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  1. #1
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    The bike that started it all just got even better...

    The bike that started it all just got even better...-img_20131018_122010.jpg

    The new and improved Lenz Lunchbox.

    Short chainstays? Check. 16.75 inches measured the honest way, from the center of the rear axle to the center of the BB.

    Travel? Check. 150mm.

    Stealth Dropper post routing? Check.

    Clean-ass cable routing? Check. Rear derailleur cable runs down the downtube, inside the rear chainstay and pops out right at the derailleur. Nice.

    Piggyback shocks? Check. Pick your favorite, it fits.

    150mm rear hub spacing? Check. Props to Banshee for doing this as well. It matters much more than the 15mm vs 20mm fork argument.

    Stiff as shizzzzzzz? Check. With the rear wheel removed, you can't budge the rear triangle. I've never had a bike that even comes close to this one in this regard.

    More pics to come. I've been too busy grinning and riding to take pics.

    Props to Devin Lenz on making a masterpiece, literally. He made it, with his hands, in his shop, in Colorado and it's a functional work of art.

    Forgot to add, BB height is 13.5 inches with the 150mm Pike. This improvement was huge for me as I always felt the previous model's BB height was a tad tall for east coast carving. Now it slays corners. I don't have the chunk and chunder like out west, so the additional height was a hinderance to getting that "in the bike" feel. Problem solved.
    Last edited by Colin+M; 10-20-2013 at 08:06 AM.

  2. #2
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    Nice!

  3. #3
    Carbon & Ti rule
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    Yea more toys
    I have a 6 Berth camper van that I rent out . It is based in Tauranga, New Zealand

  4. #4
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    Heard this was on the horizon. Nice!
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  5. #5
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    When and how much? DEEEEETTTTAAAAILLLLLSSSS!!

  6. #6
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    Damn Dude, you got it already? Full ride report.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
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  7. #7
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    Brown santa is bringing mine this week....

  8. #8
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    Excellent. You'll love it, guaranteed. What finish did you go with?

  9. #9
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    Rawthic.

    There's no doubt in my mind on the amount of affection I'll have towards this new frame.

  10. #10
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    Excellent choice. I love the rawthic, obviously. Very industrial.

  11. #11
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    One more "real" choice as far as I'm concerned. Awesome.

    *although I think the Karate Monkey had a lot more to do with 29er acceptance *
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  12. #12
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    I agree with the Monkey in terms of 29ers in general. Devin was ahead of his time in terms of short chainstay/long travel full suspension 29ers.

  13. #13
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    Aah it all becomes clear!

    Nice!

  14. #14
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    Yep

  15. #15
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    So how does it ride compared to the Yeti? It's great to see another company (that doesn't have a big stupid S on its head tube!) bring out a long travel 2-9er with short stays. I'm intrigued...

  16. #16
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    nice bike!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just J View Post
    So how does it ride compared to the Yeti? It's great to see another company (that doesn't have a big stupid S on its head tube!) bring out a long travel 2-9er with short stays. I'm intrigued...
    That's one of the reasons I was so stoked, I didn't have to buy a Specialized to get sub 17 inch CS and long travel.

    It's hard to compare to the SB95c since I've never ridden a bike that handles like the Lenz does, both up and down the trail. Steep climbs have traction galore. It's like riding a unicycle with a front wheel and I mean that in the best way possible.

    As far as actual measurements go, the chainstay is a full inch shorter on the Lenz compared to the Yeti and you can't help but notice.

  18. #18
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    Very interesting indeed. I'll be watching out for more reports as you spend more time with it...

  19. #19
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    Love it Colin. Is the 16.75" chainstay standard on the LB these days or was that a custom option like the lower BB?

  20. #20
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    I think it is going to become the norm. Devin has re-vamped things, so mine isn't a custom it's just one of the first ones. Although if I were to go custom, this would be it. I can't think of anything this one doesn't have that I would want.

  21. #21
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    LunchBox seconded

    **Full Disclosure: I've been a Lenz dealer for a few years, but Lenz's have been my mountain bike of choice since the first prototype Leviathans. Sorry if some would think this sounds like spam -- I'm just writing my experience on this bike the last few days. Feel free to stop reading now**

    The bike that started it all just got even better...-1-img_3624.jpg

    Sorry about the mediocre pictures -- I had to get out early so the light was less than ideal.

    The bike that started it all just got even better...-2-img_3626.jpg

    Have to agree with Colin +M. Just got done with my second ride with the new 'Box. I was fortunate that mikesee was kind enough to loan me his for the weekend while he was off playing in Canyonlands on his Fatmoth. My new LunchBox should be here in the next week or so -- I'm having mine painted which takes a bit longer than the Rawthic.

    Love that everything is so clean on the routing - no cables in the way on the top tube, no growth of the dropper hose when you get the seat low.

