

  4. #4
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    Heard this was on the horizon. Nice!
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  5. #5
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    When and how much? DEEEEETTTTAAAAILLLLLSSSS!!

  6. #6
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    Damn Dude, you got it already? Full ride report.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  7. #7
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    Brown santa is bringing mine this week....

  8. #8
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    Excellent. You'll love it, guaranteed. What finish did you go with?

  9. #9
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    Rawthic.

    There's no doubt in my mind on the amount of affection I'll have towards this new frame.

  10. #10
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    Excellent choice. I love the rawthic, obviously. Very industrial.

  11. #11
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    One more "real" choice as far as I'm concerned. Awesome.

    *although I think the Karate Monkey had a lot more to do with 29er acceptance *
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  12. #12
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    I agree with the Monkey in terms of 29ers in general. Devin was ahead of his time in terms of short chainstay/long travel full suspension 29ers.

  13. #13
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    Aah it all becomes clear!

    Nice!

  14. #14
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    Yep

  15. #15
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    So how does it ride compared to the Yeti? It's great to see another company (that doesn't have a big stupid S on its head tube!) bring out a long travel 2-9er with short stays. I'm intrigued...

  16. #16
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    nice bike!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just J View Post
    So how does it ride compared to the Yeti? It's great to see another company (that doesn't have a big stupid S on its head tube!) bring out a long travel 2-9er with short stays. I'm intrigued...
    That's one of the reasons I was so stoked, I didn't have to buy a Specialized to get sub 17 inch CS and long travel.

    It's hard to compare to the SB95c since I've never ridden a bike that handles like the Lenz does, both up and down the trail. Steep climbs have traction galore. It's like riding a unicycle with a front wheel and I mean that in the best way possible.

    As far as actual measurements go, the chainstay is a full inch shorter on the Lenz compared to the Yeti and you can't help but notice.

  18. #18
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    Very interesting indeed. I'll be watching out for more reports as you spend more time with it...

  19. #19
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    Love it Colin. Is the 16.75" chainstay standard on the LB these days or was that a custom option like the lower BB?

  20. #20
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    I think it is going to become the norm. Devin has re-vamped things, so mine isn't a custom it's just one of the first ones. Although if I were to go custom, this would be it. I can't think of anything this one doesn't have that I would want.

  21. #21
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    LunchBox seconded

    **Full Disclosure: I've been a Lenz dealer for a few years, but Lenz's have been my mountain bike of choice since the first prototype Leviathans. Sorry if some would think this sounds like spam -- I'm just writing my experience on this bike the last few days. Feel free to stop reading now**

    The bike that started it all just got even better...-1-img_3624.jpg

    Sorry about the mediocre pictures -- I had to get out early so the light was less than ideal.

    The bike that started it all just got even better...-2-img_3626.jpg

    Have to agree with Colin +M. Just got done with my second ride with the new 'Box. I was fortunate that mikesee was kind enough to loan me his for the weekend while he was off playing in Canyonlands on his Fatmoth. My new LunchBox should be here in the next week or so -- I'm having mine painted which takes a bit longer than the Rawthic.

    Love that everything is so clean on the routing - no cables in the way on the top tube, no growth of the dropper hose when you get the seat low.

    The short chainstays are immediately noticeable. I'm not a wheelie guy -- never had that gene -- but with this bike it's intuitive to get the front wheel up. I was late in manualing a few times in ledge-y sections of the trail and was pleasantly surprised that I was still able to save it and land clean because it takes much less input to do so.

    The suspension feels perfect....no twist or wiggle in the rear end even when you land off kilter (which I am prone to do at times ;-)) which has been a hallmark of all the Lenz's I've owned, and the travel just feels....well, choose your favorite suspension adjective....smooth, bottomless, buttery, linear....

    Best yet, the bike actually pedals. It is a 6" bike, but I found it to go uphill without having to go through any on-the-saddle gymnastics to keep the front wheel down or under control. I pedaled...I steered. Done.

    The Pike fork is brilliant...I may also go for the 160mm upgrade on mine....but it feels better than any fork I've ever ridden.

    Can't wait for mine to get here....
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  22. #22
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    That's a beaut. Already has me rethinking my carbon addiction.

  23. #23
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    It's the best bike I've owned regardless of frame material. It is a bonus knowing that if/when I lay it down it will only add character to the bike instead of make me nauseated.

    That being said, I still have my my Niner Rip9 RDO for my XC bike

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    It's the best bike I've owned regardless of frame material. It is a bonus knowing that if/when I lay it down it will only add character to the bike instead of make me nauseated.

    That being said, I still have my my Niner Rip9 RDO for my XC bike
    Interested to hear your thoughts on the Monarch Plus. Thinking about putting one on my TB LTc.

  25. #25
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    Do it already. It is a great match with the Pike. Much needed midstroke support compared to the Fox.

  26. #26
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    No matter what he says, he'll ride for a month or two and we'll see the next new bike.

    Colin have you ever ridden a Devinci Atlas? I'm asking because I don't need the travel, so I've been thinking of trading the TBc for an Atlas for the short chainstays.
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  27. #27
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    Weight? And 1x only, yes?

