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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    I'm curious if Devin is planning on a Mammoth with 16.75 inch stays in the future, that would be a delight as well.
    That would be an intriguing bike, especially as a "Quiver Killer" like the Niner ad that is flashing on my screen as I type this (interestingly the RDO didn't quite fulfill that for you, eh?).

    I'd actually prefer the travel & rear spacing of this beast, but for some strange reason still like the option of using a bottle. Presumably a Punkass Mammoth would offer that, but at the expense of running a piggy back shock?
    A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimithng23 View Post
    exactly what I said about 2 months and a few dollars ago.

    ;-)
    Ditto.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by miles e View Post
    That would be an intriguing bike, especially as a "Quiver Killer" like the Niner ad that is flashing on my screen as I type this (interestingly the RDO didn't quite fulfill that for you, eh?).

    I'd actually prefer the travel & rear spacing of this beast, but for some strange reason still like the option of using a bottle. Presumably a Punkass Mammoth would offer that, but at the expense of running a piggy back shock?
    I still have the RDO, as I wasn't sure how versatile a 150mm travel, 16.75 inch CS, 150mm Rear spaced bike would be but I have to say that I have been pleasantly surprised and I had extremely high expectations.

    The Niner does have a water bottle mount though

  4. #79
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    Speaking of 150 rear spacing...how would you compare the rear of the RDO vs the PunkAss Lunchbox?

    Every bike I've been on since owning a 150 rear 'Box, I can feel the rear flex when pushing in corners, maneuvering through rocky chunk, or slamming through a root garden.

    Up until that point, it was something I never really noticed. In fact, I thought it was simply an inherent trait of riding a bike through rough terrain.

    Fool me once...

  5. #80
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    I hate to say it's night and day, but it's night and day. Seriously.

    For example, you can take the rear wheel out on the Lenz and "try" to push the dropouts towards each other and it won't budge, seriously it won't. Now imagine that stiffness plus a 150mm wheel and it is holy effin shizz stiff. Steamroller Stiff. Confidence inspiring stiff. I'm gonna get myself in some trouble stiff.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post

    The Niner does have a water bottle mount though
    I was going to put down that it didn't have water bottle mounts for the lunch rides. I have a feeling that if you have this bike, it gets picked 99% of the time.

    My A-ha moment with chainstays came when I bought a Tracer 2. Rode it 26er, then converted with a tiny rear tire and finally with the longer .5" 650b dropouts. It was harder to loft the front end and hopping off ledges and boulders( out west ya'll probably call them rocks.) It lost it's mojo and I lost my confidence. I know from my MX days, bad things always follow so I sold it and never looked back.

    I see that MC is rockin' Derby rims also.
    Last edited by Flip D; 10-21-2013 at 07:25 PM. Reason: spelling

  7. #82
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    Ha!

    I know exactly what you're talking about WRT to "pushing" the dropouts in...they won't budge.

    Kinda makes a person snicker when you see the ad copy "142 rear end for maximum stiffness!"

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flip D View Post
    I was going to put down that it didn't have water bottle mounts for the lunch rides. I have a feeling that if you have this bike, it gets picked 99% of the time.

    My A-ha moment with chainstays came when I bought a Tracer 2. Rode it 26er, then converted with a tiny rear tire and finally with the longer .5" 650b dropouts. It was harder to loft the front end and hopping off ledges and boulders( out west ya'll probably call them rocks.) It lost it's mojo and I lost my confidence. I know from my MX days, bad things always follow so I sold it and never looked back.

    I see that MC is rockin' Derby rims also.
    Yeah, it's hard to go back once you've had a spin on shorter stays, especially when it climbs and descends so well with no perceivable downsides.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimithng23 View Post
    Ha!

    I know exactly what you're talking about WRT to "pushing" the dropouts in...they won't budge.

    Kinda makes a person snicker when you see the ad copy "142 rear end for maximum stiffness!"
    Yeah there definitely is a difference between marketing mumbo jumbo and reality. I'm ok not seeing my bike in full page ads or flashing at me while I peruse MTBR because I already know I have the baddest Betty on the block sitting in the garage.

  10. #85
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    So I'm on the Lenzsport website and I see old geo numbers, graphics, and no Rawthic option. Am I looking in the wrong place?

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by scvkurt03 View Post
    So I'm on the Lenzsport website and I see old geo numbers, graphics, and no Rawthic option. Am I looking in the wrong place?
    Nope. The site hasn't been updated yet.

  12. #87
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    The one thing you can learn from the website is that Devin is really really great at designing and building...bikes

    Geo wise the only things that are different are the chainstays, WB and BB height. With 150mm Fork~13.5, 160mm Fork~13.8 (varies slightly with tire choices of course).

    Mike could probably provide whatever numbers you're after however.

  13. #88
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    A lot of the important numbers have already been hashed out. This type of bike is going to be my next one, for sure, but I'd love it if I could hold out long enough for you, Colin, to have purchased and ridden an Enduro, WFO, TrailFox, and the 'Box.

    Get right on that, will ya?

    I'm on a new alloy RIP right now. Would you say the Lenz climbs anywhere near as well as your RDO?

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by scvkurt03 View Post
    A lot of the important numbers have already been hashed out. This type of bike is going to be my next one, for sure, but I'd love it if I could hold out long enough for you, Colin, to have purchased and ridden an Enduro, WFO, TrailFox, and the 'Box.

