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  1. #1601
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machianera View Post
    I was away for a month and ended up riding an enduro 29 few times.
    When I went back to the Lenz, the first thing I did was popping a wheelie and found my ass on the ground. I pretty much flipped. That happened because I got use to the enduro 29 and the Lenz is so much easier to lift off the ground.

    The main difference is the geometry. Short chainstay and low bb is not the same as short cs and high bb. The enduro is a long legged xc bike compared to the Lenz. The Lenz pedals better and the suspension is less noticeable.
    Again it sounds like the Lenz would be fine for twisty turns and rolling down chunk.....but for climbing and higher speeds.....I just don't see it.

    I have demoed several bikes over the past few months (many that you have) and there is no "perfect bike". There are trade offs. Example the Hightower will plow over anything but is not the most nimble. Pivot SW is very nimble with its short stays but not the best climber.

    No matter what the Lenz fan boys say the bike is not sprinkled with magic pixie dust. Again if tight turns, drops and little climbing is your thing the bike sounds great.

    However if climbing and higher speeds are your thing the short stays and suspension design holds it back.

  2. #1602
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29Inches View Post
    Again it sounds like the Lenz would be fine for twisty turns and rolling down chunk.....but for climbing and higher speeds.....I just don't see it.

    I have demoed several bikes over the past few months (many that you have) and there is no "perfect bike". There are trade offs. Example the Hightower will plow over anything but is not the most nimble. Pivot SW is very nimble with its short stays but not the best climber.

    No matter what the Lenz fan boys say the bike is not sprinkled with magic pixie dust. Again if tight turns, drops and little climbing is your thing the bike sounds great.

    However if climbing and higher speeds are your thing the short stays and suspension design holds it back.
    Why are you writing on this thread if you:
    - Never rode a Lenz but know how it rides
    - Need a 5/6 inches bike for fast and long climbing (?)
    - Think that short stays means bad climbing (is the opposite but rest of geometry is key).

    Maybe post a picture of you current bike and terrain you ride. Where do you live? So we are all on the same page.

    And moreover do you actually need a long travel 29er? It sounds like you are looking for a burly xc bike if you think the hightower is a truck. Or dont ride fast enough.

  3. #1603
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    It's great that you've chimed in with your experience on both bikes. That's valuable to others considering one (or the other) of these bikes.

    But surely you don't expect people to believe you? I mean c'mon -- there are at least 2 non-Lenz owners (whom may or may not actually ride bicycles) chiming in to this thread to tell you there are machines out there that have "ridden" these bikes and that can "prove" that what you think and feel about your Lenz simply isn't true.
    I am coming to the conclusion that "may or not" ride bikes is pretty accurate. I wonder where did they test these bikes. It seems they may have a chip on the shoulder about some members here.

    Going back to my enduro experience... i dont think these bikes are comparable. The suspension is very noticable. Cant climb with the shock open. And overall the low bb drop does not make it suitable for technical fast riding. Yes if you go down a very fast smooth open trail, the enduro is easier to handle. The position on the bike is more basic. All the ews pros on the enduro, run 170-180 forks on their bikes becuse the low bb drop. Pedal strikes and all. And lifting the front wheel, hopping etc on the enduro requires much more energy. That said it was an ok bike, but too much middle ground. Can't think of a place to ride where it would be the perfect match.

  4. #1604
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machianera View Post
    Why are you writing on this thread if you:
    - Never rode a Lenz but know how it rides
    - Need a 5/6 inches bike for fast and long climbing (?)
    - Think that short stays means bad climbing (is the opposite but rest of geometry is key).

    Maybe post a picture of you current bike and terrain you ride. Where do you live? So we are all on the same page.

    And moreover do you actually need a long travel 29er? It sounds like you are looking for a burly xc bike if you think the hightower is a truck. Or dont ride fast enough.
    No I liked the HT very much and it came in 2nd when I was shopping for my new rig. I ride just about everything.....SS, endurance racing and steep technical stuff. What I have learned is different bikes for different trails.

    I am sure you like you Lenz....enjoy :-)

  5. #1605
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    Quote Originally Posted by FluorescentPinkPanda View Post
    I've noticed that over the years, the bottom bracket height of the LB has dropped significantly. How does this affect things (good or bad)? Can an inch really make that big of a difference in handling? I imagine higher BBs are less prone to strikes.
    1 inch is huge difference. 5mm is noticable. Regardless bb height is not a good system on mtb. Because it changes depending on rim and tire. BB drop is more accurate.
    A low bb drop bike is easier to handle. That is why 29ers are so popular.
    A smaller bb drop makes the bike more capable on tech terrain bit harder to handle at speed. Which means 40mph+.