    Like the way the Lenz's ride. Torn between this and Mammoth for a one bike quiver. The short CS's and burliness of the 'box are appealing, but the weight and possible efficiency increase of the mammoth make it tough to choose.

    Also curious to your thoughts on the monarch plus vs CCDBA (I think you had one on a Spider Comp?)

  28. #28
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    I do have a history of such things...but I think I'll keep this one for awhile longer than the others. Mainly because I've been following along on the entire development process of it for months so it's kinda like a family member at this point.

    I haven't ridden a Devinci, but I can tell you that short stays make a difference so I might be worth a look.

  29. #29
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    Colin+M
    Please compare and contrast with the Rip9 Rdo. Thanks for all your contributions here

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    No matter what he says, he'll ride for a month or two and we'll see the next new bike.
    LOL

    Yep I will sell a bike because the brake pads are worn.

    Colin+m will sell 1 because the Tires need air
    I have a 6 Berth Motorhome that I rent out . It is based in Tauranga, New Zealand

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Forgot to add, BB height is 13.5 inches with the 150mm Pike. This improvement was huge for me as I always felt the previous model's BB height was a tad tall for east coast carving. Now it slays corners. I don't have the chunk and chunder like out west, so the additional height was a hinderance to getting that "in the bike" feel. Problem solved.
    Nice looking bike. Is the lower BB the only option now or can you still get the 14" BB. I live in rocky/rooty terrain so I appreciate a higher BB.
    Safe riding,

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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Rock View Post
    Weight? And 1x only, yes?

    Like the way the Lenz's ride. Torn between this and Mammoth for a one bike quiver. The short CS's and burliness of the 'box are appealing, but the weight and possible efficiency increase of the mammoth make it tough to choose.

    Also curious to your thoughts on the monarch plus vs CCDBA (I think you had one on a Spider Comp?)
    Frame weight was right around 7.6 lbs w/o shock, bike as pictured above with pedals, sealant etc etc is 29.5 lbs. Not an XC bike, but more than capable for anything you want to throw at it.

    I had a Mammoth, and with the 5 inch rockers on the Lunchbox, I can't tell much in the way of difference in pedaling efficiency. The frame weight difference is about 1.5 lbs between the frames.

    I'm curious if Devin is planning on a Mammoth with 16.75 inch stays in the future, that would be a delight as well.

    For me, not being a suspension tuning guru, I appreciate the simplicity of the Monarch plus. I'm sure the DBair would be sublime if I took the time to try and set it up properly.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    LOL

    Yep I will sell a bike because the brake pads are worn.

    Colin+m will sell 1 because the Tires need air
    Now that is funny

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Nice looking bike. Is the lower BB the only option now or can you still get the 14" BB. I live in rocky/rooty terrain so I appreciate a higher BB.
    I'm not sure to be honest. I didn't order it "custom" so I'm thinking the lower BB is gonna be standard. I know Mike C. is running his with a 160mm Pike and hasn't had much in terms of trouble with the boulders he rides daily. I personally think the BB needed to come down some, I've ridden the older Boxes and this lower version feels much more stable and "modern" if you will.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by tws_andrew View Post
    Colin+M
    Please compare and contrast with the Rip9 Rdo. Thanks for all your contributions here
    I still have the Rip RDO, will need some more saddle time on both to really give you an honest answer. The RDO is really really good and really different from the Lunchbox. Even with 1 inch shorter chainstays, the Lenz is about 1/2 inch longer in WB. BB height is higher on the Niner. Pedaling efficiency is close, both are nice and active on chunk/roots with gobs of traction. The Niner is obviously lighter and the Lenz is overall stiffer. Reach feels longer on the Niner in size large vs. the Lenz in size large.

    If I had to keep only one...

    Stay tuned

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Frame weight was right around 7.6 lbs w/o shock, bike as pictured above with pedals, sealant etc etc is 29.5 lbs. Not an XC bike, but more than capable for anything you want to throw at it.

    I had a Mammoth, and with the 5 inch rockers on the Lunchbox, I can't tell much in the way of difference in pedaling efficiency. The frame weight difference is about 1.5 lbs between the frames.

    I'm curious if Devin is planning on a Mammoth with 16.75 inch stays in the future, that would be a delight as well.

    For me, not being a suspension tuning guru, I appreciate the simplicity of the Monarch plus. I'm sure the DBair would be sublime if I took the time to try and set it up properly.
    Seems pretty reasonable for a 6" bike. Could be a fun coil sprung rig and have a Mammoth for the xc rides...but that's just not in the budget. I also pedal a 31.5 lb bike right now as my xc rig so 29.5 seems reasonable, which also means that a mammoth in the same build would be ~27lbs.

    My understanding is that the Mammoth is more of a xc oriented bike so the reduction in chain stays would take away from the climbing and intent of the frame. Just a hunch anyway, although the thought certainly crossed my mind.

    Thanks for the feedback.

  37. #37
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    The one I was riding (mikesee's) weighed in at 30 lbs 2 oz. with pedals.
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  38. #38
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    Are you saying its chainstays are more like 16.5", being a full inch shorter than the SB95c (17.5"), when measured in the "less honest way"? The "less honest way" being a horizontal measurement from BB to axle, which doesn't factor in BB drop? Who knows if any of the measurements take sag (considering chain growth) into account.
    We're all on the same ship, and it's sinking.