    The short chainstays are immediately noticeable. I'm not a wheelie guy -- never had that gene -- but with this bike it's intuitive to get the front wheel up. I was late in manualing a few times in ledge-y sections of the trail and was pleasantly surprised that I was still able to save it and land clean because it takes much less input to do so.

    The suspension feels perfect....no twist or wiggle in the rear end even when you land off kilter (which I am prone to do at times ;-)) which has been a hallmark of all the Lenz's I've owned, and the travel just feels....well, choose your favorite suspension adjective....smooth, bottomless, buttery, linear....

    Best yet, the bike actually pedals. It is a 6" bike, but I found it to go uphill without having to go through any on-the-saddle gymnastics to keep the front wheel down or under control. I pedaled...I steered. Done.

    The Pike fork is brilliant...I may also go for the 160mm upgrade on mine....but it feels better than any fork I've ever ridden.

    Can't wait for mine to get here....
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  22. #22
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    That's a beaut. Already has me rethinking my carbon addiction.

  23. #23
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    It's the best bike I've owned regardless of frame material. It is a bonus knowing that if/when I lay it down it will only add character to the bike instead of make me nauseated.

    That being said, I still have my my Niner Rip9 RDO for my XC bike

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    It's the best bike I've owned regardless of frame material. It is a bonus knowing that if/when I lay it down it will only add character to the bike instead of make me nauseated.

    That being said, I still have my my Niner Rip9 RDO for my XC bike
    Interested to hear your thoughts on the Monarch Plus. Thinking about putting one on my TB LTc.

  25. #25
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    Do it already. It is a great match with the Pike. Much needed midstroke support compared to the Fox.

  26. #26
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    No matter what he says, he'll ride for a month or two and we'll see the next new bike.

    Colin have you ever ridden a Devinci Atlas? I'm asking because I don't need the travel, so I've been thinking of trading the TBc for an Atlas for the short chainstays.
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  27. #27
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    Weight? And 1x only, yes?

    Like the way the Lenz's ride. Torn between this and Mammoth for a one bike quiver. The short CS's and burliness of the 'box are appealing, but the weight and possible efficiency increase of the mammoth make it tough to choose.

    Also curious to your thoughts on the monarch plus vs CCDBA (I think you had one on a Spider Comp?)

  28. #28
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    I do have a history of such things...but I think I'll keep this one for awhile longer than the others. Mainly because I've been following along on the entire development process of it for months so it's kinda like a family member at this point.

    I haven't ridden a Devinci, but I can tell you that short stays make a difference so I might be worth a look.

  29. #29
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    Colin+M
    Please compare and contrast with the Rip9 Rdo. Thanks for all your contributions here

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    No matter what he says, he'll ride for a month or two and we'll see the next new bike.
    LOL

    Yep I will sell a bike because the brake pads are worn.

    Colin+m will sell 1 because the Tires need air
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Forgot to add, BB height is 13.5 inches with the 150mm Pike. This improvement was huge for me as I always felt the previous model's BB height was a tad tall for east coast carving. Now it slays corners. I don't have the chunk and chunder like out west, so the additional height was a hinderance to getting that "in the bike" feel. Problem solved.
    Nice looking bike. Is the lower BB the only option now or can you still get the 14" BB. I live in rocky/rooty terrain so I appreciate a higher BB.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Rock View Post
    Weight? And 1x only, yes?

    Like the way the Lenz's ride. Torn between this and Mammoth for a one bike quiver. The short CS's and burliness of the 'box are appealing, but the weight and possible efficiency increase of the mammoth make it tough to choose.

    Also curious to your thoughts on the monarch plus vs CCDBA (I think you had one on a Spider Comp?)
    Frame weight was right around 7.6 lbs w/o shock, bike as pictured above with pedals, sealant etc etc is 29.5 lbs. Not an XC bike, but more than capable for anything you want to throw at it.

    I had a Mammoth, and with the 5 inch rockers on the Lunchbox, I can't tell much in the way of difference in pedaling efficiency. The frame weight difference is about 1.5 lbs between the frames.

    I'm curious if Devin is planning on a Mammoth with 16.75 inch stays in the future, that would be a delight as well.

    For me, not being a suspension tuning guru, I appreciate the simplicity of the Monarch plus. I'm sure the DBair would be sublime if I took the time to try and set it up properly.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    LOL

    Yep I will sell a bike because the brake pads are worn.