    Quote Originally Posted by FluorescentPinkPanda View Post
    What if I was not too concerned about pedaling/climbing efficiency. How good is the LB at descending vs. other long-travel 29ers?
    What kind of terrain?
    Open fast smooth trails, any bike with a lower bb and long chainstays will be easier to handle. But you dont need a 5 inch bike for it.
    Anything else, the Lenz will be better. A lot of the new long travel 29er are more xc trail than a LB or Behemoth. They are more comparable to a Lenz Mammoth.
    Quote Originally Posted by FluorescentPinkPanda View Post

    My current XC frame has 100mm of rear travel. What kind of differences will I notice if I go to 150mm? Will certain aspects of handling suffer? I keep wanting more and more travel, but I'm not sure what I'm getting myself into.
    It depends on the reason why are you going from 100 to 150. A 100 bike is made to work well going up, down and on flats. A 150 bike is made to go down fast and ride technical stuff. It is heavier. You sit more upright. It is easier to get off the ground. You are probably looking into totally different trails than the ones you ride on the 100.
    Each bike is made to handle well in the designed terrain. A 150 bike on a xc course will be a like riding a xc bike on a road ride.

  6. #1606
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29Inches View Post
    Again it sounds like the Lenz would be fine for twisty turns and rolling down chunk.....but for climbing and higher speeds.....I just don't see it.

    I have demoed several bikes over the past few months (many that you have) and there is no "perfect bike". There are trade offs. Example the Hightower will plow over anything but is not the most nimble. Pivot SW is very nimble with its short stays but not the best climber.

    No matter what the Lenz fan boys say the bike is not sprinkled with magic pixie dust. Again if tight turns, drops and little climbing is your thing the bike sounds great.

    However if climbing and higher speeds are your thing the short stays and suspension design holds it back.
    We can agree that there is no perfect bike.

    We can also agree that there is no pixie dust involved: The LunchBox has compromises like any other bike.

    It is clear that you are absolutely clueless when you say the LunchBox can't climb. Just couldn't be further from the truth.

    Likewise with your blanket statement about the "suspension holding it back". Perhaps the numbers can be tweaked on some computer program somewhere to say it ain't so, but spend some time in the saddle with one, after dialing it in for you, and you find that the suspension is excellent -- both uphill and down.

  7. #1607
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29Inches View Post
    No I liked the HT very much and it came in 2nd when I was shopping for my new rig. I ride just about everything.....SS, endurance racing and steep technical stuff. What I have learned is different bikes for different trails.

    I am sure you like you Lenz....enjoy :-)
    What I dont get is... why are you here talking about Lenz bikes? You never rode one, you just got a new bike and you still have the urgency of outing your suppositions about something you did not experience?
    Still waiting for pictures. And if you ride endurance we may be the same age

  8. #1608
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29Inches View Post
    Again it sounds like the Lenz would be fine for twisty turns and rolling down chunk.....but for climbing and higher speeds.....I just don't see it.

    I have demoed several bikes over the past few months (many that you have) and there is no "perfect bike". There are trade offs. Example the Hightower will plow over anything but is not the most nimble. Pivot SW is very nimble with its short stays but not the best climber.

    No matter what the Lenz fan boys say the bike is not sprinkled with magic pixie dust. Again if tight turns, drops and little climbing is your thing the bike sounds great.

    However if climbing and higher speeds are your thing the short stays and suspension design holds it back.
    You sound just like the guys on the Tallboy LT thread, that look at numbers and then comment on how the bike rides, while actual owners disagree and say you need to ride it.

    The Lunchbox climbs really well. I live on the east coast and all my trails are short, quick, rooty, rocky ups and downs. Lenz did better than Specialized FSR on the trails.
    Tantrum incoming
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  9. #1609
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    So, um, an update.

    The LunchBox as discussed here is a project I've been involved with for...

    ...ever. Since before it existed. Not going to say it was my idea, but...

    ...it sort of was. It became a reality only because Devin was willing to indulge me, and because he likes riding badass bikes as much as the next guy. And the LunchBox was, per the title of this thread, "The bike that started it all". Long travel 29" wasn't a thing until these bikes existed, and they kept pushing that envelope with each successive iteration. Up to and including today.

    That said, I don't own one anymore. You can read the details on why (why not?) here.