  39. #39
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    Colin,

    In the original picture you posted, did you have a MTX-33 on the front?

    Is that a medium frame?

    This seems to fix most of the complaints I have with my medium 2010 Lunchbox frame (rear tire clearance, no piggy back shock, straight 1 1/8 head tube; I learned my lesson buying an older frame even at a really great discount).

    The problem I have is that I am "higher" on my LB than on my Prime or 2010 WFO.

    I have a 385 mm Reverb inserted down as far as it will go on my LB.

    When measured from the floor, my LB seat height is two inches higher when slammed.

    That two inches makes a big difference to me, I feel more above the bike than in the bike on corners and on steeper stuff.

    Can you tell me how far your seat post can be inserted? And what is the height of the seat collar from the floor?

    My LB's seat collar height is just under 33 inches and my other bikes are around 31 inches.

    Does the new frame take the same size shock (7.875 x 2.0, 200x51)?

    I hope they update the Lunchbox specs on their site...

    I'd like to run a 6" dropper, but not if my lowest seat position will be higher since the overall seatpost length is longer and the length that can be inserted down the seat tube is limited.

    I also need to verify how low my seat will be on a medium Enduro 29 with a dropper...I'll probably take one on the demo ride next month. I don't like bikes that require specific custom shocks with special mountings...but I can get a replacement CCDB air CS, which is the only shock I would want to run on that frame.

    Thanks.

    JB

  40. #40
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    I'm wondering what size frame this is too. The cockpit looks a little cramped but I know pics don't tell the whole story.

    I started watching some videos with Lenz bikes and they have really peaked my interest. Being a short guy, (5'-7") on a good hair day, finding a good fitting bike is tough.
    Let's make like a Bike and get the Huck outta here...

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Rock View Post
    Weight? And 1x only, yes?

    Like the way the Lenz's ride. Torn between this and Mammoth for a one bike quiver. The short CS's and burliness of the 'box are appealing, but the weight and possible efficiency increase of the mammoth make it tough to choose.

    Also curious to your thoughts on the monarch plus vs CCDBA (I think you had one on a Spider Comp?)
    Have you considered the Behemoth? Same travel as the Mammoth, but a burlier frame for more AM style riding. I'd assume the frame weight would be between the Mammoth and the LB. Might be worth giving Devin a call/email and ask his advice.

  42. #42
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    I'm just glad more manufacturers are doing this and I hope to see more trailbikes and XC bikes with "normal" geometry soon...
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  43. #43
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    The bike that started it all just got even better...

    I know the bike in johndubs photos is a medium. Can't speak to Colin's.

    On a good day I'm 6'1"... Coming off a 2012 large Lunchbox. Loved the bike immensely but with the revisions Devin had made with the new version, I had to get my grubby paws on one.

    That said, after much debate and conversation with a few peeps in the know, I opted for a medium. I felt the large was a bit long in the TT, mostly in the chunk. Looking for the medium to be a bit quicker and more playful.

    The Lunchbox just begs to get rowdy no matter what trail you're on.

  44. #44
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    A teeny little history lesson.

    Looks good man--not that you can tell that much from that *ONE MEASLY PIC*!Let's see if I can shine a little light on the subject:Back in 2005 I asked Devin Lenz to create a 'long travel' 29"er. The 5" travel Behemoth is what came from that, and while forks, rims, and tires took a few years to 'catch up', it was (and is) still a very capable bike.By late 2006 we'd realized the need for shorter chainstays and a titch more travel, so Devin debuted the LunchBox with 17.2" stays and 6" of squish. It was the longest travel production bike for years, and to this day there are few 29"ers with a rear end that approaches the short/sportiness of it.I rode that original LunchBox *everywhere*. It is not a stretch to say that that bike taught me how to ride aggressive terrain with confidence.And although it'd be better than 5 years until any other manufacturer came close to going this short out back, Devin and I kept wondering "What if?"That is, what if we went even shorter?The limiting factor was always the front derailleur--and until XX1 arrived we were unwilling to lose the friendly gears needed to crawl up the rockies. Once I had a bit of time on XX1 and saw the potential, I installed a writ-large bug in Devin's ear to go as short as he could go while still maintaining the geometry that makes this chassis so capable.We put the first prototype under several pro racers--from enduro to DH to ultra-endurance. We took their feedback and added it to a growing pile. Then we unleashed our own non-professional selves on it. In testing we didn't limit it to 'one setup'--we used both coil forks and air, 6 different kinds (and tunes) of rear shock from the Monarch Plus to the Vivid Air, CCDB-A to DHX-A to the Vivid coil. We ran it with different combos of rim and tire, both tubed and tubeless, fiddled with the cockpit reach and rise, and used the "old" LunchBox leverage ratio and spring curve as mere springboards to suggest where we might start to seek perfection with the new one.In short, we took our time and ticked every box until we were sure we had it right. And then Devin went into production.It is not a stretch to say that this is *the* single most capable *and* fun bike I've ever ridden. It does everything I ask of it really, really well, from climbing steep chunkies to manualing at 20mph through Moab ledges, to dropping the occasional 10' huck that I've somehow become convinced is a good idea. I'm a long ways from able to be objective about it, obviously--because it's the bike I've always wanted and it's the bike I've been asking for.We knew that going shorter out back was going to unleash a manualing machine on the descents--and it has. What is most surprising, still, on every ride, is how much better it climbs (both seated and standing) relative to, well, anything else we've tried. It is honestly the most adept climber I've ever swung a leg over.Need to get back to work--will try to check in later to answer a few questions.Cheers,MC
    Last edited by mikesee; 03-04-2015 at 06:14 AM.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by In-Yo-Grill View Post
    I'm wondering what size frame this is too. The cockpit looks a little cramped but I know pics don't tell the whole story.