    Get right on that, will ya?
    Yessir, right away! Although I can tell you that I have no interest in the Enduro or the TrailFox so i wouldn't hold my breath. Also the only WFO I would be interested in would be a carbon version RDO as I really do like my Rip RDO.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flip D View Post
    Any downsides to chainstays this short for this type of bike?
    In ~2 months of riding I haven't really been able to find one. If I *really* pick nits, I'd say it's a bit unstable at *really* high speeds--think bike park flow trails, pinned when chasing buddies and overshooting trannies. That was yet another vote cast to lower the BB a titch.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    The only people claiming short stays are unimportant are the people not riding 'em.
    Fixed.

    Agreed on the rest.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post


    By late 2006 we'd realized the need for shorter chainstays and a titch more travel, so Devin debuted the LunchBox with 17.2" stays and 6" of squish.
    You keep saying that, and I know it helps you tell your story, but the Lenz site has listed 17.375 for the last few years, so 17.2 vs. 17.4, who is correct, you or Lenz?

    Like I said before, I'm glad to see options. I've been waiting years for these bikes.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  18. #93
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    After riding the loaner from mikesee, one of the most telling things is that for two full days of riding I never once took the rear shock out of the "full open" position. I didn't realize this until just a few minutes ago, but it didn't matter whether I was going thru the chunk on a descent or standing and (trying to) stomp up a punchy techy climb. I never craved more platform....
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  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Fixed.

    Agreed on the rest.
    Oops. Thanks

  20. #95
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    I will have to keep an eye on this and other similar threads... I love my Leviathan (Thanks again for that Mikesee, 3 seasons with a few drivetrain revisions and still going strong), but with all the DH friendly trail opening around the Upper Midwest it might finally be time to look into a second FS bike. Sounds like it might be a lot like my Yelli Screamy, but with suspension.

    I did meet a guy who had a 650b Lunchbox when I was in Spearfish, SD for the Dakota 5-0 and that was what really piqued my interest in looking for something with longer legs.

  21. #96
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    lenz is gonna do the behemoth with the short stays also.Just emailed for the geo chart for the new lunchbox.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Attachment 840329

    The new and improved Lenz Lunchbox.

    Short chainstays? Check. 16.75 inches measured the honest way, from the center of the rear axle to the center of the BB.

    Travel? Check. 150mm.

    Stealth Dropper post routing? Check.

    Clean-ass cable routing? Check. Rear derailleur cable runs down the downtube, inside the rear chainstay and pops out right at the derailleur. Nice.

    Piggyback shocks? Check. Pick your favorite, it fits.

    150mm rear hub spacing? Check. Props to Banshee for doing this as well. It matters much more than the 15mm vs 20mm fork argument.

    Stiff as shizzzzzzz? Check. With the rear wheel removed, you can't budge the rear triangle. I've never had a bike that even comes close to this one in this regard.

    More pics to come. I've been too busy grinning and riding to take pics.

    Props to Devin Lenz on making a masterpiece, literally. He made it, with his hands, in his shop, in Colorado and it's a functional work of art.

    Forgot to add, BB height is 13.5 inches with the 150mm Pike. This improvement was huge for me as I always felt the previous model's BB height was a tad tall for east coast carving. Now it slays corners. I don't have the chunk and chunder like out west, so the additional height was a hinderance to getting that "in the bike" feel. Problem solved.
    150 Check
    I can use my CCDBa Check
    Short stays Check.

    That BB height has me interested. Perfect IMO. Even for Chunk. NOt sure how he did it because the pre-pro I saw from Mikesee was something like 14.25" HIgh BB's feel hobby horse to me at slow speeds. They have their advantages, but I don't like the feel.

    I have been off Lenz frames for a few years, but this one has me interested.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimithng23 View Post
    I know the bike in johndubs photos is a medium. Can't speak to Colin's.

    On a good day I'm 6'1"... Coming off a 2012 large Lunchbox. Loved the bike immensely but with the revisions Devin had made with the new version, I had to get my grubby paws on one.

    That said, after much debate and conversation with a few peeps in the know, I opted for a medium. I felt the large was a bit long in the TT, mostly in the chunk. Looking for the medium to be a bit quicker and more playful.

    The Lunchbox just begs to get rowdy no matter what trail you're on.
    6'1" here, and I disliked the large LB. The Medium was just right.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Colin's running a 150 fork with (relatively) small tires, and his BB is at 13.5". I've got a 160 fork with higher volume tires and mine sits at 13.8".

    The first proto had a ~14.15" BB, which is where I'd typically prefer it. I noticed, as did a few of the other testers, that with the tire tucked as tight to the BB as this one is, it was difficult to make pedal/ground contact in all of the 'usual spots'. We surmised that the shorter rear end allowed the rear tire to climb up/over the obstacle before your pedals or bash guard had a chance to get there. Clearly that won't/can't always be the case, but it was happening often enough that it felt right to drop the BB a titch to lower the CoG.

    Make sense?
    I found in hardtail testing that a short rear allows you to have a very low BB and still get away without hanging too much on ledges because the rear wheel hits the rock sooner. Get it?

    At least I think that is what you are saying. Best of both worlds IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  25. #100
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    This bike is relevant to my interests.

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