    Cheers,

    MC

  10. #1610
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    Mike, you use your tongue prettier than a twenty dollar whore
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

    ― Albert Einstein

  11. #1611
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel View Post
    Mike, you use your tongue prettier than a twenty dollar whore
    "S'more beans Mr. Taggart?"

  12. #1612
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    Standover height?

    So, this is a bit of a left turn, but that's what the internet is for right?

    I'm really intrigued by the Lunchmoney (or maybe a Lunchbox if I wimp out or are realistic) but the listed standover height on the XXL of 33 inches (which has my preferred TT length) correct? Current rides have standovers that are at 31 inches and 30.75 inches as a comparison. I didn't want to bother emailing Lenz and wasting their time yet with this one as I currently don't have the $$$ to pursue a new bike, and would have to be selling my current ride to fund a new frame, but is something that is rolling around in my mind.

    I promise I'm not trying to start (another) internet war over the various issues of standover... just thinking back on my own experiences and pretty confident that I wouldn't feel comfortable with that standover and my lack of skill considering the $$ that would be involved.

    For reference, my wife has a Small Leviathan that she absolutely loves (standover included--just hates catching her riding pants/shorts on the cable guides on the TT). Looks great, rides well and everything. Would love to start pursuing one myself, but that standover is banging away in the back of my mind...

  13. #1613
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    Quote Originally Posted by padrefan1982 View Post
    So, this is a bit of a left turn,
    Although he builds a lot of XXL's for himself and Zinn, I've personally never seen one so I have no idea on standover. Call Lenz and ask, then let us know what they say.

  14. #1614
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    Hello,
    I don't have time to read all posts here.
    Could someone help me and sum it up?
    I'm an enduro rider who rides about 3 or 4 event rides here in Germany a year and at least one or two a week, almost regardless of temperature, just not in the rain.
    Do I really need to look into getting one of these?
    Thanks!!!
    John
    I often start riding and cannot stop.

  15. #1615
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    Since you can't bothered to read it all, I'll save you not only time reading but also time shopping.

    Yes you need to buy one and I happen to have a Large one for sale.
    Tantrum incoming
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  16. #1616
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    Man, you guys ride some spensive bikes!!!
    o.O

    That's all too rich for me.
    I'll have to stick to my ol' Spicy.

    "Carry on!"
    I often start riding and cannot stop.

  17. #1617
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iksobarg View Post
    Man, you guys ride some spensive bikes!!!
    o.O

    That's all too rich for me.
    I'll have to stick to my ol' Spicy.

    "Carry on!"
    How can you put a price on perfection? These bikes have been sprinkled with magic fairy dust.

  18. #1618
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29Inches View Post
    How can you put a price on perfection? These bikes have been sprinkled with magic fairy dust.
    Your douchebaggery is at once limitless and completely uncreative.

    Get a life. Go buy one if you must.

  19. #1619
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Your douchebaggery is at once limitless and completely uncreative.

    Get a life. Go buy one if you must.
    Mikey quit taking yourself so seriously.

    You must be fun at parties

  20. #1620
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iksobarg View Post
    Man, you guys ride some spensive bikes!!!
    Personally I think the Lenz frames are priced really well. Right in the same ballpark as mass produced smaller brands like Knolly for example. But you get a semi-custom frame you can tweak to some degree to better meet your needs made in the US.

    If you then buy a whole bunch of bling parts to hang off it you'll get a really expensive bike, but that part is optional.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  21. #1621
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29Inches View Post
    Mikey quit taking yourself so seriously.

    You must be fun at parties
    You are being incredibly lame.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  22. #1622
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    I've ridden a Lentz, and it's one of the best technical climbers I have been on, a climb swith may be wanted for long fire roads. But bikes that are good on these have compromise else where.

  23. #1623
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    I'm not going to pour any more gas on the fire...BUT I will finally be riding the Lunchbox at the Lunch Loops this coming weekend - as it's namesake would require. I don't "Go Pro" but we'll try and get a few pics of the bike in its element - should be fun.

  24. #1624
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Rock View Post
    I'm not going to pour any more gas on the fire...BUT I will finally be riding the Lunchbox at the Lunch Loops this coming weekend - as it's namesake would require. I don't "Go Pro" but we'll try and get a few pics of the bike in its element - should be fun.
    You should take a lesson from some of the d-bags in this thread: skip the ride and just opine on mtbr all weekend instead. It's easier to speak from a position of authority when your head isn't all cloudy from riding bikes up and down chunky hills.