    I started watching some videos with Lenz bikes and they have really peaked my interest. Being a short guy, (5'-7") on a good hair day, finding a good fitting bike is tough.
    I'm 5'-8", my Lunchbox and PBJ are both supposed to be mediums, their seat collar height from the floor is identical.

    They do make size small...maybe I should have gotten size small (my WFO is a small and my Prime Prototype is a medium - I think the TT on both these two seem pretty close).

    Not being able to test ride before you buy makes purchasing the right size more difficult.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    [CENTER]
    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/EAKO9rYenSOTbawaOjYiqB7b25IpCDnuFfoBy9dgzwc?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-M_LysKmOxPQ/UmVSpfx9rjI/AAAAAAAAlSg/rs7SZgxPT7E/s800/sb13.JPG" height="474" width="800" /></a>
    Wow - that's nice!
    Safe riding,

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  47. #47
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    Does it say PUNKASS on the seatstay?

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    Does it say PUNKASS on the seatstay?
    Yep. That's Devinspeak for 'short rear'!

  49. #49
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    Recently overheard in my living room: "Honey my next bike is going to be a hardtail. I'm not getting a new full suspension bike."

    ...whelp.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    Recently overheard in my living room: "Honey my next bike is going to be a hardtail. I'm not getting a new full suspension bike."

    ...whelp.
    It takes a big man to admit he was wrong.

    I recommend denial. Never happened...

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    It takes a big man to admit he was wrong.

    I recommend denial. Never happened...
    Here are the questions I have: with all of the different forks and shocks you tried on the frame, what do you think? Seems like a great arena to have developed some pretty sophisticated thoughts on them.

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    The bike that started it all just got even better...

    In the nearly immediate wake of the what may as well be the non-official "official" release of the Lunchbox PunkAss6, I invite you to take a trip back in time to when our beloved long-travel 29er chunk-schralping machines were as rare as unobtanium:

    Lenz Sport Behemoth

    I would say you would have a difficult time arguing the Lenz Behemoth was the bike that started it all.

    That thread is full of win - well, except for the lycra. Haha! I kid.....I've ridden with plenty of dudes clad in lycra that could put me to shame on the trail.

    ...back on topic, seems as though the Pike/Monarch or VA is the preferred optimal suss setup. ...I'll be building mine up with the 150 Pike, 51mm offset and a VA. If the VA turns out to be too much for me, I'll swap for a Monarch Plus.

    Brown Santa comes down the chimney tonight. A cold beer and a pile of jerky awaits.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimithng23 View Post
    In the nearly immediate wake of the what may as well be the non-official "official" release of the Lunchbox PunkAss6, I invite you to take a trip back in time to when our beloved long-travel 29er chunk-schralping machines were as rare as unobtanium:

    Lenz Sport Behemoth

    I would say you would have a difficult time arguing the Lenz Behemoth was the bike that started it all.

    That thread is full of win - well, except for the lycra. Haha! I kid.....I've ridden with plenty of dudes clad in lycra that could put me to shame on the trail.

    ...back on topic, seems as though the Pike/Monarch or VA is the preferred optimal suss setup. ...I'll be building mine up with the 150 Pike, 51mm offset and a VA. If the VA turns out to be too much for me, I'll swap for a Monarch Plus.

    Brown Santa comes down the chimney tonight. A cold beer and a pile of jerky awaits.
    Would love to hear your comparison of the VA and Monarch Plus if you get a chance. Not a lot of Vivid Airs on 29ers out there.

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    The bike that started it all just got even better...

    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    Would love to hear your comparison of the VA and Monarch Plus if you get a chance. Not a lot of Vivid Airs on 29ers out there.
    I arrived at the decision of the VA on Mikesee's advice - I've ridden neither at this point; had the Fox CTD on my previous Lunchbox. Blew it out after 2 months, had it warrantied, no problems thereafter but I was never really blown away by its performance; it just worked.

    I'll be sure to post up impressions as soon as I get a ride in.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Mikesee chimed in with his thoughts as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    Here are the questions I have: with all of the different forks and shocks you tried on the frame, what do you think? Seems like a great arena to have developed some pretty sophisticated thoughts on them.
    Happy to share my conclusions, but first you need to ask a more specific question. And please keep in mind that my answer is for me, where I live and ride, and that in no way am I suggesting that this bike (in any configuration) would be ideal for anyone else. Horses for courses and all that.