    Colin+m will sell 1 because the Tires need air
    Now that is funny

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Nice looking bike. Is the lower BB the only option now or can you still get the 14" BB. I live in rocky/rooty terrain so I appreciate a higher BB.
    I'm not sure to be honest. I didn't order it "custom" so I'm thinking the lower BB is gonna be standard. I know Mike C. is running his with a 160mm Pike and hasn't had much in terms of trouble with the boulders he rides daily. I personally think the BB needed to come down some, I've ridden the older Boxes and this lower version feels much more stable and "modern" if you will.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by tws_andrew View Post
    Colin+M
    Please compare and contrast with the Rip9 Rdo. Thanks for all your contributions here
    I still have the Rip RDO, will need some more saddle time on both to really give you an honest answer. The RDO is really really good and really different from the Lunchbox. Even with 1 inch shorter chainstays, the Lenz is about 1/2 inch longer in WB. BB height is higher on the Niner. Pedaling efficiency is close, both are nice and active on chunk/roots with gobs of traction. The Niner is obviously lighter and the Lenz is overall stiffer. Reach feels longer on the Niner in size large vs. the Lenz in size large.

    If I had to keep only one...

    Stay tuned

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Frame weight was right around 7.6 lbs w/o shock, bike as pictured above with pedals, sealant etc etc is 29.5 lbs. Not an XC bike, but more than capable for anything you want to throw at it.

    I had a Mammoth, and with the 5 inch rockers on the Lunchbox, I can't tell much in the way of difference in pedaling efficiency. The frame weight difference is about 1.5 lbs between the frames.

    I'm curious if Devin is planning on a Mammoth with 16.75 inch stays in the future, that would be a delight as well.

    For me, not being a suspension tuning guru, I appreciate the simplicity of the Monarch plus. I'm sure the DBair would be sublime if I took the time to try and set it up properly.
    Seems pretty reasonable for a 6" bike. Could be a fun coil sprung rig and have a Mammoth for the xc rides...but that's just not in the budget. I also pedal a 31.5 lb bike right now as my xc rig so 29.5 seems reasonable, which also means that a mammoth in the same build would be ~27lbs.

    My understanding is that the Mammoth is more of a xc oriented bike so the reduction in chain stays would take away from the climbing and intent of the frame. Just a hunch anyway, although the thought certainly crossed my mind.

    Thanks for the feedback.

  37. #37
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    The one I was riding (mikesee's) weighed in at 30 lbs 2 oz. with pedals.
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  38. #38
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    Are you saying its chainstays are more like 16.5", being a full inch shorter than the SB95c (17.5"), when measured in the "less honest way"? The "less honest way" being a horizontal measurement from BB to axle, which doesn't factor in BB drop? Who knows if any of the measurements take sag (considering chain growth) into account.
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  39. #39
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    Colin,

    In the original picture you posted, did you have a MTX-33 on the front?

    Is that a medium frame?

    This seems to fix most of the complaints I have with my medium 2010 Lunchbox frame (rear tire clearance, no piggy back shock, straight 1 1/8 head tube; I learned my lesson buying an older frame even at a really great discount).

    The problem I have is that I am "higher" on my LB than on my Prime or 2010 WFO.

    I have a 385 mm Reverb inserted down as far as it will go on my LB.

    When measured from the floor, my LB seat height is two inches higher when slammed.

    That two inches makes a big difference to me, I feel more above the bike than in the bike on corners and on steeper stuff.

    Can you tell me how far your seat post can be inserted? And what is the height of the seat collar from the floor?

    My LB's seat collar height is just under 33 inches and my other bikes are around 31 inches.

    Does the new frame take the same size shock (7.875 x 2.0, 200x51)?

    I hope they update the Lunchbox specs on their site...

    I'd like to run a 6" dropper, but not if my lowest seat position will be higher since the overall seatpost length is longer and the length that can be inserted down the seat tube is limited.

    I also need to verify how low my seat will be on a medium Enduro 29 with a dropper...I'll probably take one on the demo ride next month. I don't like bikes that require specific custom shocks with special mountings...but I can get a replacement CCDB air CS, which is the only shock I would want to run on that frame.

    Thanks.

    JB

  40. #40
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    I'm wondering what size frame this is too. The cockpit looks a little cramped but I know pics don't tell the whole story.

    I started watching some videos with Lenz bikes and they have really peaked my interest. Being a short guy, (5'-7") on a good hair day, finding a good fitting bike is tough.
    Let's make like a Bike and get the Huck outta here...

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Rock View Post
    Weight? And 1x only, yes?

    Like the way the Lenz's ride. Torn between this and Mammoth for a one bike quiver. The short CS's and burliness of the 'box are appealing, but the weight and possible efficiency increase of the mammoth make it tough to choose.

    Also curious to your thoughts on the monarch plus vs CCDBA (I think you had one on a Spider Comp?)
    Have you considered the Behemoth? Same travel as the Mammoth, but a burlier frame for more AM style riding. I'd assume the frame weight would be between the Mammoth and the LB. Might be worth giving Devin a call/email and ask his advice.

  42. #42
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    I'm just glad more manufacturers are doing this and I hope to see more trailbikes and XC bikes with "normal" geometry soon...
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  43. #43
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    The bike that started it all just got even better...