  25. #1625
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    ^^Ha, but how do you really feel Mike?

    Anyhow, despite this thread (and bike) being a couple years old now the bike still feels perfectly competent alongside its current peers. Big chunky rocks make you really appreciate the geometry and active suspension. Sub 30 lbs fully built out means it doesn't wear on you as the day goes on. I'm still tweaking my shock settings but it's been a great platform to grow my 'big boy line' riding skills on for sure.

    Didn't get to do as much of the lunch loops as originally intended, but we did goof off on horsethief for a bit. Could probably up the tire pressure in the front...

    The bike that started it all just got even better...-img_4213.jpg

  26. #1626
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    That tire pressure looks just fine to me.

  27. #1627
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    I think that was around ~10 psi at that point. Sidewall had a slight cut and was slowly leaking throughout the day. First time pinging a rim off of a rock during a move like that, felt pretty interesting.

    Also, the drop in for that trail is something I would love to learn to ride but holy hell is it more intense than the videos look, namely the bottom half.

  28. #1628
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Rock View Post
    I think that was around ~10 psi at that point. Sidewall had a slight cut and was slowly leaking throughout the day. First time pinging a rim off of a rock during a move like that, felt pretty interesting.

    Also, the drop in for that trail is something I would love to learn to ride but holy hell is it more intense than the videos look, namely the bottom half.

    The initial drop in -- off of Mary's loop? (linked below)

    Or the lower bits of the one you're on in that pic?

    They ride about the same, I think. The one off of Mary's is more straightforward, mentally speaking. Both require more commitment than skill IMO.



  29. #1629
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    The Lenz pimp at it again....nothing to see...move along

  30. #1630
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29Inches View Post
    The Lenz pimp at it again....nothing to see...move along
    Why are you being such a tool. This is a thread about Lenz bikes. Are you that thick that it shocks you people are going to be talking about them positively here and sharing info???

    Why does that get you so butt hurt you have to jump in every few days and act like a jack ass?
    Last edited by vikb; 2 Weeks Ago at 11:03 AM.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  31. #1631
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Why are you being such a tool. This is a thread about Lenz bikes. Are you that thick that it shocks you people are going to talking about them positively here and sharing info???

    Why does that get you so butt hurt you have to jump in every few days and act like a jack ass?
    Some people just like being internet trolls. You know the kids that got picked on a lot in school but never had the balls to stand up to the bullies. The internet is perfect for them, now they can be real cool talking shit hiding behind a screen.
    Tantrum incoming
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  32. #1632
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Why are you being such a tool. This is a thread about Lenz bikes. Are you that thick that it shocks you people are going to talking about them positively here and sharing info???

    Why does that get you so butt hurt you have to jump in every few days and act like a jack ass?
    Funny stuff...

  33. #1633
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    The initial drop in -- off of Mary's loop? (linked below)

    Or the lower bits of the one you're on in that pic?

    They ride about the same, I think. The one off of Mary's is more straightforward, mentally speaking. Both require more commitment than skill IMO.


    Yep, that part of the initial drop in off of Mary's. It may just be commitment and letting the bike roll its way down, but that's still a learned skill in my opinion. Or at least it's something I haven't trained my brain to allow to happen yet. Next time we go I'll allow a window to session that area, that line in the vid looks smooth(er).

  34. #1634
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Rock View Post
    Yep, that part of the initial drop in off of Mary's. It may just be commitment and letting the bike roll its way down, but that's still a learned skill in my opinion. Or at least it's something I haven't trained my brain to allow to happen yet. Next time we go I'll allow a window to session that area, that line in the vid looks smooth(er).
    it was pretty smooth that day. people will occasionally build ramps or chocks (aka "cheaters") into some of the worst holes in the line. they usually don't last long, and are almost always in a 'house of cards' condition -- ready to crumble and fall with a breath of wind. check 'em before you trust 'em.

    wx conditions make a big difference. if you get there the day after a rain, and not too many people have been up/down it yet, the rock will be clean(er) and you won't have sand and dust causing your tires to slip.

    if it hasn't rained in awhile it's a lot harder, as there is a fine film of dust on everything that removes a lot of traction.

    for some people, none of the above make any difference. i shot the video below of a buddy that hadn't been there in months, was on a brand-new-that-day bike (original short stay LunchBox circa 2008) and didn't bother to walk down and take a look. his 'style' of just letting off the brakes and committing works well for him. i don't have the confidence to even begin to try it that way.



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