    Non-disclaimer answer:

    The bike that started it all just got even better...-sb13.jpg

    This is the way I've settled on riding it. I *liked* some of the other setups but not the way I *love* this one.

    Cheers,

    MC
    Last edited by mikesee; 03-04-2015 at 06:16 AM.

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    Hawt!

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Nice looking bike. Is the lower BB the only option now or can you still get the 14" BB. I live in rocky/rooty terrain so I appreciate a higher BB.
    Colin's running a 150 fork with (relatively) small tires, and his BB is at 13.5". I've got a 160 fork with higher volume tires and mine sits at 13.8".

    The first proto had a ~14.15" BB, which is where I'd typically prefer it. I noticed, as did a few of the other testers, that with the tire tucked as tight to the BB as this one is, it was difficult to make pedal/ground contact in all of the 'usual spots'. We surmised that the shorter rear end allowed the rear tire to climb up/over the obstacle before your pedals or bash guard had a chance to get there. Clearly that won't/can't always be the case, but it was happening often enough that it felt right to drop the BB a titch to lower the CoG.

    Make sense?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Happy to share my conclusions, but first you need to ask a more specific question. And please keep in mind that my answer is for me, where I live and ride, and that in no way am I suggesting that this bike (in any configuration) would be ideal for anyone else. Horses for courses and all that.

    Non-disclaimer answer:

    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/EAKO9rYenSOTbawaOjYiqB7b25IpCDnuFfoBy9dgzwc?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-M_LysKmOxPQ/UmVSpfx9rjI/AAAAAAAAlSg/rs7SZgxPT7E/s800/sb13.JPG" height="474" width="800" /></a>

    This is the way I've settled on riding it. I *liked* some of the other setups but not the way I *love* this one.

    Cheers,

    MC
    That helps as a starting point. I'm assuming the Monarch Plus has a weight advantage with slight performance disadvantages relative to the Vivid Air or Coil? Am I totally wrong? I'm assuming the performance of the heavier shocks wasn't enough to offset the weight penalty? Did you ever try a CCDB(A) on it? Why go with the Pike over the modded Fox 36? Was it the out of the box compatibility, weight, awesome black stanchions, or is the Pike just a better fork altogether?

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    Now we've got a party!

    Mine is a large, I've ridden medium Lenz's before enough to know that I personally wanted a large. That being said, I don't have the chunk/steeps that Mike does so I like a little longer top tube. Plus he's pretty short I'm like a whole 2 1/4 inches taller, at least.

    I have mine set up with the 150mm Pike and M+ at the moment, although I might try the CCDBair again since I already have one. The M+ seems to be a good fit and match for the Pike.

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    So I'm definitely not getting one of these, but if I did, how long would I have to wait for it?

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    Mike could probably answer that more accurately, but I can guarantee you that it is worth the wait. I'm fairly confident in saying that there isn't another bike out there right now like this one since I've owned most of them (except the E29).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Mike could probably answer that more accurately, but I can guarantee you that it is worth the wait. I'm fairly confident in saying that there isn't another bike out there right now like this one since I've owned most of them (except the E29).
    I have that funny feeling... a feeling you probably get about 6 times a year... that feeling when you see a bike and you realize it's inevitable. Maybe I should just wait until you are ready to sell yours :P

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    Just another comment on the bike: this is the first Lenz I've seen that I didn't think was fugly. In fact, it looks great. That raw finish does wonders. Was never a fan of the 1980s roller rink graphics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    That helps as a starting point. I'm assuming the Monarch Plus has a weight advantage with slight performance disadvantages relative to the Vivid Air or Coil? Am I totally wrong? I'm assuming the performance of the heavier shocks wasn't enough to offset the weight penalty? Did you ever try a CCDB(A) on it? Why go with the Pike over the modded Fox 36? Was it the out of the box compatibility, weight, awesome black stanchions, or is the Pike just a better fork altogether?
    Can't say that I ever weighed the shocks, but when you factor in all around performance the M+ was/is the clear winner. If I was a shuttle monkey I might feel differently, likewise if this was a park-only bike, but for the all-day/everywhere way that I ride it, I greatly preferred the M+ over all the others mentioned. I ran both H and M tune M+'s, and could make either work. I prefer the H tune because (assuming similar/identical pressures) I sit a bit higher in the travel at any given point. No change in bottom out resistance or small bump sensitivity that I could feel.

    Pike feels worlds better than either air or coil 36's on small stuff, every bit as good on medium and large, is lighter, and has a rational and creak-free wheel removal system.

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    I'm with you on the raw finish. It definitely shoots it into badassery. Me sell a bike? NEVER!

    I always say it is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission

    Before Mike sent me that infamous teaser email back in the summer, I had resigned to the fact that I was gonna end up getting an Enduro29 even though I've never longed for a Specialized and really didn't want one. I wanted sub-17 inch stays, piggyback shock capabilities and long travel. Thankfully the "Shortbox" came along and saved me.

    I'd much rather hand over my $$$ to Devin than the Evil Empire and get a bike made in the States with a 150mm rearend. Plus it is nice having a bike that not everyone else has.