    I know the bike in johndubs photos is a medium. Can't speak to Colin's.

    On a good day I'm 6'1"... Coming off a 2012 large Lunchbox. Loved the bike immensely but with the revisions Devin had made with the new version, I had to get my grubby paws on one.

    That said, after much debate and conversation with a few peeps in the know, I opted for a medium. I felt the large was a bit long in the TT, mostly in the chunk. Looking for the medium to be a bit quicker and more playful.

    The Lunchbox just begs to get rowdy no matter what trail you're on.

  44. #44
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    A teeny little history lesson.

    Looks good man--not that you can tell that much from that *ONE MEASLY PIC*!Let's see if I can shine a little light on the subject:Back in 2005 I asked Devin Lenz to create a 'long travel' 29"er. The 5" travel Behemoth is what came from that, and while forks, rims, and tires took a few years to 'catch up', it was (and is) still a very capable bike.By late 2006 we'd realized the need for shorter chainstays and a titch more travel, so Devin debuted the LunchBox with 17.2" stays and 6" of squish. It was the longest travel production bike for years, and to this day there are few 29"ers with a rear end that approaches the short/sportiness of it.I rode that original LunchBox *everywhere*. It is not a stretch to say that that bike taught me how to ride aggressive terrain with confidence.And although it'd be better than 5 years until any other manufacturer came close to going this short out back, Devin and I kept wondering "What if?"That is, what if we went even shorter?The limiting factor was always the front derailleur--and until XX1 arrived we were unwilling to lose the friendly gears needed to crawl up the rockies. Once I had a bit of time on XX1 and saw the potential, I installed a writ-large bug in Devin's ear to go as short as he could go while still maintaining the geometry that makes this chassis so capable.We put the first prototype under several pro racers--from enduro to DH to ultra-endurance. We took their feedback and added it to a growing pile. Then we unleashed our own non-professional selves on it. In testing we didn't limit it to 'one setup'--we used both coil forks and air, 6 different kinds (and tunes) of rear shock from the Monarch Plus to the Vivid Air, CCDB-A to DHX-A to the Vivid coil. We ran it with different combos of rim and tire, both tubed and tubeless, fiddled with the cockpit reach and rise, and used the "old" LunchBox leverage ratio and spring curve as mere springboards to suggest where we might start to seek perfection with the new one.In short, we took our time and ticked every box until we were sure we had it right. And then Devin went into production.It is not a stretch to say that this is *the* single most capable *and* fun bike I've ever ridden. It does everything I ask of it really, really well, from climbing steep chunkies to manualing at 20mph through Moab ledges, to dropping the occasional 10' huck that I've somehow become convinced is a good idea. I'm a long ways from able to be objective about it, obviously--because it's the bike I've always wanted and it's the bike I've been asking for.We knew that going shorter out back was going to unleash a manualing machine on the descents--and it has. What is most surprising, still, on every ride, is how much better it climbs (both seated and standing) relative to, well, anything else we've tried. It is honestly the most adept climber I've ever swung a leg over.Need to get back to work--will try to check in later to answer a few questions.Cheers,MC
    Last edited by mikesee; 03-04-2015 at 05:14 AM.
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by In-Yo-Grill View Post
    I'm wondering what size frame this is too. The cockpit looks a little cramped but I know pics don't tell the whole story.

    I started watching some videos with Lenz bikes and they have really peaked my interest. Being a short guy, (5'-7") on a good hair day, finding a good fitting bike is tough.
    I'm 5'-8", my Lunchbox and PBJ are both supposed to be mediums, their seat collar height from the floor is identical.

    They do make size small...maybe I should have gotten size small (my WFO is a small and my Prime Prototype is a medium - I think the TT on both these two seem pretty close).

    Not being able to test ride before you buy makes purchasing the right size more difficult.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    [CENTER]
    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/EAKO9rYenSOTbawaOjYiqB7b25IpCDnuFfoBy9dgzwc?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-M_LysKmOxPQ/UmVSpfx9rjI/AAAAAAAAlSg/rs7SZgxPT7E/s800/sb13.JPG" height="474" width="800" /></a>
    Wow - that's nice!
    Safe riding,

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  47. #47
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    Does it say PUNKASS on the seatstay?

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    Does it say PUNKASS on the seatstay?
    Yep. That's Devinspeak for 'short rear'!
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  49. #49
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    Recently overheard in my living room: "Honey my next bike is going to be a hardtail. I'm not getting a new full suspension bike."

    ...whelp.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    Recently overheard in my living room: "Honey my next bike is going to be a hardtail. I'm not getting a new full suspension bike."

    ...whelp.
    It takes a big man to admit he was wrong.

    I recommend denial. Never happened...
    Handbuilt wheels: www.LaceMine29.com

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