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    Here's another question: What is the 150mm wide, XX1 compatible rear hub of choice? Why not 157?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    Here's another question: What is the 150mm wide, XX1 compatible rear hub of choice? Why not 157?
    I've got DT 350's, 240's, and 440's laced in 150. Didn't see much (any?) added benefit to the 157's personally, so I stuck with 150. But Devin did ask/offer to do 157, so I'm sure it's on the table if you've got your heart set on it.

    Hope EVO's are currently available in 150 or 157 w/XX1 as well.

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    The bike that started it all just got even better...

    Not implying it's the "hub of choice" but I run the Pro II EVO laced to a Salsa Gordo Mikesee built up for my previous Lunchbox.

    Has been great so far, no complaints, stiff and strong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Frame weight was right around 7.6 lbs w/o shock, bike as pictured above with pedals, sealant etc etc is 29.5 lbs. Not an XC bike, but more than capable for anything you want to throw at it.

    I had a Mammoth, and with the 5 inch rockers on the Lunchbox, I can't tell much in the way of difference in pedaling efficiency. The frame weight difference is about 1.5 lbs between the frames.

    I'm curious if Devin is planning on a Mammoth with 16.75 inch stays in the future, that would be a delight as well.

    For me, not being a suspension tuning guru, I appreciate the simplicity of the Monarch plus. I'm sure the DBair would be sublime if I took the time to try and set it up properly.

    Not speaking for Devin, but I very much doubt the geo or numbers on the Mammoth will be changing. Very different bikes with very different design intent.

    My med frame with seat collar, shock hardware, but no shock is 6.8#.

    One more pic from the early days of sussing out this chassis:

    The bike that started it all just got even better...-4a4b9926.jpg
    Last edited by mikesee; 03-04-2015 at 06:11 AM.

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    I am digging this USA made bike!What is the wheelbase and standover on the medium size frame?How wide can we go on the tire size out back?Would be nice to have an optional rear with a little longer stays to fit the surly knard/dirt wizard tires.I am looking for a one bike quiver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Now we've got a party!

    Mine is a large, I've ridden medium Lenz's before enough to know that I personally wanted a large. That being said, I don't have the chunk/steeps that Mike does so I like a little longer top tube. Plus he's pretty short I'm like a whole 2 1/4 inches taller, at least.

    I have mine set up with the 150mm Pike and M+ at the moment, although I might try the CCDBair again since I already have one. The M+ seems to be a good fit and match for the Pike.
    not pretending I know how tall MC is... so you're what, 6'1"-ish?

    most of the riding I'll be doing won't be the crazy steep/chunk like out west, but I have plenty of trails and places to go to get silly.

  72. #72
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    I'm 6ft ish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Colin's running a 150 fork with (relatively) small tires, and his BB is at 13.5". I've got a 160 fork with higher volume tires and mine sits at 13.8".

    The first proto had a ~14.15" BB, which is where I'd typically prefer it. I noticed, as did a few of the other testers, that with the tire tucked as tight to the BB as this one is, it was difficult to make pedal/ground contact in all of the 'usual spots'. We surmised that the shorter rear end allowed the rear tire to climb up/over the obstacle before your pedals or bash guard had a chance to get there. Clearly that won't/can't always be the case, but it was happening often enough that it felt right to drop the BB a titch to lower the CoG.

    Make sense?
    I'm glad you put that in writing. When we see this in the Specialized literature next year as one of their "innovations" we'll know who the original author is. Too bad they have probably been in McLaren's wind tunnel testing their new Enduro seat post clamp to sell next years model.

    Back on topic

    Any downsides to chainstays this short for this type of bike? Skittish on the downs? Completely different bike for completely different terrain, but my Atlas made everything easier and much more fun compared to my Rip9 with none of the downside people say about short CS.

    Been looking for a bike for my Snowshoe, WV and WNC trips. Initially, I can't think of a box this bike doesn't check.

  74. #74
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    Mike can chime in as well, but I've found that the front end stays planted better on this one than other bikes I've ridden with over an inch longer stays. You have traction galore, planted front, etc. The only limiting factor is me.

    The only people claiming short stays aren't important are the people not riding 'em.

    I haven't found a downside at all thus far, except I don't have enough time to ride it.

    Downhill stability is improved due to the lower BB and the fact that your front/center is longer with your butt over the rear wheel. The WB is long enough to be stable, but the rear is so short it keeps it lively and maneuverable for everything else.

    It really does tick all the boxes. I'm very picky about ,well everything, and I can't think of one thing that I would want that this one doesn't have.
    Last edited by Colin+M; 10-22-2013 at 05:49 AM. Reason: proofreading fail

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flip D View Post
    ...I can't think of a box this bike doesn't check.
    exactly what I said about 2 months and a few dollars ago.

    ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    I'm curious if Devin is planning on a Mammoth with 16.75 inch stays in the future, that would be a delight as well.
    That would be an intriguing bike, especially as a "Quiver Killer" like the Niner ad that is flashing on my screen as I type this (interestingly the RDO didn't quite fulfill that for you, eh?).

    I'd actually prefer the travel & rear spacing of this beast, but for some strange reason still like the option of using a bottle. Presumably a Punkass Mammoth would offer that, but at the expense of running a piggy back shock?
    ''It seems like a bit of a trend, everyone trying to make things longer over the last couple of years" Sam Hill

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimithng23 View Post
    exactly what I said about 2 months and a few dollars ago.

    ;-)
    Ditto.

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    Quote Originally Posted by miles e View Post
    That would be an intriguing bike, especially as a "Quiver Killer" like the Niner ad that is flashing on my screen as I type this (interestingly the RDO didn't quite fulfill that for you, eh?).

    I'd actually prefer the travel & rear spacing of this beast, but for some strange reason still like the option of using a bottle. Presumably a Punkass Mammoth would offer that, but at the expense of running a piggy back shock?
    I still have the RDO, as I wasn't sure how versatile a 150mm travel, 16.75 inch CS, 150mm Rear spaced bike would be but I have to say that I have been pleasantly surprised and I had extremely high expectations.

    The Niner does have a water bottle mount though

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    Speaking of 150 rear spacing...how would you compare the rear of the RDO vs the PunkAss Lunchbox?

    Every bike I've been on since owning a 150 rear 'Box, I can feel the rear flex when pushing in corners, maneuvering through rocky chunk, or slamming through a root garden.

    Up until that point, it was something I never really noticed. In fact, I thought it was simply an inherent trait of riding a bike through rough terrain.

    Fool me once...

  80. #80
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    I hate to say it's night and day, but it's night and day. Seriously.

    For example, you can take the rear wheel out on the Lenz and "try" to push the dropouts towards each other and it won't budge, seriously it won't. Now imagine that stiffness plus a 150mm wheel and it is holy effin shizz stiff. Steamroller Stiff. Confidence inspiring stiff. I'm gonna get myself in some trouble stiff.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post

    The Niner does have a water bottle mount though
    I was going to put down that it didn't have water bottle mounts for the lunch rides. I have a feeling that if you have this bike, it gets picked 99% of the time.

    My A-ha moment with chainstays came when I bought a Tracer 2. Rode it 26er, then converted with a tiny rear tire and finally with the longer .5" 650b dropouts. It was harder to loft the front end and hopping off ledges and boulders( out west ya'll probably call them rocks.) It lost it's mojo and I lost my confidence. I know from my MX days, bad things always follow so I sold it and never looked back.

    I see that MC is rockin' Derby rims also.
    Last edited by Flip D; 10-21-2013 at 07:25 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Ha!

    I know exactly what you're talking about WRT to "pushing" the dropouts in...they won't budge.

    Kinda makes a person snicker when you see the ad copy "142 rear end for maximum stiffness!"

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flip D View Post
    I was going to put down that it didn't have water bottle mounts for the lunch rides. I have a feeling that if you have this bike, it gets picked 99% of the time.

    My A-ha moment with chainstays came when I bought a Tracer 2. Rode it 26er, then converted with a tiny rear tire and finally with the longer .5" 650b dropouts. It was harder to loft the front end and hopping off ledges and boulders( out west ya'll probably call them rocks.) It lost it's mojo and I lost my confidence. I know from my MX days, bad things always follow so I sold it and never looked back.

    I see that MC is rockin' Derby rims also.
    Yeah, it's hard to go back once you've had a spin on shorter stays, especially when it climbs and descends so well with no perceivable downsides.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimithng23 View Post
    Ha!

    I know exactly what you're talking about WRT to "pushing" the dropouts in...they won't budge.

    Kinda makes a person snicker when you see the ad copy "142 rear end for maximum stiffness!"
    Yeah there definitely is a difference between marketing mumbo jumbo and reality. I'm ok not seeing my bike in full page ads or flashing at me while I peruse MTBR because I already know I have the baddest Betty on the block sitting in the garage.

  85. #85
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    So I'm on the Lenzsport website and I see old geo numbers, graphics, and no Rawthic option. Am I looking in the wrong place?

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    Quote Originally Posted by scvkurt03 View Post
    So I'm on the Lenzsport website and I see old geo numbers, graphics, and no Rawthic option. Am I looking in the wrong place?
    Nope. The site hasn't been updated yet.

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    The one thing you can learn from the website is that Devin is really really great at designing and building...bikes

    Geo wise the only things that are different are the chainstays, WB and BB height. With 150mm Fork~13.5, 160mm Fork~13.8 (varies slightly with tire choices of course).

    Mike could probably provide whatever numbers you're after however.

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    A lot of the important numbers have already been hashed out. This type of bike is going to be my next one, for sure, but I'd love it if I could hold out long enough for you, Colin, to have purchased and ridden an Enduro, WFO, TrailFox, and the 'Box.

    Get right on that, will ya?

    I'm on a new alloy RIP right now. Would you say the Lenz climbs anywhere near as well as your RDO?

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    Quote Originally Posted by scvkurt03 View Post
    A lot of the important numbers have already been hashed out. This type of bike is going to be my next one, for sure, but I'd love it if I could hold out long enough for you, Colin, to have purchased and ridden an Enduro, WFO, TrailFox, and the 'Box.

    Get right on that, will ya?
    Yessir, right away! Although I can tell you that I have no interest in the Enduro or the TrailFox so i wouldn't hold my breath. Also the only WFO I would be interested in would be a carbon version RDO as I really do like my Rip RDO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flip D View Post
    Any downsides to chainstays this short for this type of bike?
    In ~2 months of riding I haven't really been able to find one. If I *really* pick nits, I'd say it's a bit unstable at *really* high speeds--think bike park flow trails, pinned when chasing buddies and overshooting trannies. That was yet another vote cast to lower the BB a titch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    The only people claiming short stays are unimportant are the people not riding 'em.
    Fixed.

    Agreed on the rest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post


    By late 2006 we'd realized the need for shorter chainstays and a titch more travel, so Devin debuted the LunchBox with 17.2" stays and 6" of squish.
    You keep saying that, and I know it helps you tell your story, but the Lenz site has listed 17.375 for the last few years, so 17.2 vs. 17.4, who is correct, you or Lenz?

    Like I said before, I'm glad to see options. I've been waiting years for these bikes.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

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    After riding the loaner from mikesee, one of the most telling things is that for two full days of riding I never once took the rear shock out of the "full open" position. I didn't realize this until just a few minutes ago, but it didn't matter whether I was going thru the chunk on a descent or standing and (trying to) stomp up a punchy techy climb. I never craved more platform....
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Fixed.

    Agreed on the rest.
    Oops. Thanks

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    I will have to keep an eye on this and other similar threads... I love my Leviathan (Thanks again for that Mikesee, 3 seasons with a few drivetrain revisions and still going strong), but with all the DH friendly trail opening around the Upper Midwest it might finally be time to look into a second FS bike. Sounds like it might be a lot like my Yelli Screamy, but with suspension.

    I did meet a guy who had a 650b Lunchbox when I was in Spearfish, SD for the Dakota 5-0 and that was what really piqued my interest in looking for something with longer legs.

  96. #96
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    lenz is gonna do the behemoth with the short stays also.Just emailed for the geo chart for the new lunchbox.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The new and improved Lenz Lunchbox.

    Short chainstays? Check. 16.75 inches measured the honest way, from the center of the rear axle to the center of the BB.

    Travel? Check. 150mm.

    Stealth Dropper post routing? Check.

    Clean-ass cable routing? Check. Rear derailleur cable runs down the downtube, inside the rear chainstay and pops out right at the derailleur. Nice.

    Piggyback shocks? Check. Pick your favorite, it fits.

    150mm rear hub spacing? Check. Props to Banshee for doing this as well. It matters much more than the 15mm vs 20mm fork argument.

    Stiff as shizzzzzzz? Check. With the rear wheel removed, you can't budge the rear triangle. I've never had a bike that even comes close to this one in this regard.

    More pics to come. I've been too busy grinning and riding to take pics.

    Props to Devin Lenz on making a masterpiece, literally. He made it, with his hands, in his shop, in Colorado and it's a functional work of art.

    Forgot to add, BB height is 13.5 inches with the 150mm Pike. This improvement was huge for me as I always felt the previous model's BB height was a tad tall for east coast carving. Now it slays corners. I don't have the chunk and chunder like out west, so the additional height was a hinderance to getting that "in the bike" feel. Problem solved.
    150 Check
    I can use my CCDBa Check
    Short stays Check.

    That BB height has me interested. Perfect IMO. Even for Chunk. NOt sure how he did it because the pre-pro I saw from Mikesee was something like 14.25" HIgh BB's feel hobby horse to me at slow speeds. They have their advantages, but I don't like the feel.

    I have been off Lenz frames for a few years, but this one has me interested.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimithng23 View Post
    I know the bike in johndubs photos is a medium. Can't speak to Colin's.

    On a good day I'm 6'1"... Coming off a 2012 large Lunchbox. Loved the bike immensely but with the revisions Devin had made with the new version, I had to get my grubby paws on one.

    That said, after much debate and conversation with a few peeps in the know, I opted for a medium. I felt the large was a bit long in the TT, mostly in the chunk. Looking for the medium to be a bit quicker and more playful.

    The Lunchbox just begs to get rowdy no matter what trail you're on.
    6'1" here, and I disliked the large LB. The Medium was just right.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Colin's running a 150 fork with (relatively) small tires, and his BB is at 13.5". I've got a 160 fork with higher volume tires and mine sits at 13.8".

    The first proto had a ~14.15" BB, which is where I'd typically prefer it. I noticed, as did a few of the other testers, that with the tire tucked as tight to the BB as this one is, it was difficult to make pedal/ground contact in all of the 'usual spots'. We surmised that the shorter rear end allowed the rear tire to climb up/over the obstacle before your pedals or bash guard had a chance to get there. Clearly that won't/can't always be the case, but it was happening often enough that it felt right to drop the BB a titch to lower the CoG.

    Make sense?
    I found in hardtail testing that a short rear allows you to have a very low BB and still get away without hanging too much on ledges because the rear wheel hits the rock sooner. Get it?

    At least I think that is what you are saying. Best of both worlds IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  100. #100
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    This bike is relevant to my interests